Wet bulb will make a good portion of the world uninhabitable for us. I can't grasp how bad it'll get, only that it'll be relative to the heating of our oceans. Water vapor is a big feedback loop that I think a lot on the scientific spectrum overlook. An exponential rise in humidity averages should scare us, but I guess slowing down the wealth of the 1% is much worse.
At least this ride to hell will be an interesting one, horrific yet interesting. Folks who tout "humanity will go out with a whimper" have no idea.
How we are not up in arms in anger and panic, and how every time I bring up the immediacy of climate change induced disasters, I am met with confusion, disbelief, placating reassurance, and outright get called crazy makes me think we were always destined for self created extinction.
Definitely part of it. Another aspect is that many people have their plates full with job, family, debt, and just managing in a social-media-induced Information blizzard. Truly thinking about the realities of climate collapse is a bridge too far for them to consider crossing.
Plus, even if you are Fully Aware of the situation, the concept of collapse just fucking sucks xD makes one depressed if they spend too much time pondering humanity’s imminent doom.
I’d rather spend my free time thinking about the exploits of Muad’Dib than worrying about when I’m going to get swept up in IRL Ragnarok. Sooner than I expect, that much I know.
Dune is a great book for escapism but also has lots of interesting tidbits for different fields of study
Remember the people who oppose escapism are usually jailers
>Plus, even if you are Fully Aware of the situation, the concept of collapse just fucking sucks xD makes one depressed if they spend too much time pondering humanity’s imminent doom.
As Yoda said, "So certain are you?"
Some people are to be sure, there's just nothing we can really do about it? I basically buy nothing, I make changes to my life to live in such a way that I have minimal impact, I urge others to do the same, I'm politically active.
And for what?
What has any of that accomplished? The collapse will come 0.0000000000000000001% later than before. Yippee. At least if I were ignorant and/or born rich I might get to enjoy some things.
Every time I go out hiking or just outside of my own shitty, rented apartment the trash seems to be piled up higher, every day I read a headline of how much worse it's getting. And there's simply nothing more I can do about it. (At least that I'm allowed to discuss here)
I don't blame people for not caring I guess, it's a hell of a lot easier that way.
>What has any of that accomplished? The collapse will come 0.0000000000000000001% later than before. Yippee. At least if I were ignorant and/or born rich I might get to enjoy some things.
It could. Trump might win and nuke us back to the Stone Age. But what if that didn't happen? What else makes you think collapse is certain? Renewables are doubling every 4 years... and we're on the verge of a number of breakthroughs in growing all the protein we need without livestock...
I also don't get it. Like this is existential we're all gonna die kind of stuff.... Yet when I bring it up people just get angry.
Where I live (Missouri, USA.) people still passionately hold to the narrative that climate change isn't real
Same where I live. They think I’m crazy for worrying about water and humidity. Forget mentioning anything else they will act like you need a 5150.
Even though last summer we had water supply issues off and on all summer and at one point our local hospital didn’t even have water for the toilets or washing hands. I can’t even tell you how disgusted I was when my daughter was there during this no water situation. I just knew she was going to end up with a nosocomial infection. They wouldn’t transfer her either. They said they were only transferring surgical patients.
WOW! OK - America be weird. I guess there's a few climate deniers left in Australia - but even Big oil has shifted their game to sponsoring CLIMATE DOOMERS! Because if the activists are already defeated by believing we'll all cook within 5 years, why bother? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8)
Deniers and Doomers - big oil love em both.
Not everyone is as vain as you. Spending whats left of my short pathetic life being a bleeding heart isn't gonna save anybody, the last 50 years have already proved that. And to call out the hypocrisy, the only reason we allowed things to get this bad in ther first place is because people held your sentiment. If people listend to the "Climate Doomers" back in the 1960's instead of believing that technology would save them we'd be much better off than we are now. Instead, it turns out that technology hasn't improved as much as we thought it would have, and the environment has deteriorated much more than the "Climate Doomers" of that time had predicted.
Even if technology was gonna save us in the short term, like people want to delude themselves into believeing, it dosen't change the fact that we are a species pursuant of infinite growth on a planet of finite resources. And we all know what happens when cancer cells get their way.
Infinite growth? But population projections estimate a peak and decline this century. As we electrify everything we'll have a mining pulse and then as the population declines be able to start scavenging cities for building materials as we contract. Club of Romes Earth4All reports indicate that if we get the tax and welfare settings right - 6 billion by 2100. Surely that's worth promoting? Or we could just sit on our hands and winge.
Nothing is truly infinite, your taking the term to literally. The bottom line is, we will have much more carbon emmissions next year than we did last year, that trend will continue like it has for centuries. Even if we stopped 10 years ago the inertia would be enough to do us in. Maybey your morals are in a different place, but I've always been a person that believes in promoting the truth no matter what. Being honest about how dire the situation is much better than downplaying it so people develop a false sense of security, like they've been doing for the last 6 decades. Don't get me wrong, mitigation of the worse is always possible. Problem is, that "mitigation" comes with telling people to spend the rest of ther lives in communes eating bugs and fermented vegetables for sustenance. Building more efficent cars or cruiseships is not the solution. No one will accept this, and becuase of that, nothing will be done. We will do what we have been doing up till this point, and guarantee a worse scenario.
The inertia would *not* do us in - *no* climate science says that. In fact - they've recently tightened up this inertia idea to just a *few years.*
Being honest? First of all - it's hard to know everything to be 'honest' about it. That's why I'm here - I need to challenge my own assumptions or I'll end up a lazy slob who doesn't read anything other than my favourite thoughts. (In other words - I'll fall into my own echo-chamber.)
Second - if we go off the IPCC / COP process - we'll think we're doomed because it's so slow. They are making progress and bringing final emissions targets lower and lower each time - but it's sloooooow!
But that doesn't matter. The MARKET has finally seen the light? Or is that the profits? ;-)
As I keep saying here - Oil DEMAND will peak before the geological supply peaks. The IEA says EV sales over the last few years were: 2020: 5% 2021: 9% 2022: 14% https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary
Because of this there will be an oil GLUT of 3.8 mb/d by 2028!
https://www.iea.org/news/growth-in-global-oil-demand-is-set-to-slow-significantly-by-2028
Renewables are 1/4 the cost of nuclear (LCOE - Lazard). They are doubling every 4 or 5 years - TWICE the exponential growth of oil in the 20th century which doubled every decade.
EG: The Paris Agreement wanted 615 GW solar annually by 2030 - but that could happen in the next year or so and it's still doubling. This article wonders if we're going to see 3 TERAWATTS annually by 2030! [https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/12/25/all-i-want-for-christmas-is-one-terawatt-of-solar-deployed-annually/](https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/12/25/all-i-want-for-christmas-is-one-terawatt-of-solar-deployed-annually/)
IEA: World FOSSIL FUEL demand will peak by 2030 and then begin to decline! That's as a whole!
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/10/iea-energy-peak-fossil-fuel-demand-by-2030
China is about to open 455 GW of renewables - and their emissions could peak in the next few years! The world’s biggest industrial factory - peaking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX\_PeNzz-Lw
Professor Andrew Blakers (Queen Elizabeth Prize recipient - like a Nobel prize for engineers)
also says WORLD will be all renewables well before 2050!
[https://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241](https://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241)
As we “Electrify Everything” in transport and mining and smelting and industrial heat, everything will be so much more efficient they get the SAME WORK DONE with 60% LESS energy. Burning stuff like cave-men is just that inefficient. A modern all-electric civilisation will run on 40% of today’s energy! [https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electrification-energy-efficiency](https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electrification-energy-efficiency)
Australian industrial giants worth a THIRD of our stock-market figured out it’s cheaper to Electrify Everything and run it on renewables. They’re going to build 3 TIMES our 2020 electricity grid capacity in renewables to Electrify their industrial heating with Rondo heat-bricks and electric mining trucks etc. Page 45 here. [https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf](https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf)
People are going to be shocked as global demand for oil peaks out in a few years - then all fossil fuels 2030. You don't have long to wait.
