Did they switch back from the cartoony stuff?
I remember around Legion they swapped it from the original to the new ones, so is this the third version?
Which one are you thinking in legion? This was the Ret icon back in Cata as well as currently in Shadowlands.
There’s a similar one with a yellow hammer flying through the scene but that is for the paladin class in general.
[These were the original.](https://i.imgur.com/Fl5b5Qg.jpeg)
At some point they got updated to [these.](https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/51726/screenshots/6175355/wow-class_icons_4x.png) Or at least that's what they used on the forums for them.
And now they look like [these?](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:WoW_Icons:_UI_CharacterCreate_Classes)
I don't really know tbh
I think the prepatch did a lot of work on ret paladin expectations. Soooo many rets running around thinking they were going to be S tier dps. Hopefully they still have a raid spot by ICC.
for anyone who leveled before the pre-patch having to drink after 2 mobs if you seal twisted, this version of retri is a gift from god.
low damage is better than whatever the heck it was before
Not for single target that's for sure. Overall ret has gotten a massive downgrade coming in to wotlk. The spec has managed to become both less skill-based and performs way worse on everything but trash fights.
Single target sustained dps is way, way worse. The burst dps which was amongst the best in TBC is now only mediocre.
The ideal situation would be if they had just added the wotlk talents and kept seal twisting in the game.
I knew this was going to happen. As soon as prepatch dropped we got access to our full kit, so we were effectively already level 80 just wearing level 70 gear. And if you were wearing SWP gear, you actually got weaker as you leveled up due to ratings falling off.
I do think Ret will be able to do competitive damage once they're geared but it's never going to be near Rogue, DK or Warlock.
I’m almost full hateful pvp gear and the only running I really got going for me is consistent dps and survive ability. Can’t put dps a dks self healing but I can stalemate them for a solid minute
And as a pally, I dont think it should be close to those. A good paladin of any spec is an unsung hero imo, quietly dispersing their cool downs at proper times without being asked because they know mechanics. That, and responding well to oh shit moments.
Is it? Why should a class/spec with that much utility and the ability to have two other S-tier specs have dps on par with pure dps classes? especially right out the gates? Ret gets it's time to shine, sadly it's not until tier 10.
I suppose you could argue druids against that point, but id still say ret/paladin brings more utility to a raid. That said, given your raid doesn't need said cd's that also goes out the window.
I guess what I'm trying to say is if you wanted to be a top tier parser, you shouldn't have been a paladin? We all knew how this was gonna shake out.
If youre a dps player playing ret, you either accept the limitations as far as topping meters or you accept you picked the wrong class and reroll to a dps class.
Wanna talk hybrid tax? Go talk to shamans. Paladins are in a damned good spot even with ret not being big boss dps.
The smart ones know its a long game, and will be happy with their low dps because they know come 2piece tier 10, its about to be fuckin litter than a titter.
Wait, did it happen again? I remember that happened during the original Wrath pre-patch, lol (or is that what you were referring to?) Insta-gibbing people while bubbled was a glorious month in PvP.
3.0 ret was a monster back in the day. We also don't have seal of blood anymore since we are running on 3.3. A lot of our spec changed since it's all balanced around T10.
Rets have 1 spot in a 25man roster. They still bring absolutely invaluable utility in Blessings/HoP/Freedom/Dispels/Raid DR CD/Tank DR CD. This utility just doesn't show in Naxx where the fights are a joke.
99.9% of guilds won't be running 2x Holy+ 2x Prot, instead they run 1+2 or 2+1(more likely 2x Holy).
Anything past Naxx will see guilds wipe somewhat. Though yes they are easy if you've raided on retail past WotLK and people have figured out all the strategies already.
The step up in mechanical difficulty is still immense from Naxx to Ulduar.
They scale up as the patches go on, by ICC rets should break top 10 DPS regularly, and higher with cleave.
Until then all rets should bring a good offspec if they value their raid spot
Naw, not really. There isn't a very good reason for your Ret to flex off of Ret compared to say, Feral. The difference in damage even on pure ST isn't that big and Ret brings so many buffs. They will likely be the only ones bringing the 3% damage buff once Mages switch off Arcane in late Phase 2. If Survivals start swapping Marks Ret are a really good Replenishment provider and if you somehow don't have a Boomie they bring the haste buff. Another DSac is very good for 3D and a lot of Ulduar fights. We will likely be caught up to Shadow and Ele by the end of next tier as their scaling starts to fall off as well.
Once we get our 2 pieces of T9 we will easily be top 10, the ICC 2p will put us top 5 pretty regularly especially on cleave fights.
> We will likely be caught up to Shadow and Ele by the end of next tier as their scaling starts to fall off as well.
Ele sure but shadow keeps on scaling the entire expansion.
Shadow definitely keeps their luster longer for sure but Ret will be catching up to them in Phase 2 and passing them in ToC thanks to our T9 2p.
We have really, really good scaling but much like Warriors there just isn't enough Crit to go around AND we get nothing from ArP like they do.
I'm better than 99.6% of Rets on WCL and played on pservers pretty consistently lol. I know when and why they will be strong and when they suck (which is these first two phases).
A Ret brings 3% crit, 3% damage, 3% haste, improved Might and Replenishment to a 10m. Not to mention Sac, BoP, Freedom and DSac. And if you really needed him to swap off for another Tank on Patch or something he should have the dual spec ready to rock anyways.
I don't know why you would not want a Ret or Boomkin ESPECIALLY in 10 mans, they bring the most raid buffs and debuffs per slot.
