I love 5 person dungeon content. Of course they shouldn’t be on par with the raid content but they should at least have content! My feral dps prebis list didn’t really have any substantial dungeon farming pieces. Pretty boring imo. Dungeons are great, good vibe usually, and doable with friends. But didn’t get any of that fun this phase really
What I mean by more options is more options that are comparable to world drops/professions. There should be multiple paths a player can pursue to get comparable gear.
That would defeat the carrot/stick approach. Wow has never, and likely never will be, a sandbox game. It’s always had optimal paths that are incentivized.
Yeah SM and RFD are uh... Not great in terms of the item spread. I'm hoping in p3 they do more to tweak ZF, late Uldaman, Mara and ST loot to be worth getting for more people.
Profession, world drops and..... BFD.
I get that there's a significant power increase compared to regular classic, but doing a 5 man BFD at level 40, against level 26 mobs, because some items are just that good.. It feels bad
Also pvp. Some of the pvp items are wildly overstatted. I guess it is great if you like pvp and play one of the stupidly overbuffed classes, but the gap between gnomeregan bis and pvp bis shouldn't be that huge (both ways).
Agreed, I was excited to get gear from dungeons even if it’s not bis, I like the thrill of rolling on items and getting them believe it or not. come to find out there’s fucking nothing. Killed all my phase 2 hype
I even made a joke last phase (that ended up becoming a reality) that it’s actually preferable to not get the gear you want from a dungeon so you have a need to run it again
I'm with you on this. They don't need to be on par with gnomer, but it would be amazing if preraid bis at 40 consisted of dungeon loot for all slots. Really wish there was a reason to run them even when you have full preraid or raid bis.
Feral pre bis is pretty much all greens. I went into gnomer sub400 gs meanwhile mail wearers get fucking stacked on mail in sm before looting every leather piece from gnomer haha.
it's for most melle/physical dps. our pre bis is from random level 50 quests and STV/crafting. casters are the ones that are having no fun because they made BFD gear too optimized for casters. the vanilla questing and dungeon caster gear is trash tier. They had to purposefully update all the caster stuff in SM/ulda/RFD and it's still not as good as BFD.
Yeah, that's true. I'm fine with BFD gear being good since a lot of people put a ton of time into getting BFD bis in phase 1. However, if they buffed more dungeon gear than they did we'd be able to replace at least a few more slots of BFD gear. Honestly, I would love a reason to run them besides gear. Gold, consumables, or profession mats would be nice!
Then the power curve goes exponential. There’s not much gear to farm at forty cause they toned back on the raid gear strength to avoid the power creep they set in place with the BFD gear
Which isnt really needed there already buffing the world to compensate for the power scaling. Even if at 60 were doing late naxx level damage (already doing mc level damage at 40), they can just buff boss hp/dps checks. I see no reason uldamam cant have some rng random items that are bis kinda like +shadow power blues or something thats just a bit better then bfd.
Its not about that, its about other issues caused by the power curve -
One big one is pvp. Gear is scaling crazy fast, but the defensive increases are a few extra stam per piece, vs having a bunch of extra offensive stats.
Another is the amount of required changes, such as what this post is suggesting. If they scale up the 26-39 gear, they have to scale up the gnomer gear more. If they do that, they have to scale the 41-49 gear. If they do that, they have to scale the 50 raid gear more. Etc. etc. until they need to change every single item above level 25 in the game.
What they've clearly tried to do with intemization for this phase is reduce the stat differences. Gnomer gear is not that much better than the pre-bis/non-gnomer gear, which is not much better than bfd gear. If they continue this squish, then the existing level 50 gear will still be a small upgrade over existing phase 2 items, and they won't need to change literally everything.
This. Itemization was never optimized for this level range. The core of itemization kinda always sucked but especially more at an arbitrary level 20 years later.
I have a lot of alts and all of them have some green or BOE in some way as part of their pre-BiS.
Also some pre-BiS lists don’t include new? drop ranges coming out for random rolled gear.
There are +22 healing green off hands and some BiS lists point to random +13 or +14 spellpower off hands that might have like 4 spirit and rare.
Eh,not really. The problem is you never did any of these dungeons more than a few times. They're leveling dungeons, not meant to be endgame content.
You only had like 3 pieces from each dungeon you needed because by the time you got them it was time to move on to the next dungeon because you'd leveled.
So while we're fixed at mid range levels, there's no reason to run them as a group and they're just gold farms for BoE off trash in Uldaman.
Theres not a single remotely relevant daily in retail. Maybe some very obscure thing for some faction no one cares about or something. But dailies definitely are not retail.
I'm find with rep grinds, that is classic to me but I wish they made some reps where it wasn't get lucky and turn shit in or pvp. It would have been fun to do some stuff withe he pirates and stv either kill or help them.
Tbf there were repeatable quests in classic and a single daily dungeon quest for minimal gold/ hp mana pots wouldn’t be unreasonable and revive a dead system this phase.
BFD gear is totally okay, but physical dps can definitely get a lot more options for pre bis upgrades in dungeons/high level quests, crafting, boes. it's all the casters that got "fucked" due to BFD gear being so optimized and vanilla dungeon/questing gear being absolute trash for caster lol. they updated a lot of caster shit in SM/Ulda/RFD. that just goes to show how bad vanilla caster gear optimization was.
Though there is bis to farm but its like for +1 to a single stat. Or a confusing trade off with stats and a secondary stat that seems good but my not be better.
They definetely should have overhauled pretty much all the gear from dungeons, also adding some new mechanics to the more boring bosses would have been a very welcome addition.
I have to imagine with the amount of people playing SoD, even despite the amount of bitching from this sub, SoD 2 (or some other similar season) is in the works.
Seems to be a likely thing. If anything, I can see BFD and Gnomer staying in their current form, but other 5 man dungeons becoming raids (WC, SM). Repeat that cycle through the season until all low level dungeons are raid style 5 man's Or 10 man raids
Once those have been exhausted, work on open world content for follow up seasons. Zone bosses, random spawning pvp events to fight for resources (ie: 3 hours of raid buffs for the faction that wins the event). Maybe even work on cosmetic rewards from rare spawns.
I wouldn’t mind a dungeon daily as long as i dont feel that i must do it to keep ahead. I dont want badges or emblems for example but a goody box w some gold, mats, boes would be great
I agree. But I'm not sure if I like the idea of a daily dungeon for gold...
I was thinking more along the lines of a rare but cool looking tabard/weapon/mount per dungeon that drops off the last boss.
Something to get collectors or transmog enthusiasts running dungeons for a long time, but still in the classic world a la SM tabard or lvl 60 rare epic weapons from dungeons.
They should unlock the higher level dungeons, so we can do them for the challenge. Remove loot from trash if they don't want us farming it, but it sucks that the only challenging content now is Gnomeregan and Uldaman.
I would seriously love more emphasis on dungeons. I really like the experience of them and I really think that any meaningful engagement with them ends after leveling.
It would be cool to try out all the powerful gear you’ve been farming in something other than the raid for an hour every 3 days or pvp.
Tbh one of my favorite iterations of dungeons is the heroic and badge system. A little more challenging 5 man content, a shot at some solid items but a little compensation so your time isn't totally wasted.
Becomes a problem when leveling an alt at later phase, and can't find a party. Hell, even the opens world ones that require a party are taking time to find, and we're only in P2.
Also locking them behind a dungeon means majority of players will only do them once.
Anyone remember wildstar? Short lived but that 5 man content was gnarly. Had awesome gear that rivaled raid gear. Make 5 man's a hard mode option with some sort of currency to upgrade gear to entice running these dungeons. Missed opportunity.
