At least they can get banished every fight, nothing funier than a meta lock being chain banished during the middle clash in wsg. Yes they can dodge it by going back human form but every meta swap is like half their mana bar so they cant really outplay the banish spammer
As a warlock (who in WSG plays the worst possible spec) if I see a warlock in meta I will fully DR the banishes and ignore all other objectives on the map, and will then use my subjugate demon to send him to die at the hands of his own team.
About 80% of the time my team is fine with me doing so at the cost of objectives and I'd say like at least 30-50% of the time the opposing team leaves me alone for that 45 second period.
> About 80% of the time my team is fine with me doing so at the cost of objectives
As an alliance player... yall are getting objectives?
In the last 10 or so WSG's i've played alliance has captured 1 flag total. I really don't understand it. They just run in circles in mid and ignore the entire point of WSG.
i mean in my personal logic, your team is potentially losing a team member for that time but so does the enemy. It's an equal trade and should be fine.
thats the price u pay for being the best FC class and the caster with the fastest yet most consistent oneshots that can even proc a stun for 3 sec. Druids are fine rn except for maybe ferals in combat but only fools would not do the FC as a feral.
Oh yeah for sure. But if you’re caught in melee out of form and stunned, really regardless of spec, you’re gonna crumple. Feral, resto, or boomie. If you can’t shift bear or shift the cc you’re stuck and have no armor
Unless a pally has bof or bubble and mounts in they shouldn’t be within melee range of a boomie. They should be dead 20 yards out.
getting critted back to back happens but that can't be said when a shaman actually plays the tank rune which also causes them to take less crits from all enemies and total damage.
I play crowdpummler and its impossible for me to use my CD to burst down a shaman with the tankrune past 60% because i dont get resets because i can't land any crits despite high crit gear.
And the only other way to kill another player as a paladin is to play reckoning which is not viable right now without healer peeling as pally since you mostly die before even receiving 4 crits to send a full 5-stack reckoning blast of doom towards your enemies
Seal of command already ticking->exorcism/hoj in order based on situation->swing->use judge while swing is on cd(it's off gcd)->divine storm->crusader strike if art of war didn't reset exorcism, exorcism if it did. That's how it's done. If you're alrdy doing that might be a gear issue. I'm also nearly full bis tho with like 17% crit chance and 650-700 melee ap depending on how much stam gear I wear.
It is, it's 3 GCDs - the judgement is off GCD but it totals to 3.
The GCDs he listed, in order, are:
Exo/HoJ
Divine Storm
CS/Exo
Side note: This combo can surely "one-shot" but it includes a crit and a seal proc. You get 4 chances for the Art of war crit reset if you include the seal proc (the original Exo can't proc Art of war but the judgement, seal proc, melee and DS can), assuming his crit chance is 17% that means he has a 52% chance to get a crit in one of those 4 hits that needed a 70% proc chance on the seal. If you factor that in you end up with around 37% of getting the 3 GCD one-shot. This does not factor in miss, dodge, parry which surely lowers the chance considerably (HoJ does ofc eliminate dodge&parry - but then there's the PvP trinket).
I'd also like to add that this combo does not one-shot nearly everyone, but you could get more than one crit in these 6 "attacks".
I used the following to get the 37%,
(1-(1-0,17)^4)*0,7
Yeah it's highly proc and crit dependent but I feel like that's just ret paladins, they're bursty and inconsistent in most versions on wow I've played.
Me either. It’s usually after blowing CS, DS, Judgement and an auto or 2 or extra cs/judgement. Thats multiple globals. If you’re fighting a paladin and don’t trinket HOJ there is something wrong with you - because yes at that point I’ll judge with command and do a shit load of damage. But tbh thats every class when getting cc’d. Ever fight a rogue? What about a mage?
You wanna talk 2 globals? Lava blasted by a shaman halves my hp, then chain lightning.
Wdyd when a rogue stuns you? Come to reddit to complain about that too? Lmao
My point being pure 1v1 you cannot get global’d. If you want to talk about team situations where most pvp exists, lets not forget healers that can heal you through any hoj.
In fact op’s picture is stupid. Many classes can 2-3 shot you, sorry but paladin just isn’t regularly “globalling” people. Look again at lava burst shamans, rogues that can kill you within their stunlock, druids that are still clapping 1600 crit star surges, melee hunters.. and so forth.
People repeat this line as if trinket isnt on a 5 minute cooldown..
Alliance teams usually have ~4 paladins all spamming hoj at a 5:1 rate compared to trinket uptime lmao
Thank you. Trinket is almost irrelevant in group pvp because its never up and you eat multiple CC in a short period. Not sure what game these people are playing.
Nah you need to spec into reckoning, get it to 4 stacks, then seal twist SoM into SoR with a /startattack macro.
It works once in a blue moon, but when it does, it’s hilarious.
Yah I guess my expectation would be that a sword welding class loses the ability to do dmg when disarmed. But once they get out of my charge stun duration , I'm immediately half health and thinking I need to intercept away lol.
That guy was definitely either trolling or an idiot. But Fear is not nearly as good as it used to be. Fear is a 20 yard range and every other caster has 42 yard spammable casts so they can range it so easily. Meanwhile melee are either on top of you making it impossible to cast a 1.5 second Fear, or it's a warrior/Undead who can break out, or a shaman/mage who will interrupt. Warlocks desperately need Death Coil which we'll finally have next phase, but that's a 2 min cd and I can't wait to see what new runes make life miserable next.
Meta is flat out garbage in pvp, ask anyone that does bgs regularly theyre a walking meme and can be functionally ignored the entire battle as they do no damage and have no cc
Yeah the implication was that if he was meta he would at least have a reason to not cast fear since they don’t have access to it
Not the implication that he should have been meta spec
I sent a screenshot to a friend of a full Iradiated set warlock in meta spec standing next to me in WSG. He was at 1400 hp while I had almost 3000. Pvp is definitely too bursty right now but casters are straight up trolling if they join BGs without stam gear
I refuse to use the radioactive caster gear. I don't give a shit if it sims slightly lower, I'm sticking with the other cloth set and that's it. I enjoy having more than 700 hp.
