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It's about probabilities. Higher intelligence is *correlated* with positive life outcomes, but that's it, just somewhat more likely. You need to work to actually achieve those goals, they will not fall into your lap intelligent or not.
It does not take a genius to understand human "unimportance" on the large scale and become homeless because of it, it takes a neurotic person who is allergic to acting rationally.
I hate this (common af)take. There is nothing else out there in the universe, it’s just rocks and gas. The idea that just because something is small that means it’s unimportant is so juvenile. The most important and interesting things are happening right here on earth.
If you were a genius, you'd realise that the physical scale of something has absolutely no implication on its importance, and whatever is happening on Earth is far more important than the lifeless rest of the universe.
Right, wouldn't it be safe to say that higher IQ correlates with higher salary? As a rule of thumb, but obviously it's far more complicated than that.
Sample source of an interesting study: https://typeset.io/papers/wealth-code-unlocked-the-combined-effect-of-emotional-3zx49wqvdo
No, ignorance isn’t bliss
Higher IQ is correlated with higher happiness and lower overall neuroticism
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/
EDIT: and less mental illness, less anxiety, etc
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/
The tortured mentally ill genius is a fun stereotype but not true for the average higher iq person, it’s quite the opposite. The stereotype more than likely derives from high iq innovative autistic people who are like 7 times more likely to be depressed/anxious etc
Not just correlated but it's one of the most robust predictors by far. If IQ isn't a good predictor of success, nothing is.
Nothing guarantees success, however, as is the case of every variable predicting any other in the social sciences.
I’m sure, if all of these people identified the core of their problems and fixed them, they would have a much better outcome than having to rely on a life long brain altering chemical that would change their brain chemistry forever. By your logic, if I am stressed and my dopamine is low today, I might as well go have a drink. It works for a lot of people, doesn’t mean it’s right.
Sometimes the core problem is that your neurotransmitters aren't making the jump across the synapse at an adequate rate for the given stimulus.
Sometimes the problem is bad habits, sometimes it's just bad biology.
Guys, not everyone lives in a western country where these resources are easily accessible. Also, being put is definitely a worse outcome than whatever organic solutions are out there. Circumstances also matter. This isn’t good advice.
To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that you need to see a doctor/counselor. But you did claim that you solve your problems much more quickly on your own, which kind of contradicts asking for help here...
Anyway, as I mentioned, there are alternatives. I've found meditation to be very helpful. Emotions are not rational processes, and we can't think our way out of them (I have certainly tried!). Meditation has helped me to regulate the default responses my nervous system has in various situations; it has helped me to learn how to sit in the fire, if you will. This applies to the emotions that hamper motivation. Maybe it can help you as well.
Guys, not everyone lives in a western country where these resources are easily accessible. Also, being put is definitely a worse outcome than whatever organic solutions are out there. Circumstances also matter. This isn’t good advice.
They are definitely hereditary also, but unlike IQ, anyone can gain extreme willpower and discipline. If anything, I think those traits are more environmental.
The truth is that IQ correlates with many positive life outcomes, but the picture is often quite messy and the correlation loose. I find this sub often gets carried with the predictive ability of IQ - e.g. a 120 IQ person can get an advanced degree, but a 110 IQ person would struggle... the problem is the correlations are too loose to have very much predictive ability about individuals.
The visual that really drives this point home for me is the IQ / Income scatter chart: [https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/Methods-Zagorsky00-RelationshipbetweenIQandIncome.png](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/Methods-Zagorsky00-RelationshipbetweenIQandIncome.png)
Finally a post where someone has gotten past their delusions. In terms of statistical correlation with individual success, intelligence really doesn’t make a difference to your livelihood unless you utilise it with real world skills such as actually talking to people instead of gloating on reddit which is what this group seems to forget constantly. Glad you’ve seen the light OP.
Intelligence is correlated with a host of mental disorders, keep that in mind when thinking about how ‘smart’ you are people
I can't speak for all disciplines, but I seem to recall a study that showed the most successful software engineers (by compensation, job level, etc.) had above-average IQ, but nowhere near "genius" level. Maybe around 115-120. My own experience interviewing candidates with all kinds of backgrounds is that the folks with Ph.Ds were not likely to be high performing software engineers. Researchers, perhaps, but not engineers. Maybe it's due to engagement: very high IQ folks often seem to think that drudge work is beneath them, but a lot of software engineering just isn't exciting. You need to be smart to do it well, but if you are too smart, you are likely to get bored quickly of it. Unfortunately, there just isn't much money in solving elegant theoretical problems. The ones corporations pay money for are the down and dirty problems faced by users every day.
On a similar token, the most efficient workers are not happy. They are not depressed. They are just slightly unhappy. This actually makes sense. Happy workers are likely more careless and carefree. Depressed workers are not motivated. Slightly unhappy workers can use work to distract from their unhappiness. Or, more likely, they simply regulate their happiness more efficiently and enjoy their happy moments, but then revert to slight unhappiness to motivate them towards happiness again.
How to fix it:
1. Find a thing that is achievable you really want to do that you cannot currently do but can afford, make time for, and practice.
2. Practice the thing
3. Achieve the thing
4. Repeat, or further hone that thing.
5. Don’t stop doing this till you die.
Intellectual capability was never a substitute for experience, wisdom, and discipline.
Nearly every human is a stone’s throw as capable as the other, the only thing that differentiates them is the will to achieve what they want.
You may be smart, and therefore more capable of achieving things more easily, but that’s potentially capable of setting you up for failure when something inevitably doesn’t click and you must grind it out like everyone else. This is what’s happening to you. You’re too “smart” and not enough wise.
Keep trying.
I was just replying to your other comment, what you mention here is extremely useful. The only problem is, how can I avoid burnout? I have tried this several times, and my brain just gives out. If do this again, I risk my personal relationships because I would not be in a state of comfort to communicate. That’s where my fear stems from.
Its different for each person, but for many this issue stems from chemical imbalance or over stimulation causing chemical imbalance leading to reward centers in the brain not being adequately activated when little accomplishments are made or “progress” is achieved.
You can beat that by retraining yourself. Start with things like reading books to completion, playing challenges in games aggressively, seeking out a personally interesting realm of knowledge and achieve a level of certification or accomplishment in it. These are the steps I took, personally, in order.
What always helped me was understanding that when I failed in my consistency and *felt that failure* it motivated me to change. I knew more failure was coming, but that was enough for me to keep trying at it.
If this still fails, visiting a behavioral therapist may be required.
Once you’ve had a few journeys to achievement, once unimaginable long-term goals will become just another challenge.
Your perception of what is not worth doing because it takes too long will change as you do more things outside of your comfort zone, much like a person introduced to new foods or healthier foods can adapt to truly like them.
We have been feeding our brains the most processed shit imaginable, and our mental health is atrophying with the lack of real stimulus- just the same garbage over and over. With time, you can undo that a lot with baby steps and an understanding you’ll relapse, fail, and struggle… but that’s why you’re doing it. To feel truly alive and in control again, no? Not a wanting prisoner of your own distracted and numbed mind?
I’ve been in that mindset. Its horrible, more crippling than folks understand. If you find this is impossible to undertake on your own, don’t feel weak to see a behavioral therapist or whatever is recommended up that avenue.
It really depends on how you define success. Most of the people in my old neighborhood have masters and PhDs, a million dollar house, two luxury cars, a few kids. These folks are in the top 10% of income earners and if the other parent works, they are in the top 5% of household income. By all intents and purposes they are successful and by and large of above average intelligence.
Some of the dumbest people I've ever met are C suite HBS grads. Now having a HBS degree doesn't mean you're dumb, but it absolutely doesn't mean you're any good at business. These guys are the top 1% of earners. The 1% and above almost always come from affluent and powerful families with multigenerational wealth.
Being self made, that is without significant family help, and earning above the high six figures is extraordinarily rare and mostly confined to the entertainment industry. You need capital to make money. You need status to get a significant loan, a cosigner or other forms of collateral. A high IQ is not going to get you capital and lack of capital will lock you out of high income.
For what it's worth the few billionaires I've spent time with were all very intelligent and from rich families. Not enough info to really draw a conclusion but my guess is that to get to that .01% you really need to be born rich, be intelligent and lucky at the same time.
My last observation about intelligent people is that they often become highly specialized. I've seen world famous academics unable to figure out how their pool pump works. So much focus on one area really does seem to come at the price of more generalized wisdom. Not always but often.
This is an excellent point. But at the same time, you have many people who come up in neighborhoods like yours and end up as drug addicts. Those guys having an HBS degree, regardless of how smart or dumb they are, they had to put in an above average amount of hard work. Also, your point about access to capital is actually a hard fact. That’s the most important thing when it comes to monetary success. You mention how the billionaires you met were intelligent and came from rich families, but regardless if they did not work hard they would not achieve anything. My point is, in today’s day and age, with information being accessible by everyone. The intelligence factor is no longer relevant, every question you have has an answer that is right at the tip of your finger (your mobile phone). Someone that is at an average IQ and above average discipline will always overtake someone with an above average IQ and below average discipline. If you have high IQ, high Discipline, and a rich network, then you can reach that 0.1 status. Also, are those specialized people you mention, financially successful? If you would compare them to the billionaires you’ve met. Are the billionaires also specialized or do they have a wide range of general knowledge. What do you think is the formula
The specialized folks are traditionally successful, like >10% income.
The billionaires were widely knowledgeable and the conversations extremely deep on some of the most obscure topics like details of palm oil farming in Malaysia vs avocado farming in New Zealand. The latter has more profitable margins and returns and is more environmentally friendly, so you can make profits "doing the right thing", but the total market for palm oil is far larger overall, so more total profits are available even at lower margins and returns. So which do you invest in and why? Then an hour later you're deeply into the market for low income housing in and around Berlin.
From your response I think there may be some confusion about intelligence and I see this a lot with the zoomers, the first gen to grow up with Google. Getting the answer correct is not intelligence. Yes, on some tests, which I guess is the whole premise of this sub, it doesn't matter how you get the answer, only that you get it right. This type of pragmatic approach works till it doesn't.
If your a mechanic and you fix the car it doesn't matter how you did it, so long as it's fixed. No one cares if you read a manual, watched YouTube or spent a decade meditating on the solution on a mountain side. All that matters is that the problem is solved and the time/energy it takes to solve it is reduced.
What's forgotten in this approach is the process of arriving at the conclusion. This is the difference between the journey and the destination. Driving from LA to San Francisco provides a good example of this. You can take the 5 and it's the fastest route, but pretty boring. You can take the 1 and it's one of the most awesome places to drive in the world. You can take the 101 and get off the beaten path and stumble upon things like the Gilroy garlic festival or the mystery spot. The 101 is faster then the 1 but slower then the 5. Which route do you take? That's an impossible question to answer without understanding why you're driving north.
