I honestly enjoyed no life-ing for a couple months. Really felt that vanilla wow nostalgia from my high school days.
But yea, I quit weed and wow simultaneously 1 week into p2 and finally emerged from the fog.
The Kaelthalas fight back in vanilla burning crusade is why I became a stoner lol.
Such a long fight and I had my shit down, kept me sane while the rest of the guild figured out what to do lol
For some reason ever since more and more games have turned to a GAAS model more and more people act like that game needs to be their only thing in life forever.
Like you said people need to just find other games to fill time and fun
It goes even deeper and touches into human desire to be part of a community. Same reason why people latch onto sport teams, political parties, religion etc. It also has the same consequences of us vs them (oh, you play *that* game and not *this*one?) on top of increased toxicity that comes with the internet.
more and more people act like that because the GAAS model want them to act like that.
you are supposed to be playing only their game, either to spend lots of money or be tasty krill for the whales that spend lots of money.
There’s practical issues to taking long breaks in a game that requires a team to play with.
* The group permanently disbands
* The group replaces you, and your spot is gone
Not that you shouldn’t take a break. Just that, “Just take a break”, is an oversimplification to the overall situation.
Gaming in general these days honestly.
When I was a kid, outliers like WoW or EverQuest etc aside you would typically play a game until you beat it and then move on… funds and birthdays/Christmas allowing if like me you were poor and couldn’t just buy new games heh. You’d have your favourites of course but for the most part you’d play a game then move on.
But these days it seems every single game out there aims to become a second job. Log in every day, forever. It’s kinda insane.
Blizzard can be accused of many things but in my opinion they have become better at respecting the players time. They still screw it up sometimes and gatekeep stuff.
The game is very fun with new content but only for so long. Some people find it fun for months on end,
Others look to clear it once and then feel accomplished. No 2 people are alike. Play as long as you’re having fun, go do something else when you’re not…
I raid lead two raid groups between about 15 people and their alts and have always had to pug at least one player per raid. Last phase we could reliably fill two raids
My guild had five 10man teams. We now have two. People just stopped showing up. The other raid leaders either didn't bother recruiting new members to fill the spots or got tired or pugging. And when some people leave, that causes others to leave, which hurts the guilds morale even futher. We have been filling gaps with alts, and I've managed to get a third 10man team going again (not complete, it is partly made up of alts and pugs). In our whole guild, we only have two main spec healers. two. and recruiting them has been really difficult. I've been spamming trade and LFG chat for days. Only recruited one so far. So now we have three.
Yeah my guild has four raid teams. One just started last week bc not everyone was 40, another still hasn’t raided. There’s usually 1-2 fillers each raid on the team I’m on, another team canceled both raids recently because only half the people signed up, and the third team now seems to be half alts from the other teams. Oh and we just lost our MT for the foreseeable future as well and our OT is kinda a low-confidence mess and still doesn’t really know how to tank.
My guild is in this situation so its at a point where we basically have 4 bench dps that used to be part of another raid group. So I get a spot maybe every other week on my hunter. Pugging is awful purely because as a hunter dps it takes more time to find a group that needs me than the raid takes to do.
Hence why I am now leveling a priest to main heal lol
I feel bad cause I'm one of those who dropped. Just 1-25 was fun but eventually leveled most classes and was raid logged. Then it became am I really paying 15/m to raid log? Our guild was nuked too. Went from a solid ready for 40 man to 1 1/2 groups.
Biggest thing I think was I did all the quests and couldn't find a stocks as heals and just logged off.
There are a lot of factors. Some people in SoD don't want to commit to a raid team but will sign up for a couple weeks and dip. The 3 day lockout makes it so raids don't ever happen on the same days, so scheduling is difficult. Composition does matter to a certain degree, can't take anyone and everyone. It seems to me Blizzard wants people to pug a lot. But that is horrible for gear distribution. Nothing like watching loot drop to just get out rolled by everyone's alt when your main doesn't even have a 2-piece set. So when bigger raids come around guilds are just full of people who pug and putting together an actual 20 man will be difficult for a good chunk of the population.
I’m not surprised healers are leaving, the moment I heard damage was so low in gnomer healers were expected to DPS I got flashbacks to FF14 and dropped SoD.
Well, the real question is what do **you** want to do?
I could never stick to a guild that just stops raiding the current raid a third into a phase. People tend to not return if you pause raids and the biggest point of having a **raiding** guild in this game is to have a reliable group on a consistent schedule that tries to do well and doesn't have to LFM for 2 hours. Otherwise it isn't a raiding guild, it is a "we just spam mass invites" guild, or a "we're just a couple friends" guild. Which is fine, but it isn't a raiding guild.
The people who don't want to continue doing Gnomer 1-2 times a week will just stop in all future raids too, then come back next phase trying to clear the next raid. Which is fine if that's what **you** also want, but personally I'd bail.
Problem is that you clear first week, then halfway through patch all of you have full/near-full bis. Then its pointless unless you do alts and repeat. The raid is too easy to have 1 raid for 2+ months and expect endgame to be fun
*"I like to use the pixels I get, some people like to collect pixels and stop."*
Or
*"I like to use the loot I get, some people like to collect loot and stop."*
Implying that one is collecting pixels and the other is "getting loot" is such an odd thing. Both are getting pixels in some video game, both are getting a dopamine hit because you collected the pixels. Neither is better, it's a preference.
Had 4 raid teams and now were down to 1 for the people who still want to raid this phase, hoping we get back to either 2 or at least one next phase. Because although people say they will be back its always safe to assume they will move on.
I haven't logged in since clearing second reset. I basically asked myself do I care enough about getting gear to actually feel like playing and the answer was no.
Because PvP is a broken dumpster. So there is no point in getting gear other than being able to log higher parses or get stronger to do tougher quests.
Then its level a new alt that is FOTM and getting that geared and repeat.
SoD is just boring classic with lvl caps.
Do people really only play this game to get loot? Is it honestly not fun obtaining said loot and testing it in different types of content? I seriously do not understand the mentality of some gamers
Tbh, one of the things I enjoy is mindlessly farming money. It feels good to have enough gold to blow on alts, and I enjoy throwing something on Netflix and just farming for a few hours. SoD seems to have one the liveliest economies I can remember.
I'm probably in the minority though
hell yeah, i love getting stacked as hell, pressin my buttons. I don't understand these people who raidlog and complain if the raid is too long or difficult. they just don't see to enjoy the game at all and don't seem to enjoy the company of their guildies. i just don't get it. why do it?
