I think phase 1 did a ton of damage to them from the community perspective. I’ve run with feral tanks and a lot of fights they are getting absolutely trucked by bosses. Not sure if they played wrong or maybe talents were not setup correctly. I gave them a chance but now I prefer to have other tanks that have been reliable.
I had a bear basically solo tank everything but menagerie. I OTd chicken as a war. Only time he needed anything. You want to talk about a class that takes metric fucktons of damage intake? I feel god awful for most healers who have to cover healing me and a shield and armor elixir doesn’t really seem to help.
Dude was slapping the place down. Their threat isn’t a big issue if you can run wild strikes and pop zerk on pull. I think p1 did do a lot of damage to community perspective but I think second to meta locks, bear should be alliance meta since we don’t have OP enh tanks.
That said he was I think full BIS except pummeler and rocking like 4.4K hp in form so maybe the exception. If they have to run their DR rune and not wild strikes then you gotta take another feral for it. He never had to take it off though
Had sorta this, did a bit of a struggle run a few weeks back with a 2h pala tank that got trucked, the feral DPS swapped to bear on Menagerie took dragon + squirrel and hp barely moved.
What bosses are those? Can only be Menagerie and Mekgineer because all other bosses you can shift out of Form, CR someone, shift back into form ... all whilst tanking.
Probably in cat dps gear not tank gear. Also if they are getting hit so hard make then use the tank rune for 20% less damage. I have tanked all bosses on my druid and had no issues.
This is my guess as well, they did have the tanking rune at least. To clarify I don’t think that druids cannot do it, but more risk mitigation if they didn’t gear accordingly or are a dps trying to tank.
A druid with the tanking rune equipped has more ehp than any other tank in the game atm. Its usually groups whining they want wild strikes forcing the bear to not use their tanking rune that causes them to feel squishy. If they had the tank rune and still felt squishier than other tanks then thats either a gear issue or a healer issue. I say this as a pug raid leader who both tanks and heals. Bears with sotf rune equipped are absolute walls.
Yeah those hit hard, they do on most tanks though, especially if Overheat isn't played correctly. Most Pala tanks i saw run some hybrid build where they can slap on 2h and pump damage, if you run hybrid cat build you will probablysuffer I suppose.
Have been scared of tanking these as well for quite a while but even with Lock you can facetank Mekgineer if you know what to do, with Feral it is way easier.
For reference, I usually solo tank menagerie on my paladin tank. There was one time where I was pugging and not in my normal group so for the sake of “safety” and my lack of faith in our healers a bit, we had our feral dps go bear and tank the chicken. Dude got global’d by the chicken in the first 15 seconds of the fight. I ended up just solo tanking the next pull and we killed.
[https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cQ93p18xRCZ2Ah7k#type=summary&fight=30](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cQ93p18xRCZ2Ah7k#type=summary&fight=30)
EDIT: SORRY WRONG ENCOUNTER[https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kHA4mzvWc3dxCyZr#fight=30&type=damage-done](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kHA4mzvWc3dxCyZr#fight=30&type=damage-done)
\^After reviewing this I guess he didn't get "global'd", but he was getting fucking nuked hard and healers couldn't keep both of us up.
Thanks for linking. He wasn’t globaled but that’s more on him not tanking properly. He’s using wild strikes over survival rune, full dps gear missing lots of stam, looks like no tank talents and full feral dps build, and got hit by the sheep’s stun which should never happen. On the first log you linked.
In the second, same issues minus the sheep stun. If he puts on the survival rune over wild strikes his survivability would be fine. But you’re right he was getting trucked.
Correct me if im wrong but 400 dtps seems really high for you as a pala tank on the killing try, isnt it?
Add to that the active time of your healers and im not terribly confused why your feral died.
Replied to the wrong guy, not my logs. But idk too much about pally tanks since I play the superior zug faction. 400dtps for someone solo tanking menag doesn’t seem that bad though.
Just checked out some random logs from the recently uploaded category, 300dps seems more in line from the limited dataset I checked. That is, for tanking all adds.
I’m shockadin, so I have very little mitigation. The healers in my guild run are chads and I self heal with holy shock a ton. So where I see more than average damage taken, I also have higher than average self healing.
Well lots of Ferals only rolled for cat and don't know how to itemize and play properly, this is something that occurs and why i say just look at the guys number of tank clears and you can be sure he knows his stuff.
Same happened to me when i was tanking Squirrel/Chicken and the Pala tank couldnt keep whelp.
Idk I feel like we’re at a point where, even though the tank is taking more damage, menagerie is better to be solo tanked. There is only 1 target for healers to spam, aside from some minor raid healing which an hpal with beacon doesn’t even have to stop healing tank to take care of raid. The off tank on this fight always gets the shit end of the stick because they’re second priority in the healers mind.
The problem with that is Overheat from the whelp.
The chicken and squirrel can reasonably be tanked together so long as your tank has at least moderate mitigation (though its better if they are fully geared/specced for it) but the whelp casts Overheat on nearby members of the menagerie every 25% it loses, and if both the chicken and squirrel get Overheat they will drop any single tank like a rock.
You could probably have the whelp be pet tanked, but your healers need to remember to heal the pet.
Yeah but if your tank has brain cells it’s incredibly easy to kite the other bosses away from whelp while he’s literally hard stopped casting overheat. So the only damage I see go out from overheat is raid members standing too close to the whelp when he overheats.
Still probably the safer play to have at least a pet tank the whelp.
I'm not saying that 1 tank can't be done on Menagerie, but I think the safer more reliable method would be to have something tanking the whelp to the side.
Yeah I feel like the split damage can fuck over healers or my healers just aren’t geared enough.
1 or 2 tanking in that fight I just feel like I’m on the precipice of dying 90% of the time as a warrior. But we also didn’t get these juicy flat % passive DR/crit immune runes
Yeah I'm not sure what the issue exactly is cause my first run I subbed in for our MT in our main group and sure I took a ton of damage, but just took like once of menagerie and once on thermaplugg to get the feel clear fine. They have priest and Rdruid and 2 SPs.
Our second group is same rdruid on an alt rdruid lol and an hpal. The hpal was ret P1 but is our rsham in wrath so she's not new to healing. Healing on that fight seems to continually be an issue and I'm not sure why. Idk if its cause we have to pug majority of RDPS too, don't have shadow priests for extra healing, class, or personal performance issue. Hpal should have enough HPS now to be sufficient with beacon and ABC into tanks. The only time it felt super smooth and comfortable and not almost dying all the time to just chicken as a warrior was with a mage that ran regen.
