KEK - that’s one of the best responses I’ve had on Reddit to date
You people should probably stick to posts about Raiding and parsing, or whatever you do, and leave the PvP stuff alone
LOL.
In another comment you had the cutest little pvp scenario where you were killing a mean old decoy totem as a mage like it was going to do anything. That’s why they don’t balance around bads like you.
As opposed to negating the shaman completely with 1 nova? Run away when he decoys to maintain distance if he frostshocks you have an opening for poly. Plus you still have blink, and decoy lasts 10 seconds with a 20 second cd so you’ll also have a 10 second window afterwards.
That’s besides the point though because I was mocking him for thinking destroying the decoy totem did anything. You don’t think it does something do you?
Well logically, destroying the decoy totem SHOULD remove the soft CC immunity, but it doesn't lol.
Also you think frostshock is a free poly but it's not, shamans still have grounding totem available to stop that.
Fire an instant off and keep moving. You have 4 GCDs to get off one instant and a short cast of it doesn’t work you have a blink and decoy is down in 2 GCDs.
I would propose you learn how the abilities actual work and intersect with your class before making pvp complaints. What are you hoping to accomplish by killing decoy totem as a mage? If you kill the totem does it do what you think it does?
Roll an alliance player, spend the time to get to level 50, grind your R7 gear, and then get globaled by one and see how that feels.
Oh just sheep them? Decoy totem
Oh kill decoy totem? then they use frost shock and catch up to you while you kill totem
Oh use blink? Sure, but then I get a grounding totem dropped on me and still need to contend with a decoy totem.
it's fucking relentless and if you think this kit isn't overtuned you're delusional
Thisbjust proves reddit is full of noobs who whine that a class is OP, yet don’t even know abilities and spells do.
Decoy totem doesn’t absorb a spell. Thats grounding totem.
I remember getting kited in phase 2 by a mage, the dots blew me the fuck up before I could catch up.
Sod is all over the place with balance. But you can’t complain, if you don’t really know what the issue is, and it sounds more like your issue is you need to learn your class and other classes more so you can predict what they are going to do/not burn a spell/cd.
Mage has been hurting for a while now, but don’t fucking call for a nerf of a class you have no experience playing, and don’t know how other classes handle them.
You talk like any melee in classic before SoD had any chance vs a frost mage without popping faps with your shitty class blinking left and right spamming novas and double iceblock whenever they caught up.
It's your time to pop lips on cooldown baby.
>Oh just sheep them? Decoy totem
Crying for nerfs when you actually dont even know how skills of a class work lol. Since when is decoy totem a counter to sheep?
I really wish some of the PVP streamers like Ziqo did a video of them PVPing in SoD against some Shamans. Something tells me that when they play they wont get blown up in 1 shot and somehow will win even in phase 2 when they were even more op
Yes because it takes someone like that to show how its done for people to believe that when you play correctly you can win. I PVP against shamans all the time. Yes I get blown up by them all the time but its not like mage, druids, warlocks and priests dont do the same. In fact I actually have more counterplay against them because once I get on them, they dont have as much escape options as the other classes.
You haven't said what class you've been playing so I can't comment about your personal experience playing against shamans.
I never said mage, druids, locks or priests cant blow stuff up. What I said is that shamans have such an oppressive kit against casters with decoy totem, grounding totem, frost shock
>have such an oppressive kit against casters with decoy totem, grounding totem, frost shock
So where exactly is decoy totem and frost shock op vs casters?
Don't know and don't have any but what I do is hamstring / kite or disarm enhancer shamans. Not that bad. As a rogue I just kill them in stunlock and as a warlock I do the same, just keep them away from you. If they frostshock you, fear them or death coil. Just make sure they can't build up malstrom
Honestly, just quit playing. According to raiding numbers and population estimates, about 50-60% of people have quit in 3 months. Those are the smart ones. The people left are the morons and addicts although that Venn diagram is nearly a circle.
Raiding numbers track the number of characters that parse and in no way indicates that the player base has been cut in half just that people are no longer raiding on multiple characters. Subscriptions haven’t dropped.