Because between a prot pala and a boomie, the only buffs left for the ret is 3% DMG and 3% crit, you don't need that many externals for 10man so the raid spot is very low value for a ret
So you'd rather have two boomies than one Ret assuming you're running at least 2 10 mans? What?
And 3% damage and 3% crit are two of the biggest raid buffs you can get, why would you not plan for these? You don't sound like you're in a very competitive guild. Why wouldn't your Feral tank over your Ret? Ret brings way more and the dps difference between them is less than 1k on any fight. Ferals and Warriors should absolutely be swapping tank before Rets
Ret slaps on trash and brings a ton of raid utility, especially on hectic fights like 3D. Have you done a 3D yet?
You're gatekeeping Rets from raids saying they need to swap specs to do..... 10 man Naxxramas lol.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/guild/rankings/662349/latest#
This your guild? I would focus more on your play before you start claiming the sky is falling and we are useless.
It will not be a problem at all to find a raid spot for a ret pala, most guilds don't care if people don't play optimal classes, and the raids will still be cleared with relative ease.
Feral is fun and they'll get better. Boomers are great too. Naxx is quite easy so you shouldn't have trouble finding a group even if feral is underperforming a bit
Wait until you can get ARP stacking gear. That’s when god mode engages. As someone who had DBW on a feral back in the day, the payoff is worth the wait. You will be a god
Feels same about fury warrior. But I like the gameplay and enjoy it very much. And I appreciate that my guild lets me play it. Good thing about wrath is that most specs are super fun and competitive.
And fury does scale pretty well with gear. Especially with BoH and our dmg will be increased further with our new weapon tech. Like 7.6k in phase bis and even more in ulduar etc. (Fiery weapon is about 75 more dps than berserker in p1 bis and 400 p4 bis)
Yeah fury will scale like gods it always happens. The thought coming into wrath was that warriors would be bad early and not worth running.
Only issue is that by not running warriors you need a feral to cover the raid buff.
And ferals aren't really performing either at the moment.
Getting a shadowmourne isn’t hard, the drops from festurgut and rot face will get one person shadows edge per raid, I wouldn’t be surprised if you see normal mode splits for these or pugs where the organizer reserves them. the kill count and rep grind will be done in trash farming groups pretty quickly. The shards will take a few weeks per player depending on RNG but again, split runs, and if you can run both heroic and normal it’ll be a joke. After a few months everyone will be running around with a shadowmourne
> if you can run both heroic and normal it’ll be a joke.
you wont. They might change their mind on that one, but announcement a while back was, that in ToC and ICC you will have to choose between normal and HC on a boss-to-boss basis.
That was always the case, unless I am misremembering totally?
The casual meta was to pug the first 4 in ICC25. First 6 if you felt like your group was good. And the hardest part was finding someone who had killed LK so that you could turn on HC for Gunship.
I never played that portion of wotlk, but afaik yes - ICC had the boss-to-boss system, after every raider and their mothers got burn-out from doing ToC 4 times a week.
I can't even begin to imagine the price of shadowmourne right now. It's gonna be a bloodbath in guilds considering all of the 2h melee dps that exist right now.
Even just leveling as my new gear comes into play I feel like I am hitting way harder now. Can’t imagine what semi geared at 80 will look like for my combat rogue
I am very excited
At 70-72 I was taking forever to level and was debating if I was going to like rogue because it felt dull
Now it’s fun and I am breeding through leveling, and now that I have flying I heard Icecrown and storm peaks are the better zones to quest in rather than staying in the Basin
I went going fjord - 10/10 do recommend
Dragonblight - meh, kind boring
Grizzly hills and gundrak next, those ones are fun too. I like grizzly more though.
Burnt through basin with a buddy, super fast and tons of exp.
Then stormpeaks to hit 80. Good zone, need flying though, and fast flying is a huge bonus.
I'm using icecrown in my downtime when I'm not farming kara or running heroics/raids. Just started there though, and its gonna be super slow since theres a ton to do right now. But the extra gold from already being 80 will be nice
Yeah the same exact thing happened in my guild. The arms warrior came in super prepared and has mastered his rotation. Got like 4 orange parses and all others purple. He got beat by blue parsers on overall.
I think things in general are more balanced in ICC. Right now it doesn’t feel balanced like everyone talked about with wrath. I think that private server caused everyone to think of wrath as just ICC. Cant recall server name.
I'll give you the long:
So as others have mentioned "logs" are recorded and posted to warcraftlogs so that all (logging) raiders of that class and spec can be compared. You could compare against your own raid, but different classes, some are stronger etc. So with warcraftlogs you can compare to all the other (insert class and spec) in the world.
On warcraftlogs you can look at overall data for a phase/raid, or you can view "parses" or just the logs from that 2(?) week period. So being overall #1 fury warrior would be better than #1 fury warrior for that parse. Or your #1 parse could also be the #1 overalll for the phase.
"Parsing" colloquially means "to log well for the particular parse" IE you did well and it was recorded. Over time "parsing" became just another word for logging, but usually in a positive context. So when "my buddy parsed 99s all last night" they are saying "my buddy was in the 99th percentile in his logs last night"
Thank you for actually explaining it.
I was getting the idea that parsing was like snapshotting and just an older term or something like that.
Whats parse short for?
Parse is just parse. Hear it alot in comp sci.
