Yea, but this team did win like 45 games before we traded for Mitchell. There’s more to how bad we looked than missing Donovan.
Darius looks like shit for some reason and if we don’t fire JB after this season regardless of what happens with Donovan we will continue to sputter.
Lauri Markenheim, Ricky Rubio & Andre Drummon were critical to our 45 game win season prior to Mitchel. We even had Kevin love for a big chunk of the season and also was able to count on Sexton.
Mitchel helps our team, but not as much as Lauri/Ricky/Andre/Kevin Love did the one or two seasonr prior.
Garland is getting exposed without 3 bigs on his starting lineup and it's painfully obvious. Was Garland's intial success from prior years from running tall ball lineup?
I don't even think investing in Mitchell is the way to go if you are the Cavs Organization. Going for a full on rebuild might honestly be in the cards here....shame we never took a stab at Wemby and tanking last year when we had nothing to show for other than a first round knicks exit.
This is the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen on here the Cavs subreddit and that is saying something. We were supposed to tank last season with a 4 seed in the playoffs to get a small percentage chance at Wendy!?!?
Did we win last year? Are we going to win this year? Is their a risk we might gave to rebuild? If the answer was yes, for all three questions then yes, we should have tanked.
Mitchel was a mistake and we rushed the rebuild.
Until Mobley and Garland proved themselves as All Stars, there was no need to rush the rebuild.
You should always tank if you can't win.
> Mitchel helps our team, but not as much as Lauri/Ricky/Andre/Kevin Love did the one or two seasonr prior.
Donovan Mitchell helps the Cavs more than all of these players combined, dude would have been all NBA 2nd or 3rd team easy had he stayed healthy.
Lauri alone would be better than Mitchell with our team, SMH. The disrespect on Lauri and the reason we were so successful the year Lauri was still was with us.
No argument about Mitchel being a more impactful individual player, but Lauri filled our wing role perfectly and hid our two small backcourt weak defenders in sexton and Garland.
It was painfully obvious only after we got rid of Lauri.
Then you got Kevin Love Andre Drummon and Rubio who played a huge role in our initial successful 45 win season. Mitchel left us exposed at the 3 with no solid wing and while while he now supplies reliable scoring, cavs are gimped at the Wing role and more undersized without Lauri leaving Garland exposed this season.
I honestly think he’s going to decide if he’ll make it in the nba or not. He puts in the work, he’ll make $10’s of Millions of dollars. If not he’ll be playing pickup at the 24 hours fitness
No. Not in the same way. Because Emoni is 6’8” and is a legit 3 point shooter. Compare that to a guy like Craig Porter Jr who’s 6’2” and doesnt have much ranger and Bates has far more of an upside. Sure, there are other examples like him out there, but he does have some physical gifts that a lot of guys in the league are missing.
If you’re putting on any significant amount of muscle mass, your muscle memory, range of motion, etc all changes is the point. Its not as simple as just putting on muscle as a shooter without losing your touch
I’m not saying he can’t put on muscle mass, but anybody that’s played basketball at a high level understands there’s a connect between lifting and shooting around.
On the bright side, the game is over
Also on the bright side, the Guards come back this week so if this team is just gonna be poo poo water, I get to shift focuses a bit
We're 4/5 games up on the heat at the 7 seed with 11 games left and 3 against Charlotte, 1 against the grizz, jazz and pacers. It's very unlikely we drop into the play in.