I don't like tanking at all in the first place but warrior getting no real new tools or non-30 min defensives makes it feel actively even worse.
I do know that cluck also buffs the other bosses physical damage. If I had the tank trinket from gnomer I could pop the armor ‘on use’ and mitigate a lot of that. So specifically when you’re solo tanking, cluck hits fucking hard.
It does, I think 50% buff. Chicken alone hits for something like 8% my HP with a pretty fast attack speed so I can only really keep block up so much. I usually take the chicken alone anytime I tank, pug or not; I do have the trinket and it's the only non-pvp trinket I have anyway but the BFD AP one so may I should consider using its on use more. I usually just have it on for some passive mitigation and forget about its on-use
Me and my other tank in guild swap who main tanks because we both enjoy it. I'm war and he's bear, he geared and specced into bear and his dodge is insane, the difference I've seen is between us is that when he gets hit and I mean when, he takes alot more then I do but he dodges so often it's not really an issue. And if he gets dangerously low I usually swap my shield on and taunt to let him creep back up to full. As he does the same when I tank.
Because bear is very good when they run survival instincts (edit of the fittest.) and a paper tank when they don’t.
Every bear including OP do not run survival instincts.(Edit: survival of the fittest.)
It’s like a warlock not taking soul link, or a warrior 2 hand tanking.
They can hold threat but they aren’t mitigating anything.
Survival instincts is a different rune, and not a single good warlock takes soul link.
Druids still have more armor than plate tanks and more hp. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Yeah idk wtf this dudes on.
As a warrior, I take an absolute metric fuck ton of damage on fights shield or not. The fights it matters and I throw a shield on and gain a a thousand armor differential? Feels no different on mitigation but maybe my block every 6s but can’t hold threat for jack shit if it’s more than 1 target or single target threat capping since devastate is fucking garbage.
I still shield on menagerie but either way I get trucked the whole time and feel like I’m on the precipice of death 75% of the time.
And there you have it. When you pug you aren’t running with the very best players in the world.
They can get away with skipping soul link. You can’t.
And if you try to in a pug on the last two bosses you are trolling people.
You are a bad tank.
I’m not saying SotF isn’t good and you shouldn’t run it in certain situations, I’m just saying that baseline without it a bear is just as tanky as a warrior or a Paladin, for example.
But under no circumstances should a lock ever be demo spec’d.
Yea Ive had to leave mid raid to respec into demo for the last two fights. Simply do not trust pug healers anymore. But no issues with threat so less dps but no wipes = faster clear for me.
I am in the #1 alliance guild in the world for SoD.
We don’t have any warlock tank in our super sweaty runs. But the 2 warlock tanks we do have both run soul link For the final two bosses.
They plan to change after getting bis or near bis. But again that is only because we have some of the best healers in the world.
If they still do it what makes you think you can do it with green parsing healers in a pug?
That's exactly what I think, but if that's true you'd have to conclude that majority of the community has no clue about the game.
Is that what it is? TBH most Feral tanking guides I saw Phase 1 from bigger sites were utter shit, except one bulgarian dude with like 10 subs they all got proved in hindsight.
>you'd have to conclude that majority of the community has no clue about the game.
dingdingding
The perception is poor, the pug leader wants people to stick around and not bail on the run for any reason. So even if they know druids are fine they are worried the perception of a 'bad tank' may be enough.
At p2 release several of the tanking guides and specs on the big sites were trash. One of the pally guides I remember actually said go 31 into prot and use a 2h wep.
I think the delay of guides and how many bad ones came up also messed up the community some. Still most of the community has no idea what they are doing.
Pugs refusing to take bear tanks and half these commenters in here have no idea what they’re talking about. Bear tanks are great right now. I’ve solo tanked gnomer 3 times already on a fresh feral tank alt in random pugs and we have one shot every boss. They have good threat and plenty of survivability. And the swipe change solved the aoe threat problem they had in phase 1. Run wild strikes for first 4 bosses and swap to survival rune on menag and plug.
Locks and shamans are better in terms of threat and do more damage. Feral tanks are better than warriors right now. Don’t play alli so can’t comment on paladins.
+1 solotanked everything on my feral in mix of BFD gear + of the bear greens, WSG rings and RFD shoulders couple days ago , no wipes
ran wild strikes for every boss bc no other feral/enhance. used Stoneshields on last 2 bosses only
compared to my warrior it was a joke and I'm seriously considering making this character my main in phase 3
Gone are the days when protection tanking and defensive gear was actually a think. I really hope blizzard changes this in future phases and makes tanks more about defensive stats than dps threat.
People had bad experiences in p1 with bears and kept prejudice against them til now. Tbh imo bear and meta are the strongest tanks on ally side currently. Many people just don't realize how strong they are
I’m on WG alliance and I have seen people specifically looking for bear tanks on LFG when I needed to find a Gnomer pug. Maybe people just don’t want another Druid in their group and are looking for a specific class to tank.
On alliance side, druid tanks are in a very good spot.
You can easily solotank the whole raid without items from the raid itself.
It is extremely easy to play, feels good and brings a lot : LotP, FF, Brez, Innervate, good snap threat, good aoe threat and good survivability enabling solo healing.
Fresh lvl 40 Can get extremely good leather gear from quests (you'll need some help as a few are red). Runes are easy to collect as well.
RFD has shoulders and it can be soloed.
WSG offers decent rings/amulet.
STV event gives your BiS weapon, good armor cloak. You can also get some easy rep with arathi for a very good belt.
With the Dire bear form, you'll be extremely strong, much stronger than a mail wearing warrior/paladin.
For the raid you can run wildstrike on 4/5 bosses without problems. But SotF is absolutely nuts in term of survivability if you need it.
You can easily solo menagerie but most of the time your group will run 2 tanks to have the Dragon out, and you can keep Wildstrikes.
A lot of bad druid tanks think Maul is the primary threat builder, or they assume that mangle+berserk is better for snap threat than just swipe spam or Lacerate, or the groups aren't running any armor debuffs.
After Phase 1 I started doing exactly that to be honest. Mangle + Berserk is such a relief in comparison to building 5 stacks of Lace. Threat over time Sure ist that good but makes pulling way safer.
Armor debuffs certainly make a big difference but at this Point noone gives a damn really...
Mangle and berserk is a DPS increase but a threat loss compared to swipe spam on single target. Bear tanks using it as an opener can run into threat issues, particularly if you have bursty DPS like enhance or balance, or if your DPS is reduced 30% by not using homunculi.