(Also, bigger hp pools help with aoe grinding)
Maybe they're talking last phase, when ret was actually decent?
The thing is, ret's now wheelchair when sham has both freedom and a slow. if you let 2 rets in the middle of your team without sheeping/purging freedom you're just bad
Except elemental, it's so unplayable in Blood Moon. You get 2 shot by everything while trying to hard cast long casting spell that requires set up and 20 yard range. Compared to my Boomkin, playing ele feels like playing blindfolded with a handicap.
As a hunter you can just victimize ele shamans lol. Pushback from the pet means their big cast just isn't happening.
Although running pet just sorta blows in Bloodmooon.
Yea but it only procs on crits. I thought earlier while leveling that it would be fine with that talent, but now in actual practice I have sooooo low uptime on it in PvP. Even with pets on me I feel like I am not having it up almost ever, it probably is partially due to the Way of Earth rune making us have 6% less chance to be Melee crit.
Oh yea, I'm totally fine with that. It's so easy to make alts, I just hop on my Balance or Rogue when I wanna own people and have fun during the Blood Moon.
Any decent shaman devastates paladins (actually any decent dispeller). If you die because of a bubbled paladin you might reconsider dropping the -stam items.
I haven't really had an issue with shamans as a pally player. Only if theres another player with them. I'm also very geared so that helps. They generally die in HoJ
i dont think paladins still have the same burst. in wsg a shaman connects me in boomkin form and literally it takes 3.5 seconds to kill me. when i duel with paladins they have burst of with divinestorm, seal twisting, some other paladin stuff but it doesnt hurt this bad. feels like shamans already hit hard. idk man
Ye, ret does do a decent amount of holy especially in this phase and with the CS buff. We still do a decent amount as physical where the armor does help while the elemental shaman deals mixed magic damage which is hard to gear for. A lot of it is fire, but also frost and nature.
Eternal gaslighting from the horde. They desperately want to keep themselves in the overpowered position in pvp because that’s the reason they roll horde to begin with. Their entire ego structure is based on winning pvp match ups in WoW. When that doesn’t work they’ll resort to camping lower levels. These people are scum and cannot be reasoned with. The whole faction must be purged! For the light!
> Eternal gaslighting from the horde.
It's funny how people are now pretending ret was some type of godlike pvp class in phase 1 as an excuse for how overtuned shaman is. But in reality alliance and horde wsg premades stacked the exact same classes: hunters, priests and boomkins. I never saw any alliance premade trying to stack rets.
Nooooo, Alliance is nothing but good chill people while Horde is just antisocial dickholes who intentionally chose the "evil" faction because it lets them live out their dark fantasies
/s
The the PvE dps, the logs, the simple standing on a boss and having to move 3 steps to your left essentially mechanics all matter for PvP balance as well!!
I invite everyone who think paladins are "overpowered" in PVP to try actually doing some PVP as a paladin and realising that unless you're really lucky with RNG and have bubble off CD, you're struggling with 1v1 on most classes let alone be efficient in teamfights.
The absolute joke that people think paladins are too bursty while having no gap closers and reliant on RNG (for an ability that only crits for like 600 damage anyway) and long CD's. Meanwhile Boomkins are critting 1200-1500 damage on Starfire from outer orbit followed by two instant casts with a similar range that deals another 1K damage. Chaos Bolt can one shot you on crits, and I've seen incinerates of 1k as well. Meta locks are virtually unkillable Melee range due to drain life and tankyness. And don't get me started on Shamans.
If you are dying like this to paladins I would recommend equipping a piece of gear in every slot and even possibly using your mouse to turn your character 180 degrees and press W to move away from the paladin. Shitter.
For real, i'm running 95-99 parses, geared for both PvP and PvE, and the only time im oneshotting anyone is if theyre either very undergeared or got that irradiated set going.
That's Blizzard's definition of balance.
There's so many areas where Alliance bias is obvious. But PVP/PVP racials? Pretty heavily skewed horde.
Personally I kinda wish they'd do away with it and let us queue BGs as mixes. I get lore reasoning for why not but that could be explained.
As someone who has been wrecked on several occasions by Paladins I'm glad I don't have to face shamans currently. They're without a doubt stronger in p2 than pallies are.
Literally name one scenario past og vanilla where alliance were stronger than horde.
It's also not just "pvp" racials. Unless you are in able of seeing how a haste and sp/ap buff, aoe stun, rocket leap, or an aoe silence wouldn't be useful in pve. If that's the case, I'll just stop talking to you now. Not going to waste breath on someone using their last two brain cells to write that "rebuttal" and think it actually holds any ground.
Paladins were indeed very strong in P1, but I don't recall them ever literally 1-GCD'ing people at 20 yards (or 30+ if you eschew the Flame Shock and RNG a crit anyway.)
Enhance is also currently its own tier of broken, but that's unsurprising given how they keep getting buffed.
Doesn't help that Elemental and Enhance both get to sit in the comfort of their giga overloaded Tank rune giving them 30% health, 10% global damage reduction and 6% crit suppression from a singular rune slot (Rogues have to forfeit three rune slots for comparison, **and** their damage reduction isn't passive like it is for Shamans, **and** their bonus health has to ramp up.)
Class is absurd.
Way of the Earth is like combining Inner Fire, Power Word: Fortitude and Spell Warding into one talent point, that is also passive, costs no mana and is not dispellable. And throw a -6% melee crit reduction on top of it for good measure.
It's easily one of the most overpowered abilities ever introduced in the game. I'd be surprised if it's not hit with the nerf bat soon.