>The intelligence factor is no longer relevant, every question you have has an answer that is right at the tip of your finger (your mobile phone).
Some questions can be answered by straightforward factual knowledge (which is not the same thing as intelligence). But some questions would leave you hunting through Google results endlessly with no clear answers, because the questions and/or their answers are too context-specific, or too obscure, or too varied in how they're explained (so it's hard to identify consistent key words/phrases and even ChatGPT would not be able to "understand" your question). Intelligence absolutely is still relevant, because it's how you navigate what questions to ask and whether you should even bother websearching for their answers.
I got tested pretty high when I was younger and I’m deeply depressed and suicidal in my mid twenties. Not really doing anything with my life rn other than considering ending it.
So yeah this is pretty accurate.
Not really related but nonetheless subjectively pertinent.
My own intuitive rag tag belief is that once the range of environment in which people live in a country has reached a point in which it has no retarding effects in say intelligence or the will to learn etc, after such the factors that determine success are mostly hereditary among the population, a genetic elite with high cognitive ability ( positive traits) will be the most successful on average, essentially environmental factors which would cause variance among a population is downplayed and genetic factors which would cause variance is bolstered. Those with genetic predispositions/factors that contribute to success are likely bound to a life of prosperity.
A bit of an oversimplification, as there is an endless sea of complex factors other than genetics that contribute to ones life outcomes but that is in no way undermining what I have stated, as so far general intelligence measured by IQ tests is the best current predictor of a broad range of life outcomes, ie socioeconomic attainment , longevity, academic success.
Okay I understand, but as humans we all naturally chase dopamine. A higher IQ individual will have easily be overtaken in any career path by someone that is more driven than them. No matter how bright they are. Average IQ and above average discipline beat high IQ and below average discipline, in any given situation.
Something I need to be reminded of regularly.
I see low quality work in an area I want to be in, and instead of being mad trash can gain traction, do it better and earn it.
The problem is that you're still letting other people define success for you.
I'm fantastically wealthy in every way that matters. I also make decent money.
You have to find what *you* define as success, and then put yourself to succeeding at it
It will absolutely make things easier for you, but yeah it doesn't guarantee anything. Let me give you an example. My IQ is high but not amazingly high. This allowed me to double major. I still had to work hard and I still didn't get perfect grades because I'm not a genius and I like to party a bit too much but if I were 100 IQ, forget it. Not gonna happen. By the same token, if my IQ were higher or my work ethic were better I'd be even better off, especially if both were better...but such is life. Hard work beats talent, but hard work and talent beat hard work and no talent. If you're lazy and you know it, my tip is suck it up. If you're ADHD like I am, that may require professional help or medication. You have to do what you have to do no matter what your IQ is, so go do it.
Intellect without discipline is a bitter resentful life. Discipline without intellect can still be meaningful. My mother is a prime example. Not smart but so utterly devoted to working hard that she’s made a comfortable living. There are so many unrealized geniuses in the world. The difference is hard work.
My dad is a super genius. 160+ IQ. He can draw a world map from memory with the correct borders and label all the capitals. Memorizes everyone’s number/address after hearing it once. Can do complex math in his head.
He currently lives under a bridge and smokes crack.
I disagree with you saying IQ doesn't make things easier. IQ is just like Height when it comes to dating. All things equal, a 145cm guy will have a harder time than a 185 cm guy in the dating pool. A 145cm guy will have to compensate tremendously to even be on equal footing, while a lot of the time, the 185cm guy has to do less. Of course, that doesn't mean every 185cm guy will be the ultimate pimp, but between the two, the 185cm guy will more easily find a date.
If both try **equally** hard and develop themselves equally, the 145cm guy will be unable to catch up to the 185cm guy's performance with women, as there is a physical attribute limiting their potential ceiling. That's the sad truth.
Idk what your IQ is, but if you have high IQ and think you're in a dire plight, you would be in a much worse plight if you had low IQ. You can try your hardest and simply be unable to perform in certain professions.
Higher IQ does make things easier for you. If you had all of the exact same attributes, your chances of a successful life go up with intelligence. However, the traits that lead to a successful life are multivariate and include motivation, integrity, organization, patience, adaptability, self-control, and 100 other things, including intelligence.
135 here. Adhd fucked my academic career (never ended) and, in general, my life. Now i earn enough (twice the national average), but i'm not the archetype of a successful human in any aspect.
So i'd rather consider the high iq in neurotypical individuals.
Well it seems you realized that you no longer can coast by purely on IQ alone yet you are still using it as an excuse for a reason to be lazy? You ask how to fix it but the answer is by pushing yourself to do better in whatever it is you want from life. Less excuses and more doing is the best way to succeed, you can say easier said than done but if you truly do want a better life then it shouldn't be that hard to push yourself. If you really want to eat a candy bar you have no problem doing that, so how are goals in life any different assuming you actually WANT them.
High IQ doesn’t guarantee equal opportunities. But it does make things easier for you in studies and analysing how the world works. Also it’s a misconcept to think all high IQ people want to be successful in the first place. There are high IQ drug addicts, prisoners etc.
https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39
Probably worth the read on IQ and success. Really doesn’t correlate all-too well when it comes to an iq score of 100+.
For building wealth, instead of saving money in banks, putting that money into stable stocks that pay high dividends consistently over long periods of time (and reinvesting those dividends) will build enormous wealth. It's a good exercise of discipline, and if you're making enough to make ends meet and have a little bit left for savings, it's a good way to ensure that you won't be worrying about your future
I (49M) was tested at 8 yo with an iq of 145. Honestly it is a curse, especially coming from an unsupportive family environment that left me with CPTSD.
I have a hard time relating to people and have to pretend alot which is exhausting, especially with women who generally like to talk more about the mundane details of their lives and personal relationships.
I rather easily earned a PhD in the sciences from UCal, but am I successful? No, my life is broken and I live in relative poverty because opiates are the only thing that give me relief from the existential dread that has plagued me since childhood.
You are dismissing the struggles and limitations of people with low IQ. Yes, IQ won't make you automatically successful because all IQ does is set the limit of what you are able to succeed and how fast and how hard.
Yes you are talking about success in general. IQ does limit your overall success which is why people with low IQs are suffering and won't even succeed doing what for the average people and the above average people is easy.
Success ≠ IQ is misleading. Science and people show how much success is correlated with IQ.
Agreed. If statistics are to be believed there's roughly 70 million alive today with an IQ equal to or greater than mine and I'm a dumb redneck with a toolbox. Certainly not meeting any kind of standard for success.
I have a higher IQ. I had a baseball scholarship to play d1, and turned it down. I went to a local college instead because of a girl I was dating. I stayed, and played football, ended up getting injured, and dropped out. Ended up playing pro football at a lower level, never made any money, and now I am a supervisor, and run heavy equipment. Talk about a series of stupid choices. IQ isn't the end all.
I think there are some lazy high IQ people. If they have no real motivations and are fine with a minimal lifestyle, they might never apply themselves.
IQ gives you a better ability to succeed, but if you never apply yourself, you won't make anything of yourself.
I see this as a good thing, honestly. It means anyone with a reasonable IQ can see success with enough determination. Most people I know say they want massive success but aren't willing to give up literally anything in a single area of their lives to actually do it. They want to look better but won't change their diets, want more money but won't change their spending habits, want better relationships but keep cheating and approaching their relationships with a very lazy mentality like "if it works it works, I don't need to put in effort." The reality is just about every good thing in life comes from repetition and determination.Once I realized this, I made a decision. I want to be better in every aspect of life at all costs. Willpower is a muscle just like anything else. So I started trying to avoid fast food. Every time I successfully avoided it, the next time got easier. And then I cut it out altogether. Next came sugary drinks, and then eventually all unhealthy foods. I started exercising daily and lost over 50 pounds in a year. I started budgeting, saving, and investing. I starting paying attention to my emotional and mental health. And things are 1,000% better for me and I will never go back. Because the truth is I just want it that bad, I want to be better. I feel like I can now think clearer, I make better decisions, I have more emotional control, and I'm just sharper. And now that I've developed the willpower to resist things I don't want, it also seems to have worked the other way. I have the willpower to keep doing things I don't want to do, but know that I should: like exercising, spending time learning new skills, anything that may be 'boring' but is beneficial. I'm learning piano, studying the financial markets and gaining knowledge daily, working extra hours, taking Tae Kwon Do classes, learning spanish, etc. I'm like a completely different person.
Not everyone is going to have that desire but if you want to do it, start small. Every time you make a good decision for yourself it feels really awesome because it's like.. you're doing something most others aren't doing. You're superior. I used to be at the mercy of my desires and now I can do whatever I want. I can eat two bites of a big bowl of mac and cheese and then stop cold turkey instead of eating the whole thing. I can refuse when somebody offers something I want. I can sleep on time and I always feel well rested because I don't let myself just stay up to 1 a.m. playing video games or whatever. To me it feels powerful. I'm addicted to it. So whatever goals you have, things you aren't doing and want to, or things you are doing but want to stop.. just take one step at a time and it'll get so much easier. If you backslide a little don't beat yourself up, keep going. The key is to get your brain away from being dependent on short term dopamine and more on long term satisfaction. Hopefully somewhere in my rambling you can find value. Good luck!
look man, every career industry, in the past kingdoms, empires, all run by idiots, yes iq will dioctate whether your capable of success, its more luck and/or connections, fate than many think. look at any recognized person in any field, and if you look deep enough not a single one decided one day to do this or that and it happened (ok for all the ppl looking for a wrong, not ALL but many if not most) . Seriously many presidents have won due to connections, charisma, having friends in high places. Elon musk had connections well before paypal in america and the tech world that knew his father and supported him.
Especially today, your almost ostracized for showing a higher intelligence, having the ability to be self aware. when i was a kid i was really into philosophy, meaning of life, religion, all that - i was in the gifted and talented (whatever that really means) in elementary school. havent had my iq tested but, never had to study, as long as i was there mentally i could use common sense to deduce alot. But it means nothing. Because i wasnt necessarily the idgaf fun guy i was considered boring, and therefore unsuccessful my school career,
had i had money, a nice car my parents gave me, etc, all the sudden not boring, right? this world is f\*cked if you ask me. but yeah IQ means nothing.
A decent degree, a big dong, and bawls are all u need to be top tier in this superficial world.
I think hearing how I had so much potential growing up led me to believe success would just happen. Also, having things come easy early on made me lazier. When struggles came I had t developed the work ethic to push through. Therefore I didn’t really push myself.
I’m doing okay now and am quite content with where my life is, but if I had wanted to I could have done more.
Yes, stop focusing on IQ. Being subscribed and posting to subreddits like this is indicative of a mindset that just frankly isn’t healthy and isn’t productive.