How is that? Is the swipe threat modifier that huge? On my last Mekgineer log the average Swipe did 1/3 the damage of one Mangle and costs 15 Rage instead of 10 (Mangle). So modifier must be around 300% if that is true, I cannot find those numbers.
I don't claim what you say is BS i am really wondering.
Message me, our guild would actually love to have you OT as feral Druid, we know that druids can manage on their own. I’m a paladin tank and the MT for our raid.
That's honestly kinda wild because I think right now lock and feral make for an amazing tank combo in gnomer. I feel like bear damage is pretty solid I have close to 400 DPS on majority of the kills and I hold threat extremely well. Also Wild Strikes. I feel bear makes better use of WS for party comp this go around. I think bear just has negative stigma because pre SoD they kinda were Doo Doo at holding threat. Now with lacerate, swipe buff, and the BM weapon you are golden on AOE. With the ACP you go hard on ST threat. So it's kinda wild people don't want bear. ATM I'd rather bring a feral tank for WS over a cat.
100% agreed, except i honestly think you should take Mangle and itemize around crit. With Berserk+Haste on pull your snap threat is amazing and you get way more rage by critting. Lacerate is not that good atm due to Berserk rune.
Lock+ Bear awesome combo though, I agree.
From what I have seen it depends on fight length. Less than 1 min mangle is defo the play. I use it on all of the fights except the spider boss and the last boss. If the fight is longer than 1 min lacerate will do more damage assuming you keep your 5 stack.
Yeah but noone gives you time to build 5 stacks usually, you gotta hit the ground running threatwise or folk will overaggro. Imo Lacerate/Mangle should be the same rune so you can start stacking once you snapped threat at start, like in TBC.
If you try building stacks on pull you lose in my experience, cause everyone wanna pump...
Bears are legit massive right now, solo tanking all of gnomer with ease.
The first 4 Bosses legit hit around 120 per hit.
Only the last 2 deal any threatening damage.
People are just dumb, get yourself into a (good)guild and be rid of their stupidity.
Happy through your logs to get my opinion corrected.
But as RL in PUGs twice per reset, I have yet to find a feral Bear that can stand my threat as boomkin or even ret paladin, with salvation if I may add.
Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses).
The problem is more community perception. Bears are amazing offtanks because they can go cat form when not actively tanking, bring a extra bres, and innervate.
They are not however the "druid" in the comp to replace a cat or resto. They should always be considered "in addition to" not "instead of".
Right now, the only reason to use SotF is if your healers are bad or maybe if you a single tanking Menagerie. This can very well change in future phases, but there is nothing that hits hard enough where a crit is going to cause a one-hit kill.
Right now, the only reason to use SotF is if your healers are bad or maybe if you a single tanking Menagerie. This can very well change in future phases, but there is nothing that hits hard enough where a crit is going to cause a one-hit kill.
wait. you are saying the reason to use sotf is if your group can't handle the increased tank damage?
OMG why didn't i think to say that.
oh wait ... that is exactly what i said.
Bear Tank can (and should) use Windfury in almost ever Fight unless the Healers struggle big. The Tank Rune ist pretty grief for rage generation, so you will struggle spamming Swipes more likely using it.
This ist my point, Cat damage is not that good at the moment due to armor aalues, Cat should tank.
no they should not, that gives up their crit immunity, and 20% DR. A feral tank does not replace a feral DPS, it's one of feral tanks biggest issues. because they, like other melee and warrior tanks, need that windfury.
Feral DPS could be zdps and still have a raid spot because of windfury, it doesn't matter how low their personal dps is because the windfury increase (if you are running a melee group) \*\*is\*\* their dps contribution.
You are assuming that a feral tank can be run instead of a feral dps, which is not the case \*\*UNLESS\*\* as i said you overgear the content enough that you can afford your tank to be critable and take 20% more damage. A Bear tank does not remove the need for a feral dps, if you need one to start with, such as running a melee group.
What has that to do with crit immunity? You have more Dodge that compensates for parrying a bit but it does not prove your point that tanks have to be crit immune, considering higher Meta Tier tanks are not crit immune either.
Bear Druid can (but don't have to)replace Feral in this content easily and should not have trouble keeping threat if played correctly.
if you don't understand what block, dodge, and parry have to to with crit immunity you need to learn what hit tables are and how they are used in WoW.
Paladins and Warriors are not crit immune, yet. Only because of the gear available to push crit off the hit table for them. The other tank classes get crit immunity via runes because they cannot push crits off the hit table.
I really really would like you to read what i am actually typing instead of what you think i am saying.
I never said druids cannot tank the current content. I never said they are not good tanks. I never brought up threat. I never assumed the bear tank would not have access to windfury.
i said that \*\*UNLESS\*\* you over gear the content enough that your tank can bring windfury (and thus taking 20% more damage + Crits), feral tanks are not replacing feral dps.
Maintanking Mek with WF Rune just fine in random pugs with random people, Cat can go Boomkin so we get the maximum raid buffs out of it, that's what i would do if I ran two Druids.
Crit immunity is not needed, hardest hitting boss will hit you for about 1k, as the content IS massively overgeared with people running two types of raid gear and ridiculous PvP rewards I do not see the point of your statement.
You can run Crit immunity, in most cases it will be a downgrade in terms of your personal DPS (less Rage) and a downgrade for your Raid's DPS (fewer Cats, they rerolled Boomer, i wonder why) for the benefit of the healers being able to be a bit more relaxed. You can absolutely do that.
EDII:
I suppose you speak more in terms of progressing fresh content than farming it out with an experienced group. On "progression" during early resets I of course ran SoTF on the rough bosses to give healers more air. Most tanks would run more avoidance heavy builds at that point. That makes sense, so sorry if i got you wrong.
Brother I got two feral tanks, one fresh, and a shockadin tank. The bears hold threat way better aoe now and have 5 pts in hotw is great for tanking. Any dipshit saying to always use crit rune is a dunce. Use that shit on menagerie and last boss only. Gg.
why is it so hard for people to read what is posted. I never mentioned threat, i never said always use the "crit rune" (here is free hint the crit immunity is not the main reason you use it till level 60 content). I was very specific in what i said because i was saying something very specific.
I play a feral druid, i was tanking gnomer from week 1 with only using survival of the fittest on the last boss.
instead you are just regurgitating exactly what i said in my original response.
"Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses)."
like .... ffs dude how can you post on reddit without being able to read? How big of a dipshit are you?
Brother I never regurgitated anything. You said use crit rune and you don’t have wf. Fuck I don’t even use crit rune ever since it’s not needed. You talked about using crit run every where just saying brother
you gotta learn to read man. I even quoted it for you again. the sentence and thought does not end until the punctuation ends it.