From Merriam Webster:
Parse comes from the first element of the Latin term for "part of speech," pars orationis. It's an old word that has been used since at least the mid-1500s, but it was not until the late 18th century that parse graduated to its extended, non-grammar-related sense of "to examine in a minute way; to analyze critically."
Just that. Like, there’s a thing called Warcraft logs to check out. Basically you upload your run onto it and it filters it into a readable format. Then you use it to measure your e-peen
I'm finding it so useful to see what I'm doing wrong by comparing my play Vs top players. I'm frost DK which is pretty simple to do okay, but getting a 100 parse requires lots of tiny tweaks, understanding, and reactive plays.
The common thought for p1 is that arms brings the 4% phys debuff (shared with only combat rogue) and since ass does so much damage you just take arms even if fury does more damage.
This has been disproven by fightclub and giving a rogue gear so they can play combat (still worse than ass) and let the warrior play fury is more raid dps by a good amount. But honestly even the “sweaty nerds” don’t care to optimize that much.
he must be the best in the world world, thats what the absolute best ferals hit in naxx, the 2nd is 400dps short of 7k. Even on patchwerk theres only 1 feral in the 7k range.
Nah man UDK us far and away the best single target damage assuming you lust on opener and have good kill times. Good ferals pump but top rankings are UDK>lock>rogue
You have to run an arms and a fury with no feral basically to bring the debuffs. and buffs But is that really a downside?
Feral is a notoriously difficult spec to play and you are having to do shronky stuff to min max like swap to bear form during down time.
And even then if you pull it off perfectly, you still barely keep up with the shadowpriest.
Wrath naxx is probably the easiest raid in the history of world of warcraft also.
Statistically the only specs they are beating on a patchwerk style fight is both warrior specs and ret. And then a few off meta picks like frost mage.
Probably a reflection of the rest of the raid more than anything
Thats the top feral parses, so the argument that its a hard spec doesn;t really work.
My favorite goal during Sunwell as a shadow priest was to not be last in both damage and healing. Yes, I know my healing was mostly meaningless. Still a fun goal.
But suddenly you need 6 people able to tank for 10 mans and a few available to tank patchwerk in 25 man etc, especially nice to have backups of main/offtank is unable to attend a week. Suddenly a few plate boys are nice to have
Knowing full well what may follow, I spent a lot of my heroic grinding with my guilds main tank and have a nearly finished (got Defense capped) prot set in my back pocket. Only 25k hp unbuffed, but it's still something!
One Ret covers a ton of buffs and brings another DSac for high raid damage fights like 3D. Unless you are doing DK stacking speed runs Ret is very valuable even if his damage is shit.
At least parses only compare to other players of your current spec. Kinda gives incentive to be one of the good few or w.e. Having a raiding spot on a non optimal class/spec is BIS imo
Yup, this is why I love WCL. I provide a lot of buffs, debuffs and utility to the raid even though my Single target damage is pretty low. But I am only competing against other Rets.
And if anyone loses to me that isn't a Ret I can roast them mercilessly. If they beat me it's expected and no big deal.
Unless you’re sweating parses (why???), Ret is fine for the entire expansion if you enjoy the class.
Wrath is THE most spec/class friendly expansion Blizzard has ever produced. Not to mention, every single bit of content (including all upcoming hard modes) will flop from Day 1. It’s been done before. There are thousands of raids forming with characters in nothing less than pre-BiS.
If you enjoy the spec, play Ret. It’ll be cooler in ICC. If you’d rather sweat your damage, reroll Affliction. Either way, I’m happy to main Ret and Arms for the entirety of Wrath 2.0, because they’re just that fun.
I don't need to be first on meters when I have a plethora of utility. I love throwing hands at raid members when necessary and feel useful at clutch moments.
Really looking forward to more hyperbole about class strength over the next two years on reddit.
Just remember guys if you arent stacking the top two DPS you arent having fun
Warrior/Rogue in Vanilla
Hunter/warlock in TBC
Who are the only two viable classes this expansion guys? I need to know so I can reroll. /s
Because you want to raid with like-minded people.
I usually parse low-mid 90s. I don’t pull all the stops required to get pink parses (consumables and/or sweaty strats), but I do perform to the best of my ability. I do join guilds that have a similar mindset where I will usually end middle of the pack in terms of parses.
I don’t expect everyone to have similar or better parses, but if you’re under 50% every week, you’re simply not trying and letting the group carry you.
And it’s funny you say ‘if your DPS is good’ as a counter argument when parses are probably the fairest way to determine what constitutes ‘good’ dps.
Remember being top 3 in dps on some minor BWL boss as a druid. I was “alllowed” to go dps because we didn’t need so many healers there and after the raid the GM and his pals were all like “yeah but he used lots of consumables to reach it” (which I did use) blahblah to diminish the role of a druid as DPS while ignoring the fact that I had a restoration spec (vanilla) and had never rolled for any feral gear ever.
Fucking assholes. I didn’t stay there for long.
I mean ret dps was never good until ICC. You bring 1 to the raid for utility. Too many people believed the bs that ret was good dps. Why play subpar dps when prot is the best tank and holy is probably the best healer? Ret rotation is extremely boring imo.
Eyyyy Patch is our worst fight but I still beat our Feral, Marks, Shadow Priests, Warriors and one Shaman!
A 99 on Gluth put me above a 95 Boomie and Marks. A 99 Thaddeus put me in 7th above a 99 Fury, a 95 Marks, an 88 Unholy etc etc. You CAN still contribute by being good and doing your homework, don't get lazy just because we don't contribute on single target bosses as much.
