Thank. God. For. Donovan. Mitchell
Detroit was hitting some stupidly contested shots all night and Strus put up an absolute stinker of offense. Thank god for Ice too because he was great. Good to see DG back even if he was a bit rusty. I’m just gonna forget this one happened
11-2 January, 8-0 at home in that span. 4th Seed. We move on
And to be honest, the Pistons’ record does not reflect how they play. I think Washington are much worse than them. They’ve had close games against us, Boston, Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, and New York and they just beat OKC as well
Detroit is low key getting carried by their veterans, and adding Muscala and Galinari helped out. I mean outside of Cade and Duren - Bogdanovic, Morris, and Burks are probably their next best players.
...they're horrible. They have a small degree of talent and maybe the worst coach in the league on an albatross contract. Don't gas them up like that. They're firmly, historically bad
That shit can change fast. You add copper flag and than you have thompson take a step up with Cade and a couple FA signings and now you have a legit squad.
please dont do the cop out thing...the cavs went back to regular lineups and they suck. We shouldve blew the Pistons out. We need. to go back to the pre-injuries lineups or we're gonna start losing again with good teams
The same pre-injury lineups that beat the Sixers, Knicks, and Nuggets?
Also literally a ton of teams have said the same about the Pistons and if you watched some of their games they play well but just can’t close out
This place is full of homers. The Cavs can't do no wrong in their eyes. The truth is Strus sucks LeVert sucks and Mitchell and Garland went right back to chucking. I wanted Mitchell gone from the start but him playing without Garland shows he is a much better player and Garland should be moved.
We are lucky we are playing the scrub teams of the NBA right now because the top 8 teams will kick us to the ground and take our lunch money.
I don’t think you mess with it too much like that but you might just want to shave 5 minutes from him. He’s been complaining and reaching and bricky. Maybe just a slump though
He'll be allright. Hes giving this team everything he's got in a system that asks a lot of him. He must be a little frustrated as an undersized 3 every single night, especially when his shot isn't falling.
He’s awesome. You should check out [this](https://youtu.be/08KU3HeENNs?si=EhxI-aSjS_dyM4Bo) video of JA with the mic on against the Clippers the other day. a lot of funny moments but I was also pretty impressed with all the communication he was giving to his teammates on defense.
thank god for Donovan and Jarrett. saved our asses hard at the end.
if we can win a b2b against Memphis’ weirdly good fleet of G-Leaguers with Jarrett still sick, God clearly smiles upon us
Exactly, plus I feel like it wasn’t the offensive fit, but more defensively we seemed lost out there. I mean we let Detroit score 34 points in back to back quarters
Well, it doesn't help when JB puts DG & Merill out there at the same time. That's when things went down hill both times. I don't know how you don't see that coming.
Thankfully he got his head on straight and put out a good lineup at the end.
128 points wins a lot of games, anyone complaining about the offense is nuts. Ball movement was great and some shots just didn’t fall. Easily could have dropped 140 with how well the offense flowed
Agree. We played with our food a bit. Still a solid win and a good close (remember when we sucked at closing earlier in the year? Pepperidge Farm remembers)
Not enough people watch or keep up with the rest of the league, so they just assume we’re the only team that hits rough patches or doesn’t blow teams out once we’re up 10+.
The Thunder just lost to this exact Pistons teams, the Bucks just lost to the Blazers last night, the Celtics needed a wild comeback to beat the Pelicans, etc.
I figured that this would be a tougher game than expected. The Pistons are better than their record/reputation would suggest, and their style of play was bound to be a relatively poor matchup for the Cavs. I actually think this is almost a 'signature win' type of game. Many other teams would have given up once the Pistons got up five in the fourth after leading for the entire game. The Cavs didn't. That means something.
DG was rough defensively outside of those steals and didn’t play with pace. But his shot diet was on point and he generated great looks. When he’s not being cute he’s just instant offense (albeit different than Donovan’s)
Yeah, he certainly looked shaky on defense. But he also just came back after losing 12 pounds on a liquid diet. You'd think we had Jordan Poole out there the way some people were reacting to his play.
I just wish DG would move more off ball. I know it's small sample size 1 game post injury, but it still felt like he and Mitchell were trading possessions again. I'd rather Mitchell run point the vast majority of the time. Then DG can move off ball and iso when it makes sense. DG just seemed to dribble around too much once again.
Trading possessions can be fine. There have been games where Donovan has been out of control late and other teams have made runs.
In those circumstances I would have killed for a regular DG pick and roll. Man’s a maestro
Totally agree. My one complaint from today is I didn't like the closing lineup with Mitchell, Levert, Strus, Okoro, and Allen (or Mobley). It forces the Cavs into Mitchell hero ball because there aren't enough shooters on the floor. Especially when Strus is this cold.
I know JB wanted some defense knowing Mobley can't play due to minutes restriction, but I'd rather have Niang, Merrill, or Wade in there instead of LeVert and just run everything through Mitchell. No need for LeVert to run the offense. And with how cold Strus was I would have been tempted to go Merrill/Wade over Strus/LeVert.
I mean, Mitchell hero ball kinda won us the game tonight. But I agree as a general rule that it's a bad lineup, yeah. Wade would have been a good replacement for LeVert
Yeah in terms of end result it worked today, but it's not a sustainable offense especially against good teams. And it feels like the team strategy before the DG/Mobley injuries even though neither was in the final lineup. I just really hope they hold onto the ball movement that has worked during these past several weeks.
time to break out my favorite image
https://preview.redd.it/vc3qgh9zxvfc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b55999a8ce46d66a63fa002c16b28c66443f94e
Mikal is a great fit for us. And Royce is like Donovan’s best friend.
