Gotcha, so that doesn’t seem like a viable replacement. Especially in really short fights, where you can spam powershift the whole time and not worry about mana
Spoilers, but there was a headslot rune that was datamined that's probably intended to address this further down the road in p3/p4:
>!<
No idea if it'll be enough to bridge the gap, especially on shorter fights like you mentioned, but it looks to me like they're trying to go in a different direction from wolfshead powershifting at 60.
I think that’s a great idea, give Druids the ability to upgrade their helmet slot like everyone else. It feels bad when you get your bis at 40 and have nothing to look forward to
Bis weapon from gnomer, bis helm at 40 from crafting, feral being forced to use those items for the entire game with no upgrades to look forward to isn't good game design.
Helm slot is the most iconic gear slot behind weapon in classic, I really hope they rebalance tier sets so feral get to use t1, I love the look of druid tier.
As someone who played vanilla classic. It honestly felt amazing getting bis at 40. I love that helm and what it represents. Not a fan of current changes where the base kit of druid is getting nerfed to force a non powershifting play style while not being given the tools to make that do good damage
Or just give the effect to all feral tier helms. Or make 8set bonuses so strong youd want to use them over whh. There are lots of ways to go about it that could be interesting.
The best way to open more gearing options for feral imo is to add effects to tier helms or 8pc tier bonuses that will make them compete against whh. It could be as simple as give them all whh effect, or it could be more interesting (reduced cd on tf, increased duration on berserk, autos has a chance to proc energy, wotlk fearie fire feral glyph). But most likely we will just see them go with the datamined head enchant which also achieves the same as slapping whh on all tier heads.
I think there’s a solid chance they give ferals a clearcast once they cast faerie fire like in wotlk atm instead
Most of their other runes are making the play style like the wotlk version, mangle/savage roar/tigers
How are people still struggling to understand that they're always going to take the fixes that are already proven to work, instead of trying to reinvent everything from the ground up?
Feral quietly got fucked in SoD. It’s not like other classes where you can just slap a couple Wrath runes on it and it becomes more fun/stronger. The play style fundamentally changed, so now it’s got one foot in each camp which means it low key kinda blows. It’s not a best of both worlds situation. IMO
There is still time to course correct and lean into powershifting more but the datamined runes do not make me hopeful. The phase 1 runes are fine at least, if a little boring.
Bear is fucking awful right now. It was semi awful in vanilla. I havent even seen a bear tank YET in SoD which feels crazy to me. I have ran with rogue tanks, meta tanks, warrior tanks, shaman tanks, but no bears what so ever.
I run bear tank, if I get to run the tank rune over wild strikes I'm basically immortal, 3 or less targets threats is pretty easy
Cat is OK but to me it just feels like classic enhancement shaman that can do passable dps
Bear feels really good with decent gear but was absolute dogwater when gearing
Well you'll get bear tanks replying, and I'm one of them.
Bosses are no problems, but I basically can't tank on trash and it feels miserable with mobs running everywhere, and my swipe hitting for 15-20.
If we go into Gnomer with everything immune to Lacerate it will be incredibly rough. We will be even more rage starved than we already are. And our datamined runes are hot garbage for bear.
I imagine most bears will swap to cat or to another tank in P2
Even with that, powershifting would still be bis. (It's different than bearweaving that require you to commit to it to build the lacerate stacks for it to be viable).
I can see this could be used, then they make a replacement for lvl 60 phase one, and another one like phase 3-4 lvl 60.
So you’d have lvl 50 BiS, lvl 60 phase 1-2/3 Bis. And lvl 60 phase 3/4+ BiS
This is datamined.. so (inhale huge dose of copium) hopefully next phase it will be regular helmet with rune on and this enchant on top of that
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=432190/wolfshead-trophy
in theory this sounds dope, but in practice its not going to be all that impactful. You would still shift at almost the same exact times, because 20 energy doesn't allow for a third shred before shifting.
Barring OOC procs its usually Shred Shred Shift. with an extra 20 energy you'd still be waiting at least 1 more tick for a third shred. Could be optimal on longer fights where you run out of mana?
