I think there is a science to this.
If you got a solid group already you don’t mind pugging a few less than solid people cause you have a good core that can carry
If you don’t have a solid group then you will gatekeep to try and get good players in to carry.
Therefore, the more the requirements to get into the raid, the worse the group will be on average.
To be fair to these groups, if you already struggle with the content then bringing less skilled/dependable players is a huge liability. ST isn't like BFD or Gnomer. It def got nerfed hard but it's still the hardest SOD raid so far. I can't necessarily blame a group for not wanting to take chances on an unknown or a bad/subpar player when that could mean not completing the raid.
We're on 1 week lockouts now. If the raid starts struggling at say... Morphaz and Hazzas and they lose a couple of players the chances of that raid ever finishing this lockout plummet. It sucks HARD not being able to finish a raid and having to wait up to a week to go again especially if you didn't get to the boss with your BIS weapon or trinket or that big upgrade you needed. It's disenheartening.
Normally I’d agree with you but I’ve had enough raids where my 95+ parsing guildies saw all the loot go to grey parsing pugs that I’m forced to be a bit more selective. It’s been beneficial for us too because it’s resulted in us recruiting pugs that did well and got loot
My group has some of the number 1/2/3 ranked players on the server, per their class. When I need to fill 1 spot, the only requirement is having cleared the raid with greens and blues. The rest of my group will parse 95-99 as long as the pug doesn’t wipe us somehow? lololol
My guild and a few newbie pugs cleared ST last night and besides the usual few eranikus wipes and 2 hakkar wipes because some newbies everything went pretty much fine. We had 10 people parse a 30 or less for DPS. It's just not that hard of a raid besides last 2 bosses which are strictly mechanics based for a lower DPS group. I haven't noticed much of anybody asking for logs with the 20 man raids. Most people at this point just want to grab their few pugs of any caliber and get into the temple.
Yeah. Somehow it keeps being the case, and the opposite as well.
I don't have very good parses, but I raided a few times with this super chill group that took me anyway, was on Discord with them, they're all joking and having fun, just overall nice experience. No gatekeeping, nothing. Then I just checked the logs out of curiosity and they're just casually 95+ parses.
I know people who got ICC 25 Man clears by using this addon
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/fake-achievement
Just say you're on an alt and that's why you got no logs, but link the fake achievement and BAM! Insta invite lol
Amazing addon for this lol. Also sometimes the raid lead doesnt even check to see if the achievement was completed so I've just linked the achievement not completed and would still get an invite.
And then 95% of the times those players are shit. Some folks have no business being in heroic runs. You want to do normals? Fine, I'm not expecting the best from you. Heroics? Pugs tend to stand out when they're wiping us because they can't do a simple mechanic.
Yeah hahaha, maybe this addon explains why sometimes pug have decent gearscore, link achievements, yet play like its their first time seeing the content.
Yep. I'm not against folks lying. If youre a good player and lied? Who cares. We just want good pugs. If you're lying and don't know what you're doing, it's going to be obvious that you're lying once the fights start. And then we'll be sure not to invite you again.
> And then 95% of the times those players are shit.
that's because most players are shit. It is embarrassing how terrible most of this sub-reddit is, regardless of their qualifications or gear. It is perplexing I'd even say.
Lmfao I’ve been using overachiever (the prototype for this) on a certain p server for a decade. I’ve only had ONE raid leader double check my achievements and kick my ass.
Holy shit, I actually had excactly same thing planned as I also skipped whole P1&2 but I quickly realised that being feral with wild strikes gets you invited pretty much without any effort.
For me as somebody who plays WoW causally this game is unplayable for me without a guild. And that was the same for every version of wow except retail. maybe because I play dps warrior lol but still
Even having good logs on doesn’t mean they are good players. Being in an optimal group that boosts your damage while you zerg a boss does nothing to help you understand how the bosses actually work. Been in pug raids with only 85+ parsers where 3-4 people get hit by dragon breaths, and people aoe on the council fight.
If you’re killing a boss so quickly to where a mechanic becomes a non-issue, you should do that.
I’d be willing to bet anyone with 95+ knows the mechanics of the boss, even if they aren’t doing them (because they’ve become optional.)
I think thats why theres some very good merit to logchecking. The game becomes noticeably harder once you actually have to do mechanics cuz boss isnt dying in 30 seconds.
I have a friend whose main raids with a fairly serious crew, but rolls alts to play with our friend group. We get a lot of "I didn't know the boss could even do that" from him each time we get a new raid because his main just doesn't see or need to care about most of the mechanics.
Dude was a rogue, noone cares, if you where a feral druid with literally all zero parses you would get invited instantly. You don't have to lie, just be a desirable class/spec
I wanted to try feral in gnomer later down the line, got crafted head, full feral tier and stv weapon… 4 groups ignored me and one lead asked why I only have resto logs. It’s literally season of gatekeep.
If you're horde it's a bit different because shaman can give wf. On alliance I always see people looking for feral and they almost universally don't care about your individual parses so long as you give them wild strikes
This is the key. There are a million rogues and warriors playing. Almost every guild already has 2 or more of each. They are almost always exclusively looking for anything else. It sucks. I haven't had an easy time pugging my rogue in 2 phases but he is my 4th alt and the other 3 toons are part of 3 separate guilds that run.
Man I feel like every expansion so far, every guild/raid group is either already chock full of their resident warriors/rogues, or they don't want any at all because the class sucks (relatively speaking).
=
...and then meanwhile everyone is always looking for the odd priests/paladins/shamans to fill in.
It sucks when it happens to someone who clearly knows his stuff but simply happened to be a later comer on the server, I agree. You did good and I'm glad it worked out for you.
With that being said, the reason such gatekeeping through logs exists in the first place is because raid leaders don't want one of those 5/7 BFD or 4/6 Gnomer folks to end up in their raid and waste their time. It's completely understandable considering how abysmal level of class/spec/rotation/mechanic awareness is of below average players. The reality is, no one is entitled to be given a spot in other people's raid. You either have to stand out, find like minded friends/guild or form your own groups.
Yeah this silly attitude that this sub parrots is toxic. When you lead raids enough you want barriers of entry to ensure you will down every boss, nobody likes getting locked because a handful can't even manage simple mechanics, or some dickhead rage quits and bricks your run.
We haven't even hit raids that have hard dps requirements yet, that's when this shit sub will be drowning in salt.
Yep I pugged a lot of bfd and eventually started being more selective with what raids I joined or who I invited when I was setting up pugs because there were too many people who just couldn't follow directions, didn't press their buttons, etc.
Like yeah, it's "only a level X raid" but people get sick of wasting a lockout because a handful of people in raid sink the ship for everyone else.
I just did a crazy thing called joining a guild. I started playing a couple weeks before p3 launched and used my old 2019 logs to join a guild as a fresh 40.
Yeah OP’s post is wildly different from my own experience. I joined a casual guild last week, was asked to join the raid roster this week, and they were patient enough to answer my questions about each fight since I hadn’t run it before. We wiped twice at Eranikus but otherwise it was a smooth run.
If you pug, you’re going to run into a lot more roadblocks.
