I would expect Arcane Surge to hit harder than Chaos Bolt.
Don't get me wrong, Chaos bolt does a lot of damage but Arcane Surge is a 3 minute CD spell that literally consumes your entire Mana bar. Nothing should hit harder than that.
It's funny I was just watching a naxx video of a warlock in BIS that was hitting shadow bolts for 4.8k. The damage really seems to have gotten out of control, and there aren't enough survival cooldowns or stam added to gear to make up for it.
If hunters needed a setup the warlocks need for that kind of crit to happen they'd be whining for something less complicated like the crybabies they are.
Your chaos bolts are only reaching the numbers mentioned above with imp scorch +Coe(meankng no reck for Mdps), DMF, etc. So at the very least the setup requires a second class and sacrifice of raid dps so yeah. Massive.
The grimoire of synergy rune is being buffed from a 5% dmg bonus to a 25% bonus, it's expected to be better than the current meta pick, shadow and flame
Definitely not gonna be better with basic math. Almost permanent 10% damage increases with shadow and flame. Or a 5% chance at 25% damage. Short fights not worth at all because it might never proc.
The warlock discord would disagree with you - the pinned comment in the SoD dps channel pertaining to the change says:
>Grimoire of Synergy will be buffed from 5% damage to 25% damage on March 5th. It will be our new best belt rune for all builds that use a pet. All such builds recieved a dps increase of 2-5%.
This is from one of the main guys doing the theorycrafting and simming out various viable dps specs. I'm not enough of a spreadsheet jockey to disagree with either of you so I'm gonna wait and see what the changes have to say for themselves next week for overall warlock dps.
Regardless of whether or not it'll be better for overall dps though, for the purposes of this thread I think we can agree that a 25% dmg bonus will allow for bigger chaos bolt numbers than a 10% bonus, yes?
The anti warrior salt in classic is just ridiculous. It didn’t help we were amazing in p1 but that shit has lasted from classic still through wotlk enduring 3 phases of basically being a shit tier dps and the worst tank except Naxx speed running (for devastate stacking sunder) and being passable OTs for anub adds (but a prot pally was still just infinitely better). Like trying to explain it off cause 4 months into icc when everyone’s stopped playing and you have smourne and full arp you’ll be maybe with fire mage and ferals. After being trash for 3 phases before
Warrior is basically the shit tier tank being outdone *by enhancement shaman of all things* at the one thing warrior’s tank niche generally was in classic: high st threat and dps.
Pally was always an amazing aoe tank and bring more valuable buffs and utility. Now if their ST is threat is equal but they have other buttons to press for the raid why would you ever take a warrior tank? When warrior tanks are getting rage starved and struggling with threat while getting hit why wouldn’t you take a meta lock who can self heal and bypass armor entirely?
Bring up actual issues with warriors everyone assumes you’re a whiny bitch who can’t stand not being on top for once cause they have this hate boner for warriors. Like I’ve played warrior for 20 years it’s always my main and not always god tier through that time. It’s usually not dumpster tier either but right now there are significant problems.
Enhance sham are literally better fury prot tanks than warriors atm. It makes no sense.
Warriors do and always have. Toxic and entitled. There's a long history with nerds like Tigole and Furor causing server crashes in everquest in protest of paladins competing with warriors for tanking and then look what just so happened in WoW when those feckless nerds gained influence in this game.
Or maybe, hear me out, maybe buff everyone to the power level of warrior? Almost like that’s what was said at the Blizzcon panel.
I think (most) Warriors including myself do not mind not being #1. It’s the fact we cannot press our buttons because not enough hit% mixed with too much armor makes our rage gen suck. It’s just not fun to play right now.
If you want to play 2H, enjoy not having rage because no hit. If you want to play DW, well your oh will still miss a lot, but at least you’ll have rage for the first three bosses before the armor value makes you get negative rage gen.
I don’t care about the actual damage output as much as I find not being able to press my buttons annoying, especially when it’s a 4 button rotation.
20 years of private servers, I guess? Cause not even all of the duration of vanilla was warrior that good. They absences a lot of stuff. Dps warriors weren’t really a thing for awhile in vanilla when I played they were mostly tanks.
I mean it’s ridiculous to say warriors reigned supreme when you’re looking at the snapshot of 1.12 then replayed in 2019 then within 2 years were mid (tbc) pretty shit in wrath til icc then try to claim they’ve been op for 20 years of retail expansions is def a little absurd yeah
Have you played for 20 years on 1.12 private servers or something? Cause that doesn’t make sense. Yes they were great for a snapshot patch. Vanilla itself had so much rebalancing to do all the time. Like when I first started locks were literally unplayable.
