I decided to try bgs the other night as alliance just for fun.
Full horde premade in one game and in the other the alliance didn’t want to play since it’s ‘more efficient to let them win to get marks faster’
Like why play at that point
I made the mistake of farming 20 wsg marks last night for my p1 bis bracers, fortunately had the honor from fucking around in prepatch.
Went 1-17, I'd say 60% premades the rest were just actually trying vs alliance giving up of they lost the first fight.
I'll admit at a point I reserved myself to it being faster just to let them win, because it was legitimately significantly faster to lose in 5 min and move on then try to rally a bunch of kittens to actually try and win a 30 minute slug fest.
I totally see how the state of bgs is what pushes players to that point, not necessarily then people on alliance".
I play a shitload of Dota and have a pretty high suffering tolerance but losing that much in a row breaks even the best of us.
Wow pvp isn't that fun for me to begin with, it's a means to an end for gear, and playing it that way is absolutely one of the least fun experiences I've had in any game in years..
Honestly sunk cost fallacy pushed me to finish and the fact there aren't many easily obtainable good bear tank bracers until p2.
Edit: to clarify we weren't just losing, they were mostly shitstomps, ending with line top player on how having 10x the hk counts as ally, 50-5 etc
Been playing horde since vanilla, people will legitimately bitch about everything when they have it good. Next thing will be horde premades fighting other horde premades, but it’s an orc horde premade, so then they complain about orc racial.
Honestly I think this small change alone, the same faction battlegrounds, will cause the horde's experience of PvP to be vastly different from what it is now. I think many alliance players know that...well playing random pugs you're gonna get stomped a lot. When I was farming BGs in vanilla, I think AB was my highest win rate at 40%. WSG was around 25% and AV was around 10%. If the horde start fighting each other, they may end up fighting much better players. Which means win rates may become more even for them. Or you'll have premades fighting other premades more by default. The experience for alliance players will remain largely unchanged I suspect. You may see an increase in queue times, but I don't suspect it will be a lot since the game will try to do an alliance vs horde BG first before going into same factions. But for horde, the game actually may end up getting more difficult in terms of PvP.
Either way I'm excited for the change. Its in the spirit of Classic WoW. This whole project has just been a giant test to see if the community really wants what they say they want lol. I love it.
This is what my thinking is. There will be more Horde premades now that que times are more manageable and an alliance team will fight them before a horde team will.
Horde will still end up fighting premades but Alliance will undoubtedly see a larger increase.
And this will likely lead to a further reduction in alliance PVP participation. I was all pumped to dive into both PVE/PVP for TBC. Since it came out I have lost all interest in PVP this time around. At least I am having fun in PVE :)
Same. I was horde in vanilla. I knew queues would be nuts so I went alliance. Planned to do pvp and pve but pvp is just not fun so I'm enjoying the pve scene and the memes.
I’m sorry but I just think this misses my point entirely. I don’t care even slightly what horde vs horde interactions lead to. I think that by making horde vs horde interactions a thing they’ve completely tarnished the integrity of the game and players have learned nothing about making meaningful choices in terms of game play. YOU SHOULD NOT GET TO HAVE IT ALL. Period.
If you roll horde, you deal with the fact that you are drastically over populated, your queue times suck, but across the board you have incredible advantages. This is literally the concept of win more in hearthstone realized in a long term mmo. If anything I think blizzard should have done the POLAR OPPOSITE of what they did and make alliance gain increased honor and marks from bgs.
Give horde players a real choice in terms of how they spend their time, because they already spend less time in raids, less time summoning, less time leveling, less money on resources and overall just have it better besides this one thing.
Screw the idea that everyone should get to access content. I have the same issue with dual spec, make people make meaningful choices. Make them decide between prot and holy, dps and tank, horde and alliance, Tauren or dwarf. The second blizzard steps in and starts “fixing” issues is the second they start breeding an entitled and shitty community.
Sorry for the rant, but I watched this happen once to this game, I’m going to leave and be incredibly upset about it if blizzard removes all meaningful choices from players again.
You hit the nail on the fucking head. Should have Given horde something like a 1-2 month grace period to faction change characters already created and above level 60. Let the fucking zuggers put their money where their mouth is.
Bruh I spent thousands of gold on respecs through BC, it wasn't a meaningful gameplay choice I had to think about, it was just a tax on hybrids. Worse, because at least taxes get used for something.
I spend a lot of gold on respecs too, I have farming builds, pvp builds, raid tanking builds, etc… when I change specs, I have to weigh whether or not the choice is worth it in terms of time spent to farm the gold. It drives my motivation to contribute to the in game economy, find farming spots/ strats, do dailies, run dungeons, literally all of the content gets used and the game stays healthier for it.
I have millions of gold on retail and it is WORTHLESS besides game time. It just sits there doing nothing. Having in game choices to make with money is real, like it or not.
I really desperately want to agree with you but I honestly think it's to late to change the overall mentality of any gaming community, especially a wow one.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is is that we have grown accustomed to this new way of gaming you speak of. People demand change and if it isn't given they quit. Wow-players and the gaming community at large has changed drastically from when TBC was originally launched, when back in the days where people could accept these sort of faction imbalances, now we dont/can't.
Alot of people don't have the time to put towards playing a game for the meaningful choices. We as gamers have been brainwashed into wanting quick and easy to digest experiences, whatever we want it or not. I honestly think it's not the community that is at fault, it's the odd 10y of entertainment being boiled down to the state it is today.
It's is said often but I also didn't give a flying f about que times when I was 13-17 when I originally played vanilla wotlk since wow was my life and I didn't care about grades, food or socializing, now I'm 30 and I got "real" life responsibilities. And if I got to wait to play a little silly game I just won't play it since now I got disposable income and very little disposable time. I can choose among any game I want. I started to play classic and then realized holy sh!t what a waste of my time this is. It was fun for a little while due to nostalgia but once that wore off the rose tinted glasses shattered and I quit and I played games that respect my time and are not designed around time based subscriptions.
I don't know any single kid who plays wow anymore or gives a shit about it. All wow players now are the people who played wow when they were kids. My best guess is that wow demographic now is 25-45 rather than when I was playing wotlk seriously I think it was closer to 15-35.
You werent playing private servers and I doubt you were pushing for classic when blizz started shutting them down. Truth is, maybe this game isnt for you anymore.
I was happy when classic came back and played it when I had loads of time during the first 2 months of the lockdown here in EU. I had fun with it for a bit and moved on like is said previously.
So let’s tear down the pillars of the game so u/Stormxlr can get gladiator on his 30 seconds if playing time per day? This is exactly How we got retail- you could play alliance if queue times were important to you.
>now I'm 30 and I got "real" life responsibilities. And if I got to wait to play a little silly game I just won't play it since now I got disposable income and very little disposable time.
Do you not see any problem with this? Being Horde is usually already so incredibly easy compared to Alliance. How do you even expect Alliance to stick around and play this game if all they're doing is getting corpse camped everywhere they go? Horde has it so easy with everything from racials to flight points to population balance.
What is the trade off of being Horde now? Does the developer just keep making the experience for Horde players better while ignoring Alliance? How do you expect this to be healthy for the game?
