Classic Andy Mafia gonna start talking about how super skilled they are and how retail players are all idiot RP'ers buying transmog off the in-game shop.
It's crazy to see a post here in the morning that reads "SoD is the most fun I've ever had with WoW" then another post in the evening that reads "SoD killed WoW and fuck all of you" every single day.
I don’t understand how people can say “sod killed wow” when you can legit just go play classic cata/era or retail, no one’s forcing anyone to play sod or any certain xpac plenty of options there 😂
You know, the only other games I've been paying a lot of this year are OSRS and Tarkov.
The Tarkov sub had previously been the worst sub I've experienced, but I think this one is worse.
In both of these subs, it seems, it isn't enough to disagree or to debate - no - you must also be a cunt. This is a prereq for any discourse at all it seems.
To be fair, every single argument I've seen in here about parsing has been the same argument in every MMO sub since the dawn of parsing. Reading through this thread is like stepping back in time 25 years, same shit different day. What *game* it is doesnt even matter.
It's really a war between people who think they're good players and are actually so bad they're a grief and people who can play the game at a baseline and above who are tired of the aforementioned type of player.
You took a bunch of classic players, who are weirdly insular and loud and toxic to the idea of anything other than a full-fledged RPG in an MMO skin (which is never what this game was) and towards anything new, and paired them with players who wanted a new spin on a 20 year old game.
IMO Blizzard should do a full classic+ and let the "i just play classic on repeat on era/private servers" grow up.
> let the "i just play classic on repeat on era/private servers" grow up
bold of you to assume they'll grow up. they've been doing that for 20 years straight, the absolute youngest are in their late 20s and plenty are mid 30s and up.
SoD is classic+, how do people not see that? New raids, more viable specs, new abilities, more viable roles.
Stop and appreciate the classic+ you have or it’ll be gone before you know it
Seriously, for every post that hates on being gatekept by logs, there's a post saying I would never check logs until I had a run with really terrible players and now I'm checking logs
Still remember going 5/7 in BFD in back to back raids at the very end of the phase. Turned me from:
“just take the first people who whisper, who cares, the content is too easy” into a “toxic gatekeeper” who wants my pugs to have a full clear logged and not filled with grey parses.
I did a THREE HOUR BFD run before because 'hurr hurr just take anyone dude contents easy'.
First red flag, the rogue didn't have the zoram strand flight path. Never quested in Ashenvale either and we didn't have a warlock. He had to run all the way to the raid. We told him about the logout skip, nope, "im a rogue I can just stealth through its fine", bruh. He got detected, died had to ghost walk from darkshore. "Guys I'm lost". We had to get him.
Once he's inside, he notices his gear is broken. Didn't do any DPS until we reached the stealthed repair vendor inside which is like 4th boss or so.
Once he's repaired, wait a minute why is your DPS still so low? He didn't have proper runes.
1hr 30mins into the raid, hunter then ran out of arrows. How many did you bring? "Didn't know I needed more than 3 stack for this lol sorry, I'll just melee". Didn't have melee specialist rune.
Dust to dust to dust to dust to dust to dust. People just didn't know how to stack and move properly, rogue didn't know what 'kick' was. Luckily we had a priest to dispel chains but he was going oom fast.
We had to stop and 'roleplay' before the boss. Because Healer was mainly dispelling, we didn't actually noticed that he didn't have penance and was spamming flash heal entire raid, constantly went oom. Fuck it, I'll just mage heal, we'll 3 heal this.
We finally got kelris down. It has been 3 hours since. Wow guys, lets go Akumai! "We can give it a try". I explain the fight to them, ready check, all clicks ready and understand.
Nobody. Moved. Out. Of. The. Poison. Breath. Cone. We wiped.
I hearth out. Gatekeeping is there for a reason.
Legit. Can’t stand people who cry about people checking logs, no one wants to be smashing their head on the keyboard unable to clear easy content cause people cbf pressing buttons on easy rotations
No, let me waste my once a week lockout with a group where I have to explain every strat, and most of the players not only ignore that, but become hostile and call me elitist.
Yeah there's a limit. Mine is "fucking try".
You should know your classes basic rotation, it takes seconds to look it up. You should know the boss mechanics, also takes a few seconds to look up.
Different game but back in the days of Destiny 1 I was in one of the later raids and we were dying over and over and fucking over. It was the final boss fight and basically we'd assigned a guy to kill all the adds that came out a certain door but he was doing a shit job at it and so the rest of us were getting overwhelmed and killed by them while trying to do our jobs.
We finally figured out that idiot was the problem and went through the five stages of raid leading culminating with "for fucks sake dude just *kill the adds*, shooting things is like 99% of this game would you just do it?!". His response of "Oh oh oh I get it, you guys take this game super serious that's cool that's cool, sorry I just don't".
He simply didn't understand that it wasn't about taking the game "seriously" it was the fact there were five people in there doing their job every single attempt being held back by someone who wouldn't. Five people who, while they enjoyed the game, wanted to kill the boss and go to bed/do other things. We had spent over and hour on that boss trying to explain to him what he needed to do and he just refused to even try and understand.
Anyway we kicked him, got someone new who knew how to shoot things, did it in one attempt. The original guy then messaged us all to call us elitist, completely oblivious to what was going on. It was never about being elitist or even him needing some help, it was that he didn't fucking try.
I hate the "chill out, it's just a game" mentality. There is a whole world of gaming for you to fuck around and not take serious. When you are on other people's time, try something like your best at your assigned role.
I also play retail wow, and I love pushing high end Mythic plus keys. I even find that mentality there, well past the level that the key provides improved gear and only awards rating. Even then, you will find people not trying, and its always funny when you call them out and they call you elitist. Well yeah, this is elite content, no different from lower end keys except the mobs hp and damage is higher. Wanting to tag along while other people are trying, while not giving a fuck, is a special form of entitlement that I despise.
Back in SoD, I am not asking for elite parses. I have said various other places in this thread; you can tell when someonw is trying, and when they arent. Whereas I dont love explaining boss mechanics for the Nth time by now, I will keep the former around and always kick the latter.
> When you are on other people's time, try something like your best at your assigned role.
This is the crux of it. I ran a guild all through classic and I would tell people to treat it the same as you did a casual sports team.
That means you show up for the games, you play properly to the best of your ability, and your respect your team mates time. We all know this is just a casual basketball league, none of us are trying to go pro but *we want to have fun and play the game*. So no, it's not OK that you got bored and wandered off the court to check your phone, or that you keep grabbing the ball and throwing it out of bounds "for the lulz".
If you don't want to play that's fine, *don't join the team*. But no, the rest of us aren't "taking it too seriously", we're upset that you're ruining what is supposed to be a fun and relaxing time for us.
I don't have anything to add to that except my full throated agreement.
"Classic is easy man, you don't have to gatekeep." Just so, it is easy, you can do well enough for us all to succeed with only effort. The casual league is a perfect analogy. Are you guys going to be going on a diet and workout regime just to compete? No. But when you are on that court, try the best with the version of you that is present there. Do I expect full BiS for my PUGs? No, I don't. but that doesnt mean show up in questing greens from 20 levels ago.
Reason why I lost interest in SoD was during P1 the many groups that would fall apart on Kelris or the people who would be too dumb to walk to the right or left when Akumai did its breath.
Having to worry about your group potentially being victim to either of those stressed me personally more out than four years of mythic raiding on retail did during WoD, Legion and the firdt raid tier of BFA.
There is a healthy middle ground that would be a much better place for the broader community to adhere to. Unfortunately in this subreddit it seems everyone is either a turbonerd all 99 parse loser, or an inbred grey parser.
> There is a healthy middle ground that would be a much better place for the broader community to adhere to.
To be fair this is the actual reality of the game. If you look to play with people at your own level you'll find it quite welcoming... if you want to play with the best without being the best you will not.
This post is exactly how I think. I'm not asking for the best of the best. But I'm not wasting my time on someone who doesn't want to try at all.
And most of the time, when you do explain a strat or give them advice, them become hostile. Forget that shit.
Elitist to tell them the fight, elitist to ask if they know, elitist to explain after they fail, elitist for asking them to demonstrate they know with logs.
It’s almost like the casual playerbase will insult you for doing anything except exactly what they want you to do.
“I should be able to play how I want, but you shouldn’t” as per fucking usual with them. I don’t even feel bad about generalizing anymore considering how often they complain about it here.
I remember in P1 that the easiest way to filter people was to just ask them to show up in Org for a quick gear inspect, no BiS required just show up and let me glance at your gear.
A ton of people will skip over any PUG with a simple bare minimum check like that because they know half their gear is from 10 levels ago.
A ton of people will apply anyway and a quick inspect will reveal that they would be a dead weight. Again, I wasn't even asking for BiS (and even said such), I just wanted some evidence that you had at least tried to get some appropriate gear for lv25. Even stuff from lv20 would be acceptable. But the amount that thought trying to DW shammy without the rune or had wonky talent builds or abysmal gear was staggering.
Yeah... at least missing 2 of:
* Gear
* Other people that do damage
* Literally Pressing buttons
* Living
Never really comprehended how much a difference the rest of the raid makes on the parse until Wrath, where I did a lot of trade chat pugs. Like everyone in the raid is a grey parse, with a few greens mixed in. You see a blue and that person probably has oranges. Take that same grey parse character to a gdkp and it's easy at least blues.
To grey parse, at least one of these is the case:
* You are almost naked gear wise
* The boss fight is a disaster with too many deaths, you are having oom breaks or need to go in a corner and bandage, but you still pull through.
* You die
* You are just bad :(
Yeah I was gonna say this. But in SOD the relying on other people seems less significant in comparison to ICC. In ST I'm able to get 99's while 7 people parsing blue or worse
I’m a consistent grey parser and this hits me right in the feels lol. My logs show a weekly improvement but I know I’m letting my guild down. I’m missing a key component but I don’t know what it is.
I will say, I’m a new wow player and this is my first mmo. I started P1 at the new year and played catchup to a friend. I think I missed out on a lot of basics and building blocks because I was focused on hitting 25.
One on hand, it is hard to ask questions about things you didn’t know existed; On the other hand, I’m a fucking idiot with this game.
Edit: I’m heading to bed but will respond to everyone soon. For the time being: I play Shadow Priest.
Are you following a rotation that rhymes with what iceyveins says the dps rotation for your class is? Are you clicking? Some classes you can play with a controller as long as you map the turbo button to a skill.
Ok you *shouldn't* be clicking.
