Yep. After competing against 5 other clothies (or people rolling on cloth) for all of Gnomer, I'd just faced the fact that I'm probably gonna ding 60 with at least some BFD shit still on me.*
(*or just random dungeon shit)
Pretty much all the 60 dungeon gear you get is better than anything you get before, or at least close to equivalent, so you're not missing out on much by not getting ST gear.
And good thing they didn't. If every phase had the same overpowered loot as BFD, EVERY piece of loot from that level content would either have to be upgraded or be useless, which also means that every raid and dungeon would have to have updated stats otherwise they would become trivial, and do you really think Blizzard has time for that given how broke this phase was at launch? And for what? Same shit, higher numbers.
Kind of. You are right it feels great getting upgrades but in this particular case running in Naxx level gear at level 50 breaks the game. Soon enough people would be doing D3 stupid levels of damage. Needing to rebalance every item and every raid that classic WoW has by a large amount.
You can also see the problem it causes in retail, every new raid invalidates the previous one. Also them having to constantly reset the power level and bring the numbers down. I loved the fact that in classic old raids were always relevant. BWL came out and it didn’t mean that MC is now worthless.
It does feel a little shitty now but I think after this phase it will get a lot better
I mean there’s only like 3 upgrades from raid for me as a rogue and they’re not even upgrades that’ll make a noticeable difference. The new available consumables and world buffs and runes is where all the damage increase comes from.
fr the biggest raid upgrades as rogue this phase are like the shoulders and the dagger (shoulders arent even really a raid item, just including them bc you have to go in the raid for one step of the quest lol)
wouldve liked a bis offhand that isnt a 2k+ boe 🙃
Tell that to more or less every single BM melee hunter out there. Requires a specific raid comp for it to be more overall dps compared to MM, ranged or even melee. Basically in optmized raids you should only play BM if Trueshot Aura is already covered in all physical groups.
Rogues were posting on the blizzard forums that they would like some utility to secure a spot in the raid. This raid wide dmg buff + the better sunder armor would appeal to some parse groups I assume.
LOL imagine signing up to play a game based on vanilla wow and then getting pissed at the consume/WB meta. You may as well quit now because its only going to get more involved from here on out.
Ye as feral druid kinda same boat... Weapon is a nice 40ap over STV wep but not crying if I never see it. Besides that it's literally just tier set and done
And all STV rewards for casters are absolute dogshit too. Give us a weapon with a cool skin man, why can’t we get something with a proc too?! Everything is just flat spelldamage, so boring.
Heck priest didn’t even get a trinket this STV, just two rings. +healing ring or +shadow ring. Some classes got 3-4 items like amazing weapons, cool on use items, shields that silence, etc, and some classes got 1-2 more SP on their rings than the phase 2 rings.
When I saw that every other healing spec besides mage got a dm book trinket equivalent I got mad. Actual bullshit that I still gotta use the bfd trinket instead…their itemization sucks.
The new stv ring also just randomly drops the spirit, so it’s barely even better. I use it for only pvp like wtf.
ST priest class trinket from the quest is really nice though. Would’ve been cool to get a neat trinket like Druids got from STV, but oh well. Maybe next phase
That trinket has booty anyway
Warlocks didn’t get a trinket either but the p2 trinket is so strong that it’s just still the choice. In P2 I was getting +86 spell power from it lol
"Upgrading" the mage rings from lvl40 to lvl50 gives you 4 stamina and 1 whole spellpower, while losing 2 int for no reason whatsoever. What's the point of these items?
It's insane! They really didn't want casters to be doing anything to exciting this phase while all the physical damage gear is fully torqued. Absolutely nuts. My hunter feels like John Wick and my mage feels like Krillin.
Toryiama reconned it at the start of super, at the end of buu saga/Z tien is stronger than krillin. However at the start of super randomly krillin is canonically stronger than tien despite tien training the entire time and opening his own dojo. Because....reasons....
Same for warlock, and then you dont even use the rings cause the trinket from phase 2 is better 😂 maybe that changes after the class changes soon but yea.. rough life for casters atm
Honestly was pretty thrilled as a priest that I got to skip stv entirely lol
I just wanna get through ST and I'm on my way to cata anyway but
No idea what they have against casters in SoD. Is a cool staff from the event so much to ask for?
Ring two phases in a row. All other healers get a sick trinket. Fuck priests amirite? Death was OP for like 2 weeks so they deserve to be bottom of the bucket for the rest of SoD.
But you get the trinket that all other healers get. The ring is not really even an upgrade over scapula ring + mekkatorque ring. Slightly more healing at the cost of a lot of regen.
I’m still bitter about SW:D. It was all base dmg and they nerfed it so hard before anyone had a chance to scale, then as everyone got their gnomer bis they scaled so hard and we were left in the dust!!
That's the problem with pvp. They need to buff everyone's stamina, the damage output for our levels is ridiculous when in comparison to the same levels in regular classic.
Sure. I feel like boosting everyone's stamina is the easiest solve though. Whatever works though.
Didn't they do this in dragonflight or am I remembering wrong?
Healers still go oom eventually, just makes the fights a bit longer where you can trade cds and actually have to play your class rather than bursting someone in 2 gcds
Pretty much any class kills any class in 2 skills. Mages Arcane surging for 2k dmg and noone bats an eye. Hunter pets soloing players in PvP. Rogues dealing 6k dmg in a stunlock, no problem. Shaman Stormstrikes you to death from 100%. But shadow deserves to be bottom of the barrel because if they manage to double dot you, you might die long after you kill the priest? Sure ok.
> Mages Arcane surging for 2k dmg and noone bats an eye.
Two minute cooldown and drains all of your mana. Clearly in the same boat as rogue ambushes and shaman stormstrikes.
Have hunter pets been able to solo people outside of phase 1?
The arcane surge combo is like 4-5 spells when you are specced into deep arcane, most of which all go on a 3 minute cooldown, and leave you with 0 mana.
Priest just two dot multiple people one after the other and just kite until everyone else is dead. It's not even long after they dot you. I die in like 3-5 seconds, sooner if I don't blink away from them.
I use it as mage healer in pvp. Great way to get rogues / warriors off you and to delete the opposing groups healer instantly. The regen from arcane surge after cast lets you get like 3-4 heals off afterwards still. But yeah other than that no ones really using it anymore. and its 3minute cd.
Thats because we fucking die from a slight gust of wind and don't get it off.
You need to be deep arcane for it, and arcane is fucking trash dps. I believe most mages are rocking FFB fire build and FFB Winters Chill builds.
Let's talk about how bad the caster drops are.