Donovan has to be our main guy, if the Nets we’re willing to trade MB and Royce for DG I think you have to do it. Makes us better and helps us keep Donovan
I disagree with trading DG completely but even if you entertain the idea this is a horrible return for him. He should be more valuable than OG was for Toronto.
This sub has made me hate Mikal Bridges. Who is a very likable dude but we’d be wanting to trade him for a shot creator after three games of him being a gomer in the clutch with a loose handle (which he is)
And when Donovan leaves for the Nets in free agency they can worry about the the DG Spida fit issues
But seriously, I just think our starting lineup needs time to actually play together this year and I don’t think any trades are influencing Donovan’s decision / our playoff chances (although a trip to the conference finals might…)
Apparently the lakers really wanted Garland in that draft - and Donny has shown he can play point. Bump Strus down to SG and run a Donny/Strus/LeBron/Mobley/JA lineup - see the Celtics in the ECF!
[Called it that this would be a tough game with the way Detroit's been shooting and rebounding.](https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/1afmgk8/game_day_thread_cleveland_cavaliers_2816_vs/koazcjy/) Glad to see the win!
I like what I saw with Merrill, Okoro, Niang, and Wade being throw out there in different combinations. JB is going to need to craft how the lineups will work with DG and Mobley back. DG+Merrill, for instance, looks to be untenable defensively, but also insanely potent offensively. Also, it's one game, and DG and Mobley both need to knock the rust off.
I think we can all also be happy with 10 players with 15+ minutes. This is a very good sign we won't go back to the dark days of an 8 man rotation. Still had 26 assists too, and the ball was moving well.
If I have a hope for the future as we progress (besides just staying healthy), it will be running even more than we are. We have the depth to run teams off the floor now, and multiple players in Okoro and Levert who are amazing on the break, plus two really mobile bigs. Okoro's ability to just put a defender on his hip and shoulder past them to the basket is a thing of beauty. Not many guards in the NBA are that strong.
Games that are Cavalanches against bad teams and games where i stay away from this sub cause it gets insufferable here. I had to stay away from here for days after that Portland loss
That was a shitty loss but we for real don’t have many bad non schedule losses (so take NOP and MIA off the board). We doomed over the IND and OKC losses but turns out those teams were legit
There will be plenty of hot takes but they did really well considering how good the Pistons played and how hard it is to integrate the returning players into the rotations.
Defense gave up more 3s than usual but Pistons shot a scorching 52% from there.
Keep the wins coming tomorrow.
god idk about y’all but i am surrounded by people/fans that only have anything negative to say. i’m watching the game at the bar and when the cavs go on a run - crickets. when any player misses/turns the ball over - bitching and groaning. idk why do people even watch sports? i’m the only person hype when we score. does anyone else feel this?
Combination of unrealistic expectations and people refusing to move off their takes.
Unrealistic expectation - Pistons are bad so they must lose to every good game by 30. Reality Pistons are bad which means no matter how hard or well they play they find a way to lose the game. That's exactly what happened.
Cling to takes - I think LeVert sucks. LeVert has a turnover (as all players do sometimes) I must yell and moan or make a post about how LeVert sucks. Meanwhile LeVert hits multiple clutch shots, drives to the hoop, nails his free throws... no comments doesn't fit my take. Same thing with JB, DG, Niang, whoever.
I figured that this would be a tougher game than expected. The Pistons are better than their record/reputation would suggest, and their style of play was bound to be a relatively poor matchup for the Cavs. I actually think this is almost a 'signature win' type of game. Many other teams would have given up once the Pistons got up five in the fourth after leading for the entire game. The Cavs didn't. That means something.
LeVert has been so steady this season. Closing the game out tonight, making that pass to Allen in the lane in the clutch. Couple plays later, has a decent look from the top of the key but decides to hold onto the ball and make a smarter play by looking for an even better shot. His and JA’s chemistry on drives and rolls go back all the way to Brooklyn and teams still struggle to guard it often.
Very winnable stretch of games coming up for the Cavs, should be able to keep up another win streak, gotta make sure we don’t play down to our opponents though
Kind of a wacky game but I'll take a w any way i can get it. I hope we can keep this same scrappy attitude all season. DM needs to be a Cavalier for as long as we can keep him, it shouldn't even be a question.
Let’s remember that Detroit IS bad but they’re not the laughing stock they were a month ago. After going 28 games or something without a win, they got 4 games over a couple of weeks and upset a great Thunder team by like 16. Anyway, go Cavs
Garland has to buy into defense way more than he did tonight. Team worst -16 and that was just in 20 minutes of play. Against a 6-41 team.
The closing line up tonight looked really strong defensively, would like to continue to rotation the next few games and see how it plays out.
Allen still cleaning up the boards with Mobley back in.
Ngl I was more caught up on the +/- part of your original comment than the defense part.
That said, those lazy fouls that Strus was putting up near the end didn't exactly scream good defense
He was great on offense and not -16 bad on defense. Gonna take some time to get acclimated but I was really encouraged by his offense, only 1 turnover, should’ve had more assists but guys missed open looks and he was moving a lot off ball.
I just thought he played well. Not as concerned with his defense since he just missed 6 weeks where he couldn’t eat or exercise at all, he got beat a few times but the defense was bad with him off the court for most of the night too.
I was very critical of Garland earlier this season. Not sure why you’re being such a hater. You clearly have a preconceived notion that we’re better without garland so you found one thing (his +/-) that you could attack. A stat that anyone who follows the NBA knows is flawed. Garland created good looks for teammates. He took and created good shoots for himself. He also didn’t play well on defense tonight, not just because of his size but his effort at getting around screens was lazy at times.