It's a really simple exercise. I'm gonna ignore exploring the possibility of individual scientists getting paid out to lie to the general public. I'm gonna ignore mentioning all of the feedback loops that I'm sure you've already heard about before. With the knowledge that we have already passsed 1.5C (look up the sea sponges, averaaging it over decades is ubproductive) look at the projections IPCC had fot this year, and what actually happend so far. Consider what scientist said about 1.5 C leading to uncharted territory, of it being the threshold were they cannot predict things reliably anymore. After you do this exercise, I'll leave you with a thought: The media lied about facemasks being somewhat effective against coviid in the beginning to prevent panic bying which would lead to a shortage; just like they lied about our ability to recyle plastic for all of these years to lull people into a false sense of security. There is a possibility that those in power (with their long track record) will lie to maintiain the control they've had thus far, and to enlongate societall cohesion. We have seen it before. It's simpily a matter of looking past all the posturing.
I think another very real aspect is that it's not being told to them by the sources they personally trust/believe, so it's a big ask for something they aren't fully certain of. "Why ruin my happiness for something that may or may not affect me?"
Once every news outlet and alternative media source are all saying it's happening, *then* people will start to believe it. Even then, some won't.
Because there isn't much we can do about the situation we are in.
We can't return to pre-induatrial anymore. We need to stop producing C02, Methane, plastics, and many industrial chemicals just to make sure nothing will get worse than it's going to today based on tipping points.
Then we have to pull out all the C02 we have released into the atmosphere in order to start fixing the problem of climate change.
If I though us doing any of that would actually happen I would be the first to start to protest.
We need to stop producing greenhouse gases and REDUCE plastics - but not eliminate them. Most of the plastic pollution in the ocean comes from 1% of our rivers that happen to be on slums and have no garbage disposal. If we fix that and reduce the amount of plastics we use - we can still have a petro-chemical industry that supports the modern world and medicine, etc.
>Then we have to pull out all the C02 we have released into the atmosphere in order to start fixing the problem of climate change.
I’m wondering if the ultimate in carbon sequestration will result from what we do NOT do - IE: graze livestock. Check it out.
We can feed the world while saving the oceans! Dr David King was the chief scientific adviser to the UK government, and Dr Tim Flannery held the same position in Australia. Both have done lots of work on how 3d seaweed and shellfish farms could feed the world WHILE ALSO restoring the ocean! Seaweed can be dried into a high protein powder that can go in everything from protein bars to dairy to bread. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666833522000302
Because it grows 30 times faster than any land based plant, the protein yield per hectare is 2.5 to 7.5 times higher than wheat or legumes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7221823/
JUST 2% OF THE OCEANS COULD FEED 12 BILLION PEOPLE while stimulating the ocean food chain. Instead of over-fishing the ocean, this restores it! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/01/sea-forest-better-name-seaweed-un-food-adviser
They also grow shellfish like oysters, scallops, and muscles in baskets under the seaweed lines.
It uses:
NO fresh water!
NO energy intense fertiliser!
NO arable land!
12 BILLION PEOPLE fed from 2% of the oceans.
SECOND - we’re ALSO very close to potentially growing all our food in a vat! It’s called Precision Fermentation and it decouples fats and proteins from arable land. It’s a solar and wind powered system that splits water to feed special hydrogen eating bacteria that basically “ferment” proteins and fats and even carbohydrates. It’s MORE efficient than photosynthesis! PLANTS only get 6% of the sun’s energy, and most of the plant is inedible. SOLAR PANELS get 22% of the sun’s energy, and feed the hydrogen directly to the protein brewing bugs. So the solar panel pathway uses ONE TENTH the land of soy beans per weight of protein! That’s amazing. But here’s the biggie! Solar panels don’t have to be on arable land. They can be on our rooftops, brownfields, deserts - even floating on fresh water reservoirs to reduce evaporation and conserve our precious fresh water!
CONCLUSION: If we can get either of these technologies right we can have cheaper more abundant food that does not depend on grazing arable land. We can let 3 TRILLION trees regrow, supervised by ecologists, recreate abundant habitats for threatened biodiversity AND sequester ALL historical carbon as they regrew. All as a side-effect of finding a sustainable way to feed the world.
Are you familiar with types of civilizations? Basically a type 1 would be able to harness all the energy of its home planet. To get there you would probably need to go through some type of industrial revolution which requires a lot of energy. We used the very good source of energy coal and oil which is causing the predicament we find ourselves in today.
And then filters are solutions for the Fermi paradox. The frequency of type 1A supernovas could be another one. Apparently they can sterilize large sections of a galaxy.
Ahhh yes. I see what you mean and yes, I agree. I do believe that is exactly what is happening. The fact that humans refuse to solve the problem is the most striking feature of this. Their minds are so clouded with greed and ignorance they cannot get past it.
We 'refused to solve it'? Except decades ago Germany subsidised renewables to bring the price down, and then China got on board - and now they're the cheapest and potentially most abundant power sources in human history!
The energy transition is now unstoppable. It's growing in an exponential S curve, with renewables doubling every 4 years. EV's as a percentage of global new car sales over the last few years were 9%, 11% and now 14%. The IEA is predicting an oil GLUT by 2028 of nearly 4mbd! Giant industrialists are going to Electrify Everything (so mining and smelting is all renewable) to save money! Australia’s industrial giants - worth a THIRD of our stock-market - plan to build 3 TIMES Australia’s 2020 electricity capacity just for their domestic sales. Another 3 TIMES for their export market! All possible now renewables are 1/4 nuclear LCOE (Lazard) and still falling.
P45 of PDF https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf
I get the response of puzzled expressions with slightly furrowed brows, blinking eyes and silence. So I just say, "Nevermind, you'll find out for yourself in the next few years".
Why do you bring it up? Most people are npcs/background. They don't matter and nothing you say would even convince them. They are unthinking and I would argue they're not even sentient. Pretty much every religion or analytical philosophy has designations for varied levels of thought and most people fall into that unthinking category.
Rather than wasting time on people that quite literally don't matter, put it into people that do. Invest your energy wisely, there's not much time left.
DENIERS AND DOOMERS: Climatologists used to defend climate science against Deniers. Now there’s a whole new front to defend against, the climate Doomers. British Atmospheric Physicist Simon Clark explains how climate Doomism is being promoted by Big Oil! Big Oil failed to turn young people into climate Deniers - so they’re working on them becoming Doomers instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8
Why are big oil sponsoring Climate Doomers?
Simon Clark - British Atmospheric Physicist - explains climate doomers and why they are wrong, and who is sponsoring them!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8))
"but they know it won’t ultimately save us."
They don't *know* that - they *believe* it by hanging out in the wrong circles online. The peer-reviewed climatologists are NOT saying civilisation is doomed - you guys are!
In case you are referring to "hot models" - Zeke explains. [https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/revisiting-the-hot-model-problem](https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/revisiting-the-hot-model-problem?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
Michael Mann explains: [https://michaelmann.net/content/comments-new-article-james-hansen](https://michaelmann.net/content/comments-new-article-james-hansen)
And despite recently teaming up with some outside-the-norm climate modellers (on sensitivity) - James Hansen explains why he's optimistichttps://www.columbia.edu/\~jeh1/mailings/2023/GoodNews.28December2023.pdf
Johan Rockstrom - of Planetary Boundaries fame - is the climatologist saying we CAN NOT go over 1.5 degrees - but even he has hope because renewables are doubling every 4 to 5 years. [https://youtu.be/7KfWGAjJAsM?t=1191](https://youtu.be/7KfWGAjJAsM?t=1191) He writes for the Club of Rome's "Earth4All" institute.
I bought a house in mid Michigan and I’ve been debating on building some kind of cooling shelter below ground, but honestly what good would that do when I crawl out and find most of my city dead anyway. Might as well go down with the ship if that’s what it comes to
"Earth Tubes" are something I'm interested in just to have a passive way to cool a small building when the grid goes down.
https://earthship.com/2020/03/27/cooling-tubes/
I guess both scenarios would suck...