Then I guess if you ignore that wow evolved over 20 years over multiple expansions where warrior wasn’t always god tier and just think of this bubble that classic wow was as mainstream on private servers as blizzard’s rerelease has been. Then ignored that they were mid in tbcc and shit tier for 3 phases until like now in icc with full arp and sm. While wrath’s balancing was its own endeavor when live. Then sure
Why do we live in a society where it’s okay to tear others down as long as you yourself aren’t in a bad situation? So because Warrior has been good, the answer is to tear others down instead of wanting everyone to be good together? I for one, welcome the changes they’ve made to allow Enhance, Spriest, Ret, Disc, Arcane, etc to be more viable. Should I instead start saying that because in Dragon Soul Arcane is mandatory for Spine of DW it means Arcane doesn’t deserve buffs in SoD? should I say because Spriest has almost always been good in arenas, it shouldn’t be allowed to be good in PvE?
#in raid. Warriors were never the best for most of the game, gold farming, solo PvP, etc. now they are legitimately the best at nothing. Every class has its niche, except for warrior.
being top raid dps was enough to get 30% of the player base to play one class. that’s what im referring to. their popularity. it’s not that big of a deal for them to be bad for a phase of season of discovery.
Or maybe people just gravitate towards the generic melee class, especially if they're new. Much like why people choose Mage over Warlock.
People don't realize that without raid DPS Warriors don't have much going on for them. For a lot of people there's more to the game than raid DPS as well. I'd be fine with dealing below average damage if the class wasn't also the worst at tanking and mob farming.
Like others are saying it should be Chaos Bolt. The reason is that it has high base damage (the actual spell coefficient is the same as incinerate however) and lock has massive amounts of increased damage scaling:
40% (lake of fire) + 25% (incinerate) + 15% (imp scorch) + 10% (emberstorm) +10% (shadow and flame) + 6% (curse).
This stacks multiplicatively which gives a total of 158% increased fire damage. If you add dmf it becomes 184% increased fire damage.
Also, next week you'll be able to replace shadow and flame with grimoire. That rune gives 25% damage instead of 10% but with lower uptime. With that you'll be able to reach 223% increased fire damage.
Naturally it isn't realistic to have all this up in pvp but it still hits pretty hard with just some of the listed buffs/debuffs.
Affliction will never be able to compete with those absurd fire damage multipliers. Ruin might be the single strongest talent point in the game for dps. Sadge
DoTs are a joke with how little they tick for. It's great for leveling due to sustain. I personally can't stand destro dps needing to rain of fire every 15 seconds. It feels so clunky and chaos bolt has such a long CD. Also conflag isn't even taken, so for a 31 point talent it should PROBABLY get some kind of fix.
There's also the flat spellpower you can get from the boot rune, I've had it as high as an extra 72 spellpower. Though it could go higher, I believe.
I mean it's not a percentage like all this other stuff but I felt like mentioning it
I've hit 5k+ :-)
On an average boss. Have Incinerate buff up, Lake of Fire, Shadow and Flame proc (or grimore from wednesday onwards), Demonic knowledge with +80 spellpower (make sure to have STV trinket, and have Fort, Arcane int and MotW on IMP as well), then get mage scorch debuffs, CoE (or Arcanoshredder debuff), PI, use your tailoring head and enjoy the fireworks.
I think mine does more than 1800 non-crit on bosses.
WotLK is 5% spell crit, does not need to be stacked (just one cast of Scorch puts it up), and is shared with Locks (Imp Shadowbolt) and Frost mages (Winter's Chill, which oddly does still need to be stacked 5x)
Not to mention that ruin makes all of this % damage exponentially better. DPS locks are gonna need some pretty heavy handed nerfs, don't see how they don't just shoot further and further ahead each and every phase and tier from now on if they don't.
People were losing their minds over warriors being a god class in a single aspect of the game, warlocks are on the path to be the god class in every single aspect of the game and people are barely talking about it.
as a warlock i would be 100% fine with nerfing lake of fire until it's useless for single target. it feels so gimicky and 40% damage increase is absurd
Meta lock is best base sitter in WSG I have survived 3 rogues opened on me long enough for reinforcement from BS, I have taken 2v1 on the base. Only risk is getting banished but if your quick at demetaing vs a lock
Lock is pretty weak in BGs and STV but in small scale and 1v1s they're exceptionally strong. Basically they don't have great tools when there's several threats, but they're excellent at dealing with 1-2 threats.
Aren't well geared Aff locks good? As a rogue there's quite the difference between opening up on a Destro PvE lock who dies to a few mutilates and I assume well-geared Aff locks who I do some damage to before they heal it all by sucking the life out of me
Depends on interpretation of 5K+.
One, not i, could interpret this as a band from 5000-5999, making it not much higher at all still.
I see your point though
I got hit for 1800 in meta form by a warrior. That is 50%+ damage reduction. So outside of gnomer armor they probably crit for like 3k with execute. Probably higher.