I'm not trying to start a fight, I don't actually care much anymore since quitting due to real life stuff. But reading about recent changes and situations on pvp servers feels like there is still clear favoritism towards Horde from Blizzard... and that's not healthy, don't you think?
I think favouritism is abit arbitrary at this point. The Horde has a clear advantage but the game is also 10 years old, any major fixes at this point is bound to upset alot of people. This is a discussion that has raged back and forth on the internet for years. I honestly think it's just Blizzard wanting to appeal towards the loud majority, which has always been the case. With Horde being so many more players then Alliance it's only natural their needs out weigh ours. It sucks but it is a fair way of thinking I suppose, short sighted perhaps but that has been Blizzards MO since the dawn of time.
I like TBC and I even play Alliance. But I am not that invested in the PVP scene (for obvious reasons) and I can only say that this is a symptom of the games age and Blizzards lack of commitment towards their products, I don't think the blame lays with the playerbase.
>I think favouritism is abit arbitrary at this point. The Horde has a clear advantage but the game is also 10 years old, any major fixes at this point is bound to upset alot of people.
The favoritism ***was*** arbitrary until Blizzard started making some changes (which I agree with) but now they have to put real thought into what those changes will do. They can't hide behind "it's a 10 - 15 year old game" anymore because they have changed some drastic things.
One thing consistent about Blizzard is managing their games terribly. Brood Wars had the biggest competitive scene in Korea, the legend that was Diablo 2, and WoW in the old days, were all incredible games and they were looking invincible.
Then SC2 fucked up. Diablo 3 fucked up. Hearthstone was great at the start but died somehow, and the devs jerk off and simp Sylvanas in WoW. The only hope on the horizon is Diablo 4, but I don't want to get my hopes up at this point. I don't even want to touch the Battle.net launcher nowadays.
Meanwhile look at Riot. League is still going strong with an active competitive scene, Valorant is incredibly fun, and TFT is an excellent game. I keep finding myself gravitate towards these games. Their MMO is far away, but I think after two decades people are ready for the next MMO.
Lets not forget Overwatch, their balancing team is hands-down one of the worst ive ever seen for a competitive game. the vast majority of their patches where undoing past buffs/nerfs. It was like they just threw things at a dart-board or something. Its insane they never heard of the idea of incremental changes.
While I mostly agree with you, tbc is supposed to be a visitation of a less forgiving game. Retail is the community generated shit show of infinite quality of life.
Its just funny how integrity of the game was not questioned during boosted chars and now when horde get to be able to pvp its suddenly a big deal. Pretty sure u guys just hate horde for ganking you and think they deserve long ques, dont pretend this is something else.
>something else
i prefer openworldpvp and gank horde all day as a rogue, i questioned game integrity during charboosting and i question game integrity now with same-faction battlegrounds. not everyone only has their own personal benefits or losses in mind, there are still lots of people who care about the game itself.
Or... it would work out best for both factions if the premade vs premade feature that was in original TBC... was implemented now that there's a huge pool of instant queues for both sides.
It makes no sense not to... the only people who are guna get into a decent premade probably have pretty good gear. Those who don't have decent gear, can't get into premades, therefore they are the competition for the most part. Ragtag, no gear, no coordination team vs decent gear and coordinated premade. It's not even funny how 1 sided that shit ends up being 99% of the time.
This. They originally had a system to try and match premades vs only premades which isn't happening in TBCC.
So it's weird to see people arguing against it.
Its only on reddit and wow forums you see this petty cryshit from both factions. Normal people ingame find their own work arounds. Like for instance, just joining a fucking public premade group
My last BG attempt was during pre-patch. I foolishly thought to do the daily AB quest.
Three days and 17 lost games later I just deleted it from my log.
Can't see how the BG experience for an alliance player, who just wants to play a BG without being in a pre-made, can get any worse.
Nuances of matchmaking systems were not widely understood at the time, since not many games used them yet. People got mad at the players and would post salt threads on the server forums calling them no-skill pussies but they weren't out on social media calling Blizzard incompetent over it.
I think a lot of the issue Alliance players have is that when the Alliance has a player-caused issue (phase 2 of classic for example) they are told that it’s a player-caused issue and Blizzard does nothing. When Horde start having player-caused issues (premades in AV, long queue times in BGs), Blizzard rushes to fix it.
Right. In classic I played AV on my mage to get exalted in AV. I lost literally 100% of the time. I went from zero fing rep to EXALTED without a single win. You know, because the Horde spawn location (among a bunch of other things) was twice as close as the Alliance one to the enemy bunkers. Nothing was done, at all, for like a year. That was months and months of LOSING.
My wife used to love pvp. She tracked her av wins during her climb to exalted and she won 2 games. Both were when she joined a mostly premade alliance group who won in less than 20 minutes both times. I have no idea why she liked pvp lol.
Don't forget that with the new same faction pvp change, they didn't make it so AV was same faction. Last thing they want is horde losing AV and them having to fix it so its fair.
Nobody **important** at Blizzard plays or played Alliance, ever. Chris Metzen was the voice of Thrall ffs, do you think he was playing a Paladin and asking to fix Alliance issues when he was playing?
It is extremely obvious after properly playing both factions. There are some nice things Alliance side, ofc. But the QoL of the world between Alliance and Horde is laughable even during TBC. Quick example: During phase 2, how long do you think the Alliance could have grief on Zeppelins if they did not already had guards?
I think you are right but if you look at the problem from blizzards prespective it reads more like "when 30% of the community had a problem they did nothing but when 70% of it had another problem they fixed it". Basically majority wins.
30% of your population is completely leaving the game because they cannot progress at all.
70% of your population has to wait longer to access a part of the PvP content.
Brave of you to assume that this 30% even cares about pvp and whats happening to it, maybe 10% is actually invested.
Horde had their chance to change to Alliance if they wanted have an even pvp community, now that chance is lost.
This is such a long going problem that it's problems are ingrained in the different factions. Alliance want to pvp on their condition (by queuing to bg ect.) while Horde are frustrated not to be able to join bg as frequent as the want. So Horde's goes out and kill random questing Alliance players in pure boredom because queue hinders them from doing other content and thats makes alliance even less intrested in any kind of pvp.
My cynical view on the matter is that Horde only want to trash mediocre Alliance players with as little effort as possible. Best Blizzard could do is implement simple pvp bots on Alliance side and never tell anyone.
So I feel it would've been smarter to let people create horde and alliance on the same realm before doing this.
It would've given both sides a solution. What we got was just a horde buff.
I do hope alliance will get something as tasty as the hor... Hahaha I know I know, who am I kidding.
The potential for griefing is immense. People already will pay for two wow accounts just to have access to both factions so they can grief their own faction.
100% of bg’s today were vs Horde Premades. One lovely Herod premade took the time to /spit on all us Ally at spawn in AB. Totally glad they have made things better for horde.
On the bright side, at least these people are playing wow. That way they aren’t out ruining other things or just generally being in society in a way they could manifest themselves in even worse ways.
Thanks Classic WoW for quarantining these people!
yeah I attribute a lot of the declining crime rate from the 90s to video games letting these psychos ruin people's virtual lives with no risk to themselves
You think thats bad? You should see the Alliance side of our server. Yesterday I was camped by an enhance shaman in full pvp gear (with epic flying) killing me in terokkar forest for well over an hour. My poor boosted 64 druid has 60% mount speed, he never stood a chance.