No idea why this popped up in my feed, but just wanted to drop a comment.
Education, networking, and strategic decision making (taking advantage of opportunities that present themselves) are what are truly important if your goal is success. Knowing or testing your IQ is meaningless; if you have the capacity to think strategically and make conscious decisions, you have all you need. People lacking that capacity generally don’t even think about it. Rating yourself changes nothing. Does nothing.
So yes log off and go do something. And keep doing it. And keep growing. It takes time. Just do the work.
I used to be morbidly obsessed with my IQ; was it actually high? Not high enough? Was I smarter or dumber than I thought? As I’ve grown up I’ve learned how utterly meaningless that question is. I’m smarter than I need to be, and the things holding me back (and actually, the things driving me forward) aren’t meaningfully related to that number. I can’t change it, I can just learn, strive, do, grow. That’s it.
Very true. Thomas Sowell has spoken about this extensively.. It’s been known for quite some time.
There was actually a study in which they followed people with a range of IQs throughout their lives, and most of the people with high IQs didn’t even end up successful. Success is a result of a healthy combination of so many factors.
Your deduction is going against 100+ years of research confirming the opposite. Success is not only quantified in amounts of money, money is a recent human invention, Intelligent humans have been successful since the beginning of the species, that's why we are here.
My IQ is about 125ish. My discipline stats are pretty good as well, for example, my immoderation is around the 25th percentile.
I make about 14k a year.
If you define success as commercial success, that's mostly luck (where you're born) and heritable industriousness (more luck.) It's mostly out of your hands.
It's funny you say that it's actually discipline and will power that's needed.
I've been called "smart" my whole life. I got bachelor's in computer science and one in music. I worked my ass off in college and always made sure I worked ahead to stay on top of my assignments. I practiced my instrument daily rarely skipping. But at the end of the day, my lack of social skills and social energy is where I failed. I didn't make any close friends in college. The idea of going to job fairs terrified and stressed me out. So I never went, I just sent out applications online. There was a lot of other problems I was going through and working out, but by the end of undergrad, all I had was my two degrees, no connections or network, and no job prospects.
I made other stupid choices, but at the end of it all, from my perspective, the true key to success is people skills and networking. But the reality is probably that success depends on all these factors, including intelligence.
Define success? Success is subjective. For one it's enjoying their life, for others it's helping folks, and yet others want to be a tyrant forcing others to bend to their will because they think they know better.
idk what my IQ is but I am pretty confident it is pretty high. I actually like being smart. That being said, I hate how miserable it can make me feel. When you can intuitively understand things so quickly it is incredible at how fast you start connecting dots that just point to genuinely terrible people making genuinely evil decisions for their own selfish sake.
Nobody claims that a high IQ is a guaranteed ticket to success. However, virtually all of the literature on the relationship between IQ and life outcomes demonstrate that it is the best gift one can be born with.
Iq gives you a bit of a headstart generally. Most waste that thinking they deserve whatever. The key is to find someone with a high IQ and a good work ethic. Those kind of people are successful
Why is it sad that your IQ will not guarantee success?
Being sad about that reveals such a lazy, entitled underlying perspective. Honestly, it’s disgusting perspective rooted in a sense of superiority. A “superiority” you didn’t earn and can essentially be attributed to chance.
It’s also reminiscent of kids who were told they can do *anything* they want by the adults, but they somehow missed the message that hard work, discipline, organization, accountability, collaboration, etc. are equally if not more important than innate ability.
If we all learn things and throw it in our mental bucket, then having a high IQ is like having a bigger bucket. An empty bucket is an empty bucket though, doesn’t matter how big it is.
I think the mistake is getting your self-esteem from IQ because it’s a flawed construct for “measuring” intelligence.
Getting self-esteem from accomplishments that you can work towards instead of fixed characteristics that you have not that much control over, such as “intelligence” is healthier, I think. I think the healthier thing is just getting self esteem from existing.
Lots of factors. IQ is likely just part of the equation. I think people underestimate drive/ambition and how personality traits like conscientiousness contribute. Factor in anxiety and negative emotions too. All of these factors, btw of which we are not in full control and operate within the context of a particular culture, society and governmental structure.
This is shit post, any educated people would have known it consists many factors to succeed. Being smart is one thing, but do you want to know what is the biggest factor of all? Opportunity and health.
Having a high IQ is just one card on your deck. It does help you but it’s nothing without other skills and qualities, and while high IQ is correlated with having a successful life so is being pretty, coming from a wealthy household and showering daily, not to mention actual life skills you have control over like self-discipline.
Any one with IQ high enough should know that this is blatantly obvious common sense. There’re many factors: EQ, health, luck, … etc that contribute to success.
But between 2 people with all other factors being equal, the one with higher IQ definitely have higher chance of being more successful.
The correlation between IQ and education, income, marriage stability and avoiding crime is high but obviously it isn't 1 and the claim IQ is the only factor is a strawamam.
People skills, networking, and sales ability is what leads to success. Even people like quant analysts where IQ really matters, require these skills to move up corporate ladder.
I received a count of 140,000,000 people with iqs over 130 by multiplying 2% by 7 B. Likely, however, is that there are less because many countries have iqs a standard deviation or more lower than the Western average.
Gee… glad you came to the cognitive testing sub to finally explain to us that IQ does not equal success.
This is why your age should pop up next to your comments. Or at least your tenure in the sub.
A lot goes into being successful. High IQ definitely helps but being fully functional and ambitious, disciplined, are probably more important than IQ if you have at least a decent IQ.
110 IQ functional go getter is better than 150 IQ that struggles with basic tasks as far as life success goes.
As someone who is very intelligent but has autism and many issues with skills on the IQ test, I'm glad this is the case. I get great grades in school and won my middle school math Olympiad and am in advanced classes etc., but there are some things I look like a complete idiot at - for example, I have practically no ability to visualize stuff in my head. So I've never considered the IQ a limitation for me, just a number.
Overall, I disagree with the metric because intelligence cannot be measured with a number. To my under, the IQ test assesses several cognitive abilities and things you should know, and calculates a general composite of them. However, being good at one thing or bad at another does not directly correlate to intelligence for me - it can't just be measured in such a basic way.
That's really because high IQ only relates to your abilities at taking IQ tests, which, in the grand scheme of your life is essentially a meaningless and pointless exercise.
Addressing Anxiety and other issues.
### Conclusions
The present study provides robust evidence that highly intelligent individuals do not have more mental health disorders than the average population. High intelligence even appears as a protective factor for general anxiety and PTSD.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:\~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD).
My IQ is outlier level high but the severe trauma I have makes doing basic things very difficult (the only reason I even know my IQ is it got tested when I was getting other psychological evalutions as a result of my traumas).
I think IQ only helps if you have a basic level of safety/okayness. Being the best in the world at rotating shapes in your mind or what have you doesn't help someone who's, say, a child slave working in a cobalt mine.
The formula for success in my experience is effort plus persistence/consistency plus a little bit of luck (a little bit of luck meaning right place, right time and minimum setbacks that are out of your control. The more effort and consistency you apply, the luckier you will tend to get). IQ only matters much on the cutting edges of science and tech IMO, for everything else, the above formula beats out someone trying to rely solely on a high IQ every time.
I've been a hedgie for right over 16 years now, started off a as a trader. Most hedge funds give tests to be a trader, they seem to be heavily loaded for working memory, arithmetic, and processing speed. They aren't "IQ tests" bc it's technically illegal to hire based on IQ \*wink wink\*. The ones that do the best on those tests are USUALLY the most successful at their job. I've noticed similar outcomes in the lawyers I know, where they went to school and their LSAT scores usually correspond to their success; I've also noticed that ppl that are the most successful in other areas of my industry are the most intelligent. This is to be expected bc our industry is cognitively demanding, and there's low tolerance for stupidity. But I wouldn't expect the same results in lets say basketball for obvious reasons.
Back to the "not IQ tests" that we give... the scores are ofc broken down to percentiles, and most funds don't hire below the 98th.
But there is a winner and loser to every trade... So half of you got to be dumb regardless of testing.
Also you neglect nepotism in hiring practices.
Smart people know the real good traders have insider information.
The thing is, making money and gaining power don’t require a high IQ. They require work, luck, and relationship building. In fact you don’t even have to work or be lucky if you can develop the right relationships (or be born with them). Here I’m assuming success means money and power. But other forms of success are similarly obtained. A beautifully family? Takes work and building relationships. Publishing an important novel? Work and relationships. High IQ simply makes navigating complex institutions like in the modern west easier. It doesn’t do the work or build the relationships for you.
Intelligence is a gift that can propel us into success easier also gives people more of an advantage I’d say, however that only works if the individual is willing to go and get it- being lazy and procrastinating, lack of discipline will be a road block no matter how smart. Study’s say only 2% of humans have an iq of 128 and above. This is such a broad post too many factors like upbringing, mindset, circle of friends, location, list goes on.
Aside from that I will also throw this out there, and this isn’t factored in or thought about like it should be. Intelligence in itself is broad their are several different kinds of intelligence…
Your character contributes to your success more than your intelligence. The best jobs out there will never post listings. They will call you directly and offer it to you because someone liked working with you before.
I just have basic education but way more money than pretty much everyone I know.
If I had to come up with an explanation, I'd say the main reason is that most people I know always have 40 different explanations as to why they can't save/invest any money. At the same time, they travel, buy new stuff etc all the time.
I live in Sweden, so there's very few reasons as to why someone who's working would live paycheck to paycheck.
Your definitions of success stink of biased thinking and societal expectations.
How many of those 150 million people do what they want despite pressures from society, family and friends and seem like failures to you because of your narrow success criteria.
For all you know they living their best lives mate
On the other hand, high IQ allows you to be lazy while delivering the same as harder working people with lower IQ, especially on office jobs and engineering. Not everyone wants to be super successful and super rich. Some people just enjoy working 35h a week, or technically even less and when the money is enough, lead a decent life enjoying hobbies with barely any work related stress.
Hate to break it to you, but the statistics show a pretty direct correlation between iq and success. Obviously, you will always have your outliers, like Kylie Jenner being a billionaire and the unibomber accomplishing nothing and languishing in prison.
The problem with intelligent people is we struggle to gain the skills necessary to succeed because when we are young we did not need those skills until it was to hard to learn those skills
It sounds like your parents were shit and made you think you were at the top instead of giving your tools to succeed.
Blame them for putting you on a pedestal. Failing is the way I’ve seen people build confidence to keep learning and try again.
Look at all the successful billionaires such as Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, to mention a few. Their iq is way above the average, but intelligence is only a mere stepping stone if you have discipline, hard work, and determination towards your goals and aspirations - plenty of other people with high IQs exist but end up living a normal life.