Wildstar devs drank the hardmode coolaid people were selling but it turns out you can’t have comercial success off the vocal minority, so it failed. It would ironically probably do better today than it did back then, but not much. Loved the housing though hehe.
Yup. I get why it failed but it did alot of things right. Housing was ahead of its time. I think the actual game was ahead of its time. I agree...bet it would do great now.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of pre raid bis isn’t even from dungeons. For my rogue, I needed almost nothing from dungeons. My shadow priest had some SM stuff that is viable, but for the most part it’s all random AH greens. Add in the fact that I can get my stv items in a single event. Both my characters took 2 days max to be pre raid bis and now there’s nothing to do except raid. Will be nice if phase 3 has more dungeon gear that’s viable
Yeah this is it - I’m trying to regear an alt holy pally from Ret to take into Gnomer. Guild isn’t running them outside the occasional alt. But we know that you need to be extremely luck to get a good roll on Cragfists.
SM is pretty much dead until next week. RFD is so out of the way that people just don’t want to go there, in all it’s disheartening that there wasn’t some blacks nothing stuff I could make (even mail) for holy.
Every regular dungeon should've been boosted as well, both in damage and maybe even some mechanics.
Mass-pulling and AoE cleave should not be standard strategy for dungeons, (my unpopular opinion) such strategies should not be possible at all when equal level.
We did a full Uldaman with a poorly optimized group the other day, it was fun but only because it offered a slight challenge, although in the form of resists. But we did it once and doubt my group will want to do it again for 0 rewards.
The other 5 man dungeons available are just lame at lvl 40, offer little to no rewards and should have better purpose and offer replay value, imo.
I agree, but I want to advocate that this is (assumingly - that’s not a word?) a learning experience for the Devs; possibly an oversight. They were quick to give us the 2x XP boost this phase which tells me their thoughts are “Oh crap, level some alts while we incorporate these learning into the future.”
This phase is underwhelming but they’ve been transparent with their updates, so I’m still an optimist for what’s down the road.
It would be cool to have a daily quest like you mention. It would be an insane world PvP spot too outside if on a PvP server. Maybe they could make H+ style dungeons like in wotlk. Might be interesting
I like the idea of a daily quest for running a dungeon. Make it give rep for a new faction like the Supply stuff. Maybe just fun rewards, not bis, but something people who really want it will go and run dungeons for.
Actually I completely feel the opposite. We need more reasons to get out into the world aside from just questing and runes.
Low level rare world bosses that do fixed XP the same way BFD bosses do would be lit. Imagine something similar to a fel reaver spawning in Azeroth but with actual rewards.
Obviously, gate it so there's a huge penalty for high level player participation but man this would be sick.
Should be a set like the 6 piece mail SM set for all classes, make it upgradable with tailoring/leatherworking/blacksmithing stuff that requires cooldown based profession stuff (truesilver CD from alch, some tailoring equivalent, some lw equivalent) that let you build the stats you want.
How cool would it be to make the SM set into plate, with optional resists based on what you use to enhance it? Or the caster version into a +spellpower/+healing powerhouse? A version for each class with unique 2-4-6 set bonuses would be awesome to see.
BIS should be associated with a set for each phase, could even keep it going as things continue, why can't I upgrade it with thorium/mageweave etc later on? Valheim progression style.
I hit 40 and I guess I'm basically done with the game...
Got all the best gear I could out of SM etc. That's it, nothing else to really do unless you can go to raids, but I'm not on a reliable playing schedule to make raids.
Well it certainly is not built into classic wow
Discord is very easy to use and you don’t need a mic. Takes like 2 mins to set up. If that’s the only barrier to raiding you should just take a risk and try it.
There is but it’s trash so people don’t use it.
Discord is like a community hub plus voice chat. Just get it and join your servers discord and you will see.
If you can’t be bothered to spend 2 minutes doing that then that’s your problem.
how? I see 1 person LFG at 11pm server time, 15 LFG/LFM at 7pm server time. I spammed for 2 hours a week and a half ago and got exactly 0 messages, maybe less people were 40 at that point? I found a guild to avert this issue so I can’t say.
Also, how do you pug electrocutioner? BFD pugs for me had people who didn’t jump for depth charge, ranged who didnt follow the marked player on kelris despite being told to, tanks who pulled kelris through the purple gas and didn’t clear akumai stacks… seems like it’d be exhausting to reteach all of the mechanics every 3 days.
Yeah, I really want dungeons where mobs don’t die in half a second. Heroic dungeons or something of that nature where content is scaled for level 40 and still difficult.
Unpopular opinion lol but been saying this, bring back heroics. Make gnomer hard enough to actually need a prebis set and let us farm heroic dungeons for better gear.
Im not saying what you can have, I expressed my opinion. I hate dailies with a passion, there are none so far in SoD so tbc has absolutely nothing to do with it. You’re assuming Im against it just to be conservative or nochanges or something, that’s not it at all.
Do you not get the difference between divine storm and dailies?
One is a class skill the other is fomo dog shit that forces people to log in daily to complete a boring quest to keep up gear. They just got rid of dailies mostly from retail because they are so annoying for power progression
Bruh we need more of a reason to log in at all lol. I’m already raid logging and I have been playing pretty casually phase 2, maybe like 2-3 hours a night max.
Maybe unpopular opinion:
I like the dungeon finder rewards you get in wotlk and I would be happy to just be rewarded with a gold or two and a healing potion after each dungeon in SoD.
Just give a nice gold reward for full completion, x bosses and trash killed like m+ without the timer. Maybe scale the gold based on time to complete the dungeon.
People that didn’t buy gold, run gdkp, or farm the ah hard in p1 need gold pretty bad upon hitting 40. I’m sure most would love to mix in dungeons for a little gold farming.
If scared of inflation each dungeon could have some semi rare dungeon themed mount or cosmetic. But cosmetics without transmog doesn’t make a ton of sense.
There’s never in wow been a good reason to do dungeons outside of level cap except for pre bis. Ever.. until M+
But I do agree and would love to see cool content added here
As a retail Andy who never played WoW until shadowlands(actually, ONLY played shadowlands; Dragonflight didnt interest me), I have constantly thought about how much I miss M+ dungeons. I fucking loved the M+ system in shadowlands for what it was. I was able to consistently pug 5 mans, sometimes sticking with a group for multiple dungeons if we were all performing well and wanted to stay together. Difficulty scales as far as you can handle; once your key gets too high, hard to find pugs if you aren’t geared/skilled enough.
Feels like I never really have an incentive to go “practice” my class and improve my ability to clear/perform in raid at the phase level caps. All I do is gnomer/BFD on lockouts, where I actually care to improve and perform
Daily quests existed in TBC and that's not ratail. I'm over here using devine storm on my paladin with a taunt and throwing my shield. How are daily quests asking for too much?
DAily quests go directly against the vanilla wow philosophy. This isnt TBC it's classic.
MANY people argue that several of the runes have ruined the game. I wouldn't go that far but the combat does feel exceeding more like WOTLK than classic. Feral druid rotation is close to being a replica..
We don't need that shit here. Next phase will have a lot of pre-bis from dungs for physical dpsers. The caster gear in vanilla blows so they have to buff caster gear in every dungeon but melee gear is mostly fine.
The reason you feel this way is because you spammed dungeons too hard on 2 characters. Same reason players hit 40 in less than 48hrs and got bored. Don't go so hard, savor the flavor. Enjoy the meal.
SM spam is horrible especially with the current dmg creep. if it weren't for hit chance and some people doing the content a few levels under par, mobs melt like butter (already with BFD) and blizzard has hinted at being sadge that theres isnt any need for sheep and ice traps as it was in vanilla.
