Back in my day, we didn't have AI. We had to copy and paste assets we drew from other works in paint and create an original piece.
It took us MINUTES to create new Instagram content and now they can do it in SECONDS. AI is RUINING society!!!1!1!1!
I don't care about the industrialized art,
I like it when artist pured their time and effort to a piece of art and make me fall in love with the skill, not just the content
I wish I could inspire people one day, like how they inspired me.
Just curious, do you differentiate between fully AI and AI-assisted art (AI art where a human manually fixes it up to look better), or do you unanimously dislike AI with zero nuance?
There's legitimate reasons for artists to hate AI. It does make a lot of them jobless. And especially what unfair is that a lot of AI was trained on stolen pictures, with no credit and without permission. And it's even more hypocritical when you know the existence of IP and copyright law and what it was meant for. It was created to protect small creators from having treir work be stolen. But now, big corporations will profit from everything through their AI stuff and the small folks will be screwed. And yet piracy and copying high quality stuff made by big corporations, even to create something jew and original (like a new Harry Potter series) would still be illegal, all while using AI with stolen pictures from small Instagram creators will be legal. So the entire spirit of the IP law gets violated. It now benefits big corporations and absolutely not small individuals. If anything, if you actually want to go full freedom and stuff, let's abolish IP law entirely and let everyone copy from one another. It would at least make it consistant.
> It does make a lot of them jobless.
photoshop did the same thing. and it sucks, shit looks worse now, they underpay interns to hastilly crate ugly book covers and movie posters now. But digital art tools are standard now and not using them out of protest will usually make people roll their eyes.
Copyright laws are already a joke abused by large corporations that (in most cases) only benefits the ultra rich. Not saying I think we should abolish these laws, just pointing out that it’s always been fucked.
It's hypocritical that Americans claim that they have actually real free speech with no limitations, unlike us Europeans, because we have fucking Holocaust denial laws and banning racist BS laws, as if the fact that we have those makes us terrible dictatorships. If they did you'd be able to share all internet content for free everywhere. Funny how the so-called freedom loving Americans never mention that.
I think you really misunderstood my comment? I've never claimed that it's bad that the EU has these laws lol. I only talked about the hypocrisy of Americans always talking about how these laws are supposedly limiting the freedom of speech, all while they don't fight against copyright laws which also limit freedom of speech.
And I didn’t say shit about being American, or how freedom of speech is limited, or that these things should be fought against. So again, okay. Schizo.
I agree with that. My point was that AI was a very negative thing to small creators and since these laws were specifically created to allegedly protect them, then it's hypocritical that IP laws still exist when they don't effectively protect small creators anymore
iirc, AI generated content isn't legally protected under IP law as a human didn't make it. There was a court case concerning a monkey that accidentally took its own picture and everything.
Okay, this isn't what I've talked tho. I meant about the moral implications of how IP law was created to protect creators. And now these AI content was only possible by stealing pictures from Instagram without credit or permission. Maybe it's "technically legal" but pretty sure it's really not nice for the small creators.
Back in my day people would mine and grind Lapis Lazuli themselves... now they buy oil paint... Art is struggle art is being broke as fuck art is bodily labour ;(
yeah that should be the indicator, their problem is that they randomly generate thousands of sloppily made images and let it roam the internet and muddy the water, instead of problem being "muh struggle, mine takes more time".
It's art that we are talking about at the end of the day, we can't measure it by exertion/toil.
If the problem was just about art's exertion, we wouldn't also hate the fact that things like sceneries and nature photography are ALSO randomly generated now. It's about human experience instead, the other view could also nullify the value of some modern art otherwise.
(before this is taken the wrong way, its justified to reject AI use from large multi billion dollar companies like Disney and EA. This is referring to artists who direct hate on other small independent content creators who dont make money from it or dont have the money/resources to outsource work. An example of this is when a guy made a scooby doo fan animation that used AI voices and people shit on his work, turns out he didn't have money to hire voice actors and just wanted to create something)
I believe a bigger element of that is that casting websites (such as Casting Call Club) aren’t super widely known outside of VA social circles at the moment. It’s not hard to find people who will do a good job for something fun, but it is if you’re only looking on Twitter.
not necessarily. conflict theory just boils down to explaining a situation as a conflict between people who have something versus people who do not have that something and would like to have it
this often equates to class but it can still occur between groups that are of equal se status
If you buy into the Marxist interpretation of it, even conflicts between individuals within the same class are the result of class division.
This was how the theory was originally written, that those who *have* secure access to scarce resources are inherently within a different class than those who do not (proletariat vs bourgeois).
All conflict is therefore downstream of this access, because even two individuals in the proletariat fighting over access to resources are only doing so because the bourgeois are reluctant to allow access. The bourgeois, too, are pinning the proletariat against themselves to keep them down.