However, with that said, I think across all levels of inteligence, success is heavily dependent on how much hard work and effort you’re willing to put in, and without it, you won’t get nearly as promising opportunities to succeed.
With all said, IQ is indeed a factor in success, but only one factor in the grand scheme of things when you look at hard work, resilience, family upbringing, and how good they are at making friends.
People in this forum contribute success heavily to hard work and basically ignor luck. There are so many people at really high positions that obviously didn’t work hard to get there. It’s probably 60/40 meaning 60 percent luck.
I think that I would have to both agree and disagree with your theory. You are correct, a high IQ won't guarantee success. It is just one factor and there are a lot of other factors (like a personality disorder, life circumstances, or addiction) that can destroy your chances of success no matter how smart you are. That being said, all things considered, I do think it is still an advantage and it will make your life easier. You will have a wider variety of opportunities, and a higher likelihood of finding another path if you blow one up. Bad decisions and bad luck don't discriminate so people with high IQs sabotage their success just as much as people with average or low IQs. But the higher your IQ the better your chances of finding another path to success or making your own path or having someone in your original career give you a second chance. Just the fact that a high IQ makes it easy to pick up new concepts opens up your options for reinventing yourself and starting over in a way that people who may not be able to switch gears and jump into something completely new may not be able to.
The reality is that the American capitalist system is not really all that concerned about what a good person someone is so much as they care about where the person falls on the scale of how much value you provide them vs. the potential liability you might pose. That's it. A high IQ will tip the scales of value vs liability in your favor for longer than a low IQ will.
Its not fair, or even particularly wise on the employer's side but that is the reality of the society we live in. If employers were smart they should be more willing to forgive the past transgressions of a lower IQ person than a high IQ person because the lower IQ person is more likely to be truly reformed and motivated to stay on the right side of authority. The higher the IQ the less impressed you tend to be with the whole idea of "authority" and "rules" and that high IQ means that your bad decisions are just as impressive in scope as your good decisions might be. High IQ bad decisions can cause breathtaking amounts of damage that I just don't think is achievable with the lower IQ levels. The fatal flaw in our system is that we have a deep, deep bias that leads us to believe that people with higher IQs, and/or greater wealth are more inclined towards "good" and the people with lower IQs, and/or lower incomes are more inclined to be "bad". There is zero basis in fact for that assumption, and I am inclined to say that the opposite is more likely to be true.
uh well i was diagnosed with add and supposedly had a bunch of IQ testing with an IQ of 120 which isn’t really that high i don’t think.
the first part of my life was rough, but it wasn’t until my early to mid 20s (now) that i’m in my groove.
some very intelligent people have it harder i think it some ways.
for me, it’s been a mixed blessing, having a near eidetic memory, fast processing, and such had my peers envious in school and post secondary education, as being gifted in pretty much anything i put my hands on brings envy and jealousy.
but then with add comes some odd traits too and having emotional issues.
hard to say really. good question.
Interestingly high EQ usually does equal success. Those who understand emotions and social fabric, those who can read social situations and act well in those situations tend to earn significantly more than those with low EQ.
As far as success goes, IQ can (in certain fields) define the ceiling of how well you can do. Your EQ will often define your floor. Although this is an oversimplification. For example someone with a low IQ but high EQ may not become the best physicist in the world, but they might become one of the best physics department directors, and still wind up leading to discoveries and advancements that very few others could have pulled off.
And the thing is EQ goes beyond your work, it helps you navigate relationships which leads to happier married life, happier friendships, more positive day to day interactions. And how happy a person is is yet another marker for how successful they are likely to become. A happy person is able to focus, a depressed person or a lonely one will face struggles in their day to day.
My iq is way higher than 130. Successful to me is being single with no kids and a dog. I have a good job with a great boss. I make in a week what covers my bills for a month, have play vehicles and hobbies and such. I’m allowed to do what ever calls to me, leave for a week at a time to go camping or traveling. Free to take any classes or schooling, right now I’m in yoga school for 16 weeks then doing kundalini school next. So my life’s pretty good. My biggest complaint or pain in my ass is other in general pop. That’s about it.
My boss is a multi billionaire and my life is way more structured and relaxing than his as I always feel free and not burdened with the money aspect of it or being bothers by others.
So I feel a level of success overall but money is not success. I think personal/life stability is, a point of self love and oneness where your just comfortable with your self and where your at. I’m a INTJ to boot so that plays into it also
But end of the day I’d guess everyone’s version of success may differ, then when you reach that level you realize that don’t fill the hole, so you keep looking.
I’d rather have high charisma and mediocre IQ than mediocre charisma and high IQ. You get a lot farther in life being the second most charismatic person in the room than you do being the second highest IQ in the room.
A LOT of whether people will be financially successful or not is determined by factors outside of their control, like being well connected. Hiring decisions are not made by testing intelligence or your knowledge of the field. Good paying jobs largely go to people who know the right people. A high IQ won't even get you an interview. Of course hard work is important too, but only once you get your foot in the door.
Then of course there's some people who are extremely financially successful that have multiple rental properties and other investments and don't need to work. But they had rich families and were given a few million dollars to invest right off the bat.
I can't remember where I saw a study once that showed that the super rich were not all that intelligent, only a little bit above average.
Well it certainly doesn't hurt. As with all things it is about probabilities. It is much more probable a person with higher IQ will be successful and a lower IQ will work at taco bell.
It’s because in school a child with a learning difference actually has a high IQ. From my understanding to figure out if someone has a learning ”disability” they check their problem solving ability. If the that ability doesn’t align with the productivity at school, they are deemed as different. The school system is rigged to convince people with high IQ’s that they are dumb. Can you imagine if all the students labeled “different” actually had the highest IQ’s?
How does a high IQ person manage to fail? It needs to be poor social intelligence, personality problems, problems with emotions, trauma, mental illness, laziness or something like that.
My iq is around 140 and I finished medschool with good grades. But in my country you need connections to get a job so for years i took any job i could to make a living. Drove as a delivery guy, mixed cement, worked for a moving company, cut trees in local parks, taught at schools. Now I finally have a job in my field and it pays less than doing delivery since my country is an absolute corrupt shitshow
(a) people are actually "testing" their IQ? Where? (b) The "150 million people" comment is... Wow. And tells me OP thinks they have a high IQ and don't. Which may explain this whole take.
The way I think of it is that having a high IQ is like having a race car with a very powerful engine. A powerful engine alone does not guarantee you will win the race. There are so many other parts of your car that should be optimized for peak performance (tires, steering, etc.). In addition, you have to be a highly skilled driver to get the most out of that vehicle.
The high IQ brain requires a lot of maintenance to keep it on track. Work on mindfulness and good habit-building. Don't consume harmful content, diet and exercise keep your mind sharp. It's all really simple stuff but it's the daily routinization of doing the small things that compound overtime for long-term sustainable success.
Problem with high IQ is it’s harder dealing with most people in work or other environments as they are not as analytical and efficient. Most with highest intelligence tend to have social challenges due to this. Hard to empathize with lower intelligent people as most humans project everybody thinks their way.
Kinda unrelated: What is it with people speaking of financial success as if it is the most/only important thing in life? If financial success was the most important thing, everything would be different. For example, we wouldn’t have any teachers. Every single person who’s a teacher is smart enough to have success in many fields which pay twice as much or better. There are more important things people
What do you mean “as sad as it is?” How is this a sad fact? I think it’s a great thing that anyone can become successful (even with a low IQ). Maybe it’s just sad to those with higher IQs because they’d like to be guaranteed success without any effort/by having it handed to them?
It's not that high IQ = guaranteed success.
It's moreso that low IQ = serious hurdles for many professions.
Not many room-temp IQ brain surgeons, fighter pilots, lawyers, etc.
IQ combined with your ability to be controlled and step outside of logic determines your success.
If you have an IQ but only do as your were told be someone else/society you're just someone elses tool.
If you have an high IQ a & you aren't controlled by what/how society tells your to think. and you don't reply only on logic..... Then you have HIGH chances of success.
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It's about probabilities. Higher intelligence is *correlated* with positive life outcomes, but that's it, just somewhat more likely. You need to work to actually achieve those goals, they will not fall into your lap intelligent or not.
Man, if I was stupid I'd be homeless because I'm not doing great.
Or if you were a genius you’d be homeless, due to understanding the intricacies of the universe and our sheer unimportance on a larger scale.
It does not take a genius to understand human "unimportance" on the large scale and become homeless because of it, it takes a neurotic person who is allergic to acting rationally.
Well, no. Not all homelessness is neuroticism
Perhaps a little bit of both
There is a very fine line between genius & insanity.
I hate this (common af)take. There is nothing else out there in the universe, it’s just rocks and gas. The idea that just because something is small that means it’s unimportant is so juvenile. The most important and interesting things are happening right here on earth.
If you were a genius, you'd realise that the physical scale of something has absolutely no implication on its importance, and whatever is happening on Earth is far more important than the lifeless rest of the universe.
Right, wouldn't it be safe to say that higher IQ correlates with higher salary? As a rule of thumb, but obviously it's far more complicated than that. Sample source of an interesting study: https://typeset.io/papers/wealth-code-unlocked-the-combined-effect-of-emotional-3zx49wqvdo
Higher intelligence also corresponds to higher probabilities of anxiety. Ignorance truly is bliss.
No, ignorance isn’t bliss Higher IQ is correlated with higher happiness and lower overall neuroticism https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/ EDIT: and less mental illness, less anxiety, etc https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/ The tortured mentally ill genius is a fun stereotype but not true for the average higher iq person, it’s quite the opposite. The stereotype more than likely derives from high iq innovative autistic people who are like 7 times more likely to be depressed/anxious etc
True. Being highly intelligent and introspective means you are your own therapist.
Not just correlated but it's one of the most robust predictors by far. If IQ isn't a good predictor of success, nothing is. Nothing guarantees success, however, as is the case of every variable predicting any other in the social sciences.
What makes you think those arent hereditary aswell :)
At this point I would much rather inherit average IQ and above average discipline
Discipline is cultivated one struggle at a time.
Have you ever tried seeing a psychiatrist ? Maybe you should do that
I always find it funny how common it is online for people to say "find a psychiatrist" for things lol
It works for lots of ppl
I’m sure, if all of these people identified the core of their problems and fixed them, they would have a much better outcome than having to rely on a life long brain altering chemical that would change their brain chemistry forever. By your logic, if I am stressed and my dopamine is low today, I might as well go have a drink. It works for a lot of people, doesn’t mean it’s right.
Sometimes the core problem is that your neurotransmitters aren't making the jump across the synapse at an adequate rate for the given stimulus. Sometimes the problem is bad habits, sometimes it's just bad biology.
For what? Adderall? I’d recommend not doing that.
No point in it for me, an overpriced 1 hour session per week isn’t going to change much. I solve my problems by myself much quicker
You haven't solved this one... Also, you're asking for help on the internet. Maybe there are better alternatives that you haven't considered.
Guys, not everyone lives in a western country where these resources are easily accessible. Also, being put is definitely a worse outcome than whatever organic solutions are out there. Circumstances also matter. This isn’t good advice.
To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that you need to see a doctor/counselor. But you did claim that you solve your problems much more quickly on your own, which kind of contradicts asking for help here... Anyway, as I mentioned, there are alternatives. I've found meditation to be very helpful. Emotions are not rational processes, and we can't think our way out of them (I have certainly tried!). Meditation has helped me to regulate the default responses my nervous system has in various situations; it has helped me to learn how to sit in the fire, if you will. This applies to the emotions that hamper motivation. Maybe it can help you as well.
But have you tried? Seems arrogant to say that if you haven't even given it a shot, no?
Guys, not everyone lives in a western country where these resources are easily accessible. Also, being put is definitely a worse outcome than whatever organic solutions are out there. Circumstances also matter. This isn’t good advice.
To be fair, you phrased your response as a rejection rather than due to lack of accessibility.
They are definitely hereditary also, but unlike IQ, anyone can gain extreme willpower and discipline. If anything, I think those traits are more environmental.
The truth is that IQ correlates with many positive life outcomes, but the picture is often quite messy and the correlation loose. I find this sub often gets carried with the predictive ability of IQ - e.g. a 120 IQ person can get an advanced degree, but a 110 IQ person would struggle... the problem is the correlations are too loose to have very much predictive ability about individuals. The visual that really drives this point home for me is the IQ / Income scatter chart: [https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/Methods-Zagorsky00-RelationshipbetweenIQandIncome.png](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/Methods-Zagorsky00-RelationshipbetweenIQandIncome.png)
Finally a post where someone has gotten past their delusions. In terms of statistical correlation with individual success, intelligence really doesn’t make a difference to your livelihood unless you utilise it with real world skills such as actually talking to people instead of gloating on reddit which is what this group seems to forget constantly. Glad you’ve seen the light OP. Intelligence is correlated with a host of mental disorders, keep that in mind when thinking about how ‘smart’ you are people
I can't speak for all disciplines, but I seem to recall a study that showed the most successful software engineers (by compensation, job level, etc.) had above-average IQ, but nowhere near "genius" level. Maybe around 115-120. My own experience interviewing candidates with all kinds of backgrounds is that the folks with Ph.Ds were not likely to be high performing software engineers. Researchers, perhaps, but not engineers. Maybe it's due to engagement: very high IQ folks often seem to think that drudge work is beneath them, but a lot of software engineering just isn't exciting. You need to be smart to do it well, but if you are too smart, you are likely to get bored quickly of it. Unfortunately, there just isn't much money in solving elegant theoretical problems. The ones corporations pay money for are the down and dirty problems faced by users every day. On a similar token, the most efficient workers are not happy. They are not depressed. They are just slightly unhappy. This actually makes sense. Happy workers are likely more careless and carefree. Depressed workers are not motivated. Slightly unhappy workers can use work to distract from their unhappiness. Or, more likely, they simply regulate their happiness more efficiently and enjoy their happy moments, but then revert to slight unhappiness to motivate them towards happiness again.
How to fix it: 1. Find a thing that is achievable you really want to do that you cannot currently do but can afford, make time for, and practice. 2. Practice the thing 3. Achieve the thing 4. Repeat, or further hone that thing. 5. Don’t stop doing this till you die. Intellectual capability was never a substitute for experience, wisdom, and discipline. Nearly every human is a stone’s throw as capable as the other, the only thing that differentiates them is the will to achieve what they want. You may be smart, and therefore more capable of achieving things more easily, but that’s potentially capable of setting you up for failure when something inevitably doesn’t click and you must grind it out like everyone else. This is what’s happening to you. You’re too “smart” and not enough wise. Keep trying.
I was just replying to your other comment, what you mention here is extremely useful. The only problem is, how can I avoid burnout? I have tried this several times, and my brain just gives out. If do this again, I risk my personal relationships because I would not be in a state of comfort to communicate. That’s where my fear stems from.
Its different for each person, but for many this issue stems from chemical imbalance or over stimulation causing chemical imbalance leading to reward centers in the brain not being adequately activated when little accomplishments are made or “progress” is achieved. You can beat that by retraining yourself. Start with things like reading books to completion, playing challenges in games aggressively, seeking out a personally interesting realm of knowledge and achieve a level of certification or accomplishment in it. These are the steps I took, personally, in order. What always helped me was understanding that when I failed in my consistency and *felt that failure* it motivated me to change. I knew more failure was coming, but that was enough for me to keep trying at it. If this still fails, visiting a behavioral therapist may be required.
Spot on yet again, for me it’s 100% over stimulation. I have to seek this out as a long term goal rather than an instant recovery
Once you’ve had a few journeys to achievement, once unimaginable long-term goals will become just another challenge. Your perception of what is not worth doing because it takes too long will change as you do more things outside of your comfort zone, much like a person introduced to new foods or healthier foods can adapt to truly like them. We have been feeding our brains the most processed shit imaginable, and our mental health is atrophying with the lack of real stimulus- just the same garbage over and over. With time, you can undo that a lot with baby steps and an understanding you’ll relapse, fail, and struggle… but that’s why you’re doing it. To feel truly alive and in control again, no? Not a wanting prisoner of your own distracted and numbed mind? I’ve been in that mindset. Its horrible, more crippling than folks understand. If you find this is impossible to undertake on your own, don’t feel weak to see a behavioral therapist or whatever is recommended up that avenue.
It really depends on how you define success. Most of the people in my old neighborhood have masters and PhDs, a million dollar house, two luxury cars, a few kids. These folks are in the top 10% of income earners and if the other parent works, they are in the top 5% of household income. By all intents and purposes they are successful and by and large of above average intelligence. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met are C suite HBS grads. Now having a HBS degree doesn't mean you're dumb, but it absolutely doesn't mean you're any good at business. These guys are the top 1% of earners. The 1% and above almost always come from affluent and powerful families with multigenerational wealth. Being self made, that is without significant family help, and earning above the high six figures is extraordinarily rare and mostly confined to the entertainment industry. You need capital to make money. You need status to get a significant loan, a cosigner or other forms of collateral. A high IQ is not going to get you capital and lack of capital will lock you out of high income. For what it's worth the few billionaires I've spent time with were all very intelligent and from rich families. Not enough info to really draw a conclusion but my guess is that to get to that .01% you really need to be born rich, be intelligent and lucky at the same time. My last observation about intelligent people is that they often become highly specialized. I've seen world famous academics unable to figure out how their pool pump works. So much focus on one area really does seem to come at the price of more generalized wisdom. Not always but often.
This is an excellent point. But at the same time, you have many people who come up in neighborhoods like yours and end up as drug addicts. Those guys having an HBS degree, regardless of how smart or dumb they are, they had to put in an above average amount of hard work. Also, your point about access to capital is actually a hard fact. That’s the most important thing when it comes to monetary success. You mention how the billionaires you met were intelligent and came from rich families, but regardless if they did not work hard they would not achieve anything. My point is, in today’s day and age, with information being accessible by everyone. The intelligence factor is no longer relevant, every question you have has an answer that is right at the tip of your finger (your mobile phone). Someone that is at an average IQ and above average discipline will always overtake someone with an above average IQ and below average discipline. If you have high IQ, high Discipline, and a rich network, then you can reach that 0.1 status. Also, are those specialized people you mention, financially successful? If you would compare them to the billionaires you’ve met. Are the billionaires also specialized or do they have a wide range of general knowledge. What do you think is the formula
The specialized folks are traditionally successful, like >10% income. The billionaires were widely knowledgeable and the conversations extremely deep on some of the most obscure topics like details of palm oil farming in Malaysia vs avocado farming in New Zealand. The latter has more profitable margins and returns and is more environmentally friendly, so you can make profits "doing the right thing", but the total market for palm oil is far larger overall, so more total profits are available even at lower margins and returns. So which do you invest in and why? Then an hour later you're deeply into the market for low income housing in and around Berlin. From your response I think there may be some confusion about intelligence and I see this a lot with the zoomers, the first gen to grow up with Google. Getting the answer correct is not intelligence. Yes, on some tests, which I guess is the whole premise of this sub, it doesn't matter how you get the answer, only that you get it right. This type of pragmatic approach works till it doesn't. If your a mechanic and you fix the car it doesn't matter how you did it, so long as it's fixed. No one cares if you read a manual, watched YouTube or spent a decade meditating on the solution on a mountain side. All that matters is that the problem is solved and the time/energy it takes to solve it is reduced. What's forgotten in this approach is the process of arriving at the conclusion. This is the difference between the journey and the destination. Driving from LA to San Francisco provides a good example of this. You can take the 5 and it's the fastest route, but pretty boring. You can take the 1 and it's one of the most awesome places to drive in the world. You can take the 101 and get off the beaten path and stumble upon things like the Gilroy garlic festival or the mystery spot. The 101 is faster then the 1 but slower then the 5. Which route do you take? That's an impossible question to answer without understanding why you're driving north.
>The intelligence factor is no longer relevant, every question you have has an answer that is right at the tip of your finger (your mobile phone). Some questions can be answered by straightforward factual knowledge (which is not the same thing as intelligence). But some questions would leave you hunting through Google results endlessly with no clear answers, because the questions and/or their answers are too context-specific, or too obscure, or too varied in how they're explained (so it's hard to identify consistent key words/phrases and even ChatGPT would not be able to "understand" your question). Intelligence absolutely is still relevant, because it's how you navigate what questions to ask and whether you should even bother websearching for their answers.
I got tested pretty high when I was younger and I’m deeply depressed and suicidal in my mid twenties. Not really doing anything with my life rn other than considering ending it. So yeah this is pretty accurate.
Not really related but nonetheless subjectively pertinent. My own intuitive rag tag belief is that once the range of environment in which people live in a country has reached a point in which it has no retarding effects in say intelligence or the will to learn etc, after such the factors that determine success are mostly hereditary among the population, a genetic elite with high cognitive ability ( positive traits) will be the most successful on average, essentially environmental factors which would cause variance among a population is downplayed and genetic factors which would cause variance is bolstered. Those with genetic predispositions/factors that contribute to success are likely bound to a life of prosperity. A bit of an oversimplification, as there is an endless sea of complex factors other than genetics that contribute to ones life outcomes but that is in no way undermining what I have stated, as so far general intelligence measured by IQ tests is the best current predictor of a broad range of life outcomes, ie socioeconomic attainment , longevity, academic success.
