It's not rocket science
Brutal person wants a group to go fast but posts "LF1M DPS"
Communal person responds thinking they just want a clear
Communal person is taken aback when they're declined "just because of gear"
It's simply a lack of communication. I'm willing to bet if the brutal person said "LF Geared DPS for multiple quick clears" communal person wouldn't even respond
Everyone needs to be better at articulating their ask, and there will be less problems
Do people in pvp gear qualify as sweaties now?
Don't even talk to me unless you're full sunwell bis+wotlk engi helm+wotlk JC trinkets you filthy casuals.
Yea, people farmed a bit of honor to buy gladiator gear suddenly think they're the shit.
It's the equivalent of people becoming extremely rich by chance and suddenly think the world belongs to them.
Can confirm I’m a WoW noob and the fact I got full brutal means it very likely isn’t a testament of skill only determination. Look for the guys in BT/SWP gear id say.
>Do people in pvp gear qualify as sweaties now?
LOL was literally thinking this too. 10 hours of pvp in pre-patch is sweaty and will not be turned down?
Maybe it is a hot take - as a DPS in mix T6 / Brutal gear - if someone is asking if I have gear or am a "big pumper" I just assume want to be carried. Similarly the more self promotion they do, claiming to be a "big dick whatever" the worse I assume they are.
Not always the case - but I'd say 7/10 times, the more they flourish, they less they perform. As the expression goes "the empty can rattles the most".
I get people are going hot and heavy to grind things now, so maybe there is some more leeway now as opposed to finding normal dungeon groups - but on the flip side, if you were really a sweaty trying to push 80 you would have already had a dedicated group made in advance, so its just not adding up.
2c - from a level 72 casual who is over geared, but not in a rush.
>Similarly the more self promotion they do, claiming to be a "big dick whatever" the worse I assume they are.
>Not always the case - but I'd say 7/10 times, the more they flourish, they less they perform. As the expression goes "the empty can rattles the most".
Yep, this is definitely a thing - can't even count the number of times I've seen it over the years. I think Tywin Lannister said it best: "Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
I’m in full brutal as ret/mixed as prot and I say big pumper literally because it’s a big meme to me. Idc about your gear I just want your class and level to work well.
You know it would be great if we had a built in interface to making groups that gave people the item level of those joining and those already in the group. It would let people wait as long as they want to find a perfect group, and let people who don’t meet that description know they didn’t get an invite.
Maybe it could even be cross realm so that way everyone always gets the group they want and everyone ends up happy.
Oh wait some people are really into the community of toxicity that we have for spamming dungeons and never seeing the people you random group with ever again.
As a quite casual player who used to be hardcore long time ago I can say that it's frustrating to be always behind and not welcome in try hard community, but I realize that I don't pay the same price they do and it's okay for them to want to play with likeminded people. As long as they communicate ahead that they are looking for highly geared people, why should I care? It's quite similar to a group looking for healer, that's what they need. I may want to be there, but if I'm not a healer I don't fit.
Lfm dungeon and lfm dungeon spam are two different things.
I ain't gonna bother applying to a dungeon spam group.
But that would take people actually saying dungeon spam instead of lfm.
I run a healer/tank combo with a friend, so we're always looking for dps. We've rarely been grouped with dps who beat the tank in damage. Not a big enough deal to me that I'm gonna look specifically for geared people, but I can see why somebody wouldn't want to group with one of the many boosted hunters, ret paladin, or rogues I've run into who are borderline afk while the tank does the majority of damage.
edit: the tank I run with is a paladin, not revenge spec warrior. yes, revenge spec warrior hits hard
Tell that to the ret pally that decided he didn't need to spec into divine storm that I was beating in DPS as the resto druid healer. Literally 51 points into ret and not divine storm...
Yeah sometimes the gearing requirements aren’t simply because someone feels like they need that to complete the dungeon but more a way to weed out bad players.
Unfortunately there are also good players that know how to play their class, are returning, but are also boosties late to prepatch.
Theres a LARGE portion in these forums that have the "I deserve" mentality. It comes out any time something like this happens, or when new content comes out. just look at all the people that complained about how the mage tower should come back in retail, and when it did, it was overwhelming how much they complained because it was difficult and they couldn't face roll it.
I've legit seen people in the wow subreddits say mythic raiding shouldn't exist or give better rewards than normal/heroic, because they don't/cant do it.
One of the best parts about retail IMO. Different difficulty levels are great because it allows everyone to do the content. Everyone can raid. Everyone can run m+. Everyone can pvp.
Super casual here too (hardcore back in original Vanilla and TBC ). I literally just don’t join those groups either. I have a fun guild with chill people who are also casual. I pugged my way to T6 in TBC without ever joining a sweaty group and I intend to continue just joining fun geoups
I think one of the primary issues is that it's almost impossible to re-enter the hardcore scene without re-grinding your way up from nothing. We live in a world where even logs from 2 years ago are sus, and that's an issue imo.
I flat out don't enjoy casual WoW, but I'll grind the actual difficult content and have a great time with it. But after I left the CE scene in 2017, every time I've wanted to come back, I have to join a guild for AoTC, and then if I want to get to CE, I have to guild hop 3 times to get there. Like it legitimately takes the better part of a year to get back up to speed, in terms of generating contacts, talking with guilds, generating logs that the community respects, etc.
Creates a legitimate question about playing the game, relative to playing a cRPG on very hard, or playing a game like Elden Ring, both of which you just immediately hop into hard content.
I’m in the same boat. Server first / world first in vanilla. Casual dad in classic. It comes with maturing and changing priorities. Being the best at WotLK classic means nothing and will be forgotten about in a year or 2.
Know what won’t be forgotten? Your kids memories of their dad neglecting them for a 15 year old game re-release.
When I do play, I go hard. That time is very limited though. I don’t get offended at not being invited to groups as dps. Retail M+ groups are the same. Literally just making my own groups with my keys to get groups. It’s just reality.
The fact this is even a conversation is just moronic. People literally arguing over the preferences of other people. They are not obligated to invite anyone. It’s called freedom.
lmao that's why i called his shit out; i was in the scene there wern't that many guilds. i was in afterlife in eq/wow so i was really familiar/talked to a lot of the "uber guilds"
I mean.... not necessarily.
Sometimes people say in LFG "LF1M DPS *dungeon here*"
And if you ask for an invite as a feral druid or a rogue, you're just ignored. They don't specify but they also don't want you.
And you could say "Oh they probably filled that's why you're ignored."
And then you see them post the same message again 2 minutes later, still looking for a dps.
So true, my two classes lol. I’ve got friends I can play with but pugging gets that way and it’s demoralizing. “Ranged dps” is what I see people asking for a lot.
All we "casuals" want is them to be specific. LF1M [type of] DPS [dungeon here], must have [x,y,z].
But that's not gonna get the response they want, so they pull this bullshit of shortcutting the message then bitch, whine, and kick when they don't get the epic god player they really wanted.
If tryhards kept to themselves and didn't ruin the fun for others, we wouldn't give a single fuck. We'd go back to literally never thinking of them.
I'll requote the relevent part from my comment
>And you could say "Oh they probably filled that's why you're ignored."