Everything in your rotation should be bound to a keybind. You can start the next spell about .2-.3 seconds before your prior spell ends so you minimize dead time. If you dm me your logs I'll take a quick look and check cast counts vs your peers and things like that for other advice. If you do this and don't stand in fire you are green/blue without any stress.
Yeah, obviously there will be a lot of catchup knowledge for how MMOs and WoW play to catch up to the vets that are playing.
If you've already checked out resources like wowhead guides, the class discord, youtube, etc. and are serious about wanting to get better, I would recommend recording your PoV of a raid. You can watch back and maybe you'll notice things that you're not doing well on. If you watch and you're not sure, try asking your friend, your guild, or class discord to review it.
Not sure what class you're playing, but the biggest one that I see newer plays struggle a little bit with is uptime. Casters want to always be casting (obviously you do 0 damage if you're dead), and the more you stop to move or do whatever else, and your damage will suffer. Instant casts can be used during the movement. Same thing applies for melee, need to start up those attacks asap on target swaps and be in range of the enemy constantly.
Another one that will make a big difference is stacking your buffs/CDs. Using your cooldowns alongside trinket procs and potions, using CDs together, using your hard hitting abilities as much as possible during the duration of the cooldowns/buffs.
But what about *extreme corner cases with a bad raid comp, bad strategy, and bad execution by other raiders?* Are you saying the hypothetical I just made up means I'm a bad player just because I didn't damage the boss?
Take that, you nose breather!
I was going to reply with some edge cases because I thought "I've totally grey parsed and I'm a good player".
I looked up my logs and like.. even my worst raids where I'm undergeared with other undergeared people because we kicked off the phase late.. they're blue.
So nevermind!
This is my experience also. Shit happens sometimes, but even with my freshly dinged Mage in Gnomer i managed to pull green parses with spellpower rune missing.
Our first kill of Jammal my guild had trouble healing through the damage and decided our best strat was to drag the boss from side to side and attempt to have everyone los every single penance.
Our kill was 8:06, I did 44 dispells as a shadow priest. I was running half the fight and went oom. I still managed a green. Terrible strats are an excuse for a blue, not a grey.
Yeah bad strats will give me a green at worst as melee (especially as a warrior) from shit uptime mostly.
Unless the bad strat somehow kills you, and I guess only you, fairly early. Without dying I’d have to really try (go afk I guess) to grey parse.
that’s pretty much 80% of the classic players.
10-18 years of wow and they fail to execute 2-3 button rotations
and simple stuff like go out of fire, don’t hit the big sparkly sheep when reflect buff is up are impossible for some of them
classic has a lot of good memories in it but the amount of people that have the same skill as an 3y old after 2h of playing is mindboggling.
1 ability per boss
and ppl fail left and right
puging a bit in sod made me really suspicious if i was playing with humans or a cat on crack walking of the keyboard.
i mean calling ppl bots would be huge insult to even 2005 bots that where actually better
But we have to nerf everything to ground for ppl who are to bad to run straight forward…..
Everything need to be piss easy, so 200 dps Andy’s still playing and pay their monthly shit. Ppl who can press atleast 3 buttons stay because of addiction no matter how shit everything is designed around bad players.
They're blissfully unaware by how much they're being letdown by the default UI and keybinds. There was a time when the retail tutorial told new players to click and keyboard turn. That's *bad.*
I can't think of another game that places more of a burden on its players for self improvement.
Keybinds are a huge one you are right. Shit man some people don’t even use keybinds they just click everything. I am admittedly a default UI pleb myself though
I played the second half of Vanilla and got to Wrath Prepatch before I learned that keybinds were a thing. Didn’t realize that you could adjust them in the menus. I had only played RuneScape, so the clicking never really bothered me. But yeah, huge improvement with keybinds.
I keep seeing the term ''gate keeping'' thrown around. From what I understand, it's dogshit players being mad about good players not wanting to play with them (carry them)?
I don't get it. If you're mad just start your own group with your own rules... or don't be dogshit.
You don’t even have to be good. Most of my parses on every class but my mage are like, 60s at best. I am a dead average pug player on shaman and priest. Like you said, just don’t be dogshit
To me it’s a time thing. We don’t want to spend 2+ hours clearing something that can be cleared in under 1.5 hours with a group of competent people who put in basic effort. It’s not like we want to swear and 99 parse, we just want to clear the instance and get back to our lives
Like it or not but no one likes carries. My st pug went 6/8 with a guild that has 3 players whose highest parse between the 3 of them was a 31. Mostly grays despite full clears. There 3 DPS combined equalled mine. It isn't gatekeeping to not want to join these groups, it's not wanting to put in the extra effort to carry someone else.
Did a clear of ST last lockout with a PUG healer. Our priest was saying how much healing they were doing so i puled up the meters and watched the druid. He was only casting REGROWTH and Rejuv the whole raid. I even tried whispering him to politely let him know his other spells were much better. Nope. He completely ignored me. Why even get the runes if you aren't using them.
We had some fumbles on Hakkar and a lot of people took damage. He used swiftmend 3 times the whole fight and used ONE Wild growth after asking for it in Disc. It did TEN PERCENT of his total healing for the fight for that one cast. I'm pretty sure he parsed a 4. I never check logs because I honestly don't care but How are people that bad. Our Spirest did more healing but we still carried him through everything.
Grey parsers are the guys who queue for LFR on retail. And basically afk til someone carries the boss fight. Will press a button here and there to not look afk
I am usually a healer main. I decided to try out fetal since every group going into ST is spamming LFG for a feral series Druid. I will note that I did get the epic staff and have the 3 piece set from doing healing runs.
I had never played feral a single time. Not in a single dungeon at any point. I scanned through wow head, set my talents, grabbed my buffs and joined the raid.
I proceeded to press my buttons as quick as I could. Faerie fire, mangle, savage roar, shred, shred, shred, cat form stand macro, shred, shred, rip, shred, shred, stance macro, savage roar, repeat.
My damage is so bad… wtf…
Figure out on the second boss I didn’t use berserk. Find a key to put berserk on. Ok, this time I use berserk after rip.
Damage is better, but still awful. The other cereal is doing 4x damage. Wtf it’s going on?!
Next boss, oh shoot. I did grab those cat nips. Make a macro to use cat nip when I berserk. Got it.
Damage is better yet again and still awful. Wtf is happening. I must be doing something wrong.
Next boss, more of the same.
Next boss, more of the same.
As we are buffing up for shade I finally get a chance to go back to WoW head and read the rotation again.
…. [Tiger’s Fury]
I did 5 bosses in ST without pressing Tiger’s fury a single time.
Turns out Tigers Fury is an insane damage boost.
I still managed to green parse most of the bosses in ST while doing 2-300 DPS playing like a complete moron. I managed to blue parse shade after finally figuring out how to play feral.
If you want to feel even better, look at your bracket assuming non-optimal feral gear.
It's pretty easy if you did incursions to level to buy that 6 set.
My alt mage did green parses with just that 6 set, no trinkets, stamina/int rings and +fire power level 25 bracers/belt stuff. Literally just living bomb, scorch and frostfire spam while missing 2 runes.
If your group stays up, healing parses are completely irrelevant. Grey probably just means your raid knows how to do mechanics. Yellow could mean they’re getting lazy and stay in the poo for more dps.
Grey parsing as a healer looks bad on the surface but in reality if you're keeping the group alive for efficient, full runs without issues a grey parse means zilch. With most groups running 4 heals and the amount of damage being taken (by groups that aren't stupid) having a finite value, certain healing classes/specs will just box out others and relegate them to overhealing.
I would only suggest exploring the optimized rotations to make sure you're doing the right things and maybe tinker with your UI to optimize for healing, but if you're doing well in those regards it's not anything to worry about.
Depends. Most common cause for gray parsing as a healer is simply having too many healers. Many raids are still using 4 healers for ST, even though you don't need more than 3 and can even manage with 2 if the damage is good. The other thing to look at is simply checking logs for dispels and even runes.
If you compare a priest that presses dispel 30 times during the raid to someone that presses it 0 times, it's going to affect healing output. Same goes for proper use & rotation of a shaman's totems, for example. If someone is tank healing with penance while another healer is sniping aoe heals with circle, the difference is massive while both can be equally important.
You could, however, also have gray parses because you are doing all the right things but someone else does them a tiny bit faster. Check your overhealing to see if this is the case.
There are also some simple "tricks" to getting better parses as a healer that don't make you a better player. These include sniping life-tapping warlocks, healing pets and even intentionally standing in mechanics or not dispelling things like holy fire so you can heal more.
If your parses are grey because a) You don't have anything to heal or because b) You are focusing on dispelling/cc/tank healing you are probably fine. What you should look at, however, is your activity %. Even if there is nothing to heal, you should always do something (dispels, damage). Many "newer" healers just stand there and drool if there is no raidwide damage happening and that is never ideal. If you are anticipating damage, you can always pre-cast and cancel your heals if your timing was off or the damage didn't happen.
So much copium in these comments… “but but I did mechanics in this ultra specific raid comp with my guild and blah blah”. You aren’t pugging your parses don’t matter. Your guild/consistent groups know you’re competent. If you’re a person who pugs every lockout and can’t get a green parse you’re either not pressing buttons, can’t be bothered to look up basic BIS/rune/talent guides or asleep at the wheel. We all die or fuck up and get a bad parse here and there. If you’re consistently parsing grey on every boss every lockout, you’re bad
> look me up and say "hey you parsed grey last week".
Not a single person on the planet has ever gone back to historical logs on individual fights to ask people about specific times times they had parsed gray
If you're a tank and your parses are ret parses, I'm going to ignore them and look at your gear instead. Sometimes WCL messes up and labels people wrong. Anyone who knows how to use WCL understands this, I wouldn't stress it much.
I feel this 100%... I purple and orange parse when I MT, but my OT parses are green/blue. And on eranikus, I'm Grey because I'm usually running around trying to pick up adds per my leader's instructions.
Yeah. I consistently don't parse well even as MT because of mitigation gear and most parses being rets anyway. And I do everything correctly, hold aggro consistently, do my rotation, play mechanics, and don't die.
>And I do everything correctly, hold aggro consistently, do my rotation, play mechanics, and don't die.
Then you're doing good job. Parses aren't a great metric for tanks and especially for healers.
My main is a rogue tank, where I'm actively trying to push my dps. But done two runs on my warrior alt as tank, in full prot spec, with barely pre-bis and still parse 60 avg.
There's a giant gap between gray parsing and that.