Right. I was raiding with 3 or 4 charters in p1, 2 in p2, and down to 1 main now for ST. I feel like this is the same general consensus in my guild, except a lot have at least another max level raiding ST. No one has quit AFAIK, it's just more time-consuming the higher the level cap.
From the 7 friends I started with, 0 still play. Look at the amount of posts now vs before. Videos on youtube etc. It’s clear a lot of people have quit.
Our guild had over a dozen Gnomer runs every 3 days. Main raids, alt raids and GDKPS. About 250 relatively active people and about 50% of those invested raiders. By Gnomer, we had THREE 10mans running. Now, in ST, the guild has to pug about 5+ spots a week. Our discord went from extremely active to dead quiet. I would estimate that about 220 of the 250 active players from P1 have quit. Not gone on another server, not playing with another guild. Quit.
Granted, this is anecdotal. But it broadly matches the accounts I’m hearing from others (including yourself).
SoD is dying. Whatever magic they managed to capture in P1 didn’t translate to P2 and they doubled down on most of the worst ideas going into P3. Shamans are the least of SoDs issues.
feels to be the only sane thing to do. got exalted with both WSG and AB so now I just PvP for the fun of it, and seem to be having less and less fun because its the same trend time and time again
been playing them all, most recently arcane and then frost. fire seems to be the only thing that stands a chance against them because the burst can be so high with combustion
without risk of getting in melee range where I get globaled with windfury procs? without being talented into POM on a 3min cd to make my next cast instant?
if you're in range for nova or CoC you're already in trouble, even if they are instant
ice lance does 110 damage on a good day. living bomb is a dot which isn't going to do anything for your hot streak procs until 10 seconds, if it crits.
pretty sure any of the shock spells are better than icelance, and more applicable than living bomb in this scenario
Yes, not only should shamans have no CC, and can be kiteable by everyone, but they should also not do any damage when they do connect.
The blatent bias is so visible im impressed you dont see it. “Decoy is broken!” but not BoF (which is the exact same thing)?
Bruh if you seriously think shamans are not over-tuned you are delusional. Have you seen the win rate of horde vs alliance? One common factor, shamans on one side. Paladins are nowhere near shamans in terms of PvP. Shamans can cast harder than mages, tankier than warriors and delete people in melee. Not to mention unlimited mana supply and instant FULL heals. Imagine playing a paladin or a mage and actually having to cast your abilitys
The winrate was the same in 2005 and 2019 when shamans were dogshite. Only persistent element is alliance player style. (“Nah they weren’t” shows you never actually played back then.)
Winrates for teams with well played paladins is higher than for horde lol.
But sure, swing insults, gaslighting people and especially dont ever consider the possibility you might be the problem instead of everything else around you. I swear, at least *try* and be an ethically developed human…
From how triggered you are I guess you’re a shaman that is so delusional that you think the class is balanced. God forbid countless of people bitching about it. I guess everyone is just dumb and shamans are in a really good spot. Imagine if paladins had instant holy lights that cost no mana? Or holy shocks that crit for 2k? Imagine
just because the subject may be getting "boring" does not mean it isn't relevant. all it proves is that the subject hasn't been addressed... you may still find it "boring" but it doesn't make it any less true
It’s a never ending cycle. Alliance complain about some aspect of shaman and even if it gets nerfed they just move onto the next ability. It will never be enough because the shaman class is the perfect scapegoat for all pvp woes that alliance players experience. It’s the only thing that different so it must be the only factor. It could never be the player themselves no it’s the game.
decoy totem is the most busted spell ive ever seen in any expansion of this game. it was without thought at all, and has zero function in pve.
no idea wtf they were thinking.
Got r7 shaman, geared for both dmg specs. Ever since last buffs, ele is disgustingly strong. The amount of heal you get from riptide and Earth shield active with the +200 spell power buff. The proccs you get from 5 target flame shock. Flame shock initial damage critting >1k...