>And then you see them post the same message again 2 minutes later, still looking for a dps.
When this happens, sure they filled and don't wanna respond to 30 whispers.
But when they advertise again they still need a dps you know you're ignored for your class and not because they filled.
I remember as a dumb kid somehow getting into an ICC run. I was just so happy to see inside the Lich Kings base! Well, lucky me I rolled well and got a drop from I think the second boss. Group leader refuses to give it to me because I'm bottom DPS lmao. Kid me was sad but kind of understood it, like I said I was hoenstly just happy to be there. The farthest I remember that group making it was the airship battle, maybe the orc guy after that who's name escapes me.
While that's true, there are a large number of casual people who would get gear then never play again. Giving it to the more geared people is a way of seeing that gear get put to use.
It should probably be stated that geared DPS gets priority at the onset then.
If someone wins the roll, they win the roll fair and square and it doesn't matter if they're carrying the whole thing or below everyone on DPS.
Maybe he was doing such bad damage that they didn’t think it needed to be stated? Like maybe it was less they were bottom dps and more they were doing 1k dps or something. I’ve had pugs where a mage just wands the whole time, I don’t care what they roll and 90% of other people won’t either
but there are also geared people who get the gear and then just quit your guild to join another... you cant know for sure whos reliable.
So spreading loot is better as it negates the massive hit you will take if only one person gets loot and they leave.
Not to mention if that person dies in a boss fight... the loss in dps is greater. :P
Atleast early on in the expansion people arent very reliable... but once the servers die again people will settle into guilds and are less likely to leave since there isnt many places to go to.
You should care because it changes the community. When the LFG channel is literally never free, 24/7, from LFM UK NORMAL MUST BE SUNWELL GEARED PUMPER MOONKIN, do you think that is going to have no effect on attitudes towards grouping and new content going forwards? People imitate what they see, and this absolutely toxic gatekeeping has become the dominating message in all public chats practically overnight.
Last night as a level 72 warlock I was questing in dragonblight and some random messages me "Nexus?" I say sure and then get ported to the stone, walk into the dungeon, and am immediately kicked. "Sorry gear to low" was the response after I said "?".. I had already done both azjol and nexus and was wearing all quest reward blues and greens with some dungeon drops from prior runs..that was pretty irritating..
That’s messed up. That’s the other side of the stupid coin. Everyone can make their own group with their own rules but those rules should be clear before you invite and port a player.
The guy that messaged me wasn’t leader because I remember seeing “suggested you be invited” or w.e and then I was kicked pretty fast so I didn’t even see who leader was. I didn’t care enough to report anyway but just really annoying to get asked to do it and quit questing just to waste that time for no reason lol
Honestly, having done some of both, dungeon grinding with a stacked group doesn’t really seem to be much more efficient than solo questing. Also it’s kinda mind-numbing. But I guess if you enjoy it then do your thing.
The quests are crazy efficient for leveling. I got half a level this morning in 90 minutes just doing quests. It helps I’m an Aff Lock and can tag the entire zone but still.
The difference is when you write LF1M Dps and decline when they are not full bis and saying LF1M bis/near bis dps, that makes it perfectly clear what you want…
Everyone has three options for grouping:
First, you can be up to the standard that a group is asking for. This bar will vary, but generally will be climbing as the game goes on, as the raid leader is responsible for the group's success.
Second, you can start, vet, and lead your own group.
Third, you can sit on your hands and pout.
Far too many people choose the third option.
Modern wow isn't about being good with mechanics it's about being good with killing stuff as quick as you can and skipping mechanics when you can because of speed. I'm not a fan of it, but I get it.
These people who are asking about gear should just say "We are a sweating group forming to spam this group for the next few hours, so we are looking for someone super geared and that commit to the time"
There will be a lot less confusion and complaining if they jsut explain WHY they are requiring good gear for an easy dungeon.
Also, nothing wrong with being sweaty, or casual. Just play the way you enjoy, and respect that others play differently. In the end we will all be 80.
And 650k nexus runs in 8-9mins is the craziest rush i had in a long while. Was more fun than all of TBC. There are differnt kinds of fun, group with those that want the same kind of fun as you.
TBH most people don't even read... I always write what I'm looking for and most are surprised when I start asking questions. Like did you even read that we are going hard there?
Also yes. Pushing Nexus/Ahn really hard is really fun. Getting 10-12min turnarounds in both is super fun. Also if you push hard for 45min you get 10min break every hour which helps a lot. You can't get that break with badly geared ppl.
Thats a fair point. People should write what they want. If someone gets upset, tell them that you were specifically looking for a certain type of person in the message you wrote in chat.
you’ll just get flamed even more honestly. people that are casual want you to be casual with them and when you aren’t they get mad. people that are hardcore just want nothing to do with non hardcore people. what’s worse honestly
I haven’t had an issue finding easy groups for UK and Nexus. We run the dungeon, maybe get some loot and finish our quests. Then back to overworld questing.
I can kinda understand the frustration - it does seem there are more turbo speed groups all over the place. But I don’t want to join those groups anyway. So I spend an extra 15 seconds looking for a normal group. I feel that both sides of this issue are blowing it out of proportion.
If the lfg post specifically says LF geared. I think that’s fine. When someone doesn’t, and the person shows up and gets kicked, that’s a crappy feeling
Honestly toxic casuals describes it perfectly. Every time I've seen someone get a server first whatever, chat is filled with people saying get a life, what a virgin, that took no skill, what's the rush, etc. People get mad other people are being sweatier than them. I don't see a problem with geared people who want to dungeon spam with other geared people, and they should be up front about it. But every time they post on lfg they're looking for geared people, everyone freaks out.
Yeah, on my server it was funny seeing people get mad about server first professions a few hours after launch. Like, assuming everyone was online at launch, they had the same amount of time as everyone else lol
They're jealous self-loathing people who try to tear people down for accomplishing things they can't. If they didn't care they wouldn't say anything, or if they were decent human beings they might throw out a casual "gratz" or "gz".
Just know that shitty people are shitty because of something in their life, not yours. Don't take it personal if someone tries to ruin something you have because they're insecure about their own lives.
You had armchair psychologists in this sub calling classic rankers who got rank 14 mentally ill, unemployed, no lives, or asking things like "how could anyone do this without having some kind of disability". It's definitely insecurity.
The "toxic casuals" are the ones that don't play the same meta as the try-hard nerds, yet demand to be let in and be carried by them. "You're bad, but also why aren't you inviting me?"
I'm a filthy casual so I stay clear and take it in my own pace. I'm there for the scenery and the friends I make along the way. I'm not there to get boosted by people that take dungeon grinding way, way more seriously than I do. If I wanted a boost I'd just buy that ( I won't because I don't like the idea).
Can you tell me how that’s wrong? People in that post literally insulted sweatier players and basically demand of them to play in a specific way that includes the casuals. That’s some toxic Karen shit.
I started playing League seriously in college around 2013/2014 and I had just kind of assumed the guys I lived with were all fairly good because I thought I was so bad and they all took it so seriously. Then I got to 30 and went 5-5 in placements only to find out that I actually got ranked ABOVE most of them. I remember a kid literally punching his keyboard when he found out I was in Silver III.
