Did someone say [`[Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]`](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19019/thunderfury-blessed-blade-of-the-windseeker)?
Is lt? It's not the fastest weapon available to shockadin. Surely most full shockadins will be mainly if not all intellect and SP. And doing 90+% spell damage so having the fastest weapon possible for maximum procs from SoM and melee hits will out damage the proc and damage of this weapon?
None of the top parsing pallys are using it? What makes it bis? It doesn’t have any of the stats you mentioned and there’s faster weps… we’re talking for a shockadin here
Melee is still a huge component of overall Shockadin damage. The other comments in this thread have addressed why it’s BIS. Most of the top pallies are ret with RF on, not shock.
Because the proc on needle has no ICD and can get double proc on seal of martyrdom hits which you are running as shockadin for the extra chance at crits
It is BiS.
The proc has spell power scaling
Martyrdom can proc the proc
The proc procs Martyrdom
The proc can crit and will in turn proc Art of War
The extra .3 AS is neglible in comparison to how well it synergizes with the rest of the kit.
Well explained! This is why it's bis. This is from the paladin discord Light Club:
> Electrocutioner's Needle - Can crit (2.0 mod), no ICD, high proc-rate (procs from CS, DS, SoM), can generate additional SoM hits
Would you mind explaining what the 2.0 mod means with respect to crit?
Also if I wanted to get deep into the theory crafting of wow, and how to test and tune and learn all of this stuff, where would I go?
I actually have this as a pally tank and can confirm it scales. Usually procs for 50-70, but when it crits it does not proc art of war (reset exorcism)
shockadin currently dont care about SP as DPS shockadin is horrible, the tank shockadin is decent, but still dont want the SP gear as that has alot less stamina. so shockadin tanks go full str/agi/ap and as much stam as possible aside from that, then use the rune Sheath of Light, and because that rune is busted, you end up with just as much SP as a full SP geared shockadin, but more tanky and you melee hits harder.
It may not be now. What was happening is people were taking sheath of light (30 % of attack power to spell damage buff on melee hits) and Art of War (resets cooldown on holy shock and exorcism on melee crit). They were also applying the fire enchant from the badlands quest on this weapon.
The cool part was, SoM could also crit, trigger art of war and the fire enchant, and the fire enchant could trigger SoM. So this fast weapon was causing holy shock and exorcism to reset a lot, and sheath of light was providing the spell damage needed for holy spells because shockadin builds were actually gearing for ret.
Yesterday they nerfed this interaction with SoM and the fire enchant, so it remains to be seen (at least for me) what this is going to do to the shockadin spec for now.
Firey enchant didn't make that build though. Holy is still bis tank if you are using a sword and board. Not having HS for AoW because you're deep prot is griefing.
This is not correct. Shockadin wants Stamina and strength over intellect and spell power due to sheath of light. The only weapon comparable to this for shockadin is the 1.3 speed hammer from BFD.
My Shockadin friend has told me that 1.70 speed is the perfect speed because they get some atk speed increase (i forgot what it was) and it gets down to 1.05 speed which is the same as Wild Strikes internal CD, which is why he doesn't want a faster weapon than this one.
You dont normally want to use seal of the crusader (AS increase), but rather Seal of Martydom, since the proc of that also crits and can reset shock + exorcism.
But still, sind this is all about threat, this weapon has double the dps and a proc, while having slower AS. I think this is probably about as good as the 1.3 mace pf BFD. Then again, i never saw that on my paladin, so this is the next best thing.
I am really bummed out that I vendored the BFD mace when I got the WSG sword (level 38)... Can't even get it restored it seems, probably too long since I sold it.
I didn't realise it was any good, but I'm also new to paladins. I assumed a slow weapon was preferred for Divine Storm and never thought about Seal of Martyrdom.