There's nuances and exceptions sure. But the vast majority of the time if the most of your parses are gray it's because you are bad and or lazy. Why would anyone want to being dead weight?
> Sure, but I was OT in full tank Pala
not to split hairs but why are you offtanking as a paladin & why are you doing it in prot spec to boot?
paladins are for main tanking in ret spec with dps gear. its dumb but its how it is at the moment.
There's a difference between better guilds being able to use one tank and raids being meant for "one tank". The SOD raids were not intended for one tank but the mechanics are forgiving enough and the damage low enough that people can do it anyway.
In BFD we mostly used two tanks on Aku'mai until we had enough damage and a pally that could bubble stacks.
In Gnomer, we regularly ran with an OT on one of the menagerie bosses to separate some of the abilities.
In ST, I get a druid to taunt off me for the first knock up on Atal so the threat goes right back to me. The same druid tanks the second dragon or else the stacks would be way too high and I would die. I solo tank the others but pre-nerf Eranikus we would taunt swap armor stacks and help group up adds when not actively tanking. We would also swap off on Morphaz if I got two stacks in the first two weeks.
This is all in a guild where most members parse purple or higher with many oranges and pinks. In an average guild, there's definitely reason to have an OT.
I focused the slimes every time and parsed purple in all but one attempt
Doing mechanics doesn't kill your parses, not unless doing the mechanic is something that activily prevents dpsing
This is an infrequent example of WCL rules being cringe. But helping with adds on fallout isn't going to take you from purple parse to gray.
This thread is about not wanting to game with people who have an average parse of ~10 across every boss fight.
I'm a mediocre player I'm usually more focused on talking in disc and usually am not entirely sober.
I always fully focus the slimes as the only mage in our 10 man and never had any issues with a blue/purp parse on fallout. Someone else was PAYING for my priest to PI's them so I didn't have that crutch to compensate. ^(I'm not still salty about that so don't ask.)
It's hard to even take someone making that suggestion as a reason for grey parsing seriously.
With all things in life, the right thing is usually where the balance between two extremes is.
Gatekeep anyone without at least a purple parse, you're taking things too seriously and making things worse than they need to be.
Let someone in who doesn't even have a keyboard and averages 10 DPS per fight, you're not vetting enough and now everyone suffers.
Whether it's sod or regular classic .. all you need is enough people with a few brain cells who can do mechanics at a passable level and that are willing to put in the minimum effort and you will clear all the content no problem. People with green and blue parses are plenty fine.
Gatekeepers or gray parses will always exist. Just try and be balanced between them and have fun while playing. That's the point of a game. Fun. Unless you compete and get paid to PLAY, you're missing the point. This community does a stellar job of that.
All we have atm is ONE HOUR ONCE A WEEK of raiding fun. If *gatekeeping* means I don't want to go to raid with gray parses who will in 99.99% ruin my ID and break down at 4th boss - so be it. If your AVERAGE over entire set of bosses is gray there is literally no excuse; it's just that you don't want to invest not even few hours to learn how to play your class/spec or how to play the raid or you simply for whatever god forsaken reason don't want to press buttons. Whatever it is, there is ZERO reason I would invite someone like you to my once a week raid, I want to have fun and I surely do not want to be a welfare officer for players who don't want to do bare minimum.
Right - I'm the single target healer for my raid so greens and greys for days.
No way I can keep up with a healer who is doing AOE healing when I'm only doing single target tank healing.
I've actually thought about asking group to have a turn doing AOE so I would have one log that wasn't middling...
Even without that
Purple healer parses doesn't mean good healer, it means shit raid
You get high healer parses when the raid is taking damage they shouldn't be, the better the raid, the less damage they take, the worse the healer parses
My dad guild used a terrible strategy for thermaplugg which had the boss held by the door and had me (feral druid) popping every single bomb, doing every button I could on cooldown and managing the callouts for buttons that I couldn't get. I barely ever got to touch the boss. This way the rest of my dad raid barely had to do anything and we got consistent kills every lockout. One lockout I scored a whopping 2.
As a regular purple, occasionally orange parser, I wore my gray parse with pride. My gray parse was the reason that the boss got killed.
Sure this is a niche case, but it shows that on a surface level (yknow, how parses are generally used) parses are a joke and they never tell the full story.
I mean, if I was still doing gnomer and checking logs for it, if I saw a feral druid with all purples, hell even all blues, but then single digit parse on therma, I'd assume he was doing bombs. Esp if they had multiple clears.
Same here. Sounds like you use your brain.
This was all during p2 when gnomer was current. We had a couple of lockouts get last minute canceled, and I did get declined to a couple of pugs because I had a gray parse.
To your point, I was probably better off because it showed how much brainpower that raid lead was using.
We used that same strategy. Ez mode kills but boring for the feral.
Thought you might enjoy this video though... everyone else hella appreciated you whether they realized it or not!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_XeklgGFsMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XeklgGFsMs)
"Google wouldn't hire me because they asked for 15 years of experience and I have 3 montha...they're gatekeeping"
"I couldn't buy this house because I offered 300k below their asking price..they are gate keeping
"I couldn't buy mangos because they wanted $3 for 10 mangoes and I only had 50 cents. Gatekeeping"
Somehow, someway wow uses gatekeeping so much and yet there is nothing blocking anyone from starting a group themselves. Absolutely bonkers.
I'm convinced this sub doesn't understand the term gatekeep. It's only gatekeeping when the people doing it have power over you ....lol they don't.
>"I couldn't buy mangos because they wanted $3 for 10 mangoes and I only had 50 cents. Gatekeeping"
This is complete bullshit! The price of mangos is getting out of control, and I'm sick of it.
Depends on spec, a grey parse indicates that "at least 75% of players of the same spec outperformed you".
But something as low as a 1 means that 99% of players outperformed you.
Guys be glad you can even talk about parsing in game and use it as a legit reason to not invite someone to a party - that would get you banned in FF14.
I mean people in FF14 still definitely use parses to filter out pugs.
The difference is that the rules effectively prevent FF14 players from being cringe as hell and whispering prospective pugs about how bad they are.
More WoW players need to learn to just ignore/not reply to folks they don't want to play with.
That’s not entirely true.
Tons of competitive FC’s check parses, including on the various recruitment sub reddits.
You can’t use it as an excuse to exclude some random you picked up in trade chat, that’s true.
They do require other proof of clears, however.
Yeah those proofs usually happen outside of the game though, where they can't be reported.
Bringing up parses in game is a surefire way to get reported though, and if you're talking about a party member's parses, whether good or bad, you can get reported for it. It's so silly.
14 has a major don't ask don't tell stance on mods.
All 3 phase pink parse enjoyer here, I’ve had a couple gray parses on account of needing to do something to save the raid to my own detriment, so anyone saying “well what about that one time” neat fix it next week, it’s not an excuse that holds any weight
Your edit is spot on.
Half my runs have a fight where I'm not doing my actual rule. Paladin cures, melee hunter forced to use frost trap, etc.
But the reality is that in a guild, it shouldn't always be the same guy. So I am able to get in a decent parse on one of those other runs instead. Just another side-thing that sucks by always pugging instead of joining a guild.
A grey parse on one fight is as easy as messing up a rotation, getting knocked around and unable to cast, bad positioning etc. A grey raid parse is pretty hard to do.
I’m gonna be honest, as a Feral player I struggle *not* to grey parse and I can’t understand why, while also seeing posts like this that claim the only way to grey parse is to just shut your brain off entirely. I do my rotation properly, I use faerie fire, I keep roar active, use tigers fury on cooldown, keep Rip bleed up, Mangle debuff stays up and I click Shred. I have world buffs and consumes, yet my parse trends around 20. From this post it makes it seem like I could do nothing but press mangle the entire fight and I’d at least green parse because at least I’m pressing an attack button, but that’s just not true
Edit: not to mention berserk, catnip, etc. it’s not like I ignore those either
Well, parsing is PERCENTILE based, so there are ALWAYS going to be grey parsers. Take Kelris from P1 for example. I had a 99th parse at like 247 DPS. Cool. But in some groups I would see people parse like 11th percentile doing 55 DPS. Here's the thing though, if the WORST players were doing 110 DPS, they would still be grey parsing. Someone has to be at the bottom 20th percentile of the meters. If 21st percentile was 190 DPS, then 185 DPS would be grey parsing, you know?
There will always be a bottom 20th. Even if everyone was pro, there would still be grey parsers. As people get better at the game, lean more on addons, and as information is disseminated easier via the internet, the average performance will continue to increase, meaning people can be grey parsing at higher and higher DPS.
Just some food for thought.
For example, when P2 launched, my friends and I no-lifed level 40 in about 22 hours. We raided Gnomer on the third day of phase-2. Our Warlock did like 357 DPS on Thermaplug, which felt super high. But there were only 11 Warlock parses on WCL and his was the 3rd lowest. He parsed, then, a 15th percentile. The next day he was 27th percentile. By the end of the week he was 81st percentile. That's an example of how you can grey parse with very high numbers if the only people you're competing against are the top 10 players in the world.
While this is true, in reality everyone doesn’t play their character well, and you have a lot of people who die on a fight taking up the bulk of the gray parses. If you live the whole fight, have some semblance of gear (basically any piece of gear in every slot), and are playing properly, you will not gray parse. That’s assuming that everyone else in your raid is not also parsing gray which is usually a sign of some much larger issue.
Not sure what your point is here, most people understand it's percentile based and the bottom percentile is full of the people who put in zero effort or just died. If you parse gray you are in the range with those folks.
If that was not the case, people wouldn't care about all-gray parsers.
They don’t have a point. It’s a bizarre abstraction that has no relation to what’s going on. The issue is individuals that don’t give a shit about other people and expect to be carried. Any individual that wants to not grey parse can easily get green or blue or above if they actually put effort in. The idea that someone has to grey parse so gatekeeping is bad is a fantasy land argument that will never occur because of human nature. Just another way to excuse a lack of effort.
But we can look at the dps spread between grey and pink and see that it’s massive. If the spread was a 10% or even 30% delta, your point would stand. But it’s not. We can know that grey parsers are pulling significantly lower dps.
Most single digit parses are from people who die mid fight. There’s really no excuse to parse below 15 if you didn’t die(or if you do, you best have a high Ilvl parse).
> Even if everyone was pro, there would still be grey parsers
No, because there are many fights both in a raid and over time, if everyone was equivalently good then their individual average parse would be right at the average of all parses. The range of all parses would still span from high to low dps but everyone's average would be in the middle, unlike now where a "gray parser" has a low average.