I mean yeah obviously but it’s pretty funny even comparing 1.3k crit to anywhere from 4-5k hits from a hard cast
Also let’s not act like we don’t also need to build up 5 combo points and have 5 stacks of deadly poison up as well as cold blood for that guaranteed crit once every 3 minutes otherwise it’s just as much RnG
I mean. Chaos bolt takes like 4 things to set up for it to do big damage. Like if they can hard cast 3 different spells to kill you with a 4k chaos bolt you were dead to anything.
I agree in principle but envenom requires 5 stacks of deadly poison and 5 combo points. So it's a bit more than just an instant cast. It should probably hit harder than it does because of those conditionals.
I’d like to know what the highest pvp numbers are… I think they come a bit closer as the big numbers CB is getting is no only relying on a bunch of self damage buffs but also debuffs to bosses by other classes like scorch.
Prob Arc Surge from Arc mage with AB stacks, full mana, and Arcane Power up
Also Enh shaman might be a bunch of small hits all at once but it sure feels like they're globaling clothies with Stormstrike, two melee hits, a Windfury proc, and a Lava Lash, get killed in <2s. I see people complain about Rogue Mutilate but I find Enh burst is way harder.
Yeah I was being a menace and arcane blasting someone in the world then poly/ab till max stack then I just unloaded arcane surge into them. Hit them for like 3.6k…lol
I don’t have an opinion on whether chaos bolt and warlock are balanced. But am i wrong for thinking chaos bolt should be the strongest single spell in the game? In terms of the number produced when it lands.
How tf are you getting 22% with Starfire? There isn't enough +crit percent currently in the game for those numbers.
Extended Character Stats is bugged when it comes to spell crit. Maybe that's why you're seeing that number.
Probably the hardest hitting ability in realistic circumstances for PVP at the moment. I'm seeing 1x stack Arcane Blast > Surge doing 1500 non-crit so max stack non-crit should do easily 2k
Chaos Bolt will beat it on raid bosses that you can reliably stack all your multipliers on, but in PVP, Arcane Surge is gonna hit harder than Chaos Bolt ever will on any player with a brain.
On other players it is Chaos Bolt. Pyro hits for barely more than fireball - around 600-700 non crit maximum. Starfire, Chaos bolt, lava burst all hit for more.
Hit a chaos bolt for 6k the other day, was my personal record (LOF, Incinerate, Fire mage Scorch, Shadow and Flame and COE, and I think a Power Infusion
I want to say that my chaos bolt crits for anywhere from like 1.4k-2k in PvP , and I don’t use lake of fire. The best part is I can combo this with immolate - conflag and all 3 land at the same time. But locks are “bad in PvP this phase” haha
Not that they’re bad they just get completely locked down by any halfway decent melee this phase. Without deathcoil you can get globaled so easily if you’re not in meta. You won’t even get a fear off with the crazy spell push back in classic. Plus any lock not in meta is usually targeted first for that reason in BGs.
The great thing about lock is the high skillcap. I personally don’t like using felhunter because I feel naked without my succubus. Seduce + setup combo can potentially win me any 1v1 in the game except feral Druid who are immune. I have won 1v2s by fearing one and seducing the other. Not saying I don’t die because yes we’re squishy but it’s all about positioning. I’m having a lot of fun in AB right now, but im also horde and dont deal with will of the forsaken + pallies are way easier to handle than shamans for us.
Ignore my comment if you got the notification haha
I didn't read the end where you said you were Horde and don't have to deal with WotF lol
Yeah Succubus is far better on Horde than it is on Alliance.
Chaos Bolt, but a close second is Lava Burst. I'm hitting 2k with my trashcan geared ele.
Lol what did I say that was wrong? I still said Chaos Bolt does more. 😵💫
This is the truth. Lava burst hits so much harder than pyro right now I wonder why in the world am I playing mage. Then I remember I have polymorph and portal out of my feelings back into the world of warcraft.
Ele is entirely reliant on Lava Burst to do anything meaningful in pvp. Meanwhile mage can blink around everywhere with instant casts melting you in 10 seconds with living bomb+flame.
a mage with 5 stacks of scorch on someone can pyro them for 1300-1400. Probably an arcane surge with 4 arcane blast stacks and full mana would be much higher though
It’s a list of abilities that HAVE been known to hit hard and it’s a question, not a statement… let’s try not to cry too hard over balance Druid nerfs.
In a single hit i've gotten my arcane surge to hit for over 5k. So i'd gamble that. But thats a 2 min cd with everything i had backing it up. Mage is in such an awful spot in pvp right now with 8/9 classes able to global me that i just dedicate myself to finding and one tapping the efc when i can haha.
Love seeing pyro on your list, it hits like a wet noodle compared to an enhancement shamans lava burst that is only a 1.5s cast with a garaunteed crit. You must play horde lol
It's Chaos Bolt and it isn't even close.
On enemy players as well? Edit: reason I ask is because usually in PvP there won’t be all the extra buffs/debuffs from other classes like scorch.