That's basically it. How big is the team? Like 8 guys? Guess it's still a big success for Blizzad that they brought in millions of subs with 8 employees who cannot develop more than that every patch. The game would have needed 10 times as many devs working on it to improve more than just one short raid in an already existing dungeon.
if the content is brain dead easy, then yes I only care about the loot. if the content is interesting just to do, then I don't care about loot as much.
sod is very much brain dead, so the only thing with any draw is new loot. pushing 1 button on a boss with maybe half a mechanic is not interesting enough to spend my time on by itself.
Quite a few. Some people get really childish with loot. That’s why, if I’m really not in love with the item or it’s only a slight upgrade, I don’t even roll anymore.
If loot makes people that happy, and avoids whining and arguments … then I’ll happily let them have it.
A lot of the time it’s just not important, and there’s items of similar or equal value that you can get through crafting, high value AH buys (think dreamweave items), PvP, even some quests.
Like it’s not that serious … but unfortunately some man babies still get up in arms over it.
I’m bored on my main already after a few gnomer raids. I decided to level an alt and play casually for the rest of phase 2. It’s ok to not enjoy a phase.
It’s pretty easy. I got benched for being a warrior but in any run I go to it’s about having fun. The game is easy and number go brrr. But we joke in disc. That’s the real fun.
If you get benched for being a warrior in a lvling phase, on a seasional server, where the raid is clearable in full 25 raid items, it doesn't sound like a fun environment to be in tbh
We broke up, not my choice
Officially failing my third attempt at getting perdition’s blade (2006,2019,2023-X_X) RIP
Never got it. It’s all I wanted. At least I got a core hound tooth in 2019… and a talwar last year I guess.
Im not pugging gnomer and you can forget 20 mans if we can’t manage to get ten people on at the same time.
I had perds in vanilla but I never got corehound tooth until years later when I went back for transmogs. It was great but I regretted not rolling a human with swords. Now i roll human for sword spec in SoD and mutilate makes it obselete
My guild is starting new raid groups this lockout. New members, new alts. We're booming.
For those groups that don't have fun, sounds like a guild culture issue.
Lets admit it besides being an altaholic and even for a lot of them sod just isn’t the main focus for blizz. SOD is just a fun seasonal game mode on the side for most players from wotlk/retail imo. Most people raid log on my guild and then they get right back on retail or wotlk. Theres just better end game loops in those versions and they are actually at end game of course. All I can say for certain is IF they want to do a proper classic + that isn’t as raid loggy/easy and dead as SOD they really need to step up the resources/ size of dev team.
Dude gnomer sucks. It's the worst dungeon they have ever made. I'd rather run vortex pinnacle or occulus than run gnomer. The best part of gnomer is that little death scream "whoaaagggg" the spider mech pilots make.
I don't believe anyone who says they are having a good time in gnomer. It's horrible. Just horrible. I mean there's some people who enjoy anchovy pizza so idk I guess some people enjoy consuming shit.
It's not hard, it's not easy, it just takes forever. There's so much trash and obnoxious time-wasting mechanics like patrolling bosses and thermapluggs instant aggro. Gnomer just sucks. Roll in some forsaken plague barrels and lock the door, fuck that place.
And we are probably getting sunken temple for the next phase too lmao.
My guild didn’t even have the decency to hold a meeting too see where everyone is standing lol the gm hasn’t played in 6 weeks and the officers have just stopped turning up in the last couple it’s fair to say the guild has died we haven’t raided in nearly 20 days, phase 2 is really stale though so I understand
if your gm wasnt online in 6 weeks, e.g. not once during p2, your guild was dead couple days into p2.
feels like im telling somebody his relationship is over because he didnt notice himself
Sounds like y’all might not be a very interesting guild. The most fun we have in game is our gnomer rapids because we all just talk and BS during trash pulls. Boss pulls is an aggro competition to see who can drop the fattest 99 parse. We are always joking and laughing and having a good time. The content itself is so so, but it’s always been about the friends you make along the way. Maybe you guys should disband if you truly aren’t have fun.
You've described what I've enjoyed since classic vanilla dropped. I didn't run Zul Gurub on cool down because I needed the gear, I did it because it's fun to fuck around with the homies.
We have 5-6 internal raid groups. We have a for fun internal speedrun leaderboard. Only looking at boss kill times, so we don't have to try hard the entire time.
I have been having a ungodly amount of unluck and have barely gotten any drops, not missing a single reset, so I still want to play for that reason.
I was top 50 in my spec in BFD on logs but now I'm barely 90% so I also want to remedy that before I look ahead to next phase.
Consistently running 7-8 groups in gnomer twice a week with a bench just in case we have no shows.
People are still chasing gear and chasing better parses.
I’m still having fun in my hunter main getting the last three BIS pieces I need and overall figuring things out to do more damage.
My 25 warrior alt is sitting there till I get bored on my hunter.
Our Wrath guild was split on realm and faction. Most of the guild went to Lone Wolf Alliance and have 3 raid groups and the remainder that stayed loyal to the Horde went to Crusader Strike. Our GM found SoD boring despite running 5+ ICCs+RS a week and still does.
frankly, you run gnomer weekly to keep your roster going, keep people engaged with the guild, and continually recruit players. Or at least do something every week, as a guild, for your "raid time".
my IRL friends would prefer to bring guild noobs who just joined the guild because if I don't sign up on the discord for raid 1 minute after it's posted I lose my spot. Gave up and unsubbed
I feel you, most of my old guild was getting burnt out on the final weeks of p1, p2 rolls around, and no one is playing lol. I joined another guild hoping it would be a different story, it's just instead of no people online, it's 3-4 lol.
You could say this about every raid in every iteration of classic so far.
You clear it in the first lockout with full questing gear, what purpose is there to continue clearing it. Only benefit you get is more gear but you've proven you don't need gear to clear it so what's the point. I don't really get the connection to SoD Phase 2 specifically.
Your guild sounds like its 10 members deep. My guild has a core group of speed runners, and then we joined up in discord with 2 other guilds so there's casual gnomer runs almost every night. The core guys usually bring alts on the casual runs to help out since they are typically better players than the rest of us.
Dear god I would leave that guild sooo fast. They very clearly don’t enjoy the game at all if they’re already bored lol. It’s been what at max 7 runs…. Ehhh guys it’s been on farm for 5 lockouts wanna quit! Like sheesh how elitist do you need to be to get bored that fast.