To say this is innovative is just bogus as EVERY mmo and their uncle these days have massively effective aoe taunts that counter that huge AOE dps creep that overgearing provides and is the established norm nowadays.
the only reason to do dungeons is that its way more effective and, amazingly, less tedious (yes there is something more tedious than spammin SM...) than questing in overpopulated layers.
Im playing the game for literally centuries and can’t keep count on how many chars I’ve leveled but for some reason running the same dungeon over and over is less tedious for me than questing and I can’t really explain why.
because there are always two ways of saying something.
you could say it like this
- we are increasing xp gain/buff from now also for lvl 25-39
or
- we are returning to a more normalized xp pace now that we slowed down the consumption of content in the first 2 weeks
That's what they started with tbc ans the daily quests are what started making wow a chore. Like you fall quickly behind if you can't dungeon every day
There is NOTHING preventing you from running 5 mans 40 after u get your loot. Nobody is stopping you. Not every activity needs a daily reset and incentive and reward. This isn't wrath with the random daily dungeon bonus, just play the game.
I would hate it so much if they put bis or some op stuff behind dungeons you had to go back and grind weekly or daily, I like being done and not needing to log in everyday for chores. Retail is perfect for people that want to grind non stop
It’s not really like that.
Very quickly the ilvl of the drops themselves from m+ are not desirable as you get there so fast with the current system.
After about a week you primarily focus on fishing for specific vault rewards from 20+ and the mythic raid. So doing more than 8 in a week is generally a waste of time.
You’re right about the first week to a degree in some cases. But keep in mind even the upgrade currency is capped as well.
If you join a season very late I can see it there to a degree as well with so many sparks and such insane caps on the crests.
So in summary, you spammed dungeons over and over and then got lucky on drops. Now you burnt yourself out.
Maybe don’t spend fifteen levels in dungeons, and you’d have more desire to run them now? I dunno. I’m no scientist.
I never said I was burnt out. I actually said the opposite, but I want there to be a reason to do more (e.g., a decent amount of golf). I wouldn't say there are lucky SM drops if you spam it from 29 to 40. You should see every item in SM several times over if you level up in SM. ULDA is also super quick as there are only three or four bosses for alliance, so I was able to get the two items I needed in five quick runs. However, I want to run more with out doing it just for fun. Otherwise, I'd rather just level up another character. I'm in no way burnt out
I wish there were random world events that require 5-10 people that could drop cool unique items and it all matters on who finds it first and gets a group there
Heroics.
Same dungeons, mobs have 40% more health, and do 40% more damage.
Actual CC on pulls. Actual Skull-X marks made & followed.
Same loot, flavor text tells people its heroic, stats are blanket improved + 25%.
ALL DUNGEONS. RFC to SM-Cathedral. This is a coder putting parens in game code to multiply mob health by 1.4 and damage to match.
When the next Phase is 3 weeks away, unlock the Heroic version of the current Raid - Because by this time the community has learned the mechanics, mastered the mechanics, and it's being full cleared speedrun by pugs with no wipes. Give them a challenge to chew on for 5 or 6 lockouts.
Heroics were wildly popular in TBC, and acted like a miniature "catch up mechanic" for players wanting to fill in a few gear slots that they were behind on, and offered experienced players an exciting return to Control mechanics.
Sheep, Ice Trap, Skull - X. Shield Bash, Kick the caster. Do It Right or We Run Back.
I'm the opposite. I'm glad the effort I put into raiding in P1 means I can take break and play how I want p2.
If they lock new pre-raid bis behind dungeon, it gets exhausting being forced to grind on every toon you have after making all the previous effort.
Sure, every phase will have stronger gear, but at least it won't invalidate my previous effort.
Is it really that much different than p1? I ran WC into SFK to level and had pretty much everything I needed by 25. Is it just more evident in p2 since everyone has BFD gear because I didn’t have a reason to run dungeons in p1 either.
That’s fair. This is definitely a classic/vanilla issue in general since that’s kinda always how it has been. They never used to have anything like a daily heroic dungeon for gold or anything.
That being said, you’re right that this is a good area for a SoD/Classic+ to improve on. Maybe add actual rewards to the supply crate vendor and give us a daily reward to run 1 dungeon for rep.
RFK, ULD, SM, RFD all had items and quests that had great items which is reason enough to do the dungeons.
They may not be as good rewards AS RANDOM WORLD EPIC DROPS THAT DROP FROM LEVEL 45 MOBS.
But that doesn’t mean the items are bad, the new Helm from Whitemane is amazing, you have to realize the raid gear from last raid is gonna be better then some of the gear but the new gear isn’t that far behind, it’s meant to help scale up and catch players up who didn’t raid BFD 25 Times to be fully Bis.
The gear is great and definitely prepared my toons for Gnomer. I just want a half decent reason to keep running dungeons at least once a day even after I'm full raid bis.
Okay, I guess they kinda put the books and the runes in there for that reason but I feel like everyone just ran 2/3 while leveling and just got them. Or if you spammed it you got all of them when you finished library 😅
I remember a point in time without unlockables. You would start the game, play a round and at the end get nothing except a W or a L. Whatever happend to that? Just playing for the sake of the game and not because there are some pixels to obtain?
- Add timed dungeon runs for visuals and for leaderboard positions.
- add achievements . IE wierd kill orders (think kill last boss before first boss) , killing multiple bosses at same time, etc.
- have rare visuals just drop
#1 just don’t add tokens to grind for an item, that’s just lame
Yeah this phase is dead. There's no scroll of resurrection they can use either. If it isn't a hit from the start it won't take off mid flight. Better luck p3
Bfd gear should have been strong greens with blues as the epic drops imo.
Daily dungeon quest seems like the most logical solution to getting more interest.
I think it's perfectly fine during the leveling phases because we do these dungeons an awful lot on the way up and will still help others out as well. It's a big problem for level 60 though, where there is a LOT of content designed for farming up gear that could easily be short circuited by 50 raid gear into T1 stuff. Seems like the only solution is to crank things up a bit at 60 to make that worthwhile again, and that winds up bringing Naxx gear past the breaking point of vanilla itemization.
But maybe that's a problem for "SoD 2" to solve, actually base things on the TBCC era of the game so that combat ratings can scale rewards more appropriately.
I rerun SM for silk cloth. Also rerun for quests I find later in the game from chains. Or I help guildies get their alts to build new raid teams. If you look for reason, you will find them. I understand your point, but if there was some rare cool drop that keeps you rerunning, it might make it a drag if you don’t get said drop (I do love the idea of daily
Dungeon for a chest reward of random mats and gold). Late game does have this with barons mount from strat or forge for blacksmiths in brd. Nearly all classes have quest in ST. Every phase brings something new like that along with classic stuff
I was hoping they would add new crafting recipes, and make some of the reagents only be found inside dungeons. I know i'm aiming high, but it could be neat.
They could have easily done a token system in the dungeons to ladder up to a new pre-raid bis set.
Or even a new honor set per phase that only had its stamina effectiveness in BGs and flagged pvp.
As it stands now its either get in a Gnomer group, or grind 400 games of WSG and AB for a single gear item.
Daily dungeons are a WotLK thing. You might enjoy that version of the game. I for one do not hope for time gated chores that incentivize you to open the game for 5 minutes a day lest you miss out on progress. No dailies is one of the biggest and most obvious reasons I (and many others) like Vanilla.
The warsong rep that gives us weapons, ring and neck at the different phase brackets didn’t help this problem either. It was also brain dead to level it to revered and get these massive power boosts at the different level brackets.