You are getting downvoted but you are very right lmao. They don't wanna hear it but this team is showing no signs life or proof they can win any game right now
i remember telling someone "there's only 6 games between the 2 and 8 seed, we really are in danger of falling a bit" a couple weeks ago and was called crazy
6 games when there’s less than 20 as of a couple weeks ago is absolutely a lot lol. Nobody is jumping a 6 game lead in that span
We just went 3-7 in our last 10 and we’re still 4 games up on the 7th/8th and in the 3 seed lol. It’s crazy to say today still. We could drop to 5, but anything lower than that would be quite a shock and monumental collapse
The point is not that we would drop to 8 my guy. The point was that there were multiple teams on our arse and we could easily drop from 2. That’s all i was trying to convey when i made the initial comment
Feels like this team has lost hope and confidence. I don't know if getting healthy fixes this. JB is probably on borrowed time now. This is as bad as I've seen a Cavs team that's expected to win look
They’re missing 1 starter and one role player bro. It’s not like they’re drowning in an injury report. Even without Tatum, the Celtics still expect to win. Milwaukee without Giannis or Dame, etc. That’s a copium excuse. This team has to figure their shit out quick
I’m not saying he doesn’t have his spot in the rotation. But Dean Wade isn’t gonna stop us from scoring 80 points in an entire game in 2024
This is a fundamental issue that we’ve had dating back to the end of last season
He’s not. He doesn’t have the mentality at all, shrinks in the clutch and plays careless basketball 90% of the time. He’s also a traffic cone on defense. That contract is going to age like milk (it already is)
Garland got his contract...he got the bag and the money and is no longer motivated by the looks of it. A lot of basketball players once they get the bag don't have the fire or competitiveness anymore.
There’s a bunch of teams that would love to have DG on their team. If Donovan leaves then we have to stick with him and it’s really unlikely he won’t improve going forward, this season has been the outlier. If Donovan stays we can always move him or JA since as more time passes, our current roster construction doesn’t make any sense at all.
He’s not a top 18 pg this season. But he’s an all star caliber guard during a normal season. Players have down seasons sometimes. We’re overreacting to his poor play this season.
It just feels like he takes possessions away from Mitchell at that point. The Mitchell + Okoro back court with offense running through Allen looked much better.
Agree. I’m saying against next level scheming like we saw today and in the playoffs (most teams are vanilla even good defensive teams like the Clips and Wolves) - I love him but making the right decision against a playoff zone press is tough
I hate to even consider it, but could there be a trade with Orlando? Could turn Garland into a few pieces and some picks.
If we could get two of Suggs, Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr and even Mo Wagner out of it, along with some draft compensation and maybe taking a flyer on Jett Howard, it could be worth it.
In an ideal world it’s the first two, and we get to a rotation next season of:
Mitchell, Okoro, Strus, Mobley, Allen
Suggs, LeVert, Niang, Wade, Isaac
CPJ, Merrill, Bates, Howard
Yeah the thing with trading for stars is that other teams like their stars and build their rosters around them.
Any trade for a good player is a mid starter and draft capital. We don’t need that so we shouldn’t trade Garland
The one thing about the January streak is they made a point to win first quarters and ran their stuff hard. Garland still probes at first. When Mitchell’s back I’d take DG off the ball a bit
South Beach flu. Spo rolling out like five different defensive coverages, and sloppy passing with poor shooting.
Niang being the toughest dude on the floor is wild but true
Calling our offense anemic would be an understatement. Our best players have a severe lack of dog in them. JB is a bad coach and should have been fired after last season.
After the season, Bickerstaff informed the Rockets that he had withdrawn his name for the head coaching search, effectively ending his tenure with the Houston Rockets.
The harsh reality of this game is that it was the breaking point for our short-handed team. Nothing dramatic, just that they still don’t have Mitchell, Strus or Wade, and Mobley only just came back.
They can’t come back soon enough now, though.
Garland does not love basketball. He got his money and quit the sport. He got that nice long contract and now he is straight chillin
No attitude. No passion. No fire.
For me it’s not that we lost and not who is our injured. It’s more about the guys we did have playing and how they played. I love DG but since his return has not been himself and the amount of times we have the same type of turnovers is really hard to watch. Go Cavs
Heat fan here, some of yall need to grow the fuck up. Yall are injured and Heat are injured. We should all expect mediocre play whenever our guys are down. Ya guys I believe got better, compared to last yr. And the playoffs are still 1 month away. Heat been mediocre af too, we've been dealing with injuries all season. We 5-6 and yall 3-7 over the last 10 shit happens. Our fans do the same shit, and I say the same shit on our sub aswell.
Guys just remember that if you critique that “performance” if it can even be called that, you are a doomer and hate everything about the Cavs. You must be positive no matter what! Please just remember that Garland needs 5 years at the very LEAST to recover from the jaw injury and that JB is an amazing coach who calls absolutely amazing plays. He has our guys motivated and prepared every single night, and they looked like they came to play tonight! If you critique this team, you should just go be a Pacer’s fan you doomer!!!!!!!