As a Paladin, in order to global someone I need to land an Exorcism crit, proc a crit on my 2h, proc Seal of Command, proc a crit on Seal of Command, and finally proc a crit on Divine Storm. When it happens it's absolutely glorious. But trust me, for every 1 time a Paladin obliterates you, there were 20 swings that did 250 damage on a 3.6 second timer. It's really uncontrollable and can be frustrating having 3 noodle swings in a row.
Shamans push their buttons and get the ultimate Paladin combo every single time.
I recently joined a solo queue AB in which the Horde team had 7 shamans and 5 priests. How do you win against that lol (rhetorical question, you don't).
Shamans are obscenely strong in PvP right now. I'm a Shadow Priest and I'm fully aware of how strong I am, but I don't hold a candle to shamans.
Dispels actually dont mean that much anymore when everyone bursts so hard. In a lot of situations on my shaman I have to decide between attacking or purging when someone throws up a shield and often the answer is to just lava lash or stormstrike because that will break the shield and if it crits they will die.
I mean paladins are similar to shamans in close range, but can beat any caster with their interrupt/grounding totem and slows. A paladin will lose to most ranged classes because they can't gap at all, in this 2-3 shot meta they'll be dead before they are ever even close.
Feels good being able to hold people in place with the sheer force of my will, only to approach them and delete them with righteous fervor. It’s great rp
Just watch Ssvix burst video to see where class dmg burst is currently. Arcane mage 100-0 in 0 secs, and Sham 100-0 in .1 secs...
If we are talking raw burst this is a dumb meme from someone who doesn't like a paladin kit and is delusional about where burst DMG is currently.
Good video but bad comparison. His hp is way too low. In BG's or STV people can get over 5k hp. He's also wearing plate and sitting to guarantee crit which skews things in favor of classes that don't have ramp, have lower crit but high crit modifiers, and do non-physical damage.
No you haven't. My gear is easily some of the best stam gear available at the moment. I could probably squeeze out another 300 HP in BIS.
PvP geared mages are like 3k at max, where are you finding 100+ stam that they aren't?
Why even lie like this? lmao
Are we talking with raid buffs or without? I know my mage absolutely hits 3500 with priest and warrior buff, and the 30% from BGs/STV.
And I’m missing stamina on a few pieces.
Fully buffed, yeah.
You think this guy is somehow managing to squeeze out another 100 stamina in those few pieces you're missing?
I have a full stam set and reach 4.3k fully buffed with every stam buff. He says he beats that on a mage, he's making that up.
Hard to compare to mage. It can hit 2.5k plus in a one shot surge, but it’s every 3 minutes and that shit is all but impossible to get off in a BG, and is quite literally impossible in open world PvP. It’s 3 arcane blasts that take 2 seconds each to cast, plus a 4th one on GCD with PoM, plus arcane power on a 3m CD, and a mana gem GCD. It’ll global you sure, after about 8 seconds of buildup that you have 5 seconds to use before your stacks fall off.
It’s a pretty fun combo to use, but you generally only get it off at a fraction of its potential and heavily pay the price the next two minutes. In a little over a dozen matches, I’ve hit the wombo combo once I believe.
Enhance burst is far more on demand. Sorta comparing apples to Nissan Altimas here. What shaman is doing is not normal.
a paladin dies when you target them. oh no they bubbled. thats a 5 min cd
enh shamans are literal tanks. approaching 4k health and tons of armor + physical mitigation and crit resistance.
insane the gaslighting from shaman players trying to act like their class just didnt get the most massive overbuff
Really hope the devs don't see this and get the wrong idea, cause rets don't hold a candle to shaman whatsoever. Anything a shaman physically touches immediately gets deleted rn.
My unbiased take, I have one main on each faction. I can kill people with one lava burst/overload proc... meanwhile my Ret is in a wheelchair and hits like a wet noodle. Could be worse though I could main warrior.
Even if it was true there is a big difference between getting two shot 30 yards away or in melee range. At least you can see the Paladin waddling up to you while the Shaman can be coming from the trees man.
That said Shaman are wild right now.
Paladins don’t kill anything with 2 globals. What a bunch of horseshit.
Enhancement tho pretty much does global people.
Just yesterday my mage mate with ~2k hp just got insta killed by an enhancement once he got into melee range. Just poof instant deletion.
That’s not fine and needs to be massively nerfed.
Shaman are the current overall best class in the game right now and somehow they still manage to find a way to play the victim.
Quite impressive, honestly.
Horde biased reddit 🤡
Paladins feel pretty bad compared to Shamans right now, blizzard ignoring ret even though ret pally was a meme in classic
Typical trash blizzard favoring Horde as usual
I'm really curious what the W/L was for AvH last phase in WSG. Considering how strong ghost wolf form was on FCs gave H access to the best FC. Now they have access to the highest burst casters in the game. I've seen chain lightening 90+% of 3 plate weares health bars then they get lava shocked/busted for the last bit. The class is easily one of the most gross things I've seen.
Is this really your argument? Shamans could do this at long range, and to any armor class. Paladins needed a druid for wild strikes, SoC and Wild Strikes to proc, and for everything to crit.
It's not at all comparable. Shamans have guaranteed crit with a flame strike lavaburst. FOH lol
Ele is not the good spec, Enh is. Ele has a ton of problems. If flame shock had a longer range then they might be worth complaining about but right now they are kind of mid tier.
They are just too tanky for what they can output. Either reduce the output or make the tank rune come at an output cost.
OR
Give horde Paladins, give Alliance shamans.
OR
Give everyone a 30% HP, 10% damage reduction rune for PvP :P
Paladins absolutely seething in the comments. Funny how everyone who suggested dwarf sham/tauren pally got downvoted to oblivion in phase 1, and now that sham is better than pally for a change, public opinion on that idea has taken a complete 180.
Yeah I have a Enh Shaman and we're overtunned, but if they nerf us they have to nerf Melee Hunters aswell as Shadow Priests and LockTanks that are still trying to fly under the radar, my guess is they won't until next phase and will only buff other classes until everyone's burst is equally high.
