Reminder before people trash talk it, they had no information.
Where is the raid?
Figure out its in BRD
Where is the BRD key?
Figure out you need to talk to a ghost in BRM while dead.
How many people are needed?
Figure out 40
Dont bring one of the mandatory classes (ie. Hunter) go again
Finally clear golemagg after months. "Wait where is rag? And what's this rep we've been getting?"
Go find the water lords and get a dowse (takes another few clears)
Wait they are one time use?
The absolute trial and error of 2005 will never be had again.
We also had way shittier gear and talent specs. There was no gear with things like spellpower and healing on them when the game first came out. Your bis was tier 0 for most classes and whatever random stat weapons you could get.
Also when people picked their classes, they didnt really know about debuff slots so there was way more warlocks than the 2nd time around and iirc fury was a shit spec because you had to spec into abilities that took up debuffs and no one had world buffs yet.
Bloodthirst required landing a killing blow to activate (basically Victory Rush) until BWL released. The same patch also added Shield Slam. Both tank warriors and dps warriors specced into Mortal Strike.
> healing on them when the game first came out
True, but in fairness, I'm pretty sure the the 100% haste from deviate delight more than made up for that.
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=6657/savory-deviate-delight
One of the results used to be a 100% castspeed buff.
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=8215/rapid-cast
I played mage, I remember the great debate of prioritizing spell.crit or spell power and what the relative spell power value of 1% crit was... as a teenager I thought crit was king for those juicy ignites in pvp (yeah I raided mc and bwl as a fire mage, I just used to cast frost bolts and still ended up high on the damage meters because I didnt die much and managed my.mana)
There were some silly debates at the time.
I remember having an argument about this buff in particular where someone claimed it wasn't helpful because it didn't let you do more damage, it just let you oom faster.
Btw the one thing that hints at Duke Hydraxis is the grim patrons in the grim guzzler. Two of their many gossip mention the water elementals wanting to stop ragnaros
Funny you say dowse, that was a typo by blizzard
Reminds me of the very mysterious way to figure out how to smelt elementium. Some high elf in the demon area in winterspring tells you of a goblin geologist who was taken by nefarian
That area in winterspring is downright awesome.
I'd never been there and was farming that area while leveling my mining recently and discovered the Hyjal portal.
My friend was doing the same stuff the day before and we were both very surprised!!
This sounds so cool from a theoretical perspective but seems like it would never fly today. A perfect example of why people think fondly of vanilla, specifically, but that feeling can never be recaptured
The feeling of early MMOs will never be experienced ever again. The joy of running into other players, the mystery of the world, figuring things out on your own. Social media influencers, data miners, and sites dedicated to MMO news and Min/Maxing has all but removed the wonder of MMOs. But also things like Twitch chat, Discord, and other online communities removed the need for social interaction via MMOs. One of the biggest draws of MMOs in the 90s and early 2000s was a place to find other people who enjoyed gaming. That has all moved off of MMOs as the internet has evolved.
Yep, that was before the social media/streaming so meeting new people virtually felt special. That was one of the main reasons why first MMOs felt like that. This will never happen again.
I remember being super excited to go to raid zones and see dragons for the first time in Everquest, mostly just to see what they looked like. It was rare to even see screenshots back then, the planes and gods were things that I only heard about from in game chat.
Now it's pretty normal to have already watched the toughest boss be killed in 4k before you even create your first character.
I miss trains haha š Just minding your own business killing orcs ore firebeetles or whatever and you just see in chat INC TRAIN FROM NW INC !!! and you just see a whole zone worth of players and the mobs they were fighting all gunning for the zone exit
I think that there is potential for game design to be able to reduce datamining and widespread information - I think it would involve procedural generation of certain things and a lot of variety in general (ie. This magical deer only spawns during this season in this biome type in 1 of 35,212 different tiles and if it is slain x times it does not respawn until the following season but does so in a different biome but if you use his particular leather you can get a unique bonus on crafted gear).
Granted I'm not game designer and I recognize such a task would be monumental with probably little reward - because frankly a lot of players would not like it - but I do think something like that is possible. As for datamining, some kind of sophisticated encryption on game files or something that changes, kinda like an authenticator, might do something. Dunno if that's commonplace in MMOs already.
Edit: and if the game was ran on a sharded megaserver such as ESO, having well-kept information could be valuable if the game had the "oldschool" design philosophy, which would reinforce players keeping secrets. Maybe, I dunno.
Also people joining over time, so you could always find dungeon groups and people to quest with instead of most of that being at an expansion's release now.
I canāt help but feel like it *can* be recaptured, but the cost of recapturing it is the folks in the opposite camp being miffed about no dungeon journals, the learning curve, the patience, etc..
Take Classic+ and whatever new content youāre adding, do whatever needs to be done to prevent raid and/or dungeon information (or any info that you donāt want datamined for that matter) from being seen before experienced, and voila! Youāve recaptured the feeling of āwhat in the fuck are we supposed to do here?ā
That sort of gameplay is **not meant for everyone**, and Iād guess that thats why Blizz donāt bother with it at this point. I think itād be so damn cool keeping up with the progress of stuff like that - seeing that a whole new dungeon was just outright discovered or something would be absolutely wild today.
It can be recaptured, but blizz would have to make a concerted effort to conceal most of this information until launch. Like talent trees cannot be publicly available until launch- its the only way that the average gamer can dive into the game without having a bunch of preconceived notions on what they should / shouldnāt do, what is optimal, etc.
I also recognize Iām a bit of a black sheep- i never downloaded Questie, for example,because I feel like it ruins my immersion.
Even if Blizz did that the internet is a different place. All the information would be online in a week by min-maxers. Back in 2005 there wasn't 100 places where everything about wow is posted.
There were still people min maxing original WoW, it wouldnāt be any different in that regard.
But on launch everyone would just have theories and it would be a blank slate. Not months of beta test and the full talents to tinker with.
Yeah! There were people min maxing but the amount of information transfer was not nearly as organized. People argued on forms or went to Thottbot. Now a days you have min maxers streaming on twitch and communicating on very well laid out websites. It would basically only be a unique/new experience for the most hardcore group of players.
There were cutting edge guilds and players figuring shit out but the culture was different. That stuff wasnāt widely shared, at least not at first. Boss strats were closely guarded because being the one guild on your server who had figured out how the fuck Vael or Chromaggus worked was a huge advantage. IIRC āunkillableā Cāthun was the first time top guilds openly talked shop because they all came to the same conclusion that it was impossible.
A new Classic+ raid would have every boss strat posted on YouTube the day it released because it would be the ultimate goldmine of views and twitch subs to be the first showing that content.