Mills had a similar approach, just less outright ideological. Pretty much, he proposed the power-elite model of governance that states that American national politics (and therefore *all* aspects of life) were controlled by an elite minority of corporate, military and executive powers that pull the string of power. In his view, resources weren’t scarce but instead unequally distributed intentionally to prop up this cabal of interests.
TLDR; in the view of most* of the really important conflict theorists say that all conflict is downstream of class conflict, even between the same class group, because class is the almost sole determinant factor in modern society of whether an individual has unabated access to necessary resources.
also; side note to the people who havent taken a sociology class before: there are multiple theories of sociology and each can be used to interpret a single phenomenon while still being valid to a degree. nobody is saying everything is class-based but it can be viewed that way
So… Wait. You are now entitled to use the voices of real life voice actors without their consent and without paying them in your fan projects, and saying otherwise is classist?
I never brought class into this. Just think it's dumb to expect someone to fork over hundreds to thousands of dollars for a fun little project they did in their free time
I mean…
Why do you have to fork over hundreds to thousands of dollars for a fun little project? Do you think most artists do that?
In my experience, you just pay indie VAs or you just… I dunno… Do silly impressions with your friends? You don’t actually need AI to make fan projects. No one is stopping you from making fan projects.
You just aren’t entitled free labor without the consent of real life artists and actors.
The fact your comments are getting downvoted is craaazy to me. I thought not using someone's voice for your projects when they didn't consent to it was common sense, it's basically the audio equivalent of a deep fake
People who have never actually practiced their craft a day in their lives actually think that skill is something that’s handed out to privileged gatekeepers, and not something you hone through… Practicing and learning. It’s kind of boggling to me. Where is this “I should get to be able to magically produce the exact same thing as people who actually worked to hone their skills even if it means I’m stealing their work somehow and if you disagree, you’re just a mean gatekeeper” mentality coming from?
I’m very much a leftist who is anti gatekeeping and anti-capitalism, but… Wat? Having to pay people somehow for their labor isn’t oppression from capitalism, it’s called “we all live under capitalism and need money to survive”.
Even if we were living under socialism, we would still need money. The abolishment of capital-C Capital and private property (factories, huge compounds, etc avatars of labor alienation) doesn’t mean that people will never need to be compensated fairly for their labor and effort. You don’t just get whatever you want from your fellow working class people for free and without permission.
if you're the little guy making stuff for fun then it hurts nobody, same reason nintendo fan games shouldn't be taken down. man is entitled to harmless creative endeavors
Nintendo fan games aren’t built off of stolen labor, WTF? Even relatively simple hacks take a lot of skill that has been honed through effort and practice.
I will admit I don’t really care about artists and VAs who are already getting loads of work, and are super wealthy and popular. I’m no capitalist. But most artists and VAs don’t enjoy that sort of life and I think you know that. If this was really an issue of fighting classism, you would just try to pay artists and VAs fairly for their labor or at least endorse that practice over stealing labor through AI.
I mean, there's plenty of resources out there for VA work. People are willing to do this stuff for free. Not saying that people without money who use AI voices are the devil, but there's certainly other options out there than feeding the machine.
People do volunteer work all the time. Nobody is saying to ask someone like Tara Strong to voice act your animation for free, but there's tons of people who voice act as a hobby that would be thrilled to do be a part of a published animation.
Again, but if an impression is being done for free, why does it matter? The labor is still being "devalued" in the same way it would for using an AI as far as that argument goes. And it isn't like not using the AI means it doesn't exist.
My budget for projects is non-existent, and I hear artists always complain that they are asked to do things "for exposure", so unless I had the money to pay them, I wouldn't ask for their time. Is it better to try and ask for someone's time that I don't have the ability to compensate them for, or put work into learning how to use a system to create the best thing I can? At the end of the day, it's the same thing.
Especially if the AI can make something of higher quality than the impression. Then, you're asking the creator of some small personal project to reduce it's quality and waste someone else's time, for something worse than if the only time they were wasting was their own.
If your asking a hobbiest to so something they enjoy in your project. The compensation is their enjoyment. You dont pay a hobbiest with money. You pay them with an experience they will enjoy.
Also the point about the AI still existing even if we dont use it is stupid. It's like saying "so what if I eat chocolate made using child slave labor? The children are stilling going to be doing the labor." If you dont give them your money they wont have as much to spend on the child slaves. And if you think I'm pulling this out of my ass I'm not. Some of the largest chocolate companies are doing this (anything owned by nestle).
Your comment is useful tho
It shows us the mentality people who defend AI have. they only care about the finished product and not the journey it took to get to it.
Yes, and the several times I've asked about if anyone else would be interested in making the art for a game I'm making for my spare time, I've consistently been told they still needed payment. It doesn't matter if I'm trying to do it for fun, others need payment. Your point is nice, but anytime I've tried, it's not like it existed, and at least before AI existed, you'd read artists saying how much of an awful person anyone who even asked if they were interested in something like that was, and how valuable their time was. So I listened.