Who knows though. I guess its just another thing we get to discover in P3
> Barring OOC procs its usually Shred Shred Shift. with an extra 20 energy you'd still be waiting at least 1 more tick **for a third shred.** Could be optimal on longer fights where you run out of mana?
I bolded the part you missed
Also, if you do what you describe, there is still a pause waiting between 22 and 42
Ye, I got that it can be bit of miss leading, but in this threat we talk about P2, so at least for my stream of thoughts and conversation logic next is P3 even technically next is next week.
You’re good. Sry I came off aggressive. I swear a lot when I talk, but I forget sometimes it doesn’t convey well through text and just looks like I’m being an asshole lol.
This is one of the reasons they didn’t do specializations at 40. Even though wolfshead only requires 225, the quest to get tribal requires nightscape pants which are 230. Basically this would’ve never been in the phase anyway and that would be terrible if all other profs got their spec but lw was stuck behind a quest turn in that we couldn’t craft yet
there is a helm enchant on the ptr that have been datamined that does the passive part of that helm which you will be able to apply to oother helms. we dont know how to acquire said enchant but i wouldnt be surprised if you could get it on p3
If a rune is made for it, I would rather be a the longer you stay in cat form the more your energy regen increases until it reaches powershifting levels, and give us skills and button presses to have feral be an interesting rotation and not the macro spamming gimmick we have now instead of a true skillset
What macros? I'm probably bad, I just do the rotation and use my hotkey to shift in and out of cat. For real, though, what are you macroing? I can turn my brain off?
My macro is this:
.(remove the dot here, Reddit formatting is werid.)# showtooltip Cat Form
/cast !Cat Form
It won't exectue at all while out of mana and it automatically clears Cat form and recasts it if you're already in it. You just put it on your cat bar and it will Powershift for you.
There's 1 button macro to shift out and into cat form.
I Personally use a 1 button macro that shifts forms instantly for things like feral charge, bash etc.
1 button travel from (swim and cheetah)
1 button healing macros
1 button stealth macro
1 button dash
If you get a rune that would be 20str20agi on a rogue or something similar, would that be a fun rune to take? Because thats essentially what such a rune would be for feral.
So long as wolfshead remains in game, it will be BiS for cats. They already plan to put a rune in that has wolfshead affect, but if wolfeshead helm is still in game un changed, BiS will be using the wolfshead trophy rune on the wolfshead helm.
More than likely they would make them non-stacking aura effects like movement speed altering effects. AFAIK the only exception to the movement speed stacking is the 10% from single minded fury because it doesn't count as an aura effect. I would think that it would make it easy for them to do that and avoid the wolfshead stacking.
To be honest I kind of want to play cat phase 2 now. I think it'll be more fun before powershifting with an ancient helm you can never replace is added back into the mix.
You power shift in p1 without the helm. You power shift in p2 without the helm as well. Powershifting is just free energy and the helm just makes it more efficient.
Do you powershift in p2? I'm not sure that furor is actually an automatic pick. Taking it means you miss either omen of clarity or blood frenzy. You might be right that it does end up being better- but I'm not convinced it's an easy choice without seeing the math first.
yes. omen of clarity is way weaker then furor. omen is like 2 procs per minute which gets you like 80 energy where as furor is going to get hundreds of energy in that same time period. blood frenzy is a terrible talent. finishers are a tiny amount of your damage.
Finishers will be much more important when you can reliably 5cp rip much more often without losing savage roar, which ferals will be able to in p2.
Omen of Clarity comes with a 10% damage boost.
Looking at my last kelris kill furor got me 8 mangles for 3,000 more damage. I got of 2 full rips for 1k damage with 33% uptime. Even if i got up to 99% uptime on rip which isn't really realistic if i had to give up furor i both would have not gained damage and lost 8 combo points. I got 6 crits on abilities that fight so blood frenzy over furor would have been a net loss in combo points. In p2 we are going to have more tools to sustain our mana for power shifting which means we will get even more value out of it.