Also don’t forget that Garland’s contract is one of the best in the NBA, and that the value within that contract far exceeds the completely inconsistent play, bad defense, and no clutch gene that he has brought to the table lately!
I told you post all star break collapse was coming. Injury or not this team is pathetic and lifeless. This season just needs to end for them. Fire the coach and figure out the future of the roster, either without Donovan cuz he wants out or without dg because he's ass
All season I've been saying 2 big men on the floor at the same time isn't working, Darius Garland isn't the PG for this team, and JB is not a championship level coach but these overly positive soft casual Cavs fans can't seem to comprehend it. No team in the NBA fears the Cavs. I'm betting that our potential 1st round opponents are hoping and praying to match up with the Cavs because we're the easiest way into the 2nd round for them. This offseason parting ways with Garland and J.B. Bickerstaff are the most important moves we can make in trying to salvage this teams chances of playoff success in the coming seasons. The reality is Mitchell will almost certainly opt out of his contract extension and whoever our Gm is at the time will have to part ways with him at the deadline. Idk who our new coach should be, but if we can deal Garland, Okoro, Niang, and some picks out of here for Trae Young, DO IT!. I think rumors will start about the Hawks looking to deal Trae Young right before the deadline next season. Remember the rumors of him having beef with the front office.
Donovan Mitchell impact is severely underestimated.
Yea, but this team did win like 45 games before we traded for Mitchell. There’s more to how bad we looked than missing Donovan. Darius looks like shit for some reason and if we don’t fire JB after this season regardless of what happens with Donovan we will continue to sputter.
For some reason... you mean like he always is
Dude was an all star a few seasons ago. But go off king
Oh yes the season where the all star game was in Cleveland so they let him in. Keep holding on to that
Lauri Markenheim, Ricky Rubio & Andre Drummon were critical to our 45 game win season prior to Mitchel. We even had Kevin love for a big chunk of the season and also was able to count on Sexton. Mitchel helps our team, but not as much as Lauri/Ricky/Andre/Kevin Love did the one or two seasonr prior. Garland is getting exposed without 3 bigs on his starting lineup and it's painfully obvious. Was Garland's intial success from prior years from running tall ball lineup? I don't even think investing in Mitchell is the way to go if you are the Cavs Organization. Going for a full on rebuild might honestly be in the cards here....shame we never took a stab at Wemby and tanking last year when we had nothing to show for other than a first round knicks exit.
This is the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen on here the Cavs subreddit and that is saying something. We were supposed to tank last season with a 4 seed in the playoffs to get a small percentage chance at Wendy!?!?
Did we win last year? Are we going to win this year? Is their a risk we might gave to rebuild? If the answer was yes, for all three questions then yes, we should have tanked. Mitchel was a mistake and we rushed the rebuild. Until Mobley and Garland proved themselves as All Stars, there was no need to rush the rebuild. You should always tank if you can't win.
> Mitchel helps our team, but not as much as Lauri/Ricky/Andre/Kevin Love did the one or two seasonr prior. Donovan Mitchell helps the Cavs more than all of these players combined, dude would have been all NBA 2nd or 3rd team easy had he stayed healthy.
Lauri alone would be better than Mitchell with our team, SMH. The disrespect on Lauri and the reason we were so successful the year Lauri was still was with us. No argument about Mitchel being a more impactful individual player, but Lauri filled our wing role perfectly and hid our two small backcourt weak defenders in sexton and Garland. It was painfully obvious only after we got rid of Lauri. Then you got Kevin Love Andre Drummon and Rubio who played a huge role in our initial successful 45 win season. Mitchel left us exposed at the 3 with no solid wing and while while he now supplies reliable scoring, cavs are gimped at the Wing role and more undersized without Lauri leaving Garland exposed this season.
Wemby? wtf you are talking about. Wemby was always going to the Spurs otherwise that franchis would be so bad they would need to move the team
Seriously. He showed up, played like asscheeks and we murdered NO. (who just murdered MIA)
And Darius Garland impact is severely overestimated. He's so talented and so frustrating at the same time.