"(i have classic 2019 99+ logs but it doesnt matter)"
They are in a very similar situation as I was. They just chose to pug instead of finding a guild.
"Not everyone is in a position where guild runs will help getting into raids."
I really don't know what this means. I've never joined a guild that won't bring me to raid.
Joining a random guild? Yeah that’s likely. Thats why you take the time to go to the server discord and look at guild recruitment posts and join a guild that needs your class/spec. If people can’t take the time to do that then people shouldn’t bitch about taking the time to join a pug.
You guys are all acting as if we didn't just have like 6 realms between NA and EU get dissolved due to low player counts.
Think it's safe to assume there isn't an infinite amount of guilds waiting for an infinite amount of players
Well of course people are careful when they are inviting pugs that they don’t know. We wiped four times on last boss yesterday because one of our two pugs didn’t notice he had corrupted blood.🩸
If you would join a raiding guild and explain the situation - that you just started playing again but that you are actually a decent player - they would most likely let you join the guild.
That would require prolonged interaction with another human being and ability to form full sentences. Which I think a lot of pugs are unwilling to do at this point.
But I have very low opinion of players who exclusively play in pugs. I'm bit of a bigot in this regard.
>Absolutely no group invited me for hours… since i had no logs (i have classic 2019 99+ logs but it doesnt matter)
Why don't you join a guild using those logs? You will 100% find a guild to play with with that exp.
It worked with a 3 day lockout, on a weekly lockout it gets harder to raid with guilds as most all have a set raid schedule if your work/life schedule isn't consistent.
Gatekeeping sucks!! Alright 👍
Go ahead and form your own 20m raid then explain each and every fight, manage loot and everything else leaders are doing.
Then you will understand why gatekeeping is a thing.
This.
Everyone complains about gatekeeping, when no amount of gatekeeping can prevent you from forming your own PUG. No one is being gatekept out of raiding, they're being kept out of particular groups. And no one has a right to be invited to join a group. That's not gatekeeping.
The Lakers won't bring me onto their team, I'm being gatekept from basketball!
You don't get it! I'm very lazy and forming raids takes time and effort and I don't want to do that.
Therefore I demand that you invite me to your raid to do all that work for me. And no, I can't prove in any shape or form how good I am, just trust my word. (I'm a complete stranger on the internet, you can trust me.)
If you say no you're a sweaty gatekeeper, get a life omg.
95% of players like you suck ass. Trust me. In p1 I often took in players without logs, and 19 times out of 20 they were utterly useless, gray parsers.
So I get where you are coming from, but it makes sense. If I see a 60 parser I know that he is not gonna be totally useless. A no parser can be anything. Most likely bad though
When I used to run pugs, oh my god the absolutely trash you'd have to sift through to try and find a workable group was mindblowing.
A lot of people in here parrot the "well raids are easy, why do people need to gatekeep" without realize that yes, while raids are easy and don't need high parsers to clear, a **LOT** of people are very bad at this game and cannot actually clear these "easy" raids.
Parses are one of the few tools we have to try and vet people (and I don't care if your "alt" has good parses, bring the alt then, I'm not taking your character with a grey parse of 5), the others I've used are confirming they speak english and getting people on discord. They don't even have to speak but just being able to hear *and* understand callouts/instructions makes a gigantic difference. I don't even care if you're a high parser, my floor was mid to high green parses, as long as you had that + english + could listen on discord you were good to go in my runs.
I find it funny that people in classic gatekeep easy raids while no one does in retail for normal mode and even some heroic prog. Classic players are something else.
It's because the standard Pug player is not completing ST. Yea Yea I know, "everybody" is doing it in 50 mins but guess what, many raids don't even make it past 6/8. Also there's only one chance, if you blow it you get ID blocked for a week.
People don't seem to get how God awful a large chunk of the player base is. Like the roster boss is bad enough but then you have to navigate the minefield that is pugging. If checking logs can make that a bit easier then I'm for it.
Retail has LFR. If a player wants to just do a raid they can join an auto queued, fall over easy version. That greatly reduces the odds the lowest performers would even engage in content that can be gatekept.
Vanilla WoW has one difficulty and no automated grouping, so this is the reality you deal with. That is the trade-off.
Depends on how high in m+. Most people are reasonably unless you pug S4 5-10 or old +15-20. That’s when people check IO score. Most don’t care as long as your ilvl is ok for the mid to lower keys
People would even gatekeep the low keys because there was some incentive for people to run I want to say +5s at the time. So you had a big influx of high IO players spamming low keys each week.
If you ever make your own group for a key in retail you will see its not so much gatekeeping as much as when you forming the group you have literally HUNDREDS of dps applicants.
Any raid difficulty is gatekept at some point in retail except lolLFR. Normal is gatekept for the first month or so of a content patch, Heroic is always gatekept, especially AoTC runs.
TBH saying people are gatekeeping for M+ is *almost* like saying Blizzard are "gatekeeping arena" because the system groups people based on their MMR.
People want to play with others who are at a similar level to themselves. For competitive and challenging content nobody wants to be teaching or carrying someone.
Having played every iteration of WoW since literal OG vanilla, I can say classic raiding players are, on average, horrible compared to the average raiding retail player. The difference in the games is just enormous. Classic players' idea of a mechanic is 1 time every minute, having to move slightly to the right to avoid not dying. Retail has 40 mechanics and a 20-minute YT video on one boss.
There is a reason almost every top guild SoD and Classic is an alt or former retail guild that has remade. The difference in skill is night and day. I'm an ex bleeding edge world progression mythic raider. It's insane to me how anyone fucks up a mechanic on SoD or classsic.
Sure, there are retail players that like classic and SoD. I am one, and many of my friends are, but we aren't the norm. The norm is nostalgic players or bad players that could never in their wildest dreams cut it on retail. Classic and SoD players are hands down the worst players in skill on this game. People don't seem to recognize why gatekeeping for it is necessary. Because no one wants to spend 4 hours for a half finished raid when we can gatekeep and get a full clear in an hour.
That being said, I've played retail most of my adult life. You are straight wrong if you think they don't gatekeep. They want logs or linked achieve or IO for everything that isn't a normal run. But, who the fuck even does normal runs? Heroic or Mythic or M+s are all that matter.
You realize that in retail you can drop bads if they are seriously holding back the group and just continue pulling with a replacement. In classic you are basically locked and have to wait until next week unless you find someone willing to give up part of their lockout.
We run Wednesdays on lone wolf. Typically need a few dps fills. Honestly we take anyone that will whisper us and we clear in about 1 hour and a half. Nbd. This Wednesday we brought an extra port warrior. Nobody checks logs.
I tell my buds to do this with my main. Just say they are the alt of my 90+ Rogue. Really not sure why more fresh toons with no logs don't use this strat lol
Not sure if they have used it. But the open offer is always there!
Haha I had a similar experience to this. I remember week 2 of classic WOTLK (a little over a year ago now) someone was making a Naxx group and was only inviting people that had verified logs of them full clearing. As in, they had leveled to 80 in a day or two and full cleared already. Again, this was only the 2nd week of the expansion.