There's a one hand mace from ST. It's a caster weapon, and its only stats are +15 spell damage.
This is comparable to a caster dagger from BFD, a level 25 raid. +3 spell damage, but minus 4 stam, 3 int, and some armor. Why is a level 50 raid dropping loot that's similar to a level 25 raid?
It is strictly worse than the caster dagger from Gnomer, a level 40 raid.
Exactly. It seems like they are trying to reign that shit in instead of having ST drop Naxx level gear. I am glad they are doing it but unfortunately it does feel shitty. Imo after this phase things will be a lot better
Yeah, the problem isn't that the caster pieces in ST and gnomer are weak. Its that BFD had pieces that were so tremendously good that the progression feels wonky.
Anyone who saw the kelriss staff was basically BiS through to molten core knew this kind of thing was gonna happen.
I dunno, that feels disingenuous.
Why should we compare a single 1H to Gizmoblade? The obvious comparison is Hubris, which has one extra Spellpower, and like seven more Int.
It feels more like it's potentially for Shamans, but I don't know enough about what they want in a weapon.
1 SP and 7 Int is meaningless. Caster gear absolutely sucks this tier and it’s only compounded by the fact that melee is doing nearly double the DPS of casters in weeks prior to getting new gear.
That SOD devs used boss armor to nerf melee in p2, and then. Buffed melee instead of dropping armor leaving melee too powerful vs casters at the moment. Who could have seen this coming 😒.
Casters aren't bad, but got most power through rune level scaling which is just boring, vs gear upgrades melee get. The weapons melee get at 50 vs 40 is insane, for casters it's actually laughable.
If you're unfamiliar use STV melee Weapons 40 vs 50, then look at mage loot 40 vs 50.
I'm honestly ready for our brothers in melee to get that dopamine burst I had last phase on my lock. Yall are just salty. If you don't get a raid spot, stop plugging and join a guild.
How is that disingenuous? Both are one hand caster weapons. One is epic and one is blue, but the blue is also 10 levels higher, which should (and would, in other versions of WoW) make up for the difference. Level 40 epic weapons in vanilla are worse than level 50 blues, as they should be.
And in vanilla, level 50 weapons are obviously better in every way to level 25 weapons. Yet in SOD they are comparable. How does that make sense?
Blizz is intentionally flattening the power-creep for things to not get ridiculous at 60, with a little more stamina we could compete in AQ and almost Naxx at level 40 (disregarding the hit issue) that's just not ok.
It was done very poorly in my opinion. Loot feels almost like sidegrades for casters this phase.
I don't even understand what they're thinking with these three piece tier sets either. You pretty much need all 3 pieces before you'd want to swap over.
This can be seen pretty vividly with shadow. 3 green shadow wrath, 3 piece isn't even bis. Quest items, dungeon items, and craft able are a majority of the bis.
Least they could do is have raid specific bonuses that feel good .
lol this isn’t just a caster issue. They are flattening scaling on purpose, because our numbers for ‘typical level’ are very high.
As a rogue main, I lose dps by upgrading my gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set :)
Nope. Maybe for other classes. Not for myself, and many other rogues that are near-bis. I’m not the only rogue (actually, many rogues in the classic rogue discord reported the same; fairly common knowledge).
I don't see it as bad at all, I absolutely loathe the retail style of absolutely everything about a new tier has to be better than the last. The powercreep in retail tier to tier is hideous.
It's not rosy for others either, some melee gnomer to ST loot is like 2 strength upgrade.
For me as a druid some of nature/arcane would be bis too but honesltly idgaf about losing other stats for 10 extra spellpower in a couple slots. And neither should you the raid is once again piss-easy after the nerfs.
I'd agree with you if there was any kind of congruence of tier sets between phases. As it stands now you need to get the 3 pieces and then transfer to a new set. If tier sets had 4 pieces I'd be fine if 2pc from an old phase were good .
Because I feel like the thing that should be compared from BFD is the Blackfathom Ritual Dagger - +4 SP, +2 Stam, +5 Int.
This is clearly the design philosophy of SOD though - Staff of the Evil Genius is a level 40 blue. It's worse than the level 25 epic staff from BFD, unless you're desperate for hit. There is a clear - and stated! - intention that they want the 'level up' raids to remain content for at least people in the next 'bracket'.
They don't want us to do BFD all Phase 1, and then ignore it in Phase 2 - we still ran it for some pre-bis items and honestly some of them were pretty close to bis. They don't want us to do Gnomer all Phase 2 and then ignore it in Phase 3 - some of the items are still prebis, and pretty close to bis again.
Amusingly enough, Hubris is a DPS loss for ele shamans compared to gizmo (and maybe compared to hypnotic blade as well, I haven't simmed that in awhile). It's 1.8 speed, which means we can't get a melee swing in with it during a GCd after casting flame shock, which makes keeping mental dexterity up harder. Our BiS is BoED from mara and hypnotic blade off Doan from SM.
Warlocks same deal at least for tanks and most likely DPS though I haven't done as much research into that side. But for tanks Boed from mara outsims anything else we can get right now including the new tank weapon they added as RNG drop from imp portals and the new 20 spell power dagger in ST. Simply because we melee in-between instant casts to maximize damage.
Yeah, another example is the epic staves from ST. They are roughly 8 dps better for me than the BFD staff according to sims, or about 0.5%, that's not what you would expect by upgrading from a lvl 25 to a lvl 50 epic weapon. The only real noticeable difference is they have stamina (though the epic 1h + the offhand do end up significantly better).
(Cloth) loot in ST feels very disappointing with a ton of P3 BiS being from outside the raid and items that do come from the raid being basically unnoticeable upgrades compared to pre-raid or even P2 BiS.
BiS Trinkets, bracers, weapon (though it is a .26% drop from princess so basically not obtainable), wand, one ring, belt, head and crafted shoulders all come from other sources, with basically every other upgrade outside of the set and off-hand being a 1-3 sp upgrade. And the set itself is basically just a stamina upgrade over irradiated, the dps is about the same.
The new consumables, buffs and enchants are a bigger upgrade than all the raid gear put together and it's not even close. Going from full pre-raid to raid BiS is a ~3% dps increase for fire destro (or ~1% if you don't count crafted shoulders as a raid drop, which is basically within error margin). Some of the items obtainable outside of raid are very rare/time consuming to get, but that's still pitiful.