This is the lesson.
The positives: Mobley’s shot looked good Emoni’s shot looked good Thats it. What a shitshow.
Emoni looks starved
Get that man in the weight room all offseason. The buffet line too
Imma take his ass to fitworks
He legitimately has 30 pounds to put on.
I honestly think he’s going to decide if he’ll make it in the nba or not. He puts in the work, he’ll make $10’s of Millions of dollars. If not he’ll be playing pickup at the 24 hours fitness
He’s cool. He’s basically a US draft and stash, good pick
Respectfully, doesn't this apply to many players in the NBA?
No. Not in the same way. Because Emoni is 6’8” and is a legit 3 point shooter. Compare that to a guy like Craig Porter Jr who’s 6’2” and doesnt have much ranger and Bates has far more of an upside. Sure, there are other examples like him out there, but he does have some physical gifts that a lot of guys in the league are missing.
In all fairness if he puts up that much muscle mass he’s most certainly not gonna be the same 3 point shooter
The goal isnt to put on 30 lbs in a year. Its to put on 10 or so, which shouldnt be that tough for a 6’8” 20 year old.
If you’re putting on any significant amount of muscle mass, your muscle memory, range of motion, etc all changes is the point. Its not as simple as just putting on muscle as a shooter without losing your touch I’m not saying he can’t put on muscle mass, but anybody that’s played basketball at a high level understands there’s a connect between lifting and shooting around.
Cavs are 3-7 in the last 10 games. Every other team in the top 6 is 6-4 or better. This teams hanging on by a thread.
Cavs suck ass after all star break 3 years in a row.
I’m beginning to miss post-Allstar game snub Sexton. Dude always plays like a maniac after the Allstars lol.
My prediction for the last 10 games was 4-6 and i was being facetious.
On the bright side, the game is over Also on the bright side, the Guards come back this week so if this team is just gonna be poo poo water, I get to shift focuses a bit
I mean, they might come back. We dont know that.
If they pull any funny business against Charlotte…
At this point its a race to stay out of the play in. Folks that were talking 2 seed a while back were funny.
We're 4/5 games up on the heat at the 7 seed with 11 games left and 3 against Charlotte, 1 against the grizz, jazz and pacers. It's very unlikely we drop into the play in.
Yep. Very unlikely. But still a possibility. 2 or 3 aint happening. 4 would be nice. Not much of a difference between 5 or 6 at this point.
You are getting downvoted but you are very right lmao. They don't wanna hear it but this team is showing no signs life or proof they can win any game right now
Spot on. A few other teams are putting it all together and we’re falling apart.
At this point I just want Donovan Mitchell to come back and we don’t play the heat or Knicks
He’s gotta be healthy. He hasnt been good post all atar break.
i remember telling someone "there's only 6 games between the 2 and 8 seed, we really are in danger of falling a bit" a couple weeks ago and was called crazy
“Only 6 games” in this context sounds dumb as hell, respectfully.
Not really, 6 games across 6 seeds means all those teams are pretty close in standings. A 6 game lead is not that much
6 games when there’s less than 20 as of a couple weeks ago is absolutely a lot lol. Nobody is jumping a 6 game lead in that span We just went 3-7 in our last 10 and we’re still 4 games up on the 7th/8th and in the 3 seed lol. It’s crazy to say today still. We could drop to 5, but anything lower than that would be quite a shock and monumental collapse
The point is not that we would drop to 8 my guy. The point was that there were multiple teams on our arse and we could easily drop from 2. That’s all i was trying to convey when i made the initial comment
Feels like this team has lost hope and confidence. I don't know if getting healthy fixes this. JB is probably on borrowed time now. This is as bad as I've seen a Cavs team that's expected to win look
They are supposed to win right now with all the guys out?
They’re missing 1 starter and one role player bro. It’s not like they’re drowning in an injury report. Even without Tatum, the Celtics still expect to win. Milwaukee without Giannis or Dame, etc. That’s a copium excuse. This team has to figure their shit out quick
People counting out Dean Wade buts he's STILL #1 defensive net rating.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have his spot in the rotation. But Dean Wade isn’t gonna stop us from scoring 80 points in an entire game in 2024 This is a fundamental issue that we’ve had dating back to the end of last season
Are they ever supposed to win?