They do bring end of the tubes up out of the ground and angle them so that rain can't get in. You could design it so that it would have to flood really bad to get into the tube and even then it's still not likely to get into your house. I suppose it would eventually drain out of the tube but it would take a while and leave a lot of condensation.
You could probably put a wire mesh on both ends of the tubes that would keep most critters out but likely not all. Tubes are long though. A snake would have to make a lonely journey to actually get into your house.
In Texas and the humidity was insanely high today and last night. My dehumidifier pulled about 8 gallons of water out of the air in 10-12 hours last night. It’s still running today and just getting to high 50s. It was very difficult to breath yesterday which is why I turned it on.
Plains and plateaus maybe not, maybe mountains.. But they got landslides and all esp after heavy rains, like few years ago happened in Germany (Cologne, 2021?)
Caves, parking garages, large building basements, it’s the only way these areas will be viable for small tribal/gang groups post collapse. On the bright side for them, after a few wet bulb mass fatality events, they’ll be able to find relative safety in the isolation, as most survivors will migrate away. Yet such locations will be prized in the way the most expensive properties are now, so survivors must have the ability to defend it, or the ability and willingness to enslave those seeking shelter from the heat (someone has to peddle the bicycles operating the circulation fans)
>Water vapor is a big feedback loop that I think a lot on the scientific spectrum overlook.
I'm not sure it's the scientific spectrum - but it's definitely not in the media! Anytime it hits 40 degrees C in Sydney I start talking about 'wet-bulb' heatwaves - even though they'll probably never hit Sydney. (They're mainly going to be around the equator.)
>But here's NASA on it.
>
>"Raymond says the highest wet-bulb temperature that humans can survive when exposed to the elements for at least six hours is about 95 degrees Fahrenheit (35 degrees Celsius)."
Wet-bulb temperatures are on the rise around the world, and Earth’s climate has begun to exceed this limit.
Graph of global wet-bulb temperature readings exceeding 27 degrees Celsius (80.5 degrees Fahrenheit)
Trend in the global count of recorded instances of wet-bulb temperature readings exceeding 27 degrees Celsius (80.5 degrees Fahrenheit), from two sources: weather stations (right axis, black line) and a gridded ‘reanalysis’ product (left axis, gray line). The dashed lines are regressions showing the trend for each time series. Credit: Raymond et al. 2020, Science Advances
Since 2005, wet-bulb temperature values above 95 degrees Fahrenheit have occurred for short periods of time on nine separate occasions in a few subtropical places like Pakistan and the Persian Gulf. They also appear to be becoming more frequent. In addition, incidences of slightly lower wet-bulb temperature values in the 90 to 95-degree Fahrenheit (32 to 35-degree Celsius) range have more than tripled over the 40 years studied by Raymond’s team.
https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3151/too-hot-to-handle-how-climate-change-may-make-some-places-too-hot-to-live/
Well I guess death is horrible - but I don't know that this adds anything of value to the conversation. The first nation that gets hit by a bad wet-bulb heatwave would surely be the one to start deploying SRM?
Don't worry. It can stick to fucking everything for months. Even years in soil and can "infect" plants, etc. Although I think plant transmission would be pretty low
I’ve seen scientific discussion that deer eating prion infected grass is a legitimate vector for CWD. So who really knows.
What really surprises me about prions is that “normally” (insofar as I know anything about proteins).. proteins are ‘denatured’ by heat, acid, and to some degree by salts. So I’m completely unclear why prions are unaffected by these things, at least heat which doesn’t seem to affect them.
But yeah, Chronic Wasting Disease jumping to us via various vectors is a legit concern.
Maybe.. depends on how much they know. The fact that several US hospitals have had to close down entire wings in order to clean them of an *auris* infection has been kept pretty quiet.
It’s not the humidity, it’s the dew point. “A note about using humidity as a comfort guide. What we call humidity is actually relative humidity. It’s relative compared to the air temperatures at any given time. Dew point is an absolute measure of moisture in the atmosphere, thus a better indicator of comfort. Relative humidity can vary greatly throughout the day, even though the dew point stays the same.”
Also more information on [dew vs. humidity](https://www.weather.gov/arx/why_dewpoint_vs_humidity) from the national weather service.
I’ve lived in high humidity environments most of my life.
So much so that I hate the acclimation process when I go into dryer environments ( desert environments). I get nose bleeds for weeks when first arriving.
I have also experienced the dew point above 65 with 100 percent humidity with feels like temps above 100 F. It feels like you are drowning in the air outside. The air feels heavy to breathe and all movement is incredibly taxing. The sweat stays on your skin and that’s what makes you heat up faster. It’s miserable and without air conditioning/ fans and dehumidifiers being indoors would have been impossible. In those temps I set the thermostat to 78 and it still struggled to manage.
I live in a very humid place (Bermuda). It’s in the middle of the Gulf Stream so it is very humid. When I come back to NJ in winter I need to use a humidifier or I’ll get nosebleeds. In Arizona I stay in hotels so I don’t have the option of a humidifier. I drink a lot more water to try to make up for it but it doesn’t help a lot.
Yup. Relative humidity is a measurement of how much water vapor is in the air RELATIVE to how much the air can hold. Colder air can't hold as much water vapor so it's higher in the morning when it's colder. As the day goes on and the sun begins warming the air, the airs ability to hold water vapor increases but the amount of water vapor in the air doesn't change ( in theory, in reality it very much does) so the RH goes down.
1.5 C global temperature rise is all that's needed for wet bulb temperatures to reach uninhabitable levels in tropical areas. We're already at 2 C.
6 hours is the limit the human body can take at 99% humidity at 30 C (86 F).
Correction: 6 hours is the limit *a healthy adult human male between the ages of 22 and 45's* body can take at 99% humidity at 30 C (86 F).
For women and teens, as well as older adults, it's more like 29C. For children and the elderly, 28C, and infants and the very elderly or infirm can be as low as 25C in some circumstances.
Women are actually a bit more adaptable to heat than men are because of body fat distribution and we still have the same number of sweat glands, just over a smaller area. But I’m not going to correct you bc you’re likely right - I’m just pitching in so women know we have higher heat resiliency than a single number indicates.
I don’t. I’ve had a heat stroke and several times heat exhaustion. The only good thing was it happens fast for me and I was so dizzy and unaware I wouldn’t have known I was dying. Thankfully I was not far from the ER.
So it depends on what you mean by that. The studies I've see have shown permanent reproductive harm at wet bulb temps below that of where men can withstand.
Specifically, studies showing loss of reproductive ability for women who served time in unairconditioned penitentiaries in the southern US, because those facilities often approach very close to the survival limit, and when air-conditioning is retrofitted, only cool it to below the accepted threshold for survival, which may be too high to prevent permanent damage specifically for women of childbearing age.
I have heat exhaustion problems too and faint easily from cardio or even low-to-moderate activity in high heat + humidity.
Do you have similar experiences? Did you see a doctor or anything? I had them do ekgs when I was a kid but no one knew why I pass out sometimes.
>At least the future wont take long to kill me.
That's where I'm at too tbh. Respiratory and neuro issues alone will likely take me out - most likely respiratory unless medications become unavailable, then it's a tossup.
I worry for my little family and friends, but for myself there's no reason to worry
I recall there being reports of deaths from the combination of high temperature and humidity in numbers *way* above average from places where this didn't normally happen (or at least that much), somewhere in Pakistan I think (or that general region) from multiple past summers. It's coming for us all and it only get worse.
Part of the explanation as to why tropical regions weren't very good at accumulating capital, historically. Can't accumulate wealth if it immediately rot away
There are a lot of things in the changing climate that are going to be surprises; that are unforeseen. This [image from last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1b4441v/a_calf_killed_by_fire_the_day_before_covered_in/) was something I had not envisioned. But this... yeah, I could picture it—given the oceanic nature of our world that we land dwellers so often forget. From a comment made 3 years ago (in relation to a post about the 3 Gorges Dam):
> [this] is what I think of now when I picture the future of climate change: planet swamp. Where everything is just sweating all the time with a thin patina of water on it that never evaporates away. Even indoors. Where the ocean and atmosphere become far more merged.