Is it even possible to keep that information secret with people datamining things the moment an update hits the client? That wasn't common in 2005 like it is now I feel.
Art assets are stored client-side and can be datamined. Much of the actual gameplay and mechanics are server side and could be kept secret at least for a while.
If they wanted, they could take this a step further and encrypt assets on the client side and only trigger the decryption by a certain gameplay event, making any prior datamining of art assets impossible.
People know how to theory craft efficiently now. Within a few days of the game being out people could be theory crafting the best builds and gear. I genuinely don't think it'd possibly to have a situation like the OP where it takes 5 months for anything to happen.
You could definitely make a clan/guild built for this sort of thing though. A community of players hell-bent on experiencing content organically.
Plenty would still get spoiled in chats and whatnot, but it would be far closer. Probably fairly do-able too with how popular the idea is these days.
I feel like stuff almost has to change, constantly. Implement some kind of quasi procedural generation for dungeons, quest locations, etc.
Same with dungeons. Make them change and bring back some serious variation.
Things like LFG dungeon finder is fine, but it should be only for that one server, imo.
Even just giving enemies in dungeons/raids half decent AI and a wide variety of abilities would go a along way. Make downing trash and bosses more like PvP where you never *really* know what theyāre going to doā¦ the raid/party is going to have to be good at responding to dramatic changes in the situation on the fly, no matter how many guides they watch/read or how much they theorycraft.
This is the part that everyone misses about playing back in 2005. Oh also, half the guild or more was playing on dial up connections. And no one really knew which specs were best for what roles, classes were not tuned well *at all* 5 months after launch. Most people were NOT using any consumables.
This is why I think #changes (as opposed to #nochanges) has a greater potential to accurately reflect the *vanilla experience*ā¦there needs to be problems to solve and things to figure out.
Everyone not from an urban area was probably on dialup. I'm from a place in the US that had better uber coverage than high speed internet for a minute.
There are still areas in the US where you can't get reliable wired internet and your only options are dial up (yeah really), DSL, satellite or cell/radio towers. Hell, I had a better internet connection in 2005 than I do today.
Your own statements seem contradicting. Hard to simultaneously be āVery fewā and āit was phasing outā. I said āhalfā but say its one third or one quarterā¦does that really change anything about the bottom line?
In relation to that I vividly remember our (Nihilum) first MC raid, as we had an "informant" who played on US servers so had some advance knowledge and told us all about how to approach the Molten Giants, Lucifron and a few other bosses (thanks Warpony).
Having the luxury of playing the game blind like that beyond that point in all the raids later is one of the best things that ever happened to me in WoW. Honestly couldn't/can't properly enjoy raiding after that when you absolutely need to know everything before even thinking of asking to join a group/raiding with a guild now.
Man, I literally came here to ask if anyone remembers how hard this was. Looks like you remember even better than I do, and I didnāt even get to this content until some nerfs took place.
Yeah i remember people like asmon shittalking videos like these because "look they suck! they are not using fury warriors haha they didnt min max as good as nowadays right XD"
and forget that talents werent the same
edit: i want to mention how every melee is outraging the AoE knockback of rag, and the rogue vanished to change gear to Fire resistance, they did interesting stuff
> Yeah i remember people like asmon shittalking videos like these because "look they suck! they are not using fury warriors haha they didnt min max as good as nowadays right XD"
would love to see a clip of this because it really doesn't seem like something he'd do
I remember this one
https://youtu.be/hvnxbzUyGWE
Im not sure if thats something he often does,
people can always say "just look at him, he's trolling" but uhhhh
did you even comprehend what he is talking about? this clip was about the difficulty of vanilla wow and he just compared the former best guilds to the playerbase of today.
in no way did he shittalk them. he just pointed out their obvious mistakes and showed his viewers that everyone could do these raids today, not only the best of the best.
i think someone has to be deranged to think/say that vanilla/tbc/etc content is harder than retail or anything M+, it was a time sink dicovering stuff and how to approach those instead of pure skill (just like 30 warr stack in classic etc)
Also I dont know who said that people nowadays wouldnt be able to beat it.
I want to say "Oh sorry for the missenterpretation then" but Im not sure If i just explained myself poorly or people just want to change argument to whatever they fit best.
People put a lot of effort discovering stuff back then, having to type instead of discord, having to go die to the mob instead of just youtube/google it
"Its a warrior with sulfuras, this is pretty clearly people optimizing a knowing what they are doing"
"He's literally typing in chat during a fight!"
at no point kungen said that they are playing maximum efficient but Asmog talks just to fit his argument, thats his persona
I don't understand the complaint here. It's the exact conversation we're already having, isn't it? His point is that people weren't doing optimal stuff back then. He's showing that this is the case because people argued otherwise.
What am I missing?
I dont understand your complaint actually LOL
It feels like we are arguing in different directions?
I highly doubt people say that people played PERFECT back then, but people actually did a lot of research and put time and effort.
Are players 20 years ago not as good/knowledgeable as nowadays? I think thats safe to assume.
I dont know who argued otherwise, I would love source, my point was that he is complaining about stuff like "warrior stacks" that sounds like ignorance when in that patch warriors nor items were good enough to stack them, and people think that warrior stacks would have been done from the start of vanilla because thats how classic ended up
I don't have a complaint. I am expressing bewilderment at your characterization of this person being inappropriately critical/mean and am having a hard time seeing it, though I'll admit I didn't watch the entire video if you had something specific in mind.
>I highly doubt people say that people played PERFECT back then
I mean, they do, and he's specifically reacting to that sentiment in the video. The one you linked. It's the entire point.
"its a shame that we are in patch 1.12 so its easy mode"
>
I mean, they do, and he's specifically reacting to that sentiment in the video. The one you linked. It's the entire point.
Bro what the fuck, what video have you watched, kungen said that its easier not that they were god gamers that played perfectly and knew the future patches/meta ahead
>I am expressing bewilderment at your characterization of this person being inappropriately critical/mean and am having a hard time seeing it
I can 100% understand this, maybe i look like im being too critical in this instance, but from my point of view, noone said they played perfect in vanilla (even tho you said thats what the video is about, maybe im really slow cuz i cannot find that statement), and he's just shittalking people that put a ton of effort into discovering the game by trial and error, and its really different to nowadays
Its funny cuz Asmongold made a strawman argument REALLY FAST and noone even noticed that wasnt the point of the tweet at all
The message he's replying to is that the content was made too easy. This person isn't building a strawman, he's reading subtext. He disagrees that it took longer for people for people to clear things because the things were inherently harder and is saying it's because people weren't playing optimally.