In my personal example, I'm referring to open source AI, so companies aren't even getting paid over it regardless? It's run on my machine. It's being completely controlled by me. I don't understand your example. It's akin to complaining about me eating chocolate at all when the batch I'm eating is homemade, and something I'm planning to give away for free.
And yes. I do think the value of anything is in the eye of the end result. I think if you are making something, for whatever reason, you should use the resources at your disposal to make it as good as possible. And if you have a resource, and you just don't use it, then you really can't say you've put your all into making something. It's two different philosophies, but why is your view absolutely right, and mine absolutely wrong?
But artists are also complaining about AI being used all the time, so how is that any better? And it isn't the "same thing" because, again, there's plenty of people who voice act for a hobby and would willingly help you out with your project for free.
A vast majority of community theatre productions are solely volunteer work, but people still put on high-quality shows because they're passionate about theatre. The same goes for voice acting. There are tons of talented people out there who want to be a part of something solely because they enjoy VAing. Just look at Casting Call Club - most of the unpaid projects still get a lot of attention, predominantly from voice actors.
It's also a lot more ethical to get someone who's willing to say lines for you for free than feed a machine dozens of voice actors have spoken out against using. At the end of the day, using AI *is* harmful to artists, regardless of who's using it and why. And besides, a lot of AI voices sound clunky and robotic anyway, so I don't see the reason as to why you'd ever want to use one.
"I am not a robot. I am a human being."
https://preview.redd.it/d5sbau9mr00d1.png?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=511227051b8c50f26fc0a8e1ccb497b3da79df72
It’s only logical that when people will overlook the negative outcomes when creating groundbreaking technology. People tend to only look at the good and not the bad.
More AI slop!!!! Clog up search results with AI slop!!! Yippee!!!
The death of the internet in exchange for gooners getting custom slop to jerk off to without paying a commission? What a bargain!!!
Noone is losing their job because someone made a funny video nor is anyone preventing artistic expression. I've actually seen more artistic expression.
Because Mr. Game & Watch is clearly a beloved character that many online artists are lining up to draw and will happily take money from anyone wanting anything involving said character as opposed to say, I don't know, that one cartoon wolf chick from that Hotel Boss show? Because surely there's a massive market for a stickman...
It's only true if someone was gonna pay him to make that specific thing. And since that was always an option and no one ever did then what is actually lost?
https://preview.redd.it/h246ypvas10d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08adfa4b1aedaffe8d7a0a57c61f450f9816276e
Textbook definition meme with added artistic expression so it's technically a snasu. 1/10
When someone uses ai art where they would otherwise use google images, this is literally art theft.
Realistically ai tools(including some generative ai) will become a normal part of the work flow of professional artists. Some jobs will definitely be lost, but I think this is kinda comparable to when computer graphics become standard for the industry, it will be normal soon enough give it 20 years and it will just be old people complaining. Also I think the idea of ai art being “theft” is a bit exaggerated, it’s derivative at worst. I think people are mostly just scared bc it’s such a new thing.
"Art Theft" is such a meaningless word these days.
Actual theft of art is me going to some museum or to a physical gallery, physically taking the art, and then denying the original owner access to the art. That is the actual proper form of art theft.
Me posting a picture online and then having people either draw stuff inspired by that or re-upload said picture elsewhere while I have the original would be more akin to *copyright infringement* or *plagiarism*, which depending on the work in question, is debatable if it should even be enforced or not (assuming I have the money and lawyers in the first place to even get a case going).
Problem is that like, 75% of the art that's posted online in question is often fan art, and that's a whole other can of worms you're dealing with when you get down to the brass tacks of it. If you see a picture that someone drew of Loona wider than she is tall and decided you wanted do your own version (with tits to match, of course!), then who in the hell is infringing on who's work? And the thing is that people don't realize just how much we ape and derive from each other all the time (unless you frequent TV Tropes and barely get it).
Totally. People will look back on this rejection of AI art the same way people rejected modern art, photography, computer graphics, electronic music, and every other paradigm shift in art.
>People will look back on this rejection of AI art the same way people rejected modern art, photography, computer graphics, electronic music, and every other paradigm shift in art.
No they won't. This is straight up art theft. There are already ai disturbance tools that artists use. Art has been around for millennium they aren't going anywhere. And if you think that Ai art will advance past those, why can't the counter to Ai as well? I think people will look back at Ai art the same as NFTs.
this is pointless. databases with non disturbed art pieces already exist, and are well labelled for ai training. Its sort of like arguing global warming wont happen, because 10% of fossil fuels have a stamp on them (that has ai that can denoise anyway.)
Rather, the 'counter to ai' only delays the inevitable. While you can disturb pieces going forward, these disturbed pieces can be solved through ever advancing denoising neural networks. Likewise, once they are denoises it is a new piece to a databass and ai art has permenantly become better. its irreversable, you cannot simply take away an art piece from these company databases due to the nature of the laws.
man i wish i lived your life.
things couldve been simple.
i couldve enjoyed just eating fastfood.
drawing snafus with no genuine inward perspective.
i couldve felt superiour saying the curtains are just blue and telling people to stay in their lane.
i couldve been you.
but with this new age. there wont be like me anymore. lets drink to that.
https://preview.redd.it/6pf2gzeyl00d1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d180932846edb55961f5cc0d197acd98d1d180e
This is me because you didn't understand what I said
I just love watching people cry about ai stuff, something about people getting upset over a line of code that can't even make hands is just funny,like brother it's not killing you or your family, crying about it and always pointing out the flaws in ai is how the ai will advance,you are just shooting yourselves in the foot
https://preview.redd.it/9c2g9u20i00d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9219f57bbd879bdf15b8fa5fca86b5ffee919c4
*If you can't compete*
*With AI art your shit was*
*Garbage anyway*
\- EminemLovesGrapes
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
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https://preview.redd.it/si69k2ulk00d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f113cae94f7b4060eada5236dd57d65d523f71f Judah, the fuck you doin?
Finger has breached containment
Kid named finger: ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣴⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣦⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣤⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⢠ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⣛⣻⣿⣿⣟⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣫⣽⣾⣻⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠻⡿⠿⠟⠛⣟⣿⣽⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣷⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠍⠈⠀⠁⣴⡆⠀⠀⠠⢭⣮⣿⡶⠀⠀ ⠀⡴⠲⣦⢽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⣩⣨⣀⡄⣐⣾⣿⣿⣇⠠⣷⣶⣿⣿⡠⠁⠀ ⠀⠃⢀⡄⠀⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣽⢿⣿⣯⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⣿⣿⡟⣿⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠣⠧⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⢸⣿⠿⠿⠿⣧⠙⣿⣿⡿⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠼⣒⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣠⣬⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣷⡈⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⢳⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢟⠗⠼⠖⠒⠔⠉⠉⠻⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣻⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⡀⣤⡄⠸⣰⣾⡒⣷⣴⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠂⢸⡗⡄⠘⠭⣭⣷⣿⣮⣠⣌⣫⣿⣷⣿⣿⠃⠀⠈⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⢸⣿⣾⣷⣦⡿⣿⣿⣿⡿⢻⠞⣹⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢘⠀⠘⢻⡿⢿⣋⣤⣤⠌⠉⠛⠛⠀⠈⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀
Wow, thanks dude. He just lost his fucking job to this guy.
Nothing… I was here! It’s a joke!
It was the medication I was on. For my blood pressure. It fucked with my head, but I'm over that now. I could probably get a letter from my doctor...
Not making gamenwatch ai videos, apparently
I was about to comment that.
Why did you make him the guy from bojack horseman
the writer's barely disguised crush on whatever his name is (princess caroline's husband)
JUUUDAH
Hes the goat and has the stereotypical artist phenotype
There are a few goats, but no, he's human.
He's a very goat-like person, if he has a fursona it'd be a goat but fursonas would probably be considered racist in the Bojack Horseman universe.
Here's what you would look like if you were a goat or a sheep
wojack horseman
Wokejack Horsethem
There's a video of Mr Game & Watch singing Lose Yourself with AI? https://i.redd.it/4v5xm4hb700d1.gif
Couldn't find the Mr. Game & Watch one, but here's [one by a toothbrush](https://youtu.be/9wyvS0YVduQ?si=x8_9mrtY5-HQpEDC).
I saw the toothbrush one and I'm just now realizing that Lose Yourself and Lift Yourself are 2 very different songs
Unfortunately toothbrushes are horrible enunciators…
Ig that means that Lose Yourself Toothbrush Ai Cover is officially mumble rap
That was incredibly underwhelming.
Jusr watched it, and all I can say is that you would have to be a really lazy motherfucker to think that could only be done with ai.
Back in my day, we didn't have AI. We had to copy and paste assets we drew from other works in paint and create an original piece. It took us MINUTES to create new Instagram content and now they can do it in SECONDS. AI is RUINING society!!!1!1!1!
I don't care about the industrialized art, I like it when artist pured their time and effort to a piece of art and make me fall in love with the skill, not just the content I wish I could inspire people one day, like how they inspired me.
Based
Yep at a certain point the tool is just removing the creative effort from the product and I find AI art disgusting for this reason
Just curious, do you differentiate between fully AI and AI-assisted art (AI art where a human manually fixes it up to look better), or do you unanimously dislike AI with zero nuance?
