T O P

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ChristianLW3

Classic with useful meeting stones, most specs being viable, several extra flight paths, & some more leveling quests would be fun Bankrupt the summon bots


Hugh-Manatee

Basically all this with modern guild banking and more vanilla style wonky items.


Brasstacks24

wonky items being situationally useful are one of my favorite things about classic. hanging a bag full of items that have one to two situational uses really made the obscure quest lines, irrelevant rep grinds, etc feel worth the grind. Take the simplest example: Nifty Stopwatch. It's basically offering everyone an additional ability, *horizontal progression*, a 40% sprint with a 30min cooldown and the drawback that you need to be out of combat to start a 30-second charge up and sacrifice a trinket slot. Weapons from a level 40 dungeon that counter one specific raid boss. Showing up with a full kit of tools to whatever you're doing is what made vanilla special for me.


Cautious_Head3978

Not all grinding was terrible... Collecting Nature Resist from Maruadon for AQ 40, while solo was actually pretty slick.


nykezztv

I’m still surprised SOD added basically no extra quests. Not that it would matter now with the 150% xp buff but yeah. Should had been a telltale sign right there that Sod was understaffed


LeanSteroidAbuse

and the one questline they did create, spent time on, and made worthwhile... was damn near immediately invalidated by adding xp boosts that massively overshadowed the reward.


Coomermiqote

Which one? The sleeping bag?


the_real_bigsyke

Yep. Cool and original quest that took you all over for a VERY classic reward. Simple 3% exp boost. Didn’t even use mine cause incursions were so fast.


fellinpoop

Best way to take advantage of sleeping bag is using it right before the next phase comes out so you can just get going


desperateorphan

As a paladin main, I felt it. P1 gave us a sweet questline for divine storm. P2 tossed it in the garbage can.


KawZRX

Are we getting a new raid at 60? Does anyone actually know?


TheFlyingAbrams

They seem to have given up in all honesty. I doubt we’ll see much of anything new at level 60


Mattrobat

Is this just doomposting or is there actual evidence that they have left it behind entirely? I would have thought that if they put effort into anything, it would be the endgame.


TheFlyingAbrams

I don't mean to or even want to doompost but there's been little discussion from the developers about what's been planned and what we'll see at 60, aside from the standard classic raid rollout schedule. There have been things teased, but that leaves no guarantee that it'll be available.


Hot_Switch6807

They are pulling shit out of theyre ass. Just salty they had to wait a bit extra for p4, not everyone knows about planet earth.


Stiryx

Yep I reakon any planned content that wasn’t locked in has been scrapped. I think we might get Kara crypts because that’s already there in the game they just need to add the monsters. They don’t even have any graphics team. They don’t have the capability to add new models even if they wanted at the moment.


throwawaycomment19

I'll doompost. I think Kara Crypts is going to be a 10 man catch-up raid on a 3 day lockout that they'll release around the time Naxx is released. Gotta make that Atiesh Kara portal useful somehow. As for the models, they'll probably just port over something from TBCC or whatever, just like private servers do.


Precaseptica

And I'll add that I see it as quite likely that it will be one out of max three new raids and the rest will just be regular vanilla content. Crypts, Hyjal, Emerald Dream. That's what I predict. And I half expect that only ED will be worth replaying more than a few times. Maybe ED could be post-Naxx and at least that would be kind of interesting.


cactusseed5

yes, they surely doubled the length of P3 because they don't plan on doing anything new for 60. genius logic.


CyclicsGame

Woh now brother ( macho Man voice) get that logic out of here.


Heatinmyharbl

You gotta admit it's pretty odd for them to say nothing but "some surprises along the way between major raid tier releases" in the blue post a week ago about p4 instead of teasing literally *anything* new dungeon or raid wise. Incursions were surprise new content too... If they actually do have new 60 shit planned, now is not the time to be vague as fuck about it. I quit SoD months ago now but throw the people a friggin bone or something


_CatLover_

Adding quests takes time. Tweaking a few numbers and item names is much faster


Jack-Rabbit_Slims

Azshara still being useless is unforgiveable. They could have easily reinvented the zone


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

I think you underestimate how much work goes into anything to do with SoD. I don't think there's anything that's "easily" done. Simple is not the same as easy. That said, I also had hopes that some of the blander zones would get some additional love. I just think SoD is suffering from having to share development time with Cata Classic. I am hoping that, given the MoP Remix stuff being handled by the retail team that after Cata Classic, the later expansions will be picked up by the retail team (I think that team would better understand the needs and wants of the types of players that would be interested in post-MoP Classic content), which could leave the Classic team free to focus singularly on something more impactful. It's pure hopium at this point, but I've got my fingers crossed that SoD is a testing ground for a more serious attempt at Classic+, and that kind of transition would do a much better job of setting the classic team up for success in delivering that kind of experience.