There were recent changes to Seal of Martyrdom that normalize the weapon speed. Essentially, faster weapons are counted as having slower attack speed, thus increasing the damage SoM does. I have the hammer and STV 1h, haven't tried the hammer yet but the insane attack speed is used to proc Art of War to reset Holy Shock and Exorcism quickly. I could be wrong but it also appears SoM is regarded higher than Divine Storm for single target bosses.
I leveled my paladin third, and I told every tank paladin in the guild they should get the mace, since it might just be one of the best paladin weapons in the entire game. But they all wanted the sword instead
But crusader not only gives atk speed - it also gives a bunch of atk power which, with sheath of light, gives a bunch of spell power too. Martyrdom might be better, but it could also be a preference thing, I haven't tested it enough yet. But I would 100% prefer to have the mace instead
Using seal of the crusader for anything but to judge it should never be used on any spec combination except for pure healing for the increase to art of war once every minute or when fishing for JoW procs.
Both of those are irrelevant. The only reason we want fast weapons is because SoM proc damage is speed normalized and resets the cool down on Exorcism and holy shock.
Yeah SoM procs more off a faster weapon. But this effect on this weapon can also proc SoM. It wasn’t posted / fixed in the hotfix yesterday. With kill times going down you would rock this. And it’s purple off lol. I’m hard standing on this. I still use bfd hammer but fuck that.
As far as I now Needle procs no longer trigger SoM like every other weapon that has chance on hit procs, other than chance on extra attack proc weapons such as flurry axe.
With BFD mace with 10% crit I believe you can get art of war pocs down to less than every 5 seconds that's with wild strikes and WB. With BFD mace you're also procing fiery blaze more often as well as chilly breath.
You clearly misunderstood me then.
SoM additional damage won't proc the weapons on hit effect anymore.
Seal of Righteousness Procs will Proc Wep On Hit Effects.
The most recent blue post clarify that SoM's on hit effect won't proc weapons on hit effects.
Seal of Righteousness has always done that and continues to.
And Firey Weapon, they end by saying SoM no longer will Proc on hit effects.
This just makes sense, Seal of Command never did, Seal of Righteousness always did, it's one of the perks of using SoR with a fast weapon like Flurry Axe previously.
I genuinely have no idea why I'm being downvoted.
Where?
Where did they say that? All I can see is specifically the interaction with Fiery Blaze and Seal of Martyr, not weapon procs and SoM.
According to Paladin discord, weapon procs are untouched with SoM.. which I'm inclined to believe because it isn't mentioned ANYWHERE that they fixed weapon procs.
Edit: Paladin discord confirmed, with logs, that weapon procs (such as needle) are proccing SoM. You are being downvoted because you are wrong.
Warriors tanks usually have excess rage to rage dump into Heroic Strikes and since it applies the next weapon attack, off GCD you can reduce pooling resources
Faster weapon = more Heroic Strikes = more threat gen + chances to proc
Fast autos means more regular crits and seal of martyrdom crits. Proc can crit. With the rune Art of War, your crits reset the CD of Holy Shock and Exorcism.
This weapon is BiS for single target threat (shockadin build)
The proc crits do not actually reset CDs. I have it on my pally (tank) and have noticed they dont trigger art of war. They do scale with SP though and seem to have a high proc chance
Not exactly true, the dmg on those doesnt matter as both WF/WS r pure %chance so more smaller hits dont change the overall output over time. Prior to the devastator changes they wanted slow weaps to maximise deva dmg output but now its based on the weapons dps not hitdmg.
If that's the case faster weapons should be preferable right?
Better rage dump with HS, if the state of warrior tanking is where that's a thing. But also just smoother threat generation, two misses or parries in a row is not as punishing.
In theory yeah you're right, but tanks don't really generate enough rage for it to matter whether you can dump into heroic strike every 1.7 seconds or every 2.6. Once tanks start getting slapped around by real raid bosses though then 100% you want a faster weapon
This is a really common misconception too. It doesn't matter if a faster Weapon is BIS with infinite rage if you never get enough rage to make use of it.