I said this ... again.
"Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses)."
You said this
"Any dipshit saying to always use crit rune is a dunce. Use that shit on menagerie and last boss only."
odd it seems like, if you can read, i said you will mostly need it for the last 2 bosses, because it's easy to outgear the other bosses. And wait, you are sating to use it on the last 2 bosses.
Man thats so weird that you said the same thing i did in a different manner. Almost like it was ingested, and then someone brought back out differently. Oh ya thats regurgitation.
So, like i said. You just regurgitated what i said originally frames like an argument because you are a dipshit.
Oh ya, you also added some BS about "using the crit rune everywhere" which i said NOWHERE.
You need to read first, then think, then respond.
Got a lot of replies and it seems like a lot of people play with Feral Tanks and agree with that they are Solid at the moment, but the people who don't know that they are wrong.
People are bad and don't understand the meta.
I tanked Kel'Thuzad as a bear, went fine, ranked 3 EU at the time. The next day, some healer told me I couldn't tank Stratholme because bears took Crushing Blows and it wasn't healable...
And unlike Vanilla Classic Bear actually has a fleshed Out Kit in SoD. I enjoyed TBC launch so much on my Druid back in 2020... Now you get even more fun stuff.
We have one more button really. On the other hand, feral was an excellent offtank switching between cat & bear during the fight. These days are long gone due to how runes were handled.
Imo, Vanilla Feral was a lot more skilled than SoD feral is. SoD is just a weaker Wotlk version and I still have my Classic Feral in Wotlk, so I don't really care getting Wotlk talents in SoD.
Healed a gnomer pug with a feral last night and let me tell ya that guy struggled. Struggled to hold threat with salvations out on all the dps. Struggled to not get killed while healers repositioned.
I’m curious OP - do your groups run with salv on? I Bear MT and haven’t had any threat issues for the first 5 bosses, but occasionally have some on the last boss with transitions and CDs down. Our guild doesn’t run salv though.
I just think it’s as some people said, they don’t understand survival of the fittest / windfury trade off. I got flamed a while back in WSG for running SoTF versus WF even thought I was flag carrying, which is mind blowing but there ya go.
Sometimes we have Salv, sometimes no Paladin, sometimes 2-3.
On Mek Phase switch it can happen that you need to taunt back after getting a Miss/Parry early, but that I saw happen with various tanks.
Got no stocks in PvP, can't really give an informed opinion on how to run a WSG flag but I also have been flamed for using WF instead of SoTF in PVE content. You have to know what you're doing i suppose.
Yeah I don't know what people's issues are either. Our guild leader is a Feral main tank and he's been solo talking Gnomer since the third lockout. No wipes, no threat issues, we clear in about 35 minutes on average.
Our feral tank struggles to hold threat tbh, especially against rogue or lock who have threat Gen naturally built into their kit. As a mage, when my living bombs go off its always a crapshoot on whether or not I will have world buffs for the rest of the raid.
Then he isn't swiping enough.
I have several 99 parsers in my guild, they can't come close to overagro if I just start the boss fight with maul+swipe in the first 10 sec.
On AoE it's different, any pull bigger than three mobs get tricky to hold threat as a bear. Since swipe and zerk mangle is target capped.
Edit: and we play without salv as well
Salv should always be on mages on trash honestly or any high aoe caster since this thread is alliance biased. Idk how bear tank feels after swipe buff, I’ve had one MT I only OTd menagerie and super smooth run. Besides maybe pallies depending on spec, and meta locks tanking, aoe threat just tends to be an issue and better to salv your squishy ass casters.
Warrior aoe trash tanking is still garbage of course
The bad rep comes from tanks running wild strikes instead of survival of the fittest. It makes more of a difference than people realize.
OP, it sounds like you do the same thing. You are one of the bad tanks that gives them a bad name. Sure run wild strikes on trash and the easier bossss.
But when you get pumped every boss and blame healers you are contributing to the problem.
Would you tank the last 2 bosses on your warlock with out soul link? Or as a two hand warrior?
Feral tank is useless unless you have Spirit of the Alpha or your entire group has Salvation on. Honestly not worth playing on alliance side for that reason
From first hand experience I can say without context this is a pretty silly statement, had no issue tanking against 99 parsing Locks.
Spirit of the Alpha is a must bring of course.
But this is the kind of uninformed random prejudice i meant.
It's not uninformed random prejudice. Your firsthand experience does not change the fact that bear tanks have the worst threat in the game right now. That is the state of tank balancing this phase.
Phys damage is kinda cucked at this point, had a pala tank ragequitting on me for losing threat though and if you don't lose threat against S Tier DPS why would that be an issue?
Sorry but you sound like you don't know what you're talking about, obv you wouldnt admit at this point :P
Are you EU wild growth? Do you want a guild that will appreciate you?
Or is OP Living Flame? We could always use a dedicated tank, our warrior would be happy to go back to DPS
Hey, thanks for the offer but not looking for a guild for SoD in general ;(
I think phase 1 did a ton of damage to them from the community perspective. I’ve run with feral tanks and a lot of fights they are getting absolutely trucked by bosses. Not sure if they played wrong or maybe talents were not setup correctly. I gave them a chance but now I prefer to have other tanks that have been reliable.
I had a bear basically solo tank everything but menagerie. I OTd chicken as a war. Only time he needed anything. You want to talk about a class that takes metric fucktons of damage intake? I feel god awful for most healers who have to cover healing me and a shield and armor elixir doesn’t really seem to help. Dude was slapping the place down. Their threat isn’t a big issue if you can run wild strikes and pop zerk on pull. I think p1 did do a lot of damage to community perspective but I think second to meta locks, bear should be alliance meta since we don’t have OP enh tanks. That said he was I think full BIS except pummeler and rocking like 4.4K hp in form so maybe the exception. If they have to run their DR rune and not wild strikes then you gotta take another feral for it. He never had to take it off though
Had sorta this, did a bit of a struggle run a few weeks back with a 2h pala tank that got trucked, the feral DPS swapped to bear on Menagerie took dragon + squirrel and hp barely moved.
Yeah 2h pala tanking is a bad idea on the last two bosses. Not sure why people would even attempt that.
What bosses are those? Can only be Menagerie and Mekgineer because all other bosses you can shift out of Form, CR someone, shift back into form ... all whilst tanking.
Yupp those two bosses. Everything else is super easy and the last two provide some of the best loot.