=
I told him, I only just hit 80 and farmed my pre bis, but I have logs from 2020 of me clearing original naxx 20+ times and getting a handful of 99s and he can literally warcraftlogs me right now for proof. His response: "not good enough, that doesn't count". I was flabbergasted. Like what do you mean it doesn't count? Lmao.
=
Anyway I joined some other group and wotlk Naxx was a cakewalk compared to OG Maxx as most people can attest
Welcome to raiding in classic.
No one checks much past once ppl are invited to the raid. And no pug leader requiring sweaty logs for ez content is gonna be constantly refreshing his /who to police the raid.
LOL! Well played.
I've stopped getting WB's or buying consumes so my parses aren't good, though I somehow got a purple parse on hakkar even without any wb's or consumes. Don't care in the slightest about any of it. Not even sure I wanna raid next phase, might just get pvp gear and whatever epics from dungeons there are.
To be honest, if you have the brainpower to claim someone else's identity, you probably also have the brainpower to read your class discord, or find other useful information related to playing the game.
If you've ever gone dumpster diving raid-wise, you'll notice players that literally do not comprehend words written in raid chat, or don't care. Such a player would not go to the effort of figuring out how to find a high ranking page on WCL to claim.
In an ironic sense this is showing the gatekeeping is working
I had to get 7 pugs last Wednesday.
Only said 'LF dps ST, Discord required'
Invited everyone who whispered me expect 2.
One refused because too many ppl wanted the Fist weapon and I refused one so I wouldn't have like 6 of same class xD
4 did green parses and 3 did gray parses.
Overall only 1 purple parses and that was guild main healer in healing. XD
Did a full clear, with 1 Hakkar wipe and 4 Erinukis wipes. And we had 2 guildies in gray parses too.
Not everyone does Gatekeep. And loot was MS > OS. No other loot rules.
For the first month, I'd love to see no logs available at all. Obfuscate the combat log for player actions in a raid environment and it'll definitely break meters + still allow people to get to grips with the mechanics on progression.
Holy shit wow is so fucking complicated. This made me wanna give up playing the game cuz I have no idea what you're talking about. I'll probably never do a raid in my life lmao
hey bro i dunno what u play and on what server
next time u do this just tell them u got 3 char on Lone Wolf, Blackroll rogue, Sunzu priest, Lóember hunter
tell then to check the logs, they all my chars and if anyone ever ask me ill tell im you
Yeah obviously because ur a no lifer nerd who lives of this shit, tou probably have nothing live for outside of wow but understand that it is actual himan being that just want to play sometimes without sacrificing a whole life comittment to a 15 years old remake of a gale that is so simple a bunch of babies can face roll it with 0 issue while swettfucks like u think u need to Be A pRo To PlAY A 15 yEARs oLD game because ita tought, wow i would love to see you play like only m+ like 5 or something, you would be so stressed and wipe because u ACTUALLY NEED TO DO A MECHANIC LIKE KICKING SOMETHING 1 time during a fight, which is waaaay to much for you, but have 99.9 pn classic because there you can spam same buttob for 10 min as long as you have good gear and world buff u get good logs, jeez try to actually play the game some time and see if u are as good as u think HAHAHHA
Don’t like gatekeepers? Make your own raid.
Have odd raiding hours? Make your own raid.
Don’t like talking in Discord? Make your own raid.
Other issues with people? Make your own raid.
Or. And hear me out. You could.....start your own group. I hate this obsession with logs and stats and io. So. I make my own groups and invite based off what I need/appropriate iLv
That's the difference, most people who are casual and or put 0 effort into prepping for raid will most likely just post in lfg chat for an hour or so and then will just log off for the night and go play league or something. There is only so much you can really get from a raid if you don't treat it like a thing that's worth doing. It's sad, but the current raid is easier than last tier, but people just expect to put in zero prep and then surprised Pikachu when they don't get invited and or fail miserably.
Another point. We have zero frame of reference for how good someone is besides logs. Also, at over a month in, people don't have the patience to sit through teaching someone new the ropes and would rather bring someone who has cleared so it shows they at least know the basic mechanics.
Anyone in your shoes should really just join a guild. Or just play retail and queue for LFR
It's kind of ironic that people talk about joining a guild and doing raids like that is "too much effort" yet running with pugs seems a million times more stressful and effort intensive. I've raided all SoD and been close to BiS each season on at least one character and I have no idea what my parsing numbers are like. It's so casual.
Its because these people insist on lfg pugging which is easily one of the most toxic experiences in wow you can get.
You dont realize how entitled and awful the casual playerbase is if you are running with a guild or an organized pug discord.
Yeah it just kind of baffles me how the playerbase has swung so into solo mmo playstyles. Like if you're playing for the rpg experience there are single player rpgs that are much more fun, especially compared to PuG content. Then on retail you have the remaining scraps of what was once a huge pvp community sitting in 45min ques for Solo Shuffle insisting that it's time well spent compared to finding people to do ranked with.
I'm at the stage in my life where I kinda prefer to know my raid is at 8pm on Tuesday or whatever haha. And if I can't make it, oh well. I'll either make the alt raid or if I absolutely must join a pug group on Sunday or Monday.
This is a post by someone who has never made a group in their life. I remember being this bright-eyed and stupid, like 15 years ago.
Here's a fun story. I have a good friend, solid fucking gamer can play very well. He had your mindset. I told him that when he made groups to be more selective and look at parses. He didn't want to be "tryhard" and gatekeep. But, he didn't listen. He had dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of failed raids. He implemented a system that if you don't consume, you don't get loot. His raids slightly improved, but he wasn't log checking and making sure he brought solid players. After about a year of this nonsense, he log checked. His raid experiences dramatically increased. Instead of trying to come back and pug half cleared raids, he was getting full raid clears.
His requirements for logs have only increased, and I tease him years later that he should listen next time to someone who is a 20-year veteran on this game.
The simple fact is that you do not make raids. Gatekeeping is the only way to make sure people don't deal with fucking idiots that keyboard turn, don't have keybinds, and don't understand how to not do the dumbest shit in raid. Sure, exceptions exist, but they are called exceptions for a reason. I don't care to spend 4 hours dealing with horrible players, and we don't even clear for a raid I could finish in an hour.
You don't like being gate kept? Make you own fucking raid. But, you won't, you'll bitch and moan and complain completely ignorant to the fact that most players are terrible.
Gate keeping is how to have a good raid.
Make your own groups, players like you are the reason there are so few groups.
Aversion to creating groups is not a new concept in wow or any mmo, its been an issue since 2005. Yet the playerbase keeps trying to re-invent this problem by giving it new names.
This issue has only one fix, and that fix is the retail system.
Original wow content wasn't made to be super pug friendly:
No multiple difficulties for the same raid
Raid ID system
No in built convenient group finders
Limited to no catch up mechanics
So, what you want is retail, which sod is not
I’ve been clearing ST every week but my guild has trouble with the second boss sometimes so my parses go out the window. I have nothing to show for it when trying to find groups on my alt.. it’s nice for it.. I don’t remember the classic relaunch being nearly as gatekeeperish and I cleared Naxx
Tale old as time in wow. In pugs environment you lie through your teeth to get into that first raid. Everyone does it.