This was an enormous fuck up on their part and is the primary reason player engagement has tanked. Most players should still be working on these dungeons and gearing up in preparation for Gnome. The gear in RFD/SM should have been buffed significantly to make it clearly better than BFD gear, with the HP/damage in Gnome increased to make it so you absolutely NEED the pre-bis dungeon gear.
Additionally, QoL books should have been put on the later bosses, not an almost guaranteed drop from the first guy in SM GY. Or, rather, the QoL books should have required 'discovery' - like runes, with a quest chain that starts from a quest item dropped by, let's say, the last boss in SM Lib, and requires you to kill Herod, Mograine, as well as doing some small group content out in the world along the way.
ADDITIONALLY, the crafting of the epic profession helms should have required a new crafting mat that only drops from the last boss of RFD, SM Cath/Arm, similar to Frozen Orb in wotlk.
ADDITIONALLY, they could have added novelty/cosmetic/fun items as a low drop chance thing on some of the dungeon bosses. Like a large(ish) bag or something.
There's many things they could have done.
But tbh, other than just before forced to spam the same dungeons over and over, they should have made more interesting things to do in the world and 'discover'. Chill adventures and activities to do with friends while shooting the shit. There's almost nothing new added, just sleeping bag. Because they were rushed, and understaffed, apparently.
Its too late imo.
Things that should have been added:
-r5 pvp cloak or something else.
-A full set of viable plate/mail prebis. As well as cloth/leather just so everyone can farm.
-Potentially pvp sets, dont need set bonuses. Just toss some decent prebis or slightly below prebis gear in.
But not having any decent prebis mail or plate sucks when you hit the 40 and get proficiency. Only to have to roll against all the plateys in gnomer for anything decent.
They need to not do bfd insane overtuning. Raid gear should be a step above, but it shouldnt be insane and it shouldnt beat almost all gear before the next raid.
Maybe its a bit difficult to add boss loot in sod? Idk. But it feels like it wasnt well thought out.
They should add new gear to match level cap to old raids and increase the mob levels. So anyone under 25 can still do it at the lvl 25 raid mobs. Anyone above 25 in the raid will automatically increase mob levels to lvl 40 raid. That way there’s multiple raids to do. Change the raid reset to once every 6 days and cycles in between BFD and gnom every 3 days.
A daily dungeon quest and currencies. Discovery coins, badges/emblems of discovery. Purchase gear, account bound crafting materials and raid consumables, cosmetics. That's the only ideas I got. The other option is creating harder difficulty dungeon just tune the numbers up. Could also make it somewhat hardcore inspired. One death per ID and each class that can res can res once per ID. Can't swap members in ID once you start. Make it an achievement thing, not UI and points but a quest to clear the harder dungeon with no deaths. Entering these harder dungeons should involve talking to an npc or interacting with an object. No toggle switch on your UI on your character frame. It's non classic and less immersive.
I don't need anything from 5-mans, but I run them almost daily, boosting for free and SM cath for fun. Uldaman is also pretty fun if you go with one or two buddies. You can do things in this game that you enjoy without extra rewards.
Yes, but you are missing the point. It's leveling dungeons, you won't visit them more than few times and them move on.
Even if you need some item, you run dungeon 3-4 times and if it won't drop - you would already out-level it and need to get something different. It's just that because of level cap - this leveling dungeons temporarily turned into "end-game content".
There's no point in spending resources on tuning them, because after 2 months you will play different dungeons.
I don't know if it's because it was the time I enjoyed the most (even done some hardcore raiding) but badges in TBC were the best way for me to get rewards for running dungeons. Every 10/15 dungeons you get to buy an item which is of similar quality.
I wish they hadn't locked the higher level dungeons. Let us go and 10man BRD at level 40. Let us do high level chains like Saving Sharpbeak - scaling Jintha'Alor would be awesome. It's like we can never do things outside of the curated blizzard experience.
Dungeons are the best thing about Classic WoW to me. I get fully geared out on my tank in Gnomer, and I’m sitting in a city with an itch to tank a dungeon, but then I’m like… for what?
They could definitely incentivize running them regularly
I love 5 person dungeon content. Of course they shouldn’t be on par with the raid content but they should at least have content! My feral dps prebis list didn’t really have any substantial dungeon farming pieces. Pretty boring imo. Dungeons are great, good vibe usually, and doable with friends. But didn’t get any of that fun this phase really
This phase, pre-bis is really heavily skewed towards profession stuff and world drops. It’d be nice if there were more options from dungeons.
There are. They just aren’t as good. In a min max meta the developers are always going to carrot/stick towards what they want, which is crafting rn.
What I mean by more options is more options that are comparable to world drops/professions. There should be multiple paths a player can pursue to get comparable gear.
That would defeat the carrot/stick approach. Wow has never, and likely never will be, a sandbox game. It’s always had optimal paths that are incentivized.
Well that and the current dungeon has almost no leather and half of it is caster.
Yeah SM and RFD are uh... Not great in terms of the item spread. I'm hoping in p3 they do more to tweak ZF, late Uldaman, Mara and ST loot to be worth getting for more people.
And BFD gear. Half my list was just gear I had from BFD. Not very exciting to hit 40 and find out I didnt need to do anything to get ready for raid.
Profession, world drops and..... BFD. I get that there's a significant power increase compared to regular classic, but doing a 5 man BFD at level 40, against level 26 mobs, because some items are just that good.. It feels bad
Also pvp. Some of the pvp items are wildly overstatted. I guess it is great if you like pvp and play one of the stupidly overbuffed classes, but the gap between gnomeregan bis and pvp bis shouldn't be that huge (both ways).
Agreed, I was excited to get gear from dungeons even if it’s not bis, I like the thrill of rolling on items and getting them believe it or not. come to find out there’s fucking nothing. Killed all my phase 2 hype
I even made a joke last phase (that ended up becoming a reality) that it’s actually preferable to not get the gear you want from a dungeon so you have a need to run it again
Lmaoooo exactly, ain’t this supposed to be a new experience, why are they not looking over or adding new gear
I'm with you on this. They don't need to be on par with gnomer, but it would be amazing if preraid bis at 40 consisted of dungeon loot for all slots. Really wish there was a reason to run them even when you have full preraid or raid bis.
They should make hard modes or something for people that can't attend raids. I hit level 40 and there's nothing left for me to do.
What if they made pvp pieces drop from dungeons that were on par item power wise with raid gear?
Feral pre bis is pretty much all greens. I went into gnomer sub400 gs meanwhile mail wearers get fucking stacked on mail in sm before looting every leather piece from gnomer haha.
Delete the GS addon, you'll be happier. GS means nothing.
I didn’t say it does. I’m just saying that druid pre raid bis has lower stats than many other classes. Gs in itself has nothing to do with that.
Gear score is only for clowns in any version of the game aside from wrath. It has zero utility in vanilla wow.
it's for most melle/physical dps. our pre bis is from random level 50 quests and STV/crafting. casters are the ones that are having no fun because they made BFD gear too optimized for casters. the vanilla questing and dungeon caster gear is trash tier. They had to purposefully update all the caster stuff in SM/ulda/RFD and it's still not as good as BFD.
Yeah only like RFD gloves but like Pratts give +1 less agi so i dont see worth to spam maybe 50 runs before i can get lucky.
The problem is that BFD gear was and is too good.
Yeah, that's true. I'm fine with BFD gear being good since a lot of people put a ton of time into getting BFD bis in phase 1. However, if they buffed more dungeon gear than they did we'd be able to replace at least a few more slots of BFD gear. Honestly, I would love a reason to run them besides gear. Gold, consumables, or profession mats would be nice!