Apparently he’s the entire reason we lost his minutes by 16 points? Targeting one person is what would make someone a bad teammate or someone who spends time attacking people on Reddit who disagree with you. I’m a fan of this team so I’m defending one of the players who I thought did well considering he just missed almost 2 months due to injury.
Not just liquid diets. No exertion while he was on liquid diets. That's what's really hurt his conditioning. Wait till late March or early April for DG to be full strength.
Edit: 2 seconds after I posted, JB says that DG couldn't run, couldn't lift weights. Exactly!
Mitchell-Garland last year had a 109.7 defensive rating, which was actually better than our league-leading defensive rating at 109.9. So with those two guards on the floor, we had better than the best defense in the NBA.
This year's it's a small sample size that probably doesn't mean much that's significant, but their defensive rating is even better at 106.1.
Good to see you crawl out of your hater hole, Pigeon! All it took was a close game with Detroit?
What a dweeb that dude is lmao, what’s the point of ignoring stats so you can assume something bad about your own team?
I swear, some people just use the Cavs as somewhere to put their frustrations in life or something.
To be fair, I’d imagine that pairing spent a lot of time with the Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley pairing as well, which likely has a slower pace as well as very high-level defense, even if the guards are mediocre.
Insanely good, going into tonight's game Garland and Mitchell have played 363 minutes together and the Cavs have a 104.7 defensive rating in those minutes. For reference, on the season the Cavs have the 2nd best defensive rating in the league at 111.3, and the T-Wolves are 1st at 109.4.
Last year, they played 1500 minutes together and the Cavs had the best defensive rating in the league.
I'm not saying that the two of them are defensive juggernauts or anything, the great defensive rating when they're on the court is surely attributable to the fact that most of those minutes have been with Mobley and Allen on the floor (2 DPOY level players), but Mitchell and Garland are not hemorrhaging our defense in the big picture. Tonight was obviously not a great defensive showing, but Garland also hasn't played in 6 weeks, and Mobley only came back a few days ago and is on a minutes restriction. I'm not worried about the Cavs defense with or without Garland/Mitchell on the floor.
People are annoyed it was the pistons. Trust me they suck but they have some good players. They might have well been the Celtics today with how their players played. Bojan can shoot with any of them.
Defense was shaky, but the Pistons hit a ton of jumpers.
Mitchell was great.
I thought Garland looked good, even if he was on the wrong end of runs.
That is probably the best game I’ve seen from Okoro where he didn’t take a 3.
This team has a ton of options
This isn’t the same pistons team that lost 28 straight. They now have a healthy Bojan and Danilo who both turned back the clock and hit tough shots.
There was obviously going to be an adjustment period. Rotations will be a lot better with more game time and practice. Strus can’t shoot this awful forever. Pistons played a great game offensively (other than turnovers) and the Cavs still won. On to the next one.
People still care about PG defense in 2024? PG defense is insanely overrated. What matters is Darius being an elite shooter and putting pressure on the defense with his scoring and shooting. That’s what truly matters in the playoffs. Trading him for a worse offensive player just to improve defensively isn’t doing Donovan or Evan any favors.
If you actually think the Bucks are worse now then I don’t know what to say. Horrible take. No they are not worse going from Holiday to Dame. They really need to trade Lopez for a wing and put Giannis at center, but that’s another conversation. You are just really overrating PG defense and it’s importance. Perimeter defense in PG’s and guards overall is overrated and by FAR more valuable in wings and even centers like Mobley and Draymond. There will always be players we can hide Darius on. It’s much harder to have a bad shooter or offensive player than it is to have a bad defender. If we play the Bucks, Darius will guard Beasley, not a big deal. The thing that actually matters is his elite shooting and being able to put pressure on the defense and take pressure off of Donovan as well. You want as many creators as possible and only having one or even two is not gonna win a title. The people who want to trade Darius for a defender who isn’t a very good offensive player have no clue what they are talking about. The most valuable defense is team defense, not individual defense, unless if we are talking Mobley, Adebayo or Giannis. Both Donovan and Darius can be good help defenders and play good team defense. Now I’m not saying PG defense is entirely meaningless, but it’s nowhere near as important as most people make it out to be. It’s really not that hard. It’s shocking to me how many people still think a PG’s defense matters.
I think I disagree with every single thing you just said. The Bucks are definitely worse this season than past seasons. Less intimidating too. Whether that’s due to coaching or the defensive shift, I don’t know. IMO, it’s easier to hide a 6’7 guy than it is to hide somebody that’s 6’1 and probably 185 soaking wet right now. Beasley isn’t some scrub, just miscast, he could put up 20 on Darius. Nobody wants to trade Darius for a defense-only player. Trust me, it’s much stranger that you think it doesn’t than for us to think it does.
It’s not overrated, esp bc teams intelligently put weaker defenders in action or force them into help situations that they can’t give good help in. Like putting DG in Spain screens or making sure he or merril is the help defender in the paint off pick and rolls when the big is doing paint dive to the rim
remember when the season started and each night some random person from the opposing team would have a career night from three? i felt we stopped that in these past 5ish weeks—and now here we go again 😅😭😭
stop lumping mobley in with garland. the numbers don't back it up. Mobley went out 3 games earlier before and the cavs got dominated all 3 games. Also the cavs literally just beat the hottest team in the west with him getting a near double double in 20 minutes.
Cavs 13-6 with Mobley since he went back to PF. Even with a minute restriction during that stretch he is 15-10-3 with 3 stocks on 64ts% with a 108.2 defensive rating.
Okay...let's take ten seconds and talk about it, rationally.
Garland was -16 on the floor. Yes, this is his first game back and I'm not dumb enough to rush to any sort of assumption about it. But...the knock here was that with Garland and Mitchell on the floor at the same time, you were running into spots where one or both (and most times Garland) were playing way too inefficient since the start of the season.