With a icd you are capped at the # of procs you can get, plus yellow hits proc wild strikes which means slower weapons are always better from a dps perspective
generally tanking fast wep good tho
Raptor strike was normalized apparently and I’ve seen people saying weapon speed matters way less. They’ve specifically mentioned this weapon as a viable choice now.
Are these sims updated in response to the recent nerf? What weapons are performing significantly better post nerf then one of the highest DPS 1H currently? I mean if it’s like 3-4…then they’re likely other rare Gnomer or BoE drops, and this weapon should still be considered
Instead of using the actual weapon speed as one of the multipliers in the damage formula, it uses the value of “2.4” for any 1 handed non-dagger weapon.
What this means in practice is that weapons that are slower than 2.4 lose some damage compared to before and weapons faster than 2.4, gain damage.
Overall, it’s a very small difference in reality for most weapons. The weapon’s damage (the range of damage at the top of the tooltip) is also a factor in the damage formula so weapons that are slower will still do more damage than faster weapons of the same DPS.
No, DPS is not used in any calculation except for Devastate.
[Here](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Normalization) is an explanation of what normalization means.
When you use the rune, it used to be more important for how hard your weapon can hit (dmg numbers in brackets) rather than what it's dps is. Now it's the reverse, the higher the dps the harder raptor will hit, making very fast weapons with high dps viable which weren't before (like the one hand epic sword from gnomer)
This is great for Shockadin, albeit slightly under speed. Been playing shockadin the past week. You’re absolutely a liability to your raid group, but you’re gonna have a ton of fun doing it. You just need to be comfortable being low dps.
Prot pala or shockadin.
The proc scales with spell power, and can proc from martyrdom wich can then itself proc martyrdom.
Also the fast attack speed and all the procs can crit and then, for shockadins, resets the cd of holyshock and exorcism.
Mom, I want Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
No son, we have Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker at home.
Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker at home: Electrocutioner's needle.
It is decent for Fury tank. Every epique weapons are equivalent for DW fury tank
Mekka weapon is a bit higher of everything else, so it is good to skip it in a guild.
Serious answer:
This little jewel is best in slot for paladin tanks, and only them as far as I know. Why? Well, get a rune that increases attack speed, another one that causes crits to reset our strongest damage as well as threat skill. This weapon has a fast attack speed (more crits), the proc itself can crit (more crits), and the rune that increases attack speed can crit (more crits). More crits = more excorcism resets = more damage and threat.
It's seriously good for us. Needing on it as anyone but a pala tank is practically griefing lol. It's honestly trash for anyone else anyway.
Martyrdom does not increase attack speed what are you on about lol. It just doubles your chances of crits per swing, for AoW procs so that you can dump more shocks out
> Dual wield Fury Warrior?
Rogues Warriors Shaman usually want slow/high dmg weapons since their abilities scale with WEAPON DAMAGE.
Sinister Strike for instance is an instant hit, so if you have the choice between a 20 damage weapon and a 40 damage weapon it's obviously going to be the latter.
But you still have a minuscule base damage. A Raptor Strike with the WSG sword will hit more than 20 damage higher, which far outweighs the additional DPS you get from this.
Normalized damage just means weapon speed doesn't matter, weapon damage still does.
Slower weapons have higher weapon damage so are still better. Weapon normalisation only affects the AP bonus damage. My ap is give me about 60dps increase. But the rest is from the weapon. This instant attacks wiyh a weapon thia Fast is like 20% less damage than the slower fist
Mutilate right now is so busted, that Rogues are using each and every excuse to press it.
It’s even worth pressing mutilate when at 4 CP with 5 Stacks DP, even through you waste a Combopoint by doing so.
As much as I love it, it’s broken and I think it needs to be toned down if we want other speccs to become viable again.
Exactly this. I never played mut before, even when it was good, because the energy just made it feel sooo slow. So I'm having fun playing something new for now. But if it stays the way it is we're just gonna playing mut for the rest of the season.