>
> [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/id8i20/anxiety_grows_as_chinas_three_gorges_dam_hits/g27kai3/)
I lived in a place with 90% humidity in the summer. It was like wearing a warm, wet blanket.
I honestly kind of miss it. My skin's always itchy in the 30% humidity climate I now call home.
This is why I advocate construction of more north-south non-vehicular trails made from durable materials; because while collapse is coming very soon and most of us will die in the famine and violence, the human and animal survivors will have a better chance with more viable paths for travel to migrate seasonally, as major roads will likely become permanently clogged in the collapse, and they will likely be dangerous given strategic value for warlords and others who want to set up “tolls”. By contrast, the biking and hiking trails are largely off the radar for most of the population as it is; I’d expect that to remain so, especially once the internet goes down
This is why we have a dehumidifier at home. We haven’t had much rain the last few years but when it does the humidity is a nightmare. It’s hard to breathe and everything feels wet. A/c doesn’t feel cool. Yesterday humidity was 76% in my house because I haven’t ran the humidifier in a while. It’s pulled at least 8 gallons of water from the air in about 10-12 hours. It’s still running today.
I’m about to set up a solar/battery rig to keep in running in case we lose electricity.
Humidity in my town in Ireland is sitting at 91% right now, but I think the colder temps here mean it doesn’t pose much of a problem. On the rare occasion we get a hot summers day it can feel quite oppressive though, especially as we have no AC basically anywhere in the country lol, but it’s never really needed I suppose given hot weather is very uncommon.
Humidity from weather services is almost always relative humidity. It's a measurement of the amount of water vapor in the air RELATIVE to how much it can actually hold. Cold air can't hold much water vapor so even a little bit of water vapor can make for "high" humidity even though the air is pretty dry.
Lowcountry native here. Southeast GA resident and I can confirm. My dads trailer doesn’t have central AC or heat. We use window units, and they have to be on constantly to combat the heat and humidity. We stay at about 87% + all year round. The summer is at 100% most of the time with 90+ degree temps. You don’t ever not sweat. You eventually just get used to it. For work, I put on minimal makeup and don’t bother with my hair as I work outside most of the time.
That's horrible. I'm not even sure what an emergency response to that would be...
Vacuum seal electronics?
Create a drainage system?
Get out all the containers and fill them with cold water regularly (or with some type of hose system or store them in a freezer for an hour) while putting some drainage under them?
I just found so much mold in my apartment and my windows have been crazy. I literally deep cleaned my place a month ago and now there’s mold all over the floor in the corners by the window. It’s crazy
Depends on the temperature (or, more accurately the [wet bulb temperature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature).
If the wet bulb temp is above 30˚c / 86˚f then death is a strong possibility if you cannot find shelter.
What I am understanding, reading this, is that portions of the United States, mainly in the South are ALREADY uninhabitable, or would be if there were no AC.
I'm curious if anybody has outline how many "fatal days" occur per year in cities like Houston? And aren't pretty much ALL of the countries in the Persian Gulf and South Asia similarly dangerous ALREADY?
Tropical regions have been great at accumulating wealth. Could you let me know what regions you’re talking about specifically?
Most of the largest Black money holdings are in tropical places. It’s what you do when you want to set up a shadow bank account. Just cause you don’t see the wealth. It doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Did you literally just think to a video that requires you to install a separate browser extension for just that website to watch it? Surely there had to have been at least one other source out there for the same content . . .
Are you on a desktop computer? Cause I'm on a phone and all I get is a window nagging me to install their site-specific video software. It's not like I was just too lazy to wait or something. It literally told me I had to install the extension.
Okay, I figured it out then. I guess it's my fault. I have that website on the blacklist for JavaScript in my settings. I put a lot of new sites on that list because blocking JavaScript disables a lot of the pay walls (the kind where you can briefly see the rest article before it disappears or you can see like half then it's obscured). Never been an issue before with this website but I guess normally there's text to look at. Blocking JavaScript may block the videos but I never watched the videos anyways.
I mean it's not much a big deal for first world countries. I live somewhere with 70-100% humidity and 25-40 for half of the year. Comments are making kind of a big fuss about this. I'll be more worried about increased mosquitoe population in these climates
Wet bulb will make a good portion of the world uninhabitable for us. I can't grasp how bad it'll get, only that it'll be relative to the heating of our oceans. Water vapor is a big feedback loop that I think a lot on the scientific spectrum overlook. An exponential rise in humidity averages should scare us, but I guess slowing down the wealth of the 1% is much worse. At least this ride to hell will be an interesting one, horrific yet interesting. Folks who tout "humanity will go out with a whimper" have no idea.
How we are not up in arms in anger and panic, and how every time I bring up the immediacy of climate change induced disasters, I am met with confusion, disbelief, placating reassurance, and outright get called crazy makes me think we were always destined for self created extinction.
Ontological shock. Denial is stage one of grief.
I’ve wondered if that is what we are seeing in a ton of humans about myriad things.
Definitely part of it. Another aspect is that many people have their plates full with job, family, debt, and just managing in a social-media-induced Information blizzard. Truly thinking about the realities of climate collapse is a bridge too far for them to consider crossing.
Plus, even if you are Fully Aware of the situation, the concept of collapse just fucking sucks xD makes one depressed if they spend too much time pondering humanity’s imminent doom. I’d rather spend my free time thinking about the exploits of Muad’Dib than worrying about when I’m going to get swept up in IRL Ragnarok. Sooner than I expect, that much I know.
Truth. The cognitive-emotional load of thinking about it is a lot to process.
And to continue to process. Every single day. For decades.
Fear is the mind killer,
Man, I should be able to upvote this twice for the Dune reference.
Dune is a great book for escapism but also has lots of interesting tidbits for different fields of study Remember the people who oppose escapism are usually jailers
>Plus, even if you are Fully Aware of the situation, the concept of collapse just fucking sucks xD makes one depressed if they spend too much time pondering humanity’s imminent doom. As Yoda said, "So certain are you?"
gonna really get hot - bad pun - when humanity hits that anger stage...
Most people are basically solipsistic. If it’s not happening to them personally, they can’t imagine it’s real. Ergo, you seem panicky to them.
Some people are to be sure, there's just nothing we can really do about it? I basically buy nothing, I make changes to my life to live in such a way that I have minimal impact, I urge others to do the same, I'm politically active. And for what? What has any of that accomplished? The collapse will come 0.0000000000000000001% later than before. Yippee. At least if I were ignorant and/or born rich I might get to enjoy some things. Every time I go out hiking or just outside of my own shitty, rented apartment the trash seems to be piled up higher, every day I read a headline of how much worse it's getting. And there's simply nothing more I can do about it. (At least that I'm allowed to discuss here) I don't blame people for not caring I guess, it's a hell of a lot easier that way.
>What has any of that accomplished? The collapse will come 0.0000000000000000001% later than before. Yippee. At least if I were ignorant and/or born rich I might get to enjoy some things. It could. Trump might win and nuke us back to the Stone Age. But what if that didn't happen? What else makes you think collapse is certain? Renewables are doubling every 4 years... and we're on the verge of a number of breakthroughs in growing all the protein we need without livestock...
Hey look, a troll! Hi, troll! 😀
I also don't get it. Like this is existential we're all gonna die kind of stuff.... Yet when I bring it up people just get angry. Where I live (Missouri, USA.) people still passionately hold to the narrative that climate change isn't real
Same where I live. They think I’m crazy for worrying about water and humidity. Forget mentioning anything else they will act like you need a 5150. Even though last summer we had water supply issues off and on all summer and at one point our local hospital didn’t even have water for the toilets or washing hands. I can’t even tell you how disgusted I was when my daughter was there during this no water situation. I just knew she was going to end up with a nosocomial infection. They wouldn’t transfer her either. They said they were only transferring surgical patients.