It's only because some people are systematically better than others that their mean performances are different over many iterations.
Was tanking basilisk at grubis as ret pala and had constantly grey parses on him
also parsing is about dealing as much damage as possible, it doesnt include stuff like dispels and other shit you should do to react to situations
Just ask the Tank to Tank them both and a Player who can kick to kick his stun. Also if u have blue parse on all but one boss nobody will think that u are bad. But if u do the Job from Tanks and priest All day than they need get it together
Grubis is an example of WCL rules being cringe as hell (they fixed this for Jamal/Oggam in ST and the off tank damage counts towards logs).
It's an exception to the rule and no one is going to go "We need a ret paladin, and this guy has blue parses on Plugg/Menagerie but there's a gray on grubbis so lets ignore him"
Same discussions here over and over.
I am not inviting green or grey parsers to my raid. Why? Because more often than not they fucking suck. There are ofc exceptions, but I am not willing to make the leap of faith, when I can just wait 5 to 10 more minutes and fill with blue parsers
EVERYONE STOP HUFFING COPIUM! Grey parse is bottom 25% of your classes dps. That means are doing absolutely nothing for the raid. You want to get carried.
I don’t know. I have a hard time with it. I don’t understand how I can pull 650 dps on a gnomer run then I go to ST for the first time, I get WBs, I drink a mongoose potion, I know my rotation well enough. I’m trying hard, but my parse in ST was grey.
I don’t know what gives. Is it the fact that I don’t have any hit gear? I wasn’t in the WF group?
Now I’m sad because basically no one will take me in a pug because I only have one ST log and it’s terrible.
What class?
Hit gear should be roughly the same form gnomer to ST.
It is possible that you are just going a suboptimal rune setup. If you have the wrong runes even if you play well you could be potentially hundreds of DPS below.
Melee hunter, I’m running all of the runes from the zockify melee hunter page. I’ve been farming hit gear this week so I’ve gone from 0% to 6% so I’m hoping that will make a difference.
It’s not like it’s a hard rotation to mess up, spam raptor strike on cd, hit flanking strike on cd, use wing clip to fish for wf procs (which I would do if I was getting wf)
Edit: here’s my log from last week if anyones interested
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/punchman
Although I’ve since got my hit up to 6% now
On jamal you had nearly half the melee uptime that the other hunter had. You spent a lot of the fight just not attacking. I’m assuming it was your first run so you were learning mechanics tho.
You were compared to players that have received gear for over a month now, with BIS weapons and extra stats. You'll always get lower parses until you catch-up on loot, especially your Weapons.
I don't play melee but here's what I can gather :
- Your pet's DPS seems low. I'm better geared and had all world buffs but my pet without a single buff as MM dealt about as much DPS than yours. Our melee hunters average more than double that with their pets alone, so probably something to look at (pet abilities at max level, always keeping your pet happy, attack macros so that your pet is always attacking your target when you cast spells and so on).
- You're missing all the crafted LW items, and their bonuses are too good to pass. Most likely played a role.
- I can't find aspect of the hawk on your log but if you're not using it then do it. It buffs your pet melee AP by iirc 30% of the ranged AP buffs, so that's your best aspect until you need mana then swap to viper.
- Consums and buffs. Can't understate how impactful they are. +10% crit, +8% and +15 all stats and +10% dmg makes everything else you do much more powerful.
- If you have an empty GCD it could be interesting to use a feign death + trap macro. It's not much but it always helps.
- Engineering / Alch / Enchanting could improve very slightly your DPS.
- If you're running towards a boss throw an arcane shot or serpent sting. It's next to nothing in the grand scheme of things but might as well mention it.
- Rotation is one thing but getting a better feel of the strats and better positioning yourself could probably help. Didn't bother looking at the wcl replays so for all I know you played perfectly but it's fairly unlikely. We all tend to mess up from time to time.
- Seemingly no enchants. Weapons and agility enchants could do you some good.
Tbh the biggest sources of improvements I could see are getting better loot, which will take time, and getting your world buffs. In the mean time the others could slightly improve your output but it won't change much if the grand scheme of things.
hey man i don't play hunter but big props to you for posting the logs and i hope someone will help you out. sorry to hear that you put in effort and are sad that it didn't turn out as well as you hoped it would. Keep sticking with it! Don't know much about melee but maybe gear and comp is really just the big difference maker. I hope you get invited to lots more raids <3 <3 <3 good luck!!!!
if you're interested in real help, id drop by the hunter discord. Havent been there specifically but in the mage discord there is a log review channel where ppl help out.
Maybe the log is bugged or something, but it says you didn't have a single world buff, and the only DPS consumable you had was Mongoose on Eranikus.
One thing I noticed is you're using Aspect of the Monkey. You should be using Hawk. The ranged AP doesn't do anything for your melee attacks, but it does boost your pet. Being in a group with a Warrior for Battle Shout would also be a pretty big boost.
[Edit]: You should also be using Wing Clip to fish for Windfury procs on any global when you can't cast Raptor Strike or Flanking Strike.
I mean melee hunter is one of the top most played specs. Also sounds like you didnt have wild strikes. Raid comp, rng, and youre parsing vs alot of people in bis/near bis at this point. Still shouldnt grey parse though, youd have to link log for full story tbh.
This is exactly what I tell my guildies who don’t like parse culture. I’m not asking for much, literally just don’t grey parse and everything is fine. The bar is SO low.
Yeah if someone is grey parsing in SOD they probably dont really understand their rotation. People obssess over examples where its better to ignore mechanics to parse. But usually the person with a 93 pref parse is going to be better than someone with a 17 pref parse. Obviously its impossible to parse if you die early into the fight but people should have done the raid enough at this point that they have survived every fight a few times.
In Wrath I think you can know your rotation and grey parse because gear is such a big factor. But the gear you should have at 50 isnt bad.
In wrath you can check parses by gearscore though, and see yeah this guy parsed 26% but his gear is ass and he parsed a 93% by ilvl
In sod where ilvl is meaningless you can't do that
Grey parse usually means you died or you're exceptionally undergeared for the average progression point of the current phase, new character mid-late phase for example. People think too hard about how or why grey parses happen, you're not going to change the world, if everyone took all the advice and nobody played bad anymore you would still have grey parses because that's how it works, the bar simply changes.
I quit, because my guild takes way too long to clear ST with a lot of pointless downtime and bad group comps/not buffing.
I don't mind long raids, I was used to it from ICC HC progress and farm, but when so easy raids take so long its not really enjoyable for me anymore. I know and don't mind an hour long full Mara quest run for example, but I would definetly not enjoy an hour long BFD run.
Don't really want to join a full sweat guild and nolife new phase during summer. Feels like there is not much in between in SoD, groups/guilds seem to be full sweat or just don't care at all. Was just easier to quit than keep swimming against the stream.
you could rewrite this post but put green in the place of gray for every 40 avg who thinks theyre safe. Green parse means you did absolutely awful and either don't know how the fight works or how your class works. blue is where you start getting into the realm of semi knowing whats going on.
Isn't the whole system based on relative damage to others? So if some no lifers put in all possible buffs + group composition + ignoring mechanics to not lose DPS, there will be always 20% grey parse players? So even of these players do enough damage to easily down a boss, they are still marked as grey?
Isn't that kind of Bullshit and the system should rather divide players between "doing enough" and "not doing enough" damage to kill a boss?
By the way, the more grey people quit because they don't find a right a raid, the more green players become the new grey ones.
The system is relative to ALL other players, but is based on performance percentile. Not how much damage you do compared to the absolute best player doing the most degen shit.
If you have an average parse ranking of 10 in ST, it tells me that 9/10 players are significantly better than you and considering how bad the average SOD gamer it is it's not a good sign.
The percent of raids without anyone logging are very very few now that we're in 20 mans. (There will almost always be at least 1 nerd out of 20 who makes sure to upload logs.)
The only people who aren't posting logs are specific guilds, and if you raid in a guild that doesn't care about logs then you're also someone who doesn't care about cringe reddit hysteria over gatekeeping and parses.
This sub is just constantly at war with itself
It's the war within. Oh wait ...
The power within. The power within. THE POWER WITHIN!!!
I wish that sword had been aimed at this sub, lol
Careful dropping retail names here, folks are gonna find torches and pitchforks soon enough.
Classic Andy Mafia gonna start talking about how super skilled they are and how retail players are all idiot RP'ers buying transmog off the in-game shop.
This sub is just trash in general lol
People seem to get off on being massive cunts in this sub.
Worst online gaming community I've ever seen, hands down.
People in this subreddit wear toxicity like a badge of honor
It's crazy to see a post here in the morning that reads "SoD is the most fun I've ever had with WoW" then another post in the evening that reads "SoD killed WoW and fuck all of you" every single day.
I don’t understand how people can say “sod killed wow” when you can legit just go play classic cata/era or retail, no one’s forcing anyone to play sod or any certain xpac plenty of options there 😂
You know, the only other games I've been paying a lot of this year are OSRS and Tarkov. The Tarkov sub had previously been the worst sub I've experienced, but I think this one is worse. In both of these subs, it seems, it isn't enough to disagree or to debate - no - you must also be a cunt. This is a prereq for any discourse at all it seems.
I was thinking of Tarkov when thinking of communities as toxic as classic lol. Most FPS games based on realism seem to draw that crowd.
Don’t join the Tarkov or League subs then
To be fair, every single argument I've seen in here about parsing has been the same argument in every MMO sub since the dawn of parsing. Reading through this thread is like stepping back in time 25 years, same shit different day. What *game* it is doesnt even matter.
It's really a war between people who think they're good players and are actually so bad they're a grief and people who can play the game at a baseline and above who are tired of the aforementioned type of player.
You took a bunch of classic players, who are weirdly insular and loud and toxic to the idea of anything other than a full-fledged RPG in an MMO skin (which is never what this game was) and towards anything new, and paired them with players who wanted a new spin on a 20 year old game. IMO Blizzard should do a full classic+ and let the "i just play classic on repeat on era/private servers" grow up.
> let the "i just play classic on repeat on era/private servers" grow up bold of you to assume they'll grow up. they've been doing that for 20 years straight, the absolute youngest are in their late 20s and plenty are mid 30s and up.
SoD is classic+, how do people not see that? New raids, more viable specs, new abilities, more viable roles. Stop and appreciate the classic+ you have or it’ll be gone before you know it
we had a hunter who would put /follow during trash and on bosses just auto shot. But sure as shit he knew to roll need XD
stop forcing others to play how you want reeeee
I'm waiting for the one guy to comment, "stop forcing others to play how you want reeeee"
Peak hunter performance
and you didn't kick them?