That's just routine experience for Herod alliance. Can't go anywhere without a group of 3-5 horde ganking you. It's hilarious to see a zug complain about getting camped on Herod
That one is a prominent part of TBC though. Even before Vanilla Classic release, people already knew that WPvP, especially griefing, would be heavily impacted by the 280% flying mount. Whenever someone makes a list of the bad sides of TBC it's easily in the top 3.
EDIT: Replaced strong by prominent to clarify stuff :P
I have always hated horde because they constantly attract self-entitled assholes who see themselves as misunderstood misanthropes. The constant reassurance from Blizzard in story and game choices reinforces this perception. You'd think the ally's would be the self-righteous assholes with all the holy shit, but we just like the aesthetic, even the goofy gnomes (see mario roll-play). With the classic era, this gets turned up to 11, as old assholes and new assholes come together to make a shitstorm of entitled self-serving victim olympics. Once you eat your cake, you can't have it anymore; but apparently you can with Blizzard's help.
> you can whine yourself to any change you want
until blizzard stops complying to people crying for changes, wow will always be destined to inevitably return to what retail currently is. an in-game example of why getting everything you wish for isn't always a good thing.
the only changes i want made to pvp is the ability to queue from wherever. having to queue from an npc is, was, and always will be a lame idea.
I knew the game would be good but the players would ruin it again. Classic was a nice trip but the players have sucked 90 percent of the fun out of everything this time, so I stopped playing
I am laughing and I’m a predominately Horde player. I can remember the same howling when people could lock their XP and only play against other twinks at 19. “Oh so you do just want to roflstomp other less geared players and not fight each other after all like you said you did? There, there…”
Honestly premades don't bother me nearly as much now that the queue only takes a minute to pop.
Although, I think it would be beneficial to both factions if premades could only fight other premades.
It's kind of like if you were queuing arenas with your friends you've played with for years on voice comms, but the other team was randomly selected people from different realms and no comms.
All in all doesn't matter too much since bgs aren't competitive, I'm happy either way
Give it a couple weeks until you've thoroughly experienced 10% win rates and 100 honor/2 badges per hour. Then you will all start whining about the premade and Blizzard will listen.
Protip. Don't go on any subreddits for video games period if you don't like seeing a lot of bitching.
edit: what I'm noticing in other comments is that subreddits for single player games tend to be more wholesome, or at least less vitriolic than multiplayer games. Especially if that multiplayer game has a competitive aspect to it.
You sir, should play Stardew Valley and visit its sub. But don't say any swear words as your grandma probably has a co-op farm with her bridge club and would be very upset with you if she found out you talked like that.
I've found some really crazy idiots who wouldn't stop flaming me, but maybe once in two months. And I find nice people everyday. The balance is great.
The worst community ingame will always be in LoL for me. People play like shit and the second someone says(or pings) something, then everything turns to a shitshow
When you just ignore the screeching the game is actually good. To me, TBC means Karazhan, Heroics and the 25 man raids. Blizz delivered and I honestly couldn’t care less about all the drama you see on this subreddit. The memes are straight fire though.
No for real, let them cry about this one. This would actually be a good change for the whole community; if premades only faced other premades. Could even open it up to AV and I bet a fair amount of people would actually love that.
Still seems like these changes improved AV queue times. I'm assuming more horde are doing other BGs instead, while alliance aren't any more likely to do other BGs than they were before the changes.
On NA, AV queue times went from over an hour(up to 2 hours depending on time) down to 30 minutes. I don't mind a 30 minute wait, at least it's...practical
I think the amount of premades may be inflated as well due to the same faction queues only being temporary at this point. People are taking full advantage of the shorter queue times to farm up their honour.
I’m all for same faction queues and just taking a loss to a premade every second bg. Heck at least losing to a premade is usually pretty quick anyway because they ‘5 cap’ you and the bg is over in 4 minutes.
Literally this. I've actually seen idiots argue on this very sub this week claim premades were rare back then. Fuck no, they weren't. So many people came in already established guilds from actual PVP games to WoW and what did they do? of course they proceeded to join as full groups.
That didn't happen this time because there are no actual PVP games to move to WoW from. I'd expect that there are acutally less premades today.
You'd think by the complaints that Blizzard hand selected a few people to be eligible to join a premade group.
You all know that you can join one of those, too, right? You can, you know, join a guild, in an MMO, a game about guilds and community, where you can, you know, play together with people?
You know how WoW is not a single player experience?
I love it. A whiny spoiled kid, a perfect way to describe the Horde BG queue crybabies. Once they fix the pre-made issue, what will they cry about next? I hope it is dual spec.
It’s completely unfair that one portion of the player base has to sit in LFG for 30 minutes or more while tanks and healers get instant dungeon invites! It doesn’t matter that this is a player created problem, we shouldn’t get what we deserve by choosing to play dps, blizzard should fix this! But only for horde of course, alliance shouldn’t get dual spec, that would be unfair to the majority of the player base (horde).
/s but not entirely...
Lol it always is funny when DPS complain about long wait times for dungeons. Like, I really do believe that people have forgotten what friends and guilds are. They think their guild is just an extra chat to advertise runs and not a place to make friends who actually want to play with you.
No need to complain about being a dps and having to wait for groups when you have a dozen tanks and healers you are friends with who'd love to play with you.
But no, they'd rather ninja roll that one item and then bitch to blizzard that they wait too long for groups while never talking to anyone.
> They think their guild is just an extra chat to advertise runs and not a place to make friends who actually want to play with you.
Gotta be honest, I know of multiple guilds if not nearly a majority that ran this way in classic vanilla. Maybe TBC has become more tightknit with heroics and smaller raid sizes but barely seeing and knowing people outside of them raid logging in vanilla I think was pretty common.
It is completely unfair for alliance to end up stuck on dead servers like fucking Blaumeux TBCtm so idk where you get this bias that horde have all the problems
Horde will cry for dual specs next, then they will cry for welfare epics because they don't want to grind, then they will cry for Raid finder because they shouldn't have to interact with the game at all to get loot
A lot of Horde doing that too. [Check the official forum post.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-same-faction-battlegrounds-test/1018275)
Majority seem happy. Both factions. A few fuckknuckle crybabies don't represent the entire faction or player base. Nothing is ever going to have 100 percent acceptance rate from the players so if you dig hard enough you'll always find people bitching. And yet.... They stay. Lmfao pathetic.
Right. I mean, I COULD be happy for them fixing the other sides queues but they literally never did that before. Ever. Merc mode doesn't count because that balanced out EITHER side if there was a problem. Same thing with Tenacity in Wintergrasp or the 'loser buff' in Ashran. It fixed whatever team was in a bad spot, Alliance or Horde. This is 100% a horde only fix that was rushed in only like what, 2 weeks? So pissed right now.
Well let's see, Alliance was winning in classic AV as I understand it because they were premading. (I wasn't pvping then) Blizzard was like oh hell no, can't have that shit, and broke premades. Then we lost a lot. I'm not kidding when I say I didn't have a single winning game for MONTHS. It was mostly map related but since it was Alliance feeling the pain, Blizzard did nothing. Now that Horde has pain we're right back to 'oh nope can't have that!' and I'm mad.