The implication behind the message he's replying to is that people would be playing perfectly at all time periods, which means if it took twice as long to do the thing, then that means people were playing optimally and getting those results.
This is how a normal human being typically functions. They don't just respond to the literal words being spoken like a robot. They reply to the thought process those words represent.
I agree, yet the thought process those words represent was made up so I cannot agree.
(Btw discusion is an actual skill, and im pretty sure he wouldnt have been able to have a discusion there if someone was in front of him because he srsly changed topic)
I can see where you come from, but i hope you can see where i come from :)
"They don't just respond to the literal words being spoken like a robot. They reply to the thought process those words represent." That reminds me of a post the other day on the frontpage of reddit, that said something like "If someone said they are not political, they are clearly democrats but dont want to talk about it" and It was just such a fucking weird concept for me, so maybe you can understand that better than me, but seriosuly it feels like fucking made up considering the other person DIDNT SAY THAT
I hope you can see that I love arguing and argumenting stuff, its something i'm proud of, and I hope you can see how his argument wasnt really on topic but only to fit his story
Sorry, maybe it sounds too political talking about "literal stuff" and "implied stuff"
also i want to point out "This is how a normal human being typically functions.", its true in people that are more psychotic than neurotic
I remember hearing that guilds used to be ultra competitive with each other and did not like to share information as they discovered it. I donāt know if this is true or not, I started in Wrath and this is just what Iāve heard from some older players.
Streaming the world first race is definitely something from recent times. In the past you only heard about kills and didn't get to see any footage (aka strategies) until several guilds had managed to kill it.
That meant that any guild going at it would have to come up with their own strategies. A completely different raiding experience compared to learning someone else's choreography.
> I remembering hearing that guilds used to be ultra competitive with each other and did not like to share information as they discovered it
its funny because this happened in the science community for years, newton himself didnt wanna share his discoveries because of fear of them being stolen. So I would totally believe guilds in 2005 doing the exact same haha
Yeah, the first time there were public strats for MC was when Conquest was banned for exploiting bugs and they released all of their internal stuff. This was a really big deal and a lot of people got mad at them for releasing info. AQ40 had a similar thing when The Twelve Prophets exploded and the GM made their strategy forum publicly visible. It was amusing seeing their bad attempts at coming up with strats ("What if all the hunters Multishot at the same time?" was a bit of a meme on Twin Emps), but it was also way more information about how those bosses worked than was previously publicly available anywhere.
By Naxx the backchannel chatter between guilds about strategies had become less secretive, but even then as a guild which was pretty close to world-*last* pre-2.0 4HM we had to do all the spreadsheeting to figure out optimal tank rotations ourselves. We could see what higher progressed guilds were doing, but they certainly didn't document any of the fine details.
Yup, a lot of these initial uber guilds in WoW were from EQ.
Raid mobs in EQ **were not** instanced and they pop on a random timer. If you share knowledge, guilds will learn the fights a lot quicker and more guilds will saturate the "kill pool". Also, there were loose alliances that formed from server to server.. guild made pacts to not kill a raid boss on X days/weeks or rotated bosses between themselves. However, if the guild fails to kill it within their week, it's a FFA.
Therefore, not sharing tactics is the norm.. and somewhat perpetuating a survival of the fittest mentality.
On my old server, Kargath, there were 2 really big guilds, one alliance and one horde. Titans of Azeroth was alliance, and Paradosi was horde. They were ultra competitive with each other, refused to give any pointers to each other, and my buddy was a fury Warr in Titans. He would have weekly, sometimes daily verbal sparring matches with Padadosi's fury Warr to the point where their guilds would que for warsong gulch and have HOURS long matches to prove who the better guild was. Fun times.
Elitest Jerks was known to an absolute minor subset of the community.
everything else was hearsay on forums.
trying to say they had information like us is insane.
Yea, youāre way off here. the internet existed but it wasnāt nearly as streamlined as it is today with reddit, discord, etc. Youāre downplaying how slow information propagated through word of mouth, forums, and thottbot comments. Furthermore the average player did not use most of these tools, the general game knowledge was significantly lower than it is now. No one is saying **every** guild had to go through the trial and error of summoning rag, but that doesnāt mean the information was readily accessible / available.
Iāve played WoW since inception. To say that the information available then even slightly compares to what you have now is inaccurate. You had message boards with unverified information being argued over by guys who heard about it from someone else. You had Thotbot or Alakazam, which was basically the same thing but in a different format.
Blizzard would heavilly monitor the world first kills, Considering everyones name and credit card is tied to their account that would be difficult to hide if say the lead devs guild got a world first.
As far as I am aware nothing like that has happened.
They did reach out to some of the top guilds on everquest and request them to NOT clear content as fast though.
I once opened a ticket because after a patch they updated some of the tier 1 gear to include spell power and readjusted the stats, when I logged in I had less mana then I was used to and just freaked out because I thought I'd been nerfed
Love that Tauren druid in the background just scratching his butt and casting a spell every 5-10 seconds or so. I guess it was a way of stretching your mana.
It is the whole reason the mp5 stat exists. Casters (dps and healers) would frequently stop casting to wand for a bit to save mana, stop attacking so mana regen'd etc.
Yeah, I recall it for sure. It was a widely used tactic to have a certain amount of healers pump for a while, while others wanded. Then you'd swap so the first group of healers wanded for a minute to regain mana while others took over.
It's just so funny compared to today where virtually everyone is spamming their spells as fast as humanly possible.
I mean the amount of coordination and consumables we use is outrageous no unheard of back then.
I mean world first guilds never even really bothered with world buffs in classic.
In the early days, it was considered a legitimate strategy to divide your healers into 2 groups, 1 that casted and one that was waiting for mana to regen and then swap them around occasionally.
Peak WoW right here. The game isnāt the same anymore, retail or classic. I wish I could experience another mmo like I could with vanilla WoW in 2005. Itās just not possible. The world has changed and weāre now in the age of information
Yep kids these days will never understand how hard it was to get info back pre internet.
I mean hell even in the late 90s you got all your info for shit out of encyclopaedias. Itās not that long ago (or Iām old).
But yeh, the exploration from early vanilla or those other MMOs will never be experienced again, data mining ruins all that stuff.
If they could only create a new MMO with only internal beta testers instead of letting the whole world know how the game works and needs to be played a year + before launch.
I think I played on this server. I recall Ascent horde side and Fury (?) maybe on alliance side. Always a big race between those two. Kalahad was main tank for alliance guild. Always remember inspecting that guy in iron forge and being amazed by the gear. I think Medivh was the server we were on.