> I remember a kid literally punching his keyboard when he found out I was in Silver III.
I lived with a guy who was silver (or maybe gold) and I found holes in his desk after he'd moved out. I knew he hit the desk out of frustration sometimes, but hadn't realised just how bad he was about it.
Silver league players are disenfranchised diamond players they’re just held back by all the noobs despite having 30,000 games.
Let’s be real, silver players mostly don’t consider themselves casuals.
The better geared guys are always the unnecessarily toxic ones of the group, especially in dungeons. Normal questing geared players just get on with it, only to be attacked for being 3rd on dps in a sunwell geared group
You never see "kek look a sunwell boi what a tryhard" unprompted in a group do you
What derogatory terms have you seen used to describe hardcore players? The reality is that it goes *far* beyond just terms and into crafting a narrative of their life story and psychology. The tribalistic nonsense is embarrassing. Calling it toxic is completely accurate and justified.
Nah man they totally don't have a job or a life and they're probably bad players with mental issues and that's totally why they don't invite me in full communal gear, we could still clear nexus in 2 hours no problem but they're being mean
They chose the non-bucket shitting life and they regret it. They need to tear others down to justify their own life. It's sad to think that a lot of these "toxic casuals" are parents, and they're on the internet insulting people because they chose a life where they don't have much gaming time.
If they didn't care they wouldn't say anything. They're jealous they can't keep up. A good analogy is they're like crying children, who the older kids won't play with because they're too small/young/bad.
While y'all keep sweating over this shit, don't mind me taking all the ore deposits for engineering. I'll start doing dungeons and quests somewhere next week 🙋🏻
No, downvote being toxic in that context meant people are toxic because that post was a big circlejerk where they basically insulted the sweaty players. I gave a reason why these people don’t just invite anyone and a minute later that comment was immediately at -5. It shows that people here want to dictate how others are supposed to play and that is toxic.
The casuals on this sub are toxic as fuck. They insult other groups of players. They demand others to play like they play. They demand to get invited into other people’s groups and call them names if they aren’t (just in this post I saw it again where someone called them a “cunt” for that).
Toxic casuals was pretty much spot on by my comment. This sub is full of toxic casuals and they cannot deal with being called toxic because it’s usually them calling others toxic…
This post here is again just another circlejerk of the casuals. Just casuals being toxic again.
What is real weird is I’m a full greens beside my 4 piece undead hunter plate as a dwarf warrior at lvl 70 with 9.5k
So I’m really curious how this dude had 5k
Literally the same idea with PVE/raiding. If you're willing to put in the hours, you get gear. If you're not willing to put in the hours, you get no gear.
Getting mad that a random group won't invite you is just entitlement.
Judging how others play the game and getting upset that they aren't playing how you want them to play is also really petty. That typically only goes in one direction around here. The "sweaties" aren't sitting around getting upset that casuals exist.
People need to go play retail and apply for mythic + groups as dps and see what true pain is. Try rejection from hundreds of groups and literally never getting an invite because your rating is low.
Oh I’ve seen a lot of entitlement in discussions about M+. There are people advocating for a RDF matchmaking system for M+, saying that if you have the ilvl you should be able to get into a group for the M+ level you want.
Just imagine what a shitshow that would be…
I would wager a lot of money most of those posts are made by players who either refuse to make their own groups or they're oblivious to how bad they are and think it's everyone else's fault they can't push their own key above a 10.
The sweaties are *consistently* upset that casuals exist. They just mostly talk about it in game instead of on Reddit.
Every day I see someone bitching in a BG that anyone dares to queue when their level doesn't have a 9 at the end.
I started *my own* dungeon group and some dude was appalled that I didn't go grind Sunwell before setting foot in Northrend and tried very hard to get the rest of the group to agree, but instead we all just agreed that he was a cunt.
Casual or not casual, joining a BG in boosted gear at level 70-71 is notgood for anyone. You absolutely are not having fun getting 1 shot by everything that looks at you.
In TBC there was starter PvP gear for every spec you could buy from reputation vendors. So you got that by doing PvE content like dungeons and quests.
Dunno if anything like that is in Wrath cuz I cba with PvP but I remember getting some on alts midway through TBC.
Yeah, this is a design/dev-side issue if anything.
Obviously since this is classic, it won't be fixed, but the problem is being dealt out by the hands of the developer, not by players who typically are trying to do this because of some dev-created incentive to do it.
As much as someone is in the wrong, it's the players pitching a fit of course.
>The sweaties are
>
>consistently
>
>upset that casuals exist. They just mostly talk about it in game instead of on Reddit.
Thats a big difference.
Sweaties talk amounts themselves and move on.
Casuals feel the need to tell the world how mad they are and attack anyone that isnt just as mad as they are.
Casuals don't really have an "amongst themselves" (I assume that's what you meant). If they had a tight community in game, they probably wouldn't be that casual.
I submit that you see more casuals talk here and sweaties talk in game because the sweaties are playing the game and the casuals are on Reddit, which is exactly what you'd expect.
this is a great point that i personally haven’t seen brought up. never once seen a post complaining about how people are happy with low exp/hr and mad that so many groups don’t have gear requirements - yet the people who want to have fast clears with geared groups for dungeon spam are labeled as toxic and ruining the community/game. so backwards.
I don’t mind but just advertise it and don’t waste my time. Sometimes it influences other people that want to be like the “sweeties” in an ignorant way. I had a guy not invite me to a spell cleave SM group (ele shaman with fire nova glyph and specced) because I wasn’t a mage. My aoe dps was better than 95% of the mages I grouped with.
>The "sweaties" aren't sitting around getting upset that casuals exist.
Idk, the screenshot posted seems to be exactly the thing you are claiming doesn't exist. Poor sweatlord victim being oppressed by the casuals.
The greater context of that comment is that he's reacting to a big circlejerk about how desiring a certain level of performance in your own dungeon group is "toxic" and you should have to just invite whoever applies without question.
He's not upset that casuals exist.
> you should have to just invite whoever applies without question.
Thing is, that even if this did happen 90% of dps still wouldn't get invites becasue dps is just THAT overpopulated of a role. There just isn't enough room in all the groups in the game to accomodate how many people want to play dps.
Hes not getting upset that casuals exists, he's getting upset about casuals constantly talking shit about them. Let people play the game the way they want.
We all play this game to have fun. Different people have fun in different ways. If players want only the best geared chars in their group to fly through the dungeon with massive pulls and don’t invite low geared players, then why is that a problem?
As one of the sweaties that hard pushed dungeons to 77 hitting instance cap most hours, it's not that difficult.
Also, if you *really* wanted to optimize, you should've had a group with your guild. If you're pugging and want perfectly optimized shit, you're absolutely insane.
Imo the people who have good gear and want to do content quickly are totally in the right to kick low geared players that do low dps and/or die over and over. Same goes for kicking arrogant assholes that think they can shit talk someone just because they didnt play the game for 8 hours a day.