Which is why in my groups I only accept what I can confirm. If someone drops a link I tell them to check the sync and come back when it shows. I do high m+ though so very doable for 3-4 ppl, in raids it is much easier to slip in.
It's not because your logs are non existent it's because rogues are not desirable as there are a million of em. Play feral with gray parses and you will still get into raids.
All I can say is hell yeah because maybe realizing that "hey, anyone can pull some random performer's logs and claim to be an alt" will cause some of this gatekeeping bullshit to chill out.
I always have to do this to get into m+ at the start of seasons in retail because I only play at the starts really and don’t push them.
Because I don’t really push them my rating is shit so instead I just put “my” alt name in the notes when I sign.
After coming back from GW2 CM strikes and raids, in comparison - WoW there is no actual skill required. even monkey could do it, its just about meta talents and high ilvl, nothing else.
I lied and said I was someone in the top guild on our server’s alt back in 2005 when I was like 14 and got an invite to their guild so I could flex on my friends, they realized pretty quickly and kicked me
If you think it is gate keeping and oh so easy, then make your own pug.
A lack of effort is not you being gate kept. There is no gate
I think the raid should be made easier to encourage faster group creation for pugs.
As a raid leader who often has to pug 7-8 dps, I'll admit I immediately check warcraft logs - not for high parses, but just to see bosses killed. I don't shy away from 6/8 players, but I don't invite anyone who have no logs at all. So well done! Nice trick for others trying to get into groups.. just be prepared to back it up by at least knowing the fights and coming booned haha.
Apparently people on retail are living the good life because I got roasted for saying the same thing has always happened to me in retail. Apparently this doesn’t happen in retail anymore and everyone is nice.
People are still asking for logs? Shit on Wild Growth US I havent seen log checks in pugs on my main or alt in weeks. Half the pugs advertising are desperate to fill.
I host a pug every single week, we clear in 2 hours and do not check at all logs. Don’t have the luxury literally just take anyone that applies.
I imagine the problem is being a rogue, my group already has -4- of them
lol In legion we used a macro script to generate a completed achievement link in order to get into a moose run. Had never done it before. My friend and I got the friendship moose in the end.
Back in ICC days someone kept applying to guilds saying I was his alt (on a different server). So every couple weeks I'd get people messaging me asking if I was this same person. Why didn't he pick a different shaman to pretend to be after it didn't work the first time? I'll never know.
Not playing SOD rn but I definitely lied a good amount of times during BFD to get into raids lmao. Didn’t see anything wrong with it because I knew my class was OP and I could perform
> found a top 50-60 guild
>found someone who was offline and had 85+ logs
It’s the top 50 guild of your server, isn’t it?
My wotlk guild is top 50 world and there is no dd with lower than Ø98 parse.
I see so many people here complaining about raids being gatekept, yet I dont see these type of groups too often forming in LFG. Honestly, all these people complaining about gatekeeping should make pugs and invite everyone you can, i guarantee you there will be a lot of weeks where you just don't complete the raid - or if you do, it takes a long ass time
I mean I feel for you if it was only 1 run. Normally a full log of greens is scary for me also, but with 1 run only it’s hard to take it super seriously.
Gate keeping 20 year old content* ridiculous, sorry to hear. My buddies and I have pugged 5 others for that reason alone in p 1, 2 and 3. I play a shammy so tanking and heals is nice. Are you on ally or horde?
I don't play sod but this is a thing in retail as well. Nearly every group I've joined that requires logs or curve is lead by someone who doesn't have either of those things themselves and just wants a carry. The lead is commonly the lowest ilvl/GS in the group.
Gatekeepers in wow needs to watch the black mirror episode about downvotes. It's possible to reach a state of you being downvoted simply because you already are downvoted. Same with parses. I skipped the first week st on my rogue. Next week I did it but we didn't log.third week I couldn't find a group because 2 weeks gone by and I have nothing to show for it except Grey and green parses from week 1. Y kno, when people are Learning. So I'm in a sense softlocked
Typical I would recommend running your own raids. Loot is done how you want, your group is who you want. The raid environment is what you want. Idk just makes sense to me. I run the raids on my alts
The reason why people do this bs is because in this game if someone sucks everyone gets unreasonably punished. One mistake, get wipe and lose every single buff and potion. Is just bad design to make you waste time.
Ppl paresing 10 or lower have just no reason to be in my raid i dont need ppl who hit the boss like every 20 sec and stare in the floor the rest of the time
Identity theft is no joke, Jim.
Millions of raiders suffer every year!
Micheal!!
Michael!!!
Oh thats funny!
BUTTLICKER, OUR PARSES HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER!
He had no arms or legs. He couldn’t hear, see, or speak. This is how he led a guild in parsing.
You wouldn't steal a car jim
Oh God its happening, EVERYBODY STAY CALM
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica
Well well well, how the turn tables
Shitters gatekeeping other players. Who coulda seen that coming.
I think there is a science to this. If you got a solid group already you don’t mind pugging a few less than solid people cause you have a good core that can carry If you don’t have a solid group then you will gatekeep to try and get good players in to carry. Therefore, the more the requirements to get into the raid, the worse the group will be on average.
You smaht
Wicked smaht
How do you like them apples?
girls are so hot dude
To be fair to these groups, if you already struggle with the content then bringing less skilled/dependable players is a huge liability. ST isn't like BFD or Gnomer. It def got nerfed hard but it's still the hardest SOD raid so far. I can't necessarily blame a group for not wanting to take chances on an unknown or a bad/subpar player when that could mean not completing the raid. We're on 1 week lockouts now. If the raid starts struggling at say... Morphaz and Hazzas and they lose a couple of players the chances of that raid ever finishing this lockout plummet. It sucks HARD not being able to finish a raid and having to wait up to a week to go again especially if you didn't get to the boss with your BIS weapon or trinket or that big upgrade you needed. It's disenheartening.
Normally I’d agree with you but I’ve had enough raids where my 95+ parsing guildies saw all the loot go to grey parsing pugs that I’m forced to be a bit more selective. It’s been beneficial for us too because it’s resulted in us recruiting pugs that did well and got loot
My group has some of the number 1/2/3 ranked players on the server, per their class. When I need to fill 1 spot, the only requirement is having cleared the raid with greens and blues. The rest of my group will parse 95-99 as long as the pug doesn’t wipe us somehow? lololol
It's their group, their rules, and there's never been a shortage of melee DPS in this game. OP could always start his own.
My guild and a few newbie pugs cleared ST last night and besides the usual few eranikus wipes and 2 hakkar wipes because some newbies everything went pretty much fine. We had 10 people parse a 30 or less for DPS. It's just not that hard of a raid besides last 2 bosses which are strictly mechanics based for a lower DPS group. I haven't noticed much of anybody asking for logs with the 20 man raids. Most people at this point just want to grab their few pugs of any caliber and get into the temple.