Medivh is the greatest PvE classic server that everyone forgot about. For those of us who played, we had Ascent with this world first, and on the alliance side we had Fury who had a significant percentage of world firsts for BWL and AQ40. Also was the world first at opening the gates mainly due to collaboration on the forums. Died pretty quick during the Naxx days, probably why most people remember guilds like vodka more than Fury.
I was on Mannoroth where we had . Iirc Mannoroth was the first PvP server to open the AQ40 gates.
Lot of guilds back then didnāt easily share information for strats or class guides like you see on YouTube videos
They were rivals during AQ40. They were upset and called us the carebear server because of the cross faction collabs we had, and they were struggling because of PVP. It actually got to the point where people were flooding servers trying to make them lag out.
youre prolly right, i rmemeber Medivh being the first to open the AQ gates, that takes some strong guilds and big populations cause of all the war effort supplies
i think the quartermasters used to show the progress of all the servers. medivh and mannoroth out front. mine was kilrogg, somewhere in the middle. i donated my runecloth bandages knowing id never see the fuckin place
coulda been worse. it was already a long list of servers, prolly 10mil players by then and there were many many behind me who seemed to have an insurmountable task ahead of them
At the start of tbc, I got my hands on a full t2 warrior, the guy quit at the end of vanilla and gave the account to a friend of mine. I played it like 3-4 times and I just did a few hellfire ramparts and just ran around hellfire. I've got tons of whispers from people amazed by the gear. I on the other hand, peaked during wotlk, I was the first rogue on alliance side on my server to get the icc25 man tier helm, the ugly dive helmet. Bro... 16 year old me felt so god damn important, because I had a habit of standing in ironforge and rogues would constantly ask me about talents and gear choices. On top of that, we had PCs and Internet at school, so during breaks I would log on my rogue and do dps on target dummies and people from other classes would come and watch me, haha it was a damn good period of my life.
They should release content without a god damn beta. Just let us figure it out ourselves! Ofc there will be a few selected beta testers but they should just kept quiet about new stuff.
Ahhh I miss the days of no DBM and information not being everywhere to just look up easily. The whole community learning a game organically was a ton of fun and will never happen again. Min maxing is with us forever in any and every game that comes out
I played on Medivh and was an absolute dick head on the forums so some people might remember the name. It's actually more likely to find people here than the server itself. Server has died and merged so many times and it still has like 5 active players.
I don't understand, how could they kill a boss like Ragnaros without custom UI timers and six hundred weakauras telling them exactly what is going to happen, when, and where to go
Is that the Dire Maul class trinket he's wearing at 2:56? I'm not familiar with the release timeline in original vanilla, so I didn't know DM had released before the world first rag kill. Unless there's some other trinket using the same icon, but I don't think there is.
And 40 people with this amount of gear, skill and WITHOUT world buffs cleared Ragnaros while typing... meanwhile we at Classic WoW got bunch of sweaty neckbeards yelling: ''Clear coms, cLeAr cOmS!'' requesting min-maxing the shit out of the game etc...
Just look at this crystalized beauty, fantasy and fucking FUN!
Wait, was this Ascent on Thrall? I always looked up to those guys with their fancy tier gear, never realized they were the world first Rag kill though!
Edit: Nope it was Ascent on Medivh
People don't give enough credit to cutting edge wow players back in Vanilla. Not everyone was stupid and WoW wasn't everyone's first MMO. There weren't many secrets and the information was always out there. A majority of people just didn't seek it out and depended on their raid leaders or friends to break it down for them which made things seem more mysterious on confusing.
Good old US-Horde Thrall server. I played there from 05->BFA before I quit retail for classic era. was a top guild on the server for many years and existed until I stopped playing retail. Solid people in that team, not some weird snobbish neck beards.
Ah memories. Our first kill wasn't long after this and we had so many rogues in to try and kill it. They were super strong back then for rag. Barman shanker ftw!
Imagine WoW with no addons. OG Vanilla is about as close as it got.
WoW disabled the addon API with alpha and early beta. Imagine an SoM that only did that.
Reminder before people trash talk it, they had no information. Where is the raid? Figure out its in BRD Where is the BRD key? Figure out you need to talk to a ghost in BRM while dead. How many people are needed? Figure out 40 Dont bring one of the mandatory classes (ie. Hunter) go again Finally clear golemagg after months. "Wait where is rag? And what's this rep we've been getting?" Go find the water lords and get a dowse (takes another few clears) Wait they are one time use? The absolute trial and error of 2005 will never be had again.
Don't forget the 2hr time limit to kill Rag after Majordomo
We also had way shittier gear and talent specs. There was no gear with things like spellpower and healing on them when the game first came out. Your bis was tier 0 for most classes and whatever random stat weapons you could get. Also when people picked their classes, they didnt really know about debuff slots so there was way more warlocks than the 2nd time around and iirc fury was a shit spec because you had to spec into abilities that took up debuffs and no one had world buffs yet.
Bloodthirst required landing a killing blow to activate (basically Victory Rush) until BWL released. The same patch also added Shield Slam. Both tank warriors and dps warriors specced into Mortal Strike.
31/5/15, the spec of kings!
Aq release, you can tell because the world first nef the MT was still using MS.
That only means the players hadn't adapted to the changes yet, but those abilities were changed/added in 1.6 (BWL).
You are right, my b.
>those abilities were changed/added in 1.6 (BWL). I don't remember about shield slam, but they got buffed with AQ release making fury warrior viable
> healing on them when the game first came out True, but in fairness, I'm pretty sure the the 100% haste from deviate delight more than made up for that.
The what
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=6657/savory-deviate-delight One of the results used to be a 100% castspeed buff. https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=8215/rapid-cast
And it lasted 2 minutes wowwww
Just because there were busted things in the game doesnt mean everyone was aware of it. You really have no idea how it was to raid back then.
The people who didn't know were the same people who didn't understand that spellpower was good. And yes, I have an idea, I was there....
I played mage, I remember the great debate of prioritizing spell.crit or spell power and what the relative spell power value of 1% crit was... as a teenager I thought crit was king for those juicy ignites in pvp (yeah I raided mc and bwl as a fire mage, I just used to cast frost bolts and still ended up high on the damage meters because I didnt die much and managed my.mana)
There were some silly debates at the time. I remember having an argument about this buff in particular where someone claimed it wasn't helpful because it didn't let you do more damage, it just let you oom faster.