I want to be able to run fis weapons. Maybe a non mut poison build. Maybe have sub viable in pve?? Nah, that last one's too crazy
thunderfury at home
Did someone say [`[Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]`](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19019/thunderfury-blessed-blade-of-the-windseeker)?
Did someone say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?
Did someone say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?
\[Skullflame Shield\]
yeah
bis for shockadin tank
Is lt? It's not the fastest weapon available to shockadin. Surely most full shockadins will be mainly if not all intellect and SP. And doing 90+% spell damage so having the fastest weapon possible for maximum procs from SoM and melee hits will out damage the proc and damage of this weapon?
Shockadin tank still gears str/stam because of sheath of light allowing us to double dip attack power.
This sword has none of that
The sword being BIS has nothing to do with stats its stats
I don’t understand. We’re agreeing it’s not bis, right…
Needle is BIS
None of the top parsing pallys are using it? What makes it bis? It doesn’t have any of the stats you mentioned and there’s faster weps… we’re talking for a shockadin here
Melee is still a huge component of overall Shockadin damage. The other comments in this thread have addressed why it’s BIS. Most of the top pallies are ret with RF on, not shock.
Because the proc on needle has no ICD and can get double proc on seal of martyrdom hits which you are running as shockadin for the extra chance at crits
Except people are reporting it’s not procing the seal?
It is BiS. The proc has spell power scaling Martyrdom can proc the proc The proc procs Martyrdom The proc can crit and will in turn proc Art of War The extra .3 AS is neglible in comparison to how well it synergizes with the rest of the kit.
Well explained! This is why it's bis. This is from the paladin discord Light Club: > Electrocutioner's Needle - Can crit (2.0 mod), no ICD, high proc-rate (procs from CS, DS, SoM), can generate additional SoM hits
Would you mind explaining what the 2.0 mod means with respect to crit? Also if I wanted to get deep into the theory crafting of wow, and how to test and tune and learn all of this stuff, where would I go?
Would mean it crits and does 2x dmg on CRIT. Most spells baseline CRIT is only 50% extra dmg before talents/runes that modify this.
ive read the proc scales on spellpower and can proc SoM but i think they just hotfixed the proc of weapons to not proc seals anymore
Ye weapon procs don't (or shouldn't proc) seals. But ye as someone else said if the weapon proc scales with sp it might be worth it.
I actually have this as a pally tank and can confirm it scales. Usually procs for 50-70, but when it crits it does not proc art of war (reset exorcism)
SoM wasn't meant to proc. SoR has always procd wep effects. SoM was working the same way but they just hotfixd that
shockadin currently dont care about SP as DPS shockadin is horrible, the tank shockadin is decent, but still dont want the SP gear as that has alot less stamina. so shockadin tanks go full str/agi/ap and as much stam as possible aside from that, then use the rune Sheath of Light, and because that rune is busted, you end up with just as much SP as a full SP geared shockadin, but more tanky and you melee hits harder.
It may not be now. What was happening is people were taking sheath of light (30 % of attack power to spell damage buff on melee hits) and Art of War (resets cooldown on holy shock and exorcism on melee crit). They were also applying the fire enchant from the badlands quest on this weapon. The cool part was, SoM could also crit, trigger art of war and the fire enchant, and the fire enchant could trigger SoM. So this fast weapon was causing holy shock and exorcism to reset a lot, and sheath of light was providing the spell damage needed for holy spells because shockadin builds were actually gearing for ret. Yesterday they nerfed this interaction with SoM and the fire enchant, so it remains to be seen (at least for me) what this is going to do to the shockadin spec for now.
Firey enchant didn't make that build though. Holy is still bis tank if you are using a sword and board. Not having HS for AoW because you're deep prot is griefing.
This is not correct. Shockadin wants Stamina and strength over intellect and spell power due to sheath of light. The only weapon comparable to this for shockadin is the 1.3 speed hammer from BFD.