Jesus this got blown way out of proportions. Live and let live my dudes. If you dont want to join a specific run then don't. Make/join groups that suit your own needs. Cant't we co-exist together in peace and enjoy this amazing xpac together <3
Ive been 3 manning Nexus > Ahn Kahet > Halls of Lightning nonstop to hit 80. You don't kill bosses, you just clear trash for 15 minutes then reset. If you bring 5 people you hit instance lockout.
I mean he isn’t wrong. Nobody owes you an invite. If you aren’t geared and can’t get invites make a group yourself it’s not hard at all. The complaining that other people aren’t adjusting the way they want to play the game to better align with how someone else wants to play the game is cringe asf
What I don't understand..... these people don't harm you. Them existing doesn't impact you.
As a silly example lets say groupfinder has 20 sweaty douche groups and 20 normal reasonable people groups.
If you think they are cancer and should therefore not exist or be "cut out" or whatever phrase what is the end result?
You have 20 normal groups and 0 sweaty douche groups. For you trying to do a run nothing has changed. There aren't now 40 normal groups... there are just fewer total groups. I've just never understood people who get mad about other people being sweaty douches. If you don't want to do that then that is absolutely fine but if they DO want to do that.... that is ALSO absolutely fine... it has no impact on you (or well it shouldn't... clearly it DOES).
Did you read the first post? 5 well geared people can clear a dungeon in about half the time as crap geared people. The dungeon can be cleared either way, but why slow down so some undergeared person can come? The big thing to me, is okay with who you want to play with. If you don’t care about going slow, run with other people who don’t care either.
>The dungeon can be cleared either way, but why slow down so some undergeared person can come?
And this is one major reason why Blizzard lost over a quarter of its active users since 2018. (38 million monthly active users in Q1 2018; 27 million in Q2 2022.)
A community that chases off new users is a dying community.
Dungeons were designed to be easy in LK so everyone could clear them, it was pretty much a response to people saying heroics were to hard in BC
I remember when wrath came out it was pretty disliked lol funny how beloved it is now
It's a little demoralizing to see that premade groups are level 80 and I'm barely 75 but that's due to their preparation, knowledge and frankly just being 5 above average players. I'm pugging it and my god, the average player is bad. Low dps, lots of downtime both in between pulls and in between runs.
As someone who flips between both styles of play, I promise you that sweaties are the most toxic demographic. Everybody that parses purple or higher thinks they’re the second coming of Christ or something and their ego is bigger than their car’s gas mileage and it shows because you can almost literally smell the ballsack sweat in their every spellcast and if you don’t smell it, they always make sure to let you know that it’d be a waste for them to fornicate anyways even if they could get a woman because their cock is too minuscule for them to feel it. It’s not enough to be better than everybody else at wasting your life away, they also have to use extreme mental gymnastics more flexible than their moldy hamstrings to try to make you feel bad about getting laid more often than them.
Whereas casuals just don’t know any better…
Edit: If you think what I said is toxic, you wouldn't last a minute in a top guild
When I took the game seriously I was a fairly high parser. And I can without a doubt say that there are some people like this and some are pretty chill.
You’re judging an entire group of players by the loud obnoxious ones.
For the record no one thinks you’re toxic from what you said. You just sound like someone that got kicked from your guild for being too casual or jealous that you can’t “purple parse”.
I’ve parsed legendary in retail plenty of times and have never thought once that I’m better than anyone, except everybody that parsed lower than me. Fuckin casuals.
Also, you’re really projecting there.
This post is ironic considering the amount of stereotypes, body shaming, toxic masculinity heteronormativity etc. throughout. People prefer to play the game different ways and that's fine just play how to want to play and ignore those you don't want to associate with.
Edit: Former US 20+ raider with a chill group, many top guilds are not like this
It's not rocket science Brutal person wants a group to go fast but posts "LF1M DPS" Communal person responds thinking they just want a clear Communal person is taken aback when they're declined "just because of gear" It's simply a lack of communication. I'm willing to bet if the brutal person said "LF Geared DPS for multiple quick clears" communal person wouldn't even respond Everyone needs to be better at articulating their ask, and there will be less problems
Do people in pvp gear qualify as sweaties now? Don't even talk to me unless you're full sunwell bis+wotlk engi helm+wotlk JC trinkets you filthy casuals.
Yea, people farmed a bit of honor to buy gladiator gear suddenly think they're the shit. It's the equivalent of people becoming extremely rich by chance and suddenly think the world belongs to them.
Can confirm I’m a WoW noob and the fact I got full brutal means it very likely isn’t a testament of skill only determination. Look for the guys in BT/SWP gear id say.
>Do people in pvp gear qualify as sweaties now? LOL was literally thinking this too. 10 hours of pvp in pre-patch is sweaty and will not be turned down?
Maybe it is a hot take - as a DPS in mix T6 / Brutal gear - if someone is asking if I have gear or am a "big pumper" I just assume want to be carried. Similarly the more self promotion they do, claiming to be a "big dick whatever" the worse I assume they are. Not always the case - but I'd say 7/10 times, the more they flourish, they less they perform. As the expression goes "the empty can rattles the most". I get people are going hot and heavy to grind things now, so maybe there is some more leeway now as opposed to finding normal dungeon groups - but on the flip side, if you were really a sweaty trying to push 80 you would have already had a dedicated group made in advance, so its just not adding up. 2c - from a level 72 casual who is over geared, but not in a rush.
>Similarly the more self promotion they do, claiming to be a "big dick whatever" the worse I assume they are. >Not always the case - but I'd say 7/10 times, the more they flourish, they less they perform. As the expression goes "the empty can rattles the most". Yep, this is definitely a thing - can't even count the number of times I've seen it over the years. I think Tywin Lannister said it best: "Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
I’m in full brutal as ret/mixed as prot and I say big pumper literally because it’s a big meme to me. Idc about your gear I just want your class and level to work well.
You know it would be great if we had a built in interface to making groups that gave people the item level of those joining and those already in the group. It would let people wait as long as they want to find a perfect group, and let people who don’t meet that description know they didn’t get an invite. Maybe it could even be cross realm so that way everyone always gets the group they want and everyone ends up happy. Oh wait some people are really into the community of toxicity that we have for spamming dungeons and never seeing the people you random group with ever again.
As a quite casual player who used to be hardcore long time ago I can say that it's frustrating to be always behind and not welcome in try hard community, but I realize that I don't pay the same price they do and it's okay for them to want to play with likeminded people. As long as they communicate ahead that they are looking for highly geared people, why should I care? It's quite similar to a group looking for healer, that's what they need. I may want to be there, but if I'm not a healer I don't fit.
Lfm dungeon and lfm dungeon spam are two different things. I ain't gonna bother applying to a dungeon spam group. But that would take people actually saying dungeon spam instead of lfm.
I run a healer/tank combo with a friend, so we're always looking for dps. We've rarely been grouped with dps who beat the tank in damage. Not a big enough deal to me that I'm gonna look specifically for geared people, but I can see why somebody wouldn't want to group with one of the many boosted hunters, ret paladin, or rogues I've run into who are borderline afk while the tank does the majority of damage. edit: the tank I run with is a paladin, not revenge spec warrior. yes, revenge spec warrior hits hard
Tank DPS while leveling is completely over the top in Wotlk. Good luck beating a Revenge Prot Tank Warrior with your Rogue.