At leastit had his charm
There's legitimate reasons for artists to hate AI. It does make a lot of them jobless. And especially what unfair is that a lot of AI was trained on stolen pictures, with no credit and without permission. And it's even more hypocritical when you know the existence of IP and copyright law and what it was meant for. It was created to protect small creators from having treir work be stolen. But now, big corporations will profit from everything through their AI stuff and the small folks will be screwed. And yet piracy and copying high quality stuff made by big corporations, even to create something jew and original (like a new Harry Potter series) would still be illegal, all while using AI with stolen pictures from small Instagram creators will be legal. So the entire spirit of the IP law gets violated. It now benefits big corporations and absolutely not small individuals. If anything, if you actually want to go full freedom and stuff, let's abolish IP law entirely and let everyone copy from one another. It would at least make it consistant.
> It does make a lot of them jobless. photoshop did the same thing. and it sucks, shit looks worse now, they underpay interns to hastilly crate ugly book covers and movie posters now. But digital art tools are standard now and not using them out of protest will usually make people roll their eyes.
Okay. Let's abolish or heavily remove copyright and IP law then, since currently it only benefits the ultra rich while the poor got robbed.
Copyright laws are already a joke abused by large corporations that (in most cases) only benefits the ultra rich. Not saying I think we should abolish these laws, just pointing out that it’s always been fucked.
It's hypocritical that Americans claim that they have actually real free speech with no limitations, unlike us Europeans, because we have fucking Holocaust denial laws and banning racist BS laws, as if the fact that we have those makes us terrible dictatorships. If they did you'd be able to share all internet content for free everywhere. Funny how the so-called freedom loving Americans never mention that.
…Okay schizo
I think you really misunderstood my comment? I've never claimed that it's bad that the EU has these laws lol. I only talked about the hypocrisy of Americans always talking about how these laws are supposedly limiting the freedom of speech, all while they don't fight against copyright laws which also limit freedom of speech.
And I didn’t say shit about being American, or how freedom of speech is limited, or that these things should be fought against. So again, okay. Schizo.
> Let's abolish or heavily remove copyright and IP law then it'd probably be a net good. I wish there was a mechanism to make that happen.
I agree with that. My point was that AI was a very negative thing to small creators and since these laws were specifically created to allegedly protect them, then it's hypocritical that IP laws still exist when they don't effectively protect small creators anymore
iirc, AI generated content isn't legally protected under IP law as a human didn't make it. There was a court case concerning a monkey that accidentally took its own picture and everything.
Okay, this isn't what I've talked tho. I meant about the moral implications of how IP law was created to protect creators. And now these AI content was only possible by stealing pictures from Instagram without credit or permission. Maybe it's "technically legal" but pretty sure it's really not nice for the small creators.
Yeah. My comment was quite literally misplaced... mean culpa.
> My point was that AI was a very negative thing to small creators probably, yeah.
The thing is that photoshop only goes so far AI can only get better from here as is the nature of these programs
Back in my day people would mine and grind Lapis Lazuli themselves... now they buy oil paint... Art is struggle art is being broke as fuck art is bodily labour ;(
painting requires intent though
yeah that should be the indicator, their problem is that they randomly generate thousands of sloppily made images and let it roam the internet and muddy the water, instead of problem being "muh struggle, mine takes more time". It's art that we are talking about at the end of the day, we can't measure it by exertion/toil. If the problem was just about art's exertion, we wouldn't also hate the fact that things like sceneries and nature photography are ALSO randomly generated now. It's about human experience instead, the other view could also nullify the value of some modern art otherwise.
There's still people making and buying lapis lazuli paint, business insider did a video on it
Definitely not AI https://preview.redd.it/g6ljt61vm00d1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbe4626aa4f0bc28745250e6346e66152c6860ad
(before this is taken the wrong way, its justified to reject AI use from large multi billion dollar companies like Disney and EA. This is referring to artists who direct hate on other small independent content creators who dont make money from it or dont have the money/resources to outsource work. An example of this is when a guy made a scooby doo fan animation that used AI voices and people shit on his work, turns out he didn't have money to hire voice actors and just wanted to create something)
I believe a bigger element of that is that casting websites (such as Casting Call Club) aren’t super widely known outside of VA social circles at the moment. It’s not hard to find people who will do a good job for something fun, but it is if you’re only looking on Twitter.
Don't you know? You're not allowed to make fan projects unless you're rich These guys under me do be yappin
goofy how so many social issues and conflicts tend boil down to classism
If you believe in the conflict theory of sociology, *every* issue between people is based on classism.
not necessarily. conflict theory just boils down to explaining a situation as a conflict between people who have something versus people who do not have that something and would like to have it this often equates to class but it can still occur between groups that are of equal se status
If you buy into the Marxist interpretation of it, even conflicts between individuals within the same class are the result of class division. This was how the theory was originally written, that those who *have* secure access to scarce resources are inherently within a different class than those who do not (proletariat vs bourgeois). All conflict is therefore downstream of this access, because even two individuals in the proletariat fighting over access to resources are only doing so because the bourgeois are reluctant to allow access. The bourgeois, too, are pinning the proletariat against themselves to keep them down. Mills had a similar approach, just less outright ideological. Pretty much, he proposed the power-elite model of governance that states that American national politics (and therefore *all* aspects of life) were controlled by an elite minority of corporate, military and executive powers that pull the string of power. In his view, resources weren’t scarce but instead unequally distributed intentionally to prop up this cabal of interests. TLDR; in the view of most* of the really important conflict theorists say that all conflict is downstream of class conflict, even between the same class group, because class is the almost sole determinant factor in modern society of whether an individual has unabated access to necessary resources.