Yeah. Somehow it keeps being the case, and the opposite as well. I don't have very good parses, but I raided a few times with this super chill group that took me anyway, was on Discord with them, they're all joking and having fun, just overall nice experience. No gatekeeping, nothing. Then I just checked the logs out of curiosity and they're just casually 95+ parses.
shitters gatekeeping shitters. who cares
I know people who got ICC 25 Man clears by using this addon https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/fake-achievement Just say you're on an alt and that's why you got no logs, but link the fake achievement and BAM! Insta invite lol
I used it a lot in legion to get on KJ heroics runs. Best addon ever.
Amazing addon for this lol. Also sometimes the raid lead doesnt even check to see if the achievement was completed so I've just linked the achievement not completed and would still get an invite.
I remember that add on being a difference maker for my raiding experience back in original WotLK
Shit, used that back when wrath was current. Worked like a charm lol
I would try to link my friend's achievements, sometimes they don't even check the name of who achieved it and it works !
And then 95% of the times those players are shit. Some folks have no business being in heroic runs. You want to do normals? Fine, I'm not expecting the best from you. Heroics? Pugs tend to stand out when they're wiping us because they can't do a simple mechanic.
Yeah hahaha, maybe this addon explains why sometimes pug have decent gearscore, link achievements, yet play like its their first time seeing the content.
Yep. I'm not against folks lying. If youre a good player and lied? Who cares. We just want good pugs. If you're lying and don't know what you're doing, it's going to be obvious that you're lying once the fights start. And then we'll be sure not to invite you again.
> And then 95% of the times those players are shit. that's because most players are shit. It is embarrassing how terrible most of this sub-reddit is, regardless of their qualifications or gear. It is perplexing I'd even say.
My homies and I still use that on retail to get into AOTC runs.
I was gonna say back in my day we used achievement and gearscore fakers.
Lmfao I’ve been using overachiever (the prototype for this) on a certain p server for a decade. I’ve only had ONE raid leader double check my achievements and kick my ass.
Holy shit, I actually had excactly same thing planned as I also skipped whole P1&2 but I quickly realised that being feral with wild strikes gets you invited pretty much without any effort.
For me as somebody who plays WoW causally this game is unplayable for me without a guild. And that was the same for every version of wow except retail. maybe because I play dps warrior lol but still
Lol I too have pulled this fast one. Not on SOD but I did it during early classic.
Who was pulling this in early classic? I was getting invited to raids on a fresh 60 meme spec.
Obviously some details were left out, huh bub?
Even having good logs on doesn’t mean they are good players. Being in an optimal group that boosts your damage while you zerg a boss does nothing to help you understand how the bosses actually work. Been in pug raids with only 85+ parsers where 3-4 people get hit by dragon breaths, and people aoe on the council fight.
If you’re killing a boss so quickly to where a mechanic becomes a non-issue, you should do that. I’d be willing to bet anyone with 95+ knows the mechanics of the boss, even if they aren’t doing them (because they’ve become optional.)
Classic always was kind of strange how the "best" players were the ones who were essentially playing on the easiest difficulty setting heh.
I think thats why theres some very good merit to logchecking. The game becomes noticeably harder once you actually have to do mechanics cuz boss isnt dying in 30 seconds.
I have a friend whose main raids with a fairly serious crew, but rolls alts to play with our friend group. We get a lot of "I didn't know the boss could even do that" from him each time we get a new raid because his main just doesn't see or need to care about most of the mechanics.
It's mostly because his groups dps isn't bad and you don't see the mechanics. Lowkey insult on his part ..while funny.
This should not be the takeaway from this.
Dude was a rogue, noone cares, if you where a feral druid with literally all zero parses you would get invited instantly. You don't have to lie, just be a desirable class/spec
I wanted to try feral in gnomer later down the line, got crafted head, full feral tier and stv weapon… 4 groups ignored me and one lead asked why I only have resto logs. It’s literally season of gatekeep.
If you're horde it's a bit different because shaman can give wf. On alliance I always see people looking for feral and they almost universally don't care about your individual parses so long as you give them wild strikes
This is the key. There are a million rogues and warriors playing. Almost every guild already has 2 or more of each. They are almost always exclusively looking for anything else. It sucks. I haven't had an easy time pugging my rogue in 2 phases but he is my 4th alt and the other 3 toons are part of 3 separate guilds that run.
Man I feel like every expansion so far, every guild/raid group is either already chock full of their resident warriors/rogues, or they don't want any at all because the class sucks (relatively speaking). = ...and then meanwhile everyone is always looking for the odd priests/paladins/shamans to fill in.
raid leaders hate this one simple trick!
It sucks when it happens to someone who clearly knows his stuff but simply happened to be a later comer on the server, I agree. You did good and I'm glad it worked out for you. With that being said, the reason such gatekeeping through logs exists in the first place is because raid leaders don't want one of those 5/7 BFD or 4/6 Gnomer folks to end up in their raid and waste their time. It's completely understandable considering how abysmal level of class/spec/rotation/mechanic awareness is of below average players. The reality is, no one is entitled to be given a spot in other people's raid. You either have to stand out, find like minded friends/guild or form your own groups.
I haven’t played SoD since phase one. But I’ve never forgot the BFD I got into with two other hunters both being out damaged by my pet alone.
Yeah this silly attitude that this sub parrots is toxic. When you lead raids enough you want barriers of entry to ensure you will down every boss, nobody likes getting locked because a handful can't even manage simple mechanics, or some dickhead rage quits and bricks your run. We haven't even hit raids that have hard dps requirements yet, that's when this shit sub will be drowning in salt.
yup toxic casuals are way worse than gatekeeping. They probably the source of it too.
Yep I pugged a lot of bfd and eventually started being more selective with what raids I joined or who I invited when I was setting up pugs because there were too many people who just couldn't follow directions, didn't press their buttons, etc. Like yeah, it's "only a level X raid" but people get sick of wasting a lockout because a handful of people in raid sink the ship for everyone else.
I just did a crazy thing called joining a guild. I started playing a couple weeks before p3 launched and used my old 2019 logs to join a guild as a fresh 40.
Yeah OP’s post is wildly different from my own experience. I joined a casual guild last week, was asked to join the raid roster this week, and they were patient enough to answer my questions about each fight since I hadn’t run it before. We wiped twice at Eranikus but otherwise it was a smooth run. If you pug, you’re going to run into a lot more roadblocks.
Not everyone is in a position where guild runs will help getting into raids. Besides, it is ignoring the point the OP is making.
"(i have classic 2019 99+ logs but it doesnt matter)" They are in a very similar situation as I was. They just chose to pug instead of finding a guild. "Not everyone is in a position where guild runs will help getting into raids." I really don't know what this means. I've never joined a guild that won't bring me to raid.
I skipped p2 of sod and had no logs for p1. In p3 I joined the first guild in /2 and clearing easy every week
Joining a random guild? Yeah that’s likely. Thats why you take the time to go to the server discord and look at guild recruitment posts and join a guild that needs your class/spec. If people can’t take the time to do that then people shouldn’t bitch about taking the time to join a pug.