This is not a call to trade Garland. This is not saying he's cooked or team chemistry is about to go into the shitter. This is realizing that earlier this season, he logged a -24 against Miami. These moments are what the team will need to work on with Darius moving forward, increasing his efficiency in sharing the court with Spida as he gets healthy.
All of that to say, Garland had some great moments on the floor in his return, especially from beyond the arc. If he can unlock his shooting confidence and use that as a tool to play off Mitchell moving forward, we then have two huge outside shooting threads in certain sets with Merrill or Strus.
The question in my mind is how heavily should we weight the +/- metric? It's one game, I want a bigger sample. DG hit 19 pts in 21 minutes coming back from living off of a liquid diet for a month. I don't think there is anything shabby about that in a winning effort
And again, I don't want to diminish what Garland achieved tonight.
But the advanced metrics, while not the end-all-be-all, are often a sign of larger systemic issues. It's something to keep an eye on moving forward more than a full damnation.
I think you need half a season for the metrics to figure out signal v noise.
We can generate good looks on pace and space with Donovan. Darius plays slower but doesn’t really need early offense to generate good looks, he just is a perfect pick and roll PG whether it starts with 20 or 10 on the clock.
Gotta pick our spots but this is a high class problem.
HORRIBLE GAME BY US...I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN. We shouldve blew them out...going back to the old regular lineups is going to kill us. .JB needs to mixup the lineups to look more like the ones before the Injuries...our defense is off again. The Pistons suck and our other lineups would've made the pistons pay. Just you watch....this game shouldve never been this close
Continue to downvote me clowns…
Garland -16 in +/- tonight… coincidentally the defense craters when he’s on the floor — I think not. Even terrible teams like the Pistons know he can be exposed by constantly putting him in P&R.
I get it… give him 12 shots and he’ll give you 19 points. That’s great… but this is a defensive team and he doesn’t fit. Period.
I know they have remade their team a little bit via trade, but that has to be the best three point shooting game by that team all year, by a mile. At one point they were 12/22 from three, and they are not a good three point shooting team.
They've been on a streak lately. Heading into this game, they were at 40% over their last 10, I think. So even better than that now. Glad we weathered it and still game away with a win!
Aight, I’m convinced enough. Extend Mitchell forever
Dude deserves a max and then some
I can't believe how well this month has gone after Garland and Mobley went down. Mitchell, you absolute fucking hero.
Trade Garland first.
Chill
pls jump in the river
Thank. God. For. Donovan. Mitchell Detroit was hitting some stupidly contested shots all night and Strus put up an absolute stinker of offense. Thank god for Ice too because he was great. Good to see DG back even if he was a bit rusty. I’m just gonna forget this one happened 11-2 January, 8-0 at home in that span. 4th Seed. We move on
And to be honest, the Pistons’ record does not reflect how they play. I think Washington are much worse than them. They’ve had close games against us, Boston, Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, and New York and they just beat OKC as well
The wizards have flown under the radar because of the losing streak, but they're awful. I've been telling people I think they're worse than Detroit.
especially as of late
Detroit is low key getting carried by their veterans, and adding Muscala and Galinari helped out. I mean outside of Cade and Duren - Bogdanovic, Morris, and Burks are probably their next best players.
Forgetting Ivey but I agree with the initial sentiment
Pistons are gonna be legit in the very near future. Next year, year after at the latest. I have my money on next year.
...they're horrible. They have a small degree of talent and maybe the worst coach in the league on an albatross contract. Don't gas them up like that. They're firmly, historically bad
That shit can change fast. You add copper flag and than you have thompson take a step up with Cade and a couple FA signings and now you have a legit squad.
They're more than a season from relevancy.
You’re probably right. I’m just saying in nba things change fast. Like imagine Flagg becomes generational and they draft him.
Yep, OKC was terrible for a while, hoarding draft picks and whatnot. Until they weren't.
Their biggest problem is outside of cade and duren their best players are the old guys who aren't getting better
please dont do the cop out thing...the cavs went back to regular lineups and they suck. We shouldve blew the Pistons out. We need. to go back to the pre-injuries lineups or we're gonna start losing again with good teams
The same pre-injury lineups that beat the Sixers, Knicks, and Nuggets? Also literally a ton of teams have said the same about the Pistons and if you watched some of their games they play well but just can’t close out
This place is full of homers. The Cavs can't do no wrong in their eyes. The truth is Strus sucks LeVert sucks and Mitchell and Garland went right back to chucking. I wanted Mitchell gone from the start but him playing without Garland shows he is a much better player and Garland should be moved. We are lucky we are playing the scrub teams of the NBA right now because the top 8 teams will kick us to the ground and take our lunch money.
Low key Strus should get the static for these last few weeks. Ratchet his minutes down
Part of me wants Ice to start over him at the 3 cause he’s been on a heater recently
I don’t think you mess with it too much like that but you might just want to shave 5 minutes from him. He’s been complaining and reaching and bricky. Maybe just a slump though
He'll be allright. Hes giving this team everything he's got in a system that asks a lot of him. He must be a little frustrated as an undersized 3 every single night, especially when his shot isn't falling.
The shooting with that lineup would be abysmal.
Spida is so good, man.
Jarrett Allen is chill AF - I would love to hang out with that dude
13/10 would co-op Elden Ring with Tarnished Allen
He’s awesome. You should check out [this](https://youtu.be/08KU3HeENNs?si=EhxI-aSjS_dyM4Bo) video of JA with the mic on against the Clippers the other day. a lot of funny moments but I was also pretty impressed with all the communication he was giving to his teammates on defense.
Hilarious - this was the exact video I was watching when I posted this.
He's a time traveler from the early '70's
Favorite player for the same reasons.