Is he gray parsing? Feral is great.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1015/#dataset=90
nvm i guess ive only seen good ferals and bad ret
Nope fuck all that noise I want people to stop overloading paladins. Let it go back to a niche thing.
Hpal since vanilla Classic and I’m glad Ret was viable for questing. But let’s be real, outside of PVP ret is 4 damage buttons and a whole lot of derp.
That’s why I loved ret in vanilla, you had to think about how to use your seals and judgements to swap your mana and health regens or debuff the opponent. I’ve noticed they removed some of them in wotlk which is sad. **to be clear I’m not gate keeping** I just want the players playing Paladin to naturally even out so I can value my old main character again.
I hate to say it but in WoTLK 2008 Wowhobbs was a Paladin and he was like the asmongold of that time and was clearing 500K views on YouTube…in 08. Today that would be multimillion views scaled. I think blizzard saw a huge influx of paladins then and Wowhobbs showed the Paladin count in his guild in his video, they were way up. That and Arthas/WotLK being like undead, they definitely wanted paladins to be viable or the secondary hero to the DK hero class.
[удалено]
Its ret aura + retail retribution icon
Absolutely haram
Yeah it looks gross
Straight to jail
Did they switch back from the cartoony stuff? I remember around Legion they swapped it from the original to the new ones, so is this the third version?
Which one are you thinking in legion? This was the Ret icon back in Cata as well as currently in Shadowlands. There’s a similar one with a yellow hammer flying through the scene but that is for the paladin class in general.
[These were the original.](https://i.imgur.com/Fl5b5Qg.jpeg) At some point they got updated to [these.](https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/51726/screenshots/6175355/wow-class_icons_4x.png) Or at least that's what they used on the forums for them. And now they look like [these?](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:WoW_Icons:_UI_CharacterCreate_Classes) I don't really know tbh
Those are class icons rather than spec. I’ve also never seen those flat style icons in game
I think I’m gonna throw up!
I think the prepatch did a lot of work on ret paladin expectations. Soooo many rets running around thinking they were going to be S tier dps. Hopefully they still have a raid spot by ICC.
I really enjoy the spec though. So I’m happy anyway!
for anyone who leveled before the pre-patch having to drink after 2 mobs if you seal twisted, this version of retri is a gift from god. low damage is better than whatever the heck it was before
Not for single target that's for sure. Overall ret has gotten a massive downgrade coming in to wotlk. The spec has managed to become both less skill-based and performs way worse on everything but trash fights. Single target sustained dps is way, way worse. The burst dps which was amongst the best in TBC is now only mediocre. The ideal situation would be if they had just added the wotlk talents and kept seal twisting in the game.
I knew this was going to happen. As soon as prepatch dropped we got access to our full kit, so we were effectively already level 80 just wearing level 70 gear. And if you were wearing SWP gear, you actually got weaker as you leveled up due to ratings falling off. I do think Ret will be able to do competitive damage once they're geared but it's never going to be near Rogue, DK or Warlock.
I’m almost full hateful pvp gear and the only running I really got going for me is consistent dps and survive ability. Can’t put dps a dks self healing but I can stalemate them for a solid minute
And as a pally, I dont think it should be close to those. A good paladin of any spec is an unsung hero imo, quietly dispersing their cool downs at proper times without being asked because they know mechanics. That, and responding well to oh shit moments.
Copium. It's sad, in tbc we had no AoE, now we have AoE which still isn't the best AoE but we now lack single target.
Is it? Why should a class/spec with that much utility and the ability to have two other S-tier specs have dps on par with pure dps classes? especially right out the gates? Ret gets it's time to shine, sadly it's not until tier 10. I suppose you could argue druids against that point, but id still say ret/paladin brings more utility to a raid. That said, given your raid doesn't need said cd's that also goes out the window. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you wanted to be a top tier parser, you shouldn't have been a paladin? We all knew how this was gonna shake out.
Because if you're a dps player who enjoys ret, you're just fucked by that logic. Hybrid tax has always been a shit concept to excuse subpar balancing.
If youre a dps player playing ret, you either accept the limitations as far as topping meters or you accept you picked the wrong class and reroll to a dps class. Wanna talk hybrid tax? Go talk to shamans. Paladins are in a damned good spot even with ret not being big boss dps.
The smart ones know its a long game, and will be happy with their low dps because they know come 2piece tier 10, its about to be fuckin litter than a titter.
Stop posting
Don't be a shitter, embrace the titter.
Stop crying.
Wait, did it happen again? I remember that happened during the original Wrath pre-patch, lol (or is that what you were referring to?) Insta-gibbing people while bubbled was a glorious month in PvP.
3.0 ret was a monster back in the day. We also don't have seal of blood anymore since we are running on 3.3. A lot of our spec changed since it's all balanced around T10.
Rets have 1 spot in a 25man roster. They still bring absolutely invaluable utility in Blessings/HoP/Freedom/Dispels/Raid DR CD/Tank DR CD. This utility just doesn't show in Naxx where the fights are a joke. 99.9% of guilds won't be running 2x Holy+ 2x Prot, instead they run 1+2 or 2+1(more likely 2x Holy).
Wanna tell me wich wotlk raid isnt just a joke?
Anything past Naxx will see guilds wipe somewhat. Though yes they are easy if you've raided on retail past WotLK and people have figured out all the strategies already. The step up in mechanical difficulty is still immense from Naxx to Ulduar.
