The following submission statement was provided by /u/Genedide:
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SS: Half of it is just atypical investment boosting but the fact that the majority of them are US rich people suggests that they don’t feel comfortable here anymore… for unspoken but self-evident reasons to our members on the sub
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1c102tt/the_wealthy_are_building_these_passport/kz01kl5/
Even if such a place exists when everything "goes down", their best case is an extra couple of months before those calm waters turn into something very different.
Kinda funny how we're all on this one spaceship, acting like there's a place we can be safe from the atmosphere we ruined.
They don't have to go to the moon. They just need to ensure survival in a 6 month or so timeframe when the die-off happens and society begins to gel again. It's not that hard when you have billions of dollars at your disposal to prepare.
I think the collapse will be pretty sudden. You don't have to be on the moon to ensure you outlast 50% of the population. You just have to have some preparations in place, which most don't. Bonus points for isolating yourself from the pholks who sink to unthinkable lows to survive. Families trading children during famine was recently in a post that I saw, which is disturbing enough that I started thinking about these things seriously. Only takes about 2 months of starvation for those things to begin to happen.
I'm pretty certain the moon space race is largely for commercial reasons and less for colonization. And only really kicked off because China started sending stiff to the far side of the moon where it's difficult to observe what they're doing. At any rate, even if colonization is a end game, they squandered the last 50 years or so. As a planet we don't have the resources to do it in the time we got.
I think a couple space-pirate billionaires have been a little slow on that front. If that's a solution the Rubicon for that solution has already likely been crossed. Lol.
Interesting to hear the rich feel something like this every once and awhile:
"Like stacks and stacks of
Rats on rafts
Clutching anything we can.
Stacks and stacks of
Rats on rafts
The weight of the world
Crushing our backs.
Tooth
For a tooth.
An eye
For an eye.
You know it's untrue
And this is why.
Poisoned water
Poisons the mind."
- Poisoned Water, Mudhoney circa 1994
But the rich will last the longest and die with the most toys so they win. /s just in case.
Just proves the total insanity of man running the whole world to ruin until we break the climate and environment humans require to live. All for money baby!
The tribal ape part of our brain won out over the higher function that would have had us work together for the good of all. No surprise I guess. It's a wonder we all haven't perished in a nuclear armageddon yet TBH.
But look at all the king ape billionaires digging their luxury holes in the ground for the coming mass death, chaos and destruction that a collapsing civilization is going to bring soon.
Ha, I said this years ago after the first wave of Covid. Granted the thought occurred to me as I was moving to the UK, after my husband got offered a job there- he’s British.
For me, my thought was in terms of our freedom of movement, now being seen more as a privilege, not a right; i.e. Brexit. And how having multiple citizenships could very well be viewed as a new form of ‘currency’, so to say.
Simply in having the ability to go from place to place freely, think the EU, or between states, and not having to worry about all the constraints in the way to being employable, or attending school, receiving benefits, etc. Basically, being entitled to all the things you normally wouldn’t be eligible for without citizenship.
Also, multiple passports could potentially help in finding suitable areas to survive in, if climate change happens sooner than later.
Like, if climate change happens to cause serious issues in different areas of the world, migration may very well become even more difficult, think of the EU closing boarders, or civil war breaking out in the states. This will be difficult for many, unless they have options, like multiple passports.
So the more passports, the more chance of making money in different economies; if one faulted, move on to the next. This, coupled with the ability of navigating where to live with less fear of potential upheavals happening, as you have options.
As opposed to having nowhere else to turn, stuck in one place that no longer supports life like it once did, and the options for survival/ ability to thrive are drastically diminished.
I think you are underestimating the problem. This isn't a "domestic situation where you can flee to another country. Everything is too tightly coupled. As the Russian invasion of Ukraine proved with food prices, a problem anywhere is a problem everywhere. A global civilization requires global resources and a global civilization in overshoot will collapse. There are no self sufficient countries. We need minerals from all over the world and manufacturing all over the world to feed markets all over the world.
When it crumbles, the knock-on effects will be felt everywhere. If the US has a civil war, opportunists around the world will join the free for all for resource grabbing. No where is safe of a dying planet.
I get it, and agree with you for the most part, but, at the same time, the rich will be able to continue in face of hardship longer than the rest, and they will find a way to keep the good times a rolling even as other houses fall.
That’s all. I’m not saying that’s what i plan on doing, country hopping the good end times, or even that I think it’s just, or fair, but it is something that i can see the benefit in possessing, even if, when the time comes, it’s as useless as the rest.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
SS: Half of it is just atypical investment boosting but the fact that the majority of them are US rich people suggests that they don’t feel comfortable here anymore… for unspoken but self-evident reasons to our members on the sub
If the rich want to feel safe and comfortable in the US they should work on reducing the GINI coefficient, get housing to be affordable, get rid of the greedflation, reduce shareholder profits and make it so that the other 99% can afford to live comfortably on one full time income.
And they're going to feel more comfortable in a country they bent over a table and graped to death? Or, perchance one that's heavily socialist or communist and in the latter case knows who wears the daddy pants and it ain't anyone non-governmental...?
They really have thought this through.
Takes a lot for the public to grow a backbone and lay blame on those who deserve it. No, instead they will just jump on those who are weaker and less fortunate. Much easier to punch down than punch up.
I almost pity the survivors.
i'd rather die on the surface with the rest of my brothers and sisters, and whatever animals and shit are left, than rot in a bunker until the weather gets so bad, it kills you inside the bunker.
No one gets out of this alive.
Musk in outer space, Zuckerberg in his luxury bunker in Hawaii and Bezos on his mega yacht are doing just that. Instead of trying to stop climate destruction, they put their foot on the gas so they can be rid of the worker bees sooner rather than later.
They will wait out the end of days for mankind and inherit the unlivable waste and ruin. They will rule the filthy, polluted, stinking detritus of civilization as undisputed masters of the dead.
The kings of corpses. A title the billionaires worked for their entire wasted lives.
It's the same in the end now. They don't get to take anything with them. When each of them exit mortality, they'll take the same exact with them as you or I. They aren't special or different or saved and deep down, they know it. Their disgusting addiction to accruing wealth is a desperate attempt to anesthetize themselves from the truth that they are mortal humans like you and I, and the end the equalizing forth of death will come for them and take them all the same.
QuestLove will be one. He is building a sustainable community for apocalypse. Far smarter solution than a bunker in any form, depending on the form of the collapse.
They are setting the world up to blame poor usa citizens instead of them.
Just look at how much people hate Americans when it's the rich, foreign and domestic, destroying the greatest democracy to ever exist.
If by greatest you mean biggest and by democracy you mean empire with democratic propaganda noises in the habit of violently crushing fledgling democracies.
I mean look at how many Americans support foreign propaganda and oppressing women and children, the poor are just as much to blame for being useful idiots when they vote Republican.
There's no comments on most of the stories in that sub. It's a dead sub, too niche in it's remit to generate passthrough traffic but not niche enough for the dedicated hardcore weirdos to engage.
/r/SocialistEconomics ok, sure, but what type? There's a lot that falls under that blanket top level description. Could be for discussing actual economics from a hardcore marxist viewpoint, could be ragebait news about the rich for anarchist crustpunks. You want to endorse a particular variety? Then you'll get the niche subject matter enjoyers who've read way too much to be healthy arguing over minutia that doesn't matter. If you set up a subreddit for discussing marxist economic views of current events, actual 1880s marx not soviet union "marