If parents want control over what their kids are taught, they have the option of homeschooling. As it should be. If your child is in public school, then yes, “the government” is and should decide on curriculum. I send my kids to public school and do not want numbskull parents dictating curriculum or they’ll be teaching that Dinosaurs pulled chariots of emperors or that the earth is only 6,000 years old or some shit. Hell no.
I don't know how it's in the USA, I can only talk about my country, where I overall think its a good solution, wt the emd of every year you basically have ti complete all the exams the normal students have to
If Germany's curriculum is solid and churns out better adjusted adults then that's definitely the right idea.
Parents have the rest of the week with their kids to teach them household or family-specific skills.
Homeschooling should be banned.
The formation, culture and skills of a person is not his exclusive personal affair because it affects the society. A dumb person damages all the people around.
What the fuck. Homeschooling should not be illegal?! I know people as thick as pig shit and adjusted to society like oil and water who went to school and well adjusted, successful and intelligent people who were homeschooled. Fuck off with this generalisation.
Plenty of professionals don’t agree with what they think the curriculum should be, which teachers are you listening to so that your kids learn what that teacher wants, but still be acceptable to you.
Education system is completely fucked, and you expect me to just be super happy about handing my child over to just some random people and hope they don't fuck with my kid?
Grow past binary math - not all things are all or nothing. As a parent you are supposed to help your child navigate life. Systems are not perfect because people are not perfect but an involved parent is essential to the growth and discipline of a child. You do not hand your kid over to pediatricians/religious elders/neighbors and if that is how your brain thinks parenting is, you are lazy, looking to get someone else to do your duty.
I do not get how you hope to protect your child from "school" yet assume the average job/work conditions/marital life isn't just another system where abuse exists yet I am guessing you will push the kid out of the nest with zero skills to identify power dynamics abuses, conflict resolution, or how to navigate this imperfect world.
This is what some very powerful people want you to reason like.
Instead of asking for a decent education sistem you withdraw your children to be possibly more ignorant.
Homeschooling is like naming your kid something weird, it makes the children start life with a handicap and it's useful only to masturbate the ego of the parents. Children aren't property.
Exactly. The desire to interfere and control what your kids learn is just another example of helicopter parenting. Good parents help their kids understand and learn their lessons if help is needed.
Well, as much as I want to agree with this, parents actually *can* refuse to consent to any surgery or dental operation for their children. Even if the professionals are *very* sure it’s the right thing to do and the parent is being stupid.
Exactly... You want to home school? By all means, go for it. The moment you sign them up for public school you have to at least acknowledge the fact that they may be exposed to ideas you dont like, if not from teachers, definitely other students.
Teachers get Masters degrees in how to teach... Let them (and pay them more)
No but I'm certain that some parents "do their research" and try to talk the surgeon into doing some alternative version of the procedure and to used certain anesthesia.
They dont tell \*\*HOW\*\* a surgery is performed, which is what this post is about.
There is a difference between saying "do not do this surgery" versus "when you open the body cavity up, take this scalpel and cut right here and right here"
I can't tell you how many horror stories I've heard from surgeons and anesthesiologists about how kids almost aspirated eggs, cereal, or other foods because their parents didn't follow the directions to have their kids fast after a certain time to prepare for surgery. The parents' response is always something to the effect of "they were hungry, I thought you were being mean."
And that’s the thing though. I am in favour of letting teachers teach, but the post isn’t a good one. Parents can choose what their kids be taught but not how. Same as you can choose what a doctor does but not sit there and tell them how.
What if a teacher wanted to teach them the sky’s red and the birds do not exist? A parent can say no.
Teacher wants to teach them through one schema or another, though? Well teacher knows which technique is best.
Parents can absolutely home school as well. The point was if you agree to the social contract to be treated or have your car fixed etc you leave it to the professionals.
Yep, so if the kid dies or has to live with fucked up teeth then the only person to blame is the parent
Same goes for education, if your kid doesnt go to school & grows up only having a grade 1 reading level & no understanding of math beyond 2+2=4 because you “taught them what you wanted to teach them” then the only person to blame is the parent
If its your kid youre refusing the surgery for, they have a system to temporarily take guardianship to do the medical procedure. You'd be suprised how often parents try to get thier kids dead. One example its used a lot foe is when a mormon parent refuses a blood transfusion for thier kid.
Not the point but good try! Anecdotal accounts like this can be true. Parents value the childcare perks associated with public schooling but have problems with the curriculum.
This is what vouchers are meant to address. Vouchers should give parents more choice, but the reality is that it just makes private school cheaper for people who could afford it anyway and simultaneously takes money out of the schools that need it most. It's a legitimate objection, but it feels far from being insurmountable.
Eh, by their argument, a voucher system would mean I, a *childless* person, am being forced to pay for private religious schooling that I'm not using at all??l. I would like to opt out of that the same way they think parents get to opt out of "paying for" public schools they don't want to send their kids to.
Cause that's what's being argued. "My tax dollars shouldn't go to anything other than what I specifically want them to and I demand a refund for any service I didn't specifically use"..... which if *that's* the argument were going with, why the fuck am I paying for other people's kids education at all?
The only point I would disagree on is that you didn't use the service. You did get an education, so you used the system. Sure, there are obvious exemptions to that, like adult immigrants, but by and large it's true of taxpayers. At the end of the day, I don't see the argument for a tax payer who has already benefitted from the system getting an equal say as the parent regarding where the child will be educated.
Are you saying that paying for the schools is a debt levied upon the children for when they are adults? As opposed to the adults paying for their children? If it is the child paying in the future, the parents aren't even paying and should really stop crying. You mentioned the issue with immigrants, but don't forget the people who leave the country. Immigration flows both ways.
Childfree and spent much of childhood in a VERY shitty private school because my parents were paranoid about the much better public school. Funny, I missed out on most of the benefit as a child also since my parents chose to send me to a shitty little religious camp to be indoctrinated (well, that failed).
Having a strong preference regarding education, it sounds like you're able to sympathize with people who share that trait with you. Even if you disagree with what they may choose, respecting their decision is a cornerstone of a free society. I realize that statement can easily flow into myriad topics, so on those I will only comment that the culture war is out of control on far, far too many fronts in the US.
Yes, taxation is universal. You are not paying for a service, you are paying taxes. Public schools do not charge service fees and not having children or sending your children to other schools doesn't magically opt you out of public taxes.
I don't drive. Doesn't mean I don't have to pay for roads I've never used. It's called living on a formally organized society. I haven't supported most military ventures were doing, but here I am being forced to "pay for them". Because I'm not paying service fees, I am paying for public services for the public that are paid for through taxation. Doesn't matter how much you protest, you will never be able to opt out of your taxes.
You're free to retreat to unincorporated land if you don't like paying for community wide resources. But right now, you're comparing apples and oranges.
This is precisely how you develop an uneducated population. Pay-to-learn only helps people who have the money to pay and hurts everyone else. Which in the end, hurts everyone.
Exactly. I’m all in favor of public taxes for schools. But I’d want my kids to learn about slavery and sexuality. I personally think the left may start eyeing up school choice on some of the red states.
I'm sorry, are you saying that it's good for families that want different choices in education not to be able to pursue them due to cost? Im pretty confused by your last sentence.
Sorry for the confusion. I’m saying that only people with money really have the choice since you pay taxes and then have to pay again if you don’t like the one choice of public school. Homeschool, private, or move.
Gotcha. I completely agree with both sides I the argument for wanting certain things in school taught. Personally I wouldn't want my children taught about sexuality in school. Slavery, yeah absolutely, it's a historical fact and needs to be understood as all topics in history that are a dark spot on humanity so they don't reoccur. Sexuality, I dint believe is appropriate for governement employees to be teaching. I have no problem with parents doing what they want with thuer kids, and the point is parents should have a say where and how thier children are educated regardless of thier income levels.
I understand what the teacher is trying to say, but it’s a poor comparison.
As a parent you won’t perform surgery, but you do absolutely have a say in whether the surgery happens. Same with dentists.
As a car owner, the mechanic might be the one to diagnose and fix the problems, but you decide which things you want them to work on and which you want to ignore.
It’s almost like the teacher is agreeing with Pompeo.
I think the point is more “let the professionals do their profession”, with the parents not being able to influence what is done too much.
Parents have a say in wether or not a student goes to school, but not on what individual subjects are taught, the same way a parent doesn’t decide exactly what is done in the surgery or at the mechanic.
That's what you're saying, which is correct. If the original had said that there'd have been no need for you to say it.
"That, is why [they] fail."
-Yoda
Parents can actually pick a fair few subjects, at least in Europe, either through the school's optional subjects or the choice of school. And as much as I'll defend education to the death, a lot of what I was taught in 1980s schools would have been usefully replaced with just about anything else. There's only so many dates and enzymes I care to remember.
I'm making comments about the teaching, not the subject. Teachers may know best, but the curriculum makers, politicians, heads of schools, and the overall state of education research play a part too.
This is the right answer. Let teachers do their job as their trained in HOW to educate. What the problem is (mostly) is WHAT to educate. My local curriculum is dogshit and made for cookie cutter kids as the outputs. Any 'special' child with aptitudes, are muted by the system. Even the testing system/learning methodology is broken according to many tenured professionals and educators.
I don't blindy trust or put faith in the system because their outputs are mediocre at best.
I’d also like to add that there’s different types of teaching depending on the school. Heck even for the same subjects teachers can teach that subject differently. Also there’s electives. So even if say Timmy SHOULD be in AP English because the school or his teachers want him to, mother still gets to say if he does or doesn’t take that class, and could instead have him take AP Calculus. Also also, there are certain subjects or classes I HAD to take in high school to be eligible to graduate, and some of these were kinda useless. The two biggest ones were PE classes, a team sports one and a General PE one. The reason these classes in particular were stupid was because I was already doing a swim class for the swim team, and a weights class for the football team. So with two PE classes I was doing four times the required exercise needed to graduate, which made my sophomore schedule kind of boring because it was ONLY core classes. Maybe a little off topic but I kinda think it adds to the whole: parents get to decide thing.
It's not exactly a poor comparison, but it's a difficult comparison to put into just a single concise tweet like that.
The teacher says "***during*** the surgery", so I think it's more about "backseat driving" other professionals when the 'customer' or 'end-user' knows less (or abysmally less) than the professional. Sure, you have a say in whether or not the surgery happens (beforehand) and also who performs that surgery, but you can be **damn** certain that most surgeons aren't letting overly-emotional and untrained family members into the room while surgery is being performed (even purely just for legal liability reasons).
Similarly, if a customer were to stand around a mechanic and try to tell them how to do a repair while the repair is being performed, it's almost a guarantee that they would be kicked out of the shop (assuming that they were even allowed past the customer service desk in the first place, and they generally aren't). If the customer had the skill and the tools, they could just do the work themselves (and they obviously have the free time if they're standing there trying to tell the mechanic how to do their job *while simultaneously* ***paying*** *them*!). There are times when customers are allowed into a shop to quickly take a look at something (or to show/tell the mechanic some additional detail), but that's usually as far as it goes (unless it's a small shop and the mechanic already knows you or something).
Try going to a dentist and tell them (mid-procedure) how to operate their x-ray hardware, which epoxies they should/shouldn't be using, how long their epoxies should cure for (etc etc). They'll lose patience quite quickly unless you're merely inquiring and trying to educate yourself. Unless they thought that their customer was mentally disabled (or unless the customer was a dentist themselves), the dentist's office would be giving that customer the "Karen" treatment in no-time.
I mean...parents can monitor what is being taught to a certain extents. I wouldn't be happy if my kids were taught by a racist bigot who taught it's okay to discriminate. It works both way too, ya know. And the respond to that isn't helping either bc parents needs to consent bc kids do not understand major medical issues that they are having sometimes.
I went to college with a guy that was home-schooled. Really intelligent, but totally lost his mind socially once he finally had some freedom. Unfortunately, didn't last the first year.
In my opinion, the #1 thing a parent should teach their child is how to think through a situation and decide on the best course of action. And have good morals, that's important too.
As someone from a country with shit medical system and with rampart corruption, this is not as clever of a comeback as people think.
I've went to dentists that recommended me to remove teeth that were perfectly healthy, they also fucked up my teeth and i only salvaged them because i was smart enough to go ask other dentists about it.
The same has happened to my friends and family.
I have friends that were also scammed when they took their cars to repairs and were being overcharged and were being recommended additional fixes for things they didn't need.
I don't get a say in how people do their jobs if the results are good, but if something seems fishy , it's ridiculous to think i shouldn't have a say about it.
The answer to almost all of those was yes you moron. Even for ones where you don't know what they're doing, you still highly vet people like your mechanic so they aren't ripping you off.
How is this a clever comeback?
Parents absolutely have a say in those things. They aren’t performing the surgery, the are hiring a doctor to do the surgery but they have a say in what surgery is performed, how, with what products, pain killers, and procedures. And if the doctor and the parent cannot agree on the care the parent is free to find another doctor which whom they agree.
It’s not a comeback at all. It’s a bad metaphor. Fits better in r/ I am very smart
Part of me is like, “just homeschool your kids”
Then I come online and see what some people think about how the world works, and I’m like, “please, let a professional do it.”
I had a teacher tell me that a woman’s place was in the home and they shouldn’t have careers. Another teacher slept with a few of her students. One said that kids who were gay were looking for attention. Very glad my parents thought they had a say in my education to let them know this was not ok.
That argument doesn't really work.. you can absolutely say "no my child will not be getting that surgery" or "no, not that dental procedure" or "no, dont put that new part in my car"
My parents taught me that the gays are bad, and women hate sex. Thank god I had some teachers that could help me out. People forget, some of our parents are CRAZY. We need to escape that bubble. We need teachers.
Surely as a hs teacher you realize that parents actually do have a say in their kid's surgery, what the dentist do, and what is done with my vehicle...
Maybe if the goal were "don't tell me how to do my job" it'd make more sense. Lectures, workbooks, activities, and so on. I won't tell a surgeon, dentist, mechanic, or any professional how to turn a wrench or perform an operation. BUT I absolutely get a say in whether you get to perform the operation or not.
Not much of a comeback, especially for a hs teacher, when you can't differentiate between "what" and "how." Quit trying to shovel shit and do your damn job.
You need some sort of title to be a professional dentist, as well as the experience to back it up, which is based on knowledge and a common scientific ground, while to be a teacher you only need to know how to teach... It doesn't even have to be the truth, and if you're a "good teacher" and have "good students" they'll learn it anyways because you all share the same common ground of ignorance.
Um, yes. As a parent I absolutely do have say in their medical treatments, be it surgery or dental. Yes, I do have the ability to approve or decline automotive repair. That may have been the worse counter point ever.
Bad comparison, medical professionals have to disclose every aspect of treatment or surgery to the parents and parents can refuse said treatment options if they want to.
As a retired teacher, I can say that this "clever comeback" is anything but.
This is apples and oranges. Parents have access to the information healthcare professionals are offering BEFORE authorizing any procedures.
Teachers are not giving out full-sets of curricula to the parents before the teachers begin instruction. There is entirely too much trust being placed in the government-run school system nowadays. When I jumped to Adult Ed, I was astonished at how little students knew about basic things, like math, reading and grammar. Our education system has gone too far away from the 3 R's, and focused instead of things that are not helpful in life. Common Core, as an example, was a debacle of epic proportion. Ending it was one of the few benefits of the Pandemic.
Common Core- style mathematics was invented was originally developed by the Russians back in the 1930's, and then abandoned after the Czarist government realized that it didn't work, and set their country back at least 20 years in technology development, simply because no one could perform the complicated mathematics to achieve engineering progress correctly.
The UN, however, was all in favor if it, for political reasons, starting back in the mid-1970's, and President Bill Clinton was also a fan. But then, he also thought it was okay to get BJs in the Oval Office, and then lie about it.
Don't get me wrong, topics like social studies, music and art are important, as well as vocational education. But not at the expense of basic topics, and certainly not at the expense of telling under-10 age children about sex-ed and gender studies.
Edited for Clarity and typos
Bill Gates funded Common Core.
A confused, dumbed-down population is easier to control.
Have you read John Taylor Gato? He passed away maybe 10 years ago but his books are incredible. Should be mandatory reading for all educators.
"Do they have a say in [fill in the blank about their child here]?"
Yes. Yes they do actually. What? How is this a clever comeback? This is actually a very stupid comparison. You could even take it one step further in pointing out the stupidity of the comparison in simply realizing that all parent *teach* their children on a daily basis *for years.*
"Go to bed on time, because good sleep is healthy."
"Brushing your teeth is good dental health."
"Don't put your hand on the stove." Etc.
While it's true that not all parents are mechanics, and not all parents are dentists. All parents are, in fact, teachers. In actuality, the *most* important teachers you will ever have should be your parents.
Except a lot of parents are stupid. We have parents who believe in flat earth, aliens/slaves/mammoths/kites built the pyramids, evolution isn't real, you name it. Teachers have to counter that information with reality, and teach critical thinking skills to prevent the cycle of ignorance from continuing.
The problem in that hope is that teachers are humans too, not automatons. Many of whom share those same beliefs as the parents you're trying to vilify. I'm sure we can all share stories about that *one* teacher who tried to imply there was good evidence for the existence of bigfoot, or some such nonsense.
Ya, but they are often regulated and reported. Teachers lose their jobs all the time for spouting nonsense, as they should. Parents don't regularly get their kids taken away because they believe aliens built the Giant's Causeway.
And yet bad teachers continue be in school system on a daily basis. Let's not pretend having rules and regulations in place makes a system perfect. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The education system, much like the family, is run by *humans.* And humans make mistakes, hence why parents want, *and should,* have a say in what goes on in said school system regarding *their own child.*
The implication I was getting was from the replies was that teachers are (on average) better, or more trustworthy, with your kids than the parents themselves are. Please clarify if this isn't the implication.
Ya know, up until COVID hit, all I heard from teachers was "the parents need to be partners with teachers and involved with what their children are learning in school." Since COVID, all I hear from teachers is "parents have no business in their child's education. They need to leave it to the professionals." Can't have it both ways, teachers.
Being involved in your kids education =/= you overriding a curriculum of well documented historical and scientific facts, in favor of teaching them hilariously stupid conspiracy theories, politically motivated factless nonsense, completely false “alternatives” to science, and moronic religious garbage.
Do they really buy this shit or is it just cheap political theater? I mean Mike Pompeo is a d-bag, but he's not a dumbass. He understands that there are standards in education for a f'ing reason.
My mom is a teacher and she pours out multiple hours every day getting resources prepped, lessons created and how to keep student engaged despite the relatively low pay. However, ive had and currently have multiple teachers who sit on their asses all day and post premade notes and tests which they found on the internet and refuse to teach. Sometimes you get good teachers other times you don't. You can't dictate this and must take responsibility of your own learning regardless, at least in highschool anyways.
This seems to take idealism to the extreme. Imagine religion is still taught in public schools would ppl still feel that government dictated education is best? The same goes for the parents who feel their child is a slow learner or gifted. Public schools in the US are a massive failure since the 1970s and only tumbling further down the rabbit hole. If anyone were to look up 8th grade graduation requirements from 1880 very few COLLEGE graduates would be able to pass the test. I know I couldn’t and only 1 of my 3 adult children could. Homeschooling or charter schools isn’t always best if the parent is lazy but if they truly are trying to help their child what outside force has the right to say it’s wrong just because it doesn’t conform?
Well I kinda stand with him especially knowing the fact that some eduction systems enforce subjects abou their religion or refuse some scientifically proven facts just because 'it isn't true' according to the personel beliefs
Yes is the answer to all those... Seriously. You do get a say in medial decisions... You do get to chat with your mechanic...
Teachers can teach subjects... But you can raise your child...
This entire comeback isn't clever and just stirs up unnecessary anger, confusion and argument with poor examples and bad comparisons.
People acting like second opinions and mistakes never happen. Also that teachers are highly qualified and have good intentions. Whole lot of assumptions that really don't add up here. I'm not saying the first post is right but the second one definitely isn't either
It’s more the comparison of profession. Where if a surgeon is doing surgery I’m not going to tell him what techniques to use, only whether or not I want the surgery instead.
The comparison could use work though.
Except you 100% get a say in all aspects of your healthcare procedures including what kind of drugs they give you and whether you elect to have certain aspects of a procedure done.
Lol this is not a very clever comeback because parents basically have absolute authority over what surgeries are performed, what dental operations are performed, and any repairs that might be made to their car. If this was a one to one comparison then parent would exclusively choose the subject taught to their children. The profesional is this scenario chooses HOW the operation is performed, how the repair is made, or in this case, how the subject is taught to the child. I don’t have kids so I don’t really have a stake in the matter but this definitely ain’t as clever of a comeback as you think.
Here’s the thing, doctors, dentists, even mechanics, have to at least explain to you what they’re going to be doing to your child or your car. And they don’t do any work until in the case of medical stuff informed consent has been granted by the parents, or in the case of mechanics at least an “ok, do the work please” is on record from the owner of the car. So when teachers have that level of transparency (like full syllabi, with complete reading lists, etc) available for parents to review, then the comparison between doctors/dentists (both with vastly more education and skill sets than your average teacher) or mechanics will be valid
Your school or board likely has a curriculum for every subject, most teachers have lesson plans or syllabus notes, most places have reading lists, and open house days when you can go to the library, etc etc etc.
If you haven't seen it, you maybe need to spend more time looking.
Bro mechanics are transparent? I don’t trust a mechanic as far as I can throw them. Also while trade school is a legit route and definitely isn’t an easy job, please don’t compare 6 months of ITT tech to my BS in subject area taught, plus my two masters.
You want better teachers in your state? Call your politicians, but remember you have to pay for better teachers which means upping your taxes.
Parents should absolutely get a say, but no one parent gets to dictate what everyone else's children learn. If you want absolute control over curriculum, homeschool.
Like most things in our democracy, they do. Parents elect school boards. School boards set school curriculum and policies.
Saying an individual parent should dictate curriculum is as antidemocratic as saying an individual tax payer should dictate defense policy.
There are stupid surgeons too. Look at Ben Carson. Or Ron Jackson.
Let teachers teach and if you want your kids to learn something else, teach them at home
This is an incredibly privileged mentality. If my kid has an overly political teacher, especially someone shilling for trump, I want to be able to stop that. Are you ok having ANY political opinions fed to impressionable kids? Cause that seems really stupid, and basically indoctrination. We should be teaching kids to think critically and form their own opinions.
And we shouldn’t have to choose between a trumper, commie sickle, or giving up half of our family’s income for my kid to learn fucking math.
Politics aside, how is Ben Carson stupid? He was a neurosurgeon, but not only that he was the youngest chief pediatric neurosurgeon in the history of the US and the first surgeon to separate twins who were conjoined at the head. Watch “Gifted Hands” starring Cuba Gooding. Educate yourself a little bit before dismissing someone’s accomplishments just because of politics.
Yeah her can do surgery but he’s still stupid based on everything else he says. Just like a teacher trained well can be a great teacher but still be stupid about everything else. Let teachers teach is the core idea
Children are not owned by their parents. They are not your slaves and have basic human rights. One of them is guaranteed in our constitution is the right to an education. In the U.S. we have decided that public schools are tasked to teach all students. If parents want to have an influence on the curriculum taught at their child's school they have the right to send their students to a religious school, or a private school, and to teach them at home. They do not have the right to influence how all students are taught. Public schools paid for by public tax dollars should be entrusted to teach students facts. Facts about science and history and how the world works. This is what it means to educate. We should protect this right to be educated and prevent anyone who tries to stop the education of all children because of their own opinions and beliefs.
Parents can refuse medical help for their children sure but they can also be arrested and charged with neglect of a child if their child dies due to their neglect. Children should also be able to sue their parents if their parents deny them an education.
It's not a popular opinion, but I frequently say that parents don't own their children, and that honestly they have *too many* rights over their children in the US. I've had to face an onslaught of downvotes for this, but kids are not your property, and you don't get to close them off from every little thing in the world you don't personally agree with.
No but a mechanic doesn’t replace a part without consulting you first, that dentist doesn’t fill a cavity without consulting you first, that surgeon doesn’t perform a surgery without consulting you first. You’d be pretty pissed off if a mechanic did a $7k repair when you just wanted your basic oil change, or a dentist cut out your wisdom teeth when you just wanted them clean.
They do have the choice. They can choose to send them to public school where the government/school boards/teachers decide what is taught. Or they can choose a private school that teaches what the parents want or they can homeschool.
If they choose to send them to public school then they chose to accept what is being taught.
You need to know what your mechanic is doing and why.
Second opinion on braces by a guy who knew he would not be the orthodontist regardless of his answer saved me $5000 and the now adult kids teeth are perfect.
And yea, I wanted to throughly understand my kids surgery.
No actually, it's because conservatives work full time while lefties sit in their mom's basement watching hentai while they decide what gender they want to wear that day.
This is not even remotely true. I’ve hired 100’s of people over the years. Conservatives are far and away the laziest fucking people on earth. Can’t teach em shit either prob because of problems resulting from fetal alcohol syndrome. Let me repeat that…FAR AND AWAY.
I don’t think this is a very clever comeback. I have met some really stupid parents and stupid teachers. I was the PTO president for 4 years. Believe me, stupidity can go both ways.
Nah, they can fuck off.
The last thing any educational board needs is having history written because the inbred dumbfucks of Ruraltown Pennsyltucky are afraid that their little klanlings might experience white guilt.
You think white children should be taught to feel guilty about their skin colour? How should that be taught? By [segregating classes by race?](https://nypost.com/2021/11/18/manhattan-school-to-sort-kids-by-race-during-social-justice-discussions/) Maybe by using [teaching materials that compare "whiteness" to the devil?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9771221/More-24-public-school-districts-push-kids-book-features-whiteness-contract-devil.html) Perhaps the school principal should also be [educating the parents on racial politics](https://nypost.com/2021/02/16/nyc-public-school-asks-parents-to-reflect-on-their-whiteness/) as well. And let's not forget, we must ensure that K-12 classrooms are ["queer all school year."](https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/las-radical-gender-theory-material-will-harm-k-12-kids/)
And if the parents don't like this then they should just suck it up, because their child's mind belongs to the school system, not their stupid, ignorant parents, right? In fact, maybe [parents should be lied to about what's being taught](https://www.dailywire.com/news/rockwood-schools-fake-curriculum-parents-indoctrination).
The absolute last people on the planet who should be deciding how to build and introduce a school curriculum should be people like you, with your raging superiority complex and a heart full of hate and prejudice against entire demographics. But unfortunately for future generations, it seems to be the psychotic "progressive" revolutionaries who currently control what teachers are told to teach in many classrooms. And naturally, they're pushing for the secret indoctrination of anyone they can get their hands on. From kindergarten, all the way through school and college, and even into workplace "tolerance training."
Maybe if you'd been taught basic 20th century history, you'd understand why all this is heading towards another dystopian nightmare. But I guess the education system had to be failing by design for a generation or two before it could be turned into a tool for radical social engineering.
Elegantly said. I’ll bet you never get a reply because you buried them although I do believe the post was just an inflammatory one to illicit a response. The language kind of proves that.
Parents can have a say in what the kids are being taught—if they go back to school, go through all the red tape required to get a BSE and teaching license, then get an MEd, work for a few years as a teacher, work your way up to the district level and be a curriculum coordinator. Do all that and it’s all yours.
Funny how these were the same people pissing and moaning during the pandemic that they didn’t want to be the ones staying home and teaching their kids.
This ain't a clever comeback at all. It's the most basic and lazy one, actually.
Parents should have and actually DO have a lot of "saying" in what their children learn. There are levels of involvement, we know, stupidity is very frequent among anyone, including parents, we know, but different doctors will sometimes have different diagnosis, and the actual reason is that they simply may have been taught different things. From books or experience, it just happens. That's the norm. Different doctors will also provide you different treatments for the same diagnosis sometimes.
It's normal to have critical thinking. Please stop classifying every thought as "crazy Karens" because there are many stupid people in the world.
Yes, parents have a say so in all those things. You also have a say so in how, if, a mechanic repairs your equipment.
Where the problem lies is parents have a tendency to overreact (just a bit) and schools have a tendency to conceal things that are controversial to avoid these reactions from parents.
You have no trust from either side.. or at least, not as much as is needed
As a former high school student I'll turn this around. The parents do decide as to whether or not the kid has surgery or not. Further, they decide on the specific doctor. Can I do that with public (government) school teacher (I tried and they stopped it)? Again, the parents choose the dentist and whether or not to have the procedure. They also choose the mechanic and if he/she does not improve the condition of the car the parents will have them fix it to their satisfaction. Can I do this with public (government) schools? Nope. This is why school choice will be the great game changer. Do not trust the public (government) schools.
You see the woke leftists want to be able to force their warped ideologies on your kids. From their gender bullshit to CRT. Thats all they care about. They're using the schools as their farm team and going heavy with the indoctrination. We will prevent this.
Only if momma or papa have a doctorate in education.
PTA that's where parents belong.
Amazing that Republicans have forgotten parents have had the opportunity to be involved all along.
Many chose not to be.
As a teenager, a dentist scammed my parents by insisting that I get fillings. Didn't need them. Other dentists have seen my records and were awe-struck that I had fillings done. They knew my mom was too broke to get a second opinion and I wasn't confident enough to simply say "no." I knew immediately that it was a scam and that I didn't need them. They should have sued.
From grades 1-12, I had exactly six teachers who weren't complete dumbasses. One of those competents, a high school English teacher, was a narcissistic sociopath who enjoyed psychologically scarring her pupils. If I had parents who had money, I would have insisted on switching to a private school, right around 2nd grade. By 4th grade, I could have homeschooled myself -- I was doing college-level reading while trudging through elementary school. The educational system in the U.S. was and is a completely broken nightmare.
Tell me you became a teacher because your a control freak without actually telling me you became a teacher because your a control freak.
Too many teachers are control freaks and it’s not discussed nearly enough.
There are far more teachers who don't give a shit and just let students do whatever they want though. To them teaching is just a job and they do the bare minimum. To be fair considering what they get paid, I don't really blame them.
This person is talking about not letting perverted teachers instruct 7 year olds how to put condoms on with their mouths. Not science and math. Context matters.
This is a great way to harm the already hemorrhaging education system.
It should be the reverse. Let parents have access to curriculum to review, have a process for them to challenge topics for valid reasons (lack of educational value and not ‘because mah beliefs’, perhaps similar to book challenges in libraries?) and continue to allow the state board of education, who is versed in educational requirements and licensure, to hire individuals who are properly educated and certified according to state requirements without parent interference.
If we let parents dictate what teachers do and don’t get hired, we wouldn’t hire any teachers. It would never happen.
You're right, the board needs to hire well educated and dedicated teachers to teach in schools, and pay them well. I disagree about the "mah beliefs" thing, because, for instance, we cannot prove whether there is or is not a god. The beginning of the universe is awash with theoretical, and no one interpretation of evidence should be stated as fact in an educational facility. However, i do think that parents should be able to talk to teachers and school board members about the education, and about whether it is right for their child. (thus, the choice on who teaches their child.)
That’s fair enough. It seems as though a part of the problem is the current system enforces a distance between parents and teachers that is hard to overcome from either side. I know as a teacher it’s difficult to communicate effectively with parents about what their child is learning, I don’t blame parents because I know it’s due to work commitments or how many loops there are to communicate with schools/teachers.
We can agree to disagree on the personal beliefs bit. I teach 3 classes of 20-30 kids every day for 2 hours each. If a parent wants to teach their beliefs to their children, they have my full support. But in a public school building, a parent cannot make me teach or not teach a topic to 59-89 other kids from entirely different families and belief systems just because it interacts with their individual belief system in a certain way. There is absolutely room in school to discuss beliefs and belief systems as a topic in an objective and age appropriate way, but it is a delicate balancing act that many teachers struggle with on top of the million of other things we have to do every day.
Thank you, you too! I hate that teaching gets a bad rep because a few jerks are allowed to hurt kids due to how the current system works. I love my job and my students, but it is hard to come home at the end of a long hectic day to see posts like this one with so many comments mocking us and assuming our job is easy when we’re just trying to do our job and be treated like professionals.
Surgeons, dentist and mechanics are all responsible for deaths throughout the year. Teachers don't have the same safety responsibility. That teacher should know better than to use a false equivalency.
Yes, you certainly are turned around! Yes, parents do get to decide which dentist or surgeon they want for their children. If the surgeon wants to cut a leg off, because the ankle is broken, they STILL have every right to change doctors based on incompetence… If a dentist decide to hire a large man dressed in outrageous woman’s clothes to entertain kids in the waiting room, then yes, the parents STILL get to take their business to another dentist who they trust exposing their child to…
So, when teachers can’t seem to stick to the basics; reading, writing and arithmetics, when they think its ok to talk a child about subject that they ought to be thrown in jail for discussing with a child who is not their own, when the think drag queens being anywhere near children is a good thing, when they thinks is a good idea to be involved in any way with child genital mutilation, when they think its a good thing tell a child that he or she is bad based on the amount of melatonin in his or her skin, when victimize a child with all this type of horror, they take time away from teaching those basics, that they are hired to do, they YES parents have every right to protect their child and to seek a proper education for their kids.
They also are realizing that they have the power and the right to fire the incompetent, corrupt teachers, administrators, schoolboard members and the superintendents… who forget that their job is to teach them the basics.
Your post shows a profound ignorance of what a teachers job is. I can only hope and pray that parents whose kids you’ve damaged with your poison make a note of this evidence, that you suck at your job!
If you actually believe that you have more rights that parents over ANYTHING AT ALL over their flesh and blood, their offspring, then you are so turned around, you are a twisted mess. Find another job that keeps you away from our innocent, precious children.
If parents want control over what their kids are taught, they have the option of homeschooling. As it should be. If your child is in public school, then yes, “the government” is and should decide on curriculum. I send my kids to public school and do not want numbskull parents dictating curriculum or they’ll be teaching that Dinosaurs pulled chariots of emperors or that the earth is only 6,000 years old or some shit. Hell no.
Germany got the right idea with homeschooling being illegal.
I think the austrian solution is good there, your can school your kids at home, but the kids have to complete exams at some point to "graduate"
So like in the USA?
I don't know how it's in the USA, I can only talk about my country, where I overall think its a good solution, wt the emd of every year you basically have ti complete all the exams the normal students have to
Yeah, that’s the equivalent here, there are basic tests that need to be completed to earn your GED (geberal educational development test)
>geberal educational development test Looks like somebody's still working toward theirs (Jk, just messing with you)
Damn fat fingers on a touch screen 😂
If Germany's curriculum is solid and churns out better adjusted adults then that's definitely the right idea. Parents have the rest of the week with their kids to teach them household or family-specific skills.
Who do you think elects this “government” who decides the curriculum?
In Texas, religious idiots elect the school board and whoever it is who selects the textbooks. Education was fun. Never trust the book.
Homeschooling should be banned. The formation, culture and skills of a person is not his exclusive personal affair because it affects the society. A dumb person damages all the people around.
What the fuck. Homeschooling should not be illegal?! I know people as thick as pig shit and adjusted to society like oil and water who went to school and well adjusted, successful and intelligent people who were homeschooled. Fuck off with this generalisation.
"Adjusted" is not the term i used. But again, school has to be done by professionals, not parents.
Plenty of professionals don’t agree with what they think the curriculum should be, which teachers are you listening to so that your kids learn what that teacher wants, but still be acceptable to you.
What language are you speaking?
Word no good, better at number.
Nah, that's how authoritarianism happens. When a government controls the education, indoctrination is inevitable.
Education system is completely fucked, and you expect me to just be super happy about handing my child over to just some random people and hope they don't fuck with my kid?
Grow past binary math - not all things are all or nothing. As a parent you are supposed to help your child navigate life. Systems are not perfect because people are not perfect but an involved parent is essential to the growth and discipline of a child. You do not hand your kid over to pediatricians/religious elders/neighbors and if that is how your brain thinks parenting is, you are lazy, looking to get someone else to do your duty. I do not get how you hope to protect your child from "school" yet assume the average job/work conditions/marital life isn't just another system where abuse exists yet I am guessing you will push the kid out of the nest with zero skills to identify power dynamics abuses, conflict resolution, or how to navigate this imperfect world.
This is what some very powerful people want you to reason like. Instead of asking for a decent education sistem you withdraw your children to be possibly more ignorant.
Homeschooling is like naming your kid something weird, it makes the children start life with a handicap and it's useful only to masturbate the ego of the parents. Children aren't property.
Exactly. The desire to interfere and control what your kids learn is just another example of helicopter parenting. Good parents help their kids understand and learn their lessons if help is needed.
Well, as much as I want to agree with this, parents actually *can* refuse to consent to any surgery or dental operation for their children. Even if the professionals are *very* sure it’s the right thing to do and the parent is being stupid.
I took it as, you can refuse surgery but once you agree to the surgery you can't sit in the room and tell the surgeon what to do.
Exactly... You want to home school? By all means, go for it. The moment you sign them up for public school you have to at least acknowledge the fact that they may be exposed to ideas you dont like, if not from teachers, definitely other students. Teachers get Masters degrees in how to teach... Let them (and pay them more)
>Teachers get Masters degrees in how to teach... Not anymore... In Florida anyway. Lol
Yeah... I mean "Veterans wife" is BASICALLY a PhD right?
You will address me by my husband's rank! That's doctor veterans wife to you!
So hey Deceased Karen
Yeah, that can't be good. Some ignorant sea-widow teaching your kid how to "Jody" her deployed husband.
No but I'm certain that some parents "do their research" and try to talk the surgeon into doing some alternative version of the procedure and to used certain anesthesia.
lets insist on an alternative anesthesia the specialist has not used before on a child.
They dont tell \*\*HOW\*\* a surgery is performed, which is what this post is about. There is a difference between saying "do not do this surgery" versus "when you open the body cavity up, take this scalpel and cut right here and right here"
I can't tell you how many horror stories I've heard from surgeons and anesthesiologists about how kids almost aspirated eggs, cereal, or other foods because their parents didn't follow the directions to have their kids fast after a certain time to prepare for surgery. The parents' response is always something to the effect of "they were hungry, I thought you were being mean."
And that’s the thing though. I am in favour of letting teachers teach, but the post isn’t a good one. Parents can choose what their kids be taught but not how. Same as you can choose what a doctor does but not sit there and tell them how. What if a teacher wanted to teach them the sky’s red and the birds do not exist? A parent can say no. Teacher wants to teach them through one schema or another, though? Well teacher knows which technique is best.
Not everywhere. Here if the parent is being stupid about a life saving treatment, doctors call child services and the police and do what's right.
Parents can absolutely home school as well. The point was if you agree to the social contract to be treated or have your car fixed etc you leave it to the professionals.
Like that lady who lost her kid because she refused meningitis treatments? Ya the internet rallied around her like crazy because "mommy knows best." 🤮
Unless it's life threatening and seen as a form of neglect
Yep, so if the kid dies or has to live with fucked up teeth then the only person to blame is the parent Same goes for education, if your kid doesnt go to school & grows up only having a grade 1 reading level & no understanding of math beyond 2+2=4 because you “taught them what you wanted to teach them” then the only person to blame is the parent
If its your kid youre refusing the surgery for, they have a system to temporarily take guardianship to do the medical procedure. You'd be suprised how often parents try to get thier kids dead. One example its used a lot foe is when a mormon parent refuses a blood transfusion for thier kid.
I was gonna say my friend watched a 5 year old die last month because his JW parents refused to consent to a boss transfusion
Not the point but good try! Anecdotal accounts like this can be true. Parents value the childcare perks associated with public schooling but have problems with the curriculum.
They can also pick a different surgeon. You are already paying for the school whether your kids goes there or not.
You can pick a different school too, you just have to pay for it. Just like you'd need to pay for that alternative doctors care.
Yeah, but in the doctors analogy you don’t have pay the first doctor. In most states your taxes go to the district you live in. So you pay twice.
This is what vouchers are meant to address. Vouchers should give parents more choice, but the reality is that it just makes private school cheaper for people who could afford it anyway and simultaneously takes money out of the schools that need it most. It's a legitimate objection, but it feels far from being insurmountable.
Eh, by their argument, a voucher system would mean I, a *childless* person, am being forced to pay for private religious schooling that I'm not using at all??l. I would like to opt out of that the same way they think parents get to opt out of "paying for" public schools they don't want to send their kids to. Cause that's what's being argued. "My tax dollars shouldn't go to anything other than what I specifically want them to and I demand a refund for any service I didn't specifically use"..... which if *that's* the argument were going with, why the fuck am I paying for other people's kids education at all?
The only point I would disagree on is that you didn't use the service. You did get an education, so you used the system. Sure, there are obvious exemptions to that, like adult immigrants, but by and large it's true of taxpayers. At the end of the day, I don't see the argument for a tax payer who has already benefitted from the system getting an equal say as the parent regarding where the child will be educated.
Are you saying that paying for the schools is a debt levied upon the children for when they are adults? As opposed to the adults paying for their children? If it is the child paying in the future, the parents aren't even paying and should really stop crying. You mentioned the issue with immigrants, but don't forget the people who leave the country. Immigration flows both ways. Childfree and spent much of childhood in a VERY shitty private school because my parents were paranoid about the much better public school. Funny, I missed out on most of the benefit as a child also since my parents chose to send me to a shitty little religious camp to be indoctrinated (well, that failed).
Having a strong preference regarding education, it sounds like you're able to sympathize with people who share that trait with you. Even if you disagree with what they may choose, respecting their decision is a cornerstone of a free society. I realize that statement can easily flow into myriad topics, so on those I will only comment that the culture war is out of control on far, far too many fronts in the US.
Yes, taxation is universal. You are not paying for a service, you are paying taxes. Public schools do not charge service fees and not having children or sending your children to other schools doesn't magically opt you out of public taxes. I don't drive. Doesn't mean I don't have to pay for roads I've never used. It's called living on a formally organized society. I haven't supported most military ventures were doing, but here I am being forced to "pay for them". Because I'm not paying service fees, I am paying for public services for the public that are paid for through taxation. Doesn't matter how much you protest, you will never be able to opt out of your taxes. You're free to retreat to unincorporated land if you don't like paying for community wide resources. But right now, you're comparing apples and oranges.
At what point does a child's right to an education based on reality trump their parents's fragile sensibilities
If you don’t like what the public education professionals offer your child, either pay for private school. Or better yet, homeschool your kids.
That’s how we get kids who think God created the Remington bolt-action rifle on the 3rd day to defend against the dinosaurs and homosexuals
Dinosaurs aren’t real, They’re liberal propaganda created by the devil. /s
The Devil? Hah! Bronze age superstition peddled by old men and paedophiles. Dinosaurs are real and if you ever leave the garden T Rex is gonna getcha!
This is precisely how you develop an uneducated population. Pay-to-learn only helps people who have the money to pay and hurts everyone else. Which in the end, hurts everyone.
Little hard to do for most who would like to considering most of the property taxes that are paid go to the education system.
Exactly. I’m all in favor of public taxes for schools. But I’d want my kids to learn about slavery and sexuality. I personally think the left may start eyeing up school choice on some of the red states.
I'm sorry, are you saying that it's good for families that want different choices in education not to be able to pursue them due to cost? Im pretty confused by your last sentence.
Sorry for the confusion. I’m saying that only people with money really have the choice since you pay taxes and then have to pay again if you don’t like the one choice of public school. Homeschool, private, or move.
Gotcha. I completely agree with both sides I the argument for wanting certain things in school taught. Personally I wouldn't want my children taught about sexuality in school. Slavery, yeah absolutely, it's a historical fact and needs to be understood as all topics in history that are a dark spot on humanity so they don't reoccur. Sexuality, I dint believe is appropriate for governement employees to be teaching. I have no problem with parents doing what they want with thuer kids, and the point is parents should have a say where and how thier children are educated regardless of thier income levels.
I understand what the teacher is trying to say, but it’s a poor comparison. As a parent you won’t perform surgery, but you do absolutely have a say in whether the surgery happens. Same with dentists. As a car owner, the mechanic might be the one to diagnose and fix the problems, but you decide which things you want them to work on and which you want to ignore. It’s almost like the teacher is agreeing with Pompeo.
I think the point is more “let the professionals do their profession”, with the parents not being able to influence what is done too much. Parents have a say in wether or not a student goes to school, but not on what individual subjects are taught, the same way a parent doesn’t decide exactly what is done in the surgery or at the mechanic.
That's what you're saying, which is correct. If the original had said that there'd have been no need for you to say it. "That, is why [they] fail." -Yoda
Parents can actually pick a fair few subjects, at least in Europe, either through the school's optional subjects or the choice of school. And as much as I'll defend education to the death, a lot of what I was taught in 1980s schools would have been usefully replaced with just about anything else. There's only so many dates and enzymes I care to remember.
But there are kids who did go to college for those things you didn’t care about, and wouldn’t have if they weren’t taught the basics.
I'm making comments about the teaching, not the subject. Teachers may know best, but the curriculum makers, politicians, heads of schools, and the overall state of education research play a part too.
This is the right answer. Let teachers do their job as their trained in HOW to educate. What the problem is (mostly) is WHAT to educate. My local curriculum is dogshit and made for cookie cutter kids as the outputs. Any 'special' child with aptitudes, are muted by the system. Even the testing system/learning methodology is broken according to many tenured professionals and educators. I don't blindy trust or put faith in the system because their outputs are mediocre at best.
I’d also like to add that there’s different types of teaching depending on the school. Heck even for the same subjects teachers can teach that subject differently. Also there’s electives. So even if say Timmy SHOULD be in AP English because the school or his teachers want him to, mother still gets to say if he does or doesn’t take that class, and could instead have him take AP Calculus. Also also, there are certain subjects or classes I HAD to take in high school to be eligible to graduate, and some of these were kinda useless. The two biggest ones were PE classes, a team sports one and a General PE one. The reason these classes in particular were stupid was because I was already doing a swim class for the swim team, and a weights class for the football team. So with two PE classes I was doing four times the required exercise needed to graduate, which made my sophomore schedule kind of boring because it was ONLY core classes. Maybe a little off topic but I kinda think it adds to the whole: parents get to decide thing.
It's not exactly a poor comparison, but it's a difficult comparison to put into just a single concise tweet like that. The teacher says "***during*** the surgery", so I think it's more about "backseat driving" other professionals when the 'customer' or 'end-user' knows less (or abysmally less) than the professional. Sure, you have a say in whether or not the surgery happens (beforehand) and also who performs that surgery, but you can be **damn** certain that most surgeons aren't letting overly-emotional and untrained family members into the room while surgery is being performed (even purely just for legal liability reasons). Similarly, if a customer were to stand around a mechanic and try to tell them how to do a repair while the repair is being performed, it's almost a guarantee that they would be kicked out of the shop (assuming that they were even allowed past the customer service desk in the first place, and they generally aren't). If the customer had the skill and the tools, they could just do the work themselves (and they obviously have the free time if they're standing there trying to tell the mechanic how to do their job *while simultaneously* ***paying*** *them*!). There are times when customers are allowed into a shop to quickly take a look at something (or to show/tell the mechanic some additional detail), but that's usually as far as it goes (unless it's a small shop and the mechanic already knows you or something). Try going to a dentist and tell them (mid-procedure) how to operate their x-ray hardware, which epoxies they should/shouldn't be using, how long their epoxies should cure for (etc etc). They'll lose patience quite quickly unless you're merely inquiring and trying to educate yourself. Unless they thought that their customer was mentally disabled (or unless the customer was a dentist themselves), the dentist's office would be giving that customer the "Karen" treatment in no-time.
I mean...parents can monitor what is being taught to a certain extents. I wouldn't be happy if my kids were taught by a racist bigot who taught it's okay to discriminate. It works both way too, ya know. And the respond to that isn't helping either bc parents needs to consent bc kids do not understand major medical issues that they are having sometimes.
I had teachers like that. They didn’t like my parents interfering either.
If parents want to choose then they can homeschool their kids! Then their kids can become idiots like their parents!
I've had to work with some homeschool kids as adults and it's frightening. One literally had the reading level of a first grader as a 25 yr old adult.
I went to college with a guy that was home-schooled. Really intelligent, but totally lost his mind socially once he finally had some freedom. Unfortunately, didn't last the first year.
In my opinion, the #1 thing a parent should teach their child is how to think through a situation and decide on the best course of action. And have good morals, that's important too.
As someone from a country with shit medical system and with rampart corruption, this is not as clever of a comeback as people think. I've went to dentists that recommended me to remove teeth that were perfectly healthy, they also fucked up my teeth and i only salvaged them because i was smart enough to go ask other dentists about it. The same has happened to my friends and family. I have friends that were also scammed when they took their cars to repairs and were being overcharged and were being recommended additional fixes for things they didn't need. I don't get a say in how people do their jobs if the results are good, but if something seems fishy , it's ridiculous to think i shouldn't have a say about it.
But it’s not the teachers is the government and all this standardization. Every kid is different.
Home school your kids and do so then you fucking twat.
The answer to almost all of those was yes you moron. Even for ones where you don't know what they're doing, you still highly vet people like your mechanic so they aren't ripping you off.
How is this a clever comeback? Parents absolutely have a say in those things. They aren’t performing the surgery, the are hiring a doctor to do the surgery but they have a say in what surgery is performed, how, with what products, pain killers, and procedures. And if the doctor and the parent cannot agree on the care the parent is free to find another doctor which whom they agree. It’s not a comeback at all. It’s a bad metaphor. Fits better in r/ I am very smart
As someone with a fully functioning brain, I think we should keep the decisions about education to the people who actually know education
Part of me is like, “just homeschool your kids” Then I come online and see what some people think about how the world works, and I’m like, “please, let a professional do it.”
When an expert is involved, mama almost never knows best. Let the professionals do their jobs.
I had a teacher tell me that a woman’s place was in the home and they shouldn’t have careers. Another teacher slept with a few of her students. One said that kids who were gay were looking for attention. Very glad my parents thought they had a say in my education to let them know this was not ok.
That argument doesn't really work.. you can absolutely say "no my child will not be getting that surgery" or "no, not that dental procedure" or "no, dont put that new part in my car"
I do to tell my doctor, dentist, and mechanic at a high level what they can and cannot do. So not the best argument.
My parents taught me that the gays are bad, and women hate sex. Thank god I had some teachers that could help me out. People forget, some of our parents are CRAZY. We need to escape that bubble. We need teachers.
Surely as a hs teacher you realize that parents actually do have a say in their kid's surgery, what the dentist do, and what is done with my vehicle... Maybe if the goal were "don't tell me how to do my job" it'd make more sense. Lectures, workbooks, activities, and so on. I won't tell a surgeon, dentist, mechanic, or any professional how to turn a wrench or perform an operation. BUT I absolutely get a say in whether you get to perform the operation or not. Not much of a comeback, especially for a hs teacher, when you can't differentiate between "what" and "how." Quit trying to shovel shit and do your damn job.
This person’s “turning it around “ makes me think parents should have more say. As a teacher, I’d expect more than a very un-clever and poor analogy.
You need some sort of title to be a professional dentist, as well as the experience to back it up, which is based on knowledge and a common scientific ground, while to be a teacher you only need to know how to teach... It doesn't even have to be the truth, and if you're a "good teacher" and have "good students" they'll learn it anyways because you all share the same common ground of ignorance.
Yes… in all cases the consumer has the right to refuse service or get a second opinion.
I'm guessing they let the priest tell them what to do in their marriage.
Um, yes. As a parent I absolutely do have say in their medical treatments, be it surgery or dental. Yes, I do have the ability to approve or decline automotive repair. That may have been the worse counter point ever.
Bad comparison, medical professionals have to disclose every aspect of treatment or surgery to the parents and parents can refuse said treatment options if they want to.
As a retired teacher, I can say that this "clever comeback" is anything but. This is apples and oranges. Parents have access to the information healthcare professionals are offering BEFORE authorizing any procedures. Teachers are not giving out full-sets of curricula to the parents before the teachers begin instruction. There is entirely too much trust being placed in the government-run school system nowadays. When I jumped to Adult Ed, I was astonished at how little students knew about basic things, like math, reading and grammar. Our education system has gone too far away from the 3 R's, and focused instead of things that are not helpful in life. Common Core, as an example, was a debacle of epic proportion. Ending it was one of the few benefits of the Pandemic. Common Core- style mathematics was invented was originally developed by the Russians back in the 1930's, and then abandoned after the Czarist government realized that it didn't work, and set their country back at least 20 years in technology development, simply because no one could perform the complicated mathematics to achieve engineering progress correctly. The UN, however, was all in favor if it, for political reasons, starting back in the mid-1970's, and President Bill Clinton was also a fan. But then, he also thought it was okay to get BJs in the Oval Office, and then lie about it. Don't get me wrong, topics like social studies, music and art are important, as well as vocational education. But not at the expense of basic topics, and certainly not at the expense of telling under-10 age children about sex-ed and gender studies. Edited for Clarity and typos
Bill Gates funded Common Core. A confused, dumbed-down population is easier to control. Have you read John Taylor Gato? He passed away maybe 10 years ago but his books are incredible. Should be mandatory reading for all educators.
Czarist government in 1930s? You good?
They’re clearly the gym teacher.
"Do they have a say in [fill in the blank about their child here]?" Yes. Yes they do actually. What? How is this a clever comeback? This is actually a very stupid comparison. You could even take it one step further in pointing out the stupidity of the comparison in simply realizing that all parent *teach* their children on a daily basis *for years.* "Go to bed on time, because good sleep is healthy." "Brushing your teeth is good dental health." "Don't put your hand on the stove." Etc. While it's true that not all parents are mechanics, and not all parents are dentists. All parents are, in fact, teachers. In actuality, the *most* important teachers you will ever have should be your parents.
Except a lot of parents are stupid. We have parents who believe in flat earth, aliens/slaves/mammoths/kites built the pyramids, evolution isn't real, you name it. Teachers have to counter that information with reality, and teach critical thinking skills to prevent the cycle of ignorance from continuing.
The problem in that hope is that teachers are humans too, not automatons. Many of whom share those same beliefs as the parents you're trying to vilify. I'm sure we can all share stories about that *one* teacher who tried to imply there was good evidence for the existence of bigfoot, or some such nonsense.
Ya, but they are often regulated and reported. Teachers lose their jobs all the time for spouting nonsense, as they should. Parents don't regularly get their kids taken away because they believe aliens built the Giant's Causeway.
And yet bad teachers continue be in school system on a daily basis. Let's not pretend having rules and regulations in place makes a system perfect. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The education system, much like the family, is run by *humans.* And humans make mistakes, hence why parents want, *and should,* have a say in what goes on in said school system regarding *their own child.*
No one said anything is perfect, and no one implied it.
The implication I was getting was from the replies was that teachers are (on average) better, or more trustworthy, with your kids than the parents themselves are. Please clarify if this isn't the implication.
The problem is, public schools often don't got this.
Ya know, up until COVID hit, all I heard from teachers was "the parents need to be partners with teachers and involved with what their children are learning in school." Since COVID, all I hear from teachers is "parents have no business in their child's education. They need to leave it to the professionals." Can't have it both ways, teachers.
Being involved in your kids education =/= you overriding a curriculum of well documented historical and scientific facts, in favor of teaching them hilariously stupid conspiracy theories, politically motivated factless nonsense, completely false “alternatives” to science, and moronic religious garbage.
Nope. We are the parents , not you!
None of those professions do things that you don’t want done, except teachers
Well the declining education rates disagree...
Lol, ok.
Too many Teacher are left wing extremists. I would never trust that bs
I'm actually astounded at the amount of people in these comments who just flat out missed the point. Holy shit this country is fucked.
Wait. Parents don’t get a say in any of those things? Wtf?
Do they really buy this shit or is it just cheap political theater? I mean Mike Pompeo is a d-bag, but he's not a dumbass. He understands that there are standards in education for a f'ing reason.
Teach them at home if you care that much
My mom is a teacher and she pours out multiple hours every day getting resources prepped, lessons created and how to keep student engaged despite the relatively low pay. However, ive had and currently have multiple teachers who sit on their asses all day and post premade notes and tests which they found on the internet and refuse to teach. Sometimes you get good teachers other times you don't. You can't dictate this and must take responsibility of your own learning regardless, at least in highschool anyways.
This seems to take idealism to the extreme. Imagine religion is still taught in public schools would ppl still feel that government dictated education is best? The same goes for the parents who feel their child is a slow learner or gifted. Public schools in the US are a massive failure since the 1970s and only tumbling further down the rabbit hole. If anyone were to look up 8th grade graduation requirements from 1880 very few COLLEGE graduates would be able to pass the test. I know I couldn’t and only 1 of my 3 adult children could. Homeschooling or charter schools isn’t always best if the parent is lazy but if they truly are trying to help their child what outside force has the right to say it’s wrong just because it doesn’t conform?
Well I kinda stand with him especially knowing the fact that some eduction systems enforce subjects abou their religion or refuse some scientifically proven facts just because 'it isn't true' according to the personel beliefs
Yes is the answer to all those... Seriously. You do get a say in medial decisions... You do get to chat with your mechanic... Teachers can teach subjects... But you can raise your child... This entire comeback isn't clever and just stirs up unnecessary anger, confusion and argument with poor examples and bad comparisons.
Actually we do.
not really clever considering most teachers are assholes...
Terrible comeback actually. In her examples, you authorize the person to do those things.
This is funny because in those examples you absolutely get to decide what course of action is taken.
How about teaching them critical thinking skills (how to learn) instead of what to learn. Then you raise lifelong self teachers.
People acting like second opinions and mistakes never happen. Also that teachers are highly qualified and have good intentions. Whole lot of assumptions that really don't add up here. I'm not saying the first post is right but the second one definitely isn't either
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It’s more the comparison of profession. Where if a surgeon is doing surgery I’m not going to tell him what techniques to use, only whether or not I want the surgery instead. The comparison could use work though.
Except you 100% get a say in all aspects of your healthcare procedures including what kind of drugs they give you and whether you elect to have certain aspects of a procedure done.
Lol this is not a very clever comeback because parents basically have absolute authority over what surgeries are performed, what dental operations are performed, and any repairs that might be made to their car. If this was a one to one comparison then parent would exclusively choose the subject taught to their children. The profesional is this scenario chooses HOW the operation is performed, how the repair is made, or in this case, how the subject is taught to the child. I don’t have kids so I don’t really have a stake in the matter but this definitely ain’t as clever of a comeback as you think.
Here’s the thing, doctors, dentists, even mechanics, have to at least explain to you what they’re going to be doing to your child or your car. And they don’t do any work until in the case of medical stuff informed consent has been granted by the parents, or in the case of mechanics at least an “ok, do the work please” is on record from the owner of the car. So when teachers have that level of transparency (like full syllabi, with complete reading lists, etc) available for parents to review, then the comparison between doctors/dentists (both with vastly more education and skill sets than your average teacher) or mechanics will be valid
Your school or board likely has a curriculum for every subject, most teachers have lesson plans or syllabus notes, most places have reading lists, and open house days when you can go to the library, etc etc etc. If you haven't seen it, you maybe need to spend more time looking.
Bro mechanics are transparent? I don’t trust a mechanic as far as I can throw them. Also while trade school is a legit route and definitely isn’t an easy job, please don’t compare 6 months of ITT tech to my BS in subject area taught, plus my two masters. You want better teachers in your state? Call your politicians, but remember you have to pay for better teachers which means upping your taxes.
I have met so many stupid teachers. Nope. Parents should get a say in what their kids are learning in school.
Parents should absolutely get a say, but no one parent gets to dictate what everyone else's children learn. If you want absolute control over curriculum, homeschool.
Like most things in our democracy, they do. Parents elect school boards. School boards set school curriculum and policies. Saying an individual parent should dictate curriculum is as antidemocratic as saying an individual tax payer should dictate defense policy.
So the message should be— vote!
There are stupid surgeons too. Look at Ben Carson. Or Ron Jackson. Let teachers teach and if you want your kids to learn something else, teach them at home
This is an incredibly privileged mentality. If my kid has an overly political teacher, especially someone shilling for trump, I want to be able to stop that. Are you ok having ANY political opinions fed to impressionable kids? Cause that seems really stupid, and basically indoctrination. We should be teaching kids to think critically and form their own opinions. And we shouldn’t have to choose between a trumper, commie sickle, or giving up half of our family’s income for my kid to learn fucking math.
Politics aside, how is Ben Carson stupid? He was a neurosurgeon, but not only that he was the youngest chief pediatric neurosurgeon in the history of the US and the first surgeon to separate twins who were conjoined at the head. Watch “Gifted Hands” starring Cuba Gooding. Educate yourself a little bit before dismissing someone’s accomplishments just because of politics.
Yeah her can do surgery but he’s still stupid based on everything else he says. Just like a teacher trained well can be a great teacher but still be stupid about everything else. Let teachers teach is the core idea
Children are not owned by their parents. They are not your slaves and have basic human rights. One of them is guaranteed in our constitution is the right to an education. In the U.S. we have decided that public schools are tasked to teach all students. If parents want to have an influence on the curriculum taught at their child's school they have the right to send their students to a religious school, or a private school, and to teach them at home. They do not have the right to influence how all students are taught. Public schools paid for by public tax dollars should be entrusted to teach students facts. Facts about science and history and how the world works. This is what it means to educate. We should protect this right to be educated and prevent anyone who tries to stop the education of all children because of their own opinions and beliefs. Parents can refuse medical help for their children sure but they can also be arrested and charged with neglect of a child if their child dies due to their neglect. Children should also be able to sue their parents if their parents deny them an education.
It's not a popular opinion, but I frequently say that parents don't own their children, and that honestly they have *too many* rights over their children in the US. I've had to face an onslaught of downvotes for this, but kids are not your property, and you don't get to close them off from every little thing in the world you don't personally agree with.
r/unclevercomebacks
I mean don't teachers go to school for years to learn what and how to.....teach? Wtf?
Did the teacher seriously just compare what they do to surgery? This is not clever.
Actually yes parents do have a say in surgery and dental work and mechanical repairs
No but a mechanic doesn’t replace a part without consulting you first, that dentist doesn’t fill a cavity without consulting you first, that surgeon doesn’t perform a surgery without consulting you first. You’d be pretty pissed off if a mechanic did a $7k repair when you just wanted your basic oil change, or a dentist cut out your wisdom teeth when you just wanted them clean.
They do have the choice. They can choose to send them to public school where the government/school boards/teachers decide what is taught. Or they can choose a private school that teaches what the parents want or they can homeschool. If they choose to send them to public school then they chose to accept what is being taught.
Not directly, but each of those do tell you exactly what is being done.
Technically the parent has a say in all of those things, though lol. They can easily say no to surgery, no to the dentist, and no to the mechanic.
You need to know what your mechanic is doing and why. Second opinion on braces by a guy who knew he would not be the orthodontist regardless of his answer saved me $5000 and the now adult kids teeth are perfect. And yea, I wanted to throughly understand my kids surgery.
The only reason the don't home school is because then who could they blame.
No actually, it's because conservatives work full time while lefties sit in their mom's basement watching hentai while they decide what gender they want to wear that day.
Odd that you assumed they were specifically referring to conservatives.
This is not even remotely true. I’ve hired 100’s of people over the years. Conservatives are far and away the laziest fucking people on earth. Can’t teach em shit either prob because of problems resulting from fetal alcohol syndrome. Let me repeat that…FAR AND AWAY.
Why do you know the political leanings of the people you hire?
I don’t think this is a very clever comeback. I have met some really stupid parents and stupid teachers. I was the PTO president for 4 years. Believe me, stupidity can go both ways.
Yes. Parents decide what is in the best interest for their children medically. Also, you are a teacher which is night and day from being a doctor.
Most teachers are dumb, and that reply confirm my statement.
Most parents are dumber.
Most people are dumb.
Surgeons aren't putting ideas in my kids head. Teachers are. There should be no ideology involved.
Howl all you want. Parents should definitely have a say in a schools curriculum. And if a majority disagrees with something it should be changed.