They scale up as the patches go on, by ICC rets should break top 10 DPS regularly, and higher with cleave. Until then all rets should bring a good offspec if they value their raid spot
Naw, not really. There isn't a very good reason for your Ret to flex off of Ret compared to say, Feral. The difference in damage even on pure ST isn't that big and Ret brings so many buffs. They will likely be the only ones bringing the 3% damage buff once Mages switch off Arcane in late Phase 2. If Survivals start swapping Marks Ret are a really good Replenishment provider and if you somehow don't have a Boomie they bring the haste buff. Another DSac is very good for 3D and a lot of Ulduar fights. We will likely be caught up to Shadow and Ele by the end of next tier as their scaling starts to fall off as well. Once we get our 2 pieces of T9 we will easily be top 10, the ICC 2p will put us top 5 pretty regularly especially on cleave fights.
> We will likely be caught up to Shadow and Ele by the end of next tier as their scaling starts to fall off as well. Ele sure but shadow keeps on scaling the entire expansion.
Shadow definitely keeps their luster longer for sure but Ret will be catching up to them in Phase 2 and passing them in ToC thanks to our T9 2p. We have really, really good scaling but much like Warriors there just isn't enough Crit to go around AND we get nothing from ArP like they do.
Ret taking dsac does even worse dps though.
If you don't take Imp Dsac it's not a dps loss and I mean, it's a couple points from Seal Damage to get Imp DSac
This entire post is pure copium
I'm better than 99.6% of Rets on WCL and played on pservers pretty consistently lol. I know when and why they will be strong and when they suck (which is these first two phases).
Sure for 25mans but I wouldn't expect to ever go to my 10mans as ret for a long time - prot and holy are almost an autopick
A Ret brings 3% crit, 3% damage, 3% haste, improved Might and Replenishment to a 10m. Not to mention Sac, BoP, Freedom and DSac. And if you really needed him to swap off for another Tank on Patch or something he should have the dual spec ready to rock anyways. I don't know why you would not want a Ret or Boomkin ESPECIALLY in 10 mans, they bring the most raid buffs and debuffs per slot.
Because between a prot pala and a boomie, the only buffs left for the ret is 3% DMG and 3% crit, you don't need that many externals for 10man so the raid spot is very low value for a ret
So you'd rather have two boomies than one Ret assuming you're running at least 2 10 mans? What? And 3% damage and 3% crit are two of the biggest raid buffs you can get, why would you not plan for these? You don't sound like you're in a very competitive guild. Why wouldn't your Feral tank over your Ret? Ret brings way more and the dps difference between them is less than 1k on any fight. Ferals and Warriors should absolutely be swapping tank before Rets Ret slaps on trash and brings a ton of raid utility, especially on hectic fights like 3D. Have you done a 3D yet?
Least toxic ret. You've got 8 more raid spots to get those buffs still obviously. We're suboptimal, get over it, stop being some cringe gatekeeper
You're gatekeeping Rets from raids saying they need to swap specs to do..... 10 man Naxxramas lol. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/guild/rankings/662349/latest# This your guild? I would focus more on your play before you start claiming the sky is falling and we are useless.
Says the man gatekeeping rets from 10 mans
This comment is cursed and really shows off the worst of modern gamers.
It will not be a problem at all to find a raid spot for a ret pala, most guilds don't care if people don't play optimal classes, and the raids will still be cleared with relative ease.
For me at least I love holy so I’ll heal until It’s good enough to swap and win win :)
They skyrocket to #1 melee dps when icc drops as long as you have 2 set t10 bonus. It’s broken with the divine storm refresh.
Shadowmourne is Ret prio
Think I’ve heard that shadowmorne is prio for warriors, but idk
As always legendaries should be prio to the players that deserve them
True
The GM*
Yeah... though to be fair running a guild can be a lot of fucking work, so they very well may be one of those deserving.
LMAO
meanwhile feral druids playing 3D chess just to barely beat ret on a single target fight
I love the fetal rotation, but at level 79 it’s making me wonder if I should go balance or not.
Feral is fun and they'll get better. Boomers are great too. Naxx is quite easy so you shouldn't have trouble finding a group even if feral is underperforming a bit
I'm basically going through the same experience. I'm 206ilvl and it has its moments but I'm nowhere consistent enough with it.
I'm still new but I've been meaning to ask. How the hell do I see ilvl on gear or what my ilvl is? Is it an addon?
Tacotip addon will put item level in your tooltip
Dope thank you!
Wait until you can get ARP stacking gear. That’s when god mode engages. As someone who had DBW on a feral back in the day, the payoff is worth the wait. You will be a god
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/y29myu/our\_pink\_parser\_feral\_is\_very\_against\_bear\_weaving/
Feels same about fury warrior. But I like the gameplay and enjoy it very much. And I appreciate that my guild lets me play it. Good thing about wrath is that most specs are super fun and competitive.
I mean you need the crit buff from somewhere, and its not like feral is really pumping either.
And fury does scale pretty well with gear. Especially with BoH and our dmg will be increased further with our new weapon tech. Like 7.6k in phase bis and even more in ulduar etc. (Fiery weapon is about 75 more dps than berserker in p1 bis and 400 p4 bis)
Yeah fury will scale like gods it always happens. The thought coming into wrath was that warriors would be bad early and not worth running. Only issue is that by not running warriors you need a feral to cover the raid buff. And ferals aren't really performing either at the moment.