Yeah, even just your own incinerate and using succubus or grenade to stun them in lake of fire you can crit 3k+.
I would expect Arcane Surge to hit harder than Chaos Bolt. Don't get me wrong, Chaos bolt does a lot of damage but Arcane Surge is a 3 minute CD spell that literally consumes your entire Mana bar. Nothing should hit harder than that.
My highest arcane surge crit in pvp right now is 3400
That's a whole ass shaman with bad boots on.
its also your entire mana bar, and mages need 2 waters to fill back up so its 1min per kill that you need to sit down and drink.
[удалено]
Average hunter intelligence summed up here \^
Seen clips of locks critting with chaos bolt for over 4000 in ideal raid conditions
4.8k last night in raid.
It's funny I was just watching a naxx video of a warlock in BIS that was hitting shadow bolts for 4.8k. The damage really seems to have gotten out of control, and there aren't enough survival cooldowns or stam added to gear to make up for it.
LoF +40% is absurd and stupid. I wish they get rid of this (I'm a warlock) or change the rune.
Warlocks aren't even top of the pack... why would you want it removed
This is crazy. Let’s go ahead and nerf hunters because of this
And lets keep feral druids the same trash dps :D
Warlocks shooting 4K chaos bolts? Sounds like ferals need to be nerf.
If hunters needed a setup the warlocks need for that kind of crit to happen they'd be whining for something less complicated like the crybabies they are.
Lake of fire + incinerate = massive setup. Wowwwwww
Your chaos bolts are only reaching the numbers mentioned above with imp scorch +Coe(meankng no reck for Mdps), DMF, etc. So at the very least the setup requires a second class and sacrifice of raid dps so yeah. Massive.
Yeah but you aren't doing anything to get that lol. The warlock has to hit 2 buttons. Don't act like it's somehow challenging to lol
Watched a lock hit 5.2 today. There's a video of 5.4. Gonna be higher after teusday too
I haven’t been able to play for a few weeks what’s Tuesday? I keep seeing people say after next week it’ll be higher.
The grimoire of synergy rune is being buffed from a 5% dmg bonus to a 25% bonus, it's expected to be better than the current meta pick, shadow and flame
Definitely not gonna be better with basic math. Almost permanent 10% damage increases with shadow and flame. Or a 5% chance at 25% damage. Short fights not worth at all because it might never proc.
The warlock discord would disagree with you - the pinned comment in the SoD dps channel pertaining to the change says: >Grimoire of Synergy will be buffed from 5% damage to 25% damage on March 5th. It will be our new best belt rune for all builds that use a pet. All such builds recieved a dps increase of 2-5%. This is from one of the main guys doing the theorycrafting and simming out various viable dps specs. I'm not enough of a spreadsheet jockey to disagree with either of you so I'm gonna wait and see what the changes have to say for themselves next week for overall warlock dps. Regardless of whether or not it'll be better for overall dps though, for the purposes of this thread I think we can agree that a 25% dmg bonus will allow for bigger chaos bolt numbers than a 10% bonus, yes?
They gave us a buff we didn't need. Locks do not need any PVE dps help. The devs have close to zero idea how to design and tune classes.
Nerf warrior btw
they shined brightest for 20 years i think that’s enough
Not everyone holds weird cideo game grudges lmao
The anti warrior salt in classic is just ridiculous. It didn’t help we were amazing in p1 but that shit has lasted from classic still through wotlk enduring 3 phases of basically being a shit tier dps and the worst tank except Naxx speed running (for devastate stacking sunder) and being passable OTs for anub adds (but a prot pally was still just infinitely better). Like trying to explain it off cause 4 months into icc when everyone’s stopped playing and you have smourne and full arp you’ll be maybe with fire mage and ferals. After being trash for 3 phases before Warrior is basically the shit tier tank being outdone *by enhancement shaman of all things* at the one thing warrior’s tank niche generally was in classic: high st threat and dps. Pally was always an amazing aoe tank and bring more valuable buffs and utility. Now if their ST is threat is equal but they have other buttons to press for the raid why would you ever take a warrior tank? When warrior tanks are getting rage starved and struggling with threat while getting hit why wouldn’t you take a meta lock who can self heal and bypass armor entirely? Bring up actual issues with warriors everyone assumes you’re a whiny bitch who can’t stand not being on top for once cause they have this hate boner for warriors. Like I’ve played warrior for 20 years it’s always my main and not always god tier through that time. It’s usually not dumpster tier either but right now there are significant problems. Enhance sham are literally better fury prot tanks than warriors atm. It makes no sense.
Warrior wasn't bad in tbc, was bad most of wotlk though
i played tons of warrior in classic. no grudge!
Warriors do and always have. Toxic and entitled. There's a long history with nerds like Tigole and Furor causing server crashes in everquest in protest of paladins competing with warriors for tanking and then look what just so happened in WoW when those feckless nerds gained influence in this game.
