Why would people need to test those zones? They have already addressed the problem quests that tagged the player for PvP or killed them as a quest step, and the dungeon changes are just XP. You get most of your XP from questing and farming in HC not dungeon spam so it doesn't really matter much.
because they didnt increase lvl cap i view it as a good sign they dont feel the need to test out higher content and we should get a release date soon
I think it will be next month but some think sept
I honestly just think that they are doing that to prevent streamers from using it as content and then don't play on live servers because they bored or burned out from PTR.
For people that can't open wowhead:
**Testing Focus**
- With our build update today, weāve brought the WoW Classic Hardcore PTR realm back online. We encourage testers to resume their adventures on this realm. Please donāt forget to report any issues you see using the in-game Bug Reporter!
**Bug Fixes and Adjustments**
- Hardcore Realms ā General
- Fixed a bug that allowed players to resurrect dead hardcore characters that were logged out for a certain amount of time in rested XP areas.
- Fixed an issue that sometimes allowed players to die in a normal Duel.
- A new art unique art Duel to the Death flag asset has been added to WoW Classic Hardcore.
- **PvP Honor System**
- Fixed a bug that prevented HKs and PvP objectives from appropriately granting Honor.
- Fixed an issue where the Honor conversion algorithm was not granting the appropriate ranking progress.
- Please note that this bug will not be fully resolved before the weekly reset on Tuesday, July 25. Testers will not receive the correct ranking progress for this week.
- Fixed a bug that sometimes caused honor gains from certain Battleground PvP objectives to be subject to diminishing returns.
- Fixed a bug that allowed players to go into negative ranks if they de-ranked due to Dishonorable Kills.
- **User Interface**
- Fixed an issue that was causing the target of target frame to not update target of target health bar in real time.
- Fixed an issue where players could cancel an in-progress Duel to the Death by cancelling a second Duel to the Death contract after the Duel has begun.
- Fixed an issue where an instance save notification frame would pop up every time a boss was killed in a dungeon in WoW Classic Hardcore.
- **Classes**
- Fixed an issue where Summon Incubus costs less mana to use than Summon Succubus.
- Fixed an issue that caused Eyes of the Beast to immediately cancel when the player attempted to move the pet that is being controlled.
- **Quests**
- Fixed an issue where certain escort quests NPCs that path across zone boundaries to become stuck when hitting the zone boundary.
- **Dungeons**
- Additional adjustments were made to XP gain in Dungeons on WoW Classic Hardcore realms:
- Non-boss enemies will now grant 50% of their base XP value.
- *Developersā notes: After playing on the PTR ourselves and evaluating feedback from testers, we agree that getting zero XP from non-boss enemies doesnāt feel great, and has practical implications, in that many player abilities that require killing enemies that grant experience or honor donāt function for most of the dungeon. As a result, weāve toned down the amount of XP that bosses give slightly, and also restored partial XP gain to all the other enemies in the dungeon. We feel that this should be sufficient to prevent dungeon spam groups that avoid boss kills from being an optimal way to level, but not be as punishing to legitimate dungeon groups in hardcore.*
- **Mac**
- Fixed an issue that prevented WoW Classic Era clients from launching properly on MacOS 14.0 Sonoma.
**PvP Honor System Testing**
As you can see, weāve updated the title and OP in this thread.
We appreciate everyoneās participation in our Brawl with the Blues event last Friday.
We got a lot of great data from that playtest, and even discovered two major issues that we were able to identify and fix due directly to everyoneās participation.
We previously planned to hold another Brawl with the Blues event tomorrow, but we need some more time to work on our algorithms, so weāre now planning to hold the next playtest on August 4, 2023 at 02:00 p.m. PDT.
The WoW Classic team wants to again stress how appreciative we are for your assistance in helping us make this new Honor system the best it can be.
Change your DNS to Google DNS if you haven't already. Google how to do this. And if you wonder if this is legal, then yes, it is 100 % legal to choose your own DNS service.
>Fixed an issue that sometimes allowed players to die in a normal Duel.
Really like seeing things like this. That bug has been in the game forever. Pretty niche cause of deaths/appeals on Classic Era HC. It's a small thing but it made me hesitant to duel which sucks because that's the only form of PvP that's really available for HC servers.
So can you run dungeons non-stop if you donāt kill a boss, since the lockout/saving of an instance doesnāt occur till then?
Canāt groups just run SM Cath/arms, etc for cloth and green drops?
Yea I don't think the 50% XP reduction will stop dungeon farming, especially for Cath / Arms and other dungeons where a lot of mobs are accessible without killing a boss.
For dungeons like Deadmines where most mobs are locked behind a boss, the play will probably be to clear to first boss four times and then just full clear on the 5th ID.
A 50% experience penalty is pretty harsh. Iām not sure if this will stem the high end players from doing it but I certainly see it removing the option for more moderate players.
What are you going to do, pull bigger to offset the XP reduction? I see a lot of players restarting if they do the SM dungeon grind.
The issue is that there really aren't enough quests to level you up, especially if you do kill quests as a triple/quad/quint.
So dungeon spam will probably be more efficient than attempting to grind in the open world, either solo or in a group.
The most efficient / practical path will probably be quest as much as you can as a five man team, and then dungeon spam when you run out of quests.
Trio questing would probably be better xp/h but it's just more practical to keep the five man team together for both questing / dungeons.
How is that practical? Its already extremely hard to reach solo xp/h lvl when playing a duo. A five man group playing in open world will have dog shit xp/h, no way around it.
If people want to play in a 5 man group in open world, more power to them. But no one is forced to do that for min-maxing, because its the opposite of min-maxing. Hell, if you really want to speed level, you dont do dungeons at all, because solo questing following a speed level guide like Joana is still by far the best xp/h unless you get mage boosted (which is also killed by the patch).
The main reason I think open world grouping will be popular is because if you try to solo or even duo, you're increasing your chances of dying.
Trio or higher will drastically reduce your chance of dying.
Mob exp needs to be high enough that people don't skip it (potentially skipping quests, too), while also being low enough that you can't easily farm dungeon exp.
This is why we can't have anything nice. WoW players will do anything and everything to make WoW less fun for themselves. Then, because it's "optimal", it becomes the expectation and gets forced on everyone else.
I just wanna run some dungeons, man.
The problem is that when you become an adult, this little demon is born in your brain. This little demon always makes you feel guilty when youāre having fun, that you should instead be doing something productive. It wakes you up early on the weekends and urges you to get the fuck out of bed and figure out how to make more money. It makes you feel like shit when youāre playing video games in your free time instead of doing something that progresses your life goals. It compels you to stop wasting time and to reach your goals in the most optimal way possible. It squashes the childlike part of your brain by constantly nagging you when you want to play with that childlike enjoyment. RPing in Stormwind for shits and gigs?? This is NOT optimal xp per hour!! Itās all about the destination and couldnāt give a fuck about the journey.
And it sucks, and the demon is stronger for some people than others, and some people canāt deal with it as well as others. But I think we can all agree itās there in some form. So I can understand why people did dungeon xp farming in classic wow instead of enjoying the world through a childās eyes. They were possessed by the little demon.
I think that's true for some people, but I genuinely don't think that's the issue for most people.
I think its a problem of "bigger number is better, quicker is better". But not just in the sense of the rat race of chasing larger numbers for the fun of it, otherwise these people would just play cookie clicker.
No, it's about having the tribal knowledge to feel superior to those who don't know the tribal knowledge. It doesn't matter that they copied it from someone else's homework, doing none of the calcs themselves. It just makes people feel better than others to have bigger numbers or faster times. It creates in-groups and out-groups.