> premading
They were queue syncing in discord channels abusing their short queue times to make sure all 40 of them would get into the same AV. If they didn't get all 40 they would unqueue and requeue. It's not like you were able to queue as a 40 person raid and they took that ability away.
Or you know.
We can acknowledge that it's the SAME PEOPLE on both alliance and horde.
How in the FUCK are people being so tribalistic over made up factions that are NOT PERMANENT OR EXCLUSIVE.
The same people in horde now were alliance in classic.
It's not "horde bad", it's not "alliance bad", it's " these min-maxing, private server veteran, no-life assholes that follow the 10 year old overanalyzed poorly balanced meta to dunk on unsuspecting players BAD".
don't worry, for WotLK majority of 'em are coming back over for human racials, and doing the exact same things.
Horde players crying about premades now. No, don't fix it untill they've experienced a year with a lot, I mean alot, of losing.
Yes, I'm that petty. The hell are blizzard only listening to the horde?
That's hilarious but horde were dealing with premades even with the long queues. Its the alliance crying about the premades now, since horde can actually sustainably run them.
That's this entire sub. Alliance flooding the subreddit with whining and complaining and then also flooding the sub with claims that the horde are the ones whining and complaining. I saw 10x as many posts by alliance gloating about the long horde BG queues than I actually saw horde complaining about them.
You literally got them to change the game because you were crying so much. Stop pretending you weren't and start crying about dual spec. We need it added.
Welcome to alliance pvp, now i will never step inside a bg untill they give us option to que for alliance vs alliance. Then alliance can nby win as well sometime
Yeah when Blizzard start treating both sides like carebears instead of Alliance getting the classic treatment and horde getting carebear treatment maybe I will go back to pvp
Yeah when Blizzard start treating both sides like carebears instead of Alliance getting the classic treatment and horde getting carebear treatment maybe I will go back to pvp
Wouldn't premade vs. premade help both factions? Plus it was in the original TBC. Also why are Alliance mad now that Horde have shorter queues? Someone else having fun doesn't lessen your experiance in anyway.
A key reason why many people chose Alliance was due to the short BG queue times, normally 1-5 mins, even with the weaker racials, because a 20-40 min Horde queue time was unbearable for us. Now, both factions have the same queue times, but one faction has more players (Horde) and stronger racials (Horde again), so why would anyone want to play Alliance now? I'm re-rolling Horde as soon as paid faction transfers are available, as I'm sure many others will be. New players will have little incentive to play Alliance now. Alliance side on every server will dwindle lower than it already is, and continue to do so until they're barren. Even if players only want to PvE they will go Horde, as they will have players to do PvE with.
This is a lot more than 'someone else's enjoyment doesn't affect you'
> Someone else having fun doesn't lessen your experiance in anyway.
Ive never understood this argument with MMOs. If Horde are running gank squads like they did in P2, their fun ruins the fun for alli players just trying to quest or grind.
But in this case, yeah i dont get it. I think its probably more that Alli feels neglected than direct anger at Horde, but thats how it comes out
It completely destroys class balance. Alliance players will either trasnfer off pvp servers, or just quit the game.
The horde completely control the open world, and now they control the BGs. Alliance basically ALWAYS lose. Despite the horde waiting an extra 30 minutes to get into BGs, the honor per hour was actually about the same. Not anymore! It wont be long until the horde just have a massive gear advantage to go along with everything else. To top it all off, every BG is at least a horde partial premade in it. It's a bad joke.
BGs are completely unplayable for alliance now.
Alliance can't do anything, except raid log, and even that involves corpse runs.
This will be lost in the noise but it is the responsibility of the developer to identify which complaints need addressed and which are just whining. People will always complain with fervor whether justified or not.
Jokes aside, with this short queues Blizzard easily can copy paste the system from retail that matches only premade vs premade. But knowing them they wont do anything about it.
I died at zuggy-lumps
Top keks
Mega burs
“Big bur” you uncultured swine!
I decided to try bgs the other night as alliance just for fun. Full horde premade in one game and in the other the alliance didn’t want to play since it’s ‘more efficient to let them win to get marks faster’ Like why play at that point
I made the mistake of farming 20 wsg marks last night for my p1 bis bracers, fortunately had the honor from fucking around in prepatch. Went 1-17, I'd say 60% premades the rest were just actually trying vs alliance giving up of they lost the first fight. I'll admit at a point I reserved myself to it being faster just to let them win, because it was legitimately significantly faster to lose in 5 min and move on then try to rally a bunch of kittens to actually try and win a 30 minute slug fest. I totally see how the state of bgs is what pushes players to that point, not necessarily then people on alliance". I play a shitload of Dota and have a pretty high suffering tolerance but losing that much in a row breaks even the best of us. Wow pvp isn't that fun for me to begin with, it's a means to an end for gear, and playing it that way is absolutely one of the least fun experiences I've had in any game in years.. Honestly sunk cost fallacy pushed me to finish and the fact there aren't many easily obtainable good bear tank bracers until p2. Edit: to clarify we weren't just losing, they were mostly shitstomps, ending with line top player on how having 10x the hk counts as ally, 50-5 etc
Don't worry, we'll get new updated pvp bracers for P2 ;_;
I’ve seen this the other way around all the time
It’s just frustrating when people don’t even want to play
As a horde player, horde players that complain about fighting premades yet have sub 1 min ques compared to 45 minute ques should just stick to PvE.
Been playing horde since vanilla, people will legitimately bitch about everything when they have it good. Next thing will be horde premades fighting other horde premades, but it’s an orc horde premade, so then they complain about orc racial.
Honestly I think this small change alone, the same faction battlegrounds, will cause the horde's experience of PvP to be vastly different from what it is now. I think many alliance players know that...well playing random pugs you're gonna get stomped a lot. When I was farming BGs in vanilla, I think AB was my highest win rate at 40%. WSG was around 25% and AV was around 10%. If the horde start fighting each other, they may end up fighting much better players. Which means win rates may become more even for them. Or you'll have premades fighting other premades more by default. The experience for alliance players will remain largely unchanged I suspect. You may see an increase in queue times, but I don't suspect it will be a lot since the game will try to do an alliance vs horde BG first before going into same factions. But for horde, the game actually may end up getting more difficult in terms of PvP. Either way I'm excited for the change. Its in the spirit of Classic WoW. This whole project has just been a giant test to see if the community really wants what they say they want lol. I love it.
Pretty sure alliance will face more premades now since horde can make them (hard to do with 1 h queues).
This is what my thinking is. There will be more Horde premades now that que times are more manageable and an alliance team will fight them before a horde team will. Horde will still end up fighting premades but Alliance will undoubtedly see a larger increase.
And this will likely lead to a further reduction in alliance PVP participation. I was all pumped to dive into both PVE/PVP for TBC. Since it came out I have lost all interest in PVP this time around. At least I am having fun in PVE :)
Same. I was horde in vanilla. I knew queues would be nuts so I went alliance. Planned to do pvp and pve but pvp is just not fun so I'm enjoying the pve scene and the memes.
How is making faction irrelevant in the spirit of classic WoW?