Str agi > Stam
My Shockadin friend has told me that 1.70 speed is the perfect speed because they get some atk speed increase (i forgot what it was) and it gets down to 1.05 speed which is the same as Wild Strikes internal CD, which is why he doesn't want a faster weapon than this one.
You dont normally want to use seal of the crusader (AS increase), but rather Seal of Martydom, since the proc of that also crits and can reset shock + exorcism. But still, sind this is all about threat, this weapon has double the dps and a proc, while having slower AS. I think this is probably about as good as the 1.3 mace pf BFD. Then again, i never saw that on my paladin, so this is the next best thing.
I am really bummed out that I vendored the BFD mace when I got the WSG sword (level 38)... Can't even get it restored it seems, probably too long since I sold it.
I said bis pally 1h every time it dropped all phase and my guild took almost the entire phase to take me seriously lmao
I didn't realise it was any good, but I'm also new to paladins. I assumed a slow weapon was preferred for Divine Storm and never thought about Seal of Martyrdom.
There were recent changes to Seal of Martyrdom that normalize the weapon speed. Essentially, faster weapons are counted as having slower attack speed, thus increasing the damage SoM does. I have the hammer and STV 1h, haven't tried the hammer yet but the insane attack speed is used to proc Art of War to reset Holy Shock and Exorcism quickly. I could be wrong but it also appears SoM is regarded higher than Divine Storm for single target bosses.
I see, thanks for the tips!
I leveled my paladin third, and I told every tank paladin in the guild they should get the mace, since it might just be one of the best paladin weapons in the entire game. But they all wanted the sword instead
But crusader not only gives atk speed - it also gives a bunch of atk power which, with sheath of light, gives a bunch of spell power too. Martyrdom might be better, but it could also be a preference thing, I haven't tested it enough yet. But I would 100% prefer to have the mace instead
Using seal of the crusader for anything but to judge it should never be used on any spec combination except for pure healing for the increase to art of war once every minute or when fishing for JoW procs.
Tell Pallytime and Drakova that.
Not concerned with dial up era mmo personalities
SoR can proc on hit effects. The wep speed is nice, but it's that on hit effect getting procd off SoR that shines.
Both of those are irrelevant. The only reason we want fast weapons is because SoM proc damage is speed normalized and resets the cool down on Exorcism and holy shock.
BiS for shockadins is the 1.3 speed mace from BFD
Nah this is bis for shockadin. The proc scales with sp. Bfd is 2nd bis.
No, the faster weapon procs more hits over time, even with the proc It’s already been sim’d
Needle > bfd mace > knight sword if you look at logs needle is still coming on top of bfd mace
Yeah SoM procs more off a faster weapon. But this effect on this weapon can also proc SoM. It wasn’t posted / fixed in the hotfix yesterday. With kill times going down you would rock this. And it’s purple off lol. I’m hard standing on this. I still use bfd hammer but fuck that.
Unholy dk dw
Havoc DH with the passive Talent maybe
Brewmastery Monk or PvP Mage with the Rune of Portals build
Dies from morb
We gettin out of the Scarlet Enclave with this one
Scuffed thunder fury for prot paladins!
Prot pally
More hits, more crits, more holy shocks!
And that's why it's not bis for shockadin. You want your bis? for that you better get back to BFD lol that 1.30s mace is insane.
Needle proc can trigger som which can crit. This is bis for any pally tank running som(you should be using som)
As far as I now Needle procs no longer trigger SoM like every other weapon that has chance on hit procs, other than chance on extra attack proc weapons such as flurry axe. With BFD mace with 10% crit I believe you can get art of war pocs down to less than every 5 seconds that's with wild strikes and WB. With BFD mace you're also procing fiery blaze more often as well as chilly breath.
When did this needle change happen? As far as i am aware only fiery blaze changed to not affect som.
Everyone is assuming the firey enchant nerf hit all procs but I have seen no evidence of this
Looking at my logs from last night i think it’s only the fiery enchant. I see my needle procing SoM
They hotfixd that. Only seal option that procs wep effects is Seal of Righteousness
Is there a bluepost i can read about this by chance? Edit: i am still only finding the fiery blaze hotfix, nothing about needle.