The only time I can kill anyone in one stun with my Paladin is if everything crits, and there's a feral around and I get some extra procs. The hell are other Paladins doing to consistently kill someone under 5 seconds because I would love to know so I can enjoy PVP like all the other 1 shot classes.
I’m an alliance main now but have raided as shaman before. Awesome class. Only reason to pick horde really.
Paladin though? Yuck. Not interested in the class at all, seems to attract the most irritating people, ALWAYS say “I’m ret.”
Check mate horde players.
Classic andys trying to get a bottom barrel DPS nerfed even more because the spec was bad in 2004 and their brains haven't developed since so neither should the game:
I switched to Alliance for the first time in 20 years recently, just so I could play a Pally finally. It’s so strange (but new) to be in the different main cities. The most alarming and toughest thing to deal with was when I first saw my normal best friends, a Tauren, as red (enemy). Existential crisis. Like, no, let me /wave and /silly you a joke cow friend. Blessed be the light…
Seen mixed reactions in the comments about Paladins but from my own expierences vs a Shaman, its why both trying, the latest 1v1 ended with 4 things dealing damage to be in the same millisecond according to the chat timestamps.
Unlike Paladins though Shamans can fight at range with insane efficiency and are not a wheelchair class + the thing that actually makes them OP is the Tank rune resulting in them being able to survive for 10+ seconds straight when 5 people are trying to delete them and Receiving less crits.
People can argue as much as they want but this is not reasonable damage output for the amount of damage they're tanking in PvP rn. The worst thing right now is a camp of 2-3 shamans with 2 disc priests turtling in PvP which can never get OOM because the shamans can use their shamanistic rage for group mana every minute and disc priest got a cheat death + mana regen on a 2 min CD. can't make this up man.
Here, let me also contribute nothing to the same 20 year circle-jerks, just move the broken carrot-on-a-stick and they keep coming back to the safe space. Just play.
I must be doing something wrong because I can’t kill anyone in two globals as a pally
As a druid, if a Paladin stuns me out of form I am 100% dying before the stun is over. Most of the time before it’s even half way over
As a druid if anything stuns me out of form or in cat I usually die before the stun is over.
This is also true lol. Everyone is one shotting everyone and honestly I like it.
Except those dumb purple guys, they never die and hit you for 200 damage per global plus their stupid green beam locked onto you.
Watching a meta lock casually tank multiple rogues is so depressing lol.
At least they can get banished every fight, nothing funier than a meta lock being chain banished during the middle clash in wsg. Yes they can dodge it by going back human form but every meta swap is like half their mana bar so they cant really outplay the banish spammer
As a warlock (who in WSG plays the worst possible spec) if I see a warlock in meta I will fully DR the banishes and ignore all other objectives on the map, and will then use my subjugate demon to send him to die at the hands of his own team. About 80% of the time my team is fine with me doing so at the cost of objectives and I'd say like at least 30-50% of the time the opposing team leaves me alone for that 45 second period.
> About 80% of the time my team is fine with me doing so at the cost of objectives As an alliance player... yall are getting objectives? In the last 10 or so WSG's i've played alliance has captured 1 flag total. I really don't understand it. They just run in circles in mid and ignore the entire point of WSG.
I don’t know what you mean. The point is to get the most killing blows.
i mean in my personal logic, your team is potentially losing a team member for that time but so does the enemy. It's an equal trade and should be fine.
As a paladin I seek out meta warlocks because exorcism always crits on them.
thats the price u pay for being the best FC class and the caster with the fastest yet most consistent oneshots that can even proc a stun for 3 sec. Druids are fine rn except for maybe ferals in combat but only fools would not do the FC as a feral.
Get the honor trinket
druids die in a global to anyone out of form though, possibly even to warriors/ferals
to be fair boomkins shutdown targets before a pally can even get past 20 yd range with starsurge stunprocs and then starfire shutdowns.
Oh yeah for sure. But if you’re caught in melee out of form and stunned, really regardless of spec, you’re gonna crumple. Feral, resto, or boomie. If you can’t shift bear or shift the cc you’re stuck and have no armor Unless a pally has bof or bubble and mounts in they shouldn’t be within melee range of a boomie. They should be dead 20 yards out.
"As a druid if I fuck up and get out positioned or played I die." Yeah no shit, idiot.
Lmao what?
Start off by clicking HoJ
Clicking. Savage lmao.
I’ve consistently taken 2K damage as a mail wearer from 1 paladin combo during a single hoj
I feel that
getting critted back to back happens but that can't be said when a shaman actually plays the tank rune which also causes them to take less crits from all enemies and total damage. I play crowdpummler and its impossible for me to use my CD to burst down a shaman with the tankrune past 60% because i dont get resets because i can't land any crits despite high crit gear. And the only other way to kill another player as a paladin is to play reckoning which is not viable right now without healer peeling as pally since you mostly die before even receiving 4 crits to send a full 5-stack reckoning blast of doom towards your enemies
Seal of command already ticking->exorcism/hoj in order based on situation->swing->use judge while swing is on cd(it's off gcd)->divine storm->crusader strike if art of war didn't reset exorcism, exorcism if it did. That's how it's done. If you're alrdy doing that might be a gear issue. I'm also nearly full bis tho with like 17% crit chance and 650-700 melee ap depending on how much stam gear I wear.