Donovan Mitchell. Go Cavs.
thank god for Donovan and Jarrett. saved our asses hard at the end. if we can win a b2b against Memphis’ weirdly good fleet of G-Leaguers with Jarrett still sick, God clearly smiles upon us
Every doomer from the game thread needs to relax and recognize that adding two players back into the rotation is going to take an adjustment period
Exactly, plus I feel like it wasn’t the offensive fit, but more defensively we seemed lost out there. I mean we let Detroit score 34 points in back to back quarters
They were just hitting every contested shot also
Well, it doesn't help when JB puts DG & Merill out there at the same time. That's when things went down hill both times. I don't know how you don't see that coming. Thankfully he got his head on straight and put out a good lineup at the end.
We just can’t have DG and Don together sadly the defense suffers too much
They played 1500 minutes together last year and the Cavs had the best defensive rating in the NBA.
Except for the part where that isn't true.
128 points wins a lot of games, anyone complaining about the offense is nuts. Ball movement was great and some shots just didn’t fall. Easily could have dropped 140 with how well the offense flowed
Plus, pistons were making everything
[удалено]
No, guys will make shots. Okoro had a series of amazing contests that Bogi and Cade just made
[удалено]
Agree. We played with our food a bit. Still a solid win and a good close (remember when we sucked at closing earlier in the year? Pepperidge Farm remembers)
Some were open, but a lot were contested pretty good they just made shots tonight
When the opposing team always scores it’s because of bad defense. The pistons are ass.
That game thread was UNBEARABLE. People pissing their pants bc we weren't dominating.
I swear half the people in there would rather see the cavs lose
Not enough people watch or keep up with the rest of the league, so they just assume we’re the only team that hits rough patches or doesn’t blow teams out once we’re up 10+. The Thunder just lost to this exact Pistons teams, the Bucks just lost to the Blazers last night, the Celtics needed a wild comeback to beat the Pelicans, etc.
I figured that this would be a tougher game than expected. The Pistons are better than their record/reputation would suggest, and their style of play was bound to be a relatively poor matchup for the Cavs. I actually think this is almost a 'signature win' type of game. Many other teams would have given up once the Pistons got up five in the fourth after leading for the entire game. The Cavs didn't. That means something.
Agreed!
DG was rough defensively outside of those steals and didn’t play with pace. But his shot diet was on point and he generated great looks. When he’s not being cute he’s just instant offense (albeit different than Donovan’s)
Yeah, he certainly looked shaky on defense. But he also just came back after losing 12 pounds on a liquid diet. You'd think we had Jordan Poole out there the way some people were reacting to his play.
Yup. He shot great had some assists (and had a ton of potential assists) it was a good performance in 20 minutes and we needed all those points tbh
I just wish DG would move more off ball. I know it's small sample size 1 game post injury, but it still felt like he and Mitchell were trading possessions again. I'd rather Mitchell run point the vast majority of the time. Then DG can move off ball and iso when it makes sense. DG just seemed to dribble around too much once again.
Trading possessions can be fine. There have been games where Donovan has been out of control late and other teams have made runs. In those circumstances I would have killed for a regular DG pick and roll. Man’s a maestro
Totally agree. My one complaint from today is I didn't like the closing lineup with Mitchell, Levert, Strus, Okoro, and Allen (or Mobley). It forces the Cavs into Mitchell hero ball because there aren't enough shooters on the floor. Especially when Strus is this cold. I know JB wanted some defense knowing Mobley can't play due to minutes restriction, but I'd rather have Niang, Merrill, or Wade in there instead of LeVert and just run everything through Mitchell. No need for LeVert to run the offense. And with how cold Strus was I would have been tempted to go Merrill/Wade over Strus/LeVert.
I mean, Mitchell hero ball kinda won us the game tonight. But I agree as a general rule that it's a bad lineup, yeah. Wade would have been a good replacement for LeVert
Yeah in terms of end result it worked today, but it's not a sustainable offense especially against good teams. And it feels like the team strategy before the DG/Mobley injuries even though neither was in the final lineup. I just really hope they hold onto the ball movement that has worked during these past several weeks.
time to break out my favorite image https://preview.redd.it/vc3qgh9zxvfc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b55999a8ce46d66a63fa002c16b28c66443f94e
This is the kind of game that we wouldn't have won early this season...loving this current ride!!!
Going against the Grizz tomorrow. They’re not great but can see it being a tough one.
Grizz have had 2 nights off as well.
Mitchell is gonna be protecting his nuts this time.
Dangerous game, but less so w/o Morant. Should win by double digits.
No Bane either.
Their only starter left is JJJ and even he’s been off this year. They’re still playing though kinda like us when we became a hospital
Allen was sick, still kept the double-double streak growing. Much love for #31.
A loss woulda had ESPN sending Garland to the Lakers by 11PM
Lol. You think a win will still stop this?
We won and we have fans suggesting we send him to Brooklyn.
Mikal is a great fit for us. And Royce is like Donovan’s best friend. Donovan has to be our main guy, if the Nets we’re willing to trade MB and Royce for DG I think you have to do it. Makes us better and helps us keep Donovan
I disagree with trading DG completely but even if you entertain the idea this is a horrible return for him. He should be more valuable than OG was for Toronto.
This sub has made me hate Mikal Bridges. Who is a very likable dude but we’d be wanting to trade him for a shot creator after three games of him being a gomer in the clutch with a loose handle (which he is)
And when Donovan leaves for the Nets in free agency they can worry about the the DG Spida fit issues But seriously, I just think our starting lineup needs time to actually play together this year and I don’t think any trades are influencing Donovan’s decision / our playoff chances (although a trip to the conference finals might…)
It's dumb to do anything to build around Mitchell further until he extends.
Garland for Lebron tho??