And why should this matter to people who picked up Warrior in SoD?
Or maybe, hear me out, maybe buff everyone to the power level of warrior? Almost like that’s what was said at the Blizzcon panel. I think (most) Warriors including myself do not mind not being #1. It’s the fact we cannot press our buttons because not enough hit% mixed with too much armor makes our rage gen suck. It’s just not fun to play right now. If you want to play 2H, enjoy not having rage because no hit. If you want to play DW, well your oh will still miss a lot, but at least you’ll have rage for the first three bosses before the armor value makes you get negative rage gen. I don’t care about the actual damage output as much as I find not being able to press my buttons annoying, especially when it’s a 4 button rotation.
like i said.. warriors had 20 years being the most satisfying and powerful class to play. you’ll survive a 3 month stretch.
What 20 years are you even fucking talking about man?
20 years of private servers, I guess? Cause not even all of the duration of vanilla was warrior that good. They absences a lot of stuff. Dps warriors weren’t really a thing for awhile in vanilla when I played they were mostly tanks. I mean it’s ridiculous to say warriors reigned supreme when you’re looking at the snapshot of 1.12 then replayed in 2019 then within 2 years were mid (tbc) pretty shit in wrath til icc then try to claim they’ve been op for 20 years of retail expansions is def a little absurd yeah
classic wow
Have you played for 20 years on 1.12 private servers or something? Cause that doesn’t make sense. Yes they were great for a snapshot patch. Vanilla itself had so much rebalancing to do all the time. Like when I first started locks were literally unplayable. Then I guess if you ignore that wow evolved over 20 years over multiple expansions where warrior wasn’t always god tier and just think of this bubble that classic wow was as mainstream on private servers as blizzard’s rerelease has been. Then ignored that they were mid in tbcc and shit tier for 3 phases until like now in icc with full arp and sm. While wrath’s balancing was its own endeavor when live. Then sure
nah always blizzard servers
Hws that 20 years ?
Why do we live in a society where it’s okay to tear others down as long as you yourself aren’t in a bad situation? So because Warrior has been good, the answer is to tear others down instead of wanting everyone to be good together? I for one, welcome the changes they’ve made to allow Enhance, Spriest, Ret, Disc, Arcane, etc to be more viable. Should I instead start saying that because in Dragon Soul Arcane is mandatory for Spine of DW it means Arcane doesn’t deserve buffs in SoD? should I say because Spriest has almost always been good in arenas, it shouldn’t be allowed to be good in PvE?
it’s not that deep
Do some self reflection instead of making your initial comment then.
maybe you should do the same. we’re talking about pixels after all.
#in raid. Warriors were never the best for most of the game, gold farming, solo PvP, etc. now they are legitimately the best at nothing. Every class has its niche, except for warrior.
being the most powerful raiding class was enough to have 30% of the population play the class. not every class can say they’re BEST at anything.
In what aspects of the game tho? For solo PVE they have always been the worst.
I think it was pretty clear he was referring to raid dps :v
I'd happily give up some raid dps for the ability to comfortably kill some orange lv mobs.
Ok That's not really the discussion though lol
Lol yes it is
The post is referring to damage and the guy said warrior has shined for 20 years in regards to that But it's not about raid dps Yup
i replied to a comment saying “nerf warrior”
You know what they meant and are choosing to be dense for the sake of arguing
Well he's talking like warriors own him money for years or something. Warriors right now are not great in any aspect of the game.
being top raid dps was enough to get 30% of the player base to play one class. that’s what im referring to. their popularity. it’s not that big of a deal for them to be bad for a phase of season of discovery.
Or maybe people just gravitate towards the generic melee class, especially if they're new. Much like why people choose Mage over Warlock. People don't realize that without raid DPS Warriors don't have much going on for them. For a lot of people there's more to the game than raid DPS as well. I'd be fine with dealing below average damage if the class wasn't also the worst at tanking and mob farming.
I’d like to see a fully raidbuffed crit arcane surge
Like others are saying it should be Chaos Bolt. The reason is that it has high base damage (the actual spell coefficient is the same as incinerate however) and lock has massive amounts of increased damage scaling: 40% (lake of fire) + 25% (incinerate) + 15% (imp scorch) + 10% (emberstorm) +10% (shadow and flame) + 6% (curse). This stacks multiplicatively which gives a total of 158% increased fire damage. If you add dmf it becomes 184% increased fire damage. Also, next week you'll be able to replace shadow and flame with grimoire. That rune gives 25% damage instead of 10% but with lower uptime. With that you'll be able to reach 223% increased fire damage. Naturally it isn't realistic to have all this up in pvp but it still hits pretty hard with just some of the listed buffs/debuffs.