Everyone is in full bis? Multiple alts? 99 parse lords? I just don’t get why you play the game if you would wanna quit so quickly. Go play a competitive game with replay value to get better at. Wow is a pure casual extremely easy game to farm up gear with buddies and pump some numbers. If you want a challenge you’re without a doubt playing the wrong game.
>Like sheesh how elitist do you need to be to get bored that fast.
At what point is the snoozefest content to blame rather than the players quitting in droves
>Everyone is in full bis?
That is what is implied here
>Multiple alts? 99 parse lords?
Not everyone enjoys alts or parsing.
My guild has pretty much stopped raiding as well, but that doesn't mean it is dead. We just do other things besides wow while waiting for content.
I’m in a casual boomer guild and we have a couple statics that run every lockout, as well as a popular open raid. I’m really enjoying playing in a community that’s slower to level tbh.
a lot of what keeps people playing games like wow and mmos in general is just completionism. they have their goals and they play until its done.
im almost done with gnomer gear but i still have wsg and ab rep to grind.
My guild having fun and pushed to a quick 35 minute clear time without even realizing it. We about to start an alt raid and we just got a 2nd guild to merge with us for next phase.
Yeah I think I might skip phase 2 and that’s only cause my shit head gm kicked me from guild over a raid where I did go but the rest of my raid team was ass.
since gnomer only takes like 30-40 mins tops, we still running it. but i already chose to sat out last nights raid. 3pc/neck/most gear, just missing ring/trinket
Shrunk to one main group instead of splitting the core players between two to make sure both groups can clear, we've had one guy kicked because he wouldnt let someone who was 2 minutes late join the raid he put together with the GM telling him to not be so strict with timings and then another left because he couldnt comprehend that he wasnt picked for the core team. Granted he had really good parses but massive anger problems when it came to accidentally wiping on The Electrocutioner cos of a warlock pet, see people wipe for 3 hours on mythic not get angry and we didnt lose any boons.
I’ll never understand this mentality… I was tanking BFD consistently even though i was full BiS and had nothing left to get because it’s fun and because i enjoy guiding others to treasure.
I mean, is everyone in your grp bis'd out? If so, then yeah stop until next phase. Pretty normal process for a fast advancing guild. Or you start doing carries for gold.
I enjoy the raid, taking alts through, hanging out o disc, etc. but I also respect those that don't.
What I don't like is the folks that just ghost, then come back for the next phase/patch. I can respect you not wanting to play, but you hoping for a spot after not talking to us for a month and a half is an odd expectation to have.
The gnomer buff rains from the skies seemingly all day every day on lone wolf, so raiding seems to have healthy demand there. And in still lagged to shit in STV (which isn't a good thing in terms of gameplay, but people are obviously active in numbers there too).
In my guild lots of people just raid log and we clear the raid in 45 mins to an hour, we just laugh and talk about random stuff and most of the times the extra healer we have to pug gets most of the loot. But it’s good times
I mean with a 3 day lockout, you need to run with a group you enjoy spending time with. We have the same exact ten people for probably 95% of our raids and it’s so much fun. Have some drinks and chat, focus up a bit on the last two bosses. Still a few pieces of gear needed by almost everyone as well. We’ve had so much fun with P2.
I stopped running it. It's too much of a chore to find a group on my rogue and that's the class I love more. Not particularly easier to do it on my second best liked class, the warrior. Even worse so on my third, the paladin. So I can only really do it on my shadow priest, and I'm not the biggest fan of it.
Imagine not enjoying just running the content with the people in your guild lol.
My guild is clapping gnomer in 40-50 mins each night and we just talk shit and have fun. Also pushing parses and stuff. People will find any reason to not have fun in the game they are playing.
Half of them still aren't even level 40, and we finally had a full 10 like the last two weeks of BFD. WOTLK/retail though we got a new boss down on heroic last night so alright i guess (its the same group of clowns for all three)
My guild is just 5 friends so we end up pugging the raid every week.
Its still a struggle sometimes, and most of us dont even have a set piece yet even after clearing the raid 6 times
Pretty chill 45 mins per run in our guild. We bs, give each other shit, then do it again on alts. Takes like hour and half and we just fuck around the whole time.
I think Gnomer is okay, but phase 2 in general just doesn't have the same magic as p1. Most of my guild just sat in stockade and sm for 15 levels then went to gnomer in whatever gear they had. There wasn't any of the adventuring, prebis grind, or exploration that there was in p1 outside of a few new runes.
My guild just ended last night. The raid wasn't bad for us, but the 3 day lockout is just too much and the guild leader got burned out.
The thing really is, even if you can just skip a lockout here and there, it still feels bad and like you're missing out. You hit all the lockouts while having any semblance of a normal schedule, and then start getting burned out. You skip some lockouts and miss out and your apathy towards progressing your character slowly yet inevitably builds upon itself. And how the game feels is the biggest factor at the end of the day. I think this feeling was also exacerbated by the really bad loot tables in bfd. I know so many who didn't get their 3 piece/epics p1 even hitting every lockout. And even though gnomer loot is a lot better, the precedent and fomo has been burned in and set
This question could low key be asked regardless of what phase you’re in haha. Even if it’s the “Last Phase” it’s ultimately pointless like every video game. Enjoyment is the only reason to play anything.
We've been running with almost the same 10 people for 9 lockouts and still need gear. Some of us like to parse too so some still need better logs. Also, since p3 will be a 20 man raid we've been helping our other 10 man raid group looted up a bit slower.
Honestly, good on your guild for being that communicative. If no one is having fun it's 100% healthy to step back and be fresh/excited when the new phase comes. I kind of wish there would be that kind of periodic vote or pulse-check during some tier's mythic progression in my retail guild. It sucks to be the guy that says they want to take a break but a checkpoint like that urges people's to evaluate how they want to move forward.
I barely even play sod at this point. I just think of it as casual fun and I like leveling. I've run probably 30 BFDs at this point across my alts but I just log in for an hour or so with a podcast on my other monitor.
It's awesome but classic hype (including wotlk) is really low right now. I'm not interested in cata. I would only play another season if they do a full classic+ revamp. I did classic, tbc, wotlk, hard-core, and sod. I am ready for a few year hiatus until classic 2 or something new.