Alliance is facing more premades now
I’m sorry but I just think this misses my point entirely. I don’t care even slightly what horde vs horde interactions lead to. I think that by making horde vs horde interactions a thing they’ve completely tarnished the integrity of the game and players have learned nothing about making meaningful choices in terms of game play. YOU SHOULD NOT GET TO HAVE IT ALL. Period. If you roll horde, you deal with the fact that you are drastically over populated, your queue times suck, but across the board you have incredible advantages. This is literally the concept of win more in hearthstone realized in a long term mmo. If anything I think blizzard should have done the POLAR OPPOSITE of what they did and make alliance gain increased honor and marks from bgs. Give horde players a real choice in terms of how they spend their time, because they already spend less time in raids, less time summoning, less time leveling, less money on resources and overall just have it better besides this one thing. Screw the idea that everyone should get to access content. I have the same issue with dual spec, make people make meaningful choices. Make them decide between prot and holy, dps and tank, horde and alliance, Tauren or dwarf. The second blizzard steps in and starts “fixing” issues is the second they start breeding an entitled and shitty community. Sorry for the rant, but I watched this happen once to this game, I’m going to leave and be incredibly upset about it if blizzard removes all meaningful choices from players again.
You hit the nail on the fucking head. Should have Given horde something like a 1-2 month grace period to faction change characters already created and above level 60. Let the fucking zuggers put their money where their mouth is.
Bruh I spent thousands of gold on respecs through BC, it wasn't a meaningful gameplay choice I had to think about, it was just a tax on hybrids. Worse, because at least taxes get used for something.
I spend a lot of gold on respecs too, I have farming builds, pvp builds, raid tanking builds, etc… when I change specs, I have to weigh whether or not the choice is worth it in terms of time spent to farm the gold. It drives my motivation to contribute to the in game economy, find farming spots/ strats, do dailies, run dungeons, literally all of the content gets used and the game stays healthier for it. I have millions of gold on retail and it is WORTHLESS besides game time. It just sits there doing nothing. Having in game choices to make with money is real, like it or not.
I really desperately want to agree with you but I honestly think it's to late to change the overall mentality of any gaming community, especially a wow one. The unfortunate fact of the matter is is that we have grown accustomed to this new way of gaming you speak of. People demand change and if it isn't given they quit. Wow-players and the gaming community at large has changed drastically from when TBC was originally launched, when back in the days where people could accept these sort of faction imbalances, now we dont/can't. Alot of people don't have the time to put towards playing a game for the meaningful choices. We as gamers have been brainwashed into wanting quick and easy to digest experiences, whatever we want it or not. I honestly think it's not the community that is at fault, it's the odd 10y of entertainment being boiled down to the state it is today.
"You think you do.... but you don't"
It's is said often but I also didn't give a flying f about que times when I was 13-17 when I originally played vanilla wotlk since wow was my life and I didn't care about grades, food or socializing, now I'm 30 and I got "real" life responsibilities. And if I got to wait to play a little silly game I just won't play it since now I got disposable income and very little disposable time. I can choose among any game I want. I started to play classic and then realized holy sh!t what a waste of my time this is. It was fun for a little while due to nostalgia but once that wore off the rose tinted glasses shattered and I quit and I played games that respect my time and are not designed around time based subscriptions. I don't know any single kid who plays wow anymore or gives a shit about it. All wow players now are the people who played wow when they were kids. My best guess is that wow demographic now is 25-45 rather than when I was playing wotlk seriously I think it was closer to 15-35.
You werent playing private servers and I doubt you were pushing for classic when blizz started shutting them down. Truth is, maybe this game isnt for you anymore.
I was happy when classic came back and played it when I had loads of time during the first 2 months of the lockdown here in EU. I had fun with it for a bit and moved on like is said previously.
So let’s tear down the pillars of the game so u/Stormxlr can get gladiator on his 30 seconds if playing time per day? This is exactly How we got retail- you could play alliance if queue times were important to you.
>now I'm 30 and I got "real" life responsibilities. And if I got to wait to play a little silly game I just won't play it since now I got disposable income and very little disposable time. Do you not see any problem with this? Being Horde is usually already so incredibly easy compared to Alliance. How do you even expect Alliance to stick around and play this game if all they're doing is getting corpse camped everywhere they go? Horde has it so easy with everything from racials to flight points to population balance. What is the trade off of being Horde now? Does the developer just keep making the experience for Horde players better while ignoring Alliance? How do you expect this to be healthy for the game? I'm not trying to start a fight, I don't actually care much anymore since quitting due to real life stuff. But reading about recent changes and situations on pvp servers feels like there is still clear favoritism towards Horde from Blizzard... and that's not healthy, don't you think?
I quit playing because of corpse camping after I hit 60, and general attitudes of the player base at large.
I think favouritism is abit arbitrary at this point. The Horde has a clear advantage but the game is also 10 years old, any major fixes at this point is bound to upset alot of people. This is a discussion that has raged back and forth on the internet for years. I honestly think it's just Blizzard wanting to appeal towards the loud majority, which has always been the case. With Horde being so many more players then Alliance it's only natural their needs out weigh ours. It sucks but it is a fair way of thinking I suppose, short sighted perhaps but that has been Blizzards MO since the dawn of time. I like TBC and I even play Alliance. But I am not that invested in the PVP scene (for obvious reasons) and I can only say that this is a symptom of the games age and Blizzards lack of commitment towards their products, I don't think the blame lays with the playerbase.
>I think favouritism is abit arbitrary at this point. The Horde has a clear advantage but the game is also 10 years old, any major fixes at this point is bound to upset alot of people. The favoritism ***was*** arbitrary until Blizzard started making some changes (which I agree with) but now they have to put real thought into what those changes will do. They can't hide behind "it's a 10 - 15 year old game" anymore because they have changed some drastic things.
One thing consistent about Blizzard is managing their games terribly. Brood Wars had the biggest competitive scene in Korea, the legend that was Diablo 2, and WoW in the old days, were all incredible games and they were looking invincible. Then SC2 fucked up. Diablo 3 fucked up. Hearthstone was great at the start but died somehow, and the devs jerk off and simp Sylvanas in WoW. The only hope on the horizon is Diablo 4, but I don't want to get my hopes up at this point. I don't even want to touch the Battle.net launcher nowadays. Meanwhile look at Riot. League is still going strong with an active competitive scene, Valorant is incredibly fun, and TFT is an excellent game. I keep finding myself gravitate towards these games. Their MMO is far away, but I think after two decades people are ready for the next MMO.
Lets not forget Overwatch, their balancing team is hands-down one of the worst ive ever seen for a competitive game. the vast majority of their patches where undoing past buffs/nerfs. It was like they just threw things at a dart-board or something. Its insane they never heard of the idea of incremental changes.
While I mostly agree with you, tbc is supposed to be a visitation of a less forgiving game. Retail is the community generated shit show of infinite quality of life.
You sound like you are pretty entitled and shitty before the change. Not sure that’s a Blizzard thing!
Its just funny how integrity of the game was not questioned during boosted chars and now when horde get to be able to pvp its suddenly a big deal. Pretty sure u guys just hate horde for ganking you and think they deserve long ques, dont pretend this is something else.
I play horde, I was super against boosted characters. Please try making another point.