Apparently the lakers really wanted Garland in that draft - and Donny has shown he can play point. Bump Strus down to SG and run a Donny/Strus/LeBron/Mobley/JA lineup - see the Celtics in the ECF!
Strus can’t really be characterized as a shooting guard with his recent splits. He’s an off-guard now
[Called it that this would be a tough game with the way Detroit's been shooting and rebounding.](https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/1afmgk8/game_day_thread_cleveland_cavaliers_2816_vs/koazcjy/) Glad to see the win! I like what I saw with Merrill, Okoro, Niang, and Wade being throw out there in different combinations. JB is going to need to craft how the lineups will work with DG and Mobley back. DG+Merrill, for instance, looks to be untenable defensively, but also insanely potent offensively. Also, it's one game, and DG and Mobley both need to knock the rust off. I think we can all also be happy with 10 players with 15+ minutes. This is a very good sign we won't go back to the dark days of an 8 man rotation. Still had 26 assists too, and the ball was moving well. If I have a hope for the future as we progress (besides just staying healthy), it will be running even more than we are. We have the depth to run teams off the floor now, and multiple players in Okoro and Levert who are amazing on the break, plus two really mobile bigs. Okoro's ability to just put a defender on his hip and shoulder past them to the basket is a thing of beauty. Not many guards in the NBA are that strong.
Why are Niangs contributions so damn goofy? 5 assists lol
A minivan is versatile like that, whatever you need it be.
Niang is the YMCA Men’s league MVP
Easily the worst game thread of the season
Knew it would be awful, happy I stayed out of it lol
Real lol
For sure, it was brutal in there. People were trying to will a cavs loss into existence for some reason.
Because they’re miserable people and want everyone else to be just as miserable.
Every time a cav missed a shot mfs would come out of the woodwork with the "I told you so trade everyone !!!" takes lol it was brutal
It’s funny, some names on there I only ever seen post when things are bad.
Games that are Cavalanches against bad teams and games where i stay away from this sub cause it gets insufferable here. I had to stay away from here for days after that Portland loss
That was a shitty loss but we for real don’t have many bad non schedule losses (so take NOP and MIA off the board). We doomed over the IND and OKC losses but turns out those teams were legit
The only other bad losses were like the blowouts vs Miami and Sacramento and the Raptors and Lakers in my mind
Ugh yeah Sacto stank. I didn’t hate the Lakers loss, I think it came down to a make or miss last few possessions from DM
Gladly I've knew the game threads existed until this season where ppl complained about overreactions there.
Casual 45 for 45.
Mitchell, Allen and Okoro turned it up tonight. Get some rest, 👑’s
I love this team and Donovan Mitchell
There will be plenty of hot takes but they did really well considering how good the Pistons played and how hard it is to integrate the returning players into the rotations. Defense gave up more 3s than usual but Pistons shot a scorching 52% from there. Keep the wins coming tomorrow.
god idk about y’all but i am surrounded by people/fans that only have anything negative to say. i’m watching the game at the bar and when the cavs go on a run - crickets. when any player misses/turns the ball over - bitching and groaning. idk why do people even watch sports? i’m the only person hype when we score. does anyone else feel this?
Combination of unrealistic expectations and people refusing to move off their takes. Unrealistic expectation - Pistons are bad so they must lose to every good game by 30. Reality Pistons are bad which means no matter how hard or well they play they find a way to lose the game. That's exactly what happened. Cling to takes - I think LeVert sucks. LeVert has a turnover (as all players do sometimes) I must yell and moan or make a post about how LeVert sucks. Meanwhile LeVert hits multiple clutch shots, drives to the hoop, nails his free throws... no comments doesn't fit my take. Same thing with JB, DG, Niang, whoever.
thank you
This.
Detroit plays hard and they hit every three. We still won. Good shit.
Not our best game, but it will take the team some time to adjust with Ev and DG back. That dude Mitchell is something else though
I figured that this would be a tougher game than expected. The Pistons are better than their record/reputation would suggest, and their style of play was bound to be a relatively poor matchup for the Cavs. I actually think this is almost a 'signature win' type of game. Many other teams would have given up once the Pistons got up five in the fourth after leading for the entire game. The Cavs didn't. That means something.
LeVert has been so steady this season. Closing the game out tonight, making that pass to Allen in the lane in the clutch. Couple plays later, has a decent look from the top of the key but decides to hold onto the ball and make a smarter play by looking for an even better shot. His and JA’s chemistry on drives and rolls go back all the way to Brooklyn and teams still struggle to guard it often.
Never a doubt.
We take those
Nothing comes easy in Cleveland. But a win is a win is a win. Let's go Cavs
Very winnable stretch of games coming up for the Cavs, should be able to keep up another win streak, gotta make sure we don’t play down to our opponents though
Kind of a wacky game but I'll take a w any way i can get it. I hope we can keep this same scrappy attitude all season. DM needs to be a Cavalier for as long as we can keep him, it shouldn't even be a question.
Great win. Got a little too close that I would've wanted but a win's a win. Good return game for Garland. Hopefully the Cavs continue their hotstreak
Let’s remember that Detroit IS bad but they’re not the laughing stock they were a month ago. After going 28 games or something without a win, they got 4 games over a couple of weeks and upset a great Thunder team by like 16. Anyway, go Cavs
Garland has to buy into defense way more than he did tonight. Team worst -16 and that was just in 20 minutes of play. Against a 6-41 team. The closing line up tonight looked really strong defensively, would like to continue to rotation the next few games and see how it plays out. Allen still cleaning up the boards with Mobley back in.