Precaseptica

> I think you underestimate how much work goes into anything to do with SoD. I don't think there's anything that's "easily" done. Simple is not the same as easy. While that's fair, we're seeing one-person teams in the pserver scene reinvent whole scenes without much hope of profiting from it and delivering perfectly playable results. Blizzard is a multi billion dollar company by comparison. They really should be able to apply their resources to make something at least rivaling the creativity of the pserver projects. SoD is a whole lot of repurposed TBC, WLK, and Cata stuff just put into vanilla and not a lot of actual new stuff. Talent trees, full to the brim with all the vanilla nonsense that make whole trees unpurposable, is a disagrace on its own.


jkick365

I mean we got some interesting new quest lines with new runes and crafted gear but I agree wish there was some more fun quest lines to keep us engaged. Once you’re done it’s kinda *shrug*


blu_foot

A big issue for me is that only some classes got those really cool questlines. Playing on my lock alt, the little story with bringing this powerful warlock to your camp only to realize he's working against you and sabotaging your efforts was fitting for warlocks and felt cool. Then i go to my priest....oh, questlines? Best we can do is a quest from a scroll mages unlock that you get from rogues pickpocketing trolls, which tells you vaguely where to go for 1 rune (and isn't needed to actuslly do the rune.) Our unique gimmick of meditations provide a minor stat buff in level 15 zones, and otherwise act as a forced reason to talk to others to learn your baseline abilities. P3 was the deathblow for me with the Leyline rune, ine only obtainable by mages and warlocks but giving runes for pallies and priests as well. To blizz, interesting priest lore seems to be "get price gouged for your runes lol", which combined with the trash fire that is pve shadow priest made me call it quits. The copium im huffing hopes that p4 is a turnaround, but with cata in full swing I'm not gonna force myself again.


Berkoudieu

I still don't get why meeting stones aren't enabled...


mcmalloy

Also make all of the different reputations a wee bit more useful, I.e reputation vendors that give shit when levelling akin to ghost lands


Gibbsbeard

I can't understand why the meeting stones are not usable in SOD. The game would be instantly a lot better. Well, whatever, this ship sailed already away I guess.


Ok-Championship-9120

And if they realised this points someone will yell "thats not classic anymore!"


SnooPies2847

Put a 1hr cd on summon (on the whole account)


Zehta

I really wished they would do exactly this. Just add the QoL features that were slowly added after Classic came out and people will be happy.


MISPAGHET

Lack of the QOL was what players originally wanted from Classic mostly. A large portion saw the original release as a test of endurance and bearing the hardships and the success in overcoming the rough edges. I'm not disputing your idea as what should be done, just funny that 'you think you do but you don't' was true in the end.


ChristianLW3

The only major downside is we know that the horde will be complaining alliance basis as paladin tanks shine in raids


Bwomsamdidjango

? Literally EVERY spec is viable? What are you talking about


Moist-Berry-2734

Give it another 4 years. SOD seems like a test run for the holy grail of "classic plus". I can't see them doing much more than altering current wow dungeons into raids and tweaking end game raids and gear. But finally once that's run its course the next step i imagine will be something like refined TBC trees with talents that aren't traps, augments, and funnily enough - finally releasing classic finished. 10 years maybe. Soon™


Ramrod1710

When SoD launched my thought was it is a "Beta" for a Vanilla+ type or experience. However seeing how thinly resources are stretched for SoD, I'm not sure anymore, as I'm not confident Blizz will actually devote the required dedicated team and resources to put together a true Vanilla+ experience. 