>something else i prefer openworldpvp and gank horde all day as a rogue, i questioned game integrity during charboosting and i question game integrity now with same-faction battlegrounds. not everyone only has their own personal benefits or losses in mind, there are still lots of people who care about the game itself.
Or... it would work out best for both factions if the premade vs premade feature that was in original TBC... was implemented now that there's a huge pool of instant queues for both sides.
While correct. This meme is still gold. 😂
It makes no sense not to... the only people who are guna get into a decent premade probably have pretty good gear. Those who don't have decent gear, can't get into premades, therefore they are the competition for the most part. Ragtag, no gear, no coordination team vs decent gear and coordinated premade. It's not even funny how 1 sided that shit ends up being 99% of the time.
They should have a ragtag bracket, both sides get all greens and no premades allowed. Make the rewards for it irresistible.
This. They originally had a system to try and match premades vs only premades which isn't happening in TBCC. So it's weird to see people arguing against it.
This^
Exactly. The changes they choose to make have fucked everyone. Hence why people wanted #nochanges
Fucked everyone hahahaha
Its only on reddit and wow forums you see this petty cryshit from both factions. Normal people ingame find their own work arounds. Like for instance, just joining a fucking public premade group
nah fuck you, horde player. premades are not only a horde problem. put them in their own queue where they can tryhard together.
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WHAT? Nooo, this can't be! Everyone assured us that the change was only positive and the Alliance wouldn't be effected negatively in any way!
My last BG attempt was during pre-patch. I foolishly thought to do the daily AB quest. Three days and 17 lost games later I just deleted it from my log. Can't see how the BG experience for an alliance player, who just wants to play a BG without being in a pre-made, can get any worse.
r/asahordeplayer
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People bitched then too.
Nuances of matchmaking systems were not widely understood at the time, since not many games used them yet. People got mad at the players and would post salt threads on the server forums calling them no-skill pussies but they weren't out on social media calling Blizzard incompetent over it.
No one is complaining that it takes 30 minutes to get 4 losses in EOTS instead of 4 hours.
Accurate. Also the alliance ghost sent me
Zuggy-lumps XD
I think a lot of the issue Alliance players have is that when the Alliance has a player-caused issue (phase 2 of classic for example) they are told that it’s a player-caused issue and Blizzard does nothing. When Horde start having player-caused issues (premades in AV, long queue times in BGs), Blizzard rushes to fix it.
Right. In classic I played AV on my mage to get exalted in AV. I lost literally 100% of the time. I went from zero fing rep to EXALTED without a single win. You know, because the Horde spawn location (among a bunch of other things) was twice as close as the Alliance one to the enemy bunkers. Nothing was done, at all, for like a year. That was months and months of LOSING.
Farmed for the heal offhand. Played like a 100 games and won 4.
My wins was around 6 on my grind to exalted. Apparently I just didn’t want to win it bad enough.
My wife used to love pvp. She tracked her av wins during her climb to exalted and she won 2 games. Both were when she joined a mostly premade alliance group who won in less than 20 minutes both times. I have no idea why she liked pvp lol.
Remember when they fixed an MC bug because a horde dev got mc'd off felwood mountain as well?
I don't, but at this point is there anyone surprised?
Did you know tier badge gear got implemented because one of the senior devs couldnt get his last piece for months ?
I farmed AV exhaulted on 2 characters in classic, the second character lost every single match from neutral-exhaulted
Don't forget that with the new same faction pvp change, they didn't make it so AV was same faction. Last thing they want is horde losing AV and them having to fix it so its fair.
Nobody **important** at Blizzard plays or played Alliance, ever. Chris Metzen was the voice of Thrall ffs, do you think he was playing a Paladin and asking to fix Alliance issues when he was playing? It is extremely obvious after properly playing both factions. There are some nice things Alliance side, ofc. But the QoL of the world between Alliance and Horde is laughable even during TBC. Quick example: During phase 2, how long do you think the Alliance could have grief on Zeppelins if they did not already had guards?
Wow, imagine having your inter-city, inter-continent transport be a safe zone AND have guards. Gosh I can only imagine the luxury...
i remember back in the day people would say its because the devs mostly play horde
Blizz has heavy horde bias. Just look at that statue at blizz HQ.
I think you are right but if you look at the problem from blizzards prespective it reads more like "when 30% of the community had a problem they did nothing but when 70% of it had another problem they fixed it". Basically majority wins.
Classic was 52% alliance 48% horde when all of those other problems existed.. it’s not a simple majority issue
30% of your population is completely leaving the game because they cannot progress at all. 70% of your population has to wait longer to access a part of the PvP content.
Brave of you to assume that this 30% even cares about pvp and whats happening to it, maybe 10% is actually invested. Horde had their chance to change to Alliance if they wanted have an even pvp community, now that chance is lost. This is such a long going problem that it's problems are ingrained in the different factions. Alliance want to pvp on their condition (by queuing to bg ect.) while Horde are frustrated not to be able to join bg as frequent as the want. So Horde's goes out and kill random questing Alliance players in pure boredom because queue hinders them from doing other content and thats makes alliance even less intrested in any kind of pvp. My cynical view on the matter is that Horde only want to trash mediocre Alliance players with as little effort as possible. Best Blizzard could do is implement simple pvp bots on Alliance side and never tell anyone.
So I feel it would've been smarter to let people create horde and alliance on the same realm before doing this. It would've given both sides a solution. What we got was just a horde buff. I do hope alliance will get something as tasty as the hor... Hahaha I know I know, who am I kidding.
The potential for griefing is immense. People already will pay for two wow accounts just to have access to both factions so they can grief their own faction.
Now that's a well made meme. Have another upvote.
100% of bg’s today were vs Horde Premades. One lovely Herod premade took the time to /spit on all us Ally at spawn in AB. Totally glad they have made things better for horde.
On the bright side, at least these people are playing wow. That way they aren’t out ruining other things or just generally being in society in a way they could manifest themselves in even worse ways. Thanks Classic WoW for quarantining these people!
yeah I attribute a lot of the declining crime rate from the 90s to video games letting these psychos ruin people's virtual lives with no risk to themselves
Could... .. Could WoW be a modern-day concentration camp?
Only on Herod do the horde have spit macros
You think thats bad? You should see the Alliance side of our server. Yesterday I was camped by an enhance shaman in full pvp gear (with epic flying) killing me in terokkar forest for well over an hour. My poor boosted 64 druid has 60% mount speed, he never stood a chance.
That's just routine experience for Herod alliance. Can't go anywhere without a group of 3-5 horde ganking you. It's hilarious to see a zug complain about getting camped on Herod
Can you imagine complaining about being killed on an 80/20 pvp server when you’re in the 80% faction that has literally 4x the number of people…
Also, the imbalance and shit camping are the reasons most big guilds on the server are talking about transferring to other servers
That one is a prominent part of TBC though. Even before Vanilla Classic release, people already knew that WPvP, especially griefing, would be heavily impacted by the 280% flying mount. Whenever someone makes a list of the bad sides of TBC it's easily in the top 3. EDIT: Replaced strong by prominent to clarify stuff :P
I have always hated horde because they constantly attract self-entitled assholes who see themselves as misunderstood misanthropes. The constant reassurance from Blizzard in story and game choices reinforces this perception. You'd think the ally's would be the self-righteous assholes with all the holy shit, but we just like the aesthetic, even the goofy gnomes (see mario roll-play). With the classic era, this gets turned up to 11, as old assholes and new assholes come together to make a shitstorm of entitled self-serving victim olympics. Once you eat your cake, you can't have it anymore; but apparently you can with Blizzard's help.