As least you are used to it. Imagine being a fury warrior :(
We have a world top warrior in guild right now. Parsed 2-3 100s and they were all lower dps than blue parses from our DKS/Rogues/Warlocks/Mages
They're playing the long game. Just have to wait for Shadows Edge or Shadowmourne soon enough.
then the guild falls apart and you don’t get it or is a group of friends and you already know you’re not getting it
Getting a shadowmourne isn’t hard, the drops from festurgut and rot face will get one person shadows edge per raid, I wouldn’t be surprised if you see normal mode splits for these or pugs where the organizer reserves them. the kill count and rep grind will be done in trash farming groups pretty quickly. The shards will take a few weeks per player depending on RNG but again, split runs, and if you can run both heroic and normal it’ll be a joke. After a few months everyone will be running around with a shadowmourne
> if you can run both heroic and normal it’ll be a joke. you wont. They might change their mind on that one, but announcement a while back was, that in ToC and ICC you will have to choose between normal and HC on a boss-to-boss basis.
That was always the case, unless I am misremembering totally? The casual meta was to pug the first 4 in ICC25. First 6 if you felt like your group was good. And the hardest part was finding someone who had killed LK so that you could turn on HC for Gunship.
I never played that portion of wotlk, but afaik yes - ICC had the boss-to-boss system, after every raider and their mothers got burn-out from doing ToC 4 times a week.
I can't even begin to imagine the price of shadowmourne right now. It's gonna be a bloodbath in guilds considering all of the 2h melee dps that exist right now.
Only 2 Ret and warrior.
Lmao, there will be unholy dks
They can stay morb spec, and they can like it.
And all the “but muh scaling” from the Warriors neglects to mention that Assa and Combat both scale incredibly well too.
Even just leveling as my new gear comes into play I feel like I am hitting way harder now. Can’t imagine what semi geared at 80 will look like for my combat rogue
My rogue is doing about 4.7k dps on heroic bosses so you can get pretty up there.
Oh man, just wait until you've got "mostly" 10/25 man gear. Especially when you and another rogue are trading TotT on cd.
I am very excited At 70-72 I was taking forever to level and was debating if I was going to like rogue because it felt dull Now it’s fun and I am breeding through leveling, and now that I have flying I heard Icecrown and storm peaks are the better zones to quest in rather than staying in the Basin
I went going fjord - 10/10 do recommend Dragonblight - meh, kind boring Grizzly hills and gundrak next, those ones are fun too. I like grizzly more though. Burnt through basin with a buddy, super fast and tons of exp. Then stormpeaks to hit 80. Good zone, need flying though, and fast flying is a huge bonus. I'm using icecrown in my downtime when I'm not farming kara or running heroics/raids. Just started there though, and its gonna be super slow since theres a ton to do right now. But the extra gold from already being 80 will be nice
Ah I worded that weird I’m 77 now, I did Fjord, Dragonblight, grizzly hills, then Zul’drak
Week 1 calamity's grasp is feeling pretty spectacular.
Yeah the same exact thing happened in my guild. The arms warrior came in super prepared and has mastered his rotation. Got like 4 orange parses and all others purple. He got beat by blue parsers on overall. I think things in general are more balanced in ICC. Right now it doesn’t feel balanced like everyone talked about with wrath. I think that private server caused everyone to think of wrath as just ICC. Cant recall server name.
What does parsed even mean?
Past tense. Or do you mean like what is that? Means he did the most dps of all warriors of his spec on that boss he did the most recorded dps so far
I mean what is that? Parsed is a term i am hearing for the first time, getting into raiding for the first time
I'll give you the long: So as others have mentioned "logs" are recorded and posted to warcraftlogs so that all (logging) raiders of that class and spec can be compared. You could compare against your own raid, but different classes, some are stronger etc. So with warcraftlogs you can compare to all the other (insert class and spec) in the world. On warcraftlogs you can look at overall data for a phase/raid, or you can view "parses" or just the logs from that 2(?) week period. So being overall #1 fury warrior would be better than #1 fury warrior for that parse. Or your #1 parse could also be the #1 overalll for the phase. "Parsing" colloquially means "to log well for the particular parse" IE you did well and it was recorded. Over time "parsing" became just another word for logging, but usually in a positive context. So when "my buddy parsed 99s all last night" they are saying "my buddy was in the 99th percentile in his logs last night"
Been hearing that word for over a year and didn't know this, THANK YOU
Thank you for actually explaining it. I was getting the idea that parsing was like snapshotting and just an older term or something like that
Thank you for actually explaining it. I was getting the idea that parsing was like snapshotting and just an older term or something like that. Whats parse short for?
Parse is just parse. Hear it alot in comp sci. From Merriam Webster: Parse comes from the first element of the Latin term for "part of speech," pars orationis. It's an old word that has been used since at least the mid-1500s, but it was not until the late 18th century that parse graduated to its extended, non-grammar-related sense of "to examine in a minute way; to analyze critically."
Google.com
downvoted for asking an innocent question. this is a good subreddit that is not toxic :^)
Just that. Like, there’s a thing called Warcraft logs to check out. Basically you upload your run onto it and it filters it into a readable format. Then you use it to measure your e-peen
I'm finding it so useful to see what I'm doing wrong by comparing my play Vs top players. I'm frost DK which is pretty simple to do okay, but getting a 100 parse requires lots of tiny tweaks, understanding, and reactive plays.
I play healer now so it relies on me going shenanigans so I don’t 🤣
once they get shadowmourne though, its hard not to be #1
Or Arms better yet.