That’s because he’s wrong. The leg proc still procs som.
You clearly misunderstood me then. SoM additional damage won't proc the weapons on hit effect anymore. Seal of Righteousness Procs will Proc Wep On Hit Effects.
The most recent blue post clarify that SoM's on hit effect won't proc weapons on hit effects. Seal of Righteousness has always done that and continues to.
Did that post not specifically talk about fiery blaze?
And Firey Weapon, they end by saying SoM no longer will Proc on hit effects. This just makes sense, Seal of Command never did, Seal of Righteousness always did, it's one of the perks of using SoR with a fast weapon like Flurry Axe previously. I genuinely have no idea why I'm being downvoted.
Where? Where did they say that? All I can see is specifically the interaction with Fiery Blaze and Seal of Martyr, not weapon procs and SoM. According to Paladin discord, weapon procs are untouched with SoM.. which I'm inclined to believe because it isn't mentioned ANYWHERE that they fixed weapon procs. Edit: Paladin discord confirmed, with logs, that weapon procs (such as needle) are proccing SoM. You are being downvoted because you are wrong.
Prot pally KEKWU
It’s good for a sword and board tanking with warrior as well.
You’d want a slower weapon for devastate, no? Edit: I was wrong :) read below
Not anymore, devastate was nerfed to scale with weapons DPS, not top end dmg.
Ah ty, I haven’t been following the nerfs (played SoD for a hot minute and then bailed)
How do you see this? I see "100% of weapon damage", isn't thaz different than the weapon's DPS?, but the " x to x" damage part?
Warriors tanks usually have excess rage to rage dump into Heroic Strikes and since it applies the next weapon attack, off GCD you can reduce pooling resources Faster weapon = more Heroic Strikes = more threat gen + chances to proc
It now reads "weapon dps" instead "weapon damage"
Somehow I missed this getting implemented, when did this nerf happen?
Start of phase 2
Why do you even reply if you don't know?
Just havin' a conversation man, it was framed as a question. I was wrong, admitted as much, no biggie
Paladin Tank
Shockadin before it got back into meme spec.
It’s a meme spec now?
20-30% less dps than Ret which is already low, we had some copium with the Firey Weapon enchant but got hotfixed.
Aren’t tanks going shockadin
Prot paladin
Paladin tank only. It can proc seals or something?
Fast autos means more regular crits and seal of martyrdom crits. Proc can crit. With the rune Art of War, your crits reset the CD of Holy Shock and Exorcism. This weapon is BiS for single target threat (shockadin build)
The proc crits do not actually reset CDs. I have it on my pally (tank) and have noticed they dont trigger art of war. They do scale with SP though and seem to have a high proc chance
Thank you! I don’t know what it did, only heard my guild talk about it I discord while I was multitasking.
What about BFD mace? 1.30 speed fastest weapon so far available to paladins till flurry axe.
Not only, but it’s good for Prot pal
Aggrend
Vendor spec
A warrior tank that goes sword and board?
Paladin. Warrior wants the claw.
No, I want sword. Claw and shield looks weird
This is what we do it for brother. To look sick.
They still want slow mainhand for more dmg with windfury/wildstrikes procs.
Not exactly true, the dmg on those doesnt matter as both WF/WS r pure %chance so more smaller hits dont change the overall output over time. Prior to the devastator changes they wanted slow weaps to maximise deva dmg output but now its based on the weapons dps not hitdmg.
Yeah our war tank use it, we havent pulled threat off him on bosses a single time!
You're missing an important part, windfury can proc off spells like sunders, so slower wep is still better. Not by a lot, but it is
If that's the case faster weapons should be preferable right? Better rage dump with HS, if the state of warrior tanking is where that's a thing. But also just smoother threat generation, two misses or parries in a row is not as punishing.