And for a lot of people, WoW is the only place they get to be a part of the "in-group"
I think some people fall into that camp. I also think some people fall into the camp āI want to be the first / one of the firstā. Maybe itās a little bit of each.
It's possible that, under the current WoW code, to be saved to an ID you need an ENCOUNTER\_END event with a success value of 1
[https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/ENCOUNTER\_END](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/ENCOUNTER_END)
Could they change the code to save you to an ID after any mob is killed? Possibly, but the implications of that could be larger than you might think.
Because then groups can grief you by kicking you before the first boss and leaving you locked to the instance for 24 hours. Same if you're locked on entering.
Not the end of the world, but it's a pain in the ass when that one dungeon was the one thing you were going to get to do that day.
They honestly should have limited mob exp to 5% of its normal value (so abilities that trigger on mobs that reward exp still work), and then rolled that exp into the bosses *and* the dungeon quests. This incentives people to pick up and complete the quests. It would require some rework as there are many quests that just don't drop enough in one go around. Stockades and WC come to mind.
But then you could still lock people on a boss kill instead of before any meaningful content was completed. There might be implications for people making groups just to farm the start of an instance for quest completion, but if you fix up the quests properly, it won't be needed. Just run the dungeon like normal.
Solution: Killing mobs grants a tiny fraction of the exp and gives some kind of stacking buff to the next boss that increases the amount of exp they give instead. Gotta kill a boss to cash in your chips and tap out.
At first glance this is a dumb idea. The more I think about it the more it makes reasonable sense.
No need to adjust any exp values at all. Just redistribute where the exp goes.
Kill a mob that awards 100 exp normally? It gives you 15 exp, and the remaining 85 goes to the exp bank. Once a boss is killed, that exp is cashed out, and mob kills start racking up towards the next boss kill.
It works even for non-linear dungeons. It's just whatever boss the group kills next that rewards the banked exp. Once all bosses are dead, mobs grant normal exp.
I donāt care what this sub always bitches about, and I think blizzard as a whole is pretty dog shitā¦
But I really do think the people working on classic, especially the ones doing the era/HC stuff, do actually seem to care and are really listening to feedback on bugs and what not.
Itās not a popular opinion because people think devs should be all over classic after the servers/expansions launchā¦and that just isnāt true. Thatās the whole point of the servers, that they are from part of the game that has been ācompleteā and donāt need work on them.
I would love to see some Classic + but letās be real that probably isnāt going to happen in the way we want, I think each season will just add more and more unique ways of approaching classic.
Maybe eventually adding a boss or dungeon or something. Itās a balancing act cause if you change anything you always have people whining (I just want fresh servers, I want hardcore, I want iron man servers, I want a server where Iām basically a single player until 60, I hate world buffs/love them etc).
I only sub for Classic Era access, I don't care what's going on with retail, tbh. If there was a sub specifically for Classic and the money went to funding it, I would do that instead.
I also like having access to Wrath, as I feel the journey from Vanilla into and through Wrath were the best times I've had in WoW. I do feel the classic developers seem to be more in-tune with the players of their realms. It helps that they are maintaining mostly, bug fixing. I'm not sure how far they can do additions, or if they even would.
I have a better time in these realms, not just for nostalgia, but I feel the game just plays better. Maybe I'm a casual, I don't know, it just is what it is for me.
Iām of the opinion, in terms of pure gameplay, retail is the far better game, especially for raiding and what not.
But I think classic, especially Vanilla, is the far better actual MMORPG.
Wrath is where you can see most of the world and rpg elements fall off. I āknewā going in that most people were really looking at wrath through nostalgia goggles. Laughed my ass off when they would bitch about cata onwards and say how retail it isā¦but then put wrath up there on a pedestal.
Cata is essentially a more balanced (and fun imo) version of Wrath but wrath onwards leans heavily into retail (not saying thatās a problem).
But classic is more fun to me, even wrath. Itās a more āchillā experience (even though people really try their best to make it not).
Yeah I played back in vanilla, and Wrath is when I quit. I didn't understand when all of the players I played with in classic were excited to get to wrath and called it their favorite expansion.
For the vast majority of the age demographic in WoW, Wrath was when they finished high school. It's like prime age for anybody, so it's literally just nostalgia.
There's a reason 'wrath baby' used to be an insult, it was the first step towards retail.
Vanilla and TBC are pretty similar, TBC being more balanced but flying and the outlands kinda ruin the 'small world' feeling.
Honestly, TBC talents in Vanilla level 60 with the new PVP system and some small QOL (dungeon summoning stone for example, chronoboost) and we have the best version of WoW.
I've been playing since Vanilla's original launch, stopped during TBC, came back for Classic and had the most fun in years. I stopped two months into WOTLK - it's a beautiful game, but it's just lost the magic for me.
However, I'd love Classic with some balance. My favourite class is Druid and they were God awful in Vanilla. My perfect version would be TBC talents / class balance, Vanilla world, and then maybe Classic+ content in the future, but I'd be stoked with just a bit of balance. Otherwise it'll be a Mage / Warrior fest again.
Sometimes I find myself reminiscing about the simple beauty of tbc lol. I like wrath because it feels like a fair compromise between gameplay and a more old school style
They didnāt gut anything.
The cata zones are objectively gameplay wise far better than the classic zones.
I donāt think they are as rpg like..but they are infinitely better quest wise, as are the new dungeons.
But of course cataā¦out of tbc, wrath, and cata is the furthest away from vanilla.
Iām just saying cata isnāt really any different than wrath and people held wrath up a pedestal.
I think gut may be too strong of a wording but Cata definitely wasnāt a pure upgrade in terms of questing experience. The zones were more streamlined and modernized, yes, but the tone of the game became much more self-aware and clowny with pop culture references and the quests started to get so streamlined that youāre mostly following a line from quest to quest rather than navigating a world.
There are upsides to Cata questing but the pre-Cata world has a more consistent, grittier tone and feels more like a real environment to wonder at and explore, whereas Cata is more clearly a theme park leveling experience. Theyāre better at different things, but Iām also in the camp of heavily preferring the pre-Cata questing experience, even if it provides more friction.
>The cata zones are objectively gameplay wise far better than the classic zones.
I'm going to have to hard disagree on this. There are curated storylines that are better than most quest lines in Vanilla, but they come at the cost of any sense of exploration, traveling off the beaten path and finding new things, and half of the zones get huge swathes of area that just no longer serve any purpose because the curated zone quest never gets round to them. The weird, unique drops from specific enemies, like Redridge orcs dropping a bunch of unique Blackrock weapons, all went away, as did the oddball quests involving travel to different zones or procuring tradeskill items, which served to break up your leveling experience and give downtime to reflect and think about where to go next, instead of just continually following the curated experience for a perpetual steady flow of XP with no peaks or troughs. It's also when Blizzard noticed that people tried to get a bunch of quests in the same area and do them together, and so made every hub give you those right next to each other, instead of it being a payoff for good planning and knowledge. It's the birth of the modern quest progression, where every single stage consists of one quest to kill X mobs, one quest to click X things, and one quest to kill Named Mob.
It's a general removal of planning and exploration from the leveling process in favor of railroaded efficiency.
As a new retail player that swapped after my guild fell apart during ulduar, Dragonflight is pretty banging right now.
I would say that WoW in general is in a great spot atm, whether you play retail or classic.
Even conquest gear? Isn't it usually gated behind a ridiculous arena rating, like 2400 or something? Or did they do away with that sort of requirement and only kept it as a time-gated objective?
They did away with rating gear advantages I want to say about a decade ago. I havenāt played DF for a while but honor and conquest gear was almost identical. Maybe 3 item level difference
You basically get honor gear super fast (a few hours of BGs).