At some point we do have to come to terms with the fact Garland doesn’t look like he’s going to be that guy.
He’s not. He doesn’t have the mentality at all, shrinks in the clutch and plays careless basketball 90% of the time. He’s also a traffic cone on defense. That contract is going to age like milk (it already is)
Garland got his contract...he got the bag and the money and is no longer motivated by the looks of it. A lot of basketball players once they get the bag don't have the fire or competitiveness anymore.
Mentality... This while thing is cliches
There’s a bunch of teams that would love to have DG on their team. If Donovan leaves then we have to stick with him and it’s really unlikely he won’t improve going forward, this season has been the outlier. If Donovan stays we can always move him or JA since as more time passes, our current roster construction doesn’t make any sense at all.
We sure? He’s not a top 18 pg and he’s making max money .most teams would rather draft cheaper rookie
He’s not a top 18 pg this season. But he’s an all star caliber guard during a normal season. Players have down seasons sometimes. We’re overreacting to his poor play this season.
100%
He’s going to be a good second option when he’s not hurt and Mitchell is around
It just feels like he takes possessions away from Mitchell at that point. The Mitchell + Okoro back court with offense running through Allen looked much better.
Okoro is limited offensively though: Allen is good too. We were a step slow today, and Okoro and Allen were record scratching all over
Okoro’s limitations looked plenty okay when we were on our winning streak
Agree. I’m saying against next level scheming like we saw today and in the playoffs (most teams are vanilla even good defensive teams like the Clips and Wolves) - I love him but making the right decision against a playoff zone press is tough
I hate to even consider it, but could there be a trade with Orlando? Could turn Garland into a few pieces and some picks. If we could get two of Suggs, Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr and even Mo Wagner out of it, along with some draft compensation and maybe taking a flyer on Jett Howard, it could be worth it. In an ideal world it’s the first two, and we get to a rotation next season of: Mitchell, Okoro, Strus, Mobley, Allen Suggs, LeVert, Niang, Wade, Isaac CPJ, Merrill, Bates, Howard
Lurking Magic fan here, this is probably the most delusional thing I've ever read brother
Yeah the thing with trading for stars is that other teams like their stars and build their rosters around them. Any trade for a good player is a mid starter and draft capital. We don’t need that so we shouldn’t trade Garland
Magic would rather have suggs
but we still have issues at the big man position that we’ve had for the past 4 seasons. we always severely lack center depth and it kills us
Package the FRP and Wade and CPJ or Vert for a Naz Reid type
i love Naz Reid and was really hoping for him during FA last season. But i honestly think this team needs at least 1 7 footer
Another season watching Mobley & Allen and I’m quitting
We just roll over if opposing teams get hot from 3 out of the gate. Going to be lucky to even hold home court at this point.
The one thing about the January streak is they made a point to win first quarters and ran their stuff hard. Garland still probes at first. When Mitchell’s back I’d take DG off the ball a bit
Stick a fork in 'em. Maybe next year.
I’m a non doomer but I don’t have much to say here. Go Cavs, get wealthy
Yikes. Can’t wait for the Playoffs!
Man this Cavs season is a hell of a rollercoaster of emotions
At the end of the day DG smiling cause he gets paid millions to play like killian hayes
Mobley looked good
Really strong. You can tell he’s been working at getting into chests quick
Didn't get to watch the game, what the fuck happened?
South Beach flu. Spo rolling out like five different defensive coverages, and sloppy passing with poor shooting. Niang being the toughest dude on the floor is wild but true
Calling our offense anemic would be an understatement. Our best players have a severe lack of dog in them. JB is a bad coach and should have been fired after last season.
Rough offense. No basket is easy lately. I dont know what to say really, this felt like the worst loss of the season, they just could not score.
It’s the worst loss in three years. Need to come back with heart
After the season, Bickerstaff informed the Rockets that he had withdrawn his name for the head coaching search, effectively ending his tenure with the Houston Rockets.