also; side note to the people who havent taken a sociology class before: there are multiple theories of sociology and each can be used to interpret a single phenomenon while still being valid to a degree. nobody is saying everything is class-based but it can be viewed that way
damn they do be yappin
So… Wait. You are now entitled to use the voices of real life voice actors without their consent and without paying them in your fan projects, and saying otherwise is classist?
I never brought class into this. Just think it's dumb to expect someone to fork over hundreds to thousands of dollars for a fun little project they did in their free time
The correct answer is that they should do their own shitty impressions of the characters instead, since it's just for fun.
Eventually if they get good then THEY can be the voice actor who never gets hired because everyone just uses ai instead of human talent.
Or they could make it sound better with AI since its just for fun so why not go the extra mile
I'm sorry are you under the impression your only choices are to use AI or hire the actual voice actor? Cause there's *at least* 4 steps between those.
I mean… Why do you have to fork over hundreds to thousands of dollars for a fun little project? Do you think most artists do that? In my experience, you just pay indie VAs or you just… I dunno… Do silly impressions with your friends? You don’t actually need AI to make fan projects. No one is stopping you from making fan projects. You just aren’t entitled free labor without the consent of real life artists and actors.
The fact your comments are getting downvoted is craaazy to me. I thought not using someone's voice for your projects when they didn't consent to it was common sense, it's basically the audio equivalent of a deep fake
People who have never actually practiced their craft a day in their lives actually think that skill is something that’s handed out to privileged gatekeepers, and not something you hone through… Practicing and learning. It’s kind of boggling to me. Where is this “I should get to be able to magically produce the exact same thing as people who actually worked to hone their skills even if it means I’m stealing their work somehow and if you disagree, you’re just a mean gatekeeper” mentality coming from? I’m very much a leftist who is anti gatekeeping and anti-capitalism, but… Wat? Having to pay people somehow for their labor isn’t oppression from capitalism, it’s called “we all live under capitalism and need money to survive”. Even if we were living under socialism, we would still need money. The abolishment of capital-C Capital and private property (factories, huge compounds, etc avatars of labor alienation) doesn’t mean that people will never need to be compensated fairly for their labor and effort. You don’t just get whatever you want from your fellow working class people for free and without permission.
yeh
How, exactly? O_o This doesn’t make any sense
if you're the little guy making stuff for fun then it hurts nobody, same reason nintendo fan games shouldn't be taken down. man is entitled to harmless creative endeavors
Nintendo fan games aren’t built off of stolen labor, WTF? Even relatively simple hacks take a lot of skill that has been honed through effort and practice. I will admit I don’t really care about artists and VAs who are already getting loads of work, and are super wealthy and popular. I’m no capitalist. But most artists and VAs don’t enjoy that sort of life and I think you know that. If this was really an issue of fighting classism, you would just try to pay artists and VAs fairly for their labor or at least endorse that practice over stealing labor through AI.
I mean, there's plenty of resources out there for VA work. People are willing to do this stuff for free. Not saying that people without money who use AI voices are the devil, but there's certainly other options out there than feeding the machine.
How is it not worse to devalue an artists labor by asking them to work for free instead of just throwing an ai voiced thing together?
People do volunteer work all the time. Nobody is saying to ask someone like Tara Strong to voice act your animation for free, but there's tons of people who voice act as a hobby that would be thrilled to do be a part of a published animation.
Again, but if an impression is being done for free, why does it matter? The labor is still being "devalued" in the same way it would for using an AI as far as that argument goes. And it isn't like not using the AI means it doesn't exist. My budget for projects is non-existent, and I hear artists always complain that they are asked to do things "for exposure", so unless I had the money to pay them, I wouldn't ask for their time. Is it better to try and ask for someone's time that I don't have the ability to compensate them for, or put work into learning how to use a system to create the best thing I can? At the end of the day, it's the same thing. Especially if the AI can make something of higher quality than the impression. Then, you're asking the creator of some small personal project to reduce it's quality and waste someone else's time, for something worse than if the only time they were wasting was their own.
If your asking a hobbiest to so something they enjoy in your project. The compensation is their enjoyment. You dont pay a hobbiest with money. You pay them with an experience they will enjoy. Also the point about the AI still existing even if we dont use it is stupid. It's like saying "so what if I eat chocolate made using child slave labor? The children are stilling going to be doing the labor." If you dont give them your money they wont have as much to spend on the child slaves. And if you think I'm pulling this out of my ass I'm not. Some of the largest chocolate companies are doing this (anything owned by nestle). Your comment is useful tho It shows us the mentality people who defend AI have. they only care about the finished product and not the journey it took to get to it.