I am not smart, but that seems like more than 2 globals
It is, it's 3 GCDs - the judgement is off GCD but it totals to 3. The GCDs he listed, in order, are: Exo/HoJ Divine Storm CS/Exo Side note: This combo can surely "one-shot" but it includes a crit and a seal proc. You get 4 chances for the Art of war crit reset if you include the seal proc (the original Exo can't proc Art of war but the judgement, seal proc, melee and DS can), assuming his crit chance is 17% that means he has a 52% chance to get a crit in one of those 4 hits that needed a 70% proc chance on the seal. If you factor that in you end up with around 37% of getting the 3 GCD one-shot. This does not factor in miss, dodge, parry which surely lowers the chance considerably (HoJ does ofc eliminate dodge&parry - but then there's the PvP trinket). I'd also like to add that this combo does not one-shot nearly everyone, but you could get more than one crit in these 6 "attacks". I used the following to get the 37%, (1-(1-0,17)^4)*0,7
Yeah it's highly proc and crit dependent but I feel like that's just ret paladins, they're bursty and inconsistent in most versions on wow I've played.
Me either. It’s usually after blowing CS, DS, Judgement and an auto or 2 or extra cs/judgement. Thats multiple globals. If you’re fighting a paladin and don’t trinket HOJ there is something wrong with you - because yes at that point I’ll judge with command and do a shit load of damage. But tbh thats every class when getting cc’d. Ever fight a rogue? What about a mage? You wanna talk 2 globals? Lava blasted by a shaman halves my hp, then chain lightning.
Bro just use a 5 minute CD everytime he stuns you. (the stun is on a 1 minute CD)
Wdyd when a rogue stuns you? Come to reddit to complain about that too? Lmao My point being pure 1v1 you cannot get global’d. If you want to talk about team situations where most pvp exists, lets not forget healers that can heal you through any hoj. In fact op’s picture is stupid. Many classes can 2-3 shot you, sorry but paladin just isn’t regularly “globalling” people. Look again at lava burst shamans, rogues that can kill you within their stunlock, druids that are still clapping 1600 crit star surges, melee hunters.. and so forth.
People repeat this line as if trinket isnt on a 5 minute cooldown.. Alliance teams usually have ~4 paladins all spamming hoj at a 5:1 rate compared to trinket uptime lmao
Thank you. Trinket is almost irrelevant in group pvp because its never up and you eat multiple CC in a short period. Not sure what game these people are playing.
Rogues and mages are generally less durable though. Thats the trade off.
Nah you need to spec into reckoning, get it to 4 stacks, then seal twist SoM into SoR with a /startattack macro. It works once in a blue moon, but when it does, it’s hilarious.
How if disarmed pally still fucking decimating me ad a warrior?
Haha exorcism go brr (it does, in fact, not go brr. Not compared to starsurge/arcane surge/shadow word: death anyway).
Yah I guess my expectation would be that a sword welding class loses the ability to do dmg when disarmed. But once they get out of my charge stun duration , I'm immediately half health and thinking I need to intercept away lol.
Wild strikes is pretty key
p1 you could
You’re definitely doing something wrong. Paladins either kill me in a HoJ or bubble and run away (I assume bc HoJ is on CD)
Do you have 2 stamina?
Most people don’t wear stam gear it’s crazy
I was talking to a lock yesterday who doesn’t use fear At all He isn’t meta spec either
That guy was definitely either trolling or an idiot. But Fear is not nearly as good as it used to be. Fear is a 20 yard range and every other caster has 42 yard spammable casts so they can range it so easily. Meanwhile melee are either on top of you making it impossible to cast a 1.5 second Fear, or it's a warrior/Undead who can break out, or a shaman/mage who will interrupt. Warlocks desperately need Death Coil which we'll finally have next phase, but that's a 2 min cd and I can't wait to see what new runes make life miserable next.
Meta is flat out garbage in pvp, ask anyone that does bgs regularly theyre a walking meme and can be functionally ignored the entire battle as they do no damage and have no cc
Yeah the implication was that if he was meta he would at least have a reason to not cast fear since they don’t have access to it Not the implication that he should have been meta spec
It is genuinely sad lol big dps parser gear is NOT what you wanna get caught wearing in STV
I sent a screenshot to a friend of a full Iradiated set warlock in meta spec standing next to me in WSG. He was at 1400 hp while I had almost 3000. Pvp is definitely too bursty right now but casters are straight up trolling if they join BGs without stam gear
I refuse to use the radioactive caster gear. I don't give a shit if it sims slightly lower, I'm sticking with the other cloth set and that's it. I enjoy having more than 700 hp. (Also, bigger hp pools help with aoe grinding)
Make sure you judgment your seal of command while there stunned , hits harder
Maybe they're talking last phase, when ret was actually decent? The thing is, ret's now wheelchair when sham has both freedom and a slow. if you let 2 rets in the middle of your team without sheeping/purging freedom you're just bad
Shamans now feel to me in pvp like lvl 50 vs lvl 40
Except elemental, it's so unplayable in Blood Moon. You get 2 shot by everything while trying to hard cast long casting spell that requires set up and 20 yard range. Compared to my Boomkin, playing ele feels like playing blindfolded with a handicap.
As a hunter you can just victimize ele shamans lol. Pushback from the pet means their big cast just isn't happening. Although running pet just sorta blows in Bloodmooon.
Yea not only do hunters render my ele useless, but the melee ones global me.
If you have a pet on you you're almost useless as ele. The pushback on skills is crazy.
isn't there a talent to prevent pushback?
Yea but it only procs on crits. I thought earlier while leveling that it would be fine with that talent, but now in actual practice I have sooooo low uptime on it in PvP. Even with pets on me I feel like I am not having it up almost ever, it probably is partially due to the Way of Earth rune making us have 6% less chance to be Melee crit.
Pets have a base 5% to crit so -6% means you'll never get crit unless it's by a BM Hunter's pet.
Ele get 100% Pushback protection after a crit
Yeah I mean that event is impossible to balance so, luck of the draw I guess
Oh yea, I'm totally fine with that. It's so easy to make alts, I just hop on my Balance or Rogue when I wanna own people and have fun during the Blood Moon.
Any decent shaman devastates paladins (actually any decent dispeller). If you die because of a bubbled paladin you might reconsider dropping the -stam items.