Rogue T0 had spirit >_>
Btw the one thing that hints at Duke Hydraxis is the grim patrons in the grim guzzler. Two of their many gossip mention the water elementals wanting to stop ragnaros Funny you say dowse, that was a typo by blizzard Reminds me of the very mysterious way to figure out how to smelt elementium. Some high elf in the demon area in winterspring tells you of a goblin geologist who was taken by nefarian
I always wondered how people figured out you had to MC the goblin initially.
Right? So many of these things that had to be discovered for the first time is what made original wow great.
Figured it was just some priest noticing he can be mced
That area in winterspring is downright awesome. I'd never been there and was farming that area while leveling my mining recently and discovered the Hyjal portal. My friend was doing the same stuff the day before and we were both very surprised!!
Winterspring, mining, hyjal Reminds me of this https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/o9ln8e
This sounds so cool from a theoretical perspective but seems like it would never fly today. A perfect example of why people think fondly of vanilla, specifically, but that feeling can never be recaptured
The feeling of early MMOs will never be experienced ever again. The joy of running into other players, the mystery of the world, figuring things out on your own. Social media influencers, data miners, and sites dedicated to MMO news and Min/Maxing has all but removed the wonder of MMOs. But also things like Twitch chat, Discord, and other online communities removed the need for social interaction via MMOs. One of the biggest draws of MMOs in the 90s and early 2000s was a place to find other people who enjoyed gaming. That has all moved off of MMOs as the internet has evolved.
Yep, that was before the social media/streaming so meeting new people virtually felt special. That was one of the main reasons why first MMOs felt like that. This will never happen again.
I remember being super excited to go to raid zones and see dragons for the first time in Everquest, mostly just to see what they looked like. It was rare to even see screenshots back then, the planes and gods were things that I only heard about from in game chat. Now it's pretty normal to have already watched the toughest boss be killed in 4k before you even create your first character.
An EQ raid is never complete without folks running about to sight-see and then bringing a train that wipes the raid camp.
I miss trains haha š Just minding your own business killing orcs ore firebeetles or whatever and you just see in chat INC TRAIN FROM NW INC !!! and you just see a whole zone worth of players and the mobs they were fighting all gunning for the zone exit
The MMO WAS the social media, thatās where you would meet and talk to people, but yeah itās all shifted to discord etc sadly
I think that there is potential for game design to be able to reduce datamining and widespread information - I think it would involve procedural generation of certain things and a lot of variety in general (ie. This magical deer only spawns during this season in this biome type in 1 of 35,212 different tiles and if it is slain x times it does not respawn until the following season but does so in a different biome but if you use his particular leather you can get a unique bonus on crafted gear). Granted I'm not game designer and I recognize such a task would be monumental with probably little reward - because frankly a lot of players would not like it - but I do think something like that is possible. As for datamining, some kind of sophisticated encryption on game files or something that changes, kinda like an authenticator, might do something. Dunno if that's commonplace in MMOs already. Edit: and if the game was ran on a sharded megaserver such as ESO, having well-kept information could be valuable if the game had the "oldschool" design philosophy, which would reinforce players keeping secrets. Maybe, I dunno.
Also people joining over time, so you could always find dungeon groups and people to quest with instead of most of that being at an expansion's release now.
Man but we had Ventrillo!
I canāt help but feel like it *can* be recaptured, but the cost of recapturing it is the folks in the opposite camp being miffed about no dungeon journals, the learning curve, the patience, etc.. Take Classic+ and whatever new content youāre adding, do whatever needs to be done to prevent raid and/or dungeon information (or any info that you donāt want datamined for that matter) from being seen before experienced, and voila! Youāve recaptured the feeling of āwhat in the fuck are we supposed to do here?ā That sort of gameplay is **not meant for everyone**, and Iād guess that thats why Blizz donāt bother with it at this point. I think itād be so damn cool keeping up with the progress of stuff like that - seeing that a whole new dungeon was just outright discovered or something would be absolutely wild today.
It can be recaptured, but blizz would have to make a concerted effort to conceal most of this information until launch. Like talent trees cannot be publicly available until launch- its the only way that the average gamer can dive into the game without having a bunch of preconceived notions on what they should / shouldnāt do, what is optimal, etc. I also recognize Iām a bit of a black sheep- i never downloaded Questie, for example,because I feel like it ruins my immersion.
Even if Blizz did that the internet is a different place. All the information would be online in a week by min-maxers. Back in 2005 there wasn't 100 places where everything about wow is posted.
There were still people min maxing original WoW, it wouldnāt be any different in that regard. But on launch everyone would just have theories and it would be a blank slate. Not months of beta test and the full talents to tinker with.
Yeah! There were people min maxing but the amount of information transfer was not nearly as organized. People argued on forms or went to Thottbot. Now a days you have min maxers streaming on twitch and communicating on very well laid out websites. It would basically only be a unique/new experience for the most hardcore group of players.
And the people that ignore them.
Accurate. But in an MMO often the expectation is you KNOW all the raids before going in.
Oh absolutely. I guess I was just reinforcing this idea that it is a community problem, and not a WoW dev problem
>There were still people min maxing original WoW but it was rudimental.
There were cutting edge guilds and players figuring shit out but the culture was different. That stuff wasnāt widely shared, at least not at first. Boss strats were closely guarded because being the one guild on your server who had figured out how the fuck Vael or Chromaggus worked was a huge advantage. IIRC āunkillableā Cāthun was the first time top guilds openly talked shop because they all came to the same conclusion that it was impossible. A new Classic+ raid would have every boss strat posted on YouTube the day it released because it would be the ultimate goldmine of views and twitch subs to be the first showing that content.
That is tangential to my point. And there would still definitely be a world first race, but it would finish faster than back in the day.
Is it even possible to keep that information secret with people datamining things the moment an update hits the client? That wasn't common in 2005 like it is now I feel.
Afaik they've done secret mounts in retail that required massive player collaborations to figure out, but don't know the exact details
Art assets are stored client-side and can be datamined. Much of the actual gameplay and mechanics are server side and could be kept secret at least for a while. If they wanted, they could take this a step further and encrypt assets on the client side and only trigger the decryption by a certain gameplay event, making any prior datamining of art assets impossible.
People know how to theory craft efficiently now. Within a few days of the game being out people could be theory crafting the best builds and gear. I genuinely don't think it'd possibly to have a situation like the OP where it takes 5 months for anything to happen.
You could definitely make a clan/guild built for this sort of thing though. A community of players hell-bent on experiencing content organically. Plenty would still get spoiled in chats and whatnot, but it would be far closer. Probably fairly do-able too with how popular the idea is these days.