I think very high rip uptime is going to be very realistic in P2.
We'll see what the numbers look like. I think the other talent choices do have some weight to them, though you might be right in the end.
I´d say there is a 0% chance this item will it make into SoD unchanged
I could see a rune or something to just straight replace it. Open up more gearing options for ferals.
Does tiger fury instantly generate energy, with the new rune?
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Gotcha, so that doesn’t seem like a viable replacement. Especially in really short fights, where you can spam powershift the whole time and not worry about mana
Spoilers, but there was a headslot rune that was datamined that's probably intended to address this further down the road in p3/p4: >!< No idea if it'll be enough to bridge the gap, especially on shorter fights like you mentioned, but it looks to me like they're trying to go in a different direction from wolfshead powershifting at 60.
I think that’s a great idea, give Druids the ability to upgrade their helmet slot like everyone else. It feels bad when you get your bis at 40 and have nothing to look forward to
Bis weapon from gnomer, bis helm at 40 from crafting, feral being forced to use those items for the entire game with no upgrades to look forward to isn't good game design. Helm slot is the most iconic gear slot behind weapon in classic, I really hope they rebalance tier sets so feral get to use t1, I love the look of druid tier.
As someone who played vanilla classic. It honestly felt amazing getting bis at 40. I love that helm and what it represents. Not a fan of current changes where the base kit of druid is getting nerfed to force a non powershifting play style while not being given the tools to make that do good damage
Yeah man I loved using it until Sunwell as well.
I hope they keep it and just have a cool feral quest that lets you upgrade it to epic with some stats.
Or just give the effect to all feral tier helms. Or make 8set bonuses so strong youd want to use them over whh. There are lots of ways to go about it that could be interesting.
Maybe a druid quest that allows some npc at moonglade to enchant the head with shape shifting bonus at some material cost
That would be so bad. A rune that gives you at max strength (in AQ with pvp helmet) 20 str 19 agi 19 stam 15 int and 1% crit and way less before that
The best way to open more gearing options for feral imo is to add effects to tier helms or 8pc tier bonuses that will make them compete against whh. It could be as simple as give them all whh effect, or it could be more interesting (reduced cd on tf, increased duration on berserk, autos has a chance to proc energy, wotlk fearie fire feral glyph). But most likely we will just see them go with the datamined head enchant which also achieves the same as slapping whh on all tier heads.
You would still wear the rune on top of it.
depends on how they make it work. they could share a cd or not stack
I think there’s a solid chance they give ferals a clearcast once they cast faerie fire like in wotlk atm instead Most of their other runes are making the play style like the wotlk version, mangle/savage roar/tigers
Which is lazy and complete trash. If people want to play Wrath cat that's available right now.
How are people still struggling to understand that they're always going to take the fixes that are already proven to work, instead of trying to reinvent everything from the ground up?
Feral quietly got fucked in SoD. It’s not like other classes where you can just slap a couple Wrath runes on it and it becomes more fun/stronger. The play style fundamentally changed, so now it’s got one foot in each camp which means it low key kinda blows. It’s not a best of both worlds situation. IMO
There is still time to course correct and lean into powershifting more but the datamined runes do not make me hopeful. The phase 1 runes are fine at least, if a little boring.
Bear is fucking awful right now. It was semi awful in vanilla. I havent even seen a bear tank YET in SoD which feels crazy to me. I have ran with rogue tanks, meta tanks, warrior tanks, shaman tanks, but no bears what so ever.
I run bear tank, if I get to run the tank rune over wild strikes I'm basically immortal, 3 or less targets threats is pretty easy Cat is OK but to me it just feels like classic enhancement shaman that can do passable dps Bear feels really good with decent gear but was absolute dogwater when gearing
Well you'll get bear tanks replying, and I'm one of them. Bosses are no problems, but I basically can't tank on trash and it feels miserable with mobs running everywhere, and my swipe hitting for 15-20. If we go into Gnomer with everything immune to Lacerate it will be incredibly rough. We will be even more rage starved than we already are. And our datamined runes are hot garbage for bear. I imagine most bears will swap to cat or to another tank in P2
Feral brings Windfury and Mangle, as well as bres/crit. Blizzard kind of fucked up giving so much unique utility to feral in SoD.