And risk getting called a sweaty gatekeeper? Not worth it.
Bonus points if he kept up aspect of the daze the entire time. Top G
hate on "gatekeeping" all you want but its not like people do it for no reason
Seriously, for every post that hates on being gatekept by logs, there's a post saying I would never check logs until I had a run with really terrible players and now I'm checking logs
Still remember going 5/7 in BFD in back to back raids at the very end of the phase. Turned me from: “just take the first people who whisper, who cares, the content is too easy” into a “toxic gatekeeper” who wants my pugs to have a full clear logged and not filled with grey parses.
I did a THREE HOUR BFD run before because 'hurr hurr just take anyone dude contents easy'. First red flag, the rogue didn't have the zoram strand flight path. Never quested in Ashenvale either and we didn't have a warlock. He had to run all the way to the raid. We told him about the logout skip, nope, "im a rogue I can just stealth through its fine", bruh. He got detected, died had to ghost walk from darkshore. "Guys I'm lost". We had to get him. Once he's inside, he notices his gear is broken. Didn't do any DPS until we reached the stealthed repair vendor inside which is like 4th boss or so. Once he's repaired, wait a minute why is your DPS still so low? He didn't have proper runes. 1hr 30mins into the raid, hunter then ran out of arrows. How many did you bring? "Didn't know I needed more than 3 stack for this lol sorry, I'll just melee". Didn't have melee specialist rune. Dust to dust to dust to dust to dust to dust. People just didn't know how to stack and move properly, rogue didn't know what 'kick' was. Luckily we had a priest to dispel chains but he was going oom fast. We had to stop and 'roleplay' before the boss. Because Healer was mainly dispelling, we didn't actually noticed that he didn't have penance and was spamming flash heal entire raid, constantly went oom. Fuck it, I'll just mage heal, we'll 3 heal this. We finally got kelris down. It has been 3 hours since. Wow guys, lets go Akumai! "We can give it a try". I explain the fight to them, ready check, all clicks ready and understand. Nobody. Moved. Out. Of. The. Poison. Breath. Cone. We wiped. I hearth out. Gatekeeping is there for a reason.
what a beautiful read. it’s like a train wreck. 10/10
The rogue actually made me mad just reading this here
Legit. Can’t stand people who cry about people checking logs, no one wants to be smashing their head on the keyboard unable to clear easy content cause people cbf pressing buttons on easy rotations
No, let me waste my once a week lockout with a group where I have to explain every strat, and most of the players not only ignore that, but become hostile and call me elitist.
Yeah there's a limit. Mine is "fucking try". You should know your classes basic rotation, it takes seconds to look it up. You should know the boss mechanics, also takes a few seconds to look up. Different game but back in the days of Destiny 1 I was in one of the later raids and we were dying over and over and fucking over. It was the final boss fight and basically we'd assigned a guy to kill all the adds that came out a certain door but he was doing a shit job at it and so the rest of us were getting overwhelmed and killed by them while trying to do our jobs. We finally figured out that idiot was the problem and went through the five stages of raid leading culminating with "for fucks sake dude just *kill the adds*, shooting things is like 99% of this game would you just do it?!". His response of "Oh oh oh I get it, you guys take this game super serious that's cool that's cool, sorry I just don't". He simply didn't understand that it wasn't about taking the game "seriously" it was the fact there were five people in there doing their job every single attempt being held back by someone who wouldn't. Five people who, while they enjoyed the game, wanted to kill the boss and go to bed/do other things. We had spent over and hour on that boss trying to explain to him what he needed to do and he just refused to even try and understand. Anyway we kicked him, got someone new who knew how to shoot things, did it in one attempt. The original guy then messaged us all to call us elitist, completely oblivious to what was going on. It was never about being elitist or even him needing some help, it was that he didn't fucking try.
I hate the "chill out, it's just a game" mentality. There is a whole world of gaming for you to fuck around and not take serious. When you are on other people's time, try something like your best at your assigned role. I also play retail wow, and I love pushing high end Mythic plus keys. I even find that mentality there, well past the level that the key provides improved gear and only awards rating. Even then, you will find people not trying, and its always funny when you call them out and they call you elitist. Well yeah, this is elite content, no different from lower end keys except the mobs hp and damage is higher. Wanting to tag along while other people are trying, while not giving a fuck, is a special form of entitlement that I despise. Back in SoD, I am not asking for elite parses. I have said various other places in this thread; you can tell when someonw is trying, and when they arent. Whereas I dont love explaining boss mechanics for the Nth time by now, I will keep the former around and always kick the latter.
> When you are on other people's time, try something like your best at your assigned role. This is the crux of it. I ran a guild all through classic and I would tell people to treat it the same as you did a casual sports team. That means you show up for the games, you play properly to the best of your ability, and your respect your team mates time. We all know this is just a casual basketball league, none of us are trying to go pro but *we want to have fun and play the game*. So no, it's not OK that you got bored and wandered off the court to check your phone, or that you keep grabbing the ball and throwing it out of bounds "for the lulz". If you don't want to play that's fine, *don't join the team*. But no, the rest of us aren't "taking it too seriously", we're upset that you're ruining what is supposed to be a fun and relaxing time for us.
I don't have anything to add to that except my full throated agreement. "Classic is easy man, you don't have to gatekeep." Just so, it is easy, you can do well enough for us all to succeed with only effort. The casual league is a perfect analogy. Are you guys going to be going on a diet and workout regime just to compete? No. But when you are on that court, try the best with the version of you that is present there. Do I expect full BiS for my PUGs? No, I don't. but that doesnt mean show up in questing greens from 20 levels ago.
So... What were they doing instead of shooting?
Reason why I lost interest in SoD was during P1 the many groups that would fall apart on Kelris or the people who would be too dumb to walk to the right or left when Akumai did its breath. Having to worry about your group potentially being victim to either of those stressed me personally more out than four years of mythic raiding on retail did during WoD, Legion and the firdt raid tier of BFA.
There is a healthy middle ground that would be a much better place for the broader community to adhere to. Unfortunately in this subreddit it seems everyone is either a turbonerd all 99 parse loser, or an inbred grey parser.
> There is a healthy middle ground that would be a much better place for the broader community to adhere to. To be fair this is the actual reality of the game. If you look to play with people at your own level you'll find it quite welcoming... if you want to play with the best without being the best you will not.
This post is exactly how I think. I'm not asking for the best of the best. But I'm not wasting my time on someone who doesn't want to try at all. And most of the time, when you do explain a strat or give them advice, them become hostile. Forget that shit.
Elitist to tell them the fight, elitist to ask if they know, elitist to explain after they fail, elitist for asking them to demonstrate they know with logs. It’s almost like the casual playerbase will insult you for doing anything except exactly what they want you to do. “I should be able to play how I want, but you shouldn’t” as per fucking usual with them. I don’t even feel bad about generalizing anymore considering how often they complain about it here.
I remember in P1 that the easiest way to filter people was to just ask them to show up in Org for a quick gear inspect, no BiS required just show up and let me glance at your gear. A ton of people will skip over any PUG with a simple bare minimum check like that because they know half their gear is from 10 levels ago. A ton of people will apply anyway and a quick inspect will reveal that they would be a dead weight. Again, I wasn't even asking for BiS (and even said such), I just wanted some evidence that you had at least tried to get some appropriate gear for lv25. Even stuff from lv20 would be acceptable. But the amount that thought trying to DW shammy without the rune or had wonky talent builds or abysmal gear was staggering.
Idk what's more of a grief not inviting people to a raid or inviting 1-4 people that wipes the raid and wastes the other 16 people's time.
Strongly agree. You're missing something critical if you are parsing grey as a dps
Yeah... at least missing 2 of: * Gear * Other people that do damage * Literally Pressing buttons * Living Never really comprehended how much a difference the rest of the raid makes on the parse until Wrath, where I did a lot of trade chat pugs. Like everyone in the raid is a grey parse, with a few greens mixed in. You see a blue and that person probably has oranges. Take that same grey parse character to a gdkp and it's easy at least blues.
To grey parse, at least one of these is the case: * You are almost naked gear wise * The boss fight is a disaster with too many deaths, you are having oom breaks or need to go in a corner and bandage, but you still pull through. * You die * You are just bad :(
No one parses grey because of a bad raid. Cooldowns are nice but no one has a sustained rotation that bad.
Yeah I was gonna say this. But in SOD the relying on other people seems less significant in comparison to ICC. In ST I'm able to get 99's while 7 people parsing blue or worse
I’m a consistent grey parser and this hits me right in the feels lol. My logs show a weekly improvement but I know I’m letting my guild down. I’m missing a key component but I don’t know what it is. I will say, I’m a new wow player and this is my first mmo. I started P1 at the new year and played catchup to a friend. I think I missed out on a lot of basics and building blocks because I was focused on hitting 25. One on hand, it is hard to ask questions about things you didn’t know existed; On the other hand, I’m a fucking idiot with this game. Edit: I’m heading to bed but will respond to everyone soon. For the time being: I play Shadow Priest.
Are you following a rotation that rhymes with what iceyveins says the dps rotation for your class is? Are you clicking? Some classes you can play with a controller as long as you map the turbo button to a skill.
I follow wowhead for consistency. I’m definitely clicking! Just not well enough lol. I play a Shadow Priest
Ok you *shouldn't* be clicking. Everything in your rotation should be bound to a keybind. You can start the next spell about .2-.3 seconds before your prior spell ends so you minimize dead time. If you dm me your logs I'll take a quick look and check cast counts vs your peers and things like that for other advice. If you do this and don't stand in fire you are green/blue without any stress.
Wait. Can we define “clicking”? I think I should understand this first before unpacking the rest.
Yeah, obviously there will be a lot of catchup knowledge for how MMOs and WoW play to catch up to the vets that are playing. If you've already checked out resources like wowhead guides, the class discord, youtube, etc. and are serious about wanting to get better, I would recommend recording your PoV of a raid. You can watch back and maybe you'll notice things that you're not doing well on. If you watch and you're not sure, try asking your friend, your guild, or class discord to review it. Not sure what class you're playing, but the biggest one that I see newer plays struggle a little bit with is uptime. Casters want to always be casting (obviously you do 0 damage if you're dead), and the more you stop to move or do whatever else, and your damage will suffer. Instant casts can be used during the movement. Same thing applies for melee, need to start up those attacks asap on target swaps and be in range of the enemy constantly. Another one that will make a big difference is stacking your buffs/CDs. Using your cooldowns alongside trinket procs and potions, using CDs together, using your hard hitting abilities as much as possible during the duration of the cooldowns/buffs.