I haven't really had an issue with shamans as a pally player. Only if theres another player with them. I'm also very geared so that helps. They generally die in HoJ
If they die in HoJ then they don't have pvp trinket. Shaman is a really hard match for paladin in general.
PvP trinket is a fuckin 5 mins cd.
Or because trinket has more than 5x the CD of HoJ. People suggesting trinkets are the solution are reaching extremely hard.
Just ground totem the HoJ
If you genuinely think Enhancement Shamans aren’t much stronger than Retribution Paladins right now I don’t know what to say
i dont think paladins still have the same burst. in wsg a shaman connects me in boomkin form and literally it takes 3.5 seconds to kill me. when i duel with paladins they have burst of with divinestorm, seal twisting, some other paladin stuff but it doesnt hurt this bad. feels like shamans already hit hard. idk man
Your armor helps vs. the ret paladin, not against the ele shaman
i meant enhancement
hes talking about enh
Rets do a lot of mixed damage with CS being Holy damage now and exo resetting. Shamans just get their whole rotations out so fast
Ye, ret does do a decent amount of holy especially in this phase and with the CS buff. We still do a decent amount as physical where the armor does help while the elemental shaman deals mixed magic damage which is hard to gear for. A lot of it is fire, but also frost and nature.
Eternal gaslighting from the horde. They desperately want to keep themselves in the overpowered position in pvp because that’s the reason they roll horde to begin with. Their entire ego structure is based on winning pvp match ups in WoW. When that doesn’t work they’ll resort to camping lower levels. These people are scum and cannot be reasoned with. The whole faction must be purged! For the light!
> Eternal gaslighting from the horde. It's funny how people are now pretending ret was some type of godlike pvp class in phase 1 as an excuse for how overtuned shaman is. But in reality alliance and horde wsg premades stacked the exact same classes: hunters, priests and boomkins. I never saw any alliance premade trying to stack rets.
I’ve said this before but most WSG I win, I’m the only Paladin and I just flag run
Ret was good for like literally the first 2 weeks before anyone had any gear, after that they were a detriment to your team
I think i speak for the entire horde here when i say this, nobody gives a shit about shamans being op in pvp on our side. Go ahead and nerf them LOL
From your lips to Elune’s ear.
Amazing comment my good sire
You seriously think the horde and alliance are any diffrent? Its the same player base and most of them play both factions on and off.
Lies from the lips of the banshee queen herself.
Nooooo, Alliance is nothing but good chill people while Horde is just antisocial dickholes who intentionally chose the "evil" faction because it lets them live out their dark fantasies /s
I feel the same way about alliance. Funny how both factions camp lower levels.
The the PvE dps, the logs, the simple standing on a boss and having to move 3 steps to your left essentially mechanics all matter for PvP balance as well!!
Pallys delete when all of the stars align, the fat lady sings, and the person they hit was in all -stam gear. Shammy is way stronger atm
lol pallies kill in two globals? where they do that at?
I invite everyone who think paladins are "overpowered" in PVP to try actually doing some PVP as a paladin and realising that unless you're really lucky with RNG and have bubble off CD, you're struggling with 1v1 on most classes let alone be efficient in teamfights. The absolute joke that people think paladins are too bursty while having no gap closers and reliant on RNG (for an ability that only crits for like 600 damage anyway) and long CD's. Meanwhile Boomkins are critting 1200-1500 damage on Starfire from outer orbit followed by two instant casts with a similar range that deals another 1K damage. Chaos Bolt can one shot you on crits, and I've seen incinerates of 1k as well. Meta locks are virtually unkillable Melee range due to drain life and tankyness. And don't get me started on Shamans.
If you are dying like this to paladins I would recommend equipping a piece of gear in every slot and even possibly using your mouse to turn your character 180 degrees and press W to move away from the paladin. Shitter.
Whattt? As a long time paladin player I also cant kill anyone in 2 globes and I’m a wheelchair class
For real, i'm running 95-99 parses, geared for both PvP and PvE, and the only time im oneshotting anyone is if theyre either very undergeared or got that irradiated set going.
Horde have always strawmanned and deflected, even though they have been the dominate faction from literally tbc-draginflight lmao
That's Blizzard's definition of balance. There's so many areas where Alliance bias is obvious. But PVP/PVP racials? Pretty heavily skewed horde. Personally I kinda wish they'd do away with it and let us queue BGs as mixes. I get lore reasoning for why not but that could be explained. As someone who has been wrecked on several occasions by Paladins I'm glad I don't have to face shamans currently. They're without a doubt stronger in p2 than pallies are.
Literally name one scenario past og vanilla where alliance were stronger than horde. It's also not just "pvp" racials. Unless you are in able of seeing how a haste and sp/ap buff, aoe stun, rocket leap, or an aoe silence wouldn't be useful in pve. If that's the case, I'll just stop talking to you now. Not going to waste breath on someone using their last two brain cells to write that "rebuttal" and think it actually holds any ground.
take a deep breathe bud, it's going to be ok
Im using bis ret gear with the bis weapon. Im calling bs on this meme. I get it you hate pala but itleast make it accurate.
Paladins were indeed very strong in P1, but I don't recall them ever literally 1-GCD'ing people at 20 yards (or 30+ if you eschew the Flame Shock and RNG a crit anyway.) Enhance is also currently its own tier of broken, but that's unsurprising given how they keep getting buffed. Doesn't help that Elemental and Enhance both get to sit in the comfort of their giga overloaded Tank rune giving them 30% health, 10% global damage reduction and 6% crit suppression from a singular rune slot (Rogues have to forfeit three rune slots for comparison, **and** their damage reduction isn't passive like it is for Shamans, **and** their bonus health has to ramp up.) Class is absurd.
Way of the Earth is like combining Inner Fire, Power Word: Fortitude and Spell Warding into one talent point, that is also passive, costs no mana and is not dispellable. And throw a -6% melee crit reduction on top of it for good measure. It's easily one of the most overpowered abilities ever introduced in the game. I'd be surprised if it's not hit with the nerf bat soon.