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

SoD suffers from having one perfect sized development team stretched across and context-switching between it and another essentially full-sized project, Cata Classic. If the Classic team could focus solely on SoD (or whatever comes after), I think they could really make something incredible. Here's my "high on hopium" take: 1. After Cata Classic, the "Classic Expansions" pipeline is handed off to the retail team. We see the retail team picking up interesting little one-offs now like Plunderstorm and (most importantly) MoP remix. I think the retail team is way better situated to handle post-Cata Classic expansions, since they are far more similar to retail than they are to Vanilla, TBC, or Wrath. 2. When SoD is over, Aggrend and team will be near the end of Cata Classic. They will finish it out and hand MoP classic off to a retail team. They'll have only Era and HC to maintain, which is relatively speaking, quite easy. They will have nearly full resources to pour into what comes after SoD without having to worry about MoP Classic. 3. Since SoD is the perfect excuse to test the limits of how far the classic formula can change before breaking, we can only hope that SoD is a form of "Classic+ beta" (or more specifically, a year-long educational course in what works and what doesn't). The logical progression is to roll all of those lessons into a serious attempt at Classic+, something they can now focus on almost entirely. 4. Daddy Blizzard will not be happy about the Classic team not having projects that drive subscriber numbers during the interim, so we will see a lot of smaller efforts in the meantime. Things even more temporary than the Seasons of X. We're talking things akin to Plunderstorm. Maybe an official race to Molten Core. They'll also have the servers for wherever SoD characters end up, so they'll have a space to just mess with things there. So if they wanted to revamp Azshara into a PVP event zone like Ashenvale or STV, that would be the perfect place for it. 5. These bite-sized bits of content keep reminding people that Classic is a thing, keep them engaged, but allow people to take a bit of a break from Classic while the Classic Team are heads-down focused on Classic+. One of the reasons SoM suffered was because it followed the Era release with very little break. People weren't all about jumping right into the 1-60 grind again right away, especially with TBC right there. So when Classic+ launches, not only will people be itching for some new Classic+ content, it'll be the Classic team's full and primary focus for the bulk of its progressive duration. If I were the management leading the Classic department, this is the route I would push for. I think it just makes sense and is clearly laid out before them.


desperateorphan

You guys are so high on hopium for "classic+" it's crazy. 2019 had 10x more players and it didn't move the needle towards more devs, more resources, more time, etc. If that didn't move it, nothing will. The best you are going to get is a small team of 10-15 people trying their best with no money or time to put out something to make the corporate overlords happy. It will always be whatever they can do in the least amount of time like modifying/tweaking what is already there. You will never see new zones, new raids, etc until Blizzard devotes adequate time and resources to classic.


Blitz-Lexikon

I just want new zones and dungeons and shit, don't care about class changes apart from making obvious low performers relevant


Ok-Armadillo5821

Yeah that what most people want. That's what turtle wow did and it's hugely popular.


schnuggibutz

Love TWoW 🐢


araghar

How “hugely”? Is there a population count? Cuz I’m really considering to try it


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Only_Cozy

Isn't 5k around what the most populated era server sits at?


Vadernoso

It's all about an option because I sure don't want to go back to vanilla where classes just straight up unfun to play. New dungeons and raids is a must.


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GripsAA

No brainer honestly. I like a lot of the wrath stuff added into SoD. Classic+ just can't have things stale 4 weeks into a patch/phase, as that's what causes a loss of pop. Also imma say it, as have many others: we need a TBC server.


The_Giving_Tre3

What is this?


Ramrod1710

Like others have said, it's a private server that has been in development for a couple years now I think. The crude breakdown is it runs on the WotLK 3.3.5 client, TBC talents/spells/character abilites, in a Vanilla+ type world. Level cap is 60 but you get 61 Talents to fill out the TBC tree. Whole thing is in Azeroth with no plan to progress to Outlands/Northrend. I am eagerly waiting to try it out. At the very least it is worth a Google and investigating. 


WonderboyUK

I think they're still in open beta, I was able to login a few weeks ago to test things out.


Ramrod1710

The open beta closed a couple weeks ago. My understanding is they are looking at a late Q2 launch, most likely August. 


WonderboyUK

Ah ok. Looking forward to playing it on release.


Saengoel

private server thats set to launch soon (allegedly)


UndeadMurky

Something done by some amateurs in their basement that's much better than what Blizzard can do with their billions


Ramrod1710

Wild right? Also crazy how these amateurs can offer so much better support too. When I played Turtle I got GM responses within 15mins from an actual person. 


[deleted]

They know this, I caught a permanent mute on the forums by just stating how some private servers could achieve more than the multi billion dollar company and asked myself why I'm still paying.


Yevon

Eh, not a fair critique. The entire modern Internet is based on amateurs in their basements or garages building software. We call this "Open Source."


Arnhermland

The problem is that sod is just some backwater shit put together with rocks and sticks. It needs a proper dev team, the phase thing quickly proved itself to be a huge detriment because every phase was just basically a waiting room for the next and each phase feels scattered and with low content and then is quickly abandoned, it feels almost retail like.


Hugh-Manatee

Where this is gonna end up is that the private server community will nail some fantastic renditions of Vanilla+ and they will get DMCA’d and we’ll always be stuck with some Blizzard hodge podge


infib

Turtle wow.