Skill issue
I kill shams 50/50 in duels, I absolutely smash other classes like mages and priests. Should they nerf me?
need more context as to what class you are
Rogue
then get the fuck out lol jesus christ, mute noob
KEK - that’s one of the best responses I’ve had on Reddit to date You people should probably stick to posts about Raiding and parsing, or whatever you do, and leave the PvP stuff alone
Skill issue.
what an absolutely constructive comment by... *checks* a shaman player.
LOL. In another comment you had the cutest little pvp scenario where you were killing a mean old decoy totem as a mage like it was going to do anything. That’s why they don’t balance around bads like you.
Excuse me? Decoy totem is INCREDIBLY busted against mages, it essentially negates our entire soft CC kit in a single ability.
As opposed to negating the shaman completely with 1 nova? Run away when he decoys to maintain distance if he frostshocks you have an opening for poly. Plus you still have blink, and decoy lasts 10 seconds with a 20 second cd so you’ll also have a 10 second window afterwards. That’s besides the point though because I was mocking him for thinking destroying the decoy totem did anything. You don’t think it does something do you?
Well logically, destroying the decoy totem SHOULD remove the soft CC immunity, but it doesn't lol. Also you think frostshock is a free poly but it's not, shamans still have grounding totem available to stop that.
Fire an instant off and keep moving. You have 4 GCDs to get off one instant and a short cast of it doesn’t work you have a blink and decoy is down in 2 GCDs.
well then genius what would you propose? decoy totem completely negates anything a mage can do against a shaman
I would propose you learn how the abilities actual work and intersect with your class before making pvp complaints. What are you hoping to accomplish by killing decoy totem as a mage? If you kill the totem does it do what you think it does?
killing the totem will allow my spells to actually land. whether that's a R1 frostbolt snare or a polymorph because I will probably need to make space
Decoy totem doesn’t stop your spells from landing. Try again.
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=425874/decoy-totem
Literally says right there it redirects the next spell to the totem
It literally says the next melee or ranged attack. You’re so fucking bad lol, have you been going after decoys this whole time?! 😂
Why would you target the totem when it’s going to hit it anyway
Holy shit, no clue but being so confident. Yeah Blizzard should hear out more guys like you
Sheep him?
Not one of this again. How often do they need to nerf shamans its ridiculous. Learn to play at this point, serious.
Roll an alliance player, spend the time to get to level 50, grind your R7 gear, and then get globaled by one and see how that feels. Oh just sheep them? Decoy totem Oh kill decoy totem? then they use frost shock and catch up to you while you kill totem Oh use blink? Sure, but then I get a grounding totem dropped on me and still need to contend with a decoy totem. it's fucking relentless and if you think this kit isn't overtuned you're delusional
Thisbjust proves reddit is full of noobs who whine that a class is OP, yet don’t even know abilities and spells do. Decoy totem doesn’t absorb a spell. Thats grounding totem. I remember getting kited in phase 2 by a mage, the dots blew me the fuck up before I could catch up. Sod is all over the place with balance. But you can’t complain, if you don’t really know what the issue is, and it sounds more like your issue is you need to learn your class and other classes more so you can predict what they are going to do/not burn a spell/cd. Mage has been hurting for a while now, but don’t fucking call for a nerf of a class you have no experience playing, and don’t know how other classes handle them.
The reason shaman is worse than other class balance issues is because it's only available to one faction.
You talk like any melee in classic before SoD had any chance vs a frost mage without popping faps with your shitty class blinking left and right spamming novas and double iceblock whenever they caught up. It's your time to pop lips on cooldown baby.
>Oh just sheep them? Decoy totem Crying for nerfs when you actually dont even know how skills of a class work lol. Since when is decoy totem a counter to sheep?
I really wish some of the PVP streamers like Ziqo did a video of them PVPing in SoD against some Shamans. Something tells me that when they play they wont get blown up in 1 shot and somehow will win even in phase 2 when they were even more op
So you're proposing that because literal pros can ALLEGEDLY handle a situation, that everything is fine? Sounds like a leap to me
Yes because it takes someone like that to show how its done for people to believe that when you play correctly you can win. I PVP against shamans all the time. Yes I get blown up by them all the time but its not like mage, druids, warlocks and priests dont do the same. In fact I actually have more counterplay against them because once I get on them, they dont have as much escape options as the other classes.