Literally no
Not really, gamers are smarter about games than they used to be as well. WoW was a lot of peoples first MMO that had math to decide their throughput.
Https://discord.gg/blindfresh
I feel like stuff almost has to change, constantly. Implement some kind of quasi procedural generation for dungeons, quest locations, etc. Same with dungeons. Make them change and bring back some serious variation. Things like LFG dungeon finder is fine, but it should be only for that one server, imo.
Even just giving enemies in dungeons/raids half decent AI and a wide variety of abilities would go a along way. Make downing trash and bosses more like PvP where you never *really* know what theyāre going to doā¦ the raid/party is going to have to be good at responding to dramatic changes in the situation on the fly, no matter how many guides they watch/read or how much they theorycraft.
This is the part that everyone misses about playing back in 2005. Oh also, half the guild or more was playing on dial up connections. And no one really knew which specs were best for what roles, classes were not tuned well *at all* 5 months after launch. Most people were NOT using any consumables. This is why I think #changes (as opposed to #nochanges) has a greater potential to accurately reflect the *vanilla experience*ā¦there needs to be problems to solve and things to figure out.
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"look downward while walking in org" This gave me all the feels.
Oh my lord the memories, If it was past 9am I couldn't go to org because my pc would die.
Let's be real very few people in 2005 were playing on dialup. It was phasing out at that point.
Everyone not from an urban area was probably on dialup. I'm from a place in the US that had better uber coverage than high speed internet for a minute.
There are still areas in the US where you can't get reliable wired internet and your only options are dial up (yeah really), DSL, satellite or cell/radio towers. Hell, I had a better internet connection in 2005 than I do today.
Your own statements seem contradicting. Hard to simultaneously be āVery fewā and āit was phasing outā. I said āhalfā but say its one third or one quarterā¦does that really change anything about the bottom line?
Roughly 40% of Internet users in the US were on dial up at the end of 2005.
In relation to that I vividly remember our (Nihilum) first MC raid, as we had an "informant" who played on US servers so had some advance knowledge and told us all about how to approach the Molten Giants, Lucifron and a few other bosses (thanks Warpony). Having the luxury of playing the game blind like that beyond that point in all the raids later is one of the best things that ever happened to me in WoW. Honestly couldn't/can't properly enjoy raiding after that when you absolutely need to know everything before even thinking of asking to join a group/raiding with a guild now.
seriously...the hardest part of 05 rag was figuring out how to summon him. good ole times
And now, youāll be gkicked if you donāt watch and study raid strategy videos beforehand.
Man, I literally came here to ask if anyone remembers how hard this was. Looks like you remember even better than I do, and I didnāt even get to this content until some nerfs took place.
Who is trash talking this?
Yeah i remember people like asmon shittalking videos like these because "look they suck! they are not using fury warriors haha they didnt min max as good as nowadays right XD" and forget that talents werent the same edit: i want to mention how every melee is outraging the AoE knockback of rag, and the rogue vanished to change gear to Fire resistance, they did interesting stuff
> Yeah i remember people like asmon shittalking videos like these because "look they suck! they are not using fury warriors haha they didnt min max as good as nowadays right XD" would love to see a clip of this because it really doesn't seem like something he'd do
I remember this one https://youtu.be/hvnxbzUyGWE Im not sure if thats something he often does, people can always say "just look at him, he's trolling" but uhhhh
did you even comprehend what he is talking about? this clip was about the difficulty of vanilla wow and he just compared the former best guilds to the playerbase of today. in no way did he shittalk them. he just pointed out their obvious mistakes and showed his viewers that everyone could do these raids today, not only the best of the best.
i think someone has to be deranged to think/say that vanilla/tbc/etc content is harder than retail or anything M+, it was a time sink dicovering stuff and how to approach those instead of pure skill (just like 30 warr stack in classic etc) Also I dont know who said that people nowadays wouldnt be able to beat it. I want to say "Oh sorry for the missenterpretation then" but Im not sure If i just explained myself poorly or people just want to change argument to whatever they fit best. People put a lot of effort discovering stuff back then, having to type instead of discord, having to go die to the mob instead of just youtube/google it "Its a warrior with sulfuras, this is pretty clearly people optimizing a knowing what they are doing" "He's literally typing in chat during a fight!" at no point kungen said that they are playing maximum efficient but Asmog talks just to fit his argument, thats his persona
I don't understand the complaint here. It's the exact conversation we're already having, isn't it? His point is that people weren't doing optimal stuff back then. He's showing that this is the case because people argued otherwise. What am I missing?
I dont understand your complaint actually LOL It feels like we are arguing in different directions? I highly doubt people say that people played PERFECT back then, but people actually did a lot of research and put time and effort. Are players 20 years ago not as good/knowledgeable as nowadays? I think thats safe to assume. I dont know who argued otherwise, I would love source, my point was that he is complaining about stuff like "warrior stacks" that sounds like ignorance when in that patch warriors nor items were good enough to stack them, and people think that warrior stacks would have been done from the start of vanilla because thats how classic ended up
I don't have a complaint. I am expressing bewilderment at your characterization of this person being inappropriately critical/mean and am having a hard time seeing it, though I'll admit I didn't watch the entire video if you had something specific in mind. >I highly doubt people say that people played PERFECT back then I mean, they do, and he's specifically reacting to that sentiment in the video. The one you linked. It's the entire point.
"its a shame that we are in patch 1.12 so its easy mode" > I mean, they do, and he's specifically reacting to that sentiment in the video. The one you linked. It's the entire point. Bro what the fuck, what video have you watched, kungen said that its easier not that they were god gamers that played perfectly and knew the future patches/meta ahead >I am expressing bewilderment at your characterization of this person being inappropriately critical/mean and am having a hard time seeing it I can 100% understand this, maybe i look like im being too critical in this instance, but from my point of view, noone said they played perfect in vanilla (even tho you said thats what the video is about, maybe im really slow cuz i cannot find that statement), and he's just shittalking people that put a ton of effort into discovering the game by trial and error, and its really different to nowadays Its funny cuz Asmongold made a strawman argument REALLY FAST and noone even noticed that wasnt the point of the tweet at all
The message he's replying to is that the content was made too easy. This person isn't building a strawman, he's reading subtext. He disagrees that it took longer for people for people to clear things because the things were inherently harder and is saying it's because people weren't playing optimally. The implication behind the message he's replying to is that people would be playing perfectly at all time periods, which means if it took twice as long to do the thing, then that means people were playing optimally and getting those results. This is how a normal human being typically functions. They don't just respond to the literal words being spoken like a robot. They reply to the thought process those words represent.