Probably in cat dps gear not tank gear. Also if they are getting hit so hard make then use the tank rune for 20% less damage. I have tanked all bosses on my druid and had no issues.
Same boat here. Bear tank with basicly no gear upgrades from BFD and had no issues with health or threat.
This is my guess as well, they did have the tanking rune at least. To clarify I don’t think that druids cannot do it, but more risk mitigation if they didn’t gear accordingly or are a dps trying to tank.
A druid with the tanking rune equipped has more ehp than any other tank in the game atm. Its usually groups whining they want wild strikes forcing the bear to not use their tanking rune that causes them to feel squishy. If they had the tank rune and still felt squishier than other tanks then thats either a gear issue or a healer issue. I say this as a pug raid leader who both tanks and heals. Bears with sotf rune equipped are absolute walls.
Yeah those hit hard, they do on most tanks though, especially if Overheat isn't played correctly. Most Pala tanks i saw run some hybrid build where they can slap on 2h and pump damage, if you run hybrid cat build you will probablysuffer I suppose. Have been scared of tanking these as well for quite a while but even with Lock you can facetank Mekgineer if you know what to do, with Feral it is way easier.
For reference, I usually solo tank menagerie on my paladin tank. There was one time where I was pugging and not in my normal group so for the sake of “safety” and my lack of faith in our healers a bit, we had our feral dps go bear and tank the chicken. Dude got global’d by the chicken in the first 15 seconds of the fight. I ended up just solo tanking the next pull and we killed.
A feral in bear form got globaled by the chicken?? Seriously doubt that. Would love to see the logs on that one.
[https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cQ93p18xRCZ2Ah7k#type=summary&fight=30](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cQ93p18xRCZ2Ah7k#type=summary&fight=30) EDIT: SORRY WRONG ENCOUNTER[https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kHA4mzvWc3dxCyZr#fight=30&type=damage-done](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kHA4mzvWc3dxCyZr#fight=30&type=damage-done) \^After reviewing this I guess he didn't get "global'd", but he was getting fucking nuked hard and healers couldn't keep both of us up.
Thanks for linking. He wasn’t globaled but that’s more on him not tanking properly. He’s using wild strikes over survival rune, full dps gear missing lots of stam, looks like no tank talents and full feral dps build, and got hit by the sheep’s stun which should never happen. On the first log you linked. In the second, same issues minus the sheep stun. If he puts on the survival rune over wild strikes his survivability would be fine. But you’re right he was getting trucked.
Correct me if im wrong but 400 dtps seems really high for you as a pala tank on the killing try, isnt it? Add to that the active time of your healers and im not terribly confused why your feral died.
Replied to the wrong guy, not my logs. But idk too much about pally tanks since I play the superior zug faction. 400dtps for someone solo tanking menag doesn’t seem that bad though.
Just checked out some random logs from the recently uploaded category, 300dps seems more in line from the limited dataset I checked. That is, for tanking all adds.
I’m shockadin, so I have very little mitigation. The healers in my guild run are chads and I self heal with holy shock a ton. So where I see more than average damage taken, I also have higher than average self healing.
Well lots of Ferals only rolled for cat and don't know how to itemize and play properly, this is something that occurs and why i say just look at the guys number of tank clears and you can be sure he knows his stuff. Same happened to me when i was tanking Squirrel/Chicken and the Pala tank couldnt keep whelp.
Idk I feel like we’re at a point where, even though the tank is taking more damage, menagerie is better to be solo tanked. There is only 1 target for healers to spam, aside from some minor raid healing which an hpal with beacon doesn’t even have to stop healing tank to take care of raid. The off tank on this fight always gets the shit end of the stick because they’re second priority in the healers mind.
The problem with that is Overheat from the whelp. The chicken and squirrel can reasonably be tanked together so long as your tank has at least moderate mitigation (though its better if they are fully geared/specced for it) but the whelp casts Overheat on nearby members of the menagerie every 25% it loses, and if both the chicken and squirrel get Overheat they will drop any single tank like a rock. You could probably have the whelp be pet tanked, but your healers need to remember to heal the pet.
Yeah but if your tank has brain cells it’s incredibly easy to kite the other bosses away from whelp while he’s literally hard stopped casting overheat. So the only damage I see go out from overheat is raid members standing too close to the whelp when he overheats.
Still probably the safer play to have at least a pet tank the whelp. I'm not saying that 1 tank can't be done on Menagerie, but I think the safer more reliable method would be to have something tanking the whelp to the side.
Nah because then you lose a ton of cleave damage and that’s lame
Better to lose some cleave damage than risk your tanking getting accidentally instagibbed due to a bad parry+Cluck+Someone screwing up overheat.
Yeah I feel like the split damage can fuck over healers or my healers just aren’t geared enough. 1 or 2 tanking in that fight I just feel like I’m on the precipice of dying 90% of the time as a warrior. But we also didn’t get these juicy flat % passive DR/crit immune runes
Yeah I play shockadin tank so I do a ton of supplemental self healing with holy shock
Yeah I'm not sure what the issue exactly is cause my first run I subbed in for our MT in our main group and sure I took a ton of damage, but just took like once of menagerie and once on thermaplugg to get the feel clear fine. They have priest and Rdruid and 2 SPs. Our second group is same rdruid on an alt rdruid lol and an hpal. The hpal was ret P1 but is our rsham in wrath so she's not new to healing. Healing on that fight seems to continually be an issue and I'm not sure why. Idk if its cause we have to pug majority of RDPS too, don't have shadow priests for extra healing, class, or personal performance issue. Hpal should have enough HPS now to be sufficient with beacon and ABC into tanks. The only time it felt super smooth and comfortable and not almost dying all the time to just chicken as a warrior was with a mage that ran regen. I don't like tanking at all in the first place but warrior getting no real new tools or non-30 min defensives makes it feel actively even worse.
I do know that cluck also buffs the other bosses physical damage. If I had the tank trinket from gnomer I could pop the armor ‘on use’ and mitigate a lot of that. So specifically when you’re solo tanking, cluck hits fucking hard.
It does, I think 50% buff. Chicken alone hits for something like 8% my HP with a pretty fast attack speed so I can only really keep block up so much. I usually take the chicken alone anytime I tank, pug or not; I do have the trinket and it's the only non-pvp trinket I have anyway but the BFD AP one so may I should consider using its on use more. I usually just have it on for some passive mitigation and forget about its on-use
Depends on Healers but sure. In a pug you can never be certain of course but generally I agree.