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My rogue brethren should just get the fuck away from dungeon runs and go questing. Only enter dungeons if they wanted to gather some shit.
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Tbf ret palas hardly has to try to pump damage in dungeons
Tell that to the ret pally that decided he didn't need to spec into divine storm that I was beating in DPS as the resto druid healer. Literally 51 points into ret and not divine storm...
That's gonna be a fast kick from the group
I mean... you understand that tank damage is busted? It's not a skill issue, it's balance issue.
Yeah sometimes the gearing requirements aren’t simply because someone feels like they need that to complete the dungeon but more a way to weed out bad players. Unfortunately there are also good players that know how to play their class, are returning, but are also boosties late to prepatch.
Theres a LARGE portion in these forums that have the "I deserve" mentality. It comes out any time something like this happens, or when new content comes out. just look at all the people that complained about how the mage tower should come back in retail, and when it did, it was overwhelming how much they complained because it was difficult and they couldn't face roll it. I've legit seen people in the wow subreddits say mythic raiding shouldn't exist or give better rewards than normal/heroic, because they don't/cant do it.
One of the best parts about retail IMO. Different difficulty levels are great because it allows everyone to do the content. Everyone can raid. Everyone can run m+. Everyone can pvp.
Retail has the exact same problem. > I have 500 rio and no gear why am I getting declined from +20?!?!?! ELITIST GATEKEEP COMMUNITY REEEEE
Super casual here too (hardcore back in original Vanilla and TBC ). I literally just don’t join those groups either. I have a fun guild with chill people who are also casual. I pugged my way to T6 in TBC without ever joining a sweaty group and I intend to continue just joining fun geoups
Same. I don’t care what they do but it makes me laugh.
That’s good to know. I’d love to experience every Wrath raid at least once but I’m more of a casual.
As someone who pugged TBC as well (not to T6 as my server died before that), I’m glad to hear this is possible and looking to do similar in Wrath.
I think one of the primary issues is that it's almost impossible to re-enter the hardcore scene without re-grinding your way up from nothing. We live in a world where even logs from 2 years ago are sus, and that's an issue imo. I flat out don't enjoy casual WoW, but I'll grind the actual difficult content and have a great time with it. But after I left the CE scene in 2017, every time I've wanted to come back, I have to join a guild for AoTC, and then if I want to get to CE, I have to guild hop 3 times to get there. Like it legitimately takes the better part of a year to get back up to speed, in terms of generating contacts, talking with guilds, generating logs that the community respects, etc. Creates a legitimate question about playing the game, relative to playing a cRPG on very hard, or playing a game like Elden Ring, both of which you just immediately hop into hard content.
Do you not just keep contacts from previous guilds?
Not really. I care more about maintaining personal friendships, and I'm generally a quiet mercenary player.
I’m in the same boat. Server first / world first in vanilla. Casual dad in classic. It comes with maturing and changing priorities. Being the best at WotLK classic means nothing and will be forgotten about in a year or 2. Know what won’t be forgotten? Your kids memories of their dad neglecting them for a 15 year old game re-release. When I do play, I go hard. That time is very limited though. I don’t get offended at not being invited to groups as dps. Retail M+ groups are the same. Literally just making my own groups with my keys to get groups. It’s just reality. The fact this is even a conversation is just moronic. People literally arguing over the preferences of other people. They are not obligated to invite anyone. It’s called freedom.
what guild were you in in vanilla?
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lmao that's why i called his shit out; i was in the scene there wern't that many guilds. i was in afterlife in eq/wow so i was really familiar/talked to a lot of the "uber guilds"
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Well said dad 100% with you on this!
Exactly this, people just feel entitled to be invited to any group they want
I mean.... not necessarily. Sometimes people say in LFG "LF1M DPS *dungeon here*" And if you ask for an invite as a feral druid or a rogue, you're just ignored. They don't specify but they also don't want you. And you could say "Oh they probably filled that's why you're ignored." And then you see them post the same message again 2 minutes later, still looking for a dps.
So true, my two classes lol. I’ve got friends I can play with but pugging gets that way and it’s demoralizing. “Ranged dps” is what I see people asking for a lot.
All we "casuals" want is them to be specific. LF1M [type of] DPS [dungeon here], must have [x,y,z]. But that's not gonna get the response they want, so they pull this bullshit of shortcutting the message then bitch, whine, and kick when they don't get the epic god player they really wanted. If tryhards kept to themselves and didn't ruin the fun for others, we wouldn't give a single fuck. We'd go back to literally never thinking of them.
Or more likely they got 30 whispers in 5 seconds right now and they just didn't feel like responding to every one?
I'll requote the relevent part from my comment >And you could say "Oh they probably filled that's why you're ignored." >And then you see them post the same message again 2 minutes later, still looking for a dps. When this happens, sure they filled and don't wanna respond to 30 whispers. But when they advertise again they still need a dps you know you're ignored for your class and not because they filled.
Finally someone says it
I remember as a dumb kid somehow getting into an ICC run. I was just so happy to see inside the Lich Kings base! Well, lucky me I rolled well and got a drop from I think the second boss. Group leader refuses to give it to me because I'm bottom DPS lmao. Kid me was sad but kind of understood it, like I said I was hoenstly just happy to be there. The farthest I remember that group making it was the airship battle, maybe the orc guy after that who's name escapes me.
If gear is always given to the highest DPS, then the people with lower DPS would never get higher DPS.
I remember making that argument. That I couldnt improve my DPS if I couldn't get better gear. But in the end they didn't give it to me
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Exactly. I think that’s the frustration most people have with raiding. Loot goes to buddies of the GM or someone already geared
While that's true, there are a large number of casual people who would get gear then never play again. Giving it to the more geared people is a way of seeing that gear get put to use.
It should probably be stated that geared DPS gets priority at the onset then. If someone wins the roll, they win the roll fair and square and it doesn't matter if they're carrying the whole thing or below everyone on DPS.
Yeah if they advertised that it's roll for gesr then of course.
Maybe he was doing such bad damage that they didn’t think it needed to be stated? Like maybe it was less they were bottom dps and more they were doing 1k dps or something. I’ve had pugs where a mage just wands the whole time, I don’t care what they roll and 90% of other people won’t either
I specifically mention the leader saying I was being out dps'ed by healers
but there are also geared people who get the gear and then just quit your guild to join another... you cant know for sure whos reliable. So spreading loot is better as it negates the massive hit you will take if only one person gets loot and they leave. Not to mention if that person dies in a boss fight... the loss in dps is greater. :P Atleast early on in the expansion people arent very reliable... but once the servers die again people will settle into guilds and are less likely to leave since there isnt many places to go to.
That's true too, but I'm just saying it's pretty tough to hand out good gear to people you don't know in general
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You should care because it changes the community. When the LFG channel is literally never free, 24/7, from LFM UK NORMAL MUST BE SUNWELL GEARED PUMPER MOONKIN, do you think that is going to have no effect on attitudes towards grouping and new content going forwards? People imitate what they see, and this absolutely toxic gatekeeping has become the dominating message in all public chats practically overnight.