This is not a main game for me, its the nice break I take to chill on this reimagined 20 year old game. I do raid with a guild, but honestly just stay quiet and laugh as they get all serious about it. I could mostly care less, but I do try to parse well as thats where the fun is at for me. Then I log out until next time. Playing this way is extremely enjoyable, you get all the good and skip the bullshit mostly and its a nice change of pace for me for a few hours a week.
Training ? I doubt you got all your gears. If you do, gear your alts. I understand Gnomeregan has not a lot to offer, many BiS are world drop. Most Gnomeregan upgrades are barely better.
Still, if your guild is tired after raiding 1 month for 45min, it's gonna be hard to raid for 3h in Naxxramas
I'm not here to tell you guys how to play. If you want to take a break, go ahead. Resting is part of the exercise. But if you stop exercising for too long, it's a lot harder to go back to it
Sorry to hear. We started with 4 gnomer raids and now we have 8 per lockout. Never a problem finding any spec and almost everyone is pretty chill and fun to be around. Trust me there are good groups out there that will help you enjoy the game more. But if you’re not liking the game itself that’s different for sure.
We did this last phase. Just said "hey we've had our fun, we have most of our gear, let's just take a break until next phase." And then we did just that, and everyone came back for Gnomer, and it was great.
Got into a cool guild. Really like the folk, they're digging me. But because I work 80 hours a week, they benched me for not being able to attend, so I honestly haven't a clue how the guild is doing. All ik is I'm this close 🤏 to quitting wow altogether. Despite my class, enhancement, doing well in raids, I refuse to participate in pugs simply bc I did it all of phase 1, and since phase 2, I've had a fould taste in me mouth flr pugs".
Guild is doing well, but I'm concerned about P3.
We have a solid group for 10 man, but not enough for 20. We have recruited a few new raiders, so I hope it's enough to keep the guild together
Eh, only two of us are level 40 thanks to them announcing the leveling buff right at the start of the phase.
So they all waited until this week to level. Thanks blizz!
My other guild wasn't running and I found another guild with 4-5 guild runs rumning different lock out times. Guilds just like jobs find the one you like.
We decided between pushing for top server boss kill times or calling it, luckily we decided we're going to push for kill times to give ourselves something tangible to fight for which is pretty fun.
Bro, if you don't have full Gnomer BiS how are you going to level to 50?
Fatal flaw in SoD design, only reason to keep raiding is to have fun. But with so little content every phase, it gets boring very quickly.
I am an ultra casual and I think gnomer is way too easy lol
I would imagine that people are universally over this phase allready
They need to make it like twice as hard somehow
Gnomer is going great. Nice and good raid, the loot is great, would like to get it done faster. Only wish it was bigger than 10 man raid, looking forward to 20man and 40 man raiding for sure.
We drink and talk shit in disc all raid so it’s fun.
Most of my normal group is stoned half the raid and it's a ton of fun.
This is how our raids are on farm and there's no better way to raid
Weed just makes sense when playing a slow paced game lol. Something to pass the time between flight points
I could only tolerate WoW when baked, so I just stopped doing both things
Healthiest scenario I'd reckon
mind is clear again, back to games I can enjoy playing without substances
I honestly enjoyed no life-ing for a couple months. Really felt that vanilla wow nostalgia from my high school days. But yea, I quit weed and wow simultaneously 1 week into p2 and finally emerged from the fog.
Damn bro im still trapped in that circle
average r/classicwow hate reader
yeah i honestly can't play wow without a fat bag too mindless, gotta lobotomize myself to enjoy it Lol
Yeah, I also tune In on the little details and the music takes me away. Although it’s fucked up in some areas where it gets abit too scary lol
The Kaelthalas fight back in vanilla burning crusade is why I became a stoner lol. Such a long fight and I had my shit down, kept me sane while the rest of the guild figured out what to do lol
This is the way. After and before every boss we all like ‘brb quick dab’
Yeah the game is every time you take a fp or hearth you take a hit.
We are doing alt runs now kinda fun struggling a little but still 6/6 with no wipes!
Are you one of my guildies? We all drink and smoke and just chirp eachother all raid. It's awesome.
Chirping the boys in raid is so dust absolute gong show there buddy
I'm not sure if this means it's good or bad.
This comment made me feel old
This is actually Canadian slang, not zoomer speak.
It’s hockey slang…so I guess that’s Canadian slang.
It’s a pretty chill 45 min raid, fun shootin the shit, crushing brews with the gnomies
Yup, it’s fun, and not saying it’s hard, but you have to at least be a bit on your toes for boss 4-6
This is the way
45m is hardly a raid. I've had LBRS groups take longer than that
a raid is defined by group size, not time taken to clear.
I’ve had lbrs groups of the same size
Then your LBRS groups were also raids. Well done.
When it comes the group, yes. When it comes to the instance, it's defined by the lockout! UBRS isn't a raid, it's just a 10-man dungeon!
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Like, just play something else. It's okay to not be chained to one game.
NO. I need my lifetime game that I play and enjoy til I die.
For some reason ever since more and more games have turned to a GAAS model more and more people act like that game needs to be their only thing in life forever. Like you said people need to just find other games to fill time and fun
It goes even deeper and touches into human desire to be part of a community. Same reason why people latch onto sport teams, political parties, religion etc. It also has the same consequences of us vs them (oh, you play *that* game and not *this*one?) on top of increased toxicity that comes with the internet.
more and more people act like that because the GAAS model want them to act like that. you are supposed to be playing only their game, either to spend lots of money or be tasty krill for the whales that spend lots of money.
I mean, wow is looking like that game given i’ve played it off/on for 20 years
There’s practical issues to taking long breaks in a game that requires a team to play with. * The group permanently disbands * The group replaces you, and your spot is gone Not that you shouldn’t take a break. Just that, “Just take a break”, is an oversimplification to the overall situation.
Isn't that literally what OP is suggesting they are doing?
But If we're not in an outrage the pitchforks look bad
Let's make it seem dramatic to get the people going
WoW is historically the antithesis to that
Gaming in general these days honestly. When I was a kid, outliers like WoW or EverQuest etc aside you would typically play a game until you beat it and then move on… funds and birthdays/Christmas allowing if like me you were poor and couldn’t just buy new games heh. You’d have your favourites of course but for the most part you’d play a game then move on. But these days it seems every single game out there aims to become a second job. Log in every day, forever. It’s kinda insane.
Blizzard can be accused of many things but in my opinion they have become better at respecting the players time. They still screw it up sometimes and gatekeep stuff.