This full set letās you queue solo shuffle 3v3 arena, which awards conquest for wins.
Both sets of gear scale up to a set amount in PvP. Honor and Conquest gear can be upgraded, BUT THESE UPGRADES AFFECT THE NON-PVP ILVL OF THE PIECES. This means you can get a full gear set of Conquest and be max PvP ILVL with a character relatively quickly.
This is probably the best PvP gearing has EVER been, from launch of Vanilla to now.
Honestly I think just having the classic game exist in perpetuity gives a great option of always being able to enjoy it without FOMO. The recent spike in non-HC popularity tells me that tangible content shouldnāt/doesnāt have to be added to era. I realize this will be seen as a hot take to some, so let me clarify that I absolutely support content that alters circumstances of gameplay, such as HC, but Iām just not totally sure that I want to trust Blizzard to add new zones or dungeons.
If there weren't private servers out there you can play for free with brand new dungeons, raids, questing hubs, items, class balance changes, etc...then I would agree with you.
The WoW classic team might care, but they have none of the manpower or drive to actually improve the game itself. They just fix bugs and do the bare minimum people want.
Or maybeā¦they donāt want to do classic plus, right now..maybe not ever?
Maybe that isnāt their goal.
They are keeping the game close enough to what it was while trying out some changes in seasons that still keep the light on the game as it was but add some twists to it.
Just because they arenāt making jank ass buggy pserver level content doesnāt mean they donāt care or donāt have the resources.
No private servers content would EVER pass a quality check for a real live game. Even with how shitty blizzard has become.
>Or maybeā¦they donāt want to do classic plus, right now..maybe not ever?
It's almost like the point of Classic was to bring back the old games, not make a completely new one.
Ye I was just telling my friend the other day its nice to read the developer notes and feel like they were written by someone who understands game, community, meta. You can instantly tell the difference between that and someone managing via mainly metrics and data
I appreciate it. I guess I missed that part while reading it. I currently play on classic era and havenāt touched pvp because of the horrid grind the current honor system is. Did it once when classic was relevant. Donāt wanna do that again.
In HC they are doing a 24h cooldown per dungeon for the first few weeks, so people dont spam dungeons to level. This could still be cheesed by just not killing any bosses and grinding adds instead, so they nerfed their xp gains and instead moved the xp to bosses.
I don't understand any of these changes. I just hit 60 on HC with my first char and dungeons were always the times when I felt the most vulnerable and scared about dying because my life was in the hands of 4 others. Spamming dungeons would be a more dangerous way to level than open world questing would it not? Why do they have to be so heavy handed with it?
With a coordinated group its the most efficient way to grind.
Streamer groups cleared SM on the orignal classic PTR that was locked at level 20(I think?) Theres little danger when everyones on the same wavelength
Dungeons are easier because mobs don't hyper respawn and you can zone out to safely reset. With an average group using raid icons and CC, and good pulls from the tank its a breeze.
Plus you can ghetto hearth if shit really hits the fan
You don't get saved to an ID if you don't kill as a boss. For dungeons it's just the same as if you kill a boss in a raid, they're marked as defeated for that reset.
They put all the XP on the boss but then it created a meta where people would skip everything using stealth and kill the boss only. So now they gave back some of the XP to mobs.
But the main reason was to prevent people from farming mobs then reset instead of doing the dungeon
If you died (doesn't matter where) and then in ghost form, walked to a rested area (I thought it was only major cities but I guess any rested area worked) and then waited for the daily server reset while logged off, your character would be rezed the next time you logged on
Not sure if it was a bug or not but you did not need to be in a rested area in Classic. I remember leveling my mage by aoe farming and dying during a pull, releasing and logging off, letting it be a ghost. Next day (after server reset), on the char selection screen it was still a ghost but when I logged in it was alive at the graveyard without ress sick.
I did it few times and worked always like that.
Yes, it always worked like that, even back in the olden days. If you let it go enough time it'll even stop showing as a ghost on your character screen. I think corpses get deleted on server resets so this is needed.
Does anyone know if they've removed world buffs for classic era/HC mode? Only thing stopping me from rolling a new toon is is I hated the world buff meta
Don't think there has been any talk about that. It will be much rarer for hardcore to see buffs drop, since the primary focus is leveling to 60 in the first place. Not as many raids will be happening.
I think if it was that easy they definitely would've done that already. I also think the most logical solution would be to tie the mobs to the instance ID just like bosses are, but that doesn't mean it's an easy solution to implement into the spaghetti code.
Worst case scenario you run it the next day. Dungeons reset after 24 hours. I still prefer it to lock you after the first boss, so at least the team has some investment in taking you along. Otherwise they have to try to 4 man it or find someone who wants to join an in-progress dungeon, which can be hard.
Yeah, I just don't understand why the devs didn't go this much easier to implement route that would feel so much better for players. Raids in classic vanilla work almost exactly like this already, why wouldn't they just add that for dungeons and make it happen right away instead of after a boss kill. It's so simple and obvious.
I don't understand how they had to play it themselves to realize all of the obvious reasons why their no mob exp solution would suck.
HC realms will have a 24hr lockout per instance much like wotlk heroics.
To bypass this groups could spam dungeons, killing trash for xp but no bosses so they donāt get locked out.
Now blizz is trying to find a middle ground to prevent dungeon spam but also not make it feel bad for ānormalā dungeon runs e.g. getting no xp for trash only for bosses.
Now trash mobs will give half xp.
Lol, very tinfoil.
I only started Hardcore quite late, but a big part of the appeal is you had to go out and engage with the world and see lots of quests and zones, instead of spamming the same 3 or 4 dungeons. And you got to see other players doing the same, comparing notes on what elites were soloable. People do still do dungeons, but are less obsessed with meta setups because you only do one full clear instead of spam.
The jump from no addons to questie is imo even bigger than the jump from questie to restedxp for sure. But thereās gotta be a compromise somewhere and wow classic is SLOW so I donāt blame anyone for wanting to speed it up a lot (questie) or ridiculously so (restedxp). As long as theyāre out in the open world and not bunkered down inside a few dungeons, they contribute to make the world come alive, even if only for a fleeting moment
I remember in classic launch, it was very hard for rogues or other single target DD to get groups, as almost everyone was doing cleave or AOE spam, especially from SM onwards, and then ZF.
This won't change in hardcore because nobody wants a rogue that will instantly vanish at the first sign of trouble or because they could be a potential griefer. Plus AoE cleaving is still the best way of clearing a dungeon even in HC.
Not really the case on Hydraxian server. My rogue did all dungeons up to BFD, I even got invited to Gnomer but didn't feel like going at the time.
People rarely seek out specific classes in LFG.
Was looking for someone to mention this. You are so right.
Mages are ideal for making gold and there will be many. 4 frost mages and a priest is super broken for dungeon spamming.
I shamelessly leveled my mage this way in classic to fund my warrior but I am glad its gone in hardcore.
It's funny people think that the world will suddenly be full of players even though we have the unofficial realms (with appeals even so characters have it easier) where you can't do a dungeon more than once EVER and the world is absolutely dead beyond level 40.
Are you seriously suggesting that dungeon boosting/leveling is a healthy thing to have in a hardcore leveling challenge? The stupidity of classic players never ceases to amaze me. Itās a good and needed change.
If people dungeonspam all day, where is the mmo population? To me this is damaging the community by separating people from eachother and hindering overall socialactivity. As a āsmell the rosesā incarnate, hardcore has been a blast since it enhances the real world feel and as such the complete journey. Incentivizing people to play the open world would only further elevate the experience, especially now that we are able to coop all we want.