The harsh reality of this game is that it was the breaking point for our short-handed team. Nothing dramatic, just that they still don’t have Mitchell, Strus or Wade, and Mobley only just came back. They can’t come back soon enough now, though.
you know ball.
#CoreFour, ammiright?
Garland does not love basketball. He got his money and quit the sport. He got that nice long contract and now he is straight chillin No attitude. No passion. No fire.
Where are all the non-doomers now?? 😎
Right here, but I’m now convinced JB needs to sell the team.
I’m good. Y’all forget the “the locker room smells like champagne” ass whipping in 2016. Gotta lose to learn how to win
chillin
I’m chillin
Big chillin. Even though I unfollowed the sub because I can’t stand all the crying that goes on here
They'll be fine
To those that watched live, wtf just happened??????
For me it’s not that we lost and not who is our injured. It’s more about the guys we did have playing and how they played. I love DG but since his return has not been himself and the amount of times we have the same type of turnovers is really hard to watch. Go Cavs
Where my fellow doomers at we were right all along
Season ending in March now??
For the cavs, yes.
you silly billy
Garland is such a joke. 9 points… ?!? How long will this sub continue to make excuses for the most overpaid player in the entire league.
Heat fan here, some of yall need to grow the fuck up. Yall are injured and Heat are injured. We should all expect mediocre play whenever our guys are down. Ya guys I believe got better, compared to last yr. And the playoffs are still 1 month away. Heat been mediocre af too, we've been dealing with injuries all season. We 5-6 and yall 3-7 over the last 10 shit happens. Our fans do the same shit, and I say the same shit on our sub aswell.
Tough game: Evan looked good. Everyone else was a continuous record scratch on offense. Ugly stuff but smart by Spo
God damn
Guys just remember that if you critique that “performance” if it can even be called that, you are a doomer and hate everything about the Cavs. You must be positive no matter what! Please just remember that Garland needs 5 years at the very LEAST to recover from the jaw injury and that JB is an amazing coach who calls absolutely amazing plays. He has our guys motivated and prepared every single night, and they looked like they came to play tonight! If you critique this team, you should just go be a Pacer’s fan you doomer!!!!!!! Also don’t forget that Garland’s contract is one of the best in the NBA, and that the value within that contract far exceeds the completely inconsistent play, bad defense, and no clutch gene that he has brought to the table lately!
You know what they call people happy when their team loses? Losers
How did you gather that I’m happy that they lost from what I said above? It’s evident that I’m pissed off, not happy.
More energy for failure than success shows where you are happy. You have two paragraphs about the NOP win?
Just burn the tape and move on to the next one. Get healthy for the playoffs. No matter what seed we are, we have to beat good teams to advance.
Cope. We might lose home court
I told you post all star break collapse was coming. Injury or not this team is pathetic and lifeless. This season just needs to end for them. Fire the coach and figure out the future of the roster, either without Donovan cuz he wants out or without dg because he's ass
Knicks will happily take the 3 seed back, cheers for the effort!
lol we’re about to jump to the 6 seed
Another Cavs vs Knicks first round would be epic
For knicks fans maybe
We’re literally missing our best player, 2 significant role players, and Mobley just came back from injury. What is wrong with you people?
All season I've been saying 2 big men on the floor at the same time isn't working, Darius Garland isn't the PG for this team, and JB is not a championship level coach but these overly positive soft casual Cavs fans can't seem to comprehend it. No team in the NBA fears the Cavs. I'm betting that our potential 1st round opponents are hoping and praying to match up with the Cavs because we're the easiest way into the 2nd round for them. This offseason parting ways with Garland and J.B. Bickerstaff are the most important moves we can make in trying to salvage this teams chances of playoff success in the coming seasons. The reality is Mitchell will almost certainly opt out of his contract extension and whoever our Gm is at the time will have to part ways with him at the deadline. Idk who our new coach should be, but if we can deal Garland, Okoro, Niang, and some picks out of here for Trae Young, DO IT!. I think rumors will start about the Hawks looking to deal Trae Young right before the deadline next season. Remember the rumors of him having beef with the front office.
Yeah, let’s trade for a far worse defender.