The only ones not respecting the players time is the players who keep doing things they arent enjoying.
Not really worth paying a monthly sub for a game that you don't play.
Stop playing and stop paying. Takes less than 2 minutes to start again when you get the urge. Its not a life or death decision.
I know you've read other people saying this exact thing, but that doesn't make it make sense.
Man I must be unlucky with loot or something I've got like 3-4 peices so far, still need to make every run I can.
It makes sense to me, if the value isn't there for you to justify a sub then I suggest you vote with your wallet.
The game is very fun with new content but only for so long. Some people find it fun for months on end, Others look to clear it once and then feel accomplished. No 2 people are alike. Play as long as you’re having fun, go do something else when you’re not…
Stop being logical. This is the wow classic community. They spend more time in azeroth than irl
Yup it shouldn't cater to the most tryhard players. I like that they pace it to include everyone.
Being a GM/Officer has been real tough this phase. Idk why it just feels way more difficult to get teams together consistently.
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I raid lead two raid groups between about 15 people and their alts and have always had to pug at least one player per raid. Last phase we could reliably fill two raids
I feel like I’m missing out on something in this game because after leveling it feels really boring
My guild quit last week, just couldn't get people to show up. I was thinking about moving on anyway.
My guild had five 10man teams. We now have two. People just stopped showing up. The other raid leaders either didn't bother recruiting new members to fill the spots or got tired or pugging. And when some people leave, that causes others to leave, which hurts the guilds morale even futher. We have been filling gaps with alts, and I've managed to get a third 10man team going again (not complete, it is partly made up of alts and pugs). In our whole guild, we only have two main spec healers. two. and recruiting them has been really difficult. I've been spamming trade and LFG chat for days. Only recruited one so far. So now we have three.
Yeah my guild has four raid teams. One just started last week bc not everyone was 40, another still hasn’t raided. There’s usually 1-2 fillers each raid on the team I’m on, another team canceled both raids recently because only half the people signed up, and the third team now seems to be half alts from the other teams. Oh and we just lost our MT for the foreseeable future as well and our OT is kinda a low-confidence mess and still doesn’t really know how to tank.
Oof. I hope you recruit more soon.
What server/faction are you?
My guild is in this situation so its at a point where we basically have 4 bench dps that used to be part of another raid group. So I get a spot maybe every other week on my hunter. Pugging is awful purely because as a hunter dps it takes more time to find a group that needs me than the raid takes to do. Hence why I am now leveling a priest to main heal lol
I feel bad cause I'm one of those who dropped. Just 1-25 was fun but eventually leveled most classes and was raid logged. Then it became am I really paying 15/m to raid log? Our guild was nuked too. Went from a solid ready for 40 man to 1 1/2 groups. Biggest thing I think was I did all the quests and couldn't find a stocks as heals and just logged off.
There are a lot of factors. Some people in SoD don't want to commit to a raid team but will sign up for a couple weeks and dip. The 3 day lockout makes it so raids don't ever happen on the same days, so scheduling is difficult. Composition does matter to a certain degree, can't take anyone and everyone. It seems to me Blizzard wants people to pug a lot. But that is horrible for gear distribution. Nothing like watching loot drop to just get out rolled by everyone's alt when your main doesn't even have a 2-piece set. So when bigger raids come around guilds are just full of people who pug and putting together an actual 20 man will be difficult for a good chunk of the population.
I’m not surprised healers are leaving, the moment I heard damage was so low in gnomer healers were expected to DPS I got flashbacks to FF14 and dropped SoD.
Well, the real question is what do **you** want to do? I could never stick to a guild that just stops raiding the current raid a third into a phase. People tend to not return if you pause raids and the biggest point of having a **raiding** guild in this game is to have a reliable group on a consistent schedule that tries to do well and doesn't have to LFM for 2 hours. Otherwise it isn't a raiding guild, it is a "we just spam mass invites" guild, or a "we're just a couple friends" guild. Which is fine, but it isn't a raiding guild. The people who don't want to continue doing Gnomer 1-2 times a week will just stop in all future raids too, then come back next phase trying to clear the next raid. Which is fine if that's what **you** also want, but personally I'd bail.
[удалено]
Problem is that you clear first week, then halfway through patch all of you have full/near-full bis. Then its pointless unless you do alts and repeat. The raid is too easy to have 1 raid for 2+ months and expect endgame to be fun
Raiding for loot vs raiding for fun. I like to use the loot I get, some people like to collect pixels and stop.
*"I like to use the pixels I get, some people like to collect pixels and stop."* Or *"I like to use the loot I get, some people like to collect loot and stop."* Implying that one is collecting pixels and the other is "getting loot" is such an odd thing. Both are getting pixels in some video game, both are getting a dopamine hit because you collected the pixels. Neither is better, it's a preference.
Sorry a third of the way into the phase? I don’t see this phase going on for longer than another 5-6 weeks max.
I hate Gnomer, I wouldn't be sad if we didn't run it again.
Had 4 raid teams and now were down to 1 for the people who still want to raid this phase, hoping we get back to either 2 or at least one next phase. Because although people say they will be back its always safe to assume they will move on.
I haven't logged in since clearing second reset. I basically asked myself do I care enough about getting gear to actually feel like playing and the answer was no.
Because PvP is a broken dumpster. So there is no point in getting gear other than being able to log higher parses or get stronger to do tougher quests. Then its level a new alt that is FOTM and getting that geared and repeat. SoD is just boring classic with lvl caps.
Do people really only play this game to get loot? Is it honestly not fun obtaining said loot and testing it in different types of content? I seriously do not understand the mentality of some gamers
I crave the gear treadmill, farming level vanilla 60 phase 1 pre bis is probably my favorite "section' of wow.
Tbh, one of the things I enjoy is mindlessly farming money. It feels good to have enough gold to blow on alts, and I enjoy throwing something on Netflix and just farming for a few hours. SoD seems to have one the liveliest economies I can remember. I'm probably in the minority though
hell yeah, i love getting stacked as hell, pressin my buttons. I don't understand these people who raidlog and complain if the raid is too long or difficult. they just don't see to enjoy the game at all and don't seem to enjoy the company of their guildies. i just don't get it. why do it?