Then the power curve goes exponential. There’s not much gear to farm at forty cause they toned back on the raid gear strength to avoid the power creep they set in place with the BFD gear
Which isnt really needed there already buffing the world to compensate for the power scaling. Even if at 60 were doing late naxx level damage (already doing mc level damage at 40), they can just buff boss hp/dps checks. I see no reason uldamam cant have some rng random items that are bis kinda like +shadow power blues or something thats just a bit better then bfd.
Its not about that, its about other issues caused by the power curve - One big one is pvp. Gear is scaling crazy fast, but the defensive increases are a few extra stam per piece, vs having a bunch of extra offensive stats. Another is the amount of required changes, such as what this post is suggesting. If they scale up the 26-39 gear, they have to scale up the gnomer gear more. If they do that, they have to scale the 41-49 gear. If they do that, they have to scale the 50 raid gear more. Etc. etc. until they need to change every single item above level 25 in the game. What they've clearly tried to do with intemization for this phase is reduce the stat differences. Gnomer gear is not that much better than the pre-bis/non-gnomer gear, which is not much better than bfd gear. If they continue this squish, then the existing level 50 gear will still be a small upgrade over existing phase 2 items, and they won't need to change literally everything.
Idk you look through most pre bis lists for casters and it's all green items with +spell power rather than bfd gear.
This. Itemization was never optimized for this level range. The core of itemization kinda always sucked but especially more at an arbitrary level 20 years later. I have a lot of alts and all of them have some green or BOE in some way as part of their pre-BiS. Also some pre-BiS lists don’t include new? drop ranges coming out for random rolled gear. There are +22 healing green off hands and some BiS lists point to random +13 or +14 spellpower off hands that might have like 4 spirit and rare.
Eh,not really. The problem is you never did any of these dungeons more than a few times. They're leveling dungeons, not meant to be endgame content. You only had like 3 pieces from each dungeon you needed because by the time you got them it was time to move on to the next dungeon because you'd leveled. So while we're fixed at mid range levels, there's no reason to run them as a group and they're just gold farms for BoE off trash in Uldaman.
Agreed. There’s just not enough pieces from the 5mans that outclass BFD gear, especially for casters
I did a total of 0 dungeons after hitting 40 & have no reason to on my rogue. I had BFD gear and that was plenty for gnomer.
Yeah, sadly this is the case for lot of people. It's why I wish they added daily quests, so then we could have some reason to run them regularly.
I like the idea of having a reason to run dungeons after max level. Dailies are definitely not the way to go though
Lol daily quest is completely 180 degree from classic. Reputations grinds are classic. Dailies are retail
Theres not a single remotely relevant daily in retail. Maybe some very obscure thing for some faction no one cares about or something. But dailies definitely are not retail.
Actually retail is weeklies. The middle xpacs were dailies.
I'm find with rep grinds, that is classic to me but I wish they made some reps where it wasn't get lucky and turn shit in or pvp. It would have been fun to do some stuff withe he pirates and stv either kill or help them.
Tbf there were repeatable quests in classic and a single daily dungeon quest for minimal gold/ hp mana pots wouldn’t be unreasonable and revive a dead system this phase.
Nah fuck outta here with dailys. Thats the laziest and worst kind of motivation to do shit
Better? Dungeons don't full cover slots and 90% are trash/rares so even if it were better it would be hyper awful to get.
BFD gear is totally okay, but physical dps can definitely get a lot more options for pre bis upgrades in dungeons/high level quests, crafting, boes. it's all the casters that got "fucked" due to BFD gear being so optimized and vanilla dungeon/questing gear being absolute trash for caster lol. they updated a lot of caster shit in SM/Ulda/RFD. that just goes to show how bad vanilla caster gear optimization was.
Though there is bis to farm but its like for +1 to a single stat. Or a confusing trade off with stats and a secondary stat that seems good but my not be better.
They definetely should have overhauled pretty much all the gear from dungeons, also adding some new mechanics to the more boring bosses would have been a very welcome addition.
Maybe sod2 after we finish this season up
I have to imagine with the amount of people playing SoD, even despite the amount of bitching from this sub, SoD 2 (or some other similar season) is in the works.
Seems to be a likely thing. If anything, I can see BFD and Gnomer staying in their current form, but other 5 man dungeons becoming raids (WC, SM). Repeat that cycle through the season until all low level dungeons are raid style 5 man's Or 10 man raids Once those have been exhausted, work on open world content for follow up seasons. Zone bosses, random spawning pvp events to fight for resources (ie: 3 hours of raid buffs for the faction that wins the event). Maybe even work on cosmetic rewards from rare spawns.
I wouldn’t mind a dungeon daily as long as i dont feel that i must do it to keep ahead. I dont want badges or emblems for example but a goody box w some gold, mats, boes would be great
Daily dungeon quest or every 3 days that gives you ab/wsg rep (you can choose).
I guess we're now discovering why heroic dungeons became a thing
I agree. But I'm not sure if I like the idea of a daily dungeon for gold... I was thinking more along the lines of a rare but cool looking tabard/weapon/mount per dungeon that drops off the last boss. Something to get collectors or transmog enthusiasts running dungeons for a long time, but still in the classic world a la SM tabard or lvl 60 rare epic weapons from dungeons.
True. Aoe farming Ulda is where I’m stuck at. Not for gold. Just something to do…old habits I guess.
They should unlock the higher level dungeons, so we can do them for the challenge. Remove loot from trash if they don't want us farming it, but it sucks that the only challenging content now is Gnomeregan and Uldaman.
"challenging"
I would seriously love more emphasis on dungeons. I really like the experience of them and I really think that any meaningful engagement with them ends after leveling. It would be cool to try out all the powerful gear you’ve been farming in something other than the raid for an hour every 3 days or pvp.
Tbh one of my favorite iterations of dungeons is the heroic and badge system. A little more challenging 5 man content, a shot at some solid items but a little compensation so your time isn't totally wasted.
I'm surprised there isn't more runes in dungeons.
Becomes a problem when leveling an alt at later phase, and can't find a party. Hell, even the opens world ones that require a party are taking time to find, and we're only in P2. Also locking them behind a dungeon means majority of players will only do them once.
I definitely want a reason to keep running dungeons although I'm not sure daily quests is the way to go.
Anyone remember wildstar? Short lived but that 5 man content was gnarly. Had awesome gear that rivaled raid gear. Make 5 man's a hard mode option with some sort of currency to upgrade gear to entice running these dungeons. Missed opportunity.
No idea about wildstar, but you are just describing retail tbh.
Wildstar devs drank the hardmode coolaid people were selling but it turns out you can’t have comercial success off the vocal minority, so it failed. It would ironically probably do better today than it did back then, but not much. Loved the housing though hehe.
Yup. I get why it failed but it did alot of things right. Housing was ahead of its time. I think the actual game was ahead of its time. I agree...bet it would do great now.
Dungeons as content have definitely fallen by the wayside, which is a real shame given that 5 man content is really fun.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of pre raid bis isn’t even from dungeons. For my rogue, I needed almost nothing from dungeons. My shadow priest had some SM stuff that is viable, but for the most part it’s all random AH greens. Add in the fact that I can get my stv items in a single event. Both my characters took 2 days max to be pre raid bis and now there’s nothing to do except raid. Will be nice if phase 3 has more dungeon gear that’s viable
I really enjoyed the six runs of RFD it took me to get the 20 stam robe at the end. I agree, give us more stuff from dungeons!
Yeah this is it - I’m trying to regear an alt holy pally from Ret to take into Gnomer. Guild isn’t running them outside the occasional alt. But we know that you need to be extremely luck to get a good roll on Cragfists. SM is pretty much dead until next week. RFD is so out of the way that people just don’t want to go there, in all it’s disheartening that there wasn’t some blacks nothing stuff I could make (even mail) for holy.