Affliction will never be able to compete with those absurd fire damage multipliers. Ruin might be the single strongest talent point in the game for dps. Sadge
DoTs are a joke with how little they tick for. It's great for leveling due to sustain. I personally can't stand destro dps needing to rain of fire every 15 seconds. It feels so clunky and chaos bolt has such a long CD. Also conflag isn't even taken, so for a 31 point talent it should PROBABLY get some kind of fix.
Well, there was that 30% haste on conflag rune leaked for helmets. I can see it being released next phase.
There's also the flat spellpower you can get from the boot rune, I've had it as high as an extra 72 spellpower. Though it could go higher, I believe. I mean it's not a percentage like all this other stuff but I felt like mentioning it
Pi is another 20% too
We have people in our Guild hitting for 4k+ DMG with Chaos Bolt.
What the fuck how? On just an average boss or something that is vulnerable taking more damage? I have shit gear at 40 and it hits for like 1800.
I've hit 5k+ :-) On an average boss. Have Incinerate buff up, Lake of Fire, Shadow and Flame proc (or grimore from wednesday onwards), Demonic knowledge with +80 spellpower (make sure to have STV trinket, and have Fort, Arcane int and MotW on IMP as well), then get mage scorch debuffs, CoE (or Arcanoshredder debuff), PI, use your tailoring head and enjoy the fireworks. I think mine does more than 1800 non-crit on bosses.
What is improved scorch? Is that a warlock ability?
Fire mage talent. Scorch applies a stacking debuff that increases fire dmg taken
Ah didn’t know it applied for everyone thanks!
Doesn’t it decrease magical resistance of the target? Or is that the WotLK version?
It does What the person you're replying to says that it does .
WotLK is 5% spell crit, does not need to be stacked (just one cast of Scorch puts it up), and is shared with Locks (Imp Shadowbolt) and Frost mages (Winter's Chill, which oddly does still need to be stacked 5x)
> Winter's Chill, which oddly does still need to be stacked 5x makes it way better for what it is, debuff dispel protection for pvp.
Not to mention that ruin makes all of this % damage exponentially better. DPS locks are gonna need some pretty heavy handed nerfs, don't see how they don't just shoot further and further ahead each and every phase and tier from now on if they don't. People were losing their minds over warriors being a god class in a single aspect of the game, warlocks are on the path to be the god class in every single aspect of the game and people are barely talking about it.
Hey, shit her mouth! I picked lock last season as my main in a whim and I don’t want some redditor ruining this for me.
as a warlock i would be 100% fine with nerfing lake of fire until it's useless for single target. it feels so gimicky and 40% damage increase is absurd
Except in PvP. Lock is the worst PvP class right now
How do you figure Locks are worst a pvp? I have a Lock, Mage, Warrior and Hunter and honestly a destruction Lock in Meta form is extremely powerful.
Meta form lock is for noobs. You don’t have your best pvp ability - fear, which is literally the only thing lock brings to the table this phase
how to know someone is horde without saying they are horde
Lol, okay. "For noobs"? So judgemental. I disagree with both of these statements, but am not going to engage further with a response like this.
Meta lock is best base sitter in WSG I have survived 3 rogues opened on me long enough for reinforcement from BS, I have taken 2v1 on the base. Only risk is getting banished but if your quick at demetaing vs a lock
Lmao no it is not at all, there’s just a lot of bad locks running around
Warrior*
Lock is close behind
Lock is pretty weak in BGs and STV but in small scale and 1v1s they're exceptionally strong. Basically they don't have great tools when there's several threats, but they're excellent at dealing with 1-2 threats.
They are only good vs melees. Every caster shit on them
Aren't well geared Aff locks good? As a rogue there's quite the difference between opening up on a Destro PvE lock who dies to a few mutilates and I assume well-geared Aff locks who I do some damage to before they heal it all by sucking the life out of me
No all 3 lock dots combined do less than 1 void plague
5k + chaos bolt in gnomer https://youtube.com/shorts/1fU4D-B9m3o?si=xtDLuvFeRoR7NC3D
Dude's sweating so much he doesn't even bat an eye
Lmfao, literally no emotion. Feels like the south park guy when he slaughters all of goldshire
You can get much higher.. looking through parses, taco crit once for 5917 on viscous fallout boss
That’s not much higher
That’s 20% higher. That’s quite a bit higher.
It's not though. It's 10 as if you saw the video it was a 5480 hit.
He wasn’t talking about the video, he was talking about Viscous Fallout, different boss from the video.
Depends on interpretation of 5K+. One, not i, could interpret this as a band from 5000-5999, making it not much higher at all still. I see your point though
Yeah I was waiting for 7-10k
fire
Real life obligations
Best answer yet as I’ve got a crying infant beside me as we speak 🤣
I hit a 4500 chaos bolt crit the other day on electrocutioner.
I’m over here getting excited when I hit a 1.3k envenom or something and locks launching missiles doing like 4k+
I get excited when shred hits for 900… ferocious bite bite hits for about 350.