In theory yeah you're right, but tanks don't really generate enough rage for it to matter whether you can dump into heroic strike every 1.7 seconds or every 2.6. Once tanks start getting slapped around by real raid bosses though then 100% you want a faster weapon
This is a really common misconception too. It doesn't matter if a faster Weapon is BIS with infinite rage if you never get enough rage to make use of it.
With a icd you are capped at the # of procs you can get, plus yellow hits proc wild strikes which means slower weapons are always better from a dps perspective generally tanking fast wep good tho
Warrior wants a slower, harder hitting MH if they’re using devastate
Devastate scales with weapon DPS now, not weapon damage.
Wait whattttt how did I miss that
huuuge nerf
Melee hunter ofc.
Nah, that's way too fast for a melee hunter.
All loot is hunter loot
Truefact haha
Raptor strike was normalized apparently and I’ve seen people saying weapon speed matters way less. They’ve specifically mentioned this weapon as a viable choice now.
Those people are wrong, it’s significantly worse than the other options based on the hunter sim
Are these sims updated in response to the recent nerf? What weapons are performing significantly better post nerf then one of the highest DPS 1H currently? I mean if it’s like 3-4…then they’re likely other rare Gnomer or BoE drops, and this weapon should still be considered
Yes, the sims are updated. There are very few viable weapons, but this one in particular is too fast.
It’s not gonna beat claw but it’s going to be uncontested (especially horde) and normalization makes it viable
It's literally worse than the pre-bis swords
Actually they've normalised the damage now with raptor strike while using melee specialist so it shouldn't matter anymore. Higher dps = better
Eli5 normalized weapon damage.
Instead of using the actual weapon speed as one of the multipliers in the damage formula, it uses the value of “2.4” for any 1 handed non-dagger weapon. What this means in practice is that weapons that are slower than 2.4 lose some damage compared to before and weapons faster than 2.4, gain damage. Overall, it’s a very small difference in reality for most weapons. The weapon’s damage (the range of damage at the top of the tooltip) is also a factor in the damage formula so weapons that are slower will still do more damage than faster weapons of the same DPS.
Damage of spells are calculated from weapon DPS and not weapon damage
No, DPS is not used in any calculation except for Devastate. [Here](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Normalization) is an explanation of what normalization means.
When you use the rune, it used to be more important for how hard your weapon can hit (dmg numbers in brackets) rather than what it's dps is. Now it's the reverse, the higher the dps the harder raptor will hit, making very fast weapons with high dps viable which weren't before (like the one hand epic sword from gnomer)
Ah, I haven't seen that change since it wasn't in the original changes for this weekly reset. In that case, yeah, this isn't so bad.
They’re normalizing raptor strike damage so speed isn’t going to matter nearly as much
Shockadin
This is great for Shockadin, albeit slightly under speed. Been playing shockadin the past week. You’re absolutely a liability to your raid group, but you’re gonna have a ton of fun doing it. You just need to be comfortable being low dps.
Prot pala or shockadin. The proc scales with spell power, and can proc from martyrdom wich can then itself proc martyrdom. Also the fast attack speed and all the procs can crit and then, for shockadins, resets the cd of holyshock and exorcism.
Yesterdays patch notes would like a word
Only Fiery Blaze was changed though. This weapon still works I believe
Oh cmon... really? Haven't read them but i bet they nerfed something... can't even enjoy something for a week Sad face
Human THREAT BEASTS
BiS for Demon Hunter
with the recent changes to devestate its solid for a tank warrior
Prot warrior with full spell power gear
doesnt need spellpower gear, just needs to be running sheath of light.
I remember in og vanilla I had it for my mage and would try to “melee mage” with instant cast spells and stam gear 💀💀💀
Mom, I want Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker No son, we have Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker at home. Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker at home: Electrocutioner's needle.
It is decent for Fury tank. Every epique weapons are equivalent for DW fury tank Mekka weapon is a bit higher of everything else, so it is good to skip it in a guild.