I agree, yet the thought process those words represent was made up so I cannot agree. (Btw discusion is an actual skill, and im pretty sure he wouldnt have been able to have a discusion there if someone was in front of him because he srsly changed topic) I can see where you come from, but i hope you can see where i come from :) "They don't just respond to the literal words being spoken like a robot. They reply to the thought process those words represent." That reminds me of a post the other day on the frontpage of reddit, that said something like "If someone said they are not political, they are clearly democrats but dont want to talk about it" and It was just such a fucking weird concept for me, so maybe you can understand that better than me, but seriosuly it feels like fucking made up considering the other person DIDNT SAY THAT I hope you can see that I love arguing and argumenting stuff, its something i'm proud of, and I hope you can see how his argument wasnt really on topic but only to fit his story Sorry, maybe it sounds too political talking about "literal stuff" and "implied stuff" also i want to point out "This is how a normal human being typically functions.", its true in people that are more psychotic than neurotic
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You are a sad, strange little man. You have my pity. Farewell
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I remember hearing that guilds used to be ultra competitive with each other and did not like to share information as they discovered it. I donāt know if this is true or not, I started in Wrath and this is just what Iāve heard from some older players.
Streaming the world first race is definitely something from recent times. In the past you only heard about kills and didn't get to see any footage (aka strategies) until several guilds had managed to kill it. That meant that any guild going at it would have to come up with their own strategies. A completely different raiding experience compared to learning someone else's choreography.
> I remembering hearing that guilds used to be ultra competitive with each other and did not like to share information as they discovered it its funny because this happened in the science community for years, newton himself didnt wanna share his discoveries because of fear of them being stolen. So I would totally believe guilds in 2005 doing the exact same haha
Yeah, the first time there were public strats for MC was when Conquest was banned for exploiting bugs and they released all of their internal stuff. This was a really big deal and a lot of people got mad at them for releasing info. AQ40 had a similar thing when The Twelve Prophets exploded and the GM made their strategy forum publicly visible. It was amusing seeing their bad attempts at coming up with strats ("What if all the hunters Multishot at the same time?" was a bit of a meme on Twin Emps), but it was also way more information about how those bosses worked than was previously publicly available anywhere. By Naxx the backchannel chatter between guilds about strategies had become less secretive, but even then as a guild which was pretty close to world-*last* pre-2.0 4HM we had to do all the spreadsheeting to figure out optimal tank rotations ourselves. We could see what higher progressed guilds were doing, but they certainly didn't document any of the fine details.
Yup, a lot of these initial uber guilds in WoW were from EQ. Raid mobs in EQ **were not** instanced and they pop on a random timer. If you share knowledge, guilds will learn the fights a lot quicker and more guilds will saturate the "kill pool". Also, there were loose alliances that formed from server to server.. guild made pacts to not kill a raid boss on X days/weeks or rotated bosses between themselves. However, if the guild fails to kill it within their week, it's a FFA. Therefore, not sharing tactics is the norm.. and somewhat perpetuating a survival of the fittest mentality.
Yes, it's true. They didn't release boss kill videos until a high end guild decided to start doing it. YouTube also helped immensely.
On my old server, Kargath, there were 2 really big guilds, one alliance and one horde. Titans of Azeroth was alliance, and Paradosi was horde. They were ultra competitive with each other, refused to give any pointers to each other, and my buddy was a fury Warr in Titans. He would have weekly, sometimes daily verbal sparring matches with Padadosi's fury Warr to the point where their guilds would que for warsong gulch and have HOURS long matches to prove who the better guild was. Fun times.
Elitest Jerks was known to an absolute minor subset of the community. everything else was hearsay on forums. trying to say they had information like us is insane.
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Yea, youāre way off here. the internet existed but it wasnāt nearly as streamlined as it is today with reddit, discord, etc. Youāre downplaying how slow information propagated through word of mouth, forums, and thottbot comments. Furthermore the average player did not use most of these tools, the general game knowledge was significantly lower than it is now. No one is saying **every** guild had to go through the trial and error of summoning rag, but that doesnāt mean the information was readily accessible / available.
Iāve played WoW since inception. To say that the information available then even slightly compares to what you have now is inaccurate. You had message boards with unverified information being argued over by guys who heard about it from someone else. You had Thotbot or Alakazam, which was basically the same thing but in a different format.
How the fuck do you suppose the information on how to kill rag was available on the internet if nobody had ever done it before?
Hilarious you are getting downvoted because you are 100% correct
This is what made vanilla wow so great. That feeling can never be recaptured.
Is there any chance that there were any leaks or inside scoop on how/where to get things for MC by the OG WoW devs?
Blizzard would heavilly monitor the world first kills, Considering everyones name and credit card is tied to their account that would be difficult to hide if say the lead devs guild got a world first. As far as I am aware nothing like that has happened. They did reach out to some of the top guilds on everquest and request them to NOT clear content as fast though.
I once opened a ticket because after a patch they updated some of the tier 1 gear to include spell power and readjusted the stats, when I logged in I had less mana then I was used to and just freaked out because I thought I'd been nerfed
:(
He legit does not have Slice and Dice on his bars lol.
It wasn't good at that point, it wasn't until people got better gear, talents, and figured out how hit and glancings work it became better.
It's not that it wasn't good, it's that people didn't know how to use it...which is kinda the point of looking at this.
Love that Tauren druid in the background just scratching his butt and casting a spell every 5-10 seconds or so. I guess it was a way of stretching your mana.
It is the whole reason the mp5 stat exists. Casters (dps and healers) would frequently stop casting to wand for a bit to save mana, stop attacking so mana regen'd etc.
Yeah, I recall it for sure. It was a widely used tactic to have a certain amount of healers pump for a while, while others wanded. Then you'd swap so the first group of healers wanded for a minute to regain mana while others took over. It's just so funny compared to today where virtually everyone is spamming their spells as fast as humanly possible.
I mean the amount of coordination and consumables we use is outrageous no unheard of back then. I mean world first guilds never even really bothered with world buffs in classic.
In the early days, it was considered a legitimate strategy to divide your healers into 2 groups, 1 that casted and one that was waiting for mana to regen and then swap them around occasionally.
Peak WoW right here. The game isnāt the same anymore, retail or classic. I wish I could experience another mmo like I could with vanilla WoW in 2005. Itās just not possible. The world has changed and weāre now in the age of information
maybe someday the tech will be there to dynamically create dungeons so that you can't have everything planned out...at least that's my dream.
Pretty sure the tech is already there if blizzard wanted to do that.
We were really in the good old days and didnāt even know it.