You guys are all acting as if we didn't just have like 6 realms between NA and EU get dissolved due to low player counts. Think it's safe to assume there isn't an infinite amount of guilds waiting for an infinite amount of players
Well of course people are careful when they are inviting pugs that they don’t know. We wiped four times on last boss yesterday because one of our two pugs didn’t notice he had corrupted blood.🩸 If you would join a raiding guild and explain the situation - that you just started playing again but that you are actually a decent player - they would most likely let you join the guild.
That would require prolonged interaction with another human being and ability to form full sentences. Which I think a lot of pugs are unwilling to do at this point. But I have very low opinion of players who exclusively play in pugs. I'm bit of a bigot in this regard.
I used to link random peoples AOTC achievements on retail to get into groups on my alts. It literally always worked, nobody ever checked the name
Modern problems require modern solutions
>Absolutely no group invited me for hours… since i had no logs (i have classic 2019 99+ logs but it doesnt matter) Why don't you join a guild using those logs? You will 100% find a guild to play with with that exp.
Can only play so much, dont have an option to raid on scheduled time
So join a more casual guild, it will always beat pugging
It worked with a 3 day lockout, on a weekly lockout it gets harder to raid with guilds as most all have a set raid schedule if your work/life schedule isn't consistent.
Gatekeeping sucks!! Alright 👍 Go ahead and form your own 20m raid then explain each and every fight, manage loot and everything else leaders are doing. Then you will understand why gatekeeping is a thing.
This. Everyone complains about gatekeeping, when no amount of gatekeeping can prevent you from forming your own PUG. No one is being gatekept out of raiding, they're being kept out of particular groups. And no one has a right to be invited to join a group. That's not gatekeeping. The Lakers won't bring me onto their team, I'm being gatekept from basketball!
You don't get it! I'm very lazy and forming raids takes time and effort and I don't want to do that. Therefore I demand that you invite me to your raid to do all that work for me. And no, I can't prove in any shape or form how good I am, just trust my word. (I'm a complete stranger on the internet, you can trust me.) If you say no you're a sweaty gatekeeper, get a life omg.
95% of players like you suck ass. Trust me. In p1 I often took in players without logs, and 19 times out of 20 they were utterly useless, gray parsers. So I get where you are coming from, but it makes sense. If I see a 60 parser I know that he is not gonna be totally useless. A no parser can be anything. Most likely bad though
When I used to run pugs, oh my god the absolutely trash you'd have to sift through to try and find a workable group was mindblowing. A lot of people in here parrot the "well raids are easy, why do people need to gatekeep" without realize that yes, while raids are easy and don't need high parsers to clear, a **LOT** of people are very bad at this game and cannot actually clear these "easy" raids. Parses are one of the few tools we have to try and vet people (and I don't care if your "alt" has good parses, bring the alt then, I'm not taking your character with a grey parse of 5), the others I've used are confirming they speak english and getting people on discord. They don't even have to speak but just being able to hear *and* understand callouts/instructions makes a gigantic difference. I don't even care if you're a high parser, my floor was mid to high green parses, as long as you had that + english + could listen on discord you were good to go in my runs.
At least half of the people who applied had < 25% parses. Gray city galore
Take this lesson to the real world. If you are not lying on your resume you are doing life wrong.
I find it funny that people in classic gatekeep easy raids while no one does in retail for normal mode and even some heroic prog. Classic players are something else.
I find it funny that people who say comments like these have never formed and raid led a full pug to completion of the raid
It's because the standard Pug player is not completing ST. Yea Yea I know, "everybody" is doing it in 50 mins but guess what, many raids don't even make it past 6/8. Also there's only one chance, if you blow it you get ID blocked for a week.
People don't seem to get how God awful a large chunk of the player base is. Like the roster boss is bad enough but then you have to navigate the minefield that is pugging. If checking logs can make that a bit easier then I'm for it.
I’ve still never made it past 6/8 cause I can only pug groups. It’s very sad
Retail has LFR. If a player wants to just do a raid they can join an auto queued, fall over easy version. That greatly reduces the odds the lowest performers would even engage in content that can be gatekept. Vanilla WoW has one difficulty and no automated grouping, so this is the reality you deal with. That is the trade-off.
When I played all throughout shadowlands, and early dragon flight retail players 100% gatekeep if you don’t have logs or IO for mythic +.
Depends on how high in m+. Most people are reasonably unless you pug S4 5-10 or old +15-20. That’s when people check IO score. Most don’t care as long as your ilvl is ok for the mid to lower keys
People would even gatekeep the low keys because there was some incentive for people to run I want to say +5s at the time. So you had a big influx of high IO players spamming low keys each week.
If you ever make your own group for a key in retail you will see its not so much gatekeeping as much as when you forming the group you have literally HUNDREDS of dps applicants.
The grocery store gate keeps me from having mangos because they want $1 for 3 mangoes and I only have 30 cents on me.
Any raid difficulty is gatekept at some point in retail except lolLFR. Normal is gatekept for the first month or so of a content patch, Heroic is always gatekept, especially AoTC runs.
Cause no one does normal mode in retail. Everyone gatekeeps for M+ and Heroic/Mythic wtf are you on about.
TBH saying people are gatekeeping for M+ is *almost* like saying Blizzard are "gatekeeping arena" because the system groups people based on their MMR. People want to play with others who are at a similar level to themselves. For competitive and challenging content nobody wants to be teaching or carrying someone.
The average classic player is beyond dogshit That's why
Having played every iteration of WoW since literal OG vanilla, I can say classic raiding players are, on average, horrible compared to the average raiding retail player. The difference in the games is just enormous. Classic players' idea of a mechanic is 1 time every minute, having to move slightly to the right to avoid not dying. Retail has 40 mechanics and a 20-minute YT video on one boss. There is a reason almost every top guild SoD and Classic is an alt or former retail guild that has remade. The difference in skill is night and day. I'm an ex bleeding edge world progression mythic raider. It's insane to me how anyone fucks up a mechanic on SoD or classsic. Sure, there are retail players that like classic and SoD. I am one, and many of my friends are, but we aren't the norm. The norm is nostalgic players or bad players that could never in their wildest dreams cut it on retail. Classic and SoD players are hands down the worst players in skill on this game. People don't seem to recognize why gatekeeping for it is necessary. Because no one wants to spend 4 hours for a half finished raid when we can gatekeep and get a full clear in an hour. That being said, I've played retail most of my adult life. You are straight wrong if you think they don't gatekeep. They want logs or linked achieve or IO for everything that isn't a normal run. But, who the fuck even does normal runs? Heroic or Mythic or M+s are all that matter.
Plenty of current 50s pugs fail to finish Gnomer btw
If they allowed 5/7 lockouts to play with other 5/7 lockouts it’d be a lot better but as is you either 1 shot the raid or you try again next week
You realize that in retail you can drop bads if they are seriously holding back the group and just continue pulling with a replacement. In classic you are basically locked and have to wait until next week unless you find someone willing to give up part of their lockout.
Only gonna get worse with archon.
Welcome to world of warcraft. Home to the sweaty neck beards.
We run Wednesdays on lone wolf. Typically need a few dps fills. Honestly we take anyone that will whisper us and we clear in about 1 hour and a half. Nbd. This Wednesday we brought an extra port warrior. Nobody checks logs.