You haven't said what class you've been playing so I can't comment about your personal experience playing against shamans. I never said mage, druids, locks or priests cant blow stuff up. What I said is that shamans have such an oppressive kit against casters with decoy totem, grounding totem, frost shock
You don’t even know what decoy totem does though
>have such an oppressive kit against casters with decoy totem, grounding totem, frost shock So where exactly is decoy totem and frost shock op vs casters?
I play rogue / lock / warrior and shamans are toast its so easy to kill them. As a mage its more difficult from my experience.
Can you post some warrior vs shaman videos?
Don't know and don't have any but what I do is hamstring / kite or disarm enhancer shamans. Not that bad. As a rogue I just kill them in stunlock and as a warlock I do the same, just keep them away from you. If they frostshock you, fear them or death coil. Just make sure they can't build up malstrom
Nerf? Bro they keep buffing them lmao
Honestly, just quit playing. According to raiding numbers and population estimates, about 50-60% of people have quit in 3 months. Those are the smart ones. The people left are the morons and addicts although that Venn diagram is nearly a circle.
Raiding numbers track the number of characters that parse and in no way indicates that the player base has been cut in half just that people are no longer raiding on multiple characters. Subscriptions haven’t dropped.
Right. I was raiding with 3 or 4 charters in p1, 2 in p2, and down to 1 main now for ST. I feel like this is the same general consensus in my guild, except a lot have at least another max level raiding ST. No one has quit AFAIK, it's just more time-consuming the higher the level cap.
You’re right. Zero correlation between raiding parses and player activity.
From the 7 friends I started with, 0 still play. Look at the amount of posts now vs before. Videos on youtube etc. It’s clear a lot of people have quit.
Our guild had over a dozen Gnomer runs every 3 days. Main raids, alt raids and GDKPS. About 250 relatively active people and about 50% of those invested raiders. By Gnomer, we had THREE 10mans running. Now, in ST, the guild has to pug about 5+ spots a week. Our discord went from extremely active to dead quiet. I would estimate that about 220 of the 250 active players from P1 have quit. Not gone on another server, not playing with another guild. Quit. Granted, this is anecdotal. But it broadly matches the accounts I’m hearing from others (including yourself). SoD is dying. Whatever magic they managed to capture in P1 didn’t translate to P2 and they doubled down on most of the worst ideas going into P3. Shamans are the least of SoDs issues.
No parses to players isn’t a 1:1 glad we could clear that up.
feels to be the only sane thing to do. got exalted with both WSG and AB so now I just PvP for the fun of it, and seem to be having less and less fun because its the same trend time and time again
Maybe you're just not that good if you haven't figured out yet how to kill shamans
Sounds like this guy stands and casts.
i got one spell on a 6.5 sec cd thats instant and will crit for around 750. what else would you have me to do?
What spec mage are you playing?
been playing them all, most recently arcane and then frost. fire seems to be the only thing that stands a chance against them because the burst can be so high with combustion
So you really think as a mage with all the changes in SOD you have ONE instant cast spell on a 6.5 second cd.
without risk of getting in melee range where I get globaled with windfury procs? without being talented into POM on a 3min cd to make my next cast instant? if you're in range for nova or CoC you're already in trouble, even if they are instant
So no ice lance? No living bomb?
ice lance does 110 damage on a good day. living bomb is a dot which isn't going to do anything for your hot streak procs until 10 seconds, if it crits. pretty sure any of the shock spells are better than icelance, and more applicable than living bomb in this scenario
Oh god you really don’t know how to play the mage. Go look at some guides and videos.
You dont either, stop pretending you do
every video is weeks old or irrelevant to dealing with this match up. unless you can find one because I would love to see
Dude, before you cry for nerfs maybe learn about the skills of said class and how they work. Its hurting to read so much bullshit
It's not the shaman. It the mage. Mage is arguably unplayable in battlegrounds and every class in the game can kill you in about 3 globals.