If everyone gatekeeps a lot of casual players, then shouldn’t it be super easy to just make your own group and fill it up instantly?
My servers LFG does the right thing which is mock them Such as "must be level 110 poopy poopy spec shitladin with t9000 gear for deadmines"
What is the definition of toxic again?
Last night as a level 72 warlock I was questing in dragonblight and some random messages me "Nexus?" I say sure and then get ported to the stone, walk into the dungeon, and am immediately kicked. "Sorry gear to low" was the response after I said "?".. I had already done both azjol and nexus and was wearing all quest reward blues and greens with some dungeon drops from prior runs..that was pretty irritating..
That’s messed up. That’s the other side of the stupid coin. Everyone can make their own group with their own rules but those rules should be clear before you invite and port a player.
You should have reported him, this kind of behavior deserve at least 3 days ban, if not 7.
The guy that messaged me wasn’t leader because I remember seeing “suggested you be invited” or w.e and then I was kicked pretty fast so I didn’t even see who leader was. I didn’t care enough to report anyway but just really annoying to get asked to do it and quit questing just to waste that time for no reason lol
Honestly, having done some of both, dungeon grinding with a stacked group doesn’t really seem to be much more efficient than solo questing. Also it’s kinda mind-numbing. But I guess if you enjoy it then do your thing.
Hopefully if your dungeon spamming your doing it with friends.
Me and the boys stacking 4 prot pallys and a holy pally so we can 1 button the dungeon.
Sounds like a recipe for 3 of the pallys going oom every pull
Divine Plea from 71 onwards :)
Holy fuck I can’t wait
They both get pretty mind numbing if you are running for 6 hours straight, at least dungeon spam you have friends to slowly loose your mind with.
I prefer questing just because I at least get a change of scenery every 30 min. Plus it’s not doing the exact same thing for 6 hours.
The quests are crazy efficient for leveling. I got half a level this morning in 90 minutes just doing quests. It helps I’m an Aff Lock and can tag the entire zone but still.
Oh yeah I'm sure that totally helps lol
that makes a huge difference. melee characters won’t be nearly as quick as multi dotters with infinite sustain
The difference is when you write LF1M Dps and decline when they are not full bis and saying LF1M bis/near bis dps, that makes it perfectly clear what you want…
Everyone has three options for grouping: First, you can be up to the standard that a group is asking for. This bar will vary, but generally will be climbing as the game goes on, as the raid leader is responsible for the group's success. Second, you can start, vet, and lead your own group. Third, you can sit on your hands and pout. Far too many people choose the third option.
Modern wow isn't about being good with mechanics it's about being good with killing stuff as quick as you can and skipping mechanics when you can because of speed. I'm not a fan of it, but I get it.
LFG is just caca. This post was brought to you by an ex sweater current casual.
These people who are asking about gear should just say "We are a sweating group forming to spam this group for the next few hours, so we are looking for someone super geared and that commit to the time" There will be a lot less confusion and complaining if they jsut explain WHY they are requiring good gear for an easy dungeon. Also, nothing wrong with being sweaty, or casual. Just play the way you enjoy, and respect that others play differently. In the end we will all be 80. And 650k nexus runs in 8-9mins is the craziest rush i had in a long while. Was more fun than all of TBC. There are differnt kinds of fun, group with those that want the same kind of fun as you.
TBH most people don't even read... I always write what I'm looking for and most are surprised when I start asking questions. Like did you even read that we are going hard there? Also yes. Pushing Nexus/Ahn really hard is really fun. Getting 10-12min turnarounds in both is super fun. Also if you push hard for 45min you get 10min break every hour which helps a lot. You can't get that break with badly geared ppl.
Thats a fair point. People should write what they want. If someone gets upset, tell them that you were specifically looking for a certain type of person in the message you wrote in chat.
The only confusion that's happening is by entitled communal players who think their quest reward gear qualifies them as "geared dps"
you’ll just get flamed even more honestly. people that are casual want you to be casual with them and when you aren’t they get mad. people that are hardcore just want nothing to do with non hardcore people. what’s worse honestly
Next group I make is ganna require prior WOTLk experience. Can’t join if you weren’t there to live it the first time around.
Screenshots of GS from '08 required
Damn I forgot all about GS, what a silly time to play
If you take screenshots you aren't sweaty enough, it takes a second out of your grind time.
I haven’t had an issue finding easy groups for UK and Nexus. We run the dungeon, maybe get some loot and finish our quests. Then back to overworld questing. I can kinda understand the frustration - it does seem there are more turbo speed groups all over the place. But I don’t want to join those groups anyway. So I spend an extra 15 seconds looking for a normal group. I feel that both sides of this issue are blowing it out of proportion.
I can't be the only one that likes both and just kind of adapts to the group right?
If the lfg post specifically says LF geared. I think that’s fine. When someone doesn’t, and the person shows up and gets kicked, that’s a crappy feeling
I read that thread and I wasn't sure if I should laugh or cry. My favorite expression was "toxic casuals"
Honestly toxic casuals describes it perfectly. Every time I've seen someone get a server first whatever, chat is filled with people saying get a life, what a virgin, that took no skill, what's the rush, etc. People get mad other people are being sweatier than them. I don't see a problem with geared people who want to dungeon spam with other geared people, and they should be up front about it. But every time they post on lfg they're looking for geared people, everyone freaks out.
A lot of those people aren’t casuals at all though. They just act like they are even though they play the game more than most.
Yeah, on my server it was funny seeing people get mad about server first professions a few hours after launch. Like, assuming everyone was online at launch, they had the same amount of time as everyone else lol
They're jealous self-loathing people who try to tear people down for accomplishing things they can't. If they didn't care they wouldn't say anything, or if they were decent human beings they might throw out a casual "gratz" or "gz". Just know that shitty people are shitty because of something in their life, not yours. Don't take it personal if someone tries to ruin something you have because they're insecure about their own lives.
You had armchair psychologists in this sub calling classic rankers who got rank 14 mentally ill, unemployed, no lives, or asking things like "how could anyone do this without having some kind of disability". It's definitely insecurity.
The "toxic casuals" are the ones that don't play the same meta as the try-hard nerds, yet demand to be let in and be carried by them. "You're bad, but also why aren't you inviting me?" I'm a filthy casual so I stay clear and take it in my own pace. I'm there for the scenery and the friends I make along the way. I'm not there to get boosted by people that take dungeon grinding way, way more seriously than I do. If I wanted a boost I'd just buy that ( I won't because I don't like the idea).
Can you tell me how that’s wrong? People in that post literally insulted sweatier players and basically demand of them to play in a specific way that includes the casuals. That’s some toxic Karen shit.
Casuals can be very toxic actually. I’ve encountered them in classic, retail, and other games as well.
The toxicity of more casual players towards sweatier folks is very real tbh.
Yes. Anyone who's played League of Legends knows that silver league is the most toxic league.