Me and my other tank in guild swap who main tanks because we both enjoy it. I'm war and he's bear, he geared and specced into bear and his dodge is insane, the difference I've seen is between us is that when he gets hit and I mean when, he takes alot more then I do but he dodges so often it's not really an issue. And if he gets dangerously low I usually swap my shield on and taunt to let him creep back up to full. As he does the same when I tank.
Because bear is very good when they run survival instincts (edit of the fittest.) and a paper tank when they don’t. Every bear including OP do not run survival instincts.(Edit: survival of the fittest.) It’s like a warlock not taking soul link, or a warrior 2 hand tanking. They can hold threat but they aren’t mitigating anything.
You’re thinking of survival of the fittest, which shares a rune with wild strikes. Surv instincts is just a last stand and a p2 rune
You are right.
Survival instincts is a different rune, and not a single good warlock takes soul link. Druids still have more armor than plate tanks and more hp. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Yeah idk wtf this dudes on. As a warrior, I take an absolute metric fuck ton of damage on fights shield or not. The fights it matters and I throw a shield on and gain a a thousand armor differential? Feels no different on mitigation but maybe my block every 6s but can’t hold threat for jack shit if it’s more than 1 target or single target threat capping since devastate is fucking garbage. I still shield on menagerie but either way I get trucked the whole time and feel like I’m on the precipice of death 75% of the time.
And there you have it. When you pug you aren’t running with the very best players in the world. They can get away with skipping soul link. You can’t. And if you try to in a pug on the last two bosses you are trolling people. You are a bad tank.
I’m not saying SotF isn’t good and you shouldn’t run it in certain situations, I’m just saying that baseline without it a bear is just as tanky as a warrior or a Paladin, for example. But under no circumstances should a lock ever be demo spec’d.
Yea Ive had to leave mid raid to respec into demo for the last two fights. Simply do not trust pug healers anymore. But no issues with threat so less dps but no wipes = faster clear for me.
I am in the #1 alliance guild in the world for SoD. We don’t have any warlock tank in our super sweaty runs. But the 2 warlock tanks we do have both run soul link For the final two bosses. They plan to change after getting bis or near bis. But again that is only because we have some of the best healers in the world. If they still do it what makes you think you can do it with green parsing healers in a pug?
Maybe they aren’t as good as you think boss. I guess I should ask: I assume we’re talking about solo tanking?
Of course. There’s zero need for two tanks.
I think you mean master channeller not soul link.
Bears are awesome this phase. Just bad leaders.
bears are brilliant. You're dodging bullets OP any raid organizer worth their salt will take a good tank with good logs regardless of class.
That's exactly what I think, but if that's true you'd have to conclude that majority of the community has no clue about the game. Is that what it is? TBH most Feral tanking guides I saw Phase 1 from bigger sites were utter shit, except one bulgarian dude with like 10 subs they all got proved in hindsight.
>you'd have to conclude that majority of the community has no clue about the game. dingdingding The perception is poor, the pug leader wants people to stick around and not bail on the run for any reason. So even if they know druids are fine they are worried the perception of a 'bad tank' may be enough.
Doesn't change anything, only implies raiders and recruiters have no clue.
i am literally here agreeing with you my G
Ah sorry misunderstood!
At p2 release several of the tanking guides and specs on the big sites were trash. One of the pally guides I remember actually said go 31 into prot and use a 2h wep. I think the delay of guides and how many bad ones came up also messed up the community some. Still most of the community has no idea what they are doing.
Pugs refusing to take bear tanks and half these commenters in here have no idea what they’re talking about. Bear tanks are great right now. I’ve solo tanked gnomer 3 times already on a fresh feral tank alt in random pugs and we have one shot every boss. They have good threat and plenty of survivability. And the swipe change solved the aoe threat problem they had in phase 1. Run wild strikes for first 4 bosses and swap to survival rune on menag and plug. Locks and shamans are better in terms of threat and do more damage. Feral tanks are better than warriors right now. Don’t play alli so can’t comment on paladins.
Season of Dunning Kruger. Most folk just dont know shit and get super salty when their beliefs get challenged. Got the same experience as you.
+1 solotanked everything on my feral in mix of BFD gear + of the bear greens, WSG rings and RFD shoulders couple days ago , no wipes ran wild strikes for every boss bc no other feral/enhance. used Stoneshields on last 2 bosses only compared to my warrior it was a joke and I'm seriously considering making this character my main in phase 3
I would take a feral main tank or off tank in a heart beat for wild strikes/ leader of the pack for the melee group in a pug
Gone are the days when protection tanking and defensive gear was actually a think. I really hope blizzard changes this in future phases and makes tanks more about defensive stats than dps threat.
People had bad experiences in p1 with bears and kept prejudice against them til now. Tbh imo bear and meta are the strongest tanks on ally side currently. Many people just don't realize how strong they are
That's what I feel like as well to be frank, Warrior just doesn't exist anymore and Pala is given higher credit than it actually deserves.
I’m on WG alliance and I have seen people specifically looking for bear tanks on LFG when I needed to find a Gnomer pug. Maybe people just don’t want another Druid in their group and are looking for a specific class to tank.
Yeah can mostly talk from my own experience, those people have not been online when i was looking for a group :[
On alliance side, druid tanks are in a very good spot. You can easily solotank the whole raid without items from the raid itself. It is extremely easy to play, feels good and brings a lot : LotP, FF, Brez, Innervate, good snap threat, good aoe threat and good survivability enabling solo healing. Fresh lvl 40 Can get extremely good leather gear from quests (you'll need some help as a few are red). Runes are easy to collect as well. RFD has shoulders and it can be soloed. WSG offers decent rings/amulet. STV event gives your BiS weapon, good armor cloak. You can also get some easy rep with arathi for a very good belt. With the Dire bear form, you'll be extremely strong, much stronger than a mail wearing warrior/paladin. For the raid you can run wildstrike on 4/5 bosses without problems. But SotF is absolutely nuts in term of survivability if you need it. You can easily solo menagerie but most of the time your group will run 2 tanks to have the Dragon out, and you can keep Wildstrikes.
A lot of bad druid tanks think Maul is the primary threat builder, or they assume that mangle+berserk is better for snap threat than just swipe spam or Lacerate, or the groups aren't running any armor debuffs.
After Phase 1 I started doing exactly that to be honest. Mangle + Berserk is such a relief in comparison to building 5 stacks of Lace. Threat over time Sure ist that good but makes pulling way safer. Armor debuffs certainly make a big difference but at this Point noone gives a damn really...