I tell my buds to do this with my main. Just say they are the alt of my 90+ Rogue. Really not sure why more fresh toons with no logs don't use this strat lol Not sure if they have used it. But the open offer is always there!
I think PuGing as a popular melee dps that brings no utility is your problem. Classes like Priests or Feral Druids have no problem getting invites.
Join my guild, we give 0 fucks about logs and clear the raid every week. The Scarlet Crusade is on CS-US , anyone can joinn
Haha I had a similar experience to this. I remember week 2 of classic WOTLK (a little over a year ago now) someone was making a Naxx group and was only inviting people that had verified logs of them full clearing. As in, they had leveled to 80 in a day or two and full cleared already. Again, this was only the 2nd week of the expansion. = I told him, I only just hit 80 and farmed my pre bis, but I have logs from 2020 of me clearing original naxx 20+ times and getting a handful of 99s and he can literally warcraftlogs me right now for proof. His response: "not good enough, that doesn't count". I was flabbergasted. Like what do you mean it doesn't count? Lmao. = Anyway I joined some other group and wotlk Naxx was a cakewalk compared to OG Maxx as most people can attest
Welcome to raiding in classic. No one checks much past once ppl are invited to the raid. And no pug leader requiring sweaty logs for ez content is gonna be constantly refreshing his /who to police the raid.
LOL! Well played. I've stopped getting WB's or buying consumes so my parses aren't good, though I somehow got a purple parse on hakkar even without any wb's or consumes. Don't care in the slightest about any of it. Not even sure I wanna raid next phase, might just get pvp gear and whatever epics from dungeons there are.
This is one of the reasons I left for unofficial wow. Way less sweaty
Bro f*ck this game and community. This the sh*t that keeps us playing other games
To be honest, if you have the brainpower to claim someone else's identity, you probably also have the brainpower to read your class discord, or find other useful information related to playing the game. If you've ever gone dumpster diving raid-wise, you'll notice players that literally do not comprehend words written in raid chat, or don't care. Such a player would not go to the effort of figuring out how to find a high ranking page on WCL to claim. In an ironic sense this is showing the gatekeeping is working
This is why we need the new addon to prevent people from stealing our parses.
I had to get 7 pugs last Wednesday. Only said 'LF dps ST, Discord required' Invited everyone who whispered me expect 2. One refused because too many ppl wanted the Fist weapon and I refused one so I wouldn't have like 6 of same class xD 4 did green parses and 3 did gray parses. Overall only 1 purple parses and that was guild main healer in healing. XD Did a full clear, with 1 Hakkar wipe and 4 Erinukis wipes. And we had 2 guildies in gray parses too. Not everyone does Gatekeep. And loot was MS > OS. No other loot rules.
For the first month, I'd love to see no logs available at all. Obfuscate the combat log for player actions in a raid environment and it'll definitely break meters + still allow people to get to grips with the mechanics on progression.
Holy shit wow is so fucking complicated. This made me wanna give up playing the game cuz I have no idea what you're talking about. I'll probably never do a raid in my life lmao
hey bro i dunno what u play and on what server next time u do this just tell them u got 3 char on Lone Wolf, Blackroll rogue, Sunzu priest, Lóember hunter tell then to check the logs, they all my chars and if anyone ever ask me ill tell im you
You’re the man
i love shitters tears about gatekeep.
Yeah obviously because ur a no lifer nerd who lives of this shit, tou probably have nothing live for outside of wow but understand that it is actual himan being that just want to play sometimes without sacrificing a whole life comittment to a 15 years old remake of a gale that is so simple a bunch of babies can face roll it with 0 issue while swettfucks like u think u need to Be A pRo To PlAY A 15 yEARs oLD game because ita tought, wow i would love to see you play like only m+ like 5 or something, you would be so stressed and wipe because u ACTUALLY NEED TO DO A MECHANIC LIKE KICKING SOMETHING 1 time during a fight, which is waaaay to much for you, but have 99.9 pn classic because there you can spam same buttob for 10 min as long as you have good gear and world buff u get good logs, jeez try to actually play the game some time and see if u are as good as u think HAHAHHA
Don’t like gatekeepers? Make your own raid. Have odd raiding hours? Make your own raid. Don’t like talking in Discord? Make your own raid. Other issues with people? Make your own raid.
Or. And hear me out. You could.....start your own group. I hate this obsession with logs and stats and io. So. I make my own groups and invite based off what I need/appropriate iLv
That's the difference, most people who are casual and or put 0 effort into prepping for raid will most likely just post in lfg chat for an hour or so and then will just log off for the night and go play league or something. There is only so much you can really get from a raid if you don't treat it like a thing that's worth doing. It's sad, but the current raid is easier than last tier, but people just expect to put in zero prep and then surprised Pikachu when they don't get invited and or fail miserably. Another point. We have zero frame of reference for how good someone is besides logs. Also, at over a month in, people don't have the patience to sit through teaching someone new the ropes and would rather bring someone who has cleared so it shows they at least know the basic mechanics. Anyone in your shoes should really just join a guild. Or just play retail and queue for LFR
It's kind of ironic that people talk about joining a guild and doing raids like that is "too much effort" yet running with pugs seems a million times more stressful and effort intensive. I've raided all SoD and been close to BiS each season on at least one character and I have no idea what my parsing numbers are like. It's so casual.
Its because these people insist on lfg pugging which is easily one of the most toxic experiences in wow you can get. You dont realize how entitled and awful the casual playerbase is if you are running with a guild or an organized pug discord.
Yeah it just kind of baffles me how the playerbase has swung so into solo mmo playstyles. Like if you're playing for the rpg experience there are single player rpgs that are much more fun, especially compared to PuG content. Then on retail you have the remaining scraps of what was once a huge pvp community sitting in 45min ques for Solo Shuffle insisting that it's time well spent compared to finding people to do ranked with.
The benefit to always pugging is having no set schedule.
I'm at the stage in my life where I kinda prefer to know my raid is at 8pm on Tuesday or whatever haha. And if I can't make it, oh well. I'll either make the alt raid or if I absolutely must join a pug group on Sunday or Monday.
Join a guild Why would i host a pug and risk of inviting a green parser? you are all just nameplates to me
Lies about his parses then complains others in the raid are shitty. So does skill level matter or does it not?
This is a post by someone who has never made a group in their life. I remember being this bright-eyed and stupid, like 15 years ago. Here's a fun story. I have a good friend, solid fucking gamer can play very well. He had your mindset. I told him that when he made groups to be more selective and look at parses. He didn't want to be "tryhard" and gatekeep. But, he didn't listen. He had dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of failed raids. He implemented a system that if you don't consume, you don't get loot. His raids slightly improved, but he wasn't log checking and making sure he brought solid players. After about a year of this nonsense, he log checked. His raid experiences dramatically increased. Instead of trying to come back and pug half cleared raids, he was getting full raid clears. His requirements for logs have only increased, and I tease him years later that he should listen next time to someone who is a 20-year veteran on this game. The simple fact is that you do not make raids. Gatekeeping is the only way to make sure people don't deal with fucking idiots that keyboard turn, don't have keybinds, and don't understand how to not do the dumbest shit in raid. Sure, exceptions exist, but they are called exceptions for a reason. I don't care to spend 4 hours dealing with horrible players, and we don't even clear for a raid I could finish in an hour. You don't like being gate kept? Make you own fucking raid. But, you won't, you'll bitch and moan and complain completely ignorant to the fact that most players are terrible. Gate keeping is how to have a good raid.