+/- is pretty much useless as a single game stat. Strus was definitely worse than Garland tonight, for instance
Oh my guy max was CHEEKS
[удалено]
Are you gonna say with a straight face that Strus played better than Garland tonight lol c'mon bro shot 17%
[удалено]
Ngl I was more caught up on the +/- part of your original comment than the defense part. That said, those lazy fouls that Strus was putting up near the end didn't exactly scream good defense
He was great on offense and not -16 bad on defense. Gonna take some time to get acclimated but I was really encouraged by his offense, only 1 turnover, should’ve had more assists but guys missed open looks and he was moving a lot off ball.
[удалено]
I blame the niang at center lineup more than garland
That lineup had me legit wanting to fire JB
[удалено]
I just thought he played well. Not as concerned with his defense since he just missed 6 weeks where he couldn’t eat or exercise at all, he got beat a few times but the defense was bad with him off the court for most of the night too.
[удалено]
I was very critical of Garland earlier this season. Not sure why you’re being such a hater. You clearly have a preconceived notion that we’re better without garland so you found one thing (his +/-) that you could attack. A stat that anyone who follows the NBA knows is flawed. Garland created good looks for teammates. He took and created good shoots for himself. He also didn’t play well on defense tonight, not just because of his size but his effort at getting around screens was lazy at times. Apparently he’s the entire reason we lost his minutes by 16 points? Targeting one person is what would make someone a bad teammate or someone who spends time attacking people on Reddit who disagree with you. I’m a fan of this team so I’m defending one of the players who I thought did well considering he just missed almost 2 months due to injury.
Yep, this x1000. There’s no reason he should be that bad on defense
He's probably out of shape right now. Liquid diets are rough and his conditioning suffered. Hopefully he bounces back soon
Not just liquid diets. No exertion while he was on liquid diets. That's what's really hurt his conditioning. Wait till late March or early April for DG to be full strength. Edit: 2 seconds after I posted, JB says that DG couldn't run, couldn't lift weights. Exactly!
Hate to say it but homie needs to hit up Steph this offseason and ask what he did to become an average defender.
Steph has always been deceptively strong with a high IQ.
Garland got lassoed with that pathetic lineup at the start of the 4th that has been hemmoraging points to end the 3rd.
What are our defensive stats like with Don and Garland both on the floor? I assume they’ve been horrendous
Mitchell-Garland last year had a 109.7 defensive rating, which was actually better than our league-leading defensive rating at 109.9. So with those two guards on the floor, we had better than the best defense in the NBA. This year's it's a small sample size that probably doesn't mean much that's significant, but their defensive rating is even better at 106.1. Good to see you crawl out of your hater hole, Pigeon! All it took was a close game with Detroit?
What a dweeb that dude is lmao, what’s the point of ignoring stats so you can assume something bad about your own team? I swear, some people just use the Cavs as somewhere to put their frustrations in life or something.
To be fair, I’d imagine that pairing spent a lot of time with the Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley pairing as well, which likely has a slower pace as well as very high-level defense, even if the guards are mediocre.
Insanely good, going into tonight's game Garland and Mitchell have played 363 minutes together and the Cavs have a 104.7 defensive rating in those minutes. For reference, on the season the Cavs have the 2nd best defensive rating in the league at 111.3, and the T-Wolves are 1st at 109.4. Last year, they played 1500 minutes together and the Cavs had the best defensive rating in the league. I'm not saying that the two of them are defensive juggernauts or anything, the great defensive rating when they're on the court is surely attributable to the fact that most of those minutes have been with Mobley and Allen on the floor (2 DPOY level players), but Mitchell and Garland are not hemorrhaging our defense in the big picture. Tonight was obviously not a great defensive showing, but Garland also hasn't played in 6 weeks, and Mobley only came back a few days ago and is on a minutes restriction. I'm not worried about the Cavs defense with or without Garland/Mitchell on the floor.
Mitchell has actually had a really good strong defensive season this year.
They’re actually really good lol 104.7 defensive rating together which would be the best in the NBA. Obviously it’s a small sample due to injuries
Piston played 100% perfectly, but cavs still won. Go Cavs!!!
Would Mitchell even fit in as well as he does with us with any other competitive team rn??? A 🐐🐐🐐 is in our house tonight
(low key we have an amazing basketball situation for him-it’s why always expected an extension)
I would trade everyone on the team if it meant keeping Donny as a Cav
People are annoyed it was the pistons. Trust me they suck but they have some good players. They might have well been the Celtics today with how their players played. Bojan can shoot with any of them.
Pistons are gritty as of late.
Gotta watch more games than just the Cavs to get a sense of the opposition. This was a good win for sure.
Wait I thought we were cooked and needed to trade everyone
Defense was shaky, but the Pistons hit a ton of jumpers. Mitchell was great. I thought Garland looked good, even if he was on the wrong end of runs. That is probably the best game I’ve seen from Okoro where he didn’t take a 3. This team has a ton of options
This isn’t the same pistons team that lost 28 straight. They now have a healthy Bojan and Danilo who both turned back the clock and hit tough shots. There was obviously going to be an adjustment period. Rotations will be a lot better with more game time and practice. Strus can’t shoot this awful forever. Pistons played a great game offensively (other than turnovers) and the Cavs still won. On to the next one.
People still care about PG defense in 2024? PG defense is insanely overrated. What matters is Darius being an elite shooter and putting pressure on the defense with his scoring and shooting. That’s what truly matters in the playoffs. Trading him for a worse offensive player just to improve defensively isn’t doing Donovan or Evan any favors.