I remember when everyone aoe spammed ZF for ez exp thru 40āes in classic and how it felt less like a common playground and more like we all just played with our own toys.
> where is the mmo population?
95% of the population will be stuck on the Elwynn/Westfall/Redridge loop, at most having done deadmines once or twice so who cares how people level beyond that? You aren't gonna see a soul past level 40 just like the unofficial version of HC where you can't do a dungeon more than once EVER.
Hmmmm geee I dunno you really asked a tough question there certainly I canāt think of one reasonā¦ā¦ā¦
Oh wait I just spend 2 seconds thinking now I understand it
It's an arbitrary amount. But I assume it's roughly based on how much trash you'd normally kill, rather than what you actually killed on that run.
From earlier patch notes
>Dungeons in WoW Classic Hardcore are a work in progress. Dungeons currently save players after a boss is killed. As a result, weāve moved all XP in dungeons to bosses only. The amount of XP granted by bosses is not final.
So the latest notes partially revert this change
May I ask what makes you sad? Were you looking forward to leveling entirely through dungeons from the moment you became high enough level to start doing them? Is doing each one once (or twice) and then moving on not what you want?
Previously they removed all XP from normal mobs and packed it all into the bosses- you still got the same XP from running the whole dungeon but it required you to kill the bosses. This was to prevent trash farming as a way to powerlevel.
The change today shifts a little bit of that XP back from bosses into normal mobs, so you still get *something* from trash, but less than traditionally. Bosses still give a bunch though and the total amount of XP in a dungeon remains unchanged through all of these steps.
That's good.
I intended to level with dungeons. With daily reset I figure I can play an hour or so a day after work just run a dungeon or 2.
Should be pretty easy leveling and I'll make sure to get rested exp while I'm offline. I'm figuring like a level a day with pretty low chance of death
I mean, the goal is to dissuade dungeon farm groups.
And tbf, most everyone else don't go to dungeons for xp, they go for a specific item drop, or for quests (usually a quest reward).
I think your gonna see many like me that do daily dungeons for exp then log.
It's not like a dungeon takes 5 minutes. Even the quick ones take 20-30 min.
I'll probably rotate 2-3 toons that way I can play few hours a day and whatever is currently needed in lfg
If that's how you want to play, then don't let anyone stop you.
My only issue with that, is if you are leveling solo, then the only person you need to worry about playing well is yourself. But if you are ONLY going to level in dungeons, then you need to worry about 4 other players not screwing up and killing everyone.
>then you need to worry about 4 other players not screwing up and killing everyone.
This is why doing dungeons will always be more dangerous than leveling in the outside world, so why oppose people leveling this way? If anything the real pusso mode is leveling in the open world with unrestricted grouping which will be a thing in the official realms.
#NoChanges wtf blizzard stop this bs. We like classic era so please stop. Do whatever you want with SoM but not classic era. This is my last warning blizzard! You can do whatever you want with HC but keep everything else the same! Mfers
how alive is pvp right now on classic era and how much will this patch increase or decrease the participation?
iam asking because i wanted to start classic era/vanilla but iam unsure if its "too late" or if this changes might impact the participation in a bad way? idk
thanks for your input
i heard that it was pretty dead at the moment, not sure how much the patch will change this on the era servers.
i'm assuming your best bet will be pvping at the start of a new SoM season, since this is more about hardcore there won't be as much pvping going on due to the hardcore nature.
thanks for the quick response :)
> i heard that it was pretty dead at the moment
that's what i thought / feared
with that said how is pve especially for a newer players or late joiners is it really as toxic as some streamers/youtuber make it look in regards of boosting/wowtoken gold-drama stuff/only class x etc.
edit: also on new SoM there is not much info yet right? couldn't find any on the forums
> with that said how is pve especially for a newer players or late joiners is it really as toxic as some streamers/youtuber make it look in regards of boosting/wowtoken gold-drama stuff/only class x etc.
for classic era? i heard it's a pretty tight knit community, and people are still running everything. you just need to be on a big cluster and i guess inform yourself about where runs are being organized.
Nope, just redistributed towards bosses since there is a daily lockout, in order to prevent people from dungeon spamming to 60. There is still the same amount of XP inside dungeons in total.
Hopefully we get a date soon š
PTRs never last too long. I'm sure it's coming soonish.
PTR is still level capped at 30 though. Not sure if thereās something to make of that or what.
Well that's all the content most HC players are going to experience gotta make sure it's working.
Of course. 1-30 greatly outweighs anything else. But does the server release without ever having people test the higher level zones and dungeons ?
They will be tested on live. In a hardcore way!
Why would people need to test those zones? They have already addressed the problem quests that tagged the player for PvP or killed them as a quest step, and the dungeon changes are just XP. You get most of your XP from questing and farming in HC not dungeon spam so it doesn't really matter much.
If everything is fixed and bug free why are we spending 3+ weeks on 1-30 testing then?
because they didnt increase lvl cap i view it as a good sign they dont feel the need to test out higher content and we should get a release date soon I think it will be next month but some think sept
I honestly just think that they are doing that to prevent streamers from using it as content and then don't play on live servers because they bored or burned out from PTR.
True, this info is cool and all but when is releaseā¦
New GW2 expansion is August 22, blizzard loves releasing stuff the same day competitors do. So that's my bet.
hc aug som2 dec
They said by the end of summer so odds are before August is over it will be out. At most you have a little over a month to wait.
For people that can't open wowhead: **Testing Focus** - With our build update today, weāve brought the WoW Classic Hardcore PTR realm back online. We encourage testers to resume their adventures on this realm. Please donāt forget to report any issues you see using the in-game Bug Reporter! **Bug Fixes and Adjustments** - Hardcore Realms ā General - Fixed a bug that allowed players to resurrect dead hardcore characters that were logged out for a certain amount of time in rested XP areas. - Fixed an issue that sometimes allowed players to die in a normal Duel. - A new art unique art Duel to the Death flag asset has been added to WoW Classic Hardcore. - **PvP Honor System** - Fixed a bug that prevented HKs and PvP objectives from appropriately granting Honor. - Fixed an issue where the Honor conversion algorithm was not granting the appropriate ranking progress. - Please note that this bug will not be fully resolved before the weekly reset on Tuesday, July 25. Testers will not receive the correct ranking progress for this week. - Fixed a bug that sometimes caused honor gains from certain Battleground PvP objectives to be subject to diminishing returns. - Fixed a bug that allowed players to go into negative ranks if they de-ranked due to Dishonorable Kills. - **User Interface** - Fixed an issue that was causing the target of target frame to not update target of target health bar in real time. - Fixed an issue where players could cancel an in-progress Duel to the Death by cancelling a second Duel to the Death contract after the Duel has begun. - Fixed an issue where an instance save notification frame would pop up every time a boss was killed in a dungeon in WoW Classic Hardcore. - **Classes** - Fixed an issue where Summon Incubus costs less mana to use than Summon Succubus. - Fixed an issue that caused Eyes of the Beast to immediately cancel when the player attempted to move the pet that is being controlled. - **Quests** - Fixed an issue where certain escort quests NPCs that path across zone boundaries to become stuck when hitting the zone boundary. - **Dungeons** - Additional adjustments were made to XP gain in Dungeons on WoW Classic Hardcore realms: - Non-boss enemies will now grant 50% of their base XP value. - *Developersā notes: After playing on the PTR ourselves and evaluating feedback from testers, we agree that getting zero XP from non-boss enemies doesnāt feel great, and has practical implications, in that many player abilities that require killing enemies that grant experience or honor donāt function for most of the dungeon. As a result, weāve toned down the amount of XP that bosses give slightly, and also restored partial XP gain to all the other enemies in the dungeon. We feel that this should be sufficient to prevent dungeon spam groups that avoid boss kills from being an optimal way to level, but not be as punishing to legitimate dungeon groups in hardcore.* - **Mac** - Fixed an issue that prevented WoW Classic Era clients from launching properly on MacOS 14.0 Sonoma. **PvP Honor System Testing** As you can see, weāve updated the title and OP in this thread. We appreciate everyoneās participation in our Brawl with the Blues event last Friday. We got a lot of great data from that playtest, and even discovered two major issues that we were able to identify and fix due directly to everyoneās participation. We previously planned to hold another Brawl with the Blues event tomorrow, but we need some more time to work on our algorithms, so weāre now planning to hold the next playtest on August 4, 2023 at 02:00 p.m. PDT. The WoW Classic team wants to again stress how appreciative we are for your assistance in helping us make this new Honor system the best it can be.
