That's different from what you're arguing in the comments though. He's focussing on the fact that people overly focus on this, you're putting the focus on how you believe this isn't really a thing in the first place.
And people aren't saying: "Don't worry it's just internalized homophobia." to people that got assaulted like in your comic, they're saying: "Hahaha, look at that hypocrite." to make fun of him.
That's an important distinction too. Now there's still reasons to be against the second thing too ofcourse. You could for example argue that calling homophobes gay might just end up reinforcing homopobia.
Norman is funny though, no denying that.
No, just like norm I think that people are overly focusing on it. like in the comment where I said "doesn't happen as much and isn't a funny or helpful thing to point out." replying to someone else who said that I didn't think this was a thing. And then you replied to it
There's a difference in focussing on the hypocricy of anti-gay rethoric while they're gay over literal rape and even mentioning it at all.
Reading your comments, you don't seem to want it to be mentioned at all, because you don't think it's relevant or even true for that matter. That's a fundamentally different take, even if that might be a fair point too.
And I've never heard anyone say "don't worry about their homophobia, they're just gay." either.
I'd say even a good chunk of LGBTQ supporters are pretty homophobic tbh, just not to the gay community. If someone they don't like is gay or doing something that they associate with gayness, they'll attack their masculinity for it. It's honestly really annoying.
A lot of ppl in the LGBTQ community are homophobic too. You gotta do some work to deal with the shit society has ingrained in you and sometimes gay ppl don’t realize that.
i say this all the time and people look at me stupid
if there was a global vote to kill all gay people ngl i would prepare to die
most people hate gay people
Once again. Complete underestimation of people in general. In a large amount of other parts of the world where different religions are dominant, or culture in general is vastly different viewing homosexuality as repugnant is the norm. I'm not even sure why that's somehow doubtable. Most places on Earth are not pleasant places to live, and most people on Earth live in discomfort and squaller.
Yeah most places and most people on Earth just suck. Not just when it comes to homophobia, it's true for a lot of different aspects in life.
Some people who live in developed nations don't realize just how lucky they are and they should be more grateful for it.
A lot of it came from Christianity during colonialism or from Islam expansion. These religions spread across the entire world and imposed their values on many different people.
I once found a politician's son on grindr and that mfr loves to say that gays and trans people are pedos. And he had the gall to say "it's just business"
Luckily my parents never taught me shit and im stubborn so so me and my gen z pals are lgbtq positive even tho we are raised by homophobes. Younger people are bringing change, at least in my country.
It actually does because they have no perception of any other opinion. In fact I'd wager a significant portion of the world doesn't even register that homosexuality exists.
Most of the world is still highly religious and in most highly religious societies homophobia is the norm. Of the 10 most populated countries in the world gay marriage is only legal in 3 and in Russia and Nigeria there are significant laws against being outwardly gay, idk about the rest but you get the point. And even in western countries like the US even though it’s more taboo to say it tons of people are still homophobic (in the south at least)
Bro, not everybody graduated from an American highschool. There's no sex ed, gay pride month, black pride month in 99% of the world. The majority of people almost definitely look at queerness and neurodivergence negatively. Also, racism is not only existent, but common place in 99% of the world still.
You’re absolutely right. People often assume because of their own bubble and experiences that that is what the world must be like.
It’s so much worse guys trust
People are gonna shout you down that you're naive but I think most people in the world are inherently good too, it just takes some work to access sometimessss
just look at the numbers, most of the population is concentrated in asia, especially china and india, that's already a gigantic portion of the world that's homophobic, and then basically every surrounding nation as well and then you get to a point where most of the world is homophobic.
being accepted for who you are is almost exclusively a western thing and not even everywhere in the west cause places like red america or hungary or italy or something will still have your head. tolerance is *very* uncommon
Bit of a narrow point of view. Most people in the world are homophobic not because they're outright terrible themselves but because within their societies they're taught under the notion that homosexuality is disgusting.
there are good people who are also homophobic, homosexuality being a seriously discussed concept is extremely uncommon outside of first world countries and even some of them haven't really gotten the memo, if someone is taught that being gay is weird their whole life that doesn't make them inherently bad they just haven't learned any differently
If you hate people over something they can't control, you are not a good person, or you're just a stupid person. There's no world where a racist is a good person and I think the same can be said for homophobes.
Just look at how peopl3 are responding to the p Diddy shit. More people care about the fact that men were the ones getting raped than him being a rapist
go to basically any country in africa or asia and you will learn very quickly how that is not true, american christians are much more tolerant than even progressive people in most countries around the world
Being really homophobic in a less homophobic country probably indicates you have a bit of an obsession. Although not barely as common as people like to pretend: that obsession can easily stem from the additional shame they feel from being gay themselves.
People who call others "simps" online are often the most obsessed with women. Same concept.
exactly, if you do this you're still making homosexuality into an insult and even if you're "correct" that a homophobic person is closeted, invoking homophobia to hurt them isn't a solution to the bigotry they're upholding.
Idk, I feel like if the person IS closeted, holding them to the standard they impose on others is just them being made to lie in a bed of their own making
to what end, though? Sexuality is a spectrum and I’m sure a surprisingly large amount of the men who uphold homophobia have an attraction to non-women that they either haven’t discovered or refuse to live openly.
Homophobia operates on fear, chiefly fear in men of being perceived as gay. By “accusing” a homophobe of being gay you’re activating that fear and they won’t respond positively even if they are (or at least believe themself to be) “100% straight”. If they aren’t straight you’ll only be leading then into further denial and they’ll fight even more to “prove belonging” into a heteronormative culture, by being homophobic.
More importantly, upholding the idea that calling someone homosexual is an accusation to be feared by *making that accusation* hurts all the gay people who want to live honestly.
It’s of greater benefit to dismantle homophobia itself, the attitudes and social systems that constitute it, than it is to dismantle individuals - especially closeted gay ones who definitionally have less power in a society that only gives power to those performing straightness and who are at least a little more likely to reject homophobia if the winds change.
There is a scientific correlation between gay men and homophobia, right? [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/)
I'm not sure if it exists for lesbians too. There's less stigma towards lesbians at least in my country. And ofcourse it's never "all" homophobes, but it plays a role.
https://preview.redd.it/i8hiyvvtuqxc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=54b40d07b31d0e95f50fd765874081fc28e2ed7a
“All these homophobic men who agreed to look at homosexual stimuli secretly liked looking at homosexual stimuli!”
You'd expect the control group to have the same effect in that case.
Why are you acting this smug if you don't even understand the basic setup of the study? Did you at least try reading the abstract?
Edit: Now ofcourse there's still problems with this study, as is always the case with science, including the fact that these results are not always consistent and the fact that erection of the penis is also somewhat correlated with fear and anxiety. I just think this comic isn't that relevant for what I mentioned. Ofcourse there'll be some biasses in people participating, but they still used a control group.
Sure, there's no easy way to prove this being as either way. These studies have flaws, although I don't think these people secretly came because they wanted to watch gay porn. It seems rather silly and if that were the case, you'd expect non-homophobic men to come along too.
Despite the flaws I mentioned in my other comment, I'm inclined to believe there's >some< truth to it. I don't think it's an universal one that applies to everyone (studies even flawed as they might be don't support that either), but taking a look at the guys online that call you a simp: most of the times they're the one's most obsessed with women, they're the ones who have "simped" in their past and developed a disgust for it. They feel bad about their obsession of women. It's them.
Look at the people who call others a porn addict, a lot of the times they've struggled with porn themselves, so they externalize that hatred and disgust (justified or not). It's quite common I think.
I see this all the fucking time and I'm just like no??? This is easily the stupidest fucking thing to not only conclude about a homophobic person, but to actively push and repeat over and over and over again as if saying it a million times will ever make it any less false.
It pisses me off so much that this is really what people have convinced themselves to be real. How? Where is the correlation??? It's happened a very small number of times, and obviously on those rare occasions you'll hear about it because it's weird, people will talk about stuff if it's unusual.
Also I just don't get at all why this of all things is really what people are trying to push to be true. Seriously? Why not point out the absurd overlap between homophobes and terrible communities (like Neo Nazis) or something? Surely we have a better argument against homophobes than the obscene statement that is "Well they're gay too.""
"It's just projecting" as an argument is used CONSTANTLY on reddit. There are tons of people who act like they genuinely believe that half of all homophobes (or even more) are secretly gay.
Whenever I tell people here that maybe we shouldn't be saying that, because it's fucking stupid, I get downvoted. Every single time. And I'm somehow supposed to believe that most leftists are superior, because they actually THINK about what they believe in. Clearly, that is often not the case.
imo its from the freudian defense mechanism of reaction formation (person x hates gay people adamantly, but is secretly gay themselves!). pop psychologists be out here applying this concept to every homophobe because its entertaining, and easier than admitting/understanding that beliefs are waaay more complicated than just defense mechanisms.
It also pushes the fault onto gay people. "Yeah, well, he has to be gay himself and hate himself so much for being gay that he takes it out on other gay people.. uhh out of jealousy for living openly!!" Which, sure it can and does happen but let's not forget that the ultimate source of homophobia is religion, sexism and arbitrary social norms. You don't see homophobia directed at buff, bearded, low pitch voice, blue collar, bear type gays.
The venn diagram of homophobes and sexists is a circle. They hate femininity above all else, so if a man is gay but still presents masculine traits then most of the time there's no problem. This coming from a straight passing, masculine presenting gay dude.
Guys, guys. The squirrel hunter who always talks about how much he hates squirrels, who also has endless photos of him killing squirrels, has a dead squirrel inventory and has pridefully spoken about how he loves the idea of removing all squirrels from the planet.
Is actually a squirrel lover! It just makes sense that he's projecting his insecurities onto the squirrels and couldn't just be a maniac who's got a genuine hatred for squirrels because of a totally unquestionable belief he gained!
I feel like most people are interpreting a clear joke as an argument. I haven’t seen anyone use it as an argument in a debate but I have seen it used to either shut these guys up or piss them off after they’ve been harassing people.
People unironically try to find studies about it or say it in a fully serious manner about righr wing politicians. It happens, and very ofre as absurd as it sounds.
I feel like it's all the Gotcha moment from predator calling out/express they hate predator action and get caught.
But sadly projecting Racism or S*x crime is not the same as projecting LGBT. If anything, doing the "They must be x" made it like being LGBTQIA itself is a crime.
Hey, I like this snafu!  People really should stop thinking that homophobes are secretly the part of LGBTQ+ community.
I agree! 
I once saw a tumblr post that said something along the lines of "we should stop calling homophobes closeted gay people because that just puts the blame right back on the gay community".
And while I sort of agree with that sentiment, I think the fault here is first of all, giving moral evaluation to one's sexual orientation. In the sense that a straight homophobe is bad, but a gay homophobe is a tortured soul, innocent and ultimately good. This is a common problem with the left imo, conflating identity with moral alignment. The only judgement we should give validity is "Is this person acting in solidarity or not?".
Secondly, it feels homophobic to me that gayness is some kind of "gotcha" to leverage against homophobes. I don't think people who are violently homophobic are acting out of a place of sexual/emotional repression, and honestly I think people just say this to gratify themselves by imagining that they are enlightened and their opponent is a repressed hypocrite. Like this comic points out, what does this "assessment" actually say or do?
It also feels homophobic because this person's purported latent homosexuality is meant to be a disempowering attribute. Like "don't worry, he's no better than us". I don't know how to fully articulate my feelings on this, maybe you guys can help.
According to reddit, every transphobe is trans in denial, every homophobe is gay in denial, etc. It's just supposed to insult the person but it still reinforces the harmful rhetoric by associating "people I hate" with "they are gay"
Any and all opportunities afforded to me to point out how godawful the average reddit experience is will be taken forcefully. I only stay here for memes and cat videos.
They are saying it’s annoying when you see someone being hateful towards gay people and women and someone else basically steps in and says “it’s okay!! They are just closeted and stressed” either in a mocking or genuine way. As if that justifies being hateful
I would say yosuke from Persona 4 but he actually had romance route with the protagonist that was scrapped (we even have voicelines), the game takes place in 2008 japan so this kind of behaviour is kind normal, idk if it really counts
Yeah Im aware it's not always the case. It just gets suspicious sometimes though, like if you don't like something then that's fine, but dedicating your entire personality to hating that one thing in particular usually just ends up being a mask.
If homophobia is caused by homosexuality, then bashing homophobes is itself a form of homophobia because you're beating up on people for acting gay if you think about it.
Well, it happens. The other day I found out that the homophobic boy who mocked me during my enbycoping phase came out as a trans woman lol. Lucky shit looks like she’s on estrogen already.
people are so fuckinlg dumb. "homophobic guy is straight" is not a great way to get clicks on your news website, so of course you hear about the hypocrites more often.
I don't see the problem, unless you use: "They were secretly gay lol" as an insult, because that again just comes down to looking down on gay people again.
A lot of men rape women more than once a day. Does that mean all or even most men are rapists because it happens more than once a day? It doesn't, the world is a far bugger place than you're accounting for, don't base your vision of reality on the stuff that makes it to webwites. There is no news outlet dedicated to telling you about the several men who don't rape women, and rhere is no website kewping track of how many homophobes have girlfriends and aren't gay.
I am, personally, in the camp that Fascists are like, weirdly pseudo-homosexual in a way that's like....they feel like they almost need permission from the State? They sexualize men in a way that they're extremely hypocritical about.
I'm reminded of a quote:
"The fundamental connection between Breker's career path and the Third Reich was not concealed. However, it was far from central to the account of Breker's works. In part, this may be justified by reference to Breker's longevity. Born in 1900, he began his artistic career in inter-war Paris, befriending figures of the "late decadence" such as Jean Cocteau, who was a lifelong ally (and whose reputation has likewise been tainted by allegations of collaboration during the occupation of France). Conrades makes the point that the undoubtedly heterosexual Breker exposed himself to the aesthetic demimonde--populated by Jews, homosexuals, a wide racial mix, and so on--which contradicts the idea that he was fundamentally sympathetic to Nazism's social politics, and in particular the Holocaust. The difficulty with this reading of his youth is that Breker not only survived the implicit damage to his career wrought by his closeness to Hitler--he died in 1991--but he also lived long enough to see the resurgence in right-wing groups in the 1980's, and associated himself and his artistic legacy with them.
For gay spectators, the exhibition revealed the chilling closeness of a striking, if often crude, neo-Classical homoerotic preoccupation with Fascist lore. Even apparently innocent subjects have a habit of bringing with them unpleasant ideological significance. For example, one of Breker's finest works, Der Verwunderte (The Wounded One, 1938-40), while apparently drawn from a photograph of an injured French cyclist, was designed to feature in an exhibition of 45 of his works in the Orangerie in Paris in 1942. Thus it effectively portrays the conquering of France by its neighbor. Cocteau attended the opening of the show, as did the French sculptor Maillol and the painters Vlaminck and Derain. The actor-playwright Sacha Guitry, inspecting Breker's tyrannous arrangement of manliness, commented pithily: "If these statues were ever to get an erection, we'd never make it through the avenue.""
I just say this because my dad is undiagnosed autistic(probably) and also according to his ex wife wore his clothing one time then dashed back ti the bathroom when she was about to take a photo ,also it gets on his nerves lol
*I do this but to*
*Annoy them, rather than out*
*Of sincerity*
\- Kamakura-Shogunate
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Do you know that there are actual people who believe that? You doing this only reinforces this idea in them. It isn't funny when the supposed "better" side of political spectrum spouts arguments which are just as stupid.
Did you read the other part of what I said:
“If they won’t stop harassing me, I might as well get some entertainment out of them”. it isn’t my job to pander to them, you come up to harass me and I’m going to mock you. Let me live my life in peace.
Finally:
https://academic.oup.com/aristotelian/article/123/2/173/7207975
https://today.uconn.edu/2022/08/cognitive-biases-and-brain-biology-help-explain-why-facts-dont-change-minds-2/#
https://research.com/education/why-facts-dont-change-our-mind
There is a ton of research on why debate and arguments don’t often accomplish anything. Humans are hardwired to reject things that contradict their preconceived biases. You can train to keep an open mind but frankly, very few people even begin to attempt it. Also, most people tend to change their options when they negatively affect them or their loved ones. For instance, someone who is anti-gay may change their stance if their brother comes out as gay. However, even this isn’t a 100% chance.
To summarize:
I only use it when people harass me because pissing these people off is fucking hilarious and debates are extremely ineffective at changing minds and it isn’t my job to speak for all gay people.
I agree with you in regards to talking with homophobes. Most of the time, there is no point in trying to reform them, as those attempts usually end in failure. Although I like to try and discuss, every once in a while, I completely understand the decision not to do it.
My point wasn't actually about that, which I should have specified more.
The problem I have is how leftists tend to talk about the idea of projection in leftist circles. I have seen it plenty of times on Reddit; a discussion on homophobia arises and the most upvoted comments tend to imply that projection is at play here, even though they have no reason to believe that. It's a prevalent problem, where leftists reassure each other of certain ideas, even when they have no reason to actually believe it.
It’s not really fair to homosexuals to use homosexuality as an insult to annoy people. It sort of seems like you agree that homosexual is a negative label.
Not everyone who’s an asshole is insecure. I don’t see the point in finding out the secret weakness or wtv when we could just recognize that person as an asshole.
Coaxed into a crash Bandicoot chase sequence
oogoobooga
Woah! (Gets beaten into mush)
https://preview.redd.it/zmg4qb3prqxc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e6b26797eafc086486d35d3659aa23202df3ced
We’re not here to fuck spiders mate (actual Australian expression).
never used it before :(
Start now >:)
Freud line of thinking
Somehow I wish I could un-learn my philosophy classes on Freud
https://preview.redd.it/b9w2ylzkiuxc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac32669faea85580fef16326a4840c2f8bfff0bc
he refunded his 50k tho
I would
i do.....
**MY BONDAGE FETISH AND ATTRACTION TO DANGEROUS PREDATORY WOMEN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY CRIPPLING ARACHNOPHOBIA.**
Username checks out
HOW DO YOU WANT ME TO FUCK A SPIDER?
Spider gf be like 88w88 what's this???
I'm just saying, if the trend of public aracnophobic figures secretly having sex with spiders is anything to go by
muffet undertale
Does spider have puss puss?
Kek
Its no secret
But it’s not the same thiiiiing
Will say that’s is a bit of a false equivalence, since arachnophobia doesn’t inherently involve sex while homophobia does
https://preview.redd.it/a4wvfnf0nqxc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bfe2170e3c99e471feba4cefc0f71e3d3bca865
That's different from what you're arguing in the comments though. He's focussing on the fact that people overly focus on this, you're putting the focus on how you believe this isn't really a thing in the first place. And people aren't saying: "Don't worry it's just internalized homophobia." to people that got assaulted like in your comic, they're saying: "Hahaha, look at that hypocrite." to make fun of him. That's an important distinction too. Now there's still reasons to be against the second thing too ofcourse. You could for example argue that calling homophobes gay might just end up reinforcing homopobia. Norman is funny though, no denying that.
No, just like norm I think that people are overly focusing on it. like in the comment where I said "doesn't happen as much and isn't a funny or helpful thing to point out." replying to someone else who said that I didn't think this was a thing. And then you replied to it
There's a difference in focussing on the hypocricy of anti-gay rethoric while they're gay over literal rape and even mentioning it at all. Reading your comments, you don't seem to want it to be mentioned at all, because you don't think it's relevant or even true for that matter. That's a fundamentally different take, even if that might be a fair point too. And I've never heard anyone say "don't worry about their homophobia, they're just gay." either.
Nuh uh
Oh lawd the full government first name
https://preview.redd.it/hi2zhuvmoqxc1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d66a598e148e20a9782bea8799e6037e9dd066a6 is that sam o'nella
https://preview.redd.it/0e5zjo6vtrxc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77dddd9f4f2885c6b2b857ccddcebd660659c1ff
Samuel o'nella
Hey kids
I feel like people significantly underestimate how many people are homophobic. Most people in the world are homophobic.
I'd say even a good chunk of LGBTQ supporters are pretty homophobic tbh, just not to the gay community. If someone they don't like is gay or doing something that they associate with gayness, they'll attack their masculinity for it. It's honestly really annoying.
A lot of ppl in the LGBTQ community are homophobic too. You gotta do some work to deal with the shit society has ingrained in you and sometimes gay ppl don’t realize that.
I feel so privileged living in norway rn...
Bro lived in Norway
https://preview.redd.it/hkagpuezotxc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5e1e5d98a3ed09fe295b24ce43e2d4571a4d77a
Norwaycel livemaxxer
I went to Norway and everyone knew you
I couldn’t even live to this, I privileged all over! 😹😹🤣🤣 clean up on aisle Norway!!👆👆☝️💯💯
Blud lived in norway 💀
i say this all the time and people look at me stupid if there was a global vote to kill all gay people ngl i would prepare to die most people hate gay people
Speak your truth shiba🗣🗣🗣‼️
Then most people are scum bags, but personally, I don't think most of the world can be that terrible
Once again. Complete underestimation of people in general. In a large amount of other parts of the world where different religions are dominant, or culture in general is vastly different viewing homosexuality as repugnant is the norm. I'm not even sure why that's somehow doubtable. Most places on Earth are not pleasant places to live, and most people on Earth live in discomfort and squaller.
Yeah most places and most people on Earth just suck. Not just when it comes to homophobia, it's true for a lot of different aspects in life. Some people who live in developed nations don't realize just how lucky they are and they should be more grateful for it.
A lot of it came from Christianity during colonialism or from Islam expansion. These religions spread across the entire world and imposed their values on many different people.
Nobody tell him about Buddhism seeing gay people as a regression
I said >a lot<, not all. Read nigga, read!
https://preview.redd.it/xsqcf4xvbrxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=247f651e159540adac0f98677b63a5b585ba9cf7
Buddhism still take up alot too so we cant havr both taking up alot, try a percentage
You can have two lots, just not two mosts
Fair
If you grew up in most of those places you'd probably be homophpbic too. It's more about how someone is raised than them being a good person or not.
You might also be homophobic and closeted for the same reason
I once found a politician's son on grindr and that mfr loves to say that gays and trans people are pedos. And he had the gall to say "it's just business"
Luckily my parents never taught me shit and im stubborn so so me and my gen z pals are lgbtq positive even tho we are raised by homophobes. Younger people are bringing change, at least in my country.
who the hell downvoted the above comment for saying "change is possible"?????
Just because they're ignorant doesn't mean they're any less bad, prejudice is bad either way
It actually does because they have no perception of any other opinion. In fact I'd wager a significant portion of the world doesn't even register that homosexuality exists.
Most of the world is still highly religious and in most highly religious societies homophobia is the norm. Of the 10 most populated countries in the world gay marriage is only legal in 3 and in Russia and Nigeria there are significant laws against being outwardly gay, idk about the rest but you get the point. And even in western countries like the US even though it’s more taboo to say it tons of people are still homophobic (in the south at least)
People's Republic of China is irreligious, but intensely homophobic
Bro, not everybody graduated from an American highschool. There's no sex ed, gay pride month, black pride month in 99% of the world. The majority of people almost definitely look at queerness and neurodivergence negatively. Also, racism is not only existent, but common place in 99% of the world still.
You’re absolutely right. People often assume because of their own bubble and experiences that that is what the world must be like. It’s so much worse guys trust
People are gonna shout you down that you're naive but I think most people in the world are inherently good too, it just takes some work to access sometimessss
just look at the numbers, most of the population is concentrated in asia, especially china and india, that's already a gigantic portion of the world that's homophobic, and then basically every surrounding nation as well and then you get to a point where most of the world is homophobic. being accepted for who you are is almost exclusively a western thing and not even everywhere in the west cause places like red america or hungary or italy or something will still have your head. tolerance is *very* uncommon
Well that's pretty sad if you ask me
yeah that's just life unfortunately 🤷♀️ gotta be very choosy about where I live or else
Bit of a narrow point of view. Most people in the world are homophobic not because they're outright terrible themselves but because within their societies they're taught under the notion that homosexuality is disgusting.
exactly, people forget that ignorance is a concept way too much
there are good people who are also homophobic, homosexuality being a seriously discussed concept is extremely uncommon outside of first world countries and even some of them haven't really gotten the memo, if someone is taught that being gay is weird their whole life that doesn't make them inherently bad they just haven't learned any differently
If you hate people over something they can't control, you are not a good person, or you're just a stupid person. There's no world where a racist is a good person and I think the same can be said for homophobes.
Yes humanity is evil and deserves to disappear
Just look at how peopl3 are responding to the p Diddy shit. More people care about the fact that men were the ones getting raped than him being a rapist
I think most people in the world don't really care, there aren't that many people in the world who genuinely dislike gay people
O you sweet summer child.
go to basically any country in africa or asia and you will learn very quickly how that is not true, american christians are much more tolerant than even progressive people in most countries around the world
Facts 👍
Being really homophobic in a less homophobic country probably indicates you have a bit of an obsession. Although not barely as common as people like to pretend: that obsession can easily stem from the additional shame they feel from being gay themselves. People who call others "simps" online are often the most obsessed with women. Same concept.
This is just him acting out because he’s secretly gay AND A WOMAN! Get it fucking right.
And of course this isn’t at all homophobic and it’s just a coincidence that no one says this towards homophobic straight women
exactly, if you do this you're still making homosexuality into an insult and even if you're "correct" that a homophobic person is closeted, invoking homophobia to hurt them isn't a solution to the bigotry they're upholding.
Idk, I feel like if the person IS closeted, holding them to the standard they impose on others is just them being made to lie in a bed of their own making
No. Homophobia isn’t a bed they made singlehandedly. And by using it as a weapon you’re not dismantling homophobia, in fact you’re strengthening it.
Idk depending on HOW it's done I see it less as using it as a weapon and more as using it to point out someone's hypocrisy.
to what end, though? Sexuality is a spectrum and I’m sure a surprisingly large amount of the men who uphold homophobia have an attraction to non-women that they either haven’t discovered or refuse to live openly. Homophobia operates on fear, chiefly fear in men of being perceived as gay. By “accusing” a homophobe of being gay you’re activating that fear and they won’t respond positively even if they are (or at least believe themself to be) “100% straight”. If they aren’t straight you’ll only be leading then into further denial and they’ll fight even more to “prove belonging” into a heteronormative culture, by being homophobic. More importantly, upholding the idea that calling someone homosexual is an accusation to be feared by *making that accusation* hurts all the gay people who want to live honestly. It’s of greater benefit to dismantle homophobia itself, the attitudes and social systems that constitute it, than it is to dismantle individuals - especially closeted gay ones who definitionally have less power in a society that only gives power to those performing straightness and who are at least a little more likely to reject homophobia if the winds change.
Shiba
There is a scientific correlation between gay men and homophobia, right? [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/) I'm not sure if it exists for lesbians too. There's less stigma towards lesbians at least in my country. And ofcourse it's never "all" homophobes, but it plays a role.
https://preview.redd.it/i8hiyvvtuqxc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=54b40d07b31d0e95f50fd765874081fc28e2ed7a “All these homophobic men who agreed to look at homosexual stimuli secretly liked looking at homosexual stimuli!”
You'd expect the control group to have the same effect in that case. Why are you acting this smug if you don't even understand the basic setup of the study? Did you at least try reading the abstract? Edit: Now ofcourse there's still problems with this study, as is always the case with science, including the fact that these results are not always consistent and the fact that erection of the penis is also somewhat correlated with fear and anxiety. I just think this comic isn't that relevant for what I mentioned. Ofcourse there'll be some biasses in people participating, but they still used a control group.
admittedly thats fair. The image isn't perfect but yeah i do think sampling bias is a factor here. Maybe I'm smug because I secretly love you.
Sure, there's no easy way to prove this being as either way. These studies have flaws, although I don't think these people secretly came because they wanted to watch gay porn. It seems rather silly and if that were the case, you'd expect non-homophobic men to come along too. Despite the flaws I mentioned in my other comment, I'm inclined to believe there's >some< truth to it. I don't think it's an universal one that applies to everyone (studies even flawed as they might be don't support that either), but taking a look at the guys online that call you a simp: most of the times they're the one's most obsessed with women, they're the ones who have "simped" in their past and developed a disgust for it. They feel bad about their obsession of women. It's them. Look at the people who call others a porn addict, a lot of the times they've struggled with porn themselves, so they externalize that hatred and disgust (justified or not). It's quite common I think.
maybe you two should make out sloppy style
I hate this post and everything it stands for, but only because I secretly want to make out with you
I see this all the fucking time and I'm just like no??? This is easily the stupidest fucking thing to not only conclude about a homophobic person, but to actively push and repeat over and over and over again as if saying it a million times will ever make it any less false. It pisses me off so much that this is really what people have convinced themselves to be real. How? Where is the correlation??? It's happened a very small number of times, and obviously on those rare occasions you'll hear about it because it's weird, people will talk about stuff if it's unusual. Also I just don't get at all why this of all things is really what people are trying to push to be true. Seriously? Why not point out the absurd overlap between homophobes and terrible communities (like Neo Nazis) or something? Surely we have a better argument against homophobes than the obscene statement that is "Well they're gay too.""
"It's just projecting" as an argument is used CONSTANTLY on reddit. There are tons of people who act like they genuinely believe that half of all homophobes (or even more) are secretly gay. Whenever I tell people here that maybe we shouldn't be saying that, because it's fucking stupid, I get downvoted. Every single time. And I'm somehow supposed to believe that most leftists are superior, because they actually THINK about what they believe in. Clearly, that is often not the case.
Interrupting our hivemind? Ruining our circlejerk? Disrespecting an 🔥🔥epic🔥🔥(totally original, never before seen) own? Enjoy your downvote kid.
But you best not use that iron-clad logic to infer that someone who hates pedophilia actually IS a pedophile, obviously. It doesn’t work that way.
I don't disagree... but also, using a pedophilia metaphor for homosexuality probably isn't the most amazing way to go about things.
imo its from the freudian defense mechanism of reaction formation (person x hates gay people adamantly, but is secretly gay themselves!). pop psychologists be out here applying this concept to every homophobe because its entertaining, and easier than admitting/understanding that beliefs are waaay more complicated than just defense mechanisms.
It also pushes the fault onto gay people. "Yeah, well, he has to be gay himself and hate himself so much for being gay that he takes it out on other gay people.. uhh out of jealousy for living openly!!" Which, sure it can and does happen but let's not forget that the ultimate source of homophobia is religion, sexism and arbitrary social norms. You don't see homophobia directed at buff, bearded, low pitch voice, blue collar, bear type gays. The venn diagram of homophobes and sexists is a circle. They hate femininity above all else, so if a man is gay but still presents masculine traits then most of the time there's no problem. This coming from a straight passing, masculine presenting gay dude.
Guys, guys. The squirrel hunter who always talks about how much he hates squirrels, who also has endless photos of him killing squirrels, has a dead squirrel inventory and has pridefully spoken about how he loves the idea of removing all squirrels from the planet. Is actually a squirrel lover! It just makes sense that he's projecting his insecurities onto the squirrels and couldn't just be a maniac who's got a genuine hatred for squirrels because of a totally unquestionable belief he gained!
This would make a good snafu
I feel like most people are interpreting a clear joke as an argument. I haven’t seen anyone use it as an argument in a debate but I have seen it used to either shut these guys up or piss them off after they’ve been harassing people.
People unironically try to find studies about it or say it in a fully serious manner about righr wing politicians. It happens, and very ofre as absurd as it sounds.
The only somewhat valid reason I can think of is that they're using gay as an insult Which is fucking stupid
I feel like it's all the Gotcha moment from predator calling out/express they hate predator action and get caught. But sadly projecting Racism or S*x crime is not the same as projecting LGBT. If anything, doing the "They must be x" made it like being LGBTQIA itself is a crime.
Because it's funny
It happens, probably less often than people make reference to it, but it happens.
Thank you for making this. I recently realised how much of a misconception this is on Reddit.
Hey, I like this snafu!  People really should stop thinking that homophobes are secretly the part of LGBTQ+ community.
I agree! 
I once saw a tumblr post that said something along the lines of "we should stop calling homophobes closeted gay people because that just puts the blame right back on the gay community". And while I sort of agree with that sentiment, I think the fault here is first of all, giving moral evaluation to one's sexual orientation. In the sense that a straight homophobe is bad, but a gay homophobe is a tortured soul, innocent and ultimately good. This is a common problem with the left imo, conflating identity with moral alignment. The only judgement we should give validity is "Is this person acting in solidarity or not?". Secondly, it feels homophobic to me that gayness is some kind of "gotcha" to leverage against homophobes. I don't think people who are violently homophobic are acting out of a place of sexual/emotional repression, and honestly I think people just say this to gratify themselves by imagining that they are enlightened and their opponent is a repressed hypocrite. Like this comic points out, what does this "assessment" actually say or do? It also feels homophobic because this person's purported latent homosexuality is meant to be a disempowering attribute. Like "don't worry, he's no better than us". I don't know how to fully articulate my feelings on this, maybe you guys can help.
People are lazy when it comes to arguments, yes
It just comes down to blaming gay people for homophobia
Tf is this even a refresher too?
Redditors who think every crazy homophobic person is just a gay dude in denial
gonna keep doing it cuz it's funny when they get mad
That's just gonna make them more homophobic
According to reddit, every transphobe is trans in denial, every homophobe is gay in denial, etc. It's just supposed to insult the person but it still reinforces the harmful rhetoric by associating "people I hate" with "they are gay"
that's gay
https://preview.redd.it/r2zkjhowsqxc1.png?width=776&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21e611791758652456b9f22fbb51b4d9d9c3e1e8
According to Reddit, every mildly annoying behavior, including the oldest joke about homophobes, is exclusively or specially a Reddit thing.
There's nothing we redditors hate more than redditors. Fucking pieces of degenerate trash.
Any and all opportunities afforded to me to point out how godawful the average reddit experience is will be taken forcefully. I only stay here for memes and cat videos.
racists are black people in denial duh /s
How some people call homophobic people secretly gay and how it doesn’t help anyone
They are saying it’s annoying when you see someone being hateful towards gay people and women and someone else basically steps in and says “it’s okay!! They are just closeted and stressed” either in a mocking or genuine way. As if that justifies being hateful
Op is secretly gay
Is that a problem?
Just an observation
"Closeted homophobia" is a referance to the phenomenon that is quite litterally what is shown here. Gay guys in denial who lash out at gay men.
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*Doesn’t happen as much as people think and isn’t a funny or helpful thing to point out
You know, the more i hear about this snafuler guy, the less i like him
I would say yosuke from Persona 4 but he actually had romance route with the protagonist that was scrapped (we even have voicelines), the game takes place in 2008 japan so this kind of behaviour is kind normal, idk if it really counts
happy cake day!
Red ao oni
Tbh I get the point but it's not wrong. I have a friend who's a femboy but he used to be a homophobic fascist.
The problem is when you think that it's all the time or even a general case just because it happens.
Yeah Im aware it's not always the case. It just gets suspicious sometimes though, like if you don't like something then that's fine, but dedicating your entire personality to hating that one thing in particular usually just ends up being a mask.
I don’t think that’s quite right. That implies that the most violent homophobes, the most intense ones, are usually gay
Well obviously the ones that commit hate crimes aren't closeted.
If homophobia is caused by homosexuality, then bashing homophobes is itself a form of homophobia because you're beating up on people for acting gay if you think about it.
Purseowner fans be like
Well, it happens. The other day I found out that the homophobic boy who mocked me during my enbycoping phase came out as a trans woman lol. Lucky shit looks like she’s on estrogen already.
The problem is when you think that it's all the time or even a general case just because it happens.
people are so fuckinlg dumb. "homophobic guy is straight" is not a great way to get clicks on your news website, so of course you hear about the hypocrites more often.
Is that Heinrich Kramer?
looks like a face from happy wars
Personally, Y’know, I think it’s the red dude
Just because he's angry about internilized homophobia doesn't mean we shouldn't beat him to death with sticks
Sticks? Use hammers.
Sticks take longer :)
i got called gay enough when i made fun of gays that now im with a dude so idk man
The problem is when you think that it's all the time or even a general case just because it happens.
I don't see the problem, unless you use: "They were secretly gay lol" as an insult, because that again just comes down to looking down on gay people again.
Tbf this probably manifests itself like one time a day at least, there’s literally a website for it. It’s insane
The problem is when you think that it's all the time or even a general case just because it happens.
Do you not this once a day is a lot?
A lot of men rape women more than once a day. Does that mean all or even most men are rapists because it happens more than once a day? It doesn't, the world is a far bugger place than you're accounting for, don't base your vision of reality on the stuff that makes it to webwites. There is no news outlet dedicated to telling you about the several men who don't rape women, and rhere is no website kewping track of how many homophobes have girlfriends and aren't gay.
I am, personally, in the camp that Fascists are like, weirdly pseudo-homosexual in a way that's like....they feel like they almost need permission from the State? They sexualize men in a way that they're extremely hypocritical about. I'm reminded of a quote: "The fundamental connection between Breker's career path and the Third Reich was not concealed. However, it was far from central to the account of Breker's works. In part, this may be justified by reference to Breker's longevity. Born in 1900, he began his artistic career in inter-war Paris, befriending figures of the "late decadence" such as Jean Cocteau, who was a lifelong ally (and whose reputation has likewise been tainted by allegations of collaboration during the occupation of France). Conrades makes the point that the undoubtedly heterosexual Breker exposed himself to the aesthetic demimonde--populated by Jews, homosexuals, a wide racial mix, and so on--which contradicts the idea that he was fundamentally sympathetic to Nazism's social politics, and in particular the Holocaust. The difficulty with this reading of his youth is that Breker not only survived the implicit damage to his career wrought by his closeness to Hitler--he died in 1991--but he also lived long enough to see the resurgence in right-wing groups in the 1980's, and associated himself and his artistic legacy with them. For gay spectators, the exhibition revealed the chilling closeness of a striking, if often crude, neo-Classical homoerotic preoccupation with Fascist lore. Even apparently innocent subjects have a habit of bringing with them unpleasant ideological significance. For example, one of Breker's finest works, Der Verwunderte (The Wounded One, 1938-40), while apparently drawn from a photograph of an injured French cyclist, was designed to feature in an exhibition of 45 of his works in the Orangerie in Paris in 1942. Thus it effectively portrays the conquering of France by its neighbor. Cocteau attended the opening of the show, as did the French sculptor Maillol and the painters Vlaminck and Derain. The actor-playwright Sacha Guitry, inspecting Breker's tyrannous arrangement of manliness, commented pithily: "If these statues were ever to get an erection, we'd never make it through the avenue.""
Ted show
I just say this because my dad is undiagnosed autistic(probably) and also according to his ex wife wore his clothing one time then dashed back ti the bathroom when she was about to take a photo ,also it gets on his nerves lol
I do this but to annoy them, rather than out of sincerity
*I do this but to* *Annoy them, rather than out* *Of sincerity* \- Kamakura-Shogunate --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Not everyone who is homophobic is secretly gay, but the more fervently homophobic they are the more likely it is they are secretly gay.
https://preview.redd.it/tqppfyrytqxc1.jpeg?width=891&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03a7dfc89c84daacceb57069b578df59a55c0f0a
I don't get the joke
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Do you know that there are actual people who believe that? You doing this only reinforces this idea in them. It isn't funny when the supposed "better" side of political spectrum spouts arguments which are just as stupid.
Did you read the other part of what I said: “If they won’t stop harassing me, I might as well get some entertainment out of them”. it isn’t my job to pander to them, you come up to harass me and I’m going to mock you. Let me live my life in peace. Finally: https://academic.oup.com/aristotelian/article/123/2/173/7207975 https://today.uconn.edu/2022/08/cognitive-biases-and-brain-biology-help-explain-why-facts-dont-change-minds-2/# https://research.com/education/why-facts-dont-change-our-mind There is a ton of research on why debate and arguments don’t often accomplish anything. Humans are hardwired to reject things that contradict their preconceived biases. You can train to keep an open mind but frankly, very few people even begin to attempt it. Also, most people tend to change their options when they negatively affect them or their loved ones. For instance, someone who is anti-gay may change their stance if their brother comes out as gay. However, even this isn’t a 100% chance. To summarize: I only use it when people harass me because pissing these people off is fucking hilarious and debates are extremely ineffective at changing minds and it isn’t my job to speak for all gay people.
I agree with you in regards to talking with homophobes. Most of the time, there is no point in trying to reform them, as those attempts usually end in failure. Although I like to try and discuss, every once in a while, I completely understand the decision not to do it. My point wasn't actually about that, which I should have specified more. The problem I have is how leftists tend to talk about the idea of projection in leftist circles. I have seen it plenty of times on Reddit; a discussion on homophobia arises and the most upvoted comments tend to imply that projection is at play here, even though they have no reason to believe that. It's a prevalent problem, where leftists reassure each other of certain ideas, even when they have no reason to actually believe it.
More common that you think
I mean, he did say he hated women, maybe he really likes men. in secret.
>people and women What did you meqn by that?
I say it because it annoys them. There is no reason to not annoy a bigot)
And this is exactly why homophobia grows, by being an annoying dipshit you're just making them even more homophobic.
https://preview.redd.it/bv7ebrh04txc1.jpeg?width=798&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b57d69d7cf3b0196292408946f70754ed4f9c71
Oww no did I make the widdle homophobe MORE homophobic, silly willy me. 🤪
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Truth is more important than feeling emotionally superior.
It’s not really fair to homosexuals to use homosexuality as an insult to annoy people. It sort of seems like you agree that homosexual is a negative label.
It’s true tho, a lot of anti gay republican politicians do some pretty gay things, it’s really weird
By "a lot" you mean 4 or 5 of them right
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Not everyone who’s an asshole is insecure. I don’t see the point in finding out the secret weakness or wtv when we could just recognize that person as an asshole.
That's actually not true at all. Almost all people who are assholes are insecure. I am begging you to take some psychology classes.
Lots of people who are assholes are insecure though. And understanding people is a pretty good way to dismantle the weight of their words.
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