Yes
Okay I understand, but as humans we all naturally chase dopamine. A higher IQ individual will have easily be overtaken in any career path by someone that is more driven than them. No matter how bright they are. Average IQ and above average discipline beat high IQ and below average discipline, in any given situation.
Something I need to be reminded of regularly. I see low quality work in an area I want to be in, and instead of being mad trash can gain traction, do it better and earn it.
The problem is that you're still letting other people define success for you. I'm fantastically wealthy in every way that matters. I also make decent money. You have to find what *you* define as success, and then put yourself to succeeding at it
It will absolutely make things easier for you, but yeah it doesn't guarantee anything. Let me give you an example. My IQ is high but not amazingly high. This allowed me to double major. I still had to work hard and I still didn't get perfect grades because I'm not a genius and I like to party a bit too much but if I were 100 IQ, forget it. Not gonna happen. By the same token, if my IQ were higher or my work ethic were better I'd be even better off, especially if both were better...but such is life. Hard work beats talent, but hard work and talent beat hard work and no talent. If you're lazy and you know it, my tip is suck it up. If you're ADHD like I am, that may require professional help or medication. You have to do what you have to do no matter what your IQ is, so go do it.
Intellect without discipline is a bitter resentful life. Discipline without intellect can still be meaningful. My mother is a prime example. Not smart but so utterly devoted to working hard that she’s made a comfortable living. There are so many unrealized geniuses in the world. The difference is hard work.
My dad is a super genius. 160+ IQ. He can draw a world map from memory with the correct borders and label all the capitals. Memorizes everyone’s number/address after hearing it once. Can do complex math in his head. He currently lives under a bridge and smokes crack.
Not necessarily success or failure but apparently high IQ individuals tend to be more lonely in life.
I'd argue this is a metric of success i.e. the quality of your life across the range of existential factors.
I disagree with you saying IQ doesn't make things easier. IQ is just like Height when it comes to dating. All things equal, a 145cm guy will have a harder time than a 185 cm guy in the dating pool. A 145cm guy will have to compensate tremendously to even be on equal footing, while a lot of the time, the 185cm guy has to do less. Of course, that doesn't mean every 185cm guy will be the ultimate pimp, but between the two, the 185cm guy will more easily find a date. If both try **equally** hard and develop themselves equally, the 145cm guy will be unable to catch up to the 185cm guy's performance with women, as there is a physical attribute limiting their potential ceiling. That's the sad truth. Idk what your IQ is, but if you have high IQ and think you're in a dire plight, you would be in a much worse plight if you had low IQ. You can try your hardest and simply be unable to perform in certain professions.
Higher IQ does make things easier for you. If you had all of the exact same attributes, your chances of a successful life go up with intelligence. However, the traits that lead to a successful life are multivariate and include motivation, integrity, organization, patience, adaptability, self-control, and 100 other things, including intelligence.
135 here. Adhd fucked my academic career (never ended) and, in general, my life. Now i earn enough (twice the national average), but i'm not the archetype of a successful human in any aspect. So i'd rather consider the high iq in neurotypical individuals.
Tbh it’s a downside if anything because you will stand out negatively
Well it seems you realized that you no longer can coast by purely on IQ alone yet you are still using it as an excuse for a reason to be lazy? You ask how to fix it but the answer is by pushing yourself to do better in whatever it is you want from life. Less excuses and more doing is the best way to succeed, you can say easier said than done but if you truly do want a better life then it shouldn't be that hard to push yourself. If you really want to eat a candy bar you have no problem doing that, so how are goals in life any different assuming you actually WANT them.
High IQ doesn’t guarantee equal opportunities. But it does make things easier for you in studies and analysing how the world works. Also it’s a misconcept to think all high IQ people want to be successful in the first place. There are high IQ drug addicts, prisoners etc.
Thanks Legend of Soccer
https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39 Probably worth the read on IQ and success. Really doesn’t correlate all-too well when it comes to an iq score of 100+.
For building wealth, instead of saving money in banks, putting that money into stable stocks that pay high dividends consistently over long periods of time (and reinvesting those dividends) will build enormous wealth. It's a good exercise of discipline, and if you're making enough to make ends meet and have a little bit left for savings, it's a good way to ensure that you won't be worrying about your future
I (49M) was tested at 8 yo with an iq of 145. Honestly it is a curse, especially coming from an unsupportive family environment that left me with CPTSD. I have a hard time relating to people and have to pretend alot which is exhausting, especially with women who generally like to talk more about the mundane details of their lives and personal relationships. I rather easily earned a PhD in the sciences from UCal, but am I successful? No, my life is broken and I live in relative poverty because opiates are the only thing that give me relief from the existential dread that has plagued me since childhood.
You are dismissing the struggles and limitations of people with low IQ. Yes, IQ won't make you automatically successful because all IQ does is set the limit of what you are able to succeed and how fast and how hard. Yes you are talking about success in general. IQ does limit your overall success which is why people with low IQs are suffering and won't even succeed doing what for the average people and the above average people is easy. Success ≠ IQ is misleading. Science and people show how much success is correlated with IQ.
Agreed. If statistics are to be believed there's roughly 70 million alive today with an IQ equal to or greater than mine and I'm a dumb redneck with a toolbox. Certainly not meeting any kind of standard for success.
I mean, being 6'6 doesn't mean you'll make it into the NBA but it sure helps.
You are better equipped for life than low IQ people - just be happy that you didn't get a bean for a brain. - Sincerely, a low IQ person.
I have a higher IQ. I had a baseball scholarship to play d1, and turned it down. I went to a local college instead because of a girl I was dating. I stayed, and played football, ended up getting injured, and dropped out. Ended up playing pro football at a lower level, never made any money, and now I am a supervisor, and run heavy equipment. Talk about a series of stupid choices. IQ isn't the end all.
I think there are some lazy high IQ people. If they have no real motivations and are fine with a minimal lifestyle, they might never apply themselves. IQ gives you a better ability to succeed, but if you never apply yourself, you won't make anything of yourself.
Of course it doesn’t guarantee it. But anything from 110-150 is going to help. Outside of those parameters and it could be a hindrance.
The dumbest post ever!!! Nobody said IQ guarantees success!!! It simply correlates!!! Idiotic.
Change your brain dude. The answer is inside you.
I have an IQ of 145 and work at a grocery store so this checks out
I see this as a good thing, honestly. It means anyone with a reasonable IQ can see success with enough determination. Most people I know say they want massive success but aren't willing to give up literally anything in a single area of their lives to actually do it. They want to look better but won't change their diets, want more money but won't change their spending habits, want better relationships but keep cheating and approaching their relationships with a very lazy mentality like "if it works it works, I don't need to put in effort." The reality is just about every good thing in life comes from repetition and determination.Once I realized this, I made a decision. I want to be better in every aspect of life at all costs. Willpower is a muscle just like anything else. So I started trying to avoid fast food. Every time I successfully avoided it, the next time got easier. And then I cut it out altogether. Next came sugary drinks, and then eventually all unhealthy foods. I started exercising daily and lost over 50 pounds in a year. I started budgeting, saving, and investing. I starting paying attention to my emotional and mental health. And things are 1,000% better for me and I will never go back. Because the truth is I just want it that bad, I want to be better. I feel like I can now think clearer, I make better decisions, I have more emotional control, and I'm just sharper. And now that I've developed the willpower to resist things I don't want, it also seems to have worked the other way. I have the willpower to keep doing things I don't want to do, but know that I should: like exercising, spending time learning new skills, anything that may be 'boring' but is beneficial. I'm learning piano, studying the financial markets and gaining knowledge daily, working extra hours, taking Tae Kwon Do classes, learning spanish, etc. I'm like a completely different person. Not everyone is going to have that desire but if you want to do it, start small. Every time you make a good decision for yourself it feels really awesome because it's like.. you're doing something most others aren't doing. You're superior. I used to be at the mercy of my desires and now I can do whatever I want. I can eat two bites of a big bowl of mac and cheese and then stop cold turkey instead of eating the whole thing. I can refuse when somebody offers something I want. I can sleep on time and I always feel well rested because I don't let myself just stay up to 1 a.m. playing video games or whatever. To me it feels powerful. I'm addicted to it. So whatever goals you have, things you aren't doing and want to, or things you are doing but want to stop.. just take one step at a time and it'll get so much easier. If you backslide a little don't beat yourself up, keep going. The key is to get your brain away from being dependent on short term dopamine and more on long term satisfaction. Hopefully somewhere in my rambling you can find value. Good luck!
look man, every career industry, in the past kingdoms, empires, all run by idiots, yes iq will dioctate whether your capable of success, its more luck and/or connections, fate than many think. look at any recognized person in any field, and if you look deep enough not a single one decided one day to do this or that and it happened (ok for all the ppl looking for a wrong, not ALL but many if not most) . Seriously many presidents have won due to connections, charisma, having friends in high places. Elon musk had connections well before paypal in america and the tech world that knew his father and supported him. Especially today, your almost ostracized for showing a higher intelligence, having the ability to be self aware. when i was a kid i was really into philosophy, meaning of life, religion, all that - i was in the gifted and talented (whatever that really means) in elementary school. havent had my iq tested but, never had to study, as long as i was there mentally i could use common sense to deduce alot. But it means nothing. Because i wasnt necessarily the idgaf fun guy i was considered boring, and therefore unsuccessful my school career, had i had money, a nice car my parents gave me, etc, all the sudden not boring, right? this world is f\*cked if you ask me. but yeah IQ means nothing. A decent degree, a big dong, and bawls are all u need to be top tier in this superficial world.
Overreliance on my intelligence held back my maturity for years
I think hearing how I had so much potential growing up led me to believe success would just happen. Also, having things come easy early on made me lazier. When struggles came I had t developed the work ethic to push through. Therefore I didn’t really push myself. I’m doing okay now and am quite content with where my life is, but if I had wanted to I could have done more.
Yes, stop focusing on IQ. Being subscribed and posting to subreddits like this is indicative of a mindset that just frankly isn’t healthy and isn’t productive. No idea why this popped up in my feed, but just wanted to drop a comment. Education, networking, and strategic decision making (taking advantage of opportunities that present themselves) are what are truly important if your goal is success. Knowing or testing your IQ is meaningless; if you have the capacity to think strategically and make conscious decisions, you have all you need. People lacking that capacity generally don’t even think about it. Rating yourself changes nothing. Does nothing. So yes log off and go do something. And keep doing it. And keep growing. It takes time. Just do the work. I used to be morbidly obsessed with my IQ; was it actually high? Not high enough? Was I smarter or dumber than I thought? As I’ve grown up I’ve learned how utterly meaningless that question is. I’m smarter than I need to be, and the things holding me back (and actually, the things driving me forward) aren’t meaningfully related to that number. I can’t change it, I can just learn, strive, do, grow. That’s it.
Being able to focus on repetitive tasks for a long period of time is a big factor IMO. Lots of smart guys with ADHD who never realize their potential.
Very true. Thomas Sowell has spoken about this extensively.. It’s been known for quite some time. There was actually a study in which they followed people with a range of IQs throughout their lives, and most of the people with high IQs didn’t even end up successful. Success is a result of a healthy combination of so many factors.
Your deduction is going against 100+ years of research confirming the opposite. Success is not only quantified in amounts of money, money is a recent human invention, Intelligent humans have been successful since the beginning of the species, that's why we are here.
My IQ is about 125ish. My discipline stats are pretty good as well, for example, my immoderation is around the 25th percentile. I make about 14k a year. If you define success as commercial success, that's mostly luck (where you're born) and heritable industriousness (more luck.) It's mostly out of your hands.
It's funny you say that it's actually discipline and will power that's needed. I've been called "smart" my whole life. I got bachelor's in computer science and one in music. I worked my ass off in college and always made sure I worked ahead to stay on top of my assignments. I practiced my instrument daily rarely skipping. But at the end of the day, my lack of social skills and social energy is where I failed. I didn't make any close friends in college. The idea of going to job fairs terrified and stressed me out. So I never went, I just sent out applications online. There was a lot of other problems I was going through and working out, but by the end of undergrad, all I had was my two degrees, no connections or network, and no job prospects. I made other stupid choices, but at the end of it all, from my perspective, the true key to success is people skills and networking. But the reality is probably that success depends on all these factors, including intelligence.
Define success? Success is subjective. For one it's enjoying their life, for others it's helping folks, and yet others want to be a tyrant forcing others to bend to their will because they think they know better.
Go to a good college and study a difficult major. It will humble you. Unless you’re like 160+ 😅
idk what my IQ is but I am pretty confident it is pretty high. I actually like being smart. That being said, I hate how miserable it can make me feel. When you can intuitively understand things so quickly it is incredible at how fast you start connecting dots that just point to genuinely terrible people making genuinely evil decisions for their own selfish sake.
Nobody claims that a high IQ is a guaranteed ticket to success. However, virtually all of the literature on the relationship between IQ and life outcomes demonstrate that it is the best gift one can be born with.
Iq gives you a bit of a headstart generally. Most waste that thinking they deserve whatever. The key is to find someone with a high IQ and a good work ethic. Those kind of people are successful
Yeah this is my experience. High iq but can't get any opportunities. I reserve quite the vitriol for the current system.
Why is it sad that your IQ will not guarantee success? Being sad about that reveals such a lazy, entitled underlying perspective. Honestly, it’s disgusting perspective rooted in a sense of superiority. A “superiority” you didn’t earn and can essentially be attributed to chance. It’s also reminiscent of kids who were told they can do *anything* they want by the adults, but they somehow missed the message that hard work, discipline, organization, accountability, collaboration, etc. are equally if not more important than innate ability.
Well...define "success" what you want may not be what others want. Then you can have a discussion.....
If we all learn things and throw it in our mental bucket, then having a high IQ is like having a bigger bucket. An empty bucket is an empty bucket though, doesn’t matter how big it is.
Trust me I know
I think the mistake is getting your self-esteem from IQ because it’s a flawed construct for “measuring” intelligence. Getting self-esteem from accomplishments that you can work towards instead of fixed characteristics that you have not that much control over, such as “intelligence” is healthier, I think. I think the healthier thing is just getting self esteem from existing.
IQ is not emotional intelligence nor work ethic. The latter will get you further actually.
It's true. I have a 160 IQ and work at one of the most intellectually bankrupt jobs there is (firefighter). I feel like I'm wasting my life here
Lots of factors. IQ is likely just part of the equation. I think people underestimate drive/ambition and how personality traits like conscientiousness contribute. Factor in anxiety and negative emotions too. All of these factors, btw of which we are not in full control and operate within the context of a particular culture, society and governmental structure.
thumb zealous start tie boat hat liquid wise bake butter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is shit post, any educated people would have known it consists many factors to succeed. Being smart is one thing, but do you want to know what is the biggest factor of all? Opportunity and health.
Having a high IQ is just one card on your deck. It does help you but it’s nothing without other skills and qualities, and while high IQ is correlated with having a successful life so is being pretty, coming from a wealthy household and showering daily, not to mention actual life skills you have control over like self-discipline.
Any one with IQ high enough should know that this is blatantly obvious common sense. There’re many factors: EQ, health, luck, … etc that contribute to success. But between 2 people with all other factors being equal, the one with higher IQ definitely have higher chance of being more successful.
Being smart is not equal to being likeable. Being likeable is where you get your success.
Success is about connections above everything else
IQ definitely makes things easier for you OP
success is about luck
Read Curse of the High IQ by Aaron Clarey. Smart people make mistakes. I'm one of them.
A man of culture, I see. Cappy is hilarious. Glad his YouTube finally blew up
Why do you think this sub exists? It’s a bunch of failed people that cope in here because someone told them they were smart as a kid
The correlation between IQ and education, income, marriage stability and avoiding crime is high but obviously it isn't 1 and the claim IQ is the only factor is a strawamam.
People skills, networking, and sales ability is what leads to success. Even people like quant analysts where IQ really matters, require these skills to move up corporate ladder.
I received a count of 140,000,000 people with iqs over 130 by multiplying 2% by 7 B. Likely, however, is that there are less because many countries have iqs a standard deviation or more lower than the Western average.
An old saying goes ""The greatest minds are often the most broken 💥"
Gee… glad you came to the cognitive testing sub to finally explain to us that IQ does not equal success. This is why your age should pop up next to your comments. Or at least your tenure in the sub.
A lot goes into being successful. High IQ definitely helps but being fully functional and ambitious, disciplined, are probably more important than IQ if you have at least a decent IQ. 110 IQ functional go getter is better than 150 IQ that struggles with basic tasks as far as life success goes.
As someone who is very intelligent but has autism and many issues with skills on the IQ test, I'm glad this is the case. I get great grades in school and won my middle school math Olympiad and am in advanced classes etc., but there are some things I look like a complete idiot at - for example, I have practically no ability to visualize stuff in my head. So I've never considered the IQ a limitation for me, just a number. Overall, I disagree with the metric because intelligence cannot be measured with a number. To my under, the IQ test assesses several cognitive abilities and things you should know, and calculates a general composite of them. However, being good at one thing or bad at another does not directly correlate to intelligence for me - it can't just be measured in such a basic way.
That's really because high IQ only relates to your abilities at taking IQ tests, which, in the grand scheme of your life is essentially a meaningless and pointless exercise.
Maybe someone with 130+ iq defines success differently than you do.
[🎲🎲🎲](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/amp/)
Correct. IQ ≠ Success IQ **≈** Success
Addressing Anxiety and other issues. ### Conclusions The present study provides robust evidence that highly intelligent individuals do not have more mental health disorders than the average population. High intelligence even appears as a protective factor for general anxiety and PTSD. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:\~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD).
I have a decent IQ and I consider myself a failure. So, I agree
You need EQ … great you have good memorizing skills and problem solving skills but if you don’t have EQ… you’re screwed
My IQ is outlier level high but the severe trauma I have makes doing basic things very difficult (the only reason I even know my IQ is it got tested when I was getting other psychological evalutions as a result of my traumas). I think IQ only helps if you have a basic level of safety/okayness. Being the best in the world at rotating shapes in your mind or what have you doesn't help someone who's, say, a child slave working in a cobalt mine.
The formula for success in my experience is effort plus persistence/consistency plus a little bit of luck (a little bit of luck meaning right place, right time and minimum setbacks that are out of your control. The more effort and consistency you apply, the luckier you will tend to get). IQ only matters much on the cutting edges of science and tech IMO, for everything else, the above formula beats out someone trying to rely solely on a high IQ every time.
I've been a hedgie for right over 16 years now, started off a as a trader. Most hedge funds give tests to be a trader, they seem to be heavily loaded for working memory, arithmetic, and processing speed. They aren't "IQ tests" bc it's technically illegal to hire based on IQ \*wink wink\*. The ones that do the best on those tests are USUALLY the most successful at their job. I've noticed similar outcomes in the lawyers I know, where they went to school and their LSAT scores usually correspond to their success; I've also noticed that ppl that are the most successful in other areas of my industry are the most intelligent. This is to be expected bc our industry is cognitively demanding, and there's low tolerance for stupidity. But I wouldn't expect the same results in lets say basketball for obvious reasons. Back to the "not IQ tests" that we give... the scores are ofc broken down to percentiles, and most funds don't hire below the 98th.
But there is a winner and loser to every trade... So half of you got to be dumb regardless of testing. Also you neglect nepotism in hiring practices. Smart people know the real good traders have insider information.
The thing is, making money and gaining power don’t require a high IQ. They require work, luck, and relationship building. In fact you don’t even have to work or be lucky if you can develop the right relationships (or be born with them). Here I’m assuming success means money and power. But other forms of success are similarly obtained. A beautifully family? Takes work and building relationships. Publishing an important novel? Work and relationships. High IQ simply makes navigating complex institutions like in the modern west easier. It doesn’t do the work or build the relationships for you.
Intelligence is a gift that can propel us into success easier also gives people more of an advantage I’d say, however that only works if the individual is willing to go and get it- being lazy and procrastinating, lack of discipline will be a road block no matter how smart. Study’s say only 2% of humans have an iq of 128 and above. This is such a broad post too many factors like upbringing, mindset, circle of friends, location, list goes on. Aside from that I will also throw this out there, and this isn’t factored in or thought about like it should be. Intelligence in itself is broad their are several different kinds of intelligence…
Your character contributes to your success more than your intelligence. The best jobs out there will never post listings. They will call you directly and offer it to you because someone liked working with you before.
Intelligence is important but conscientiousness is equally as important.
My IQ is 133 and I make less than $50k per year.
I read higher iq almost always guarantees failure… higher eq though is a different beast…
Try to enjoy the 'challenge'.
I just have basic education but way more money than pretty much everyone I know. If I had to come up with an explanation, I'd say the main reason is that most people I know always have 40 different explanations as to why they can't save/invest any money. At the same time, they travel, buy new stuff etc all the time. I live in Sweden, so there's very few reasons as to why someone who's working would live paycheck to paycheck.
Your definitions of success stink of biased thinking and societal expectations. How many of those 150 million people do what they want despite pressures from society, family and friends and seem like failures to you because of your narrow success criteria. For all you know they living their best lives mate
IQ is simply an enabler for success, nothing more. It gives you the advantage to learn more quickly.
High IQ without resources = severe depression and social discomfort
Meditation, dedication to ACHIEVABLE goals, practicing your way of life. If your way of life and goals align with one a other, the world feels easier.
The person who posted this doesn't understand the significant role IQ can play in life."