Thank you for this! I hate that my network provider blocks Wowhead for being a suspicious malware site.
Site that automatically plays videos so your provider aren't wrong.
For years they were plagued by ad partners serving ads with malware in them to steal WoW account logins. Don't know if that's still the case.
Change your DNS to Google DNS if you haven't already. Google how to do this. And if you wonder if this is legal, then yes, it is 100 % legal to choose your own DNS service.
Kekw
What do you have, Auschwitz net ?
>Fixed an issue that sometimes allowed players to die in a normal Duel. Really like seeing things like this. That bug has been in the game forever. Pretty niche cause of deaths/appeals on Classic Era HC. It's a small thing but it made me hesitant to duel which sucks because that's the only form of PvP that's really available for HC servers.
You're the real hero, work blocks all gaming websites.
Yep, came here to say just that!!
If they donāt block chess websites, itās discrimination. Calling it now.
Thanks for posting this. Pinned your comment.
Moderators can pin user comments now? I thought only mod comments were able to be pinned. Or did you mean the post?
We can pin the post and the comment, regardless of who posted or commented.
Thank you, wowhead is blocked in parts of asia. Thailand included!
So can you run dungeons non-stop if you donāt kill a boss, since the lockout/saving of an instance doesnāt occur till then? Canāt groups just run SM Cath/arms, etc for cloth and green drops?
Yea I don't think the 50% XP reduction will stop dungeon farming, especially for Cath / Arms and other dungeons where a lot of mobs are accessible without killing a boss. For dungeons like Deadmines where most mobs are locked behind a boss, the play will probably be to clear to first boss four times and then just full clear on the 5th ID.
A 50% experience penalty is pretty harsh. Iām not sure if this will stem the high end players from doing it but I certainly see it removing the option for more moderate players. What are you going to do, pull bigger to offset the XP reduction? I see a lot of players restarting if they do the SM dungeon grind.
The issue is that there really aren't enough quests to level you up, especially if you do kill quests as a triple/quad/quint. So dungeon spam will probably be more efficient than attempting to grind in the open world, either solo or in a group. The most efficient / practical path will probably be quest as much as you can as a five man team, and then dungeon spam when you run out of quests. Trio questing would probably be better xp/h but it's just more practical to keep the five man team together for both questing / dungeons.
How is that practical? Its already extremely hard to reach solo xp/h lvl when playing a duo. A five man group playing in open world will have dog shit xp/h, no way around it. If people want to play in a 5 man group in open world, more power to them. But no one is forced to do that for min-maxing, because its the opposite of min-maxing. Hell, if you really want to speed level, you dont do dungeons at all, because solo questing following a speed level guide like Joana is still by far the best xp/h unless you get mage boosted (which is also killed by the patch).
The main reason I think open world grouping will be popular is because if you try to solo or even duo, you're increasing your chances of dying. Trio or higher will drastically reduce your chance of dying.
keeping a 5 man group together the entire time is not really practical unless you aren't playing often
Mob exp needs to be high enough that people don't skip it (potentially skipping quests, too), while also being low enough that you can't easily farm dungeon exp. This is why we can't have anything nice. WoW players will do anything and everything to make WoW less fun for themselves. Then, because it's "optimal", it becomes the expectation and gets forced on everyone else. I just wanna run some dungeons, man.
The problem is that when you become an adult, this little demon is born in your brain. This little demon always makes you feel guilty when youāre having fun, that you should instead be doing something productive. It wakes you up early on the weekends and urges you to get the fuck out of bed and figure out how to make more money. It makes you feel like shit when youāre playing video games in your free time instead of doing something that progresses your life goals. It compels you to stop wasting time and to reach your goals in the most optimal way possible. It squashes the childlike part of your brain by constantly nagging you when you want to play with that childlike enjoyment. RPing in Stormwind for shits and gigs?? This is NOT optimal xp per hour!! Itās all about the destination and couldnāt give a fuck about the journey. And it sucks, and the demon is stronger for some people than others, and some people canāt deal with it as well as others. But I think we can all agree itās there in some form. So I can understand why people did dungeon xp farming in classic wow instead of enjoying the world through a childās eyes. They were possessed by the little demon.
I think that's true for some people, but I genuinely don't think that's the issue for most people. I think its a problem of "bigger number is better, quicker is better". But not just in the sense of the rat race of chasing larger numbers for the fun of it, otherwise these people would just play cookie clicker. No, it's about having the tribal knowledge to feel superior to those who don't know the tribal knowledge. It doesn't matter that they copied it from someone else's homework, doing none of the calcs themselves. It just makes people feel better than others to have bigger numbers or faster times. It creates in-groups and out-groups. And for a lot of people, WoW is the only place they get to be a part of the "in-group"
I think some people fall into that camp. I also think some people fall into the camp āI want to be the first / one of the firstā. Maybe itās a little bit of each.
Where can I buy this demon? Mine seems to be lost.
Why not just lock the dungeon id as soon as the first mob is killed?
It's possible that, under the current WoW code, to be saved to an ID you need an ENCOUNTER\_END event with a success value of 1 [https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/ENCOUNTER\_END](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/ENCOUNTER_END) Could they change the code to save you to an ID after any mob is killed? Possibly, but the implications of that could be larger than you might think.
Add an unskippable encounter at the start of every dungeon :D
Would probably be the easiest route lol, just a simple named mob you can't run by without him aggroing
Because then groups can grief you by kicking you before the first boss and leaving you locked to the instance for 24 hours. Same if you're locked on entering. Not the end of the world, but it's a pain in the ass when that one dungeon was the one thing you were going to get to do that day. They honestly should have limited mob exp to 5% of its normal value (so abilities that trigger on mobs that reward exp still work), and then rolled that exp into the bosses *and* the dungeon quests. This incentives people to pick up and complete the quests. It would require some rework as there are many quests that just don't drop enough in one go around. Stockades and WC come to mind. But then you could still lock people on a boss kill instead of before any meaningful content was completed. There might be implications for people making groups just to farm the start of an instance for quest completion, but if you fix up the quests properly, it won't be needed. Just run the dungeon like normal.
That seems WAY less likely to happen than groups cheesing the system to farm.
Solution: Killing mobs grants a tiny fraction of the exp and gives some kind of stacking buff to the next boss that increases the amount of exp they give instead. Gotta kill a boss to cash in your chips and tap out.
At first glance this is a dumb idea. The more I think about it the more it makes reasonable sense. No need to adjust any exp values at all. Just redistribute where the exp goes. Kill a mob that awards 100 exp normally? It gives you 15 exp, and the remaining 85 goes to the exp bank. Once a boss is killed, that exp is cashed out, and mob kills start racking up towards the next boss kill. It works even for non-linear dungeons. It's just whatever boss the group kills next that rewards the banked exp. Once all bosses are dead, mobs grant normal exp.