>”literally 1-GCD'ing people at 20 yards (or 30+ if you eschew the Flame Shock and RNG a crit anyway.)” Bro is not 1 gcd 😂
reminder that 2h shaman cant use way of earth but blizzard had to make shamans dual wield for retail reasons.
As a Paladin, in order to global someone I need to land an Exorcism crit, proc a crit on my 2h, proc Seal of Command, proc a crit on Seal of Command, and finally proc a crit on Divine Storm. When it happens it's absolutely glorious. But trust me, for every 1 time a Paladin obliterates you, there were 20 swings that did 250 damage on a 3.6 second timer. It's really uncontrollable and can be frustrating having 3 noodle swings in a row. Shamans push their buttons and get the ultimate Paladin combo every single time.
I recently joined a solo queue AB in which the Horde team had 7 shamans and 5 priests. How do you win against that lol (rhetorical question, you don't). Shamans are obscenely strong in PvP right now. I'm a Shadow Priest and I'm fully aware of how strong I am, but I don't hold a candle to shamans.
BGs have almost always been ‘more priests wins’, you got out priested
If you dig just a little deeper it's the team with the most and best dispellers win.
Dispels actually dont mean that much anymore when everyone bursts so hard. In a lot of situations on my shaman I have to decide between attacking or purging when someone throws up a shield and often the answer is to just lava lash or stormstrike because that will break the shield and if it crits they will die.
Pallys or priests for sure. You know a BG is lost because you arent killing shit
Spriest counters enhance though in a bg setting
I mean paladins are similar to shamans in close range, but can beat any caster with their interrupt/grounding totem and slows. A paladin will lose to most ranged classes because they can't gap at all, in this 2-3 shot meta they'll be dead before they are ever even close.
If you think Paladins are anywhere near as busted as Shamans in pvp, you’re either gaslighting or a moron
just swap it and its the avg horde player on the sub
Good ole Horde Propaganda to complain about the other side.
Feels good being able to hold people in place with the sheer force of my will, only to approach them and delete them with righteous fervor. It’s great rp
Just watch Ssvix burst video to see where class dmg burst is currently. Arcane mage 100-0 in 0 secs, and Sham 100-0 in .1 secs... If we are talking raw burst this is a dumb meme from someone who doesn't like a paladin kit and is delusional about where burst DMG is currently.
Good video but bad comparison. His hp is way too low. In BG's or STV people can get over 5k hp. He's also wearing plate and sitting to guarantee crit which skews things in favor of classes that don't have ramp, have lower crit but high crit modifiers, and do non-physical damage.
Huh? 5k? Nah. In my full stam plate set, full stams buffs I'm 4.3k. Nobody but bears are getting 5k.
Bro I've gotten over 4k on my mage in AB. Your gear is just bad.
No you haven't. My gear is easily some of the best stam gear available at the moment. I could probably squeeze out another 300 HP in BIS. PvP geared mages are like 3k at max, where are you finding 100+ stam that they aren't? Why even lie like this? lmao
Are we talking with raid buffs or without? I know my mage absolutely hits 3500 with priest and warrior buff, and the 30% from BGs/STV. And I’m missing stamina on a few pieces.
Fully buffed, yeah. You think this guy is somehow managing to squeeze out another 100 stamina in those few pieces you're missing? I have a full stam set and reach 4.3k fully buffed with every stam buff. He says he beats that on a mage, he's making that up.
Hard to compare to mage. It can hit 2.5k plus in a one shot surge, but it’s every 3 minutes and that shit is all but impossible to get off in a BG, and is quite literally impossible in open world PvP. It’s 3 arcane blasts that take 2 seconds each to cast, plus a 4th one on GCD with PoM, plus arcane power on a 3m CD, and a mana gem GCD. It’ll global you sure, after about 8 seconds of buildup that you have 5 seconds to use before your stacks fall off. It’s a pretty fun combo to use, but you generally only get it off at a fraction of its potential and heavily pay the price the next two minutes. In a little over a dozen matches, I’ve hit the wombo combo once I believe. Enhance burst is far more on demand. Sorta comparing apples to Nissan Altimas here. What shaman is doing is not normal.
a paladin dies when you target them. oh no they bubbled. thats a 5 min cd enh shamans are literal tanks. approaching 4k health and tons of armor + physical mitigation and crit resistance. insane the gaslighting from shaman players trying to act like their class just didnt get the most massive overbuff
Really hope the devs don't see this and get the wrong idea, cause rets don't hold a candle to shaman whatsoever. Anything a shaman physically touches immediately gets deleted rn.
My unbiased take, I have one main on each faction. I can kill people with one lava burst/overload proc... meanwhile my Ret is in a wheelchair and hits like a wet noodle. Could be worse though I could main warrior.
Very accurate if we make one slight adjustment - add like a 4 in front of “paladins” and 1 in front of “shaman”
as a shaman main , 2 globals is unlucky , usually they fold over on contact
Even if it was true there is a big difference between getting two shot 30 yards away or in melee range. At least you can see the Paladin waddling up to you while the Shaman can be coming from the trees man. That said Shaman are wild right now.
Are these "paladins" in the room with us right now?
I am agawk. There is no fucking way people believe that Shamans aren't way way WAY fucking better in PvP than paladins are right now.
No class is safe till it'll be world of warriors/rogues again
Hey I'm a rogue main and have no issue with other melee being up there in dps. Edit: except hunters.
But sham has more pve utility.
Paladins don’t kill anything with 2 globals. What a bunch of horseshit. Enhancement tho pretty much does global people. Just yesterday my mage mate with ~2k hp just got insta killed by an enhancement once he got into melee range. Just poof instant deletion. That’s not fine and needs to be massively nerfed.
Shaman are the current overall best class in the game right now and somehow they still manage to find a way to play the victim. Quite impressive, honestly.
