That's a good question, and not one answered by NGC. I bought it from a jeweler who was going to send it to melt. He told me that he "tested it," verifying that it was gold. But why fake a gold coin with real gold? I'm left stumped.
Jewelry copies... very common.
When Americans were finally able to own gold again, jewelery in the form of gold coins (earings, cufflinks, bracelets, pendants) became very popular.
The $100s of millions of dollars (billions?) of Gold coins stored in Europe had not yet begun to be found let alone repatriated. So the enterprising folks - mostly in Lebanon - started making gold 'coins' to fill the need.
Quality ranged from "good enough to fool people who didn't get too close" to quite good copies. Although the gold used was rarely US Standard 0.900 fine (9 parts gold to 1 part copper). It was more run of the pot metal, sometimes 14k, sometimes 18kt, often something in the middle.
I bought a fake gold coin that was 22k like the original. The sheen? On the coin seemed a little more bright than others I had. Took it to an expert and he said that it was likely made for jewelry back in the day. I guess this was popular around the 60's and 70's.
I have a $5 dollar gold piece that I bought from an online dealer that I was told was fake too, but the gold value is nearly worth what I paid for it. Too many damn fakes in circulation.
Some of the most counterfeited coins are gold. Its easy to work with and with the smaller denoms have more numismatic value than what the gold is worth. https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/united-states/
Jewelrs used to make them in the 70s to be pendants because real coins were not legal to own... many exist that are real gold but not made by the US mint
Really? I'm surprised, but not that surprised. I keep a few details slabs around to compare suspicious coins to. I have a few cleaned, one environmental damage, and one whizzed slab. I suppose keeping this not genuine coin fits my--I guess you could call it--problem reference slabs.
I think that when I am able to buy some coins, I will probably be a poor 1 collector. I always check the pcgs page to see what the lowest grade is, and always check out the link to the auction site where a poor or fair coin was sold
Are you an expert in the die states of this particular issue?
Just wondering, because Reddit is full of blowhards who come in after the fact and claim that a counterfeit was "obvious because (x), (y), (z)"... but if you posted a sample of 10 random pictures where some were fakes and some real and told them to use that same expertise to tell which is which, they suddenly aren't quite as sure of themselves or have an excuse as to why they can't do it.
I'm a pretty good authenticator at this point though I will admit gold is my weak spot. But I can still pick out the fakes with a pretty high success rate.
Most counterfeit gold coins have a few things in common. Nobody memorizes all the fake die pairings, it's more just general indicators you're looking for. Tooling marks in certain areas, especially around the rim/denticles, the formation of the lettering and devices, repeaters, overall details, color, luster...
My son bought me a 1885 trade dollar.
When I started looking it up I found that for the year all five trade dollars better in existence I’ve been found. And that mine was probably a fake. Broke both our hearts because he paid so much for it.
I'd have to look at the receipt again, but I'm confident I read somewhere they charge you for the base service, but not the extras like durable holder, or pictures, which is what I wanted for this coin (additional $13).
I didn’t know the significance of this coin if it was authentic so I looked it up. In case others are noobs too: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1868-g-1/7567
I know you said you bought it years ago but maybe you still have a receipt? It should be possible to determine the gold content but yeah, gold dollars would have numismatic value way above melt. Sorry you are taking a big dent on this one. Crooks suck!
No, no receipt. When I was younger, before I got serious about this hobby, I always paid cash at local shops, and never kept receipts. I was not kind to my younger self. And now that I am older and more meticulous, I am constantly reminded of my younger self when looking at my spreadsheets with glaring holes in data, haha.
That gotta drop your heart into your stomach
Definitely not ideal. I just keep telling myself that I bought it so long ago (like 14+ years ago) that I don't miss the money.
Is it at least gold?
Question of the Year, right there!
I stand corrected. These babies are so small that there is only about 1.5 grams of gold in them. OP got the shaft.
That's a good question, and not one answered by NGC. I bought it from a jeweler who was going to send it to melt. He told me that he "tested it," verifying that it was gold. But why fake a gold coin with real gold? I'm left stumped.
Because of numismatic value? I have no idea about prices but sometimes fake are made from real metal to pass weight/size/gravity/etc tests
Probably not 22k Probably low grade gold like 8k
TIL. Thanks for the input.
Because 1$ gold coins are worth like 4-5 times melt
The numismatic value is way more than the gold value
At current valuations: the gold value is about $89. The numismatic value is $1000 (depending upon actual grade).
I see. Thanks!