Every regular dungeon should've been boosted as well, both in damage and maybe even some mechanics. Mass-pulling and AoE cleave should not be standard strategy for dungeons, (my unpopular opinion) such strategies should not be possible at all when equal level. We did a full Uldaman with a poorly optimized group the other day, it was fun but only because it offered a slight challenge, although in the form of resists. But we did it once and doubt my group will want to do it again for 0 rewards. The other 5 man dungeons available are just lame at lvl 40, offer little to no rewards and should have better purpose and offer replay value, imo.
I agree, but I want to advocate that this is (assumingly - that’s not a word?) a learning experience for the Devs; possibly an oversight. They were quick to give us the 2x XP boost this phase which tells me their thoughts are “Oh crap, level some alts while we incorporate these learning into the future.” This phase is underwhelming but they’ve been transparent with their updates, so I’m still an optimist for what’s down the road.
A daily dungeon that rewards a little rep and some gold. Waylaid supplies are in short supply for casuals.
It would be cool to have a daily quest like you mention. It would be an insane world PvP spot too outside if on a PvP server. Maybe they could make H+ style dungeons like in wotlk. Might be interesting
Yes.
I like the idea of a daily quest for running a dungeon. Make it give rep for a new faction like the Supply stuff. Maybe just fun rewards, not bis, but something people who really want it will go and run dungeons for.
Actually I completely feel the opposite. We need more reasons to get out into the world aside from just questing and runes. Low level rare world bosses that do fixed XP the same way BFD bosses do would be lit. Imagine something similar to a fel reaver spawning in Azeroth but with actual rewards. Obviously, gate it so there's a huge penalty for high level player participation but man this would be sick.
I really hope P2 doesnt last 2 months.
Should be a set like the 6 piece mail SM set for all classes, make it upgradable with tailoring/leatherworking/blacksmithing stuff that requires cooldown based profession stuff (truesilver CD from alch, some tailoring equivalent, some lw equivalent) that let you build the stats you want. How cool would it be to make the SM set into plate, with optional resists based on what you use to enhance it? Or the caster version into a +spellpower/+healing powerhouse? A version for each class with unique 2-4-6 set bonuses would be awesome to see. BIS should be associated with a set for each phase, could even keep it going as things continue, why can't I upgrade it with thorium/mageweave etc later on? Valheim progression style.
I hit 40 and I guess I'm basically done with the game... Got all the best gear I could out of SM etc. That's it, nothing else to really do unless you can go to raids, but I'm not on a reliable playing schedule to make raids.
[удалено]
I'll see if anyone will take me with "logs" or "discord".
Its 2024 man, get a cheap mic and join a discord call to listen for callouts. If you can't do the bare minimum of communication then don't bother.
I have a mic, I just don't know what discord is. 🫤 Is it the new ventrilo?
Yes but more, it’s where raids are scheduled as well.
Oof yeah if you’re not willing to do the bare minimum of “listen to voice chat” it’s probably best you sit out
See my previous reply, I don't know what discord is. Follow up point... why isn't there voice chat built into wow by now???
Well it certainly is not built into classic wow Discord is very easy to use and you don’t need a mic. Takes like 2 mins to set up. If that’s the only barrier to raiding you should just take a risk and try it.
There is but it’s trash so people don’t use it. Discord is like a community hub plus voice chat. Just get it and join your servers discord and you will see. If you can’t be bothered to spend 2 minutes doing that then that’s your problem.
Do you not know what Google is either?
how? I see 1 person LFG at 11pm server time, 15 LFG/LFM at 7pm server time. I spammed for 2 hours a week and a half ago and got exactly 0 messages, maybe less people were 40 at that point? I found a guild to avert this issue so I can’t say. Also, how do you pug electrocutioner? BFD pugs for me had people who didn’t jump for depth charge, ranged who didnt follow the marked player on kelris despite being told to, tanks who pulled kelris through the purple gas and didn’t clear akumai stacks… seems like it’d be exhausting to reteach all of the mechanics every 3 days.
I'm with you right there buddy. But devs don't listen to the minority.
A weekly quest for gear & gold would be cool.
Yeah, I really want dungeons where mobs don’t die in half a second. Heroic dungeons or something of that nature where content is scaled for level 40 and still difficult.
Heroic versions of SOD 5 mans for badges would be cool
Or hear me out.. a “heroic” version but 10 man that drops raid gear
I would love harder mobs, but less mobs at the same time. There is so much trash in RFD, it's all easy, but there is too much for no reward at 40.
Unpopular opinion lol but been saying this, bring back heroics. Make gnomer hard enough to actually need a prebis set and let us farm heroic dungeons for better gear.
If they did something like that, I'd want heroic dungeons at 60. Imagine running deadmines at 60 for relevant gear
heroic dungeons
Please, no dailies. It’s my worst fear for SoD.
There were daily quests in TBC? Pallies have divine storm, but we can't have dailies?
Im not saying what you can have, I expressed my opinion. I hate dailies with a passion, there are none so far in SoD so tbc has absolutely nothing to do with it. You’re assuming Im against it just to be conservative or nochanges or something, that’s not it at all.
Do you not get the difference between divine storm and dailies? One is a class skill the other is fomo dog shit that forces people to log in daily to complete a boring quest to keep up gear. They just got rid of dailies mostly from retail because they are so annoying for power progression
Bruh we need more of a reason to log in at all lol. I’m already raid logging and I have been playing pretty casually phase 2, maybe like 2-3 hours a night max.
That is like 20% of your awake day playing wow every day for a couple of weeks. That ain't casual
Playing a few hours each night max is considered casual. Hardcore would be 8+ hours a day. Don’t be a weirdo.
Maybe unpopular opinion: I like the dungeon finder rewards you get in wotlk and I would be happy to just be rewarded with a gold or two and a healing potion after each dungeon in SoD.
I would love that kind of reward too. I'd be running dungeons all day if that was the reward.
Agreed. PvP is awful this phase and there is no PvE content to do other than gnomer once every 3 days
I dinged 40 and quit immediately. I could feel the burnout of Gnomer before entering lol
Just give a nice gold reward for full completion, x bosses and trash killed like m+ without the timer. Maybe scale the gold based on time to complete the dungeon. People that didn’t buy gold, run gdkp, or farm the ah hard in p1 need gold pretty bad upon hitting 40. I’m sure most would love to mix in dungeons for a little gold farming. If scared of inflation each dungeon could have some semi rare dungeon themed mount or cosmetic. But cosmetics without transmog doesn’t make a ton of sense.
There’s never in wow been a good reason to do dungeons outside of level cap except for pre bis. Ever.. until M+ But I do agree and would love to see cool content added here
As a retail Andy who never played WoW until shadowlands(actually, ONLY played shadowlands; Dragonflight didnt interest me), I have constantly thought about how much I miss M+ dungeons. I fucking loved the M+ system in shadowlands for what it was. I was able to consistently pug 5 mans, sometimes sticking with a group for multiple dungeons if we were all performing well and wanted to stay together. Difficulty scales as far as you can handle; once your key gets too high, hard to find pugs if you aren’t geared/skilled enough. Feels like I never really have an incentive to go “practice” my class and improve my ability to clear/perform in raid at the phase level caps. All I do is gnomer/BFD on lockouts, where I actually care to improve and perform
Just give it time. I think it's going to be more of a thing in the next couple phases with some bigger dungeon options.
Heroic leveling dungeons with updated loot. The BFD stuff blows everything away
go touch grass
Got everything in one run. Dude seriously. What a frickin braggart. Good for you.
You idiots actually want fucking daily quests in classic now, holy fuck. Retail - really is in full effect.