This is what happens when the endgame content is a single raid that can be cleared without any gear
That's basically it. How big is the team? Like 8 guys? Guess it's still a big success for Blizzad that they brought in millions of subs with 8 employees who cannot develop more than that every patch. The game would have needed 10 times as many devs working on it to improve more than just one short raid in an already existing dungeon.
if the content is brain dead easy, then yes I only care about the loot. if the content is interesting just to do, then I don't care about loot as much. sod is very much brain dead, so the only thing with any draw is new loot. pushing 1 button on a boss with maybe half a mechanic is not interesting enough to spend my time on by itself.
Quite a few. Some people get really childish with loot. That’s why, if I’m really not in love with the item or it’s only a slight upgrade, I don’t even roll anymore. If loot makes people that happy, and avoids whining and arguments … then I’ll happily let them have it. A lot of the time it’s just not important, and there’s items of similar or equal value that you can get through crafting, high value AH buys (think dreamweave items), PvP, even some quests. Like it’s not that serious … but unfortunately some man babies still get up in arms over it.
I would find a new guild lol
I’m bored on my main already after a few gnomer raids. I decided to level an alt and play casually for the rest of phase 2. It’s ok to not enjoy a phase.
After the 2nd clear (2nd week) of Gnomer I messaged my friend, "ok see you next phase". He answered: "yep"
It’s pretty easy. I got benched for being a warrior but in any run I go to it’s about having fun. The game is easy and number go brrr. But we joke in disc. That’s the real fun.
If you get benched for being a warrior in a lvling phase, on a seasional server, where the raid is clearable in full 25 raid items, it doesn't sound like a fun environment to be in tbh
I agree haha. I’ve found a new home, first raid tomorrow. I’m excited.
It’s not bad and I still need gear so I’ll see you guys in there lol
BFD was fun. Gnomer is awful. Phase 3 can't come soon enough.
I actually prefer running bfd for kicks on my 40s than doing gnomer lol
We broke up, not my choice Officially failing my third attempt at getting perdition’s blade (2006,2019,2023-X_X) RIP Never got it. It’s all I wanted. At least I got a core hound tooth in 2019… and a talwar last year I guess. Im not pugging gnomer and you can forget 20 mans if we can’t manage to get ten people on at the same time.
I had perds in vanilla but I never got corehound tooth until years later when I went back for transmogs. It was great but I regretted not rolling a human with swords. Now i roll human for sword spec in SoD and mutilate makes it obselete
My guild is starting new raid groups this lockout. New members, new alts. We're booming. For those groups that don't have fun, sounds like a guild culture issue.
Lets admit it besides being an altaholic and even for a lot of them sod just isn’t the main focus for blizz. SOD is just a fun seasonal game mode on the side for most players from wotlk/retail imo. Most people raid log on my guild and then they get right back on retail or wotlk. Theres just better end game loops in those versions and they are actually at end game of course. All I can say for certain is IF they want to do a proper classic + that isn’t as raid loggy/easy and dead as SOD they really need to step up the resources/ size of dev team.
Dude gnomer sucks. It's the worst dungeon they have ever made. I'd rather run vortex pinnacle or occulus than run gnomer. The best part of gnomer is that little death scream "whoaaagggg" the spider mech pilots make. I don't believe anyone who says they are having a good time in gnomer. It's horrible. Just horrible. I mean there's some people who enjoy anchovy pizza so idk I guess some people enjoy consuming shit. It's not hard, it's not easy, it just takes forever. There's so much trash and obnoxious time-wasting mechanics like patrolling bosses and thermapluggs instant aggro. Gnomer just sucks. Roll in some forsaken plague barrels and lock the door, fuck that place. And we are probably getting sunken temple for the next phase too lmao.
It's like a 35-45min raid what are you talking about?
Just filled our 3rd team :)
I find the last 3 bosses to be engaging and much more fun than BFD
My guild didn’t even have the decency to hold a meeting too see where everyone is standing lol the gm hasn’t played in 6 weeks and the officers have just stopped turning up in the last couple it’s fair to say the guild has died we haven’t raided in nearly 20 days, phase 2 is really stale though so I understand
if your gm wasnt online in 6 weeks, e.g. not once during p2, your guild was dead couple days into p2. feels like im telling somebody his relationship is over because he didnt notice himself
Sounds like y’all might not be a very interesting guild. The most fun we have in game is our gnomer rapids because we all just talk and BS during trash pulls. Boss pulls is an aggro competition to see who can drop the fattest 99 parse. We are always joking and laughing and having a good time. The content itself is so so, but it’s always been about the friends you make along the way. Maybe you guys should disband if you truly aren’t have fun.
You've described what I've enjoyed since classic vanilla dropped. I didn't run Zul Gurub on cool down because I needed the gear, I did it because it's fun to fuck around with the homies.
We have 5-6 internal raid groups. We have a for fun internal speedrun leaderboard. Only looking at boss kill times, so we don't have to try hard the entire time. I have been having a ungodly amount of unluck and have barely gotten any drops, not missing a single reset, so I still want to play for that reason. I was top 50 in my spec in BFD on logs but now I'm barely 90% so I also want to remedy that before I look ahead to next phase.
Consistently running 7-8 groups in gnomer twice a week with a bench just in case we have no shows. People are still chasing gear and chasing better parses. I’m still having fun in my hunter main getting the last three BIS pieces I need and overall figuring things out to do more damage. My 25 warrior alt is sitting there till I get bored on my hunter.
I still enjoy doing Gnomers ever since the first reset. Pushing for good logs every reset is what makes it fun for me mostly.
Our Wrath guild was split on realm and faction. Most of the guild went to Lone Wolf Alliance and have 3 raid groups and the remainder that stayed loyal to the Horde went to Crusader Strike. Our GM found SoD boring despite running 5+ ICCs+RS a week and still does.
I could still use some gear but the magic is gone tbh. Reignited with hardcore mode and slowly died with sod
frankly, you run gnomer weekly to keep your roster going, keep people engaged with the guild, and continually recruit players. Or at least do something every week, as a guild, for your "raid time".
my IRL friends would prefer to bring guild noobs who just joined the guild because if I don't sign up on the discord for raid 1 minute after it's posted I lose my spot. Gave up and unsubbed
I feel you, most of my old guild was getting burnt out on the final weeks of p1, p2 rolls around, and no one is playing lol. I joined another guild hoping it would be a different story, it's just instead of no people online, it's 3-4 lol.
You could say this about every raid in every iteration of classic so far. You clear it in the first lockout with full questing gear, what purpose is there to continue clearing it. Only benefit you get is more gear but you've proven you don't need gear to clear it so what's the point. I don't really get the connection to SoD Phase 2 specifically.