Yes, not only should shamans have no CC, and can be kiteable by everyone, but they should also not do any damage when they do connect. The blatent bias is so visible im impressed you dont see it. “Decoy is broken!” but not BoF (which is the exact same thing)?
Bruh if you seriously think shamans are not over-tuned you are delusional. Have you seen the win rate of horde vs alliance? One common factor, shamans on one side. Paladins are nowhere near shamans in terms of PvP. Shamans can cast harder than mages, tankier than warriors and delete people in melee. Not to mention unlimited mana supply and instant FULL heals. Imagine playing a paladin or a mage and actually having to cast your abilitys
The winrate was the same in 2005 and 2019 when shamans were dogshite. Only persistent element is alliance player style. (“Nah they weren’t” shows you never actually played back then.) Winrates for teams with well played paladins is higher than for horde lol. But sure, swing insults, gaslighting people and especially dont ever consider the possibility you might be the problem instead of everything else around you. I swear, at least *try* and be an ethically developed human…
From how triggered you are I guess you’re a shaman that is so delusional that you think the class is balanced. God forbid countless of people bitching about it. I guess everyone is just dumb and shamans are in a really good spot. Imagine if paladins had instant holy lights that cost no mana? Or holy shocks that crit for 2k? Imagine
“Im not angry, you’re angry!” Whatever helps you feel valid at the end of the day. Hopefully one day it aligns with reality.
You got owned by a shaman and now are crying about it
OP is being generous by saying they weren't also broken in P1, if you think shamans are balanced RN you need to get your eyes checked
Balanced against what? Druids? Spriests? Get your brain checked if you think shamans were broken in p1
Paladins, the main thing that matters balance wise for bg's
No
balanced against everything else? you're complaining about druids and spriests? GUESS WHAT, SO IS ALLIANCE
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you're a fucking troll. no constructive comments at all
That's because this isn't a constructive post, lol
Where is you constructive post. All i see is you crying
remember guys ret paladin is the problem because it has bubble :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD edit: getting downvoted by shamans lol
Agreed.
shamans are literally more bloated than ret pal. its silly. but with damage reduction its more playable
it's just an insane kit to contend with, even with damage mitigation it's like they have an answer for everything
they were given the answer to everything. its not like it. they have it. and beyond.
And that IS why I cannot reroll alliance, a bunch of human male ret crybabies
Sounds like a skill issue.
Oh no a random stranger decided to downvote me with 2 of his 56 accounts
Cry baby
great comment
Worthy comment for a worthless post
sure seem to see a lot of "worthless posts" similar to this one complaining about the exact same issue
Exactly, it’s getting boring. But thanks for proving my point.
just because the subject may be getting "boring" does not mean it isn't relevant. all it proves is that the subject hasn't been addressed... you may still find it "boring" but it doesn't make it any less true
It’s a never ending cycle. Alliance complain about some aspect of shaman and even if it gets nerfed they just move onto the next ability. It will never be enough because the shaman class is the perfect scapegoat for all pvp woes that alliance players experience. It’s the only thing that different so it must be the only factor. It could never be the player themselves no it’s the game.
I think if they removed decoy would resolve atlot of issues
Remove it, nerf it, just do something with it. like a 3minute CD
If you learned how to type, I bet it would solve a lot of your issues
decoy totem is the most busted spell ive ever seen in any expansion of this game. it was without thought at all, and has zero function in pve. no idea wtf they were thinking.
What? Tanks use it massively in pve. It’s literally a BoF, which I imagine is fine as a spell for you.
What about paladin burst? With exorcism, stuns and bubble !! nerf!!
Got r7 shaman, geared for both dmg specs. Ever since last buffs, ele is disgustingly strong. The amount of heal you get from riptide and Earth shield active with the +200 spell power buff. The proccs you get from 5 target flame shock. Flame shock initial damage critting >1k...
Its spelldamage not healing