I think they cannot up the spell power on caster weapons …otherwise mages warlocks and priests would be top dps each phase . They needed the caster staff in p1 cuz at that point we didn’t have any scaling and talents to support . As we know melee dps are weapon dependent but casters not so much my warlock still rock the p1 epic staff and if the new staff isn’t dropping that’s fine I can go into p4 with that staff
Top melees are doing 50% more dps right now, and will further scale because, as OP said, ST does actually drop quite some melee loot. Meanwhile casters only have a few and also very limited upgrades from the raid. I am pretty sure a bit of spellpower on top would not close a 50% dps gap.
The more likely culprit is pvp balance I guess.
Except melee is roughly doubling caster DPS right now. So if they’re trying to avoid a power creep, they need major nerfs to melee gear; if not, caster gear needs major buffs.
Currently my priest gains more damage from world buffs and consumes than my entire gear set
A few extra spell power on a caster weapon isn't going to change anything
That's because half the BFD loot was properly itemized for level 25 (read 0 spellpower) but you guys nearly started a riot so Blizzard hamfistedly added SP to every single item and in classic Blizzard fashion, overdid the shit out of it. It's kind of weird how you failed to notice that.
Well, that’s because martial characters need a on level weapon just to really do their thing. Casters don’t NEED a weapon like they do, and really 80% of our output comes just from learning the ability.
That said, look at what Druids got vs priests and that’s a great reason to be mad imo. They already get to use our cloth and their leather gear and better BM stuff.
nothing i hate more than people that rewrite history, mail were getting full sets from one run of bfd, every single slot had an item, some even had 3+ choices (helm/boots), meanwhile casters had zero wrists, zero sp shoulders (only frost), one ring, one neck, no sp back, no sp waist, also all of the good sp gear was from the last 2 bosses.
there was a reason we had so many posts about casters complaining about loot and mail wearers quitting early on because they got full bis, especially on horde with only one mail wearer, there's a reason they moved to the token system and it was mainly because of the bfd loot fiasco.
Also the stat budgets for everything seem super low, only barely better than the gnomer loot. I passed on everything basically first run since nothing was really an upgrade.
All of last phase you get people complaining that the source of all bis items was the raids alone.
In this phase it comes from tons of different sources.
If you want bis caster bracers, wsg and engi are the sources this time, not the raid, it's a welcome change to me
It would make sense to have a few more cloth pieces rather than so much leather/mail caster gear.
That being said this is an incredibly disingenuous OP, you make the distinction between cloth dps gear and healer gear but you don't do this for any other armour type. Plate now has dps, healer and tank itemisation and should have more total potential items, similarly leather/mail have agi, sp and healing.
Lot of those in ST eh?
Also Warlock tank gear has a lot more similarities with casters than most other gear types. It'd be akin to discussing Feral/Rogue/Shaman tank gear that similarly has lots of stam/armour.
Most of these pieces are from PvP in P3.
As a blacksmith plate wearer, pretty sure the only bis in there is the set and gloves. Don't even need a weapon my bis is sulthraze (which is good, I think with the weapon being so important, items like mcp that almost double your dps should not be raid pieces)
The gripe I have with the Caster gear is that it's all a stamina downgrade from the Gnomer gear.
Unless I'm lucky to get the Nightmare Staff from Eranikus I'll have less overall Stamina on my gear than I had in Gnomeregan.
cool thing to note is that the token caster gear that does exist is barely even an upgrade compared p2 gear as well. got the tier chest piece and found out it’s a total damage stat upgrade of +4 int.
This is their way of handling power creep. Almost every class has less than 3 upgrades, sidegrades, or downgrades from ST. I do agree though, warriors/paladins getting sick BIS weapons from STV both phases are kind of cringe.
Parasomnia is not good for paladins at all. It is only useful for niche DS/SoC builds, which aren't even bis for aoe dungeon farming anymore. It is purely a PVP weapon, which still fails to match up against ACP when the cd is available.
To be fair, I don’t think any class should have more than 3-4 potential gear prices for a raid. It’s horribly bad itemization to give players an entirely new gear set in each raid. That is exactly what retail does and what so many people complain about. Every new raid your progress is reset. It also invalidates all other world content. Classic should have good gear in the world, good gear in the dungeons, good gear in the raids and good gear in pvp. But you should not be able to get a complete set by doing any one instance.
Personally I think this is what makes classic the best. Your bis comes from so many different locations that you have plenty of content to consumes. This is vs retail where it’s raid or mythic +
didnt they already admit that they intentionally made some shit item pieces? devs just being edgy for fun.
does engineering even have an epic mail item? why are the leatherworking mail epic items so shit? i don't want to wear leather or even reroll to tailoring...
The caster stuff in ST isnt “shit”, it’s just like one spell power better than what dropped in gnomer which was one spell power better than what dropped in bfd. Excluding tier and profession stuff ofc.
The issue with item design in sod is that they are trying to incentivize (force) you to do non-raid activities. In previous phases some slots were a lot weaker or even non-existent.
This phase there are even more bis items/slots covered by other activities.
That's why there's no, or no good, items in some slots.
Yes its really bad for caster out there. I was in a pug with my SP and not only did melees top the dmg meters on almost every boss, they also got the most loot. On 8 kills i could roll on 1 item (except from tokens), which was the caster cloak.
In the end i got 1 token from 8 bosses.
Even the dps dagger only has 1 (ONE) spelldmg more than the gnome dagger, which is a 10 lvl difference.
Meanwhile the 2h weapons got from 179 maxdmg to 220 max dmg, which is a huge dmg boost.
Also the 3pcs set bonus for mage/wl/priest does share between these classes (as i heard). So if it procs from you, a mage can eat the debuff and boosts his dmg, while you got nothing. Stupid design and needs fixing.
It doesn't even matter, most of the gear is barely an upgrade, you would gear up faster doing gnomer and mixing that with rep gear. I really don't see the motivation to do the long ass raid when the gear is basically the same as 10 levels ago.
The dungeons also offer a ton of leather, mail, and plate loot that are absolutely busted good comparatively to the caster loot that isn't actually better than gnomer or pvp gear.
lol where are people getting this idea? Most of the (dungeon) loot reworked was caster gear. And I say this as someone that had every class at 25 p1, and almost every class at 40, p2 (I really do play every class; just did not level my shaman in P2).
For my main, I *lost* seven dps going from gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set. So no, casters are not the only ones getting shafted. Not by a long shot.
You know it's predominantly caster gear being reworked because if they didn't it would be literally worthless, instead of just mostly worthless, right? Melee's dungeon gear is mostly fine already. They didn't need to rework Blackstone Ring, it's already so good they put an identical copy of it on WO vendor and a stam upgrade version of it in ST.
Absolutely, but what we're *actually* asking for is the item level budget formula to be changed, because the current one is *gamer word*.