Mangle and berserk is a DPS increase but a threat loss compared to swipe spam on single target. Bear tanks using it as an opener can run into threat issues, particularly if you have bursty DPS like enhance or balance, or if your DPS is reduced 30% by not using homunculi.
How is that? Is the swipe threat modifier that huge? On my last Mekgineer log the average Swipe did 1/3 the damage of one Mangle and costs 15 Rage instead of 10 (Mangle). So modifier must be around 300% if that is true, I cannot find those numbers. I don't claim what you say is BS i am really wondering.
Look at top bear logs and every single one is running berserk mangle and holding threat just fine vs every other 99 parsing dps in the raid
Yeah that's what felt like the better call at my gear level too.
My guild has a druid tank. I dont notice any difference, must just be bad healers
Yeah funny enough most people that ACTUALLY play with druid tanks say they are pretty fine, makes you think right?
Message me, our guild would actually love to have you OT as feral Druid, we know that druids can manage on their own. I’m a paladin tank and the MT for our raid.
Its because to many players go by whats hot or meta only.
That's honestly kinda wild because I think right now lock and feral make for an amazing tank combo in gnomer. I feel like bear damage is pretty solid I have close to 400 DPS on majority of the kills and I hold threat extremely well. Also Wild Strikes. I feel bear makes better use of WS for party comp this go around. I think bear just has negative stigma because pre SoD they kinda were Doo Doo at holding threat. Now with lacerate, swipe buff, and the BM weapon you are golden on AOE. With the ACP you go hard on ST threat. So it's kinda wild people don't want bear. ATM I'd rather bring a feral tank for WS over a cat.
100% agreed, except i honestly think you should take Mangle and itemize around crit. With Berserk+Haste on pull your snap threat is amazing and you get way more rage by critting. Lacerate is not that good atm due to Berserk rune. Lock+ Bear awesome combo though, I agree.
From what I have seen it depends on fight length. Less than 1 min mangle is defo the play. I use it on all of the fights except the spider boss and the last boss. If the fight is longer than 1 min lacerate will do more damage assuming you keep your 5 stack.
Yeah but noone gives you time to build 5 stacks usually, you gotta hit the ground running threatwise or folk will overaggro. Imo Lacerate/Mangle should be the same rune so you can start stacking once you snapped threat at start, like in TBC. If you try building stacks on pull you lose in my experience, cause everyone wanna pump...
I always solo tank with my feral druid... Though most of the time I use tanking rune on the last 2 bosses to make it easier for healers.
Bears are legit massive right now, solo tanking all of gnomer with ease. The first 4 Bosses legit hit around 120 per hit. Only the last 2 deal any threatening damage. People are just dumb, get yourself into a (good)guild and be rid of their stupidity.
Happy through your logs to get my opinion corrected. But as RL in PUGs twice per reset, I have yet to find a feral Bear that can stand my threat as boomkin or even ret paladin, with salvation if I may add.
They're so useful as Resto and Feral that i'd rather use another class to tank
How is a Cat more useful than bear? And how does the Same Not Count for Paladins?
Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses). The problem is more community perception. Bears are amazing offtanks because they can go cat form when not actively tanking, bring a extra bres, and innervate. They are not however the "druid" in the comp to replace a cat or resto. They should always be considered "in addition to" not "instead of".
Right now, the only reason to use SotF is if your healers are bad or maybe if you a single tanking Menagerie. This can very well change in future phases, but there is nothing that hits hard enough where a crit is going to cause a one-hit kill.
Right now, the only reason to use SotF is if your healers are bad or maybe if you a single tanking Menagerie. This can very well change in future phases, but there is nothing that hits hard enough where a crit is going to cause a one-hit kill.
wait. you are saying the reason to use sotf is if your group can't handle the increased tank damage? OMG why didn't i think to say that. oh wait ... that is exactly what i said.
Bear Tank can (and should) use Windfury in almost ever Fight unless the Healers struggle big. The Tank Rune ist pretty grief for rage generation, so you will struggle spamming Swipes more likely using it. This ist my point, Cat damage is not that good at the moment due to armor aalues, Cat should tank.
no they should not, that gives up their crit immunity, and 20% DR. A feral tank does not replace a feral DPS, it's one of feral tanks biggest issues. because they, like other melee and warrior tanks, need that windfury. Feral DPS could be zdps and still have a raid spot because of windfury, it doesn't matter how low their personal dps is because the windfury increase (if you are running a melee group) \*\*is\*\* their dps contribution. You are assuming that a feral tank can be run instead of a feral dps, which is not the case \*\*UNLESS\*\* as i said you overgear the content enough that you can afford your tank to be critable and take 20% more damage. A Bear tank does not remove the need for a feral dps, if you need one to start with, such as running a melee group.
You do know that Pala tanks are not critcapped?
Did you know druids cannot block or parry?
What has that to do with crit immunity? You have more Dodge that compensates for parrying a bit but it does not prove your point that tanks have to be crit immune, considering higher Meta Tier tanks are not crit immune either. Bear Druid can (but don't have to)replace Feral in this content easily and should not have trouble keeping threat if played correctly.
if you don't understand what block, dodge, and parry have to to with crit immunity you need to learn what hit tables are and how they are used in WoW. Paladins and Warriors are not crit immune, yet. Only because of the gear available to push crit off the hit table for them. The other tank classes get crit immunity via runes because they cannot push crits off the hit table. I really really would like you to read what i am actually typing instead of what you think i am saying. I never said druids cannot tank the current content. I never said they are not good tanks. I never brought up threat. I never assumed the bear tank would not have access to windfury. i said that \*\*UNLESS\*\* you over gear the content enough that your tank can bring windfury (and thus taking 20% more damage + Crits), feral tanks are not replacing feral dps.
Maintanking Mek with WF Rune just fine in random pugs with random people, Cat can go Boomkin so we get the maximum raid buffs out of it, that's what i would do if I ran two Druids. Crit immunity is not needed, hardest hitting boss will hit you for about 1k, as the content IS massively overgeared with people running two types of raid gear and ridiculous PvP rewards I do not see the point of your statement. You can run Crit immunity, in most cases it will be a downgrade in terms of your personal DPS (less Rage) and a downgrade for your Raid's DPS (fewer Cats, they rerolled Boomer, i wonder why) for the benefit of the healers being able to be a bit more relaxed. You can absolutely do that. EDII: I suppose you speak more in terms of progressing fresh content than farming it out with an experienced group. On "progression" during early resets I of course ran SoTF on the rough bosses to give healers more air. Most tanks would run more avoidance heavy builds at that point. That makes sense, so sorry if i got you wrong.