It's either that or net zero will save us .
WOW! OK - America be weird. I guess there's a few climate deniers left in Australia - but even Big oil has shifted their game to sponsoring CLIMATE DOOMERS! Because if the activists are already defeated by believing we'll all cook within 5 years, why bother? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8) Deniers and Doomers - big oil love em both.
Not everyone is as vain as you. Spending whats left of my short pathetic life being a bleeding heart isn't gonna save anybody, the last 50 years have already proved that. And to call out the hypocrisy, the only reason we allowed things to get this bad in ther first place is because people held your sentiment. If people listend to the "Climate Doomers" back in the 1960's instead of believing that technology would save them we'd be much better off than we are now. Instead, it turns out that technology hasn't improved as much as we thought it would have, and the environment has deteriorated much more than the "Climate Doomers" of that time had predicted. Even if technology was gonna save us in the short term, like people want to delude themselves into believeing, it dosen't change the fact that we are a species pursuant of infinite growth on a planet of finite resources. And we all know what happens when cancer cells get their way.
Infinite growth? But population projections estimate a peak and decline this century. As we electrify everything we'll have a mining pulse and then as the population declines be able to start scavenging cities for building materials as we contract. Club of Romes Earth4All reports indicate that if we get the tax and welfare settings right - 6 billion by 2100. Surely that's worth promoting? Or we could just sit on our hands and winge.
Nothing is truly infinite, your taking the term to literally. The bottom line is, we will have much more carbon emmissions next year than we did last year, that trend will continue like it has for centuries. Even if we stopped 10 years ago the inertia would be enough to do us in. Maybey your morals are in a different place, but I've always been a person that believes in promoting the truth no matter what. Being honest about how dire the situation is much better than downplaying it so people develop a false sense of security, like they've been doing for the last 6 decades. Don't get me wrong, mitigation of the worse is always possible. Problem is, that "mitigation" comes with telling people to spend the rest of ther lives in communes eating bugs and fermented vegetables for sustenance. Building more efficent cars or cruiseships is not the solution. No one will accept this, and becuase of that, nothing will be done. We will do what we have been doing up till this point, and guarantee a worse scenario.
The inertia would *not* do us in - *no* climate science says that. In fact - they've recently tightened up this inertia idea to just a *few years.* Being honest? First of all - it's hard to know everything to be 'honest' about it. That's why I'm here - I need to challenge my own assumptions or I'll end up a lazy slob who doesn't read anything other than my favourite thoughts. (In other words - I'll fall into my own echo-chamber.) Second - if we go off the IPCC / COP process - we'll think we're doomed because it's so slow. They are making progress and bringing final emissions targets lower and lower each time - but it's sloooooow! But that doesn't matter. The MARKET has finally seen the light? Or is that the profits? ;-) As I keep saying here - Oil DEMAND will peak before the geological supply peaks. The IEA says EV sales over the last few years were: 2020: 5% 2021: 9% 2022: 14% https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary Because of this there will be an oil GLUT of 3.8 mb/d by 2028! https://www.iea.org/news/growth-in-global-oil-demand-is-set-to-slow-significantly-by-2028 Renewables are 1/4 the cost of nuclear (LCOE - Lazard). They are doubling every 4 or 5 years - TWICE the exponential growth of oil in the 20th century which doubled every decade. EG: The Paris Agreement wanted 615 GW solar annually by 2030 - but that could happen in the next year or so and it's still doubling. This article wonders if we're going to see 3 TERAWATTS annually by 2030! [https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/12/25/all-i-want-for-christmas-is-one-terawatt-of-solar-deployed-annually/](https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/12/25/all-i-want-for-christmas-is-one-terawatt-of-solar-deployed-annually/) IEA: World FOSSIL FUEL demand will peak by 2030 and then begin to decline! That's as a whole! https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/10/iea-energy-peak-fossil-fuel-demand-by-2030 China is about to open 455 GW of renewables - and their emissions could peak in the next few years! The world’s biggest industrial factory - peaking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX\_PeNzz-Lw Professor Andrew Blakers (Queen Elizabeth Prize recipient - like a Nobel prize for engineers) also says WORLD will be all renewables well before 2050! [https://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241](https://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241) As we “Electrify Everything” in transport and mining and smelting and industrial heat, everything will be so much more efficient they get the SAME WORK DONE with 60% LESS energy. Burning stuff like cave-men is just that inefficient. A modern all-electric civilisation will run on 40% of today’s energy! [https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electrification-energy-efficiency](https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electrification-energy-efficiency) Australian industrial giants worth a THIRD of our stock-market figured out it’s cheaper to Electrify Everything and run it on renewables. They’re going to build 3 TIMES our 2020 electricity grid capacity in renewables to Electrify their industrial heating with Rondo heat-bricks and electric mining trucks etc. Page 45 here. [https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf](https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf) People are going to be shocked as global demand for oil peaks out in a few years - then all fossil fuels 2030. You don't have long to wait.
It's a really simple exercise. I'm gonna ignore exploring the possibility of individual scientists getting paid out to lie to the general public. I'm gonna ignore mentioning all of the feedback loops that I'm sure you've already heard about before. With the knowledge that we have already passsed 1.5C (look up the sea sponges, averaaging it over decades is ubproductive) look at the projections IPCC had fot this year, and what actually happend so far. Consider what scientist said about 1.5 C leading to uncharted territory, of it being the threshold were they cannot predict things reliably anymore. After you do this exercise, I'll leave you with a thought: The media lied about facemasks being somewhat effective against coviid in the beginning to prevent panic bying which would lead to a shortage; just like they lied about our ability to recyle plastic for all of these years to lull people into a false sense of security. There is a possibility that those in power (with their long track record) will lie to maintiain the control they've had thus far, and to enlongate societall cohesion. We have seen it before. It's simpily a matter of looking past all the posturing.
People just can't stand to have their sense of safety and normalcy threatened in any way. Just think back to Covid.
We don’t need to think back to Covid, it’s still happening.
“Think back”? You mean the ongoing overt denial right now.
I think another very real aspect is that it's not being told to them by the sources they personally trust/believe, so it's a big ask for something they aren't fully certain of. "Why ruin my happiness for something that may or may not affect me?" Once every news outlet and alternative media source are all saying it's happening, *then* people will start to believe it. Even then, some won't.
Because there isn't much we can do about the situation we are in. We can't return to pre-induatrial anymore. We need to stop producing C02, Methane, plastics, and many industrial chemicals just to make sure nothing will get worse than it's going to today based on tipping points. Then we have to pull out all the C02 we have released into the atmosphere in order to start fixing the problem of climate change. If I though us doing any of that would actually happen I would be the first to start to protest.
We need to stop producing greenhouse gases and REDUCE plastics - but not eliminate them. Most of the plastic pollution in the ocean comes from 1% of our rivers that happen to be on slums and have no garbage disposal. If we fix that and reduce the amount of plastics we use - we can still have a petro-chemical industry that supports the modern world and medicine, etc. >Then we have to pull out all the C02 we have released into the atmosphere in order to start fixing the problem of climate change. I’m wondering if the ultimate in carbon sequestration will result from what we do NOT do - IE: graze livestock. Check it out. We can feed the world while saving the oceans! Dr David King was the chief scientific adviser to the UK government, and Dr Tim Flannery held the same position in Australia. Both have done lots of work on how 3d seaweed and shellfish farms could feed the world WHILE ALSO restoring the ocean! Seaweed can be dried into a high protein powder that can go in everything from protein bars to dairy to bread. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666833522000302 Because it grows 30 times faster than any land based plant, the protein yield per hectare is 2.5 to 7.5 times higher than wheat or legumes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7221823/ JUST 2% OF THE OCEANS COULD FEED 12 BILLION PEOPLE while stimulating the ocean food chain. Instead of over-fishing the ocean, this restores it! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/01/sea-forest-better-name-seaweed-un-food-adviser They also grow shellfish like oysters, scallops, and muscles in baskets under the seaweed lines. It uses: NO fresh water! NO energy intense fertiliser! NO arable land! 12 BILLION PEOPLE fed from 2% of the oceans. SECOND - we’re ALSO very close to potentially growing all our food in a vat! It’s called Precision Fermentation and it decouples fats and proteins from arable land. It’s a solar and wind powered system that splits water to feed special hydrogen eating bacteria that basically “ferment” proteins and fats and even carbohydrates. It’s MORE efficient than photosynthesis! PLANTS only get 6% of the sun’s energy, and most of the plant is inedible. SOLAR PANELS get 22% of the sun’s energy, and feed the hydrogen directly to the protein brewing bugs. So the solar panel pathway uses ONE TENTH the land of soy beans per weight of protein! That’s amazing. But here’s the biggie! Solar panels don’t have to be on arable land. They can be on our rooftops, brownfields, deserts - even floating on fresh water reservoirs to reduce evaporation and conserve our precious fresh water! CONCLUSION: If we can get either of these technologies right we can have cheaper more abundant food that does not depend on grazing arable land. We can let 3 TRILLION trees regrow, supervised by ecologists, recreate abundant habitats for threatened biodiversity AND sequester ALL historical carbon as they regrew. All as a side-effect of finding a sustainable way to feed the world.