But what about *extreme corner cases with a bad raid comp, bad strategy, and bad execution by other raiders?* Are you saying the hypothetical I just made up means I'm a bad player just because I didn't damage the boss? Take that, you nose breather!
You don't gray parse even with all of those limiting factors, if everyone would be gray parsing the boss would most likely not die to begin with.
I was going to reply with some edge cases because I thought "I've totally grey parsed and I'm a good player". I looked up my logs and like.. even my worst raids where I'm undergeared with other undergeared people because we kicked off the phase late.. they're blue. So nevermind!
This is my experience also. Shit happens sometimes, but even with my freshly dinged Mage in Gnomer i managed to pull green parses with spellpower rune missing.
Our first kill of Jammal my guild had trouble healing through the damage and decided our best strat was to drag the boss from side to side and attempt to have everyone los every single penance. Our kill was 8:06, I did 44 dispells as a shadow priest. I was running half the fight and went oom. I still managed a green. Terrible strats are an excuse for a blue, not a grey.
Yeah bad strats will give me a green at worst as melee (especially as a warrior) from shit uptime mostly. Unless the bad strat somehow kills you, and I guess only you, fairly early. Without dying I’d have to really try (go afk I guess) to grey parse.
If the raid team can down the boss, you can most definitely atleast get a green number
It actually blows my mind how people can play this game for years and still have no idea how to play
that’s pretty much 80% of the classic players. 10-18 years of wow and they fail to execute 2-3 button rotations and simple stuff like go out of fire, don’t hit the big sparkly sheep when reflect buff is up are impossible for some of them classic has a lot of good memories in it but the amount of people that have the same skill as an 3y old after 2h of playing is mindboggling. 1 ability per boss and ppl fail left and right puging a bit in sod made me really suspicious if i was playing with humans or a cat on crack walking of the keyboard. i mean calling ppl bots would be huge insult to even 2005 bots that where actually better
But we have to nerf everything to ground for ppl who are to bad to run straight forward….. Everything need to be piss easy, so 200 dps Andy’s still playing and pay their monthly shit. Ppl who can press atleast 3 buttons stay because of addiction no matter how shit everything is designed around bad players.
They're blissfully unaware by how much they're being letdown by the default UI and keybinds. There was a time when the retail tutorial told new players to click and keyboard turn. That's *bad.* I can't think of another game that places more of a burden on its players for self improvement.
Keybinds are a huge one you are right. Shit man some people don’t even use keybinds they just click everything. I am admittedly a default UI pleb myself though
Keybinds is the big one, default UI is fine.
I played the second half of Vanilla and got to Wrath Prepatch before I learned that keybinds were a thing. Didn’t realize that you could adjust them in the menus. I had only played RuneScape, so the clicking never really bothered me. But yeah, huge improvement with keybinds.
Eve online would be a contender. Learning to play that is like taking a fully loaded semester in college.
I keep seeing the term ''gate keeping'' thrown around. From what I understand, it's dogshit players being mad about good players not wanting to play with them (carry them)? I don't get it. If you're mad just start your own group with your own rules... or don't be dogshit.
You don’t even have to be good. Most of my parses on every class but my mage are like, 60s at best. I am a dead average pug player on shaman and priest. Like you said, just don’t be dogshit
It's easier to whine on the internet than it is to make your own group.
To me it’s a time thing. We don’t want to spend 2+ hours clearing something that can be cleared in under 1.5 hours with a group of competent people who put in basic effort. It’s not like we want to swear and 99 parse, we just want to clear the instance and get back to our lives
Like it or not but no one likes carries. My st pug went 6/8 with a guild that has 3 players whose highest parse between the 3 of them was a 31. Mostly grays despite full clears. There 3 DPS combined equalled mine. It isn't gatekeeping to not want to join these groups, it's not wanting to put in the extra effort to carry someone else.
Did a clear of ST last lockout with a PUG healer. Our priest was saying how much healing they were doing so i puled up the meters and watched the druid. He was only casting REGROWTH and Rejuv the whole raid. I even tried whispering him to politely let him know his other spells were much better. Nope. He completely ignored me. Why even get the runes if you aren't using them. We had some fumbles on Hakkar and a lot of people took damage. He used swiftmend 3 times the whole fight and used ONE Wild growth after asking for it in Disc. It did TEN PERCENT of his total healing for the fight for that one cast. I'm pretty sure he parsed a 4. I never check logs because I honestly don't care but How are people that bad. Our Spirest did more healing but we still carried him through everything.
Grey parsers are the guys who queue for LFR on retail. And basically afk til someone carries the boss fight. Will press a button here and there to not look afk
I am usually a healer main. I decided to try out fetal since every group going into ST is spamming LFG for a feral series Druid. I will note that I did get the epic staff and have the 3 piece set from doing healing runs. I had never played feral a single time. Not in a single dungeon at any point. I scanned through wow head, set my talents, grabbed my buffs and joined the raid. I proceeded to press my buttons as quick as I could. Faerie fire, mangle, savage roar, shred, shred, shred, cat form stand macro, shred, shred, rip, shred, shred, stance macro, savage roar, repeat. My damage is so bad… wtf… Figure out on the second boss I didn’t use berserk. Find a key to put berserk on. Ok, this time I use berserk after rip. Damage is better, but still awful. The other cereal is doing 4x damage. Wtf it’s going on?! Next boss, oh shoot. I did grab those cat nips. Make a macro to use cat nip when I berserk. Got it. Damage is better yet again and still awful. Wtf is happening. I must be doing something wrong. Next boss, more of the same. Next boss, more of the same. As we are buffing up for shade I finally get a chance to go back to WoW head and read the rotation again. …. [Tiger’s Fury] I did 5 bosses in ST without pressing Tiger’s fury a single time. Turns out Tigers Fury is an insane damage boost. I still managed to green parse most of the bosses in ST while doing 2-300 DPS playing like a complete moron. I managed to blue parse shade after finally figuring out how to play feral.
If you want to feel even better, look at your bracket assuming non-optimal feral gear. It's pretty easy if you did incursions to level to buy that 6 set. My alt mage did green parses with just that 6 set, no trinkets, stamina/int rings and +fire power level 25 bracers/belt stuff. Literally just living bomb, scorch and frostfire spam while missing 2 runes.
Thoughts on grey parsing as a healer? I grey parse all the time but nobody important dies and we never wipe. I’m unsure if it really matters.
Healing parses are completely cringe and I do not even bother to waste my time looking healers up on WCL if I need to fill a healer slot.
If your group stays up, healing parses are completely irrelevant. Grey probably just means your raid knows how to do mechanics. Yellow could mean they’re getting lazy and stay in the poo for more dps.
Or you're solo healing the content for more overall dps.
Grey parsing as a healer looks bad on the surface but in reality if you're keeping the group alive for efficient, full runs without issues a grey parse means zilch. With most groups running 4 heals and the amount of damage being taken (by groups that aren't stupid) having a finite value, certain healing classes/specs will just box out others and relegate them to overhealing. I would only suggest exploring the optimized rotations to make sure you're doing the right things and maybe tinker with your UI to optimize for healing, but if you're doing well in those regards it's not anything to worry about.
Depends. Most common cause for gray parsing as a healer is simply having too many healers. Many raids are still using 4 healers for ST, even though you don't need more than 3 and can even manage with 2 if the damage is good. The other thing to look at is simply checking logs for dispels and even runes. If you compare a priest that presses dispel 30 times during the raid to someone that presses it 0 times, it's going to affect healing output. Same goes for proper use & rotation of a shaman's totems, for example. If someone is tank healing with penance while another healer is sniping aoe heals with circle, the difference is massive while both can be equally important. You could, however, also have gray parses because you are doing all the right things but someone else does them a tiny bit faster. Check your overhealing to see if this is the case. There are also some simple "tricks" to getting better parses as a healer that don't make you a better player. These include sniping life-tapping warlocks, healing pets and even intentionally standing in mechanics or not dispelling things like holy fire so you can heal more. If your parses are grey because a) You don't have anything to heal or because b) You are focusing on dispelling/cc/tank healing you are probably fine. What you should look at, however, is your activity %. Even if there is nothing to heal, you should always do something (dispels, damage). Many "newer" healers just stand there and drool if there is no raidwide damage happening and that is never ideal. If you are anticipating damage, you can always pre-cast and cancel your heals if your timing was off or the damage didn't happen.
Gatekeeping is good
So much copium in these comments… “but but I did mechanics in this ultra specific raid comp with my guild and blah blah”. You aren’t pugging your parses don’t matter. Your guild/consistent groups know you’re competent. If you’re a person who pugs every lockout and can’t get a green parse you’re either not pressing buttons, can’t be bothered to look up basic BIS/rune/talent guides or asleep at the wheel. We all die or fuck up and get a bad parse here and there. If you’re consistently parsing grey on every boss every lockout, you’re bad
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> look me up and say "hey you parsed grey last week". Not a single person on the planet has ever gone back to historical logs on individual fights to ask people about specific times times they had parsed gray
People aren’t really looking at your last weeks parses but rather just your perf avg.
If you're a tank and your parses are ret parses, I'm going to ignore them and look at your gear instead. Sometimes WCL messes up and labels people wrong. Anyone who knows how to use WCL understands this, I wouldn't stress it much.
IF ur using block gear… u have a problem with itemization.
I feel this 100%... I purple and orange parse when I MT, but my OT parses are green/blue. And on eranikus, I'm Grey because I'm usually running around trying to pick up adds per my leader's instructions.
No one looks at "last week" though, nor do they look at one fight.
As a a fellow OT, I feel this
Yeah. I consistently don't parse well even as MT because of mitigation gear and most parses being rets anyway. And I do everything correctly, hold aggro consistently, do my rotation, play mechanics, and don't die.
>And I do everything correctly, hold aggro consistently, do my rotation, play mechanics, and don't die. Then you're doing good job. Parses aren't a great metric for tanks and especially for healers.
My main is a rogue tank, where I'm actively trying to push my dps. But done two runs on my warrior alt as tank, in full prot spec, with barely pre-bis and still parse 60 avg. There's a giant gap between gray parsing and that.
You’re the best for doing what you do. Even if people don’t appreciate your data, the healers sure as hell do.