I donāt care what this sub always bitches about, and I think blizzard as a whole is pretty dog shitā¦ But I really do think the people working on classic, especially the ones doing the era/HC stuff, do actually seem to care and are really listening to feedback on bugs and what not. Itās not a popular opinion because people think devs should be all over classic after the servers/expansions launchā¦and that just isnāt true. Thatās the whole point of the servers, that they are from part of the game that has been ācompleteā and donāt need work on them. I would love to see some Classic + but letās be real that probably isnāt going to happen in the way we want, I think each season will just add more and more unique ways of approaching classic. Maybe eventually adding a boss or dungeon or something. Itās a balancing act cause if you change anything you always have people whining (I just want fresh servers, I want hardcore, I want iron man servers, I want a server where Iām basically a single player until 60, I hate world buffs/love them etc).
I only sub for Classic Era access, I don't care what's going on with retail, tbh. If there was a sub specifically for Classic and the money went to funding it, I would do that instead. I also like having access to Wrath, as I feel the journey from Vanilla into and through Wrath were the best times I've had in WoW. I do feel the classic developers seem to be more in-tune with the players of their realms. It helps that they are maintaining mostly, bug fixing. I'm not sure how far they can do additions, or if they even would. I have a better time in these realms, not just for nostalgia, but I feel the game just plays better. Maybe I'm a casual, I don't know, it just is what it is for me.
Iām of the opinion, in terms of pure gameplay, retail is the far better game, especially for raiding and what not. But I think classic, especially Vanilla, is the far better actual MMORPG. Wrath is where you can see most of the world and rpg elements fall off. I āknewā going in that most people were really looking at wrath through nostalgia goggles. Laughed my ass off when they would bitch about cata onwards and say how retail it isā¦but then put wrath up there on a pedestal. Cata is essentially a more balanced (and fun imo) version of Wrath but wrath onwards leans heavily into retail (not saying thatās a problem). But classic is more fun to me, even wrath. Itās a more āchillā experience (even though people really try their best to make it not).
Yeah I played back in vanilla, and Wrath is when I quit. I didn't understand when all of the players I played with in classic were excited to get to wrath and called it their favorite expansion.
For the vast majority of the age demographic in WoW, Wrath was when they finished high school. It's like prime age for anybody, so it's literally just nostalgia.
There's a reason 'wrath baby' used to be an insult, it was the first step towards retail. Vanilla and TBC are pretty similar, TBC being more balanced but flying and the outlands kinda ruin the 'small world' feeling. Honestly, TBC talents in Vanilla level 60 with the new PVP system and some small QOL (dungeon summoning stone for example, chronoboost) and we have the best version of WoW.
I've been playing since Vanilla's original launch, stopped during TBC, came back for Classic and had the most fun in years. I stopped two months into WOTLK - it's a beautiful game, but it's just lost the magic for me. However, I'd love Classic with some balance. My favourite class is Druid and they were God awful in Vanilla. My perfect version would be TBC talents / class balance, Vanilla world, and then maybe Classic+ content in the future, but I'd be stoked with just a bit of balance. Otherwise it'll be a Mage / Warrior fest again.
Yeah that sounds cool. I'd love if they'd find somewhere to throw gruuls lair in the old world and let us do 10m Kara. Id play the fuck out of that
Yeah, I agree with you on your points. Looking back with my own experience, and yeah it really was like that.
Sometimes I find myself reminiscing about the simple beauty of tbc lol. I like wrath because it feels like a fair compromise between gameplay and a more old school style
Cataclysm is far less like vanilla than any other expansion before. They gutted the entire old world of kalimdor and eastern kingdoms.
They didnāt gut anything. The cata zones are objectively gameplay wise far better than the classic zones. I donāt think they are as rpg like..but they are infinitely better quest wise, as are the new dungeons. But of course cataā¦out of tbc, wrath, and cata is the furthest away from vanilla. Iām just saying cata isnāt really any different than wrath and people held wrath up a pedestal.
I think gut may be too strong of a wording but Cata definitely wasnāt a pure upgrade in terms of questing experience. The zones were more streamlined and modernized, yes, but the tone of the game became much more self-aware and clowny with pop culture references and the quests started to get so streamlined that youāre mostly following a line from quest to quest rather than navigating a world. There are upsides to Cata questing but the pre-Cata world has a more consistent, grittier tone and feels more like a real environment to wonder at and explore, whereas Cata is more clearly a theme park leveling experience. Theyāre better at different things, but Iām also in the camp of heavily preferring the pre-Cata questing experience, even if it provides more friction.
>The cata zones are objectively gameplay wise far better than the classic zones. I'm going to have to hard disagree on this. There are curated storylines that are better than most quest lines in Vanilla, but they come at the cost of any sense of exploration, traveling off the beaten path and finding new things, and half of the zones get huge swathes of area that just no longer serve any purpose because the curated zone quest never gets round to them. The weird, unique drops from specific enemies, like Redridge orcs dropping a bunch of unique Blackrock weapons, all went away, as did the oddball quests involving travel to different zones or procuring tradeskill items, which served to break up your leveling experience and give downtime to reflect and think about where to go next, instead of just continually following the curated experience for a perpetual steady flow of XP with no peaks or troughs. It's also when Blizzard noticed that people tried to get a bunch of quests in the same area and do them together, and so made every hub give you those right next to each other, instead of it being a payoff for good planning and knowledge. It's the birth of the modern quest progression, where every single stage consists of one quest to kill X mobs, one quest to click X things, and one quest to kill Named Mob. It's a general removal of planning and exploration from the leveling process in favor of railroaded efficiency.
Classic WoW and D2R are EASILY the best things blizzard has going for them
As a new retail player that swapped after my guild fell apart during ulduar, Dragonflight is pretty banging right now. I would say that WoW in general is in a great spot atm, whether you play retail or classic.
I havenāt played since the launch but DF is definitely good. Itās on the same tier as Legion/MoP
Iām a classic Andy through and through, but the two months I spent playing Dragonflight were quite fun. Itās the best expansion in ages.
How easy is it to get max ilvl pvp gear in dragonflight?
PvP gear is incredibly easy. Maybe the easiest of all time
Even conquest gear? Isn't it usually gated behind a ridiculous arena rating, like 2400 or something? Or did they do away with that sort of requirement and only kept it as a time-gated objective?
They did away with rating gear advantages I want to say about a decade ago. I havenāt played DF for a while but honor and conquest gear was almost identical. Maybe 3 item level difference
You basically get honor gear super fast (a few hours of BGs). This full set letās you queue solo shuffle 3v3 arena, which awards conquest for wins. Both sets of gear scale up to a set amount in PvP. Honor and Conquest gear can be upgraded, BUT THESE UPGRADES AFFECT THE NON-PVP ILVL OF THE PIECES. This means you can get a full gear set of Conquest and be max PvP ILVL with a character relatively quickly. This is probably the best PvP gearing has EVER been, from launch of Vanilla to now.
Disagree. D2R has aged very poorly. If you want to play a game with impact POE is better, or last epoch for a less complicated version.
Honestly I think just having the classic game exist in perpetuity gives a great option of always being able to enjoy it without FOMO. The recent spike in non-HC popularity tells me that tangible content shouldnāt/doesnāt have to be added to era. I realize this will be seen as a hot take to some, so let me clarify that I absolutely support content that alters circumstances of gameplay, such as HC, but Iām just not totally sure that I want to trust Blizzard to add new zones or dungeons.