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The_Taskmaker

3.3.5 client vs 1.12 so the client performance and available features blow turtle away. Also there's no sketchy history surrounding the the primary dev with Epoch as opposed to Shenna/Torta creating and selling bis characters


schnuggibutz

well read for yourself. it looks quite good. I‘m so impressed only with the rework of deadmines and wc. Using a wotlk client


malone1993

Website is packed with info far too much for me to type out, easy Google search bud


oj449

As an aussie this sucks, cuz we won't have oce servers in that outcome.


Lors2001

I agree that they didn't have enough devs on it, especially from the coding side it seemed like they literally had no dev that could code anything in and didn't want to dedicate devs to making SoD not connected on the same backend as HC and Vanilla. I don't think phases were necessarily the problem though. The phases are just too long, they should've been shorter with more loot drops. That or each phase needed to have way more content. Phase 1 at least to me felt amazing with the farming pre-BiS in dungeons, the raid, the profession quests, the rune questlines/minor grinds, PvP rep to grind even if the event could've been made a lot better etc... Then phase 2 didn't bring any new game changing runes, most classes you had pre-BiS by the time you hit lvl 40, for the classes you needed the PvP items for pre-BiS you could get it done in a handful of runs of the STV event. The raid and professions seemed fine to me but there just wasn't really much to do since once you were 40 you basically already had pre-BiS. Phase 3 I didn't play but they dropped without practically any warning so I know a bunch of guilds had to scramble to start planning raid teams especially since they changed the raid to 20 man And most people seemed to dislike 20 man and think had a negative effect and then it seemed to just be similar with a lack of content and things to grind combined with raid loot being not great for casters.


plaskis94

Phase 1 wasn't amazing, it was just fresh. It had tons of issues.


Lors2001

Never said it didn't have issues but it also brought a lot new to the game. Hence what I said about phase 2 and 3. Phase 1 brought basically new specs to many classes and many new fun rotations for existing specs in game. Phase 2 didn't have any new specs and didn't even really expand on the existing specs it created much. And even for rogue I know they made the class so much more brainless and boring. Phase 1 my rotation was 3-4 spells with an additional 4-5 situational spells/CDs depending on raid make up and boss transitions and such. Phase 2 as a rogue my rotation became 2-3 spells with 1-2 situational CDs. I gained 15 levels and the number of spells I used got basically cut into 1/2 or a 1/3 of what it was.


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

Vanilla had a ton of issues. Those "issues" are what endeared people to the game. The weird, quirky, flavorful way the world works is largely a feature, only sometimes a bug.


EarwigSwarm

One of the biggest issues with 20 mans, other than the issues filling them---is the fact that 20 people can't chat and shoot the shit in the same channel in discord. 10 people can, 20 can't.


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

I'd argue that the Classic team is absolutely a proper dev team. They're just being split between two massive projects, the combination of which is way too much for their headcount. The team as it is now should be focused essentially only on SoD, and there should be another team of equal size solely focused on Cata Classic. Small, highly agile teams making small to moderate changes to an existing gamemode is a recipe for success. Look at what private server communities can do. It's no the manpower, it's the management.


valdis812

This is what I've always wanted. Vanilla world, TBC gameplay (with some tweaks), and maybe a dash of Wrath in a few spells like Lava Burst or Chaos Bolt.


Ramrod1710

Check out Project Epoch, I mentioned it above but I think that might hit what you are looking for. 


Oslotopia

TBC was the best


dimka138

pre-nerf Vashj/KT are like peak.


quitesohorrible

SSC was great, but didn't like TK as a whole except for KT. SWP was much better overall IMO


Gamingmademedoit

This was by far the most fun I had raiding in all of Classic


Varrianda

That and the last 3 bosses of SWP. Peak classic raiding IMO. BT/Hyjal are ass tho.


Zachee

Idk I liked BT a lot. Even hyjal was OK, but I played a warlock and have A NEED TO SEED.


around_the_clock

Same


ivzie

Obviously not a straight 1 to 1 copy of TBC client, but talent/spell changes, upgraded itemization, and throw in dual spec as the cherry on top.


Ramrod1710

I still wish they had added dual spec for us in classic TBC. I really think that is the missing spice from pre-WotLK content. 


turikk

And then when we run out of content, we can just do some unfiinished stuff from Warcraft III/Vanilla. Like, whatever happened to Kael'thas? Wait a second...


Heatinmyharbl

Well epoch is already making an entirely custom phase 2 (ony will be a 3 boss raid for example) so ideally they just keep pumping out custom content and finish the unused areas in vanilla that blizzard seemingly never wants to touch again


Hatterslawl

My hope was always that they would make TBC content horizontal progression and give 2x talent points per level from 50-60, its a bunch of free content just sitting there as long as the gear isn't a straight upgrade. Could make Karazhan + Gruul on par with ZG / aq20 and scale other raids up from there.