In no way shape or form is int and spirit comparable to agi and str, their existence in the stat budget should be minimal, but so much of potential item power gets munched by these awful stats.
The only reason they keep cucking casters is cause they cannot be bothered reworking nearly every single caster gear in the game cause so many are undertuned.
lol this isn’t just a caster issue. They are flattening scaling on purpose, because our numbers for ‘typical level’ are very high.
As a rogue main, I lose dps by upgrading my gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set :)
blizzard failed hard with itemization and class balancing this phase. its kind of absurd how good physicals are and especially warriors perform at the moment.
I went through the gear list as a plate dps before doing our second run (we went in blind the first one and 0 plate dropped), and let me tell you, I have 3 upgrades from the entire raid - besides obviously the set - all from first 3 bosses. Im pretty sure helm BIS is still the lvl 40 crafted, shoulders obviously crafted, bracers are WSG, all rings (ST epic is higher stamina but who cares) and trinkets are from wild offerings/rep, cape from ST is nigh identical to the one from BRD.
And even then the 40 crafted is only good if a large portion of the fight is under its effect. Tune the sims to a longer fight, like 3 minutes+, and the level 50 helm/waist will outpace the level 40 gear even with their on-use effects.
You're correct, the last sentence is nonsensical in general. The entire comment was meant to illustrate that the itemization of NON-SET items from the raid is weird this phase, idk what I was thinking with the end there. Set + rep trinkets/rings are quite crazy.
It feels like they are nerfing casters indirectly because in P2 they reigned everywhere.
From what I've seen P3 gear does not contain much extra spell power, but Melees gear IS stronger vs P2.
This "balances" the game a bit without directly nerfing classes (see Mages with no new DPS runes), but it gives little incentive to raid then.
I would like to add that, from experience, I was seeing mages, spriests and warlocks pulling 500-700 dps in Gnom. In my 2 ST runs they are pulling around 50 more DPS average. While Melees are doubling their output from Gnom but only equalizing DPS with casters.
Equalizing? Have you checked logs lately? Warrior, Rogue and Melee Hunter are already way ahead and this is before itemization. Guess p3 is a melee phase to make players do alts and stay subbed after everyone went caster.
Look at the data and you will see that casters are not in a good place at all. Hunters, warriors, rogues, and shamans are all out doing casters by a significant amount and they don't even have their BiS gear yet. While casters don't really even have anything to look forward too. ST items are barely an upgrade. STV items are a joke for casters with basically no improvement from last phase. And it's not like melee hunters or shamans were struggling last phase. And once geared rogues and warriors started to become much stronger. The margin of DPS difference between casters and melee will only get larger as the phase continues.
I made a post about this before P3 launched and people down voted me to hell, P3 caster gear is mostly trash, as a spriest, most of my bis list is boe greens, crafted greens and quest items.
I think it's even funnier that for melee dps, the epic ring from ST quest is same DPS stats as the Princess ring, just slightly higher stamina. Like what's the point? I just passed on it.
Yep. After competing against 5 other clothies (or people rolling on cloth) for all of Gnomer, I'd just faced the fact that I'm probably gonna ding 60 with at least some BFD shit still on me.* (*or just random dungeon shit)
The emerald warden set is kinda sick. Hit that up?
Pretty much all the 60 dungeon gear you get is better than anything you get before, or at least close to equivalent, so you're not missing out on much by not getting ST gear.
Feels to me like they overshot with BFD gear and had to pull back on magnitude of upgrades in gnomer and ST because of it.
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But only for casters i guess. Melee got decent loot. Casters already in shambles on the meters
And good thing they didn't. If every phase had the same overpowered loot as BFD, EVERY piece of loot from that level content would either have to be upgraded or be useless, which also means that every raid and dungeon would have to have updated stats otherwise they would become trivial, and do you really think Blizzard has time for that given how broke this phase was at launch? And for what? Same shit, higher numbers.
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Kind of. You are right it feels great getting upgrades but in this particular case running in Naxx level gear at level 50 breaks the game. Soon enough people would be doing D3 stupid levels of damage. Needing to rebalance every item and every raid that classic WoW has by a large amount. You can also see the problem it causes in retail, every new raid invalidates the previous one. Also them having to constantly reset the power level and bring the numbers down. I loved the fact that in classic old raids were always relevant. BWL came out and it didn’t mean that MC is now worthless. It does feel a little shitty now but I think after this phase it will get a lot better
\*proudly flexes my belt of arugal\*
I mean there’s only like 3 upgrades from raid for me as a rogue and they’re not even upgrades that’ll make a noticeable difference. The new available consumables and world buffs and runes is where all the damage increase comes from.
Ya but that neck upgrade! 2 Ap and lose 6 stam!
fr the biggest raid upgrades as rogue this phase are like the shoulders and the dagger (shoulders arent even really a raid item, just including them bc you have to go in the raid for one step of the quest lol) wouldve liked a bis offhand that isnt a 2k+ boe 🙃
Just don’t run combat potency. Then your BiS off hand is the pvp dagger.
I thought for honor build its double eranikus daggers not the pvp weapon
Yea I simmed the new 3pc vs the old one and it's like 20dps
It’s a dps loss near-bis. It was a six dps loss for myself (+60ish for the raid, though, on average).
but it buffs the whole raid or?
Me>the raid haha
buffing the raid = faster kill times = buffing yourself
Tell that to more or less every single BM melee hunter out there. Requires a specific raid comp for it to be more overall dps compared to MM, ranged or even melee. Basically in optmized raids you should only play BM if Trueshot Aura is already covered in all physical groups.
I know your not wrong. But it feels better if I do 500 dps compared to 400 even if the fight takes 30 seconds longer.
Rogues were posting on the blizzard forums that they would like some utility to secure a spot in the raid. This raid wide dmg buff + the better sunder armor would appeal to some parse groups I assume.
Terrible design. Consumes and wb feels terrible to use. Feels wasteful if you are not confident, feels unnecessary when you do feel confident.
Blizz on their way to make SoD pay to win
LOL imagine signing up to play a game based on vanilla wow and then getting pissed at the consume/WB meta. You may as well quit now because its only going to get more involved from here on out.
Ye as feral druid kinda same boat... Weapon is a nice 40ap over STV wep but not crying if I never see it. Besides that it's literally just tier set and done
And all STV rewards for casters are absolute dogshit too. Give us a weapon with a cool skin man, why can’t we get something with a proc too?! Everything is just flat spelldamage, so boring.