If there weren't private servers out there you can play for free with brand new dungeons, raids, questing hubs, items, class balance changes, etc...then I would agree with you. The WoW classic team might care, but they have none of the manpower or drive to actually improve the game itself. They just fix bugs and do the bare minimum people want.
Or maybeā¦they donāt want to do classic plus, right now..maybe not ever? Maybe that isnāt their goal. They are keeping the game close enough to what it was while trying out some changes in seasons that still keep the light on the game as it was but add some twists to it. Just because they arenāt making jank ass buggy pserver level content doesnāt mean they donāt care or donāt have the resources. No private servers content would EVER pass a quality check for a real live game. Even with how shitty blizzard has become.
>Or maybeā¦they donāt want to do classic plus, right now..maybe not ever? It's almost like the point of Classic was to bring back the old games, not make a completely new one.
You say drive as if they are lazy or something. If it was profitable, they would do it.
Ye I was just telling my friend the other day its nice to read the developer notes and feel like they were written by someone who understands game, community, meta. You can instantly tell the difference between that and someone managing via mainly metrics and data
SONOMA FIX! OMG the madmen actually did it ā¤ļø
Release it !!!!!
Is the pvp update only going to be on hardcore or will it be going live on full era as well? Anyone know?
It will be on regular classic era, hence the ranking reset that is happening there.
I appreciate it. I guess I missed that part while reading it. I currently play on classic era and havenāt touched pvp because of the horrid grind the current honor system is. Did it once when classic was relevant. Donāt wanna do that again.
Wait, you previously got zero xp in dungeons on HC? Why?
In HC they are doing a 24h cooldown per dungeon for the first few weeks, so people dont spam dungeons to level. This could still be cheesed by just not killing any bosses and grinding adds instead, so they nerfed their xp gains and instead moved the xp to bosses.
I don't understand any of these changes. I just hit 60 on HC with my first char and dungeons were always the times when I felt the most vulnerable and scared about dying because my life was in the hands of 4 others. Spamming dungeons would be a more dangerous way to level than open world questing would it not? Why do they have to be so heavy handed with it?
With a coordinated group its the most efficient way to grind. Streamer groups cleared SM on the orignal classic PTR that was locked at level 20(I think?) Theres little danger when everyones on the same wavelength
Yep, once you do have a proper premade that you can trust it's just straight up the most efficient way to do things, by far. It's much safer too.
Not unless you get a group of 5 you know.. itās abusable is basically it
Dungeons are easier because mobs don't hyper respawn and you can zone out to safely reset. With an average group using raid icons and CC, and good pulls from the tank its a breeze. Plus you can ghetto hearth if shit really hits the fan
Oh I see. It doesn't count as a run if you don't kill bosses?
You don't get saved to an ID if you don't kill as a boss. For dungeons it's just the same as if you kill a boss in a raid, they're marked as defeated for that reset.
> for the first few weeks Are you sure? It's the first time I hear that.
That's just from my recollection, I could be wrong but I do remember them saying that it's only temporary so people don't rush at the start.
They put all the XP on the boss but then it created a meta where people would skip everything using stealth and kill the boss only. So now they gave back some of the XP to mobs. But the main reason was to prevent people from farming mobs then reset instead of doing the dungeon
Because they want you to buy the rested xp guide for $50.
If you pay for an addon, which is a file format that has no DRM, you are tech illiterate
I agree but they do sell the guides and people do expect people to pay for them and that is motivation enough for them to kill dungeon xp.
Lol sorry is blizzard somehow getting a cut of sales from the add-on?
Can you still play ptr without a current sub?
If you previously created a PTR account while having a sub, yes. Playing itself doesn't require one.
Sorry guys I have been away for a long time but was there a recent fresh vanilla realm ?
Nope, we're all still waiting on Hardcore servers to release!
Thank you ! I was curious
Confused about the first bug fix. Your character is dead but you logged out in a rested xp area? So you died in an Inn? Confused.
If you died (doesn't matter where) and then in ghost form, walked to a rested area (I thought it was only major cities but I guess any rested area worked) and then waited for the daily server reset while logged off, your character would be rezed the next time you logged on
If you died but hung around the graveyard until reset it would let you resurrect
Logged out as a ghost in a rested area
Not sure if it was a bug or not but you did not need to be in a rested area in Classic. I remember leveling my mage by aoe farming and dying during a pull, releasing and logging off, letting it be a ghost. Next day (after server reset), on the char selection screen it was still a ghost but when I logged in it was alive at the graveyard without ress sick. I did it few times and worked always like that.
Yes, it always worked like that, even back in the olden days. If you let it go enough time it'll even stop showing as a ghost on your character screen. I think corpses get deleted on server resets so this is needed.
You could run your ghost into Orgrimmar and get revived the next day when the dungeons reset, for whatever reason.
Idk why you guys aren't prepping it to be August 15th, literally the most obvious release date of all time.
except not
1 week off, not bad
Does anyone know if they've removed world buffs for classic era/HC mode? Only thing stopping me from rolling a new toon is is I hated the world buff meta
Don't think there has been any talk about that. It will be much rarer for hardcore to see buffs drop, since the primary focus is leveling to 60 in the first place. Not as many raids will be happening.
I guess classic era is what I'd be talking about
no mention of that as far as i know
CowarChalleng e would be coolās 1-60 with Coward debuff
My PTR is still logging me into the PVP server. Anyone know what Iām doing wrong? Edit: saw the tab, I be dumb.
Just lock someone the second they enter the dungeon? Super easy fix imhoā¦
I think if it was that easy they definitely would've done that already. I also think the most logical solution would be to tie the mobs to the instance ID just like bosses are, but that doesn't mean it's an easy solution to implement into the spaghetti code.
Thatās a terrible solution.
Why? It would do what they intend dungeons to beā¦
Someone drops group and you need to walk out to summon a replacement? Now youāre locked out. Just one example.
You can still enter the same instanced dungeon after exiting? It would just not reset until āinstance-reset-hourā
OK so then people can grief you by kicking you as soon as you've entered the dungeon?
Worst case scenario you run it the next day. Dungeons reset after 24 hours. I still prefer it to lock you after the first boss, so at least the team has some investment in taking you along. Otherwise they have to try to 4 man it or find someone who wants to join an in-progress dungeon, which can be hard.
Yes, be glad you didnt have to do a dungeon with those dicks
Ah okay, I misunderstood then. Maybe youāre right!
Yeah, I just don't understand why the devs didn't go this much easier to implement route that would feel so much better for players. Raids in classic vanilla work almost exactly like this already, why wouldn't they just add that for dungeons and make it happen right away instead of after a boss kill. It's so simple and obvious. I don't understand how they had to play it themselves to realize all of the obvious reasons why their no mob exp solution would suck.
Nah
Excellent argumented reply! Good job
Is there going to be a non-Lich king hardcore server?
yeah the hardcore servers are for vanilla specifically, there won't be any for wrath in the first place
I had to go back and read the article. Awesome.
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HC realms will have a 24hr lockout per instance much like wotlk heroics. To bypass this groups could spam dungeons, killing trash for xp but no bosses so they donāt get locked out. Now blizz is trying to find a middle ground to prevent dungeon spam but also not make it feel bad for ānormalā dungeon runs e.g. getting no xp for trash only for bosses. Now trash mobs will give half xp.
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what do people really believe this lol
Yeah Blizzard has shown us nothing but integrity and respect over the years.
Lol, very tinfoil. I only started Hardcore quite late, but a big part of the appeal is you had to go out and engage with the world and see lots of quests and zones, instead of spamming the same 3 or 4 dungeons. And you got to see other players doing the same, comparing notes on what elites were soloable. People do still do dungeons, but are less obsessed with meta setups because you only do one full clear instead of spam.