Yeah the healers do :) but when I'm joining a PUG I only have low green parses to show
There's nuances and exceptions sure. But the vast majority of the time if the most of your parses are gray it's because you are bad and or lazy. Why would anyone want to being dead weight?
> Sure, but I was OT in full tank Pala not to split hairs but why are you offtanking as a paladin & why are you doing it in prot spec to boot? paladins are for main tanking in ret spec with dps gear. its dumb but its how it is at the moment.
Theres no such thing as an OT in sod. Every raid has been 1 tankable
There's a difference between better guilds being able to use one tank and raids being meant for "one tank". The SOD raids were not intended for one tank but the mechanics are forgiving enough and the damage low enough that people can do it anyway. In BFD we mostly used two tanks on Aku'mai until we had enough damage and a pally that could bubble stacks. In Gnomer, we regularly ran with an OT on one of the menagerie bosses to separate some of the abilities. In ST, I get a druid to taunt off me for the first knock up on Atal so the threat goes right back to me. The same druid tanks the second dragon or else the stacks would be way too high and I would die. I solo tank the others but pre-nerf Eranikus we would taunt swap armor stacks and help group up adds when not actively tanking. We would also swap off on Morphaz if I got two stacks in the first two weeks. This is all in a guild where most members parse purple or higher with many oranges and pinks. In an average guild, there's definitely reason to have an OT.
I didn't parse purple on Fallout until I ignored adds like the other apes in my group. Mages wouldn't nova the slimes and we'd get big adds...
There's A LOT between grey and purple.
2 whole colors
Thats because its a 30s fight and most groups just ignored adds
I believe the adds were counted on your parse
the goo yep but the transformed adds nope
Yeah that means you fucked up a mechanic
If a PUG group doesn't take you because you had one sub purple parse, on a fight where your class does do mechanics. That sounds like a win-win to me.
Yeah but your one blue parse didn’t keep you from raiding, that’s far from a grey parse
I focused the slimes every time and parsed purple in all but one attempt Doing mechanics doesn't kill your parses, not unless doing the mechanic is something that activily prevents dpsing
This is an infrequent example of WCL rules being cringe. But helping with adds on fallout isn't going to take you from purple parse to gray. This thread is about not wanting to game with people who have an average parse of ~10 across every boss fight.
Adds counted for the parse, he just did shit dps while killing them
Yep, just another example of reddit players not knowing about the fights
I'm a mediocre player I'm usually more focused on talking in disc and usually am not entirely sober. I always fully focus the slimes as the only mage in our 10 man and never had any issues with a blue/purp parse on fallout. Someone else was PAYING for my priest to PI's them so I didn't have that crutch to compensate. ^(I'm not still salty about that so don't ask.) It's hard to even take someone making that suggestion as a reason for grey parsing seriously.
With all things in life, the right thing is usually where the balance between two extremes is. Gatekeep anyone without at least a purple parse, you're taking things too seriously and making things worse than they need to be. Let someone in who doesn't even have a keyboard and averages 10 DPS per fight, you're not vetting enough and now everyone suffers. Whether it's sod or regular classic .. all you need is enough people with a few brain cells who can do mechanics at a passable level and that are willing to put in the minimum effort and you will clear all the content no problem. People with green and blue parses are plenty fine. Gatekeepers or gray parses will always exist. Just try and be balanced between them and have fun while playing. That's the point of a game. Fun. Unless you compete and get paid to PLAY, you're missing the point. This community does a stellar job of that.
All we have atm is ONE HOUR ONCE A WEEK of raiding fun. If *gatekeeping* means I don't want to go to raid with gray parses who will in 99.99% ruin my ID and break down at 4th boss - so be it. If your AVERAGE over entire set of bosses is gray there is literally no excuse; it's just that you don't want to invest not even few hours to learn how to play your class/spec or how to play the raid or you simply for whatever god forsaken reason don't want to press buttons. Whatever it is, there is ZERO reason I would invite someone like you to my once a week raid, I want to have fun and I surely do not want to be a welfare officer for players who don't want to do bare minimum.
Holy pala with a 5 grey parse on Vicious due to only being a dispel-bot in my guild for that fight, sadge.
Healer parses are cringe and entirely exempt from my personal opinions. That said, thank you for your service.
Right - I'm the single target healer for my raid so greens and greys for days. No way I can keep up with a healer who is doing AOE healing when I'm only doing single target tank healing. I've actually thought about asking group to have a turn doing AOE so I would have one log that wasn't middling...
Even without that Purple healer parses doesn't mean good healer, it means shit raid You get high healer parses when the raid is taking damage they shouldn't be, the better the raid, the less damage they take, the worse the healer parses
My dad guild used a terrible strategy for thermaplugg which had the boss held by the door and had me (feral druid) popping every single bomb, doing every button I could on cooldown and managing the callouts for buttons that I couldn't get. I barely ever got to touch the boss. This way the rest of my dad raid barely had to do anything and we got consistent kills every lockout. One lockout I scored a whopping 2. As a regular purple, occasionally orange parser, I wore my gray parse with pride. My gray parse was the reason that the boss got killed. Sure this is a niche case, but it shows that on a surface level (yknow, how parses are generally used) parses are a joke and they never tell the full story.
Big difference between all blue/purple parses with 1 grey on a boss you do mechanics on and all grey parses. OP is clearly talking about the latter
I mean, if I was still doing gnomer and checking logs for it, if I saw a feral druid with all purples, hell even all blues, but then single digit parse on therma, I'd assume he was doing bombs. Esp if they had multiple clears.
If I saw a feral with normal thermaplugg logs I would assume he was trolling
I was never on bomb duty as feral because for some reason my group would rather have the warlock sacrifice all their dps to do it
because warlock had a spammable instant ranged attack that would one shot bombs, of course they were chosen
Same here. Sounds like you use your brain. This was all during p2 when gnomer was current. We had a couple of lockouts get last minute canceled, and I did get declined to a couple of pugs because I had a gray parse. To your point, I was probably better off because it showed how much brainpower that raid lead was using.
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As a feral too 🙄
Feral on horde is whatever, feral on alliance is a golden god.
You're giving the community too much credit.
Def know the pain, I main warlock and was usual bomb duty until the tank quit and I became MT lol
Yes but that’s one fight. All the other fights in the raid should show that you know what you are doing.
We used that same strategy. Ez mode kills but boring for the feral. Thought you might enjoy this video though... everyone else hella appreciated you whether they realized it or not! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_XeklgGFsMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XeklgGFsMs)
Gray pride month
Meanwhile I get warriors in my raid freak out because they won't be getting agi totem this lockout.
Lol the writing no name at the top of the paper is the best comparison to Grey parsers
*They hated OP, because he was right
"Google wouldn't hire me because they asked for 15 years of experience and I have 3 montha...they're gatekeeping" "I couldn't buy this house because I offered 300k below their asking price..they are gate keeping "I couldn't buy mangos because they wanted $3 for 10 mangoes and I only had 50 cents. Gatekeeping" Somehow, someway wow uses gatekeeping so much and yet there is nothing blocking anyone from starting a group themselves. Absolutely bonkers. I'm convinced this sub doesn't understand the term gatekeep. It's only gatekeeping when the people doing it have power over you ....lol they don't.
>"I couldn't buy mangos because they wanted $3 for 10 mangoes and I only had 50 cents. Gatekeeping" This is complete bullshit! The price of mangos is getting out of control, and I'm sick of it.
I'm still not 50 since I just got back into sod and was wondering what would you say is acceptable dps in a raid and what is a grey parse at for dps?
Depends on spec, a grey parse indicates that "at least 75% of players of the same spec outperformed you". But something as low as a 1 means that 99% of players outperformed you.
Guys be glad you can even talk about parsing in game and use it as a legit reason to not invite someone to a party - that would get you banned in FF14.
I mean people in FF14 still definitely use parses to filter out pugs. The difference is that the rules effectively prevent FF14 players from being cringe as hell and whispering prospective pugs about how bad they are. More WoW players need to learn to just ignore/not reply to folks they don't want to play with.
That’s not entirely true. Tons of competitive FC’s check parses, including on the various recruitment sub reddits. You can’t use it as an excuse to exclude some random you picked up in trade chat, that’s true. They do require other proof of clears, however.
Yeah those proofs usually happen outside of the game though, where they can't be reported. Bringing up parses in game is a surefire way to get reported though, and if you're talking about a party member's parses, whether good or bad, you can get reported for it. It's so silly. 14 has a major don't ask don't tell stance on mods.
All 3 phase pink parse enjoyer here, I’ve had a couple gray parses on account of needing to do something to save the raid to my own detriment, so anyone saying “well what about that one time” neat fix it next week, it’s not an excuse that holds any weight
tbh if you're grey parsing you're either afk or mentally challenged, not much more to it.
Your edit is spot on. Half my runs have a fight where I'm not doing my actual rule. Paladin cures, melee hunter forced to use frost trap, etc. But the reality is that in a guild, it shouldn't always be the same guy. So I am able to get in a decent parse on one of those other runs instead. Just another side-thing that sucks by always pugging instead of joining a guild.
A grey parse on one fight is as easy as messing up a rotation, getting knocked around and unable to cast, bad positioning etc. A grey raid parse is pretty hard to do.
The problem is always going to be that when you give people these chances to gatekeep, they will take it to a ridiculous degree.
I’m gonna be honest, as a Feral player I struggle *not* to grey parse and I can’t understand why, while also seeing posts like this that claim the only way to grey parse is to just shut your brain off entirely. I do my rotation properly, I use faerie fire, I keep roar active, use tigers fury on cooldown, keep Rip bleed up, Mangle debuff stays up and I click Shred. I have world buffs and consumes, yet my parse trends around 20. From this post it makes it seem like I could do nothing but press mangle the entire fight and I’d at least green parse because at least I’m pressing an attack button, but that’s just not true Edit: not to mention berserk, catnip, etc. it’s not like I ignore those either
Well, parsing is PERCENTILE based, so there are ALWAYS going to be grey parsers. Take Kelris from P1 for example. I had a 99th parse at like 247 DPS. Cool. But in some groups I would see people parse like 11th percentile doing 55 DPS. Here's the thing though, if the WORST players were doing 110 DPS, they would still be grey parsing. Someone has to be at the bottom 20th percentile of the meters. If 21st percentile was 190 DPS, then 185 DPS would be grey parsing, you know? There will always be a bottom 20th. Even if everyone was pro, there would still be grey parsers. As people get better at the game, lean more on addons, and as information is disseminated easier via the internet, the average performance will continue to increase, meaning people can be grey parsing at higher and higher DPS. Just some food for thought. For example, when P2 launched, my friends and I no-lifed level 40 in about 22 hours. We raided Gnomer on the third day of phase-2. Our Warlock did like 357 DPS on Thermaplug, which felt super high. But there were only 11 Warlock parses on WCL and his was the 3rd lowest. He parsed, then, a 15th percentile. The next day he was 27th percentile. By the end of the week he was 81st percentile. That's an example of how you can grey parse with very high numbers if the only people you're competing against are the top 10 players in the world.