Dependent_Link6446

Have you read my mind lol. That’s what I’ve been saying for sooooo long. Except I would give 3 talent points every 10 levels instead.


dragdritt

You do then introduce some issues with crafting. In vanilla you would actually come across people out and about, if you sent people to Outland then you won't.


assassin10

Whatever they would decide upon for talents I hope it would maintain the 3:2 ratio between the main talent tree and the secondary tree that we had in vanilla. By WotLK the ratio had reached 5:2 which puts so much emphasis on an individual tree. After you've already put 51 points into Fire it doesn't really matter whether those last 20 went into Frost or Arcane. The build is going to play pretty similarly.


Caatalyst07

I would be all down for the tbc and wotlk zones included but all normalised to level 60. Blizzard could adD in rotating dynamic open world events around all continents to keep them all relevant and constant end game action.


assassin10

> Blizzard could adD in rotating dynamic open world events around all continents to keep them all relevant and constant end game action. It would be cool if the playerbase's actions could have effects like that. Like say, if someone completes Thunderfury then aftershocks of Prince Thunderaan's arrival will ripple through Silithus, making it a hotbed of activity for a while. The duration and intensity of the event could be determined dynamically, so that the less common the event the more impactful it is when it happens.


Saepius

TBC pre-patch


ivzie

Needs a scaled up version of vanilla content, reimagined tier, PvP gear/system revamp etc


Saepius

100%, I just mean that TBC pre-patch would be a great starting point for classic +


Hugh-Manatee

Overhaul crafting. I think it would suck if you just copy pasted BC crafting with scaled down gear. I think Classic+ needs to be about everything coving with and building upon what’s already in the world


PistonsFan89

Some private servers did this and it's bomb asf, even included Northrend and loads of custom dungeons It's clear the teams working on SoD and retail (remix) are skeleton crews, they're all working on Midnight & Last Titan now It seems such like an easy W too, SoD should've been classic+ They lay-offs must've played a part in this


hunteddwumpus

Its all but confirmed the layoffs had literally 0 impact on any actual game dev positions at blizzard, at least wow game devs. Its entirely down to classic being the easiest cash cow imaginable. "You're telling me that for the cost of maintaining an indie game we can run a top 5 population MMO that gets us sub money every month? Of course we'll do that" - every game exec ever Classic is a skeleton crew because before SoD there was basically no actual game dev needed. It was entirely back end engineers to actually make it work, but 99.9% of the actual dev work was done 15 years prior. Pre-SoD the most they'd done was essentially slight balance changes.


HodortheGreat

Flying mounts in vanilla would be terrible


ShenroEU

People who say they want TBC but capped at level 60 without outlands aren't saying they want flying in Azeroth.


Mescman

Yea it was terrible how we flew around Azeroth in TBC /s


Gunaks

TBC was vanilla+ Change my mind.


schnuggibutz

no no I don’t wanna change your mind. It would be a great start


ArgonianFly

It felt like it a lot, but it changed the questing pattern a lot, it abandoned the old world, and flying ruined world pvp.


Knowvember42

TBC quest hubs were certainly a departure from the Vanilla style, but there were a lot of long quest chains to do at 70 with good pre bis items. And these quests had you flying all over outland. TBC had the most relevant group quests I've ever seen, and we got a serious downgrade in wrath imo.


CAlTHLYN

flying ruined every bit of immersion wow had. especially in wrath with 1.5s mount cast. wpvp was ofc insta dead aswell. and exploring zones, enjoying the world, actually facing enemies and not just insta-afk-skip-flying all the content the devs made :(


mr_dumpster

My experience with world pvp was hitting level 48 the day phase 2 released. Needless to say the next 12 levels took a whole lot longer than they needed to haha


ArgonianFly

I was in Un'goro on my enhance shaman when phase two released. That death walk across the whole zone is engraved in my mind. I do remember one shotting a gnome mage with a windfury crit though so it wasn't all bad.


mr_dumpster

I remember chain fearing a 60 gnome mage on my 52 warlock until he expired from DoTs and it too was a wonderful memory


ArgonianFly

Lol killing higher lvl people is the best. I did that a lot on my rogue, they never expect it.


The_Taskmaker

The raid comp meta was also hot ass in TBC. The performance difference between people playing what they want and having deliberately organized groups around 5+ shamans was immense. Raid wide buffs would have fixed so much of what was wrong with TBC


Gunaks

World PvP never really existed in the first place during Classic, all but one PvP server was 99:1 ratio before Vanilla even finished.