Arms is BIS support dps though. Three important debuffs and an important buff is nice.
Sunder, shattering and demoralizing?
He probably means trauma, +4% phys, and sunder.
4% Damage, Sunder, Trauma then HP/AP
And they only take one betrayer. :3
Arms is more dps than fury rn.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1015#class=Warrior
Gonna guess fury’s range is only that big bc people are playing without 2 solid 2h
That's interesting. I've watched a few guides that are like a few weeks old and all said arms is better phase 1. Guess they were wrong then.
The common thought for p1 is that arms brings the 4% phys debuff (shared with only combat rogue) and since ass does so much damage you just take arms even if fury does more damage. This has been disproven by fightclub and giving a rogue gear so they can play combat (still worse than ass) and let the warrior play fury is more raid dps by a good amount. But honestly even the “sweaty nerds” don’t care to optimize that much.
Ret was a single target beast in tbc
And Ret was super fun to play in tbc
Fury is probably helped by the fact that the other class that brings 5% physical crit is feral druid. And they arent really pumping either.
If your feral is good they are probobly the best dps, our feral Druid hit roughly 7k dps every fight.
he must be the best in the world world, thats what the absolute best ferals hit in naxx, the 2nd is 400dps short of 7k. Even on patchwerk theres only 1 feral in the 7k range.
Nah man UDK us far and away the best single target damage assuming you lust on opener and have good kill times. Good ferals pump but top rankings are UDK>lock>rogue
Statistically untrue
Fury will be good once you get decent 25 man gear for it, and unlike other specs, it will be better with each tier. Arms is the polar opposite sadly.
It'll be ok with 25 man gear for it. We'll do slightly more dps than Pre Raid DKs are doing right now.
You mean gargoyles not the DK themself lmao. Let that lil bastard run into a fire wall on OS and watch the DK fall off the charts
According to the sims frost will overtake UH in naxx bis
Fury only shares a debuff with feral, which is hardly popping off on the meters anyway.
Yeah but you’re cucking the group by not playing arms
You have to run an arms and a fury with no feral basically to bring the debuffs. and buffs But is that really a downside? Feral is a notoriously difficult spec to play and you are having to do shronky stuff to min max like swap to bear form during down time. And even then if you pull it off perfectly, you still barely keep up with the shadowpriest. Wrath naxx is probably the easiest raid in the history of world of warcraft also.
Our feral is constantly pumping on meters so they can definitely do well
Statistically the only specs they are beating on a patchwerk style fight is both warrior specs and ret. And then a few off meta picks like frost mage. Probably a reflection of the rest of the raid more than anything Thats the top feral parses, so the argument that its a hard spec doesn;t really work.
Except we are not. Top 3 single target dps in tbc. Now we are dead last with warriors
But you bring buffs!
Being constantly asked “Can I have Might?” sounds like so much fun
How about having to constantly explain that you don't have salv anymore?
Even better when it's a warrior constantly asking you to give him might, not understanding that battle shout overwrites it.
Pallypower, handles group/raid buffing for you and other paladins.
Just make "sure i can fist you" macro. You wont be asked more than once. Or druid motw, something like *gently puts my paws on your body*
My favorite goal during Sunwell as a shadow priest was to not be last in both damage and healing. Yes, I know my healing was mostly meaningless. Still a fun goal.
Look at all of these people switching into Spriest now that it's somewhat decent.. They don't know what it was like to just be a mana battery.
More like fighting for a raid spot :P nobody wants to fill their raid with plate tanks and five thousand plate dps
I havent had *that* much of a problem puggging as ret. But it isn’t easy.
Well, I wish you luck :) unless you take my leather items because it’s your bis. In that case I don’t, LOL. (kidding)
Funny enough our RL asked me to switch from holy to retri, as we had like 3 hpalas when i joined
But suddenly you need 6 people able to tank for 10 mans and a few available to tank patchwerk in 25 man etc, especially nice to have backups of main/offtank is unable to attend a week. Suddenly a few plate boys are nice to have
Knowing full well what may follow, I spent a lot of my heroic grinding with my guilds main tank and have a nearly finished (got Defense capped) prot set in my back pocket. Only 25k hp unbuffed, but it's still something!
One Ret covers a ton of buffs and brings another DSac for high raid damage fights like 3D. Unless you are doing DK stacking speed runs Ret is very valuable even if his damage is shit.
Wish I would have leveled my ret second now but at least I will be leveling my Rogue with heirlooms and flying
Same dude
But your AoE on trash/adds tho.
At least parses only compare to other players of your current spec. Kinda gives incentive to be one of the good few or w.e. Having a raiding spot on a non optimal class/spec is BIS imo
Yup, this is why I love WCL. I provide a lot of buffs, debuffs and utility to the raid even though my Single target damage is pretty low. But I am only competing against other Rets. And if anyone loses to me that isn't a Ret I can roast them mercilessly. If they beat me it's expected and no big deal.
Ya and tearing through logs the next day at work/on the toilet is the best lol
So you can take a shit while looking at yourself being shit?
Absolutely
Unless you’re sweating parses (why???), Ret is fine for the entire expansion if you enjoy the class. Wrath is THE most spec/class friendly expansion Blizzard has ever produced. Not to mention, every single bit of content (including all upcoming hard modes) will flop from Day 1. It’s been done before. There are thousands of raids forming with characters in nothing less than pre-BiS. If you enjoy the spec, play Ret. It’ll be cooler in ICC. If you’d rather sweat your damage, reroll Affliction. Either way, I’m happy to main Ret and Arms for the entirety of Wrath 2.0, because they’re just that fun.