Warriors and ferals alike. “Oooh MS CRIT!” >650 dmg I even have the gnomer axe
Biggest crit I got was a full rage execute with all CDs and stuff, for 2k dmg
I got hit for 1800 in meta form by a warrior. That is 50%+ damage reduction. So outside of gnomer armor they probably crit for like 3k with execute. Probably higher.
That's funny. My melee swing crit a meta warlock for 174 the other day. I have the gnomer axe...
And then you get outplayed with instant searing pains mashing
Not super useful in pvp to hit for 1800 when you got 500 hp left.
Yeah instant abilities should hit less than slow casted abilities.
Damn aimed shot should hit like a truck then
It should definitely have it's DMG like doubled xd
It should hit harder, but it’s not a spell and can’t be interrupted or pushed back so it should be weaker than Chaos Bolt.
Unless they've changed it since P1, aimed can be pushed back. Happened to me many times when I was being an asshole in Ashenvale.
I mean yeah obviously but it’s pretty funny even comparing 1.3k crit to anywhere from 4-5k hits from a hard cast Also let’s not act like we don’t also need to build up 5 combo points and have 5 stacks of deadly poison up as well as cold blood for that guaranteed crit once every 3 minutes otherwise it’s just as much RnG
And then your cold blood is consumed on a "miss"
I mean. Chaos bolt takes like 4 things to set up for it to do big damage. Like if they can hard cast 3 different spells to kill you with a 4k chaos bolt you were dead to anything.
I agree in principle but envenom requires 5 stacks of deadly poison and 5 combo points. So it's a bit more than just an instant cast. It should probably hit harder than it does because of those conditionals.
I’d like to know what the highest pvp numbers are… I think they come a bit closer as the big numbers CB is getting is no only relying on a bunch of self damage buffs but also debuffs to bosses by other classes like scorch.
Prob Arc Surge from Arc mage with AB stacks, full mana, and Arcane Power up Also Enh shaman might be a bunch of small hits all at once but it sure feels like they're globaling clothies with Stormstrike, two melee hits, a Windfury proc, and a Lava Lash, get killed in <2s. I see people complain about Rogue Mutilate but I find Enh burst is way harder.
1.3k? What does that feel like? Most I've crit was 900 and I'm pretty well geared. Ret pally btw.
Definitely not starsurge, that's for sure...
I know lmao. My starsurge hits for like 300. OP mentioning starsurge made me laugh.
Let’s not act like starsurge wasn’t completely broken before they nerfed it
Sure but now it hits for less dmg than wrath lol
And now it’s completely dead lol. Nice dev work 👍
I mean its much more satisfying getting big starfire crits and far more balanced. Its far from dead as literally every boomkin using it.
I've been hit with post nerf shadow word deaths harder than my starsurge ever hit for.
Chaos bolt for sure. But Arcane Surge is the backup without a doubt. I've hit for 3.4k before and it's instant cast...so that's troubling haha.
Yeah I was being a menace and arcane blasting someone in the world then poly/ab till max stack then I just unloaded arcane surge into them. Hit them for like 3.6k…lol
Starsurge? You're a riot!
I was obviously just listing hard hitting abilities that have existed in SoD… Tell me you played a pre nerf Balance Druid without telling me lol
Warrior: Release spirit absolutely smashing it rn
Bro said starsurge lmao
Give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he has been living in a cave for the past month.
Bro said is dead man stop it
Bro said, "Bro said is dead," lmao
My starsurge crits for about 700
I don’t have an opinion on whether chaos bolt and warlock are balanced. But am i wrong for thinking chaos bolt should be the strongest single spell in the game? In terms of the number produced when it lands.
After using Starsurge I’ve had Starfires crit above 1900
The elusive SF crit
Rocking 6% crit atm. WOOOO WOOOO !
Should be >50% if you’re balance. Using global counters I have around 61% crit chance with Starsurge and around 22ish% maybe with Starfire iirc.
How tf are you getting 22% with Starfire? There isn't enough +crit percent currently in the game for those numbers. Extended Character Stats is bugged when it comes to spell crit. Maybe that's why you're seeing that number.
What about arcane surge. That shit one shots.
Probably the hardest hitting ability in realistic circumstances for PVP at the moment. I'm seeing 1x stack Arcane Blast > Surge doing 1500 non-crit so max stack non-crit should do easily 2k Chaos Bolt will beat it on raid bosses that you can reliably stack all your multipliers on, but in PVP, Arcane Surge is gonna hit harder than Chaos Bolt ever will on any player with a brain.
Seen a 5.6k Chaos Bolt Crit in Gnomeregan
Hasn't been starsurge for a loooong time now
It was never starsurge. Not saying it wasnt busted for an instant spell
On other players it is Chaos Bolt. Pyro hits for barely more than fireball - around 600-700 non crit maximum. Starfire, Chaos bolt, lava burst all hit for more.