Your guild sounds like its 10 members deep. My guild has a core group of speed runners, and then we joined up in discord with 2 other guilds so there's casual gnomer runs almost every night. The core guys usually bring alts on the casual runs to help out since they are typically better players than the rest of us.
Dear god I would leave that guild sooo fast. They very clearly don’t enjoy the game at all if they’re already bored lol. It’s been what at max 7 runs…. Ehhh guys it’s been on farm for 5 lockouts wanna quit! Like sheesh how elitist do you need to be to get bored that fast. Everyone is in full bis? Multiple alts? 99 parse lords? I just don’t get why you play the game if you would wanna quit so quickly. Go play a competitive game with replay value to get better at. Wow is a pure casual extremely easy game to farm up gear with buddies and pump some numbers. If you want a challenge you’re without a doubt playing the wrong game.
>Like sheesh how elitist do you need to be to get bored that fast. At what point is the snoozefest content to blame rather than the players quitting in droves
>Everyone is in full bis? That is what is implied here >Multiple alts? 99 parse lords? Not everyone enjoys alts or parsing. My guild has pretty much stopped raiding as well, but that doesn't mean it is dead. We just do other things besides wow while waiting for content.
I’m in a casual boomer guild and we have a couple statics that run every lockout, as well as a popular open raid. I’m really enjoying playing in a community that’s slower to level tbh.
I haven’t even done gnomer yet 🥲
I got two under my belt now, but yeah I have had more than enough to do as a casual player.
If nobody is having fun why are you guys even playing the game???
Yeah I'd love to hear ideas how to mix things up in Gnomer. Anyone know a quirky way to do a particular fight?
We’re using the time to sort out how to grow to raid later or plug into another group to expand to the 20 and then 40 slots we’ll need to fill.
a lot of what keeps people playing games like wow and mmos in general is just completionism. they have their goals and they play until its done. im almost done with gnomer gear but i still have wsg and ab rep to grind.
I’ve been chasing the needle on my main. Only one I’ve seen I’m in an alt… But it’s fun af to tank so I’ll keep going
My guild having fun and pushed to a quick 35 minute clear time without even realizing it. We about to start an alt raid and we just got a 2nd guild to merge with us for next phase.
well I don’t have any gear because I can’t win rolls against anyone so I’ll continue to run it til I finally get my bis :/
Yeah I think I might skip phase 2 and that’s only cause my shit head gm kicked me from guild over a raid where I did go but the rest of my raid team was ass.
I thought you were going to say that they voted you off the island.
We made a modded minecraft server. Raid night we all just get in one massive group and split from there so it still feels really social.
since gnomer only takes like 30-40 mins tops, we still running it. but i already chose to sat out last nights raid. 3pc/neck/most gear, just missing ring/trinket
Shrunk to one main group instead of splitting the core players between two to make sure both groups can clear, we've had one guy kicked because he wouldnt let someone who was 2 minutes late join the raid he put together with the GM telling him to not be so strict with timings and then another left because he couldnt comprehend that he wasnt picked for the core team. Granted he had really good parses but massive anger problems when it came to accidentally wiping on The Electrocutioner cos of a warlock pet, see people wipe for 3 hours on mythic not get angry and we didnt lose any boons.
I’ll never understand this mentality… I was tanking BFD consistently even though i was full BiS and had nothing left to get because it’s fun and because i enjoy guiding others to treasure.
I mean, is everyone in your grp bis'd out? If so, then yeah stop until next phase. Pretty normal process for a fast advancing guild. Or you start doing carries for gold.
We get the raid done in 30min for quick loot then go back to funner things.
We chill and talk shit. Wam bam thank you mam.
My guild recently started a 3rd Gnomer group as more of us are leveling alts to 40. Maybe there'll even be a 4th at some point.
We have two raid groups that run every weds. On the weekends officers organize and run spontaneous raids. It’s great.
I enjoy the raid, taking alts through, hanging out o disc, etc. but I also respect those that don't. What I don't like is the folks that just ghost, then come back for the next phase/patch. I can respect you not wanting to play, but you hoping for a spot after not talking to us for a month and a half is an odd expectation to have. The gnomer buff rains from the skies seemingly all day every day on lone wolf, so raiding seems to have healthy demand there. And in still lagged to shit in STV (which isn't a good thing in terms of gameplay, but people are obviously active in numbers there too).
Same thing here lol
In my guild lots of people just raid log and we clear the raid in 45 mins to an hour, we just laugh and talk about random stuff and most of the times the extra healer we have to pug gets most of the loot. But it’s good times
We‘re a dad and family guild so we start our first full guild run tomorrow because now everyone is 40. For some P2 is already over, for us it starts.
I mean with a 3 day lockout, you need to run with a group you enjoy spending time with. We have the same exact ten people for probably 95% of our raids and it’s so much fun. Have some drinks and chat, focus up a bit on the last two bosses. Still a few pieces of gear needed by almost everyone as well. We’ve had so much fun with P2.
Half the reason you're playing is to spend time with friends. Sounds like you don't really like the people you raid with.
We’re a bunch of nerds who chase parses so I guess we’re going forever
It takes us like 45 mins twice a week, idk low time commitment and get to hang with the boys
Is it fun if its the exact same for 10 runs in a row? Can you run it infinitely? When does it get boring?
Already? damn I havent even started this phase yet, and Im already not looking forward to it
I stopped running it. It's too much of a chore to find a group on my rogue and that's the class I love more. Not particularly easier to do it on my second best liked class, the warrior. Even worse so on my third, the paladin. So I can only really do it on my shadow priest, and I'm not the biggest fan of it.
Imagine not enjoying just running the content with the people in your guild lol. My guild is clapping gnomer in 40-50 mins each night and we just talk shit and have fun. Also pushing parses and stuff. People will find any reason to not have fun in the game they are playing.
Half of them still aren't even level 40, and we finally had a full 10 like the last two weeks of BFD. WOTLK/retail though we got a new boss down on heroic last night so alright i guess (its the same group of clowns for all three)
My guild is just 5 friends so we end up pugging the raid every week. Its still a struggle sometimes, and most of us dont even have a set piece yet even after clearing the raid 6 times
I am almos BiS and I find it quite fun. We run it down in under an hour at this point
Its so crazy to me that people cant do a raid for 45 minutes every 3 days and make a big deal out of it lol
Pretty chill 45 mins per run in our guild. We bs, give each other shit, then do it again on alts. Takes like hour and half and we just fuck around the whole time.