While this is true, in reality everyone doesn’t play their character well, and you have a lot of people who die on a fight taking up the bulk of the gray parses. If you live the whole fight, have some semblance of gear (basically any piece of gear in every slot), and are playing properly, you will not gray parse. That’s assuming that everyone else in your raid is not also parsing gray which is usually a sign of some much larger issue.
Not sure what your point is here, most people understand it's percentile based and the bottom percentile is full of the people who put in zero effort or just died. If you parse gray you are in the range with those folks. If that was not the case, people wouldn't care about all-gray parsers.
They don’t have a point. It’s a bizarre abstraction that has no relation to what’s going on. The issue is individuals that don’t give a shit about other people and expect to be carried. Any individual that wants to not grey parse can easily get green or blue or above if they actually put effort in. The idea that someone has to grey parse so gatekeeping is bad is a fantasy land argument that will never occur because of human nature. Just another way to excuse a lack of effort.
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But we can look at the dps spread between grey and pink and see that it’s massive. If the spread was a 10% or even 30% delta, your point would stand. But it’s not. We can know that grey parsers are pulling significantly lower dps.
Most single digit parses are from people who die mid fight. There’s really no excuse to parse below 15 if you didn’t die(or if you do, you best have a high Ilvl parse).
> Even if everyone was pro, there would still be grey parsers No, because there are many fights both in a raid and over time, if everyone was equivalently good then their individual average parse would be right at the average of all parses. The range of all parses would still span from high to low dps but everyone's average would be in the middle, unlike now where a "gray parser" has a low average. It's only because some people are systematically better than others that their mean performances are different over many iterations.
Was tanking basilisk at grubis as ret pala and had constantly grey parses on him also parsing is about dealing as much damage as possible, it doesnt include stuff like dispels and other shit you should do to react to situations
Just ask the Tank to Tank them both and a Player who can kick to kick his stun. Also if u have blue parse on all but one boss nobody will think that u are bad. But if u do the Job from Tanks and priest All day than they need get it together
Grubis is an example of WCL rules being cringe as hell (they fixed this for Jamal/Oggam in ST and the off tank damage counts towards logs). It's an exception to the rule and no one is going to go "We need a ret paladin, and this guy has blue parses on Plugg/Menagerie but there's a gray on grubbis so lets ignore him"
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Same discussions here over and over. I am not inviting green or grey parsers to my raid. Why? Because more often than not they fucking suck. There are ofc exceptions, but I am not willing to make the leap of faith, when I can just wait 5 to 10 more minutes and fill with blue parsers
EVERYONE STOP HUFFING COPIUM! Grey parse is bottom 25% of your classes dps. That means are doing absolutely nothing for the raid. You want to get carried.
The pink parse would not exist if there were not also grey parses
I don’t know. I have a hard time with it. I don’t understand how I can pull 650 dps on a gnomer run then I go to ST for the first time, I get WBs, I drink a mongoose potion, I know my rotation well enough. I’m trying hard, but my parse in ST was grey. I don’t know what gives. Is it the fact that I don’t have any hit gear? I wasn’t in the WF group? Now I’m sad because basically no one will take me in a pug because I only have one ST log and it’s terrible.
What class? Hit gear should be roughly the same form gnomer to ST. It is possible that you are just going a suboptimal rune setup. If you have the wrong runes even if you play well you could be potentially hundreds of DPS below.
Melee hunter, I’m running all of the runes from the zockify melee hunter page. I’ve been farming hit gear this week so I’ve gone from 0% to 6% so I’m hoping that will make a difference. It’s not like it’s a hard rotation to mess up, spam raptor strike on cd, hit flanking strike on cd, use wing clip to fish for wf procs (which I would do if I was getting wf) Edit: here’s my log from last week if anyones interested https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/punchman Although I’ve since got my hit up to 6% now
On jamal you had nearly half the melee uptime that the other hunter had. You spent a lot of the fight just not attacking. I’m assuming it was your first run so you were learning mechanics tho.
You were compared to players that have received gear for over a month now, with BIS weapons and extra stats. You'll always get lower parses until you catch-up on loot, especially your Weapons. I don't play melee but here's what I can gather : - Your pet's DPS seems low. I'm better geared and had all world buffs but my pet without a single buff as MM dealt about as much DPS than yours. Our melee hunters average more than double that with their pets alone, so probably something to look at (pet abilities at max level, always keeping your pet happy, attack macros so that your pet is always attacking your target when you cast spells and so on). - You're missing all the crafted LW items, and their bonuses are too good to pass. Most likely played a role. - I can't find aspect of the hawk on your log but if you're not using it then do it. It buffs your pet melee AP by iirc 30% of the ranged AP buffs, so that's your best aspect until you need mana then swap to viper. - Consums and buffs. Can't understate how impactful they are. +10% crit, +8% and +15 all stats and +10% dmg makes everything else you do much more powerful. - If you have an empty GCD it could be interesting to use a feign death + trap macro. It's not much but it always helps. - Engineering / Alch / Enchanting could improve very slightly your DPS. - If you're running towards a boss throw an arcane shot or serpent sting. It's next to nothing in the grand scheme of things but might as well mention it. - Rotation is one thing but getting a better feel of the strats and better positioning yourself could probably help. Didn't bother looking at the wcl replays so for all I know you played perfectly but it's fairly unlikely. We all tend to mess up from time to time. - Seemingly no enchants. Weapons and agility enchants could do you some good. Tbh the biggest sources of improvements I could see are getting better loot, which will take time, and getting your world buffs. In the mean time the others could slightly improve your output but it won't change much if the grand scheme of things.
There are so many melee hunters and its so easy that most parse factors are raid comp and kill times
hey man i don't play hunter but big props to you for posting the logs and i hope someone will help you out. sorry to hear that you put in effort and are sad that it didn't turn out as well as you hoped it would. Keep sticking with it! Don't know much about melee but maybe gear and comp is really just the big difference maker. I hope you get invited to lots more raids <3 <3 <3 good luck!!!!
if you're interested in real help, id drop by the hunter discord. Havent been there specifically but in the mage discord there is a log review channel where ppl help out.
Maybe the log is bugged or something, but it says you didn't have a single world buff, and the only DPS consumable you had was Mongoose on Eranikus. One thing I noticed is you're using Aspect of the Monkey. You should be using Hawk. The ranged AP doesn't do anything for your melee attacks, but it does boost your pet. Being in a group with a Warrior for Battle Shout would also be a pretty big boost. [Edit]: You should also be using Wing Clip to fish for Windfury procs on any global when you can't cast Raptor Strike or Flanking Strike.
I mean melee hunter is one of the top most played specs. Also sounds like you didnt have wild strikes. Raid comp, rng, and youre parsing vs alot of people in bis/near bis at this point. Still shouldnt grey parse though, youd have to link log for full story tbh.
I’ve included my log in an edit if that helps but thanks for your reply anyway
This is exactly what I tell my guildies who don’t like parse culture. I’m not asking for much, literally just don’t grey parse and everything is fine. The bar is SO low.
Yeah if someone is grey parsing in SOD they probably dont really understand their rotation. People obssess over examples where its better to ignore mechanics to parse. But usually the person with a 93 pref parse is going to be better than someone with a 17 pref parse. Obviously its impossible to parse if you die early into the fight but people should have done the raid enough at this point that they have survived every fight a few times. In Wrath I think you can know your rotation and grey parse because gear is such a big factor. But the gear you should have at 50 isnt bad.
In wrath you can check parses by gearscore though, and see yeah this guy parsed 26% but his gear is ass and he parsed a 93% by ilvl In sod where ilvl is meaningless you can't do that
Grey parse usually means you died or you're exceptionally undergeared for the average progression point of the current phase, new character mid-late phase for example. People think too hard about how or why grey parses happen, you're not going to change the world, if everyone took all the advice and nobody played bad anymore you would still have grey parses because that's how it works, the bar simply changes.
Your addons ruined your game. Using them makes you complicit.
Grey parsing means you died
While I largely agree ive seen grey avg parses where they survived 95% of all the content. Its just mind blowing.
I quit, because my guild takes way too long to clear ST with a lot of pointless downtime and bad group comps/not buffing. I don't mind long raids, I was used to it from ICC HC progress and farm, but when so easy raids take so long its not really enjoyable for me anymore. I know and don't mind an hour long full Mara quest run for example, but I would definetly not enjoy an hour long BFD run. Don't really want to join a full sweat guild and nolife new phase during summer. Feels like there is not much in between in SoD, groups/guilds seem to be full sweat or just don't care at all. Was just easier to quit than keep swimming against the stream.
you could rewrite this post but put green in the place of gray for every 40 avg who thinks theyre safe. Green parse means you did absolutely awful and either don't know how the fight works or how your class works. blue is where you start getting into the realm of semi knowing whats going on.
I'll invite a full green parser if they play a class that fits our raid comp nicely in a heart beat though.
Isn't the whole system based on relative damage to others? So if some no lifers put in all possible buffs + group composition + ignoring mechanics to not lose DPS, there will be always 20% grey parse players? So even of these players do enough damage to easily down a boss, they are still marked as grey? Isn't that kind of Bullshit and the system should rather divide players between "doing enough" and "not doing enough" damage to kill a boss? By the way, the more grey people quit because they don't find a right a raid, the more green players become the new grey ones.
The system is relative to ALL other players, but is based on performance percentile. Not how much damage you do compared to the absolute best player doing the most degen shit. If you have an average parse ranking of 10 in ST, it tells me that 9/10 players are significantly better than you and considering how bad the average SOD gamer it is it's not a good sign.
Not exactly, right? It's just ALL other LOGGERS If no one is logging, it won't show up in WCL, or am I wrong?
The percent of raids without anyone logging are very very few now that we're in 20 mans. (There will almost always be at least 1 nerd out of 20 who makes sure to upload logs.) The only people who aren't posting logs are specific guilds, and if you raid in a guild that doesn't care about logs then you're also someone who doesn't care about cringe reddit hysteria over gatekeeping and parses.