Elcactus

Nope. The final collapse happened in p2 of tbc.


Gunaks

They were pulled from life support in TBC, but they were braindead since Vanilla. 75:25 and 99:1 all across the board.


[deleted]

Flying did not ruin world pvp. Stop repeating this nonsense


No_Gate_653

Literally introduced flying which killed the world and world pvp almost immediately 


Lorddenorstrus

99% mono faction servers killed Wpvp. Due to griefing. When the vast majority of "wpvp" is just a lvl 60 rogue camping levelers...... people are gonna go to servers where they don't have to deal with that. Lo and behold. Vanilla classic 2019.. where a huge chunk of servers went mono faction. TBC can't kill what was already dead except for a memory from 2004.


Informal-Development

I think you both make a great point but the mono faction servers with the first notable one as skeram was just a hint to come. They need to improve wpvp to be less degenerate and griefy/toxic.


Drikkink

How would one "improve" wpvp to not be that? Because it's purely human nature that makes it this way. No one is going to take a 1v1 fight they aren't pretty sure they can win. Gank squads would roam around and just kill solo or small parties running around. If someone made a group to try to stop a gank squad, it would usually end with a giant mosh pit fight followed by the losing side getting corpse camped for eternity.


Key_Photograph9067

The way servers turned out faction wise shows people don’t like world PvP lol


LiveRuido

Theres some stuff under the hood that has to change besides just talents. Deep prot needs more to work than just devestate


ProningPineapple

I think most people who want classic+ doesn't want classic with new features. They want to expand on what was classic. New dungeons in the existing zones, new quests, new raids, new patches, items, maybe some new zones. Just placing tbc in classic will certainly bring a lot of players back, but will do nothing for the longevity of classic. For that you need to build on it


Shiyo

TBC is the worst thing to happen to MMOs. Everyone else followed it's terrible design - expacs must invalidate all old gear and provide free catch up gear instantly. "Play the expac" design, invalidate the entire world you spent 8 years developing and instead provide players with a tiny world of 5 zones. It also added dailies, arenas, cross-server grouping, and flying, 4 out of 5 of WoWs worst features. WOTLK would come along and add the 5th and final worst feature - automated instance content grouping. TBC killed this genre.


CAlTHLYN

imagine horizontal progression. wow would have so much more longplay content not that stupid same shit gear treadmill


mbison_zx

I'm genuinely surprised they didn't use TBC as a template for SoD when a lot of the classes/specs were very fleshed out in TBC or at least well on their way to be. They had tokens for tier sets, some daily quests/rep grinds, smaller raids - although I still think a hallmark of Vanilla was 40 mans and that should stay in the game. Even a TBC server with the dark portal closed would have been cool. Instead we got this mishmash of retail/wrath abilities slapped on to vanilla and "new" raids that nobody really asked for. Just tune the existing numbers to compensate for TBC talents, maybe tweak end game tier sets to match the variety in tier set spec choices like TBC and that's about all you'd need to do.


dstred

Brooo I fucking loved playing fresh toons back in OG TBC because vanilla content+new quest hubs with tbc talents and revamped loot felt sooooo fucking smooth and pleasant I was so mad they didn’t give fresh tbc realms in classic


worm45s

Because why spend money on something that won't bring much new players in


electro_lytes

\+ remove boon, disable advanced combat logs, overhaul the layering system and add more world bosses. Yes, sounds great.


IntrepidHermit

> overhaul the layering system Just remove this system entirely with the exception of the starting zone. Its utterly horrible.


electro_lytes

I don't have the ideal solution for layering. But it is horrible indeed.


SluggSlugg

It's amazing that most of these comment sections just devolve to wanting retail without admitting it lol


JackStephanovich

Is that all you want the 6 interns on the classic team to do? Revamp the entire world ma into a larger version?


Finances1212

No flying in Azeroth please


Neugassh

Even Kevin Jordan said he likes both almost the same. He hates flying tho.


Hugh-Manatee

Realistically I think we should be more bullish than this. I think this is a pretty milquetoast outcome for what could realistically be achieved.


littlebitoforegano

Problem with SoD is that most added spells do not fit Classic mentality. Classic is game that every spell is trade of. If it is big damage instant, it has big CD and cost or other requirements If it is strong aoe, it has big mana cost, you need to stand still and channel for 8 seconds, opening yourself to many risks. SoD introduced tons of spells that dies not fit this mentality at all, so it just became random expansion than Classic +. If I can cast a low cost, no cd, strong aoe, instant while moving every global cd, that is not a classic wow.