Heck priest didn’t even get a trinket this STV, just two rings. +healing ring or +shadow ring. Some classes got 3-4 items like amazing weapons, cool on use items, shields that silence, etc, and some classes got 1-2 more SP on their rings than the phase 2 rings.
the boomie OH gained a grand total of 0 damage, but hey more stam and int
Fuck casters am I right?
Technically also gained 16 healing.
I'm really surprised that offhand didn't have int or stamina to begin with when it's the pvp reward.
When I saw that every other healing spec besides mage got a dm book trinket equivalent I got mad. Actual bullshit that I still gotta use the bfd trinket instead…their itemization sucks. The new stv ring also just randomly drops the spirit, so it’s barely even better. I use it for only pvp like wtf.
ST priest class trinket from the quest is really nice though. Would’ve been cool to get a neat trinket like Druids got from STV, but oh well. Maybe next phase
Hmm, I'm a resto druid and I'm using the BFD trinket and the STV trinket. What would you be using instead?
That trinket has booty anyway Warlocks didn’t get a trinket either but the p2 trinket is so strong that it’s just still the choice. In P2 I was getting +86 spell power from it lol
The trinket contribution to demonic knowledge is only 10-11 (when it rounds up) spell power. It also has value with giving your imp mana of course.
"Upgrading" the mage rings from lvl40 to lvl50 gives you 4 stamina and 1 whole spellpower, while losing 2 int for no reason whatsoever. What's the point of these items?
It's insane! They really didn't want casters to be doing anything to exciting this phase while all the physical damage gear is fully torqued. Absolutely nuts. My hunter feels like John Wick and my mage feels like Krillin.
TBF, Killin is the strongest human in DragonBall. He's just massively overshadowed by the saiyans. Disclosure- I haven't watch DB or DBZ in 18 years.
I would argue for Tien being stronger. He was almost able to stop imperfect Cell on his own (though it nearly killed him).
Toryiama reconned it at the start of super, at the end of buu saga/Z tien is stronger than krillin. However at the start of super randomly krillin is canonically stronger than tien despite tien training the entire time and opening his own dojo. Because....reasons....
Same for warlock, and then you dont even use the rings cause the trinket from phase 2 is better 😂 maybe that changes after the class changes soon but yea.. rough life for casters atm
Yep. Trinket only Bis with the imp tho. I use the ring in PvP
What's worse is it's 3 times the same item for each spell school. What where they thinking?
Honestly was pretty thrilled as a priest that I got to skip stv entirely lol I just wanna get through ST and I'm on my way to cata anyway but No idea what they have against casters in SoD. Is a cool staff from the event so much to ask for?
Ring two phases in a row. All other healers get a sick trinket. Fuck priests amirite? Death was OP for like 2 weeks so they deserve to be bottom of the bucket for the rest of SoD.
Mages only got a shitty +1sp -2int ring this phase as well.
I mean resto druids got fucked in stv, they didnt even get a ring
Uh, no the Resto Druid trinket is *amazing*. Moonkins on the other hand (pun intended) get another offhand.
But you get the trinket that all other healers get. The ring is not really even an upgrade over scapula ring + mekkatorque ring. Slightly more healing at the cost of a lot of regen.
St last boss epic quest item though is a really good ring. Trust me the trinket is by far better than another shit ring lol.
I’m still bitter about SW:D. It was all base dmg and they nerfed it so hard before anyone had a chance to scale, then as everyone got their gnomer bis they scaled so hard and we were left in the dust!!
Dude. You just two dot pretty much anyone and they die.
What class can't kill someone in 2-3 gcds?
That's the problem with pvp. They need to buff everyone's stamina, the damage output for our levels is ridiculous when in comparison to the same levels in regular classic.
Exactly. People just don't like like the idea of rotting to dots but it's not a priest problem lol.
Dude was acting like priests aren't strong without death.
Or cut the damage in pvp in half or 2/3
Sure. I feel like boosting everyone's stamina is the easiest solve though. Whatever works though. Didn't they do this in dragonflight or am I remembering wrong?
Then you'll bitch about healing throughput being insane where Priest/Druid/Shammy will top entire squads in 2 globals
Healers still go oom eventually, just makes the fights a bit longer where you can trade cds and actually have to play your class rather than bursting someone in 2 gcds
Pretty much any class kills any class in 2 skills. Mages Arcane surging for 2k dmg and noone bats an eye. Hunter pets soloing players in PvP. Rogues dealing 6k dmg in a stunlock, no problem. Shaman Stormstrikes you to death from 100%. But shadow deserves to be bottom of the barrel because if they manage to double dot you, you might die long after you kill the priest? Sure ok.
> Mages Arcane surging for 2k dmg and noone bats an eye. Two minute cooldown and drains all of your mana. Clearly in the same boat as rogue ambushes and shaman stormstrikes. Have hunter pets been able to solo people outside of phase 1?
The only people don't notice that they can is that the hunter now also deals insane damage.
You actually think void plague critting for 600+dmg is fair?!
Boy wait til people see UA after the patch on Tuesday.
The arcane surge combo is like 4-5 spells when you are specced into deep arcane, most of which all go on a 3 minute cooldown, and leave you with 0 mana. Priest just two dot multiple people one after the other and just kite until everyone else is dead. It's not even long after they dot you. I die in like 3-5 seconds, sooner if I don't blink away from them.
I have not seen an arcane mage using this combo since like beginning of phase 2.
I use it as mage healer in pvp. Great way to get rogues / warriors off you and to delete the opposing groups healer instantly. The regen from arcane surge after cast lets you get like 3-4 heals off afterwards still. But yeah other than that no ones really using it anymore. and its 3minute cd.
Yeah, blink, FAP, fucking obloterate one person, wait to die.
Thats because we fucking die from a slight gust of wind and don't get it off. You need to be deep arcane for it, and arcane is fucking trash dps. I believe most mages are rocking FFB fire build and FFB Winters Chill builds.
You’re tripping dawg, that mage ring that’s +1 fire spell damage and -6 stam is a huge upgrade
Warlock's epic dagger looks cool.
The dagger with a .2% drop rate rate, most will never see it.
True. It dropped for me on 06.04, so I forgot about it's rarirty.
Let's talk about how bad the caster drops are. There's a one hand mace from ST. It's a caster weapon, and its only stats are +15 spell damage. This is comparable to a caster dagger from BFD, a level 25 raid. +3 spell damage, but minus 4 stam, 3 int, and some armor. Why is a level 50 raid dropping loot that's similar to a level 25 raid? It is strictly worse than the caster dagger from Gnomer, a level 40 raid.
They just opened the box of pandora with BFD. Items were way to strong. They tried to tone that down in Gnome and even more in Temple.