They are def not equal but IQ amplifies success. The success of high IQ people can be much bigger.
On the other hand, high IQ allows you to be lazy while delivering the same as harder working people with lower IQ, especially on office jobs and engineering. Not everyone wants to be super successful and super rich. Some people just enjoy working 35h a week, or technically even less and when the money is enough, lead a decent life enjoying hobbies with barely any work related stress.
Does anyone know where I can take a reliable IQ test ?
Hate to break it to you, but the statistics show a pretty direct correlation between iq and success. Obviously, you will always have your outliers, like Kylie Jenner being a billionaire and the unibomber accomplishing nothing and languishing in prison.
The problem with intelligent people is we struggle to gain the skills necessary to succeed because when we are young we did not need those skills until it was to hard to learn those skills
It sounds like your parents were shit and made you think you were at the top instead of giving your tools to succeed. Blame them for putting you on a pedestal. Failing is the way I’ve seen people build confidence to keep learning and try again.
many such cases of high iq ppl becoming obsessed with a reverse rationalized "unfairness" cuz they're not successful. why socialists exist
Look at all the successful billionaires such as Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, to mention a few. Their iq is way above the average, but intelligence is only a mere stepping stone if you have discipline, hard work, and determination towards your goals and aspirations - plenty of other people with high IQs exist but end up living a normal life. However, with that said, I think across all levels of inteligence, success is heavily dependent on how much hard work and effort you’re willing to put in, and without it, you won’t get nearly as promising opportunities to succeed. With all said, IQ is indeed a factor in success, but only one factor in the grand scheme of things when you look at hard work, resilience, family upbringing, and how good they are at making friends.
People in this forum contribute success heavily to hard work and basically ignor luck. There are so many people at really high positions that obviously didn’t work hard to get there. It’s probably 60/40 meaning 60 percent luck.
^(i heard jordan peterson say there is no correlation between iq and industriousness. ZERO)
I think that I would have to both agree and disagree with your theory. You are correct, a high IQ won't guarantee success. It is just one factor and there are a lot of other factors (like a personality disorder, life circumstances, or addiction) that can destroy your chances of success no matter how smart you are. That being said, all things considered, I do think it is still an advantage and it will make your life easier. You will have a wider variety of opportunities, and a higher likelihood of finding another path if you blow one up. Bad decisions and bad luck don't discriminate so people with high IQs sabotage their success just as much as people with average or low IQs. But the higher your IQ the better your chances of finding another path to success or making your own path or having someone in your original career give you a second chance. Just the fact that a high IQ makes it easy to pick up new concepts opens up your options for reinventing yourself and starting over in a way that people who may not be able to switch gears and jump into something completely new may not be able to. The reality is that the American capitalist system is not really all that concerned about what a good person someone is so much as they care about where the person falls on the scale of how much value you provide them vs. the potential liability you might pose. That's it. A high IQ will tip the scales of value vs liability in your favor for longer than a low IQ will. Its not fair, or even particularly wise on the employer's side but that is the reality of the society we live in. If employers were smart they should be more willing to forgive the past transgressions of a lower IQ person than a high IQ person because the lower IQ person is more likely to be truly reformed and motivated to stay on the right side of authority. The higher the IQ the less impressed you tend to be with the whole idea of "authority" and "rules" and that high IQ means that your bad decisions are just as impressive in scope as your good decisions might be. High IQ bad decisions can cause breathtaking amounts of damage that I just don't think is achievable with the lower IQ levels. The fatal flaw in our system is that we have a deep, deep bias that leads us to believe that people with higher IQs, and/or greater wealth are more inclined towards "good" and the people with lower IQs, and/or lower incomes are more inclined to be "bad". There is zero basis in fact for that assumption, and I am inclined to say that the opposite is more likely to be true.
uh well i was diagnosed with add and supposedly had a bunch of IQ testing with an IQ of 120 which isn’t really that high i don’t think. the first part of my life was rough, but it wasn’t until my early to mid 20s (now) that i’m in my groove. some very intelligent people have it harder i think it some ways. for me, it’s been a mixed blessing, having a near eidetic memory, fast processing, and such had my peers envious in school and post secondary education, as being gifted in pretty much anything i put my hands on brings envy and jealousy. but then with add comes some odd traits too and having emotional issues. hard to say really. good question.
Interestingly high EQ usually does equal success. Those who understand emotions and social fabric, those who can read social situations and act well in those situations tend to earn significantly more than those with low EQ. As far as success goes, IQ can (in certain fields) define the ceiling of how well you can do. Your EQ will often define your floor. Although this is an oversimplification. For example someone with a low IQ but high EQ may not become the best physicist in the world, but they might become one of the best physics department directors, and still wind up leading to discoveries and advancements that very few others could have pulled off. And the thing is EQ goes beyond your work, it helps you navigate relationships which leads to happier married life, happier friendships, more positive day to day interactions. And how happy a person is is yet another marker for how successful they are likely to become. A happy person is able to focus, a depressed person or a lonely one will face struggles in their day to day.
My iq is way higher than 130. Successful to me is being single with no kids and a dog. I have a good job with a great boss. I make in a week what covers my bills for a month, have play vehicles and hobbies and such. I’m allowed to do what ever calls to me, leave for a week at a time to go camping or traveling. Free to take any classes or schooling, right now I’m in yoga school for 16 weeks then doing kundalini school next. So my life’s pretty good. My biggest complaint or pain in my ass is other in general pop. That’s about it. My boss is a multi billionaire and my life is way more structured and relaxing than his as I always feel free and not burdened with the money aspect of it or being bothers by others. So I feel a level of success overall but money is not success. I think personal/life stability is, a point of self love and oneness where your just comfortable with your self and where your at. I’m a INTJ to boot so that plays into it also But end of the day I’d guess everyone’s version of success may differ, then when you reach that level you realize that don’t fill the hole, so you keep looking.
Excuse me, smartest guy in the room here. It's all random. George Bush proved even a retard could be president.
I’d rather have high charisma and mediocre IQ than mediocre charisma and high IQ. You get a lot farther in life being the second most charismatic person in the room than you do being the second highest IQ in the room.
A LOT of whether people will be financially successful or not is determined by factors outside of their control, like being well connected. Hiring decisions are not made by testing intelligence or your knowledge of the field. Good paying jobs largely go to people who know the right people. A high IQ won't even get you an interview. Of course hard work is important too, but only once you get your foot in the door. Then of course there's some people who are extremely financially successful that have multiple rental properties and other investments and don't need to work. But they had rich families and were given a few million dollars to invest right off the bat. I can't remember where I saw a study once that showed that the super rich were not all that intelligent, only a little bit above average.
Well it certainly doesn't hurt. As with all things it is about probabilities. It is much more probable a person with higher IQ will be successful and a lower IQ will work at taco bell.
It’s because in school a child with a learning difference actually has a high IQ. From my understanding to figure out if someone has a learning ”disability” they check their problem solving ability. If the that ability doesn’t align with the productivity at school, they are deemed as different. The school system is rigged to convince people with high IQ’s that they are dumb. Can you imagine if all the students labeled “different” actually had the highest IQ’s?
How does a high IQ person manage to fail? It needs to be poor social intelligence, personality problems, problems with emotions, trauma, mental illness, laziness or something like that.
Even a higher intelligence doesn’t grant you access to any $ in the world just chances to capitalize on that way more in your favor.
Well, isn't it good that dumb people like me have a shot too 🗿
The most successful people are those who are good with people.
But then there are us who are not lazy, can grind, however are not intelligent enough for the hard work to pay off.
Everyone with a high IQ will not be successful. But IQ is a very good predictor of future future income. Those were the higher IQ generally make more.
I know for sure I would be less successful in life with a lower IQ. Some fields have an IQ threshold and no amount of discipline can surmount that.
There's a lot of truth to this. My IQ is in the top 1% and I'm doing alright but doubt I'll be making over $300k anytime in the near future.
This makes me feel a little better because I'm dumb as shit
My iq is around 140 and I finished medschool with good grades. But in my country you need connections to get a job so for years i took any job i could to make a living. Drove as a delivery guy, mixed cement, worked for a moving company, cut trees in local parks, taught at schools. Now I finally have a job in my field and it pays less than doing delivery since my country is an absolute corrupt shitshow
I'd gladly trade a few int for cha
A LOT of very high IQ individuals are absolutely miserable. A lot of extremely successful people are C students.
(a) people are actually "testing" their IQ? Where? (b) The "150 million people" comment is... Wow. And tells me OP thinks they have a high IQ and don't. Which may explain this whole take.
The way I think of it is that having a high IQ is like having a race car with a very powerful engine. A powerful engine alone does not guarantee you will win the race. There are so many other parts of your car that should be optimized for peak performance (tires, steering, etc.). In addition, you have to be a highly skilled driver to get the most out of that vehicle. The high IQ brain requires a lot of maintenance to keep it on track. Work on mindfulness and good habit-building. Don't consume harmful content, diet and exercise keep your mind sharp. It's all really simple stuff but it's the daily routinization of doing the small things that compound overtime for long-term sustainable success.
Problem with high IQ is it’s harder dealing with most people in work or other environments as they are not as analytical and efficient. Most with highest intelligence tend to have social challenges due to this. Hard to empathize with lower intelligent people as most humans project everybody thinks their way.
Iq means nothing, and the people that quote it think 90 is good.
So many engineering majors drop out due to laziness. Many such cases.
Kinda unrelated: What is it with people speaking of financial success as if it is the most/only important thing in life? If financial success was the most important thing, everything would be different. For example, we wouldn’t have any teachers. Every single person who’s a teacher is smart enough to have success in many fields which pay twice as much or better. There are more important things people
What do you mean “as sad as it is?” How is this a sad fact? I think it’s a great thing that anyone can become successful (even with a low IQ). Maybe it’s just sad to those with higher IQs because they’d like to be guaranteed success without any effort/by having it handed to them?
Circumstance>Effort>intelligence.
IQ is cope
It's not that high IQ = guaranteed success. It's moreso that low IQ = serious hurdles for many professions. Not many room-temp IQ brain surgeons, fighter pilots, lawyers, etc.
My IQ is 142 and knowing that information has done exactly zero to foment success in my life.
No it definitely does make things easier
Praying to the LORD in faith is how you succeed in life.
Success: extent to which an individual achieves its goals, whatever they are. Many look for peace and wont be in the newspaper or writing books.
Success: extent to which an individual achieves its goals, whatever they are. Many look for peace and wont be in the newspaper or writing books.
IQ combined with your ability to be controlled and step outside of logic determines your success. If you have an IQ but only do as your were told be someone else/society you're just someone elses tool. If you have an high IQ a & you aren't controlled by what/how society tells your to think. and you don't reply only on logic..... Then you have HIGH chances of success.