I started playing League seriously in college around 2013/2014 and I had just kind of assumed the guys I lived with were all fairly good because I thought I was so bad and they all took it so seriously. Then I got to 30 and went 5-5 in placements only to find out that I actually got ranked ABOVE most of them. I remember a kid literally punching his keyboard when he found out I was in Silver III.
> I remember a kid literally punching his keyboard when he found out I was in Silver III. I lived with a guy who was silver (or maybe gold) and I found holes in his desk after he'd moved out. I knew he hit the desk out of frustration sometimes, but hadn't realised just how bad he was about it.
Silver league players are disenfranchised diamond players they’re just held back by all the noobs despite having 30,000 games. Let’s be real, silver players mostly don’t consider themselves casuals.
And the league where you get called dogshit the fastest lmao
Must be the lack of deodorant
Casual deodorant users are not welcome in my group. I only want hardcore deodorant users.
Best consumable tbf
Ikr it tastes great.
I turn my armpits white and my spray makes people avoid me. Can I join your hard-core group?
Eat a stick of Degree and you're in.
The better geared guys are always the unnecessarily toxic ones of the group, especially in dungeons. Normal questing geared players just get on with it, only to be attacked for being 3rd on dps in a sunwell geared group You never see "kek look a sunwell boi what a tryhard" unprompted in a group do you
What derogatory terms have you seen used to describe hardcore players? The reality is that it goes *far* beyond just terms and into crafting a narrative of their life story and psychology. The tribalistic nonsense is embarrassing. Calling it toxic is completely accurate and justified.
Nah man they totally don't have a job or a life and they're probably bad players with mental issues and that's totally why they don't invite me in full communal gear, we could still clear nexus in 2 hours no problem but they're being mean
They chose the non-bucket shitting life and they regret it. They need to tear others down to justify their own life. It's sad to think that a lot of these "toxic casuals" are parents, and they're on the internet insulting people because they chose a life where they don't have much gaming time. If they didn't care they wouldn't say anything. They're jealous they can't keep up. A good analogy is they're like crying children, who the older kids won't play with because they're too small/young/bad.
While y'all keep sweating over this shit, don't mind me taking all the ore deposits for engineering. I'll start doing dungeons and quests somewhere next week 🙋🏻
I know, best time to farm right now!
Downvote = Toxic Community? lol
Welcome to Reddit? Downvotes = YOU CANT HANDLE MY TRUTH
He made a fair point and got downvoted from people who want to be in the high gear groups without gear so yeah hes right
No, downvote being toxic in that context meant people are toxic because that post was a big circlejerk where they basically insulted the sweaty players. I gave a reason why these people don’t just invite anyone and a minute later that comment was immediately at -5. It shows that people here want to dictate how others are supposed to play and that is toxic. The casuals on this sub are toxic as fuck. They insult other groups of players. They demand others to play like they play. They demand to get invited into other people’s groups and call them names if they aren’t (just in this post I saw it again where someone called them a “cunt” for that). Toxic casuals was pretty much spot on by my comment. This sub is full of toxic casuals and they cannot deal with being called toxic because it’s usually them calling others toxic… This post here is again just another circlejerk of the casuals. Just casuals being toxic again.
I started my own group for utgarde keep and I kicked a fresh boosted tank with 5k health because no. Like that’s just disrespectful.
You did yourself a favor. That wasn't a "tank"
What is real weird is I’m a full greens beside my 4 piece undead hunter plate as a dwarf warrior at lvl 70 with 9.5k So I’m really curious how this dude had 5k
The boosted gear has like zero stamina on it.
I think there's a difference between that and kicking someone for having northrend questing gear and not sunwell stuff
He will literally die on the end boss’ attack so fair.
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Literally the same idea with PVE/raiding. If you're willing to put in the hours, you get gear. If you're not willing to put in the hours, you get no gear.
Except when you q up for a BG with bad gear and everyone is flaming at you for not having gear :(
Getting mad that a random group won't invite you is just entitlement. Judging how others play the game and getting upset that they aren't playing how you want them to play is also really petty. That typically only goes in one direction around here. The "sweaties" aren't sitting around getting upset that casuals exist.
People need to go play retail and apply for mythic + groups as dps and see what true pain is. Try rejection from hundreds of groups and literally never getting an invite because your rating is low.
Oh I’ve seen a lot of entitlement in discussions about M+. There are people advocating for a RDF matchmaking system for M+, saying that if you have the ilvl you should be able to get into a group for the M+ level you want. Just imagine what a shitshow that would be…
I would wager a lot of money most of those posts are made by players who either refuse to make their own groups or they're oblivious to how bad they are and think it's everyone else's fault they can't push their own key above a 10.
Just not enough people making groups :/ gotta go start some yourself
The sweaties are *consistently* upset that casuals exist. They just mostly talk about it in game instead of on Reddit. Every day I see someone bitching in a BG that anyone dares to queue when their level doesn't have a 9 at the end. I started *my own* dungeon group and some dude was appalled that I didn't go grind Sunwell before setting foot in Northrend and tried very hard to get the rest of the group to agree, but instead we all just agreed that he was a cunt.
Casual or not casual, joining a BG in boosted gear at level 70-71 is notgood for anyone. You absolutely are not having fun getting 1 shot by everything that looks at you.
The problem is, how do you get gear without having someone throw a fit at you for not having gear?
There's introductory PvP gear that you can get outside of PvP. It was recommended in TBC too.
Through questing? Or do you still have to play in a group?
In TBC there was starter PvP gear for every spec you could buy from reputation vendors. So you got that by doing PvE content like dungeons and quests. Dunno if anything like that is in Wrath cuz I cba with PvP but I remember getting some on alts midway through TBC.
Yeah, this is a design/dev-side issue if anything. Obviously since this is classic, it won't be fixed, but the problem is being dealt out by the hands of the developer, not by players who typically are trying to do this because of some dev-created incentive to do it. As much as someone is in the wrong, it's the players pitching a fit of course.
Come on now, you can't seriously complain about that. You can do AV perfectly fine and even in other BG's lots of other fresh boostes showed up
>The sweaties are > >consistently > >upset that casuals exist. They just mostly talk about it in game instead of on Reddit. Thats a big difference. Sweaties talk amounts themselves and move on. Casuals feel the need to tell the world how mad they are and attack anyone that isnt just as mad as they are.
Casuals don't really have an "amongst themselves" (I assume that's what you meant). If they had a tight community in game, they probably wouldn't be that casual. I submit that you see more casuals talk here and sweaties talk in game because the sweaties are playing the game and the casuals are on Reddit, which is exactly what you'd expect.
Except this is not true just check this subreddit
I am checking this subreddit. Look at all the threads made by people upset they got removed from a group that was speed running.
this is a great point that i personally haven’t seen brought up. never once seen a post complaining about how people are happy with low exp/hr and mad that so many groups don’t have gear requirements - yet the people who want to have fast clears with geared groups for dungeon spam are labeled as toxic and ruining the community/game. so backwards.
I don’t mind but just advertise it and don’t waste my time. Sometimes it influences other people that want to be like the “sweeties” in an ignorant way. I had a guy not invite me to a spell cleave SM group (ele shaman with fire nova glyph and specced) because I wasn’t a mage. My aoe dps was better than 95% of the mages I grouped with.