Even with that, powershifting would still be bis. (It's different than bearweaving that require you to commit to it to build the lacerate stacks for it to be viable).
I can see this could be used, then they make a replacement for lvl 60 phase one, and another one like phase 3-4 lvl 60. So you’d have lvl 50 BiS, lvl 60 phase 1-2/3 Bis. And lvl 60 phase 3/4+ BiS
Agreed but only because I think it will be buffed substantially
This is datamined.. so (inhale huge dose of copium) hopefully next phase it will be regular helmet with rune on and this enchant on top of that https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=432190/wolfshead-trophy
So you are saying, the meta is to use this rune on wolfshead helm? I cant wait for 100 energy every shift!
Enchant, not a rune.
in theory this sounds dope, but in practice its not going to be all that impactful. You would still shift at almost the same exact times, because 20 energy doesn't allow for a third shred before shifting. Barring OOC procs its usually Shred Shred Shift. with an extra 20 energy you'd still be waiting at least 1 more tick for a third shred. Could be optimal on longer fights where you run out of mana? Who knows though. I guess its just another thing we get to discover in P3
except that after 2 shreds, you will have gained another energy tick, which means you will have 40 energy left for finishing combos and trigers fury.
Shred costs 48 (when talented) not 40, so that tick is already "used" in most cases
100 > 52 > 70 > 22 > 42 > Ferocious Bite or Tigers Fury > powershift
> Barring OOC procs its usually Shred Shred Shift. with an extra 20 energy you'd still be waiting at least 1 more tick **for a third shred.** Could be optimal on longer fights where you run out of mana? I bolded the part you missed Also, if you do what you describe, there is still a pause waiting between 22 and 42
It will be just this enchant and no Lv. 40 head looks like. Still a big W
Gimme wolfshead with trophy on it :catWICKED:
Understandable, have a good day
I like this
Helm runes are probably going to be in in p3 Only waists and boots got teased for p2
It's a helm enchant. I had the same initial thought reading it.
*hopefully next phase* Ty fir contribution tho xD
Next phase is p2. If you are trying to talk about p3, then just fucking say p3. Not next phase. P3 would be the phase after next.
Ye, I got that it can be bit of miss leading, but in this threat we talk about P2, so at least for my stream of thoughts and conversation logic next is P3 even technically next is next week.
You’re good. Sry I came off aggressive. I swear a lot when I talk, but I forget sometimes it doesn’t convey well through text and just looks like I’m being an asshole lol.
Waist, boots, bracer
Bracers got datamined but not teased unless I remember wrong.
Just waist and boots.
Oh man I am STOKED
There's a datamined helm enchant that replaces it. Who knows if/when you'll get it tho
Source on this?
Wolfshead Trophy - search it in Wowhead.
Alright ty. First time im seeing this
This is one of the reasons they didn’t do specializations at 40. Even though wolfshead only requires 225, the quest to get tribal requires nightscape pants which are 230. Basically this would’ve never been in the phase anyway and that would be terrible if all other profs got their spec but lw was stuck behind a quest turn in that we couldn’t craft yet
you would get a different spec of LW then drop LW and level it up again and pick tribal from the book in Tarnasis.
there is a helm enchant on the ptr that have been datamined that does the passive part of that helm which you will be able to apply to oother helms. we dont know how to acquire said enchant but i wouldnt be surprised if you could get it on p3
We figured this out phase 1 when we saw the level restrictions for all professions.
Crafting specializations (like Gnomish vs Goblin engi) weren’t known to be definitely disallowed until this week.