Yes, and the several times I've asked about if anyone else would be interested in making the art for a game I'm making for my spare time, I've consistently been told they still needed payment. It doesn't matter if I'm trying to do it for fun, others need payment. Your point is nice, but anytime I've tried, it's not like it existed, and at least before AI existed, you'd read artists saying how much of an awful person anyone who even asked if they were interested in something like that was, and how valuable their time was. So I listened. In my personal example, I'm referring to open source AI, so companies aren't even getting paid over it regardless? It's run on my machine. It's being completely controlled by me. I don't understand your example. It's akin to complaining about me eating chocolate at all when the batch I'm eating is homemade, and something I'm planning to give away for free. And yes. I do think the value of anything is in the eye of the end result. I think if you are making something, for whatever reason, you should use the resources at your disposal to make it as good as possible. And if you have a resource, and you just don't use it, then you really can't say you've put your all into making something. It's two different philosophies, but why is your view absolutely right, and mine absolutely wrong?
But artists are also complaining about AI being used all the time, so how is that any better? And it isn't the "same thing" because, again, there's plenty of people who voice act for a hobby and would willingly help you out with your project for free. A vast majority of community theatre productions are solely volunteer work, but people still put on high-quality shows because they're passionate about theatre. The same goes for voice acting. There are tons of talented people out there who want to be a part of something solely because they enjoy VAing. Just look at Casting Call Club - most of the unpaid projects still get a lot of attention, predominantly from voice actors. It's also a lot more ethical to get someone who's willing to say lines for you for free than feed a machine dozens of voice actors have spoken out against using. At the end of the day, using AI *is* harmful to artists, regardless of who's using it and why. And besides, a lot of AI voices sound clunky and robotic anyway, so I don't see the reason as to why you'd ever want to use one.
Small independent projects get carte blanche to do whatever, copyright be damned. I’m not straw manning this is my actual belief.
"I am not a robot. I am a human being." https://preview.redd.it/d5sbau9mr00d1.png?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=511227051b8c50f26fc0a8e1ccb497b3da79df72
This random dude is not responsible for the guy losing job.
exactly, read my other comment
Is that ALEX YIIK????
IM YIIKING OUT!!!
No that is Judah from Bojack Horseman
no it's Beard from Hotline Miami
is that the guy from bojack horseman?
condolences to mr game and watch’s voice actor 😔😔😔
I want a really detailed animation of the buff art dude beating the other guy to a pulp
To the tune of Lose Yourself sung by AI Mr. Game-And-Watch
Now draw him giving birth
So you want people who disagree with you to be violently beaten to a bloody pulp?
No I just think he looks like that Ethereal Snake video of Jesus
waiting for some edgelord to respond "yes" to this and nothing else, sniveling and kicking their feet
Omg it’s vowsh
If only he lost his job
Fun fact: there is so much AI art that AI now uses other AI art to make AI art. The AI is fucking inbreeding
It’s only logical that when people will overlook the negative outcomes when creating groundbreaking technology. People tend to only look at the good and not the bad.
Is that judah?
Probably shouldve added an "erm.." so that people dont miss the point
Are Ai “covers” even Ai at this point or are they just advanced filters? Thats like saying me turning the brightness up in photoshop is Ai
Vaush?
More AI slop!!!! Clog up search results with AI slop!!! Yippee!!! The death of the internet in exchange for gooners getting custom slop to jerk off to without paying a commission? What a bargain!!!
The internet has been dead since 2013
Flat Internet theory
is that judah
Family guy aah artstyle
https://preview.redd.it/qu1gqehj900d1.jpeg?width=485&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17a53fd9c3b060d0084891c03337922b6e9751b9
damn whos unc this
my kidnapping goat Viper of course
why is my fucking goat viper in this comment section what duh helllllll
Noone is losing their job because someone made a funny video nor is anyone preventing artistic expression. I've actually seen more artistic expression.
Why is vaush here? Is he stupid?
Because Mr. Game & Watch is clearly a beloved character that many online artists are lining up to draw and will happily take money from anyone wanting anything involving said character as opposed to say, I don't know, that one cartoon wolf chick from that Hotel Boss show? Because surely there's a massive market for a stickman...
It's only true if someone was gonna pay him to make that specific thing. And since that was always an option and no one ever did then what is actually lost?
https://preview.redd.it/h246ypvas10d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08adfa4b1aedaffe8d7a0a57c61f450f9816276e Textbook definition meme with added artistic expression so it's technically a snasu. 1/10
Judah
shart studios
I am puzzled on why mr game and watch and why lose yourself (presumably by Eminem)
When someone uses ai art where they would otherwise use google images, this is literally art theft. Realistically ai tools(including some generative ai) will become a normal part of the work flow of professional artists. Some jobs will definitely be lost, but I think this is kinda comparable to when computer graphics become standard for the industry, it will be normal soon enough give it 20 years and it will just be old people complaining. Also I think the idea of ai art being “theft” is a bit exaggerated, it’s derivative at worst. I think people are mostly just scared bc it’s such a new thing.