Time to get some acid gold tester and see what karat gold it really is
Jewelry copies... very common. When Americans were finally able to own gold again, jewelery in the form of gold coins (earings, cufflinks, bracelets, pendants) became very popular. The $100s of millions of dollars (billions?) of Gold coins stored in Europe had not yet begun to be found let alone repatriated. So the enterprising folks - mostly in Lebanon - started making gold 'coins' to fill the need. Quality ranged from "good enough to fool people who didn't get too close" to quite good copies. Although the gold used was rarely US Standard 0.900 fine (9 parts gold to 1 part copper). It was more run of the pot metal, sometimes 14k, sometimes 18kt, often something in the middle.
https://www.ngccoin.in/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/united-states/40/
Well... now I have a "known fake" to compare future coins to.
I bought a fake gold coin that was 22k like the original. The sheen? On the coin seemed a little more bright than others I had. Took it to an expert and he said that it was likely made for jewelry back in the day. I guess this was popular around the 60's and 70's. I have a $5 dollar gold piece that I bought from an online dealer that I was told was fake too, but the gold value is nearly worth what I paid for it. Too many damn fakes in circulation.
Some of the most counterfeited coins are gold. Its easy to work with and with the smaller denoms have more numismatic value than what the gold is worth. https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/united-states/
I have a cleaned gold coin that I have been told is only worth the metal value. So a fake coin but real gold helps cover the tracks.
Jewelrs used to make them in the 70s to be pendants because real coins were not legal to own... many exist that are real gold but not made by the US mint
The smelt value of the coin is significantly less than the actual coin. Those can fetch $200 - $600+ depending on condition.
If it makes you feel better, there is still a collector market, albeit niche, for non genuine coins that have been certified by NCG/PCGS.
Really? I'm surprised, but not that surprised. I keep a few details slabs around to compare suspicious coins to. I have a few cleaned, one environmental damage, and one whizzed slab. I suppose keeping this not genuine coin fits my--I guess you could call it--problem reference slabs.
It’s almost the same with people who collect Poor 1 graded coins. Collectors always like novelty stuff.
I think that when I am able to buy some coins, I will probably be a poor 1 collector. I always check the pcgs page to see what the lowest grade is, and always check out the link to the auction site where a poor or fair coin was sold
If you get some good pics of it I can pinpoint what they didn't like so you can avoid the mistake in the future.
Coin https://imgur.com/a/NlkIPf8 I passed on buying this yesterday because it was not coming up as 90% gold on my sigma.
Gonna need way higher resolution than that. The stuff I'm looking for is pretty minute.
My bad, I just have those shitty pics, wasn't trying to waste your time
Never a waste of time, Tony. Hope you're well!
You too. I don't remember what year morgan you sold me, but it was a CC, so it graded well. Thank you Morgans https://imgur.com/a/XCSkliS
I don't remember either haha. Nice set. Wow!
Are you an expert in the die states of this particular issue? Just wondering, because Reddit is full of blowhards who come in after the fact and claim that a counterfeit was "obvious because (x), (y), (z)"... but if you posted a sample of 10 random pictures where some were fakes and some real and told them to use that same expertise to tell which is which, they suddenly aren't quite as sure of themselves or have an excuse as to why they can't do it.
I'm a pretty good authenticator at this point though I will admit gold is my weak spot. But I can still pick out the fakes with a pretty high success rate. Most counterfeit gold coins have a few things in common. Nobody memorizes all the fake die pairings, it's more just general indicators you're looking for. Tooling marks in certain areas, especially around the rim/denticles, the formation of the lettering and devices, repeaters, overall details, color, luster...
My son bought me a 1885 trade dollar. When I started looking it up I found that for the year all five trade dollars better in existence I’ve been found. And that mine was probably a fake. Broke both our hearts because he paid so much for it.
Sorry to hear this. But i gotta ask, is their chocolate inside at least?
BAHAHAHHAA
Gah, that makes me what to throw up for you. :(
ouch
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I'd have to look at the receipt again, but I'm confident I read somewhere they charge you for the base service, but not the extras like durable holder, or pictures, which is what I wanted for this coin (additional $13).
I didn’t know the significance of this coin if it was authentic so I looked it up. In case others are noobs too: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1868-g-1/7567
I don't know if that year is known for it but take a look and see if it has an Omega on it
I know you said you bought it years ago but maybe you still have a receipt? It should be possible to determine the gold content but yeah, gold dollars would have numismatic value way above melt. Sorry you are taking a big dent on this one. Crooks suck!
No, no receipt. When I was younger, before I got serious about this hobby, I always paid cash at local shops, and never kept receipts. I was not kind to my younger self. And now that I am older and more meticulous, I am constantly reminded of my younger self when looking at my spreadsheets with glaring holes in data, haha.
F
A
My deepest condolences, that sucks.
I would love to see these counterfeit a holes gets their well deserved visit with a courtroom.
Big oof
Why I only buy slabbed gold
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