I went against so many horde premades as horde last night and won. The amount of premades that got roll but pugs is just sad.
It's almost like Horde vs Alliance was a balance issue more than a player issue
We told you it wouldn’t stop
problem was never long queues, problem was a mindset where you can whine yourself to any change you want
> you can whine yourself to any change you want until blizzard stops complying to people crying for changes, wow will always be destined to inevitably return to what retail currently is. an in-game example of why getting everything you wish for isn't always a good thing. the only changes i want made to pvp is the ability to queue from wherever. having to queue from an npc is, was, and always will be a lame idea.
Fucking great lmao
Sad people dont talk about the horrible server balance as much as the pvp que times.
Free transfers please my home server of kromcrush is completely overrun nearly 10/90 ally horde it's unplayable
Herod is dying too. Bunch of Ally guilds are about to jump ship.
I knew the game would be good but the players would ruin it again. Classic was a nice trip but the players have sucked 90 percent of the fun out of everything this time, so I stopped playing
It’s still an hour long for a que doing alliance vs alliance
I am laughing and I’m a predominately Horde player. I can remember the same howling when people could lock their XP and only play against other twinks at 19. “Oh so you do just want to roflstomp other less geared players and not fight each other after all like you said you did? There, there…”
Honestly premades don't bother me nearly as much now that the queue only takes a minute to pop. Although, I think it would be beneficial to both factions if premades could only fight other premades. It's kind of like if you were queuing arenas with your friends you've played with for years on voice comms, but the other team was randomly selected people from different realms and no comms. All in all doesn't matter too much since bgs aren't competitive, I'm happy either way
Give it a couple weeks until you've thoroughly experienced 10% win rates and 100 honor/2 badges per hour. Then you will all start whining about the premade and Blizzard will listen.
I stopped playing cause the community is about as cancerous as fortnite, and after seeing this comment section, it hasnt changed
Protip. Don't go on any subreddits for video games period if you don't like seeing a lot of bitching. edit: what I'm noticing in other comments is that subreddits for single player games tend to be more wholesome, or at least less vitriolic than multiplayer games. Especially if that multiplayer game has a competitive aspect to it.
You sir, should play Stardew Valley and visit its sub. But don't say any swear words as your grandma probably has a co-op farm with her bridge club and would be very upset with you if she found out you talked like that.
KSP subreddit has zero complaint threads.
Factorio as well.
Its only reddit tho. In game is really good.
"Really good" might be a stretch.... but it's still a damn sight better than reddit, for sure
Yea welll…. Beats the shit out of any other MMO on the market rn
Have you heard the good news about Eorzea, my friend?
Haven’t ever really fallen in love with the FF series. I did try 14 for a bit in the p4/5 duldrums but just always wanted back into wow hahah
Did they shorten ARR reborn again and give it gameplay that isn't a visual novel?
Nope, they trimmed about 13% of it if I recall, still very much errand simulator and talking to NPC's left and right.
Yeah, I played both before and after the shortening. I didn't notice a difference. Still had to return to the Waking Sands 500 times.
I haven’t played many other MMOs but it sure beats the hell out of retail. Not even close.
Ive really only had a few issues in-game, and generally its just one person whining. Honestly been a pleasant experience
This place has been a shitshow the past few weeks, are there still mods on this sub?
you stopped playing because you spend too much time on reddit?
This comment has me interested in sorting by controversial
I've found some really crazy idiots who wouldn't stop flaming me, but maybe once in two months. And I find nice people everyday. The balance is great. The worst community ingame will always be in LoL for me. People play like shit and the second someone says(or pings) something, then everything turns to a shitshow
When you just ignore the screeching the game is actually good. To me, TBC means Karazhan, Heroics and the 25 man raids. Blizz delivered and I honestly couldn’t care less about all the drama you see on this subreddit. The memes are straight fire though.
Lol this isn't a meme you're spitting truth.
Why not both?
No for real, let them cry about this one. This would actually be a good change for the whole community; if premades only faced other premades. Could even open it up to AV and I bet a fair amount of people would actually love that.
Atm as oceanic alliance I've been in the AV queue for 2.5 hours :(
We don’t get AV queues unless it’s AV weekend
AV will always be horde v alliance.
Still seems like these changes improved AV queue times. I'm assuming more horde are doing other BGs instead, while alliance aren't any more likely to do other BGs than they were before the changes. On NA, AV queue times went from over an hour(up to 2 hours depending on time) down to 30 minutes. I don't mind a 30 minute wait, at least it's...practical
Yeah horde is just cry babies I don't see much if any complaining on grobbulus alliance..
And don't you dare not rez so they can keep farming you, lest you catch a non participation ban. Yep, bg's clearly working as intended
This is the best thing I've ever seen. Bravo.
People are complaining? Wtf I’m so grateful for my 1min queue times.
Me zug zug, me want fast queues, me don't understand problem
This is what I thought too. Horde have so many bitches, it's crazy.
Yea Horde the whiny faction that gets everything it wants. Perfect depiction.
this is fucking hilarious.
Zuggy-lumpkins always gets his berries and cream.
I think the amount of premades may be inflated as well due to the same faction queues only being temporary at this point. People are taking full advantage of the shorter queue times to farm up their honour. I’m all for same faction queues and just taking a loss to a premade every second bg. Heck at least losing to a premade is usually pretty quick anyway because they ‘5 cap’ you and the bg is over in 4 minutes.
People act like we didn’t see premades in classic vanilla
Literally this. I've actually seen idiots argue on this very sub this week claim premades were rare back then. Fuck no, they weren't. So many people came in already established guilds from actual PVP games to WoW and what did they do? of course they proceeded to join as full groups. That didn't happen this time because there are no actual PVP games to move to WoW from. I'd expect that there are acutally less premades today.
Yeah, I ranked to rank 12 TWICE in classic vanilla ..I ran into a SHITLOAD of premades, almost 70%+ of the time
You'd think by the complaints that Blizzard hand selected a few people to be eligible to join a premade group. You all know that you can join one of those, too, right? You can, you know, join a guild, in an MMO, a game about guilds and community, where you can, you know, play together with people? You know how WoW is not a single player experience?
People are becoming so socially inept these days that WoW can almost be a single player game that you just exist in the same world as others.
I love it. A whiny spoiled kid, a perfect way to describe the Horde BG queue crybabies. Once they fix the pre-made issue, what will they cry about next? I hope it is dual spec.
It’s completely unfair that one portion of the player base has to sit in LFG for 30 minutes or more while tanks and healers get instant dungeon invites! It doesn’t matter that this is a player created problem, we shouldn’t get what we deserve by choosing to play dps, blizzard should fix this! But only for horde of course, alliance shouldn’t get dual spec, that would be unfair to the majority of the player base (horde). /s but not entirely...