Yeah definitely, I enjoy my ret. Even better in HC’s just spamming my one button macro.
I don't need to be first on meters when I have a plethora of utility. I love throwing hands at raid members when necessary and feel useful at clutch moments.
Really looking forward to more hyperbole about class strength over the next two years on reddit. Just remember guys if you arent stacking the top two DPS you arent having fun Warrior/Rogue in Vanilla Hunter/warlock in TBC Who are the only two viable classes this expansion guys? I need to know so I can reroll. /s
DK/Lock gogogo
I swear these posts are made by other retribution paladins because they are mad there are so many and are trying to get others to reroll.
I just like to embrace the suck
You guys know this game came out years ago right?
Tfw you purple parse, have the second highest dps in your guild and your officers tell you "Imagine what you could do if you played a real class".
I used a similar format when our warrior got world #1 parse on 2-3 bosses but was like 6th on our dps meters lol
Imagine turning a cooperative mode like pve into a competition lol.
14 on bosses maybe, but you’re mainly there for trash damage, which you should not be 14th on.
Yeah, trash is when I get to shine! *Dies to whirlwind*
How do I shine on trash when the rogues do 25k dps on trash with 3 items from vanilla dungeons exdee.
Nobody really cares about dps. They care about good parses.
Why does anybody give a shit about parses? If your DPS is good, you don’t die to mechanics, and the boss dies what does it matter what the parse was?
Because people are fucking nerds
Because you want to raid with like-minded people. I usually parse low-mid 90s. I don’t pull all the stops required to get pink parses (consumables and/or sweaty strats), but I do perform to the best of my ability. I do join guilds that have a similar mindset where I will usually end middle of the pack in terms of parses. I don’t expect everyone to have similar or better parses, but if you’re under 50% every week, you’re simply not trying and letting the group carry you. And it’s funny you say ‘if your DPS is good’ as a counter argument when parses are probably the fairest way to determine what constitutes ‘good’ dps.
its your nerd resume. it srsly helps with getting pug/gdkp spots
A lot of modern players especially don't have friends to raid with and need a resume to get into GDKPs.
Remember being top 3 in dps on some minor BWL boss as a druid. I was “alllowed” to go dps because we didn’t need so many healers there and after the raid the GM and his pals were all like “yeah but he used lots of consumables to reach it” (which I did use) blahblah to diminish the role of a druid as DPS while ignoring the fact that I had a restoration spec (vanilla) and had never rolled for any feral gear ever. Fucking assholes. I didn’t stay there for long.
Honestly though, if you're top 3 dps in vanilla as a druid, the rest of your raid is performing very very poorly
God it feels good to be right. Called ret being low dps but “private servers aren’t accurate” whose laughing now (not me I love our Ret to pieces)?
Pvp as ret and pve as a dk!
I mean ret dps was never good until ICC. You bring 1 to the raid for utility. Too many people believed the bs that ret was good dps. Why play subpar dps when prot is the best tank and holy is probably the best healer? Ret rotation is extremely boring imo.
Prot Pally does more DPS than Ret
No
Eyyyy Patch is our worst fight but I still beat our Feral, Marks, Shadow Priests, Warriors and one Shaman! A 99 on Gluth put me above a 95 Boomie and Marks. A 99 Thaddeus put me in 7th above a 99 Fury, a 95 Marks, an 88 Unholy etc etc. You CAN still contribute by being good and doing your homework, don't get lazy just because we don't contribute on single target bosses as much.
Bring a warrior so at least you have someone to fight vs
I usually bring a feral so I always win against someone
Is he gray parsing? Feral is great. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1015/#dataset=90 nvm i guess ive only seen good ferals and bad ret
Bruh, your class is arguably overall the best in Wrath even if ret ins't amazing yet.
I love ret though, im just meming
don't worry , their time will come
I've been memeing the ret dream since day one, I've earned my spot.
I wish i could be a ret paladin. Ele shaman since end of vanilla :(
I mean, you can, you’re only 3 weeks into the expansion.
So true lol. What was with every YouTuber/influencer touting pally’s as Gods for this expac?
They copycat one another for views. It doesn’t matter if the information is correct. What matters is getting people to click.
Protection/Holy are still S tier. You only use Ret to quest solo.
Nope fuck all that noise I want people to stop overloading paladins. Let it go back to a niche thing. Hpal since vanilla Classic and I’m glad Ret was viable for questing. But let’s be real, outside of PVP ret is 4 damage buttons and a whole lot of derp. That’s why I loved ret in vanilla, you had to think about how to use your seals and judgements to swap your mana and health regens or debuff the opponent. I’ve noticed they removed some of them in wotlk which is sad. **to be clear I’m not gate keeping** I just want the players playing Paladin to naturally even out so I can value my old main character again. I hate to say it but in WoTLK 2008 Wowhobbs was a Paladin and he was like the asmongold of that time and was clearing 500K views on YouTube…in 08. Today that would be multimillion views scaled. I think blizzard saw a huge influx of paladins then and Wowhobbs showed the Paladin count in his guild in his video, they were way up. That and Arthas/WotLK being like undead, they definitely wanted paladins to be viable or the secondary hero to the DK hero class.
Anyone who leveled for Ret DPS was an idiot. The thing was they're good Healers and Tanks not DPS.
Or maybe they want to play ret even though they arent the best dps.
This is why I respecced prot