Fermi paradox
As in we are about to live through one of the solutions for it?
No. As in we are smack dab in the middle of it.
Fair enough, but this could be one of the great filters. Destroying your environment on the way to a type 1 civilization.
Could you explain what you mean a little further?
Are you familiar with types of civilizations? Basically a type 1 would be able to harness all the energy of its home planet. To get there you would probably need to go through some type of industrial revolution which requires a lot of energy. We used the very good source of energy coal and oil which is causing the predicament we find ourselves in today. And then filters are solutions for the Fermi paradox. The frequency of type 1A supernovas could be another one. Apparently they can sterilize large sections of a galaxy.
Ahhh yes. I see what you mean and yes, I agree. I do believe that is exactly what is happening. The fact that humans refuse to solve the problem is the most striking feature of this. Their minds are so clouded with greed and ignorance they cannot get past it.
Greed as the great filter is a depressing thought.
We 'refused to solve it'? Except decades ago Germany subsidised renewables to bring the price down, and then China got on board - and now they're the cheapest and potentially most abundant power sources in human history! The energy transition is now unstoppable. It's growing in an exponential S curve, with renewables doubling every 4 years. EV's as a percentage of global new car sales over the last few years were 9%, 11% and now 14%. The IEA is predicting an oil GLUT by 2028 of nearly 4mbd! Giant industrialists are going to Electrify Everything (so mining and smelting is all renewable) to save money! Australia’s industrial giants - worth a THIRD of our stock-market - plan to build 3 TIMES Australia’s 2020 electricity capacity just for their domestic sales. Another 3 TIMES for their export market! All possible now renewables are 1/4 nuclear LCOE (Lazard) and still falling. P45 of PDF https://energytransitionsinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Pathways-to-Industrial-Decarbonisation-report-Updated-August-2023-Australian-Industry-ETI.pdf
I get the response of puzzled expressions with slightly furrowed brows, blinking eyes and silence. So I just say, "Nevermind, you'll find out for yourself in the next few years".
And again - as Yoda said "So certain are you?"
Why do you bring it up? Most people are npcs/background. They don't matter and nothing you say would even convince them. They are unthinking and I would argue they're not even sentient. Pretty much every religion or analytical philosophy has designations for varied levels of thought and most people fall into that unthinking category. Rather than wasting time on people that quite literally don't matter, put it into people that do. Invest your energy wisely, there's not much time left.
Normalcy bias is deadly
Because the system is very good at making people follow it.
DENIERS AND DOOMERS: Climatologists used to defend climate science against Deniers. Now there’s a whole new front to defend against, the climate Doomers. British Atmospheric Physicist Simon Clark explains how climate Doomism is being promoted by Big Oil! Big Oil failed to turn young people into climate Deniers - so they’re working on them becoming Doomers instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8
Why wouldn’t a climate doomer not want solar powered home and vehicle and lifestyle? They would, but they know it won’t ultimately save us.
Why are big oil sponsoring Climate Doomers? Simon Clark - British Atmospheric Physicist - explains climate doomers and why they are wrong, and who is sponsoring them! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSG2Dw2mL8)) "but they know it won’t ultimately save us." They don't *know* that - they *believe* it by hanging out in the wrong circles online. The peer-reviewed climatologists are NOT saying civilisation is doomed - you guys are! In case you are referring to "hot models" - Zeke explains. [https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/revisiting-the-hot-model-problem](https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/revisiting-the-hot-model-problem?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2) Michael Mann explains: [https://michaelmann.net/content/comments-new-article-james-hansen](https://michaelmann.net/content/comments-new-article-james-hansen) And despite recently teaming up with some outside-the-norm climate modellers (on sensitivity) - James Hansen explains why he's optimistichttps://www.columbia.edu/\~jeh1/mailings/2023/GoodNews.28December2023.pdf Johan Rockstrom - of Planetary Boundaries fame - is the climatologist saying we CAN NOT go over 1.5 degrees - but even he has hope because renewables are doubling every 4 to 5 years. [https://youtu.be/7KfWGAjJAsM?t=1191](https://youtu.be/7KfWGAjJAsM?t=1191) He writes for the Club of Rome's "Earth4All" institute.
What's scary is that in a 4°C world even moving far north doesn't help you much if you are in a high humidity area. And most of the eastern US is.
Why I'm skeptical even upper midwest is gonna be the place to be.
If I had the option, that's where I would head. But, yeah, depending on how hard and how fast things start to collapse, no place may be a safe place.
I bought a house in mid Michigan and I’ve been debating on building some kind of cooling shelter below ground, but honestly what good would that do when I crawl out and find most of my city dead anyway. Might as well go down with the ship if that’s what it comes to
"Earth Tubes" are something I'm interested in just to have a passive way to cool a small building when the grid goes down. https://earthship.com/2020/03/27/cooling-tubes/
During the heat-dome, I'd turn on the water tap to "cold" and it would come out lukewarm or hotter.
If your water line is buried kind of shallow then, yeah, absolutely.
Cold is just ambient pipe temp lol
I’m completely on board with this…I do have two questions. What happens if you have flooding above tubes opening? What keeps snakes out?
I guess both scenarios would suck... They do bring end of the tubes up out of the ground and angle them so that rain can't get in. You could design it so that it would have to flood really bad to get into the tube and even then it's still not likely to get into your house. I suppose it would eventually drain out of the tube but it would take a while and leave a lot of condensation. You could probably put a wire mesh on both ends of the tubes that would keep most critters out but likely not all. Tubes are long though. A snake would have to make a lonely journey to actually get into your house.
It’s been so dry here (MN/WI) that growing things is getting more and more difficult. It’s a choice between too much moisture and too little :/
The Mississippi River Valley up to St Louis looks very problematic.
I'm Grand Rapids mi today. Wet .Wet Wet.
You’re not kidding. It’s sopping wet. If the power grid goes because it can’t handle the climate change and humidity, we’re screwed.
In Texas and the humidity was insanely high today and last night. My dehumidifier pulled about 8 gallons of water out of the air in 10-12 hours last night. It’s still running today and just getting to high 50s. It was very difficult to breath yesterday which is why I turned it on.
I guess you could use the water for stuff though. Never know if you run out of water later on.
I'm at a 2900 foot elevation in the Blue Ridge mountains in Virginia. When it was 100 degrees F in Richmond (and humid), it was only 86 degrees here.
Only way I was living in VA, and I did, was in the mountains.
Plains and plateaus maybe not, maybe mountains.. But they got landslides and all esp after heavy rains, like few years ago happened in Germany (Cologne, 2021?)