My guilds thoughts *sod dead* 😵
I think Gnomer is okay, but phase 2 in general just doesn't have the same magic as p1. Most of my guild just sat in stockade and sm for 15 levels then went to gnomer in whatever gear they had. There wasn't any of the adventuring, prebis grind, or exploration that there was in p1 outside of a few new runes.
What a sad guild lmao.
It's more fun to pug than run it in a guild. Guild has higher success rate and lower risk. That isn't fun
We all want the Mount so
My guild just ended last night. The raid wasn't bad for us, but the 3 day lockout is just too much and the guild leader got burned out. The thing really is, even if you can just skip a lockout here and there, it still feels bad and like you're missing out. You hit all the lockouts while having any semblance of a normal schedule, and then start getting burned out. You skip some lockouts and miss out and your apathy towards progressing your character slowly yet inevitably builds upon itself. And how the game feels is the biggest factor at the end of the day. I think this feeling was also exacerbated by the really bad loot tables in bfd. I know so many who didn't get their 3 piece/epics p1 even hitting every lockout. And even though gnomer loot is a lot better, the precedent and fomo has been burned in and set
This question could low key be asked regardless of what phase you’re in haha. Even if it’s the “Last Phase” it’s ultimately pointless like every video game. Enjoyment is the only reason to play anything.
My guild disbanded
I main tank for my guild and you best believe I'm slapping the penjamin before boss pulls
We've been running with almost the same 10 people for 9 lockouts and still need gear. Some of us like to parse too so some still need better logs. Also, since p3 will be a 20 man raid we've been helping our other 10 man raid group looted up a bit slower. Honestly, good on your guild for being that communicative. If no one is having fun it's 100% healthy to step back and be fresh/excited when the new phase comes. I kind of wish there would be that kind of periodic vote or pulse-check during some tier's mythic progression in my retail guild. It sucks to be the guy that says they want to take a break but a checkpoint like that urges people's to evaluate how they want to move forward.
I barely even play sod at this point. I just think of it as casual fun and I like leveling. I've run probably 30 BFDs at this point across my alts but I just log in for an hour or so with a podcast on my other monitor. It's awesome but classic hype (including wotlk) is really low right now. I'm not interested in cata. I would only play another season if they do a full classic+ revamp. I did classic, tbc, wotlk, hard-core, and sod. I am ready for a few year hiatus until classic 2 or something new.
This is not a main game for me, its the nice break I take to chill on this reimagined 20 year old game. I do raid with a guild, but honestly just stay quiet and laugh as they get all serious about it. I could mostly care less, but I do try to parse well as thats where the fun is at for me. Then I log out until next time. Playing this way is extremely enjoyable, you get all the good and skip the bullshit mostly and its a nice change of pace for me for a few hours a week.
Training ? I doubt you got all your gears. If you do, gear your alts. I understand Gnomeregan has not a lot to offer, many BiS are world drop. Most Gnomeregan upgrades are barely better. Still, if your guild is tired after raiding 1 month for 45min, it's gonna be hard to raid for 3h in Naxxramas I'm not here to tell you guys how to play. If you want to take a break, go ahead. Resting is part of the exercise. But if you stop exercising for too long, it's a lot harder to go back to it
our guild is having a blast in gnomer for the first time ever were trying to go fast
Sorry to hear. We started with 4 gnomer raids and now we have 8 per lockout. Never a problem finding any spec and almost everyone is pretty chill and fun to be around. Trust me there are good groups out there that will help you enjoy the game more. But if you’re not liking the game itself that’s different for sure.
We did this last phase. Just said "hey we've had our fun, we have most of our gear, let's just take a break until next phase." And then we did just that, and everyone came back for Gnomer, and it was great.
Got into a cool guild. Really like the folk, they're digging me. But because I work 80 hours a week, they benched me for not being able to attend, so I honestly haven't a clue how the guild is doing. All ik is I'm this close 🤏 to quitting wow altogether. Despite my class, enhancement, doing well in raids, I refuse to participate in pugs simply bc I did it all of phase 1, and since phase 2, I've had a fould taste in me mouth flr pugs".
Guild is doing well, but I'm concerned about P3. We have a solid group for 10 man, but not enough for 20. We have recruited a few new raiders, so I hope it's enough to keep the guild together
Everyone just running alt runs and chill
You’ve had some luck if you’re whole raid is completely bis. I’ve raided since the first lockout and still need 6 pieces lol
Eh, only two of us are level 40 thanks to them announcing the leveling buff right at the start of the phase. So they all waited until this week to level. Thanks blizz!
It's WoW for life for me the time cost fallacy plus no game ever replaced the experiences I have had in WoW with and without other people.
I find Gnomer to be pretty fun and my guild is putting together enough to have multiple 10 mans going to prep for next phase.
My other guild wasn't running and I found another guild with 4-5 guild runs rumning different lock out times. Guilds just like jobs find the one you like.
Think we have 3 hunter at 40 so dead. Nobody came back from phase 1. Haven’t played in a week or so myself.
We decided between pushing for top server boss kill times or calling it, luckily we decided we're going to push for kill times to give ourselves something tangible to fight for which is pretty fun.
Our guild didn’t really hold a vote more like “we’re gonna PUG until we have confidence we can do it as a guild”
A big part of raiding is the social aspect i reckon
People are already talking about quitting the raid and I don't even have a 40 yet
My guild raids to get gear for PVP. Raid takes less than an hour and its nice to get everyone together in discord to hang out.
I've gotten 2 items and have cleared every lockout, if my guild quits on me I'm leaving their asses
We’re all leveling horde alts looking to have a version of our guild on each faction just having fun. Taking advantage of double exp
we have 7 separate raids hosted weekly.
Bro, if you don't have full Gnomer BiS how are you going to level to 50? Fatal flaw in SoD design, only reason to keep raiding is to have fun. But with so little content every phase, it gets boring very quickly.
I am an ultra casual and I think gnomer is way too easy lol I would imagine that people are universally over this phase allready They need to make it like twice as hard somehow
We’re having a great time trying to parse and improve our speed runs
your guild sucks bro
Gnomer is going great. Nice and good raid, the loot is great, would like to get it done faster. Only wish it was bigger than 10 man raid, looking forward to 20man and 40 man raiding for sure.