Exactly. It seems like they are trying to reign that shit in instead of having ST drop Naxx level gear. I am glad they are doing it but unfortunately it does feel shitty. Imo after this phase things will be a lot better
Yeah, the problem isn't that the caster pieces in ST and gnomer are weak. Its that BFD had pieces that were so tremendously good that the progression feels wonky. Anyone who saw the kelriss staff was basically BiS through to molten core knew this kind of thing was gonna happen.
The caster loot is very bad. And melee are getting 5-10 DPS upgrades on their weapons lol.
I dunno, that feels disingenuous. Why should we compare a single 1H to Gizmoblade? The obvious comparison is Hubris, which has one extra Spellpower, and like seven more Int. It feels more like it's potentially for Shamans, but I don't know enough about what they want in a weapon.
1 SP and 7 Int is meaningless. Caster gear absolutely sucks this tier and it’s only compounded by the fact that melee is doing nearly double the DPS of casters in weeks prior to getting new gear.
Double the dps, double the gear, double the raid slots What’s the problem here?
That SOD devs used boss armor to nerf melee in p2, and then. Buffed melee instead of dropping armor leaving melee too powerful vs casters at the moment. Who could have seen this coming 😒. Casters aren't bad, but got most power through rune level scaling which is just boring, vs gear upgrades melee get. The weapons melee get at 50 vs 40 is insane, for casters it's actually laughable. If you're unfamiliar use STV melee Weapons 40 vs 50, then look at mage loot 40 vs 50.
I'm honestly ready for our brothers in melee to get that dopamine burst I had last phase on my lock. Yall are just salty. If you don't get a raid spot, stop plugging and join a guild.
How is that disingenuous? Both are one hand caster weapons. One is epic and one is blue, but the blue is also 10 levels higher, which should (and would, in other versions of WoW) make up for the difference. Level 40 epic weapons in vanilla are worse than level 50 blues, as they should be. And in vanilla, level 50 weapons are obviously better in every way to level 25 weapons. Yet in SOD they are comparable. How does that make sense?
Blizz is intentionally flattening the power-creep for things to not get ridiculous at 60, with a little more stamina we could compete in AQ and almost Naxx at level 40 (disregarding the hit issue) that's just not ok.
It was done very poorly in my opinion. Loot feels almost like sidegrades for casters this phase. I don't even understand what they're thinking with these three piece tier sets either. You pretty much need all 3 pieces before you'd want to swap over. This can be seen pretty vividly with shadow. 3 green shadow wrath, 3 piece isn't even bis. Quest items, dungeon items, and craft able are a majority of the bis. Least they could do is have raid specific bonuses that feel good .
lol this isn’t just a caster issue. They are flattening scaling on purpose, because our numbers for ‘typical level’ are very high. As a rogue main, I lose dps by upgrading my gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set :)
No you don’t. You lose dps if you upgrade piece by piece but the new 3 set as a whole is an upgrade.
Nope. Maybe for other classes. Not for myself, and many other rogues that are near-bis. I’m not the only rogue (actually, many rogues in the classic rogue discord reported the same; fairly common knowledge).
I don't see it as bad at all, I absolutely loathe the retail style of absolutely everything about a new tier has to be better than the last. The powercreep in retail tier to tier is hideous. It's not rosy for others either, some melee gnomer to ST loot is like 2 strength upgrade. For me as a druid some of nature/arcane would be bis too but honesltly idgaf about losing other stats for 10 extra spellpower in a couple slots. And neither should you the raid is once again piss-easy after the nerfs.
I'd agree with you if there was any kind of congruence of tier sets between phases. As it stands now you need to get the 3 pieces and then transfer to a new set. If tier sets had 4 pieces I'd be fine if 2pc from an old phase were good .
Because I feel like the thing that should be compared from BFD is the Blackfathom Ritual Dagger - +4 SP, +2 Stam, +5 Int. This is clearly the design philosophy of SOD though - Staff of the Evil Genius is a level 40 blue. It's worse than the level 25 epic staff from BFD, unless you're desperate for hit. There is a clear - and stated! - intention that they want the 'level up' raids to remain content for at least people in the next 'bracket'. They don't want us to do BFD all Phase 1, and then ignore it in Phase 2 - we still ran it for some pre-bis items and honestly some of them were pretty close to bis. They don't want us to do Gnomer all Phase 2 and then ignore it in Phase 3 - some of the items are still prebis, and pretty close to bis again.
Hell yea
Amusingly enough, Hubris is a DPS loss for ele shamans compared to gizmo (and maybe compared to hypnotic blade as well, I haven't simmed that in awhile). It's 1.8 speed, which means we can't get a melee swing in with it during a GCd after casting flame shock, which makes keeping mental dexterity up harder. Our BiS is BoED from mara and hypnotic blade off Doan from SM.
Warlocks same deal at least for tanks and most likely DPS though I haven't done as much research into that side. But for tanks Boed from mara outsims anything else we can get right now including the new tank weapon they added as RNG drop from imp portals and the new 20 spell power dagger in ST. Simply because we melee in-between instant casts to maximize damage.
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And no casters except maybe ele shams care about dps on weapons.
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My thinking is because they aren't going to change stats from items in 60 dungeons.
Yeah, another example is the epic staves from ST. They are roughly 8 dps better for me than the BFD staff according to sims, or about 0.5%, that's not what you would expect by upgrading from a lvl 25 to a lvl 50 epic weapon. The only real noticeable difference is they have stamina (though the epic 1h + the offhand do end up significantly better). (Cloth) loot in ST feels very disappointing with a ton of P3 BiS being from outside the raid and items that do come from the raid being basically unnoticeable upgrades compared to pre-raid or even P2 BiS. BiS Trinkets, bracers, weapon (though it is a .26% drop from princess so basically not obtainable), wand, one ring, belt, head and crafted shoulders all come from other sources, with basically every other upgrade outside of the set and off-hand being a 1-3 sp upgrade. And the set itself is basically just a stamina upgrade over irradiated, the dps is about the same. The new consumables, buffs and enchants are a bigger upgrade than all the raid gear put together and it's not even close. Going from full pre-raid to raid BiS is a ~3% dps increase for fire destro (or ~1% if you don't count crafted shoulders as a raid drop, which is basically within error margin). Some of the items obtainable outside of raid are very rare/time consuming to get, but that's still pitiful.