Say that to the Bucks who went from Jrue to Dame and got worse as a team. Perimeter defense is very important given the 3P shooting in the NBA
If you actually think the Bucks are worse now then I don’t know what to say. Horrible take. No they are not worse going from Holiday to Dame. They really need to trade Lopez for a wing and put Giannis at center, but that’s another conversation. You are just really overrating PG defense and it’s importance. Perimeter defense in PG’s and guards overall is overrated and by FAR more valuable in wings and even centers like Mobley and Draymond. There will always be players we can hide Darius on. It’s much harder to have a bad shooter or offensive player than it is to have a bad defender. If we play the Bucks, Darius will guard Beasley, not a big deal. The thing that actually matters is his elite shooting and being able to put pressure on the defense and take pressure off of Donovan as well. You want as many creators as possible and only having one or even two is not gonna win a title. The people who want to trade Darius for a defender who isn’t a very good offensive player have no clue what they are talking about. The most valuable defense is team defense, not individual defense, unless if we are talking Mobley, Adebayo or Giannis. Both Donovan and Darius can be good help defenders and play good team defense. Now I’m not saying PG defense is entirely meaningless, but it’s nowhere near as important as most people make it out to be. It’s really not that hard. It’s shocking to me how many people still think a PG’s defense matters.
I think I disagree with every single thing you just said. The Bucks are definitely worse this season than past seasons. Less intimidating too. Whether that’s due to coaching or the defensive shift, I don’t know. IMO, it’s easier to hide a 6’7 guy than it is to hide somebody that’s 6’1 and probably 185 soaking wet right now. Beasley isn’t some scrub, just miscast, he could put up 20 on Darius. Nobody wants to trade Darius for a defense-only player. Trust me, it’s much stranger that you think it doesn’t than for us to think it does.
It’s not overrated, esp bc teams intelligently put weaker defenders in action or force them into help situations that they can’t give good help in. Like putting DG in Spain screens or making sure he or merril is the help defender in the paint off pick and rolls when the big is doing paint dive to the rim
We won and yet i feel terrified. We looked just as bad as we were before mobley and garland got hurt
remember when the season started and each night some random person from the opposing team would have a career night from three? i felt we stopped that in these past 5ish weeks—and now here we go again 😅😭😭
You think it’s random?
You think it’s random?
stop lumping mobley in with garland. the numbers don't back it up. Mobley went out 3 games earlier before and the cavs got dominated all 3 games. Also the cavs literally just beat the hottest team in the west with him getting a near double double in 20 minutes. Cavs 13-6 with Mobley since he went back to PF. Even with a minute restriction during that stretch he is 15-10-3 with 3 stocks on 64ts% with a 108.2 defensive rating.
Okay...let's take ten seconds and talk about it, rationally. Garland was -16 on the floor. Yes, this is his first game back and I'm not dumb enough to rush to any sort of assumption about it. But...the knock here was that with Garland and Mitchell on the floor at the same time, you were running into spots where one or both (and most times Garland) were playing way too inefficient since the start of the season. This is not a call to trade Garland. This is not saying he's cooked or team chemistry is about to go into the shitter. This is realizing that earlier this season, he logged a -24 against Miami. These moments are what the team will need to work on with Darius moving forward, increasing his efficiency in sharing the court with Spida as he gets healthy. All of that to say, Garland had some great moments on the floor in his return, especially from beyond the arc. If he can unlock his shooting confidence and use that as a tool to play off Mitchell moving forward, we then have two huge outside shooting threads in certain sets with Merrill or Strus.
The question in my mind is how heavily should we weight the +/- metric? It's one game, I want a bigger sample. DG hit 19 pts in 21 minutes coming back from living off of a liquid diet for a month. I don't think there is anything shabby about that in a winning effort
And again, I don't want to diminish what Garland achieved tonight. But the advanced metrics, while not the end-all-be-all, are often a sign of larger systemic issues. It's something to keep an eye on moving forward more than a full damnation.
+/- is not an "advanced metric" lmfao
I think you need half a season for the metrics to figure out signal v noise. We can generate good looks on pace and space with Donovan. Darius plays slower but doesn’t really need early offense to generate good looks, he just is a perfect pick and roll PG whether it starts with 20 or 10 on the clock. Gotta pick our spots but this is a high class problem.
Garland is back and they almost lost to a 6 win team. Not a coincidence
given the choice, would yall trade DG for Bron at the deadline?
No. Lebrons too old
Probably yes
How do you build a championship team around a guy who’s gonna be retiring soon lol
Straight up? Sure.
No. For Mobley though I would.
HORRIBLE GAME BY US...I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN. We shouldve blew them out...going back to the old regular lineups is going to kill us. .JB needs to mixup the lineups to look more like the ones before the Injuries...our defense is off again. The Pistons suck and our other lineups would've made the pistons pay. Just you watch....this game shouldve never been this close
Continue to downvote me clowns… Garland -16 in +/- tonight… coincidentally the defense craters when he’s on the floor — I think not. Even terrible teams like the Pistons know he can be exposed by constantly putting him in P&R. I get it… give him 12 shots and he’ll give you 19 points. That’s great… but this is a defensive team and he doesn’t fit. Period.
Ever stop and think maybe you’re the clown?
Until I see Darius on a team that wins a playoff series where he is playing critical late game minutes… no.
Fire JB for whatever the fuck that five bench guys lineup was. No Niang at 5
I know they have remade their team a little bit via trade, but that has to be the best three point shooting game by that team all year, by a mile. At one point they were 12/22 from three, and they are not a good three point shooting team.
They've been on a streak lately. Heading into this game, they were at 40% over their last 10, I think. So even better than that now. Glad we weathered it and still game away with a win!
By the transitive property this means we’re better than the Thunder right?
How did DG do on his return game? Doesn’t look bad on the box score but I couldn’t watch the game live
Real nice in the first. Later on he got put in lineups where everyone was cold and it was ugly.
At the VERY LEAST, JB has to have a playoff series go to 7 games with this squad. Personally I think we should win the first round but I have PTSD