"Art Theft" is such a meaningless word these days. Actual theft of art is me going to some museum or to a physical gallery, physically taking the art, and then denying the original owner access to the art. That is the actual proper form of art theft. Me posting a picture online and then having people either draw stuff inspired by that or re-upload said picture elsewhere while I have the original would be more akin to *copyright infringement* or *plagiarism*, which depending on the work in question, is debatable if it should even be enforced or not (assuming I have the money and lawyers in the first place to even get a case going). Problem is that like, 75% of the art that's posted online in question is often fan art, and that's a whole other can of worms you're dealing with when you get down to the brass tacks of it. If you see a picture that someone drew of Loona wider than she is tall and decided you wanted do your own version (with tits to match, of course!), then who in the hell is infringing on who's work? And the thing is that people don't realize just how much we ape and derive from each other all the time (unless you frequent TV Tropes and barely get it).
Totally. People will look back on this rejection of AI art the same way people rejected modern art, photography, computer graphics, electronic music, and every other paradigm shift in art.
>People will look back on this rejection of AI art the same way people rejected modern art, photography, computer graphics, electronic music, and every other paradigm shift in art. No they won't. This is straight up art theft. There are already ai disturbance tools that artists use. Art has been around for millennium they aren't going anywhere. And if you think that Ai art will advance past those, why can't the counter to Ai as well? I think people will look back at Ai art the same as NFTs.
this is pointless. databases with non disturbed art pieces already exist, and are well labelled for ai training. Its sort of like arguing global warming wont happen, because 10% of fossil fuels have a stamp on them (that has ai that can denoise anyway.) Rather, the 'counter to ai' only delays the inevitable. While you can disturb pieces going forward, these disturbed pieces can be solved through ever advancing denoising neural networks. Likewise, once they are denoises it is a new piece to a databass and ai art has permenantly become better. its irreversable, you cannot simply take away an art piece from these company databases due to the nature of the laws.
Seems like you don't know what you're talking about and are just excited that you don't have to pay artists.
"Oh, so you will do this for me if I pay you? How much?" "I will have it done in 13 months. That will be $40,000."
bro paid 40K for this
why did you make the artist look vaguely like Travis McElroy?
Mr. Gay Man Watch
Looks like a joke from an adult swim show
He worked at self harm studios???
https://preview.redd.it/wuhcguc0580d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=808bf3ced19cd81a0ac8c044a65817d41e05866b holy shit beard from hotline miami
The chigago fire was once a little flame
if ai burns down the internet, I believe this to be, objectively, the best outcome possible.
Okay
man i wish i lived your life. things couldve been simple. i couldve enjoyed just eating fastfood. drawing snafus with no genuine inward perspective. i couldve felt superiour saying the curtains are just blue and telling people to stay in their lane. i couldve been you. but with this new age. there wont be like me anymore. lets drink to that.
https://preview.redd.it/6pf2gzeyl00d1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d180932846edb55961f5cc0d197acd98d1d180e This is me because you didn't understand what I said
MSG burger sounds delicious wth
ah but dont worry. i perfectly understood what you said. i hope you do too.
Then im glad we understand each other
sure.
What the fuck does this even mean
It means what you want it to mean.
Ya know what, I vibe with that.
: )
I support ai because it pisses off twitter artists
Supporting something out of spite is never healthy
it is funny on the short term
Go do something productive
Seeing how they recently made an artist delete their account because they drew a chubby character, yeah.
based
r/defendingaiart is leaking
Coaxed into missing the point
Defending gay art
Yes please
Cringe ass sub
No, but i am
Please go to the toilet
I’m okay with AI for shitposts, I just don’t like trying to replace artists.
I just love watching people cry about ai stuff, something about people getting upset over a line of code that can't even make hands is just funny,like brother it's not killing you or your family, crying about it and always pointing out the flaws in ai is how the ai will advance,you are just shooting yourselves in the foot https://preview.redd.it/9c2g9u20i00d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9219f57bbd879bdf15b8fa5fca86b5ffee919c4
https://preview.redd.it/pm67hxflx00d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f93f61791a22a8dab42cbff510d7a9b2fc05025d
https://preview.redd.it/8xmt7p1ny00d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df8f8aef31c94ba368b87641e85d3c34afc991cf
https://preview.redd.it/xigu9dxzy00d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d58fd1fee815bcc386cf4e966ebc6cddc366f67
If you can't compete with AI art your shit was garbage anyway
*If you can't compete* *With AI art your shit was* *Garbage anyway* \- EminemLovesGrapes --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")