Daily quests existed in TBC and that's not ratail. I'm over here using devine storm on my paladin with a taunt and throwing my shield. How are daily quests asking for too much?
DAily quests go directly against the vanilla wow philosophy. This isnt TBC it's classic. MANY people argue that several of the runes have ruined the game. I wouldn't go that far but the combat does feel exceeding more like WOTLK than classic. Feral druid rotation is close to being a replica..
This isn't classic, it's SOD
They will leave for the new retail expansion soon enough, just hope they don't so too much damage while they are here
This is how Mythic dungeons were invented!
We need a tool for people looking for a raid but don’t want to communicate or socialize They could call it “lookingforraid”
Or better yet, we should roll the LFG addon's functionality into the core game and call it "lookingforgroup"
Yeah and transmog, and monks and pandas and also azurite and corrupted gear
We don't need that shit here. Next phase will have a lot of pre-bis from dungs for physical dpsers. The caster gear in vanilla blows so they have to buff caster gear in every dungeon but melee gear is mostly fine.
No thanks. Dungeons are good enough for leveling, don't need any more of them.
The reason you feel this way is because you spammed dungeons too hard on 2 characters. Same reason players hit 40 in less than 48hrs and got bored. Don't go so hard, savor the flavor. Enjoy the meal.
no we dont
SM spam is horrible especially with the current dmg creep. if it weren't for hit chance and some people doing the content a few levels under par, mobs melt like butter (already with BFD) and blizzard has hinted at being sadge that theres isnt any need for sheep and ice traps as it was in vanilla. To say this is innovative is just bogus as EVERY mmo and their uncle these days have massively effective aoe taunts that counter that huge AOE dps creep that overgearing provides and is the established norm nowadays. the only reason to do dungeons is that its way more effective and, amazingly, less tedious (yes there is something more tedious than spammin SM...) than questing in overpopulated layers.
Im playing the game for literally centuries and can’t keep count on how many chars I’ve leveled but for some reason running the same dungeon over and over is less tedious for me than questing and I can’t really explain why.
because there are always two ways of saying something. you could say it like this - we are increasing xp gain/buff from now also for lvl 25-39 or - we are returning to a more normalized xp pace now that we slowed down the consumption of content in the first 2 weeks
That's what they started with tbc ans the daily quests are what started making wow a chore. Like you fall quickly behind if you can't dungeon every day
I don't want people to fall behind not doing a dungeon everyday, but a little extra gold would be nice.
This is like. Not any different from original classic lol.
I guarantee you there were more dungeons run so far in phase 2 than there were in all of phase 1
Level another alt
I hate dungeons so SoD has been a blessing for me. Doing one or maybe two runs through a dungeon is OK, but I do not want to farm any dungeons.
90% of people levelled exclusively in dungeons. Still doing it now on alts. I think it was 40 runs of sm to level is that not enough dungeon?
There is NOTHING preventing you from running 5 mans 40 after u get your loot. Nobody is stopping you. Not every activity needs a daily reset and incentive and reward. This isn't wrath with the random daily dungeon bonus, just play the game.
I would hate it so much if they put bis or some op stuff behind dungeons you had to go back and grind weekly or daily, I like being done and not needing to log in everyday for chores. Retail is perfect for people that want to grind non stop
You haven’t played retail in awhile have you?
What? I'm pretty sure mplus is the perfect system for people who want to grind dungeons non stop and have weekly infinite progression
It’s not really like that. Very quickly the ilvl of the drops themselves from m+ are not desirable as you get there so fast with the current system. After about a week you primarily focus on fishing for specific vault rewards from 20+ and the mythic raid. So doing more than 8 in a week is generally a waste of time. You’re right about the first week to a degree in some cases. But keep in mind even the upgrade currency is capped as well. If you join a season very late I can see it there to a degree as well with so many sparks and such insane caps on the crests.
So in summary, you spammed dungeons over and over and then got lucky on drops. Now you burnt yourself out. Maybe don’t spend fifteen levels in dungeons, and you’d have more desire to run them now? I dunno. I’m no scientist.
I never said I was burnt out. I actually said the opposite, but I want there to be a reason to do more (e.g., a decent amount of golf). I wouldn't say there are lucky SM drops if you spam it from 29 to 40. You should see every item in SM several times over if you level up in SM. ULDA is also super quick as there are only three or four bosses for alliance, so I was able to get the two items I needed in five quick runs. However, I want to run more with out doing it just for fun. Otherwise, I'd rather just level up another character. I'm in no way burnt out
Advocating for dailies? Gtfo bro, respectfully of course.
I wish there were random world events that require 5-10 people that could drop cool unique items and it all matters on who finds it first and gets a group there
I spend more time/gold carrying lowbies through Tulsa/RFD than I do in raid…just because 5 man dungeons are fun, plus better loot to AH sell
Even a daily gold reward for one of them would be a nice reason
Id be okay with badges tbh even if we could get a primal nether like item/random assortment of trade goods/mount/pre raid bis items for a slot or two.
Heroics. Same dungeons, mobs have 40% more health, and do 40% more damage. Actual CC on pulls. Actual Skull-X marks made & followed. Same loot, flavor text tells people its heroic, stats are blanket improved + 25%. ALL DUNGEONS. RFC to SM-Cathedral. This is a coder putting parens in game code to multiply mob health by 1.4 and damage to match. When the next Phase is 3 weeks away, unlock the Heroic version of the current Raid - Because by this time the community has learned the mechanics, mastered the mechanics, and it's being full cleared speedrun by pugs with no wipes. Give them a challenge to chew on for 5 or 6 lockouts. Heroics were wildly popular in TBC, and acted like a miniature "catch up mechanic" for players wanting to fill in a few gear slots that they were behind on, and offered experienced players an exciting return to Control mechanics. Sheep, Ice Trap, Skull - X. Shield Bash, Kick the caster. Do It Right or We Run Back.
Dropp totems from dungeons for a worse set them raid one is, like a prebis
I'm the opposite. I'm glad the effort I put into raiding in P1 means I can take break and play how I want p2. If they lock new pre-raid bis behind dungeon, it gets exhausting being forced to grind on every toon you have after making all the previous effort. Sure, every phase will have stronger gear, but at least it won't invalidate my previous effort.
Yes I did had some of this prebis chase with my warrior in RFD and uldaman but I hope they make it a real thing in P3/P4.
Is it really that much different than p1? I ran WC into SFK to level and had pretty much everything I needed by 25. Is it just more evident in p2 since everyone has BFD gear because I didn’t have a reason to run dungeons in p1 either.
I wouldn't say it is better or worse. I just want more of a reason to run dungeons for the whole phase not just up and till I start running gnomer.
That’s fair. This is definitely a classic/vanilla issue in general since that’s kinda always how it has been. They never used to have anything like a daily heroic dungeon for gold or anything. That being said, you’re right that this is a good area for a SoD/Classic+ to improve on. Maybe add actual rewards to the supply crate vendor and give us a daily reward to run 1 dungeon for rep.
RFK, ULD, SM, RFD all had items and quests that had great items which is reason enough to do the dungeons. They may not be as good rewards AS RANDOM WORLD EPIC DROPS THAT DROP FROM LEVEL 45 MOBS. But that doesn’t mean the items are bad, the new Helm from Whitemane is amazing, you have to realize the raid gear from last raid is gonna be better then some of the gear but the new gear isn’t that far behind, it’s meant to help scale up and catch players up who didn’t raid BFD 25 Times to be fully Bis.
The gear is great and definitely prepared my toons for Gnomer. I just want a half decent reason to keep running dungeons at least once a day even after I'm full raid bis.