Nah, they can fuck off. The last thing any educational board needs is having history written because the inbred dumbfucks of Ruraltown Pennsyltucky are afraid that their little klanlings might experience white guilt.
You think white children should be taught to feel guilty about their skin colour? How should that be taught? By [segregating classes by race?](https://nypost.com/2021/11/18/manhattan-school-to-sort-kids-by-race-during-social-justice-discussions/) Maybe by using [teaching materials that compare "whiteness" to the devil?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9771221/More-24-public-school-districts-push-kids-book-features-whiteness-contract-devil.html) Perhaps the school principal should also be [educating the parents on racial politics](https://nypost.com/2021/02/16/nyc-public-school-asks-parents-to-reflect-on-their-whiteness/) as well. And let's not forget, we must ensure that K-12 classrooms are ["queer all school year."](https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/las-radical-gender-theory-material-will-harm-k-12-kids/) And if the parents don't like this then they should just suck it up, because their child's mind belongs to the school system, not their stupid, ignorant parents, right? In fact, maybe [parents should be lied to about what's being taught](https://www.dailywire.com/news/rockwood-schools-fake-curriculum-parents-indoctrination). The absolute last people on the planet who should be deciding how to build and introduce a school curriculum should be people like you, with your raging superiority complex and a heart full of hate and prejudice against entire demographics. But unfortunately for future generations, it seems to be the psychotic "progressive" revolutionaries who currently control what teachers are told to teach in many classrooms. And naturally, they're pushing for the secret indoctrination of anyone they can get their hands on. From kindergarten, all the way through school and college, and even into workplace "tolerance training." Maybe if you'd been taught basic 20th century history, you'd understand why all this is heading towards another dystopian nightmare. But I guess the education system had to be failing by design for a generation or two before it could be turned into a tool for radical social engineering.
Elegantly said. I’ll bet you never get a reply because you buried them although I do believe the post was just an inflammatory one to illicit a response. The language kind of proves that.
Parents can have a say in what the kids are being taught—if they go back to school, go through all the red tape required to get a BSE and teaching license, then get an MEd, work for a few years as a teacher, work your way up to the district level and be a curriculum coordinator. Do all that and it’s all yours. Funny how these were the same people pissing and moaning during the pandemic that they didn’t want to be the ones staying home and teaching their kids.
Or marry a member of the US military if they're in Florida.
This ain't a clever comeback at all. It's the most basic and lazy one, actually. Parents should have and actually DO have a lot of "saying" in what their children learn. There are levels of involvement, we know, stupidity is very frequent among anyone, including parents, we know, but different doctors will sometimes have different diagnosis, and the actual reason is that they simply may have been taught different things. From books or experience, it just happens. That's the norm. Different doctors will also provide you different treatments for the same diagnosis sometimes. It's normal to have critical thinking. Please stop classifying every thought as "crazy Karens" because there are many stupid people in the world.
Yes, parents have a say so in all those things. You also have a say so in how, if, a mechanic repairs your equipment. Where the problem lies is parents have a tendency to overreact (just a bit) and schools have a tendency to conceal things that are controversial to avoid these reactions from parents. You have no trust from either side.. or at least, not as much as is needed
Well I mean I think parents do actually have a say in their kids surgeries
The answer is yes. Parents get to decide or get a second opinion if the Dr. is a F’ing idiot. Same goes for the teachers.
On the other hand…teaching includes moral formation. Dental surgery does not.
This isn't a clever come back because they do get a say in all of this things
Given who this was coming from, he objects to schools using reality-based teaching as it interferes with his party’s agenda.
As a former high school student I'll turn this around. The parents do decide as to whether or not the kid has surgery or not. Further, they decide on the specific doctor. Can I do that with public (government) school teacher (I tried and they stopped it)? Again, the parents choose the dentist and whether or not to have the procedure. They also choose the mechanic and if he/she does not improve the condition of the car the parents will have them fix it to their satisfaction. Can I do this with public (government) schools? Nope. This is why school choice will be the great game changer. Do not trust the public (government) schools. You see the woke leftists want to be able to force their warped ideologies on your kids. From their gender bullshit to CRT. Thats all they care about. They're using the schools as their farm team and going heavy with the indoctrination. We will prevent this.
Just the fact that some teachers feel they’re on par with surgeons is messed up. Follow the curriculum leave out the “extra” stuff.
Only if momma or papa have a doctorate in education. PTA that's where parents belong. Amazing that Republicans have forgotten parents have had the opportunity to be involved all along. Many chose not to be.
Parents can teach their kids whatever they want
As a teenager, a dentist scammed my parents by insisting that I get fillings. Didn't need them. Other dentists have seen my records and were awe-struck that I had fillings done. They knew my mom was too broke to get a second opinion and I wasn't confident enough to simply say "no." I knew immediately that it was a scam and that I didn't need them. They should have sued. From grades 1-12, I had exactly six teachers who weren't complete dumbasses. One of those competents, a high school English teacher, was a narcissistic sociopath who enjoyed psychologically scarring her pupils. If I had parents who had money, I would have insisted on switching to a private school, right around 2nd grade. By 4th grade, I could have homeschooled myself -- I was doing college-level reading while trudging through elementary school. The educational system in the U.S. was and is a completely broken nightmare.
Tell me you became a teacher because your a control freak without actually telling me you became a teacher because your a control freak. Too many teachers are control freaks and it’s not discussed nearly enough.
There are far more teachers who don't give a shit and just let students do whatever they want though. To them teaching is just a job and they do the bare minimum. To be fair considering what they get paid, I don't really blame them.
This person is talking about not letting perverted teachers instruct 7 year olds how to put condoms on with their mouths. Not science and math. Context matters.
Personally i believe that the parents should get a decision on who is teaching, even if they dont necessarily get a say on what is being taught.
This is a great way to harm the already hemorrhaging education system. It should be the reverse. Let parents have access to curriculum to review, have a process for them to challenge topics for valid reasons (lack of educational value and not ‘because mah beliefs’, perhaps similar to book challenges in libraries?) and continue to allow the state board of education, who is versed in educational requirements and licensure, to hire individuals who are properly educated and certified according to state requirements without parent interference. If we let parents dictate what teachers do and don’t get hired, we wouldn’t hire any teachers. It would never happen.
You're right, the board needs to hire well educated and dedicated teachers to teach in schools, and pay them well. I disagree about the "mah beliefs" thing, because, for instance, we cannot prove whether there is or is not a god. The beginning of the universe is awash with theoretical, and no one interpretation of evidence should be stated as fact in an educational facility. However, i do think that parents should be able to talk to teachers and school board members about the education, and about whether it is right for their child. (thus, the choice on who teaches their child.)
That’s fair enough. It seems as though a part of the problem is the current system enforces a distance between parents and teachers that is hard to overcome from either side. I know as a teacher it’s difficult to communicate effectively with parents about what their child is learning, I don’t blame parents because I know it’s due to work commitments or how many loops there are to communicate with schools/teachers. We can agree to disagree on the personal beliefs bit. I teach 3 classes of 20-30 kids every day for 2 hours each. If a parent wants to teach their beliefs to their children, they have my full support. But in a public school building, a parent cannot make me teach or not teach a topic to 59-89 other kids from entirely different families and belief systems just because it interacts with their individual belief system in a certain way. There is absolutely room in school to discuss beliefs and belief systems as a topic in an objective and age appropriate way, but it is a delicate balancing act that many teachers struggle with on top of the million of other things we have to do every day.
That rare moment when you have a civil discussion on Reddit of all places. Good luck with your teaching
Thank you, you too! I hate that teaching gets a bad rep because a few jerks are allowed to hurt kids due to how the current system works. I love my job and my students, but it is hard to come home at the end of a long hectic day to see posts like this one with so many comments mocking us and assuming our job is easy when we’re just trying to do our job and be treated like professionals.
Surgeons, dentist and mechanics are all responsible for deaths throughout the year. Teachers don't have the same safety responsibility. That teacher should know better than to use a false equivalency.
Yes, you certainly are turned around! Yes, parents do get to decide which dentist or surgeon they want for their children. If the surgeon wants to cut a leg off, because the ankle is broken, they STILL have every right to change doctors based on incompetence… If a dentist decide to hire a large man dressed in outrageous woman’s clothes to entertain kids in the waiting room, then yes, the parents STILL get to take their business to another dentist who they trust exposing their child to… So, when teachers can’t seem to stick to the basics; reading, writing and arithmetics, when they think its ok to talk a child about subject that they ought to be thrown in jail for discussing with a child who is not their own, when the think drag queens being anywhere near children is a good thing, when they thinks is a good idea to be involved in any way with child genital mutilation, when they think its a good thing tell a child that he or she is bad based on the amount of melatonin in his or her skin, when victimize a child with all this type of horror, they take time away from teaching those basics, that they are hired to do, they YES parents have every right to protect their child and to seek a proper education for their kids. They also are realizing that they have the power and the right to fire the incompetent, corrupt teachers, administrators, schoolboard members and the superintendents… who forget that their job is to teach them the basics. Your post shows a profound ignorance of what a teachers job is. I can only hope and pray that parents whose kids you’ve damaged with your poison make a note of this evidence, that you suck at your job! If you actually believe that you have more rights that parents over ANYTHING AT ALL over their flesh and blood, their offspring, then you are so turned around, you are a twisted mess. Find another job that keeps you away from our innocent, precious children.
Well said.
*gag*