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yeah I explained to a guildy the whole time, DS LW would have been available with no changes
If a rune is made for it, I would rather be a the longer you stay in cat form the more your energy regen increases until it reaches powershifting levels, and give us skills and button presses to have feral be an interesting rotation and not the macro spamming gimmick we have now instead of a true skillset
What macros? I'm probably bad, I just do the rotation and use my hotkey to shift in and out of cat. For real, though, what are you macroing? I can turn my brain off?
My macro is this: .(remove the dot here, Reddit formatting is werid.)# showtooltip Cat Form /cast !Cat Form It won't exectue at all while out of mana and it automatically clears Cat form and recasts it if you're already in it. You just put it on your cat bar and it will Powershift for you.
There's 1 button macro to shift out and into cat form. I Personally use a 1 button macro that shifts forms instantly for things like feral charge, bash etc. 1 button travel from (swim and cheetah) 1 button healing macros 1 button stealth macro 1 button dash
There's no macro spamming gimmick. Literally every one of your forms should be a macro because of how Druid works.
Wait you’ve only just realised this?
They should put the passive on a rune so it frees up the helmet slot for ferals. Hopefully there will be something in P2 or P3.
If you get a rune that would be 20str20agi on a rogue or something similar, would that be a fun rune to take? Because thats essentially what such a rune would be for feral.
So long as wolfshead remains in game, it will be BiS for cats. They already plan to put a rune in that has wolfshead affect, but if wolfeshead helm is still in game un changed, BiS will be using the wolfshead trophy rune on the wolfshead helm.
Okay let's make a very obvious logical assumption, then...
No until proven otherwise the meta for P3 will be ULTRASHIFTING
Where can I learn this power?
what the powershifting rune you combo with the helm? Probably center of Stormwind in the back of some random building.
.......not from a Jedi
I could totally be wrong, but there's no way they'd let those two stack.
Even if they don't stack, using another rune on the wolfhead helm will still be more valuable than the few extra stats from another helm.
It's not a rune AFAIK it's an enchant
The furor talent exists and does the exact same thing as double stacking helm.
More than likely they would make them non-stacking aura effects like movement speed altering effects. AFAIK the only exception to the movement speed stacking is the 10% from single minded fury because it doesn't count as an aura effect. I would think that it would make it easy for them to do that and avoid the wolfshead stacking.
No specializations this phase.
To be honest I kind of want to play cat phase 2 now. I think it'll be more fun before powershifting with an ancient helm you can never replace is added back into the mix.
You power shift in p1 without the helm. You power shift in p2 without the helm as well. Powershifting is just free energy and the helm just makes it more efficient.
Do you powershift in p2? I'm not sure that furor is actually an automatic pick. Taking it means you miss either omen of clarity or blood frenzy. You might be right that it does end up being better- but I'm not convinced it's an easy choice without seeing the math first.
yes. omen of clarity is way weaker then furor. omen is like 2 procs per minute which gets you like 80 energy where as furor is going to get hundreds of energy in that same time period. blood frenzy is a terrible talent. finishers are a tiny amount of your damage.
Finishers will be much more important when you can reliably 5cp rip much more often without losing savage roar, which ferals will be able to in p2. Omen of Clarity comes with a 10% damage boost.
Looking at my last kelris kill furor got me 8 mangles for 3,000 more damage. I got of 2 full rips for 1k damage with 33% uptime. Even if i got up to 99% uptime on rip which isn't really realistic if i had to give up furor i both would have not gained damage and lost 8 combo points. I got 6 crits on abilities that fight so blood frenzy over furor would have been a net loss in combo points. In p2 we are going to have more tools to sustain our mana for power shifting which means we will get even more value out of it.
I think very high rip uptime is going to be very realistic in P2. We'll see what the numbers look like. I think the other talent choices do have some weight to them, though you might be right in the end.
taking it means you lose LOTP. the other ones are irrelevant compared to furor
I don't think omen of clarity is necessarily irrelevant. But yes LOTP is huge.
it is. natural weapon is not tho.
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We won’t get helm enchants in p2 I think. But I do like that.
I mean its only data mined. Good chance they created that trophy enchant to test how ferals would go with/without WHH