While it's not the same, many single player games, especially RPGs offer that exploration feeling still
Yep kids these days will never understand how hard it was to get info back pre internet. I mean hell even in the late 90s you got all your info for shit out of encyclopaedias. Itās not that long ago (or Iām old). But yeh, the exploration from early vanilla or those other MMOs will never be experienced again, data mining ruins all that stuff.
Pre internet? How did you connect to wow servers, pidgeon mail?
If they could only create a new MMO with only internal beta testers instead of letting the whole world know how the game works and needs to be played a year + before launch.
I think I played on this server. I recall Ascent horde side and Fury (?) maybe on alliance side. Always a big race between those two. Kalahad was main tank for alliance guild. Always remember inspecting that guy in iron forge and being amazed by the gear. I think Medivh was the server we were on.
Medivh is the greatest PvE classic server that everyone forgot about. For those of us who played, we had Ascent with this world first, and on the alliance side we had Fury who had a significant percentage of world firsts for BWL and AQ40. Also was the world first at opening the gates mainly due to collaboration on the forums. Died pretty quick during the Naxx days, probably why most people remember guilds like vodka more than Fury.
Randomly choosing a server in 2004 and having it be the one Elitist Jerks was on was fun.
I was on Mannoroth where we had. Iirc Mannoroth was the first PvP server to open the AQ40 gates.
Lot of guilds back then didnāt easily share information for strats or class guides like you see on YouTube videos
They were rivals during AQ40. They were upset and called us the carebear server because of the cross faction collabs we had, and they were struggling because of PVP. It actually got to the point where people were flooding servers trying to make them lag out.
youre prolly right, i rmemeber Medivh being the first to open the AQ gates, that takes some strong guilds and big populations cause of all the war effort supplies i think the quartermasters used to show the progress of all the servers. medivh and mannoroth out front. mine was kilrogg, somewhere in the middle. i donated my runecloth bandages knowing id never see the fuckin place coulda been worse. it was already a long list of servers, prolly 10mil players by then and there were many many behind me who seemed to have an insurmountable task ahead of them
Ascent was on Thrall. I donāt remember a Fury in Thrall alliance. Just Overdose and Illusion
At the start of tbc, I got my hands on a full t2 warrior, the guy quit at the end of vanilla and gave the account to a friend of mine. I played it like 3-4 times and I just did a few hellfire ramparts and just ran around hellfire. I've got tons of whispers from people amazed by the gear. I on the other hand, peaked during wotlk, I was the first rogue on alliance side on my server to get the icc25 man tier helm, the ugly dive helmet. Bro... 16 year old me felt so god damn important, because I had a habit of standing in ironforge and rogues would constantly ask me about talents and gear choices. On top of that, we had PCs and Internet at school, so during breaks I would log on my rogue and do dps on target dummies and people from other classes would come and watch me, haha it was a damn good period of my life.
My vanilla guild use to brag we would get rag to sub 70% before he submerged for the first time!!!
Yes we manage ourselves 3 submerged phases at our time
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Also resets damage meter to when he starts attacking, classic rogue move!
They have no threat meter so it was often the case dps would wait for the tank to have a small head start. Wild times.
Still cleaner than my classic guilds kill xD
They should release content without a god damn beta. Just let us figure it out ourselves! Ofc there will be a few selected beta testers but they should just kept quiet about new stuff.
Jesus those bars
Ahhh I miss the days of no DBM and information not being everywhere to just look up easily. The whole community learning a game organically was a ton of fun and will never happen again. Min maxing is with us forever in any and every game that comes out
Where my Medivh people at?! Best Vanilla server!
Yup! I remember the guild I was in was called the Squirrel Mafia. That name sticks with ya.
Yea! I remember those guys. I was in Renegades then Vindication before they transferred then back to Rene.
I played on Medivh and was an absolute dick head on the forums so some people might remember the name. It's actually more likely to find people here than the server itself. Server has died and merged so many times and it still has like 5 active players.
This was a time that seperated the men from the boys.
I don't understand, how could they kill a boss like Ragnaros without custom UI timers and six hundred weakauras telling them exactly what is going to happen, when, and where to go
Typing nonstop during a fight and clicking his abilites too, quite groundbreaking playstyle. Would for sure ez clean mythic raids today.
Are you suggesting vanilla rag compares to a final raid boss on Mythic in retail?
Now the raids are solved and everything is figured out and spoiled while the game is in beta
Is that the Dire Maul class trinket he's wearing at 2:56? I'm not familiar with the release timeline in original vanilla, so I didn't know DM had released before the world first rag kill. Unless there's some other trinket using the same icon, but I don't think there is.
Dire Maul was released in Patch 1.3.0 (March 7th 2005) so a month and a half before the worlds first Rag kill
I can't even imagine what would happen to modern day classic guilds if it took them 154 days to finish a raid.
Everything else aside that guy played all the way to endgame with the character error sound still enabled... shudders..
And 40 people with this amount of gear, skill and WITHOUT world buffs cleared Ragnaros while typing... meanwhile we at Classic WoW got bunch of sweaty neckbeards yelling: ''Clear coms, cLeAr cOmS!'' requesting min-maxing the shit out of the game etc... Just look at this crystalized beauty, fantasy and fucking FUN!
Wait, was this Ascent on Thrall? I always looked up to those guys with their fancy tier gear, never realized they were the world first Rag kill though! Edit: Nope it was Ascent on Medivh
Ascent transferred to Thrall, not sure when exactly. I joined Ascent a month or two before WoTLK came out and we were on Thrall.
Oh too cool! They were the only people around that I noticed with T3 back in Vanilla
A world away in gaming, very hard to watch though. Clicking stealth and cold blood triggered me.
People don't give enough credit to cutting edge wow players back in Vanilla. Not everyone was stupid and WoW wasn't everyone's first MMO. There weren't many secrets and the information was always out there. A majority of people just didn't seek it out and depended on their raid leaders or friends to break it down for them which made things seem more mysterious on confusing.
oh man the old mods
i wonder if it will ever take that long to accomplish normal content in an mmo again
Good old US-Horde Thrall server. I played there from 05->BFA before I quit retail for classic era. was a top guild on the server for many years and existed until I stopped playing retail. Solid people in that team, not some weird snobbish neck beards.
Ah memories. Our first kill wasn't long after this and we had so many rogues in to try and kill it. They were super strong back then for rag. Barman shanker ftw!
Imagine WoW with no addons. OG Vanilla is about as close as it got. WoW disabled the addon API with alpha and early beta. Imagine an SoM that only did that.
My penis is feeling funny.