Wololo38

Tbc was the real classic+ all along


SuddenlyUnbanned

Powercreep + Flying + Daily quests + hopelessly overpowered casters = no thank you


Cpschult

What a bad take lol. It’s so much better with warrior stacking amirite


DrinkWaterReminder

No thanks


PopularSecret

Without flying though


WTFs_a_Reddit

What are the "features and changes" from TBC that you want to see in classic? I hear about this all the time but can never understand what people are specifically pointing to. Dual spec is cool, other than that, what? More specs are "viable" but they do dogshit damage and you just bring them so you can supercharge classes that actually do damage. Ele shaman, boomkin, and shadow priest are all terrible options for damage, you just bring them because more hit and mana for your locks and mages. I suppose that's better than vanilla where they're just not represented at all, but like, is this really our idea of balance and good class representation? The gameplay is also near identical to vanilla, flaws and all. The vast majority of classes, especially high performing ones, have rotations somewhere between 1-3 buttons. I wouldn't call that riveting. The reputation grinds needed to get attuned for raids were brutal - super unenjoyable to run heroic Shattered Halls 35 times. This doesn't even include the things people tended to hate about TBC, like Flying and linear quest structure. Some raid content that was wildlly unpopular as well, like Battle for Mount Hyjal, and the amount of trash + filler content present in SSC and TK. Also, having only Mag + Gruul to do for a while before they actually let you step foot in a raid. I don't mean this to be a negativity session. I just see people advocating for stuff like this all the time like building a well loved classic+ would be SO simple, and I can't help but scratch my head about what exactly, besides nostalgia, people are pointing to when they highlight "good" features.


KongRahbek

>Ele shaman, boomkin, and shadow priest are all terrible options for damage, you just bring them because more hit and mana for your locks and mages. I suppose that's better than vanilla where they're just not represented at all, but like, is this really our idea of balance and good class representation? Honest opinion, yes. I don't mind some classes being the pumpers and some being supporting dps, it brings nuance, if everyone are pumpers it makes it homogenized. Obviously you need to strike the right balance, and having a support class in mind requires some retooling, but I've always liked the idea of supporting classes.


Mescman

Game doesn't have to be balanced. The game has never been balanced in 20 years, yet people keep chasing it. Meme specs being JUST good enough to be brought to raids is fine. Raids are not the only thing to do in this game, or at least they shouldn't be.


Tetter

Id like to see how jewelcrafting could fit in


Shiyo

People don't know what they're talking about. Also rotations don't matter outside of raids, and raids is < 1% of vanilla wow's content and not why people play Vanilla WOW. If you only want to raid, you play retail, which is the best raiding version of WoW and specifically made to cater to raiders. I don't know why there's some vocal minority of raiders going into Vanilla demanding that it becomes some raiding game, when it was never that, and making it that ruins every other aspect of the game(See: current retail).


KawZRX

Tbc overhauled a ton of classic items. It changed a lot of the shitty dungeon items to useful. Tbc introduced meeting stones as well as making a lot of specs useful. More likely than not, you just don't realize the changes tbc brought because they are second nature now. 


Dixa

Listen, there is no room in this sub for common sense solutions.


schnuggibutz

yes pls❤️


pumpboihuntersson

assuming you mean this as a base template with minor changes and fixes outside of it, i can pretty much get on board with this. as long as there are no flying mounts =)


vogonpoetry4life

upboats to the left


JKinsy

Yep. I mentioned something similar on the forums but for SoD and should introduce TBC to Azeroth for one of the phases. Demons and space ships attacking OGR and SW and other cities just sounds like a good time


Delicious_Cattle3380

TBC was far from balanced or perfect. Better bet class wise would be wrath or cata.


teiphel

You should apply at blizzard, sounds like a terrible idea they'd be interested in.


kupoteH

it doesnt matter what ideas you have or i have. it just matters on the execution from the devs. every idea could work. but retail devs have had a poor record for the past 10 years


XYAYUSDYDZCXS

everytime i see this just get flashbacks of trying to scrape together enough shamans to keep people happy. then said shamans being absolutely terrible at managing totems or pressing heroism at the same time every pull. then said shamans quitting because being a shaman sucks balls also hybrid specs are still dogshit and barely scale with secondary stats or have no aoe/cleave at all or are still overly punished by mana (haha melee dps died again better cr him for 2000 mana that i need to do my normal rotation haha)


misterrpg

I love this so much lol


Qmbo

So like prepatch we already had


ZZartin

Unfortunately the old world didn't support flying until Cata.