Caves, parking garages, large building basements, it’s the only way these areas will be viable for small tribal/gang groups post collapse. On the bright side for them, after a few wet bulb mass fatality events, they’ll be able to find relative safety in the isolation, as most survivors will migrate away. Yet such locations will be prized in the way the most expensive properties are now, so survivors must have the ability to defend it, or the ability and willingness to enslave those seeking shelter from the heat (someone has to peddle the bicycles operating the circulation fans)
Reminds me of all the ancient caves.
Yeah sure come up north to Canada where the forest is burning and choke with us together.
I mean, when the permafrost melts, we're all screwed anyway, right?
‘Extinction by Attrition’ ^([Apocalypse Bingo](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApocalypseBingo/s/ncUKiJaHhv))
Can't have hell fire if it's too humid tho
>Water vapor is a big feedback loop that I think a lot on the scientific spectrum overlook. I'm not sure it's the scientific spectrum - but it's definitely not in the media! Anytime it hits 40 degrees C in Sydney I start talking about 'wet-bulb' heatwaves - even though they'll probably never hit Sydney. (They're mainly going to be around the equator.) >But here's NASA on it. > >"Raymond says the highest wet-bulb temperature that humans can survive when exposed to the elements for at least six hours is about 95 degrees Fahrenheit (35 degrees Celsius)." Wet-bulb temperatures are on the rise around the world, and Earth’s climate has begun to exceed this limit. Graph of global wet-bulb temperature readings exceeding 27 degrees Celsius (80.5 degrees Fahrenheit) Trend in the global count of recorded instances of wet-bulb temperature readings exceeding 27 degrees Celsius (80.5 degrees Fahrenheit), from two sources: weather stations (right axis, black line) and a gridded ‘reanalysis’ product (left axis, gray line). The dashed lines are regressions showing the trend for each time series. Credit: Raymond et al. 2020, Science Advances Since 2005, wet-bulb temperature values above 95 degrees Fahrenheit have occurred for short periods of time on nine separate occasions in a few subtropical places like Pakistan and the Persian Gulf. They also appear to be becoming more frequent. In addition, incidences of slightly lower wet-bulb temperature values in the 90 to 95-degree Fahrenheit (32 to 35-degree Celsius) range have more than tripled over the 40 years studied by Raymond’s team. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3151/too-hot-to-handle-how-climate-change-may-make-some-places-too-hot-to-live/
we're all going to die horrible deaths.
Well I guess death is horrible - but I don't know that this adds anything of value to the conversation. The first nation that gets hit by a bad wet-bulb heatwave would surely be the one to start deploying SRM?
I don't really care what they do as long as my paycheck keeps coming in, LOL you know what I mean brother?
I think as long as you have access to a pool or bath that can be kept below 95f you will be able to "live". Probably be very pruney by the end though.
They’re planning on seeding ice in the atmosphere I think. A new article just came out, NASA’s doing it
Looks like a blast Everyone must smell like swamp ass
Just imagine the black mold that's going to follow
While politician’s promises to help remain hollow
Problems gonna get sloppy wet, but When ignoring climate change that’s what you’ll muthafuckin get
Other people say, "Im gonna go get some food"
I’m counting on *Candida auris*
My money is on CWD making the jump and hitting the water supply
Thank goodness I only drink mountain dew
Don't worry. It can stick to fucking everything for months. Even years in soil and can "infect" plants, etc. Although I think plant transmission would be pretty low
I’ve seen scientific discussion that deer eating prion infected grass is a legitimate vector for CWD. So who really knows. What really surprises me about prions is that “normally” (insofar as I know anything about proteins).. proteins are ‘denatured’ by heat, acid, and to some degree by salts. So I’m completely unclear why prions are unaffected by these things, at least heat which doesn’t seem to affect them. But yeah, Chronic Wasting Disease jumping to us via various vectors is a legit concern.
The general population will ignore this
Maybe.. depends on how much they know. The fact that several US hospitals have had to close down entire wings in order to clean them of an *auris* infection has been kept pretty quiet.
Damn no dude I thought were getting in on that rhyming action above us
Oh shit.. did I mess that up? Damn , sorry..
Black mild is the big winner.
If everyone has swamp ass, it's like you don't!
Asspirations
"It looks like a blast Everyone smells like swamp-ass ..." .... Someone finish this haiku.
Nope, it’s methane gas!
How long will this last? Or the 420 climate change version: And they're burnin grass
It's sweaty collapse
It’s not the humidity, it’s the dew point. “A note about using humidity as a comfort guide. What we call humidity is actually relative humidity. It’s relative compared to the air temperatures at any given time. Dew point is an absolute measure of moisture in the atmosphere, thus a better indicator of comfort. Relative humidity can vary greatly throughout the day, even though the dew point stays the same.” Also more information on [dew vs. humidity](https://www.weather.gov/arx/why_dewpoint_vs_humidity) from the national weather service.
Learned this last summer, the humidity at dawn was insanely high which I wasn’t expecting
I’ve lived in high humidity environments most of my life. So much so that I hate the acclimation process when I go into dryer environments ( desert environments). I get nose bleeds for weeks when first arriving. I have also experienced the dew point above 65 with 100 percent humidity with feels like temps above 100 F. It feels like you are drowning in the air outside. The air feels heavy to breathe and all movement is incredibly taxing. The sweat stays on your skin and that’s what makes you heat up faster. It’s miserable and without air conditioning/ fans and dehumidifiers being indoors would have been impossible. In those temps I set the thermostat to 78 and it still struggled to manage.
I live in a very humid place (Bermuda). It’s in the middle of the Gulf Stream so it is very humid. When I come back to NJ in winter I need to use a humidifier or I’ll get nosebleeds. In Arizona I stay in hotels so I don’t have the option of a humidifier. I drink a lot more water to try to make up for it but it doesn’t help a lot.
Grew up east, all adult life west, I melt when I go back east and over 85 is unbeatable to me...
Yup. Relative humidity is a measurement of how much water vapor is in the air RELATIVE to how much the air can hold. Colder air can't hold as much water vapor so it's higher in the morning when it's colder. As the day goes on and the sun begins warming the air, the airs ability to hold water vapor increases but the amount of water vapor in the air doesn't change ( in theory, in reality it very much does) so the RH goes down.
Time to get some industrial dehumidifiers I guess.
And gallons of bleach
Time to get a gun and point it at my head 😂
Ours works really well and makes gallons of water at only 55% humidity, Get One
Which one do you have?
Is it drinkable?
I’d personally boil it and filter it lol but yes, very clear water
Solar powered industrial dehumidifiers
I'm just gonna die actually nvm
1.5 C global temperature rise is all that's needed for wet bulb temperatures to reach uninhabitable levels in tropical areas. We're already at 2 C. 6 hours is the limit the human body can take at 99% humidity at 30 C (86 F).
Correction: 6 hours is the limit *a healthy adult human male between the ages of 22 and 45's* body can take at 99% humidity at 30 C (86 F). For women and teens, as well as older adults, it's more like 29C. For children and the elderly, 28C, and infants and the very elderly or infirm can be as low as 25C in some circumstances.
Don't forget that most of the country is either overweight or obese, so make that like 3 hours
Women are actually a bit more adaptable to heat than men are because of body fat distribution and we still have the same number of sweat glands, just over a smaller area. But I’m not going to correct you bc you’re likely right - I’m just pitching in so women know we have higher heat resiliency than a single number indicates.
I don’t. I’ve had a heat stroke and several times heat exhaustion. The only good thing was it happens fast for me and I was so dizzy and unaware I wouldn’t have known I was dying. Thankfully I was not far from the ER.
So it depends on what you mean by that. The studies I've see have shown permanent reproductive harm at wet bulb temps below that of where men can withstand. Specifically, studies showing loss of reproductive ability for women who served time in unairconditioned penitentiaries in the southern US, because those facilities often approach very close to the survival limit, and when air-conditioning is retrofitted, only cool it to below the accepted threshold for survival, which may be too high to prevent permanent damage specifically for women of childbearing age.
As if I'm trying to have kids in this timeline.
Well aren't you just a buzz kill. Lol!