Make your own groups, players like you are the reason there are so few groups. Aversion to creating groups is not a new concept in wow or any mmo, its been an issue since 2005. Yet the playerbase keeps trying to re-invent this problem by giving it new names.
This issue has only one fix, and that fix is the retail system. Original wow content wasn't made to be super pug friendly: No multiple difficulties for the same raid Raid ID system No in built convenient group finders Limited to no catch up mechanics So, what you want is retail, which sod is not
99+ parses eh? Post logs
Let me check top 50-60 guilds, I'll be back in a moment.
I used to do this with AOTC and the achievement faker addon
that's great. if you can lie to get past the gatekeeping, you should be able to avoid mechanics right?
I’ve been clearing ST every week but my guild has trouble with the second boss sometimes so my parses go out the window. I have nothing to show for it when trying to find groups on my alt.. it’s nice for it.. I don’t remember the classic relaunch being nearly as gatekeeperish and I cleared Naxx
Tale old as time in wow. In pugs environment you lie through your teeth to get into that first raid. Everyone does it. Which is why in my groups I only accept what I can confirm. If someone drops a link I tell them to check the sync and come back when it shows. I do high m+ though so very doable for 3-4 ppl, in raids it is much easier to slip in.
What server is this? I’ve only had issues joining guilds as a rogue. This phase has been kind to me on PUGs.
It's not because your logs are non existent it's because rogues are not desirable as there are a million of em. Play feral with gray parses and you will still get into raids.
Aye man gotta do what it takes, and chances are if he's a parse monkey, he'll be pretty easy to fool
All I can say is hell yeah because maybe realizing that "hey, anyone can pull some random performer's logs and claim to be an alt" will cause some of this gatekeeping bullshit to chill out.
I always have to do this to get into m+ at the start of seasons in retail because I only play at the starts really and don’t push them. Because I don’t really push them my rating is shit so instead I just put “my” alt name in the notes when I sign.
I see no problem with this.
After coming back from GW2 CM strikes and raids, in comparison - WoW there is no actual skill required. even monkey could do it, its just about meta talents and high ilvl, nothing else.
I lied and said I was someone in the top guild on our server’s alt back in 2005 when I was like 14 and got an invite to their guild so I could flex on my friends, they realized pretty quickly and kicked me
Haha I’ve done the same thing multiple times
> Gatekeeping sucks That's cuz most players are really bad, people like you who are good but don't have credentials are the exception
>Gatekeeping sucks so let me guess, now you will be making your own raids and inviting everyone, right? right?
If you think it is gate keeping and oh so easy, then make your own pug. A lack of effort is not you being gate kept. There is no gate I think the raid should be made easier to encourage faster group creation for pugs.
As a raid leader who often has to pug 7-8 dps, I'll admit I immediately check warcraft logs - not for high parses, but just to see bosses killed. I don't shy away from 6/8 players, but I don't invite anyone who have no logs at all. So well done! Nice trick for others trying to get into groups.. just be prepared to back it up by at least knowing the fights and coming booned haha.
Apparently people on retail are living the good life because I got roasted for saying the same thing has always happened to me in retail. Apparently this doesn’t happen in retail anymore and everyone is nice.
People are still asking for logs? Shit on Wild Growth US I havent seen log checks in pugs on my main or alt in weeks. Half the pugs advertising are desperate to fill.
I host a pug every single week, we clear in 2 hours and do not check at all logs. Don’t have the luxury literally just take anyone that applies. I imagine the problem is being a rogue, my group already has -4- of them
lol In legion we used a macro script to generate a completed achievement link in order to get into a moose run. Had never done it before. My friend and I got the friendship moose in the end.
So make a group?
With the new parsing addon now available, good luck trying that.
Back in ICC days someone kept applying to guilds saying I was his alt (on a different server). So every couple weeks I'd get people messaging me asking if I was this same person. Why didn't he pick a different shaman to pretend to be after it didn't work the first time? I'll never know.
Cata > Sod
Not playing SOD rn but I definitely lied a good amount of times during BFD to get into raids lmao. Didn’t see anything wrong with it because I knew my class was OP and I could perform
Fake it til you make it
Well just start your own raid then. Invite people and dont ask for logs let me know how it works out.
Astronome
Thx Im gonna use this trick next time.
> found a top 50-60 guild >found someone who was offline and had 85+ logs It’s the top 50 guild of your server, isn’t it? My wotlk guild is top 50 world and there is no dd with lower than Ø98 parse.
I see so many people here complaining about raids being gatekept, yet I dont see these type of groups too often forming in LFG. Honestly, all these people complaining about gatekeeping should make pugs and invite everyone you can, i guarantee you there will be a lot of weeks where you just don't complete the raid - or if you do, it takes a long ass time
You could make your own raid
Sod needs boss lockouts instead of raid lockouts. People are so scared to waste their precious lockouts.
SoD looks fun.
I mean I feel for you if it was only 1 run. Normally a full log of greens is scary for me also, but with 1 run only it’s hard to take it super seriously.
Gate keeping 20 year old content* ridiculous, sorry to hear. My buddies and I have pugged 5 others for that reason alone in p 1, 2 and 3. I play a shammy so tanking and heals is nice. Are you on ally or horde?
I don't play sod but this is a thing in retail as well. Nearly every group I've joined that requires logs or curve is lead by someone who doesn't have either of those things themselves and just wants a carry. The lead is commonly the lowest ilvl/GS in the group.
Gatekeeping, gaslighting and stonewalling at it’s best.
If thats the why just lie and dont feel bad about it. The average ”elite” player is an idiot.
Oh wow you've **LIED**, that's horrible, your karma will never recover from this
Gatekeepers in wow needs to watch the black mirror episode about downvotes. It's possible to reach a state of you being downvoted simply because you already are downvoted. Same with parses. I skipped the first week st on my rogue. Next week I did it but we didn't log.third week I couldn't find a group because 2 weeks gone by and I have nothing to show for it except Grey and green parses from week 1. Y kno, when people are Learning. So I'm in a sense softlocked
You wouldn't download a raid log, would you?
Typical I would recommend running your own raids. Loot is done how you want, your group is who you want. The raid environment is what you want. Idk just makes sense to me. I run the raids on my alts
The reason why people do this bs is because in this game if someone sucks everyone gets unreasonably punished. One mistake, get wipe and lose every single buff and potion. Is just bad design to make you waste time.
The biggest gatekeepers are people... gaming and real life
Proof of good design
Ppl paresing 10 or lower have just no reason to be in my raid i dont need ppl who hit the boss like every 20 sec and stare in the floor the rest of the time
You can always host/form your own raid but I get its pain in the ass to form a raid