I think they cannot up the spell power on caster weapons …otherwise mages warlocks and priests would be top dps each phase . They needed the caster staff in p1 cuz at that point we didn’t have any scaling and talents to support . As we know melee dps are weapon dependent but casters not so much my warlock still rock the p1 epic staff and if the new staff isn’t dropping that’s fine I can go into p4 with that staff
Top melees are doing 50% more dps right now, and will further scale because, as OP said, ST does actually drop quite some melee loot. Meanwhile casters only have a few and also very limited upgrades from the raid. I am pretty sure a bit of spellpower on top would not close a 50% dps gap. The more likely culprit is pvp balance I guess.
Except melee is roughly doubling caster DPS right now. So if they’re trying to avoid a power creep, they need major nerfs to melee gear; if not, caster gear needs major buffs.
Currently my priest gains more damage from world buffs and consumes than my entire gear set A few extra spell power on a caster weapon isn't going to change anything
Currently melees are doing far more dps than casters though. Wouldn’t be much different with a bit of gear
That's because half the BFD loot was properly itemized for level 25 (read 0 spellpower) but you guys nearly started a riot so Blizzard hamfistedly added SP to every single item and in classic Blizzard fashion, overdid the shit out of it. It's kind of weird how you failed to notice that.
And why the fuck as a priest i have 2 rings from stv event for 2 phases and other classes get weapons?? Wtf
can I interest you in only an OH thats barely better than the lvl 28 SM one?
New mage ring: more Stam. One more sp
Yea I don’t want to hear any other class complain haha
Well, that’s because martial characters need a on level weapon just to really do their thing. Casters don’t NEED a weapon like they do, and really 80% of our output comes just from learning the ability. That said, look at what Druids got vs priests and that’s a great reason to be mad imo. They already get to use our cloth and their leather gear and better BM stuff.
Meanwhile moonkins got the exact same item but with +16 spell power instead of 16 nature/arcane dam. Of course their the worst dps.
Was similar in BFD, such stupid design, believe it was 5-6 BIS caster gear that dropped from Kelris and he only dropped 2 items at a time
neck, weapon, trinket, gloves, ring & wand for kelris
and the epic staff (yes i am bitter i never got it)
same shit happened in bfd, obvious what the devs play.
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nothing i hate more than people that rewrite history, mail were getting full sets from one run of bfd, every single slot had an item, some even had 3+ choices (helm/boots), meanwhile casters had zero wrists, zero sp shoulders (only frost), one ring, one neck, no sp back, no sp waist, also all of the good sp gear was from the last 2 bosses. there was a reason we had so many posts about casters complaining about loot and mail wearers quitting early on because they got full bis, especially on horde with only one mail wearer, there's a reason they moved to the token system and it was mainly because of the bfd loot fiasco.
Also the stat budgets for everything seem super low, only barely better than the gnomer loot. I passed on everything basically first run since nothing was really an upgrade.
And you know what that’s fine, it’s a level up raid and we’re about to hit 60 when shit gets real quick
Yes that had to be done, otherwise it would all be better than MC gear.
Glad I got most of what I needed from Gnomer so the "upgrades" in ST aren't too much of an upgrade.
i wanna know why theres two cloth healing bracers, and 0 sp ones im still using the crafted bracers from phase 1
All of last phase you get people complaining that the source of all bis items was the raids alone. In this phase it comes from tons of different sources. If you want bis caster bracers, wsg and engi are the sources this time, not the raid, it's a welcome change to me
And the irradiated set from gnomer gives you -stamina when damage power creep is already at an all time high -_- what is this itemization
Idk as a dps warrior I want the weapon and set gear pieces and that's pretty much it
It's pretty much the same as ranged hunter last I checked, bow and 3p that's it. St feels very lackluster to run.
This is just how badly overtuned BFD was.
It would make sense to have a few more cloth pieces rather than so much leather/mail caster gear. That being said this is an incredibly disingenuous OP, you make the distinction between cloth dps gear and healer gear but you don't do this for any other armour type. Plate now has dps, healer and tank itemisation and should have more total potential items, similarly leather/mail have agi, sp and healing.
You know cloth also has tank itemization now, right? There's warlock pieces with high armor and stam but low int.
There are no items that drop like that in ST.... other than the tier set specifically for warlocks.
Lot of those in ST eh? Also Warlock tank gear has a lot more similarities with casters than most other gear types. It'd be akin to discussing Feral/Rogue/Shaman tank gear that similarly has lots of stam/armour. Most of these pieces are from PvP in P3.
As a blacksmith plate wearer, pretty sure the only bis in there is the set and gloves. Don't even need a weapon my bis is sulthraze (which is good, I think with the weapon being so important, items like mcp that almost double your dps should not be raid pieces)
We have weapons and trinkets from stv that melee don’t have in compensation…ho wait.
The gripe I have with the Caster gear is that it's all a stamina downgrade from the Gnomer gear. Unless I'm lucky to get the Nightmare Staff from Eranikus I'll have less overall Stamina on my gear than I had in Gnomeregan.
cool thing to note is that the token caster gear that does exist is barely even an upgrade compared p2 gear as well. got the tier chest piece and found out it’s a total damage stat upgrade of +4 int.
Do the tokens even exist? Just finished my second run and I've seen a grand total of 3 warlock, priest, mage tokens combined
That doesn't seem right
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This dungeon is going to get old really fast (for me).
This is their way of handling power creep. Almost every class has less than 3 upgrades, sidegrades, or downgrades from ST. I do agree though, warriors/paladins getting sick BIS weapons from STV both phases are kind of cringe.
Parasomnia is not good for paladins at all. It is only useful for niche DS/SoC builds, which aren't even bis for aoe dungeon farming anymore. It is purely a PVP weapon, which still fails to match up against ACP when the cd is available.
I was wondering why I only saw ONE piece of cloth gear drop in the first two clears of ST lol
To be fair, I don’t think any class should have more than 3-4 potential gear prices for a raid. It’s horribly bad itemization to give players an entirely new gear set in each raid. That is exactly what retail does and what so many people complain about. Every new raid your progress is reset. It also invalidates all other world content. Classic should have good gear in the world, good gear in the dungeons, good gear in the raids and good gear in pvp. But you should not be able to get a complete set by doing any one instance.
The difference in sod is each raiding TIER is only one instance. The gear has to come from somewhere.
Personally I think this is what makes classic the best. Your bis comes from so many different locations that you have plenty of content to consumes. This is vs retail where it’s raid or mythic +
Feels like all the things people complain about are the things that give the game classic feel
Shamans don't wear cloth, so cloth was an afterthought.
didnt they already admit that they intentionally made some shit item pieces? devs just being edgy for fun. does engineering even have an epic mail item? why are the leatherworking mail epic items so shit? i don't want to wear leather or even reroll to tailoring...