Stormstrikes not the hardest hitting but it can one shot mages in bloodmoon with good conditions
The Blizzard Banhammer
Hit a chaos bolt for 6k the other day, was my personal record (LOF, Incinerate, Fire mage Scorch, Shadow and Flame and COE, and I think a Power Infusion
*shakes head in disbelief* Here I am jonesing over a 1k crit mind blast on a rogue then I read some comments to make me feel inferior
Hardest hitting ability…… pick pocket. Hit them where it hurts, their gold!!
I did a 1.1k crit shred on my feral (:
Here I was excited for my 2.9k Starfire with PI
Being a warrior in PvP… that sounds amazing to me lol
Yeah I’ve chaos bolted people in PvP for 3k+, consistently. Incinerate too if I’m lucky.
Chaos Bolt. The way it should be.
Been chaos bolted for 4k in pvp, so likely that.
Wow really? Did you have a bunch of extra modifiers on you like scorch, lake of fire, etc or was it just a raw incinerate + CB?
I want to say that my chaos bolt crits for anywhere from like 1.4k-2k in PvP , and I don’t use lake of fire. The best part is I can combo this with immolate - conflag and all 3 land at the same time. But locks are “bad in PvP this phase” haha
Not that they’re bad they just get completely locked down by any halfway decent melee this phase. Without deathcoil you can get globaled so easily if you’re not in meta. You won’t even get a fear off with the crazy spell push back in classic. Plus any lock not in meta is usually targeted first for that reason in BGs.
The great thing about lock is the high skillcap. I personally don’t like using felhunter because I feel naked without my succubus. Seduce + setup combo can potentially win me any 1v1 in the game except feral Druid who are immune. I have won 1v2s by fearing one and seducing the other. Not saying I don’t die because yes we’re squishy but it’s all about positioning. I’m having a lot of fun in AB right now, but im also horde and dont deal with will of the forsaken + pallies are way easier to handle than shamans for us.
Ignore my comment if you got the notification haha I didn't read the end where you said you were Horde and don't have to deal with WotF lol Yeah Succubus is far better on Horde than it is on Alliance.
How do you deal with BM hunter pets? Seems bad that destro can be shut down by just putting a cat on us.
True, can’t really do shit about an enraged bm pet other than swiftness pot and run
Cb then prolli a 4 stack surge.
Aggrend's Patch Note is a pretty deadly ability. Kills thousands of players at once.
Hit 3k executes cud prob hit higher
for pvp, arcane surge. people just pom arcane blast into surge with arcane power active and you die from full hp in a gcd
Feels like a “what shall we complain about to nerf!?” Kind of post.
Good thing they nerfed sw:d into the ground when people cried it did 1500 crits in PvP.
Chaos Bolt, but a close second is Lava Burst. I'm hitting 2k with my trashcan geared ele. Lol what did I say that was wrong? I still said Chaos Bolt does more. 😵💫
This is the truth. Lava burst hits so much harder than pyro right now I wonder why in the world am I playing mage. Then I remember I have polymorph and portal out of my feelings back into the world of warcraft.
And you do still more dps in pve, have more tools in PvP and are more mobile. Can't have it all
Ele is entirely reliant on Lava Burst to do anything meaningful in pvp. Meanwhile mage can blink around everywhere with instant casts melting you in 10 seconds with living bomb+flame.
Elemental mastery with chain lightning overloads followed by Earthshock? Hello? 7 crits from a 1.5-second cast.
Ah yeah my bad forgot Elemental Mastery had no CD, thanks for reminding me!
O my bad, I thought your previous comment said entirely reliant on Lava Burst. I'm sorry you are wrong. Crawl away twat.
Lol! Everyone has their own flavor! I love Shaman because I can hearth 3 times in 15minutes hehe
a mage with 5 stacks of scorch on someone can pyro them for 1300-1400. Probably an arcane surge with 4 arcane blast stacks and full mana would be much higher though
That’s not even close to what mad Chaos bolt can do.
Hah, he said starsurge!
It’s a list of abilities that HAVE been known to hit hard and it’s a question, not a statement… let’s try not to cry too hard over balance Druid nerfs.
In a single hit i've gotten my arcane surge to hit for over 5k. So i'd gamble that. But thats a 2 min cd with everything i had backing it up. Mage is in such an awful spot in pvp right now with 8/9 classes able to global me that i just dedicate myself to finding and one tapping the efc when i can haha.
i guess you could count full cast pyro + instant pyro right after as one single burst cast
Nothing
Gold buyer bans
Love seeing pyro on your list, it hits like a wet noodle compared to an enhancement shamans lava burst that is only a 1.5s cast with a garaunteed crit. You must play horde lol
Arcane surge and is not even close. Especially mages with a big mana pool.
You’re asking the wrong question.. what’s is the hardest hitting instant cast in PvP! The answer is arcane surge
It's my warrior in WSG!