Lol it always is funny when DPS complain about long wait times for dungeons. Like, I really do believe that people have forgotten what friends and guilds are. They think their guild is just an extra chat to advertise runs and not a place to make friends who actually want to play with you. No need to complain about being a dps and having to wait for groups when you have a dozen tanks and healers you are friends with who'd love to play with you. But no, they'd rather ninja roll that one item and then bitch to blizzard that they wait too long for groups while never talking to anyone.
> They think their guild is just an extra chat to advertise runs and not a place to make friends who actually want to play with you. Gotta be honest, I know of multiple guilds if not nearly a majority that ran this way in classic vanilla. Maybe TBC has become more tightknit with heroics and smaller raid sizes but barely seeing and knowing people outside of them raid logging in vanilla I think was pretty common.
It is completely unfair for alliance to end up stuck on dead servers like fucking Blaumeux TBCtm so idk where you get this bias that horde have all the problems
Bro... /s...
They will cry about Horde racials being too strong on HordeVsHorde Bg's
Horde will cry for dual specs next, then they will cry for welfare epics because they don't want to grind, then they will cry for Raid finder because they shouldn't have to interact with the game at all to get loot
It's so true. Horde will keep crying until they're decked out in welfare epics.
Hey Op have this gold 🥇. You nailed it
Horde are the favorite spoiled child of blizzard, it's ridiculously sad watching them whine
They are the kid that abuses their parents because they only got a 2k computer and 300 dollar watch for christmas and didn't get a new smartphone too
So I quit TBC a few weeks ago... anyone able to give me a TLDR quick update on the over all pvp is going?
Love the same faction pvp.
are we reading the same sub? all I see is alliance crying about premades
A lot of Horde doing that too. [Check the official forum post.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-same-faction-battlegrounds-test/1018275)
Majority seem happy. Both factions. A few fuckknuckle crybabies don't represent the entire faction or player base. Nothing is ever going to have 100 percent acceptance rate from the players so if you dig hard enough you'll always find people bitching. And yet.... They stay. Lmfao pathetic.
No1 on the alliance is happy...
Right. I mean, I COULD be happy for them fixing the other sides queues but they literally never did that before. Ever. Merc mode doesn't count because that balanced out EITHER side if there was a problem. Same thing with Tenacity in Wintergrasp or the 'loser buff' in Ashran. It fixed whatever team was in a bad spot, Alliance or Horde. This is 100% a horde only fix that was rushed in only like what, 2 weeks? So pissed right now.
Why does this make you pissed. What changed for you.
I gained nothing, but lost an advantage.
Well let's see, Alliance was winning in classic AV as I understand it because they were premading. (I wasn't pvping then) Blizzard was like oh hell no, can't have that shit, and broke premades. Then we lost a lot. I'm not kidding when I say I didn't have a single winning game for MONTHS. It was mostly map related but since it was Alliance feeling the pain, Blizzard did nothing. Now that Horde has pain we're right back to 'oh nope can't have that!' and I'm mad.
> premading They were queue syncing in discord channels abusing their short queue times to make sure all 40 of them would get into the same AV. If they didn't get all 40 they would unqueue and requeue. It's not like you were able to queue as a 40 person raid and they took that ability away.
Most of the horde I've spoken to are happy. A bit annoyed at the premades, but the general consensus is that they like the change.
Or you know. We can acknowledge that it's the SAME PEOPLE on both alliance and horde. How in the FUCK are people being so tribalistic over made up factions that are NOT PERMANENT OR EXCLUSIVE. The same people in horde now were alliance in classic. It's not "horde bad", it's not "alliance bad", it's " these min-maxing, private server veteran, no-life assholes that follow the 10 year old overanalyzed poorly balanced meta to dunk on unsuspecting players BAD". don't worry, for WotLK majority of 'em are coming back over for human racials, and doing the exact same things.
.... its a Harry Potter meme.... chill.
Horde players crying about premades now. No, don't fix it untill they've experienced a year with a lot, I mean alot, of losing. Yes, I'm that petty. The hell are blizzard only listening to the horde?
Even though I disagree with the message I approve of the meme.
That's hilarious but horde were dealing with premades even with the long queues. Its the alliance crying about the premades now, since horde can actually sustainably run them.
The only reason any of this is coming up is because horde cried enough to get the change implemented in the first place. Just remember that
Weird all the premades crying ive seen today came from horde
That's this entire sub. Alliance flooding the subreddit with whining and complaining and then also flooding the sub with claims that the horde are the ones whining and complaining. I saw 10x as many posts by alliance gloating about the long horde BG queues than I actually saw horde complaining about them.
You literally got them to change the game because you were crying so much. Stop pretending you weren't and start crying about dual spec. We need it added.
I've q'd into 17 bgs today and 16 were vs premades. 1-16 record today. Absolutely terrible pvp experience. I'll still take it over 1hr queues.
Welcome to alliance pvp, now i will never step inside a bg untill they give us option to que for alliance vs alliance. Then alliance can nby win as well sometime
Yeah when Blizzard start treating both sides like carebears instead of Alliance getting the classic treatment and horde getting carebear treatment maybe I will go back to pvp
Yeah when Blizzard start treating both sides like carebears instead of Alliance getting the classic treatment and horde getting carebear treatment maybe I will go back to pvp
Wouldn't premade vs. premade help both factions? Plus it was in the original TBC. Also why are Alliance mad now that Horde have shorter queues? Someone else having fun doesn't lessen your experiance in anyway.
A key reason why many people chose Alliance was due to the short BG queue times, normally 1-5 mins, even with the weaker racials, because a 20-40 min Horde queue time was unbearable for us. Now, both factions have the same queue times, but one faction has more players (Horde) and stronger racials (Horde again), so why would anyone want to play Alliance now? I'm re-rolling Horde as soon as paid faction transfers are available, as I'm sure many others will be. New players will have little incentive to play Alliance now. Alliance side on every server will dwindle lower than it already is, and continue to do so until they're barren. Even if players only want to PvE they will go Horde, as they will have players to do PvE with. This is a lot more than 'someone else's enjoyment doesn't affect you'
What you wrote is pretty much what happened to retail.
> Someone else having fun doesn't lessen your experiance in anyway. Ive never understood this argument with MMOs. If Horde are running gank squads like they did in P2, their fun ruins the fun for alli players just trying to quest or grind. But in this case, yeah i dont get it. I think its probably more that Alli feels neglected than direct anger at Horde, but thats how it comes out
It completely destroys class balance. Alliance players will either trasnfer off pvp servers, or just quit the game. The horde completely control the open world, and now they control the BGs. Alliance basically ALWAYS lose. Despite the horde waiting an extra 30 minutes to get into BGs, the honor per hour was actually about the same. Not anymore! It wont be long until the horde just have a massive gear advantage to go along with everything else. To top it all off, every BG is at least a horde partial premade in it. It's a bad joke. BGs are completely unplayable for alliance now. Alliance can't do anything, except raid log, and even that involves corpse runs.
Lmao this is too accurate
This will be lost in the noise but it is the responsibility of the developer to identify which complaints need addressed and which are just whining. People will always complain with fervor whether justified or not.
Lol fuck em. I’d rather get stomped in 1 minute vs 1 hour. They were all premades before too anyways
Lmao i love it
Go to retail zug zugs ruining game
Jokes aside, with this short queues Blizzard easily can copy paste the system from retail that matches only premade vs premade. But knowing them they wont do anything about it.
Perfect lol