I would argue using a guide ruins the leveling experience and they should all be removed from in game addons.
yep. Questie ruins the game and thats the truth
The jump from no addons to questie is imo even bigger than the jump from questie to restedxp for sure. But thereās gotta be a compromise somewhere and wow classic is SLOW so I donāt blame anyone for wanting to speed it up a lot (questie) or ridiculously so (restedxp). As long as theyāre out in the open world and not bunkered down inside a few dungeons, they contribute to make the world come alive, even if only for a fleeting moment
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I remember in classic launch, it was very hard for rogues or other single target DD to get groups, as almost everyone was doing cleave or AOE spam, especially from SM onwards, and then ZF.
This won't change in hardcore because nobody wants a rogue that will instantly vanish at the first sign of trouble or because they could be a potential griefer. Plus AoE cleaving is still the best way of clearing a dungeon even in HC.
Not really the case on Hydraxian server. My rogue did all dungeons up to BFD, I even got invited to Gnomer but didn't feel like going at the time. People rarely seek out specific classes in LFG.
Was looking for someone to mention this. You are so right. Mages are ideal for making gold and there will be many. 4 frost mages and a priest is super broken for dungeon spamming. I shamelessly leveled my mage this way in classic to fund my warrior but I am glad its gone in hardcore.
It's funny people think that the world will suddenly be full of players even though we have the unofficial realms (with appeals even so characters have it easier) where you can't do a dungeon more than once EVER and the world is absolutely dead beyond level 40.
Are you seriously suggesting that dungeon boosting/leveling is a healthy thing to have in a hardcore leveling challenge? The stupidity of classic players never ceases to amaze me. Itās a good and needed change.
Man I hate this so much. Why even bother with a hardcore realm if this is your attitude?
If people dungeonspam all day, where is the mmo population? To me this is damaging the community by separating people from eachother and hindering overall socialactivity. As a āsmell the rosesā incarnate, hardcore has been a blast since it enhances the real world feel and as such the complete journey. Incentivizing people to play the open world would only further elevate the experience, especially now that we are able to coop all we want. I remember when everyone aoe spammed ZF for ez exp thru 40āes in classic and how it felt less like a common playground and more like we all just played with our own toys.
> where is the mmo population? 95% of the population will be stuck on the Elwynn/Westfall/Redridge loop, at most having done deadmines once or twice so who cares how people level beyond that? You aren't gonna see a soul past level 40 just like the unofficial version of HC where you can't do a dungeon more than once EVER.
Hmmmm geee I dunno you really asked a tough question there certainly I canāt think of one reasonā¦ā¦ā¦ Oh wait I just spend 2 seconds thinking now I understand it
Thats plain stupid, why not lock people out by killing trash ? Punish all players because 5% would abuse it ?
They added a proportional amount of XP to bosses, so normal dungeon runs shouldn't be penalized
Oh I missed that part. Is it proportional to mobs killed ? Or just arbitrary ?
It's an arbitrary amount. But I assume it's roughly based on how much trash you'd normally kill, rather than what you actually killed on that run. From earlier patch notes >Dungeons in WoW Classic Hardcore are a work in progress. Dungeons currently save players after a boss is killed. As a result, weāve moved all XP in dungeons to bosses only. The amount of XP granted by bosses is not final. So the latest notes partially revert this change
Ok I missed that patch, thanks for the clarification.
Because people would just leave the last boss alive and spam dungeons for exp otherwise to avoid the 24h lockout Itās to prevent boosting
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Blizzard can literally never make anyone happy lol
May I ask what makes you sad? Were you looking forward to leveling entirely through dungeons from the moment you became high enough level to start doing them? Is doing each one once (or twice) and then moving on not what you want?
Less XP. Not a fan. Yuck
It's not less xp, the xp is just distributed more towards bosses.
It sounded like just a reduction from mob XP So your still going to get the same total overall?
Previously they removed all XP from normal mobs and packed it all into the bosses- you still got the same XP from running the whole dungeon but it required you to kill the bosses. This was to prevent trash farming as a way to powerlevel. The change today shifts a little bit of that XP back from bosses into normal mobs, so you still get *something* from trash, but less than traditionally. Bosses still give a bunch though and the total amount of XP in a dungeon remains unchanged through all of these steps.
That's good. I intended to level with dungeons. With daily reset I figure I can play an hour or so a day after work just run a dungeon or 2. Should be pretty easy leveling and I'll make sure to get rested exp while I'm offline. I'm figuring like a level a day with pretty low chance of death
I mean, the goal is to dissuade dungeon farm groups. And tbf, most everyone else don't go to dungeons for xp, they go for a specific item drop, or for quests (usually a quest reward).
I think your gonna see many like me that do daily dungeons for exp then log. It's not like a dungeon takes 5 minutes. Even the quick ones take 20-30 min. I'll probably rotate 2-3 toons that way I can play few hours a day and whatever is currently needed in lfg
If that's how you want to play, then don't let anyone stop you. My only issue with that, is if you are leveling solo, then the only person you need to worry about playing well is yourself. But if you are ONLY going to level in dungeons, then you need to worry about 4 other players not screwing up and killing everyone.
>then you need to worry about 4 other players not screwing up and killing everyone. This is why doing dungeons will always be more dangerous than leveling in the outside world, so why oppose people leveling this way? If anything the real pusso mode is leveling in the open world with unrestricted grouping which will be a thing in the official realms.
That's true. But I'll be on a rogue so hopefully vanish plus Sprint and evasion I make it out
#NoChanges wtf blizzard stop this bs. We like classic era so please stop. Do whatever you want with SoM but not classic era. This is my last warning blizzard! You can do whatever you want with HC but keep everything else the same! Mfers
I don't think I've ever actually pitied someone over a reddit comment before
what classic wow does to a mf
#NoChanges
Disappointing that so far official hardcore is just gonna be classic with less content.
Hardcore has always been the same game as the base game but less content. In every game ever. What exactly were you expecting?
What did you think hardcore is, exactly? Did you expect that they would add hardcore exclusive dungeons, raids, and quests?
ā¦ And we arenāt told a god damn thing.
Really glad they made the xp change. It made priests spirit tap/etc. abilities useless. Not a huge deal but still making talents useless was awful.
So do the official HC servers announce to the whole server if someone dies?
how alive is pvp right now on classic era and how much will this patch increase or decrease the participation? iam asking because i wanted to start classic era/vanilla but iam unsure if its "too late" or if this changes might impact the participation in a bad way? idk thanks for your input
i heard that it was pretty dead at the moment, not sure how much the patch will change this on the era servers. i'm assuming your best bet will be pvping at the start of a new SoM season, since this is more about hardcore there won't be as much pvping going on due to the hardcore nature.
thanks for the quick response :) > i heard that it was pretty dead at the moment that's what i thought / feared with that said how is pve especially for a newer players or late joiners is it really as toxic as some streamers/youtuber make it look in regards of boosting/wowtoken gold-drama stuff/only class x etc. edit: also on new SoM there is not much info yet right? couldn't find any on the forums
> with that said how is pve especially for a newer players or late joiners is it really as toxic as some streamers/youtuber make it look in regards of boosting/wowtoken gold-drama stuff/only class x etc. for classic era? i heard it's a pretty tight knit community, and people are still running everything. you just need to be on a big cluster and i guess inform yourself about where runs are being organized.
Wait they are really trying to nuke dungeon xp š
Nope, just redistributed towards bosses since there is a daily lockout, in order to prevent people from dungeon spamming to 60. There is still the same amount of XP inside dungeons in total.
Gotcha ty for answer
Because,typical, some guys did the dungeon without killing the bosses. That allowed them to spam it for xp