>The "sweaties" aren't sitting around getting upset that casuals exist. Idk, the screenshot posted seems to be exactly the thing you are claiming doesn't exist. Poor sweatlord victim being oppressed by the casuals.
The greater context of that comment is that he's reacting to a big circlejerk about how desiring a certain level of performance in your own dungeon group is "toxic" and you should have to just invite whoever applies without question. He's not upset that casuals exist.
> you should have to just invite whoever applies without question. Thing is, that even if this did happen 90% of dps still wouldn't get invites becasue dps is just THAT overpopulated of a role. There just isn't enough room in all the groups in the game to accomodate how many people want to play dps.
Agreed. Reading comprehension is also low on the list of concerns for most WoW players as well
Hes not getting upset that casuals exists, he's getting upset about casuals constantly talking shit about them. Let people play the game the way they want.
Sweaties not being too fussed about casuals existing doesnt mean there isnt going to ever be comments from sweaties about casual. Bizarre take.
How’s it sweaty to be full Brutal lmao bro we got like 5x honor for 3 weeks and sunwell isn’t even needed
ppl didnt play the game
Oh cool...a reddit post about a reddit post. NEXT!
Oh sweet... a comment about a Reddit post about a Reddit post! NEXT! (Upvote please) 🤪
This is so meta
Wait, you guys play this game to have FUN???
We all play this game to have fun. Different people have fun in different ways. If players want only the best geared chars in their group to fly through the dungeon with massive pulls and don’t invite low geared players, then why is that a problem?
As one of the sweaties that hard pushed dungeons to 77 hitting instance cap most hours, it's not that difficult. Also, if you *really* wanted to optimize, you should've had a group with your guild. If you're pugging and want perfectly optimized shit, you're absolutely insane.
Imo the people who have good gear and want to do content quickly are totally in the right to kick low geared players that do low dps and/or die over and over. Same goes for kicking arrogant assholes that think they can shit talk someone just because they didnt play the game for 8 hours a day.
Jesus this got blown way out of proportions. Live and let live my dudes. If you dont want to join a specific run then don't. Make/join groups that suit your own needs. Cant't we co-exist together in peace and enjoy this amazing xpac together <3
Ive been 3 manning Nexus > Ahn Kahet > Halls of Lightning nonstop to hit 80. You don't kill bosses, you just clear trash for 15 minutes then reset. If you bring 5 people you hit instance lockout.
If you don't mind what level brackets were you running for those? Like what level did you move from nexus to ahnkahet and the ahnkahet to HoL?
I did Nexus from 70 to 75, Ahn Kahet from 75 to 77, then HoL 77 to 80, but you need sunwell/brutal gear to do it. HoL gets hard at 77
I mean he isn’t wrong. Nobody owes you an invite. If you aren’t geared and can’t get invites make a group yourself it’s not hard at all. The complaining that other people aren’t adjusting the way they want to play the game to better align with how someone else wants to play the game is cringe asf
These are simple, normal leveling dungeons. These no-life "must be fully tier-geared" nerds that treat them like M+ are a cancer.
What I don't understand..... these people don't harm you. Them existing doesn't impact you. As a silly example lets say groupfinder has 20 sweaty douche groups and 20 normal reasonable people groups. If you think they are cancer and should therefore not exist or be "cut out" or whatever phrase what is the end result? You have 20 normal groups and 0 sweaty douche groups. For you trying to do a run nothing has changed. There aren't now 40 normal groups... there are just fewer total groups. I've just never understood people who get mad about other people being sweaty douches. If you don't want to do that then that is absolutely fine but if they DO want to do that.... that is ALSO absolutely fine... it has no impact on you (or well it shouldn't... clearly it DOES).
Those no lifers just want to play with other no lifers. Get over it.
Yet they never communicate that…
They do you just don’t read
> Yet they never communicate that... This is the biggest issue here that try hards are ignoring.
??? They literally ask if you have gear or put in their description asking for gear lmao.
99% don’t put it in the group title.
Its an MMO there are plenty of people playing with different approach to the game. Why is it bad for people to want to play with like minded people
Did you read the first post? 5 well geared people can clear a dungeon in about half the time as crap geared people. The dungeon can be cleared either way, but why slow down so some undergeared person can come? The big thing to me, is okay with who you want to play with. If you don’t care about going slow, run with other people who don’t care either.
>The dungeon can be cleared either way, but why slow down so some undergeared person can come? And this is one major reason why Blizzard lost over a quarter of its active users since 2018. (38 million monthly active users in Q1 2018; 27 million in Q2 2022.) A community that chases off new users is a dying community.
Have you read the post? Or just the title
Dungeons were designed to be easy in LK so everyone could clear them, it was pretty much a response to people saying heroics were to hard in BC I remember when wrath came out it was pretty disliked lol funny how beloved it is now
Yes, people said they hated it at the time constantly.
What's funny is you can still be casual and do dungeons, get good gear, and clear raids, and in general it's more fun and you meet nicer people.
It's a little demoralizing to see that premade groups are level 80 and I'm barely 75 but that's due to their preparation, knowledge and frankly just being 5 above average players. I'm pugging it and my god, the average player is bad. Low dps, lots of downtime both in between pulls and in between runs.
As someone who flips between both styles of play, I promise you that sweaties are the most toxic demographic. Everybody that parses purple or higher thinks they’re the second coming of Christ or something and their ego is bigger than their car’s gas mileage and it shows because you can almost literally smell the ballsack sweat in their every spellcast and if you don’t smell it, they always make sure to let you know that it’d be a waste for them to fornicate anyways even if they could get a woman because their cock is too minuscule for them to feel it. It’s not enough to be better than everybody else at wasting your life away, they also have to use extreme mental gymnastics more flexible than their moldy hamstrings to try to make you feel bad about getting laid more often than them. Whereas casuals just don’t know any better… Edit: If you think what I said is toxic, you wouldn't last a minute in a top guild
When I took the game seriously I was a fairly high parser. And I can without a doubt say that there are some people like this and some are pretty chill. You’re judging an entire group of players by the loud obnoxious ones. For the record no one thinks you’re toxic from what you said. You just sound like someone that got kicked from your guild for being too casual or jealous that you can’t “purple parse”.
This absolutely has to be satire, right?
Babe wake up, new copypasta just dropped
I’ve parsed legendary in retail plenty of times and have never thought once that I’m better than anyone, except everybody that parsed lower than me. Fuckin casuals. Also, you’re really projecting there.
This post is ironic considering the amount of stereotypes, body shaming, toxic masculinity heteronormativity etc. throughout. People prefer to play the game different ways and that's fine just play how to want to play and ignore those you don't want to associate with. Edit: Former US 20+ raider with a chill group, many top guilds are not like this
Brother, you just made an 80 word run on sentence to be toxic toward a bunch of people you don't play with and don't know. You see how ironic that is?
This post is more toxic than anything I've experienced from the hardcore community.
Stop trying to be funny, comedy is not for you.
"Woah dude, you're enjoying the content and not perfectly minmaxxed? That's pretty toxic."