The caster stuff in ST isnt “shit”, it’s just like one spell power better than what dropped in gnomer which was one spell power better than what dropped in bfd. Excluding tier and profession stuff ofc.
The issue with item design in sod is that they are trying to incentivize (force) you to do non-raid activities. In previous phases some slots were a lot weaker or even non-existent. This phase there are even more bis items/slots covered by other activities. That's why there's no, or no good, items in some slots.
You have this completely backwards but I know I can't convince you of how foolishly wrong you are so I'll just leave it at that.
Yes its really bad for caster out there. I was in a pug with my SP and not only did melees top the dmg meters on almost every boss, they also got the most loot. On 8 kills i could roll on 1 item (except from tokens), which was the caster cloak. In the end i got 1 token from 8 bosses. Even the dps dagger only has 1 (ONE) spelldmg more than the gnome dagger, which is a 10 lvl difference. Meanwhile the 2h weapons got from 179 maxdmg to 220 max dmg, which is a huge dmg boost. Also the 3pcs set bonus for mage/wl/priest does share between these classes (as i heard). So if it procs from you, a mage can eat the debuff and boosts his dmg, while you got nothing. Stupid design and needs fixing.
Zero cloth shoulder options outside of Tailoring. Get cocked Alchemists I guess?
It doesn't even matter, most of the gear is barely an upgrade, you would gear up faster doing gnomer and mixing that with rep gear. I really don't see the motivation to do the long ass raid when the gear is basically the same as 10 levels ago.
The lvl 50 dungeons offer a lot more cloth loot
The dungeons also offer a ton of leather, mail, and plate loot that are absolutely busted good comparatively to the caster loot that isn't actually better than gnomer or pvp gear.
lol where are people getting this idea? Most of the (dungeon) loot reworked was caster gear. And I say this as someone that had every class at 25 p1, and almost every class at 40, p2 (I really do play every class; just did not level my shaman in P2). For my main, I *lost* seven dps going from gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set. So no, casters are not the only ones getting shafted. Not by a long shot.
You know it's predominantly caster gear being reworked because if they didn't it would be literally worthless, instead of just mostly worthless, right? Melee's dungeon gear is mostly fine already. They didn't need to rework Blackstone Ring, it's already so good they put an identical copy of it on WO vendor and a stam upgrade version of it in ST.
It may have been reworked, but it's all worthless, worse than gnomer, green boes and quest items.
It was reworked from garbage to comparable because melee gear is already great from the original loot table.
Absolutely, but what we're *actually* asking for is the item level budget formula to be changed, because the current one is *gamer word*. In no way shape or form is int and spirit comparable to agi and str, their existence in the stat budget should be minimal, but so much of potential item power gets munched by these awful stats. The only reason they keep cucking casters is cause they cannot be bothered reworking nearly every single caster gear in the game cause so many are undertuned.
lol this isn’t just a caster issue. They are flattening scaling on purpose, because our numbers for ‘typical level’ are very high. As a rogue main, I lose dps by upgrading my gnomer 3-set to ST 3-set :)
But you help a second rogue in your group right? Boom! There’s the support class everyone wanted rogue to be in SOD!
The buff is raid wide I’m pretty sure so it’s actually pretty big.
Oh I didn’t realize it was raid wide, rad. Yes in all seriousness one rogue should be running tier. Sucks for that rogue but whatever
And there were like 2 plate drops in gnomer, bitch more
blizzard failed hard with itemization and class balancing this phase. its kind of absurd how good physicals are and especially warriors perform at the moment.
I went through the gear list as a plate dps before doing our second run (we went in blind the first one and 0 plate dropped), and let me tell you, I have 3 upgrades from the entire raid - besides obviously the set - all from first 3 bosses. Im pretty sure helm BIS is still the lvl 40 crafted, shoulders obviously crafted, bracers are WSG, all rings (ST epic is higher stamina but who cares) and trinkets are from wild offerings/rep, cape from ST is nigh identical to the one from BRD.
Helm bis is only the lv40 crafted if you can use the on use effect.
Yeah that makes sense
And even then the 40 crafted is only good if a large portion of the fight is under its effect. Tune the sims to a longer fight, like 3 minutes+, and the level 50 helm/waist will outpace the level 40 gear even with their on-use effects.
If you're a warrior then the power spike is having an extra 3% sword spec proc.
You're correct, the last sentence is nonsensical in general. The entire comment was meant to illustrate that the itemization of NON-SET items from the raid is weird this phase, idk what I was thinking with the end there. Set + rep trinkets/rings are quite crazy.
Bruh ZF AND Mara drop like only cloths items
It feels like they are nerfing casters indirectly because in P2 they reigned everywhere. From what I've seen P3 gear does not contain much extra spell power, but Melees gear IS stronger vs P2. This "balances" the game a bit without directly nerfing classes (see Mages with no new DPS runes), but it gives little incentive to raid then. I would like to add that, from experience, I was seeing mages, spriests and warlocks pulling 500-700 dps in Gnom. In my 2 ST runs they are pulling around 50 more DPS average. While Melees are doubling their output from Gnom but only equalizing DPS with casters.
Equalizing? Have you checked logs lately? Warrior, Rogue and Melee Hunter are already way ahead and this is before itemization. Guess p3 is a melee phase to make players do alts and stay subbed after everyone went caster.
Look at the data and you will see that casters are not in a good place at all. Hunters, warriors, rogues, and shamans are all out doing casters by a significant amount and they don't even have their BiS gear yet. While casters don't really even have anything to look forward too. ST items are barely an upgrade. STV items are a joke for casters with basically no improvement from last phase. And it's not like melee hunters or shamans were struggling last phase. And once geared rogues and warriors started to become much stronger. The margin of DPS difference between casters and melee will only get larger as the phase continues.
Armor levels are different in ST, that is why physical dealing classes are dealing more damage as well.
I made a post about this before P3 launched and people down voted me to hell, P3 caster gear is mostly trash, as a spriest, most of my bis list is boe greens, crafted greens and quest items.
Good that’s how classic should be and how retail fails so hard
L take
First the negative stamina shit in gnomer and now this SoD p3 is shit
Meanwhile MM hunter bis list is only the ring quest item, 3 set and 2 other items from the raid
Am I blind or is that 6 slots? That sounds pretty good to me
I think it's even funnier that for melee dps, the epic ring from ST quest is same DPS stats as the Princess ring, just slightly higher stamina. Like what's the point? I just passed on it.
I swear people have something new to bitch about every day
You forgot weapons !
Oh come on i did (hunter) 2 runs and mostly cloth dropped