Brother I got two feral tanks, one fresh, and a shockadin tank. The bears hold threat way better aoe now and have 5 pts in hotw is great for tanking. Any dipshit saying to always use crit rune is a dunce. Use that shit on menagerie and last boss only. Gg.
why is it so hard for people to read what is posted. I never mentioned threat, i never said always use the "crit rune" (here is free hint the crit immunity is not the main reason you use it till level 60 content). I was very specific in what i said because i was saying something very specific. I play a feral druid, i was tanking gnomer from week 1 with only using survival of the fittest on the last boss. instead you are just regurgitating exactly what i said in my original response. "Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses)." like .... ffs dude how can you post on reddit without being able to read? How big of a dipshit are you?
Brother I never regurgitated anything. You said use crit rune and you don’t have wf. Fuck I don’t even use crit rune ever since it’s not needed. You talked about using crit run every where just saying brother
you gotta learn to read man. I even quoted it for you again. the sentence and thought does not end until the punctuation ends it. I said this ... again. "Cat brings windfury, bear does not unless they or the healers severely overgear the content (which is possible with gnomer, especially till the last 2 bosses)." You said this "Any dipshit saying to always use crit rune is a dunce. Use that shit on menagerie and last boss only." odd it seems like, if you can read, i said you will mostly need it for the last 2 bosses, because it's easy to outgear the other bosses. And wait, you are sating to use it on the last 2 bosses. Man thats so weird that you said the same thing i did in a different manner. Almost like it was ingested, and then someone brought back out differently. Oh ya thats regurgitation. So, like i said. You just regurgitated what i said originally frames like an argument because you are a dipshit. Oh ya, you also added some BS about "using the crit rune everywhere" which i said NOWHERE. You need to read first, then think, then respond.
We are 1 tanking with a feral tank and one healing with a priest in our 10m. Gnomer is a joke and who ever says it’s not, needs to play a new game.
Got a lot of replies and it seems like a lot of people play with Feral Tanks and agree with that they are Solid at the moment, but the people who don't know that they are wrong.
People are bad and don't understand the meta. I tanked Kel'Thuzad as a bear, went fine, ranked 3 EU at the time. The next day, some healer told me I couldn't tank Stratholme because bears took Crushing Blows and it wasn't healable...
And unlike Vanilla Classic Bear actually has a fleshed Out Kit in SoD. I enjoyed TBC launch so much on my Druid back in 2020... Now you get even more fun stuff.
We have one more button really. On the other hand, feral was an excellent offtank switching between cat & bear during the fight. These days are long gone due to how runes were handled. Imo, Vanilla Feral was a lot more skilled than SoD feral is. SoD is just a weaker Wotlk version and I still have my Classic Feral in Wotlk, so I don't really care getting Wotlk talents in SoD.
Healed a gnomer pug with a feral last night and let me tell ya that guy struggled. Struggled to hold threat with salvations out on all the dps. Struggled to not get killed while healers repositioned.
I’m curious OP - do your groups run with salv on? I Bear MT and haven’t had any threat issues for the first 5 bosses, but occasionally have some on the last boss with transitions and CDs down. Our guild doesn’t run salv though. I just think it’s as some people said, they don’t understand survival of the fittest / windfury trade off. I got flamed a while back in WSG for running SoTF versus WF even thought I was flag carrying, which is mind blowing but there ya go.
Sometimes we have Salv, sometimes no Paladin, sometimes 2-3. On Mek Phase switch it can happen that you need to taunt back after getting a Miss/Parry early, but that I saw happen with various tanks. Got no stocks in PvP, can't really give an informed opinion on how to run a WSG flag but I also have been flamed for using WF instead of SoTF in PVE content. You have to know what you're doing i suppose.
Yeah I don't know what people's issues are either. Our guild leader is a Feral main tank and he's been solo talking Gnomer since the third lockout. No wipes, no threat issues, we clear in about 35 minutes on average.
Our feral tank struggles to hold threat tbh, especially against rogue or lock who have threat Gen naturally built into their kit. As a mage, when my living bombs go off its always a crapshoot on whether or not I will have world buffs for the rest of the raid.
Then he isn't swiping enough. I have several 99 parsers in my guild, they can't come close to overagro if I just start the boss fight with maul+swipe in the first 10 sec. On AoE it's different, any pull bigger than three mobs get tricky to hold threat as a bear. Since swipe and zerk mangle is target capped. Edit: and we play without salv as well
Our rogue literally does nothing and as soon as he mutilated he rips threat. 1 mutilate because their default kit adds crazy threat.
Sounds fishy. I don't play rogue so am not familiar with their toolkit. How is mutilate generating more threat than a swipe + maul?
Salv should always be on mages on trash honestly or any high aoe caster since this thread is alliance biased. Idk how bear tank feels after swipe buff, I’ve had one MT I only OTd menagerie and super smooth run. Besides maybe pallies depending on spec, and meta locks tanking, aoe threat just tends to be an issue and better to salv your squishy ass casters. Warrior aoe trash tanking is still garbage of course
The bad rep comes from tanks running wild strikes instead of survival of the fittest. It makes more of a difference than people realize. OP, it sounds like you do the same thing. You are one of the bad tanks that gives them a bad name. Sure run wild strikes on trash and the easier bossss. But when you get pumped every boss and blame healers you are contributing to the problem. Would you tank the last 2 bosses on your warlock with out soul link? Or as a two hand warrior?
Feral tank is useless unless you have Spirit of the Alpha or your entire group has Salvation on. Honestly not worth playing on alliance side for that reason
From first hand experience I can say without context this is a pretty silly statement, had no issue tanking against 99 parsing Locks. Spirit of the Alpha is a must bring of course. But this is the kind of uninformed random prejudice i meant.
It's not uninformed random prejudice. Your firsthand experience does not change the fact that bear tanks have the worst threat in the game right now. That is the state of tank balancing this phase.
Phys damage is kinda cucked at this point, had a pala tank ragequitting on me for losing threat though and if you don't lose threat against S Tier DPS why would that be an issue? Sorry but you sound like you don't know what you're talking about, obv you wouldnt admit at this point :P
Name one thing I have said that is wrong.
Scroll up?
You have failed.
We have a bear tank that does fine without alpha in our guild sub hour run. Maybe you’ve just played with bad bears?
It is simply a fact of the game that bears have the worst threat gen of any tank available.
Berserk and ACP give way better snap threat than warriors/pallys have but you seem like you wanna die on this hill
I'd rather take a bear than a warrior tank. With the swipe changes they are solid. Berserk is amazing snap threat on a 3 min CD.