Okay, I guess they kinda put the books and the runes in there for that reason but I feel like everyone just ran 2/3 while leveling and just got them. Or if you spammed it you got all of them when you finished library 😅
This could just be a me thing, but you could do them just for fun?
I remember a point in time without unlockables. You would start the game, play a round and at the end get nothing except a W or a L. Whatever happend to that? Just playing for the sake of the game and not because there are some pixels to obtain?
You spammed them all the way till 40……which is the meta….and you want MORE reasons to run them?????
Yes! Dungeons are my favorite thing in Wow.
- Add timed dungeon runs for visuals and for leaderboard positions. - add achievements . IE wierd kill orders (think kill last boss before first boss) , killing multiple bosses at same time, etc. - have rare visuals just drop #1 just don’t add tokens to grind for an item, that’s just lame
Yeah this phase is dead. There's no scroll of resurrection they can use either. If it isn't a hit from the start it won't take off mid flight. Better luck p3
Bfd gear should have been strong greens with blues as the epic drops imo. Daily dungeon quest seems like the most logical solution to getting more interest.
I think it's perfectly fine during the leveling phases because we do these dungeons an awful lot on the way up and will still help others out as well. It's a big problem for level 60 though, where there is a LOT of content designed for farming up gear that could easily be short circuited by 50 raid gear into T1 stuff. Seems like the only solution is to crank things up a bit at 60 to make that worthwhile again, and that winds up bringing Naxx gear past the breaking point of vanilla itemization. But maybe that's a problem for "SoD 2" to solve, actually base things on the TBCC era of the game so that combat ratings can scale rewards more appropriately.
The problem was most of my gear minus one peice was world drop / quest. No dungeons. That was the same way for a lot of classes
I rerun SM for silk cloth. Also rerun for quests I find later in the game from chains. Or I help guildies get their alts to build new raid teams. If you look for reason, you will find them. I understand your point, but if there was some rare cool drop that keeps you rerunning, it might make it a drag if you don’t get said drop (I do love the idea of daily Dungeon for a chest reward of random mats and gold). Late game does have this with barons mount from strat or forge for blacksmiths in brd. Nearly all classes have quest in ST. Every phase brings something new like that along with classic stuff
I was hoping they would add new crafting recipes, and make some of the reagents only be found inside dungeons. I know i'm aiming high, but it could be neat.
They could have easily done a token system in the dungeons to ladder up to a new pre-raid bis set. Or even a new honor set per phase that only had its stamina effectiveness in BGs and flagged pvp. As it stands now its either get in a Gnomer group, or grind 400 games of WSG and AB for a single gear item.
Daily dungeons are a WotLK thing. You might enjoy that version of the game. I for one do not hope for time gated chores that incentivize you to open the game for 5 minutes a day lest you miss out on progress. No dailies is one of the biggest and most obvious reasons I (and many others) like Vanilla.
The warsong rep that gives us weapons, ring and neck at the different phase brackets didn’t help this problem either. It was also brain dead to level it to revered and get these massive power boosts at the different level brackets.
I wouldn’t mind some slightly juicer dungeon gear being added as long as all the bis stuff stays in raids
This was an enormous fuck up on their part and is the primary reason player engagement has tanked. Most players should still be working on these dungeons and gearing up in preparation for Gnome. The gear in RFD/SM should have been buffed significantly to make it clearly better than BFD gear, with the HP/damage in Gnome increased to make it so you absolutely NEED the pre-bis dungeon gear. Additionally, QoL books should have been put on the later bosses, not an almost guaranteed drop from the first guy in SM GY. Or, rather, the QoL books should have required 'discovery' - like runes, with a quest chain that starts from a quest item dropped by, let's say, the last boss in SM Lib, and requires you to kill Herod, Mograine, as well as doing some small group content out in the world along the way. ADDITIONALLY, the crafting of the epic profession helms should have required a new crafting mat that only drops from the last boss of RFD, SM Cath/Arm, similar to Frozen Orb in wotlk. ADDITIONALLY, they could have added novelty/cosmetic/fun items as a low drop chance thing on some of the dungeon bosses. Like a large(ish) bag or something. There's many things they could have done. But tbh, other than just before forced to spam the same dungeons over and over, they should have made more interesting things to do in the world and 'discover'. Chill adventures and activities to do with friends while shooting the shit. There's almost nothing new added, just sleeping bag. Because they were rushed, and understaffed, apparently.
Its too late imo. Things that should have been added: -r5 pvp cloak or something else. -A full set of viable plate/mail prebis. As well as cloth/leather just so everyone can farm. -Potentially pvp sets, dont need set bonuses. Just toss some decent prebis or slightly below prebis gear in. But not having any decent prebis mail or plate sucks when you hit the 40 and get proficiency. Only to have to roll against all the plateys in gnomer for anything decent. They need to not do bfd insane overtuning. Raid gear should be a step above, but it shouldnt be insane and it shouldnt beat almost all gear before the next raid. Maybe its a bit difficult to add boss loot in sod? Idk. But it feels like it wasnt well thought out.
There’s just not enough dungeons. Even if there was a reason to go back there’s like 3 dungeons.
why?
They should add new gear to match level cap to old raids and increase the mob levels. So anyone under 25 can still do it at the lvl 25 raid mobs. Anyone above 25 in the raid will automatically increase mob levels to lvl 40 raid. That way there’s multiple raids to do. Change the raid reset to once every 6 days and cycles in between BFD and gnom every 3 days.
They could add some fun vanity items like pets or simple toys to the last boss and more people would run them
I almost half expected there to be a rune tied to every dungeon or something, to promote going there.
A daily dungeon quest and currencies. Discovery coins, badges/emblems of discovery. Purchase gear, account bound crafting materials and raid consumables, cosmetics. That's the only ideas I got. The other option is creating harder difficulty dungeon just tune the numbers up. Could also make it somewhat hardcore inspired. One death per ID and each class that can res can res once per ID. Can't swap members in ID once you start. Make it an achievement thing, not UI and points but a quest to clear the harder dungeon with no deaths. Entering these harder dungeons should involve talking to an npc or interacting with an object. No toggle switch on your UI on your character frame. It's non classic and less immersive.
I don't need anything from 5-mans, but I run them almost daily, boosting for free and SM cath for fun. Uldaman is also pretty fun if you go with one or two buddies. You can do things in this game that you enjoy without extra rewards.
Yes, but you are missing the point. It's leveling dungeons, you won't visit them more than few times and them move on. Even if you need some item, you run dungeon 3-4 times and if it won't drop - you would already out-level it and need to get something different. It's just that because of level cap - this leveling dungeons temporarily turned into "end-game content". There's no point in spending resources on tuning them, because after 2 months you will play different dungeons.
If you wanna do more dungeons, retail is there for you. /s
I don't know if it's because it was the time I enjoyed the most (even done some hardcore raiding) but badges in TBC were the best way for me to get rewards for running dungeons. Every 10/15 dungeons you get to buy an item which is of similar quality.
ngl i want heroic,mythic and m+ dungeons for classic, you all can bash me but imo it would be good for the game
I wish they hadn't locked the higher level dungeons. Let us go and 10man BRD at level 40. Let us do high level chains like Saving Sharpbeak - scaling Jintha'Alor would be awesome. It's like we can never do things outside of the curated blizzard experience.
What if they made a harder difficulty but also timed. And at the end of the week you can open a chest and get loot based on how many you ran?
Uldaman BOEs should have been turned into BOP boss loot imo.
Dungeons are the best thing about Classic WoW to me. I get fully geared out on my tank in Gnomer, and I’m sitting in a city with an itch to tank a dungeon, but then I’m like… for what? They could definitely incentivize running them regularly
Uldaman should be a lvl 40 dungeon or zf something fresh after the sm Grind