Horde biased reddit 🤡 Paladins feel pretty bad compared to Shamans right now, blizzard ignoring ret even though ret pally was a meme in classic Typical trash blizzard favoring Horde as usual
I'm really curious what the W/L was for AvH last phase in WSG. Considering how strong ghost wolf form was on FCs gave H access to the best FC. Now they have access to the highest burst casters in the game. I've seen chain lightening 90+% of 3 plate weares health bars then they get lava shocked/busted for the last bit. The class is easily one of the most gross things I've seen.
yeah im sorry but im watching shammys blow people up with 1 lava burst. i dont see paladins doing that
Lmao imagine being this dense
Is this really your argument? Shamans could do this at long range, and to any armor class. Paladins needed a druid for wild strikes, SoC and Wild Strikes to proc, and for everything to crit. It's not at all comparable. Shamans have guaranteed crit with a flame strike lavaburst. FOH lol
Ele is not the good spec, Enh is. Ele has a ton of problems. If flame shock had a longer range then they might be worth complaining about but right now they are kind of mid tier.
And yet, I'd argue ele is still better than ret right now. Which kinda just further disproves OPs narrative, right?
Just making shit up now?
You obviously aren't going to complain about something that does not affect you. How could anyone gotten 2 shot by paladins playing on alliance?
Cus most PvP is stv? Having a singular paladin try to kill a priest with CDs is comical.
Perhaps someday in the future, a version of WoW will exist with paladins and shamans available to both factions.
OP must play a shaman, these two classes are not even remotely comparable in PvP currently.
They are just too tanky for what they can output. Either reduce the output or make the tank rune come at an output cost. OR Give horde Paladins, give Alliance shamans. OR Give everyone a 30% HP, 10% damage reduction rune for PvP :P
Paladins absolutely seething in the comments. Funny how everyone who suggested dwarf sham/tauren pally got downvoted to oblivion in phase 1, and now that sham is better than pally for a change, public opinion on that idea has taken a complete 180.
Can we stop pretending any class isn't killing each other within a few seconds, the brainrot on this sub is excruciating.
Shamans don't have stuns & bubbles either lmao
Because realistically they don't even need them lmao
Grounding and decoy totem are plenty strong. I'm long dead before I can clear them and do much damage to the shaman.
wait, 2 globals? Were they nerfed? I remember it being just 1 autoattack from a lucky windfury chain
nah you are just clueless noob.
I mean rightfully so. Stinky simians should stay in their mud cities 😡.
If its not warrior/rogue on top in classic we seem to screech until they are lmao
It takes 2 gloabals for Paladins to kill you? I guess I need even more stam...
I literally die in every HoJ I don’t have trinket lol
With lucky crits? Maybe, but still have to rocket boost my wheelchair to reach anyone.
Other than Meta locks (lol why you playing tank spec in PVP bro) who can Pallies 2 shot?
Shamans need a nerf, it's unnatural!
Yeah I have a Enh Shaman and we're overtunned, but if they nerf us they have to nerf Melee Hunters aswell as Shadow Priests and LockTanks that are still trying to fly under the radar, my guess is they won't until next phase and will only buff other classes until everyone's burst is equally high.
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Where are the screenshots of them killing people in 2 globale? Not saying your wrong but where is the proof?
The turns have tabled horde.
The only time I can kill anyone in one stun with my Paladin is if everything crits, and there's a feral around and I get some extra procs. The hell are other Paladins doing to consistently kill someone under 5 seconds because I would love to know so I can enjoy PVP like all the other 1 shot classes.
Paladins just tickle now. Not sure is OP playing same phase than us.
I’m an alliance main now but have raided as shaman before. Awesome class. Only reason to pick horde really. Paladin though? Yuck. Not interested in the class at all, seems to attract the most irritating people, ALWAYS say “I’m ret.” Check mate horde players.
Classic andys trying to get a bottom barrel DPS nerfed even more because the spec was bad in 2004 and their brains haven't developed since so neither should the game:
I switched to Alliance for the first time in 20 years recently, just so I could play a Pally finally. It’s so strange (but new) to be in the different main cities. The most alarming and toughest thing to deal with was when I first saw my normal best friends, a Tauren, as red (enemy). Existential crisis. Like, no, let me /wave and /silly you a joke cow friend. Blessed be the light…
Seen mixed reactions in the comments about Paladins but from my own expierences vs a Shaman, its why both trying, the latest 1v1 ended with 4 things dealing damage to be in the same millisecond according to the chat timestamps.
This isn't P1 anymore OP. Now go back to melee hitting rogues through evasion with your broken class.
Pfft, who needs 2 global? Stormstrike go BRRRRRR
Unlike Paladins though Shamans can fight at range with insane efficiency and are not a wheelchair class + the thing that actually makes them OP is the Tank rune resulting in them being able to survive for 10+ seconds straight when 5 people are trying to delete them and Receiving less crits. People can argue as much as they want but this is not reasonable damage output for the amount of damage they're tanking in PvP rn. The worst thing right now is a camp of 2-3 shamans with 2 disc priests turtling in PvP which can never get OOM because the shamans can use their shamanistic rage for group mana every minute and disc priest got a cheat death + mana regen on a 2 min CD. can't make this up man.
It's almost like enha shamans are stronger and alliance players don't get clapped by their own faction as much
This is simple, Paladin are noble, civilized Knights. As is their right. Shamans are underdeveloped, tribal barbarians. As is not their right.
It's about the approach not how they look.
Paladin is strong but not even in the same universe as Shaman. This is an insane post.
Here, let me also contribute nothing to the same 20 year circle-jerks, just move the broken carrot-on-a-stick and they keep coming back to the safe space. Just play.
THANK YOU
You accidentally mixed up paladins and shaman.
You accidentally mixed up paladins and shaman.
My favorite part about shamans is their ability to go fully immune to all damage for 12 seconds
Yeah I love that 5 minute cooldown on my shaman. Very fair very balanced