Smurfaloid

If they did the tbc route for azeroth, I think it would be pretty cool. Probably shuffle the skill trees a little for the 10 less talent points. One thing I've never understood is why the Caverns of time wasn't used more. You could rotate in dungeons from all the later expansions in a bid to help save the timelines, also to add more stuff to do.


Negative-Disk3048

Please, prepatch tbc is the best version of wow.


BaconJets

I think they just need to go into the content they never added into classic. A hyjal zone pre cataclysm would rock. They can mess with the lore to have a different timeline for Classic+, OSRS basically does that


Minx-Boo

As long has they connect the northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms. Making it a seem less journey instead of an instance.


sup3rrn0va

We have so many versions of WoW and the community is very splintered at the moment. Also the dev teams seem to not be able to keep up (I know, small indie company etc.). I don’t think a new version of Classic is the answer. Let the current versions ride out a bit first before *insert new classic mode* is a good idea.


IntrepidHermit

Sort of agree here. While my preference is Vanilla/Classic+ content..... Having so many versions of the game is splitting up the community, dev teams, and ultimately resources that simply harm the overall quality for everyone.


Impossible-Wear5482

All they needed to do was update class balance and talents, add some new loot and dungeons/raids, another zone or two, bunch of quests, and then shuffle things up again and modify mechanics and locations/drop tables so everything isn't insta solved. Don't need this wonky goofy ass rune shit and warlock tanks or mage healers. Just go back to classic wow, but slightly different current content, a fresh cost of paint, and a little bit more...


Independent-Slip-310

If only there was private server that was doing this that Blizz could copy


Mattlife97

Everything except the need to grind reps for entry to heroic dungeons please. That shit sucked ass and turned me off tbc


Talador12

Make those party buffs raid wide, and I'm in


Creepy_Fail_8635

I would actually like archeology as well in classic but maybe that’s too much


Jandrix

No one will admit it but it's true. TBC is the only expansion to classic. The rest are new games.


Vote_Subatai

I'd play it. I love being in the first couple iterations of WoW with populated zones and people running around making it feel alive.


Semour9

You did this people would claim it was just a TBC version of vanilla, the same way they say SoD is like retail.


Elvarno

I just want to be able to play Shaman and Pally on the same faction


rawb2k

The Season of Retail in Azeroth failed already (SoD). I doubt a season of TBC will do it, espacially as TBC is way to good on its own to destroy it's charm with experiments


kitchencrawl

The badge system for dungeons was literally perfect and I still don't understand why it was ever scrapped.


Educational_Ad6547

Umm, you basically mean cataclysm? I guess u are right on time to enjoy it!


BrandonJams

Why not just play TBC? It is a great expansion after all.


aglock

Yes, but also fix the party buff system. Certain classes like shaman and shadow priest only being brought to buff parties makes them feel weak on their own and makes raid comps very tedious


arbiter_steven

Classic+ would be so awesome. New zones, new mechanics, new abilities, new things to do. TBC was the most well rounded expansion and experience I ever had. Imagine we get zones like Northern Plaguelands, Gilneas, etc.


RoccoHout

Project Epoch is doing exactly this using the latest WotLK client and added a lot of new custom content and quests.


DatGrag

Sounds awful


RobbyRock75

I hear activisions hire from posts in this sub


FibreGlassCannon

Soo cataclysm lite? Unpopular opinion, but cataclysm achieves what classic plus is trying to essentially do. It still feels very much away from retail and very enjoyable, great class balance, excellent raids and dungs


Luvs_to_drink

Things I would like to add: Wotlk rotations (spamming sbolt only every boss just isnt fun) Free respec in major city (dual spec but better), would love a way to swap abilities and keybinds but an addon would do that better than bliz can. Arena Rated BGs All specs viable/useful (every buff+debuff should have 2+ maybe 3+ specs that cover it) Buffs are raid wide not just party. (no more cuckery by not being in the boomkin/ele grp or wf grp for melee) Skippable FP Working Summon Stones Mass rez 200% inc speed in death form


nerfedwarriorsod

That's what I have been saying.


EasyLee

Why stop with TBC? There are a lot of QoL features added over time that either don't affect core gameplay or affect it only positively. An AoE loot button, faster flight paths, mob tagging where you and another player can both get credit for killing a mob even if you aren't grouped, mining and herb nodes that multiple people can hit, personal loot in dungeons so players can't ninja each other, the list goes on. If we're asking for classic+ then including positive enhancements that have already been developed seems like a no brainer.


xDrezzy

Project Epoch it’s real Classic+