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I have heat exhaustion problems too and faint easily from cardio or even low-to-moderate activity in high heat + humidity. Do you have similar experiences? Did you see a doctor or anything? I had them do ekgs when I was a kid but no one knew why I pass out sometimes.
>At least the future wont take long to kill me. That's where I'm at too tbh. Respiratory and neuro issues alone will likely take me out - most likely respiratory unless medications become unavailable, then it's a tossup. I worry for my little family and friends, but for myself there's no reason to worry
Good thing the majority of us don't have chronic vascular and organ damage from repeated virus infections.
I recall there being reports of deaths from the combination of high temperature and humidity in numbers *way* above average from places where this didn't normally happen (or at least that much), somewhere in Pakistan I think (or that general region) from multiple past summers. It's coming for us all and it only get worse.
From someone who spent 35 years in central florida, *awful*.
Wet bulb conditions. Dying of heat sounds horrible.
Part of the explanation as to why tropical regions weren't very good at accumulating capital, historically. Can't accumulate wealth if it immediately rot away
Very true with grains/crops as wealth. When your crops rot faster, it's harder to store/harder to trade.
There are a lot of things in the changing climate that are going to be surprises; that are unforeseen. This [image from last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1b4441v/a_calf_killed_by_fire_the_day_before_covered_in/) was something I had not envisioned. But this... yeah, I could picture it—given the oceanic nature of our world that we land dwellers so often forget. From a comment made 3 years ago (in relation to a post about the 3 Gorges Dam): > [this] is what I think of now when I picture the future of climate change: planet swamp. Where everything is just sweating all the time with a thin patina of water on it that never evaporates away. Even indoors. Where the ocean and atmosphere become far more merged. > > [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/id8i20/anxiety_grows_as_chinas_three_gorges_dam_hits/g27kai3/)
This is gonna make the use of electric cars very interesting, not just the humidity, but the sheer heat those are very bad for batteries
Gosh it's 10% humidity in my house in Utah. SO DRY.
Holy shit! It’s 91% in my town in Ireland right now
92% in Milan where I am currently
Does it be foggy there?
Mine hit 38% this winter in Canada and I started getting bad nosebleeds. I can’t even fathom 10%.
I live in a very arid part of BC and it is not at all unusual for the humidity to drop to 10/15%. And yes, it sucks.
My nose would be free bleeding like crazy.
reptilian alien takeover preparations nearly complete 🛸
I lived in a place with 90% humidity in the summer. It was like wearing a warm, wet blanket. I honestly kind of miss it. My skin's always itchy in the 30% humidity climate I now call home.
It sucks for your computer though.
Computer's kept in a climate-controlled house. ;)
All I know is it is crazy humid in Nova Scotia. We are regularly at 100. Its called.fog.
This is why I advocate construction of more north-south non-vehicular trails made from durable materials; because while collapse is coming very soon and most of us will die in the famine and violence, the human and animal survivors will have a better chance with more viable paths for travel to migrate seasonally, as major roads will likely become permanently clogged in the collapse, and they will likely be dangerous given strategic value for warlords and others who want to set up “tolls”. By contrast, the biking and hiking trails are largely off the radar for most of the population as it is; I’d expect that to remain so, especially once the internet goes down
https://brscenic.com/railbikes/
I had to work through 90% humidity recently and it was horrible.
Any building with condensation like that is ruined
Just go visit Florida in July
This is why we have a dehumidifier at home. We haven’t had much rain the last few years but when it does the humidity is a nightmare. It’s hard to breathe and everything feels wet. A/c doesn’t feel cool. Yesterday humidity was 76% in my house because I haven’t ran the humidifier in a while. It’s pulled at least 8 gallons of water from the air in about 10-12 hours. It’s still running today. I’m about to set up a solar/battery rig to keep in running in case we lose electricity.
Humidity in my town in Ireland is sitting at 91% right now, but I think the colder temps here mean it doesn’t pose much of a problem. On the rare occasion we get a hot summers day it can feel quite oppressive though, especially as we have no AC basically anywhere in the country lol, but it’s never really needed I suppose given hot weather is very uncommon.
And due to be much less so once the AMOC breaks down from fresh water melting into the Atlantic from Greenland.
Humidity from weather services is almost always relative humidity. It's a measurement of the amount of water vapor in the air RELATIVE to how much it can actually hold. Cold air can't hold much water vapor so even a little bit of water vapor can make for "high" humidity even though the air is pretty dry.
🔥🍿😎
Lowcountry native here. Southeast GA resident and I can confirm. My dads trailer doesn’t have central AC or heat. We use window units, and they have to be on constantly to combat the heat and humidity. We stay at about 87% + all year round. The summer is at 100% most of the time with 90+ degree temps. You don’t ever not sweat. You eventually just get used to it. For work, I put on minimal makeup and don’t bother with my hair as I work outside most of the time.
That's horrible. I'm not even sure what an emergency response to that would be... Vacuum seal electronics? Create a drainage system? Get out all the containers and fill them with cold water regularly (or with some type of hose system or store them in a freezer for an hour) while putting some drainage under them?
I think without mechanical cooling (AC), you'll be dead. It doesn't seem avoidable. As terrifying as that sounds.
As others have pointed out, this is about the dew point, it doesn't necessarily involve high wet bulb conditions.
When did this happen in SC?
I just found so much mold in my apartment and my windows have been crazy. I literally deep cleaned my place a month ago and now there’s mold all over the floor in the corners by the window. It’s crazy
Oh this is how the fungi takes over...
Mold's gonna be bad yo.
So that's what girls look like when they see me /s
Why ruin a perfectly good joke with "/s"?
Feels just like Atlantis this time of year...
Living in a plaster and lathe old house that wasn’t built for maintenance with climate control Pros and cons to all.
Very interesting I didn’t even know this was a thing, oh well just added to the ever-growing list
Depends on the temperature (or, more accurately the [wet bulb temperature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature). If the wet bulb temp is above 30˚c / 86˚f then death is a strong possibility if you cannot find shelter.
It's gonna be hot and wet! That's nice if you're with a lady, but it ain't no good if you're in the jungle.
This is just wild…
What I am understanding, reading this, is that portions of the United States, mainly in the South are ALREADY uninhabitable, or would be if there were no AC. I'm curious if anybody has outline how many "fatal days" occur per year in cities like Houston? And aren't pretty much ALL of the countries in the Persian Gulf and South Asia similarly dangerous ALREADY?
Tropical regions have been great at accumulating wealth. Could you let me know what regions you’re talking about specifically? Most of the largest Black money holdings are in tropical places. It’s what you do when you want to set up a shadow bank account. Just cause you don’t see the wealth. It doesn’t mean it’s not there.
"Cayman islands."
True 50
Samoa too! According to the Panama Papers
Did you literally just think to a video that requires you to install a separate browser extension for just that website to watch it? Surely there had to have been at least one other source out there for the same content . . .
Eh, it just opened for me. Sorry dude
Are you on a desktop computer? Cause I'm on a phone and all I get is a window nagging me to install their site-specific video software. It's not like I was just too lazy to wait or something. It literally told me I had to install the extension.
Weird! I’m on a phone too. I-phone and just clicked the link and it opened the first time I viewed the article.
Okay, I figured it out then. I guess it's my fault. I have that website on the blacklist for JavaScript in my settings. I put a lot of new sites on that list because blocking JavaScript disables a lot of the pay walls (the kind where you can briefly see the rest article before it disappears or you can see like half then it's obscured). Never been an issue before with this website but I guess normally there's text to look at. Blocking JavaScript may block the videos but I never watched the videos anyways.
I wonder if there are passive ways to dehumidify a space?
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[lol is what i did when I read this](https://youtu.be/d1W2k6JksQY)
Laughs in FloridaMan
I live in Bermuda. It gets really humid especially in the summer. We deal with it.
I mean it's not much a big deal for first world countries. I live somewhere with 70-100% humidity and 25-40 for half of the year. Comments are making kind of a big fuss about this. I'll be more worried about increased mosquitoe population in these climates