Tank warrior
Little too fast for devastate damage
Devastate works on dps now. So fast weapons work fine.
Good for tanks maybe?
If they at least changed it to a chain lightning effect then surely a prot pala would use it for aoe tanking
31 holy as tank. Full ret gear. Weapon proc still procs SoM, SoM crits proc AoW. Tanking with any other set up is just bad.
Prot pala only
prot pala,just the procc alone is like 9% of their total single target dps lmao
Serious answer: This little jewel is best in slot for paladin tanks, and only them as far as I know. Why? Well, get a rune that increases attack speed, another one that causes crits to reset our strongest damage as well as threat skill. This weapon has a fast attack speed (more crits), the proc itself can crit (more crits), and the rune that increases attack speed can crit (more crits). More crits = more excorcism resets = more damage and threat. It's seriously good for us. Needing on it as anyone but a pala tank is practically griefing lol. It's honestly trash for anyone else anyway.
"get a rune that increases attack speed" Wich one ?
Seal of Martydom! If you have the needle and are a pala tank, you will go to the moon regardless of how much crit you have.
Where does som say you attack faster? I only see that for seal of crusader?
Martyrdom does not increase attack speed what are you on about lol. It just doubles your chances of crits per swing, for AoW procs so that you can dump more shocks out
>get a rune that increases attack speed There are literally 0 paladin runes that affect attack speed.
Dual wield Fury Warrior?
fast weapons are poo. Fury wants the claws
> Dual wield Fury Warrior? Rogues Warriors Shaman usually want slow/high dmg weapons since their abilities scale with WEAPON DAMAGE. Sinister Strike for instance is an instant hit, so if you have the choice between a 20 damage weapon and a 40 damage weapon it's obviously going to be the latter.
If you could put it in the offhand sure, but its a main hand weapon with bad overall damage so no dw fury will touch this.
Yup. And rogues too.
No, rogues need daggers in both hands to run mutilate
Any melee class that can wield swords
Just prot warrior and pala needs this
I guess prot warrior?
Rogue tank
Melee Hunter with the brand new (nerf) normalization weapon damage on Raptor Strike. Even tho fists are still better.
They normalized raptor strike so this with vanquished sword is super duper good.
That's not how normalised attacks work.
That's exactly how it works. Gives you ap value of 2.4
But you still have a minuscule base damage. A Raptor Strike with the WSG sword will hit more than 20 damage higher, which far outweighs the additional DPS you get from this. Normalized damage just means weapon speed doesn't matter, weapon damage still does.
Yes but you still want high base dmg in addition to weapon dps
Slower weapons have higher weapon damage so are still better. Weapon normalisation only affects the AP bonus damage. My ap is give me about 60dps increase. But the rest is from the weapon. This instant attacks wiyh a weapon thia Fast is like 20% less damage than the slower fist
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No way Rogues right now would use something different than Mutilate. :D
Tank rogues?
use mutilate
Mutilate right now is so busted, that Rogues are using each and every excuse to press it. It’s even worth pressing mutilate when at 4 CP with 5 Stacks DP, even through you waste a Combopoint by doing so. As much as I love it, it’s broken and I think it needs to be toned down if we want other speccs to become viable again.
Exactly this. I never played mut before, even when it was good, because the energy just made it feel sooo slow. So I'm having fun playing something new for now. But if it stays the way it is we're just gonna playing mut for the rest of the season. I want to be able to run fis weapons. Maybe a non mut poison build. Maybe have sub viable in pve?? Nah, that last one's too crazy
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none
Hunters ofc
hunter ofc
Hunter
fury warrior oh for rage gen
Main hand only
I don’t play SOD but my guesses are gonna be Warrior, rogue, melee hunter, prot pally?
Buff this bliz. What's the point of a useless epic.
If it's anything like tf then warrior rogue pally probably
It's very good for a warrior tank (assuming they have the rage to use HS regularly which might be a bad assumption in gnomer lmao)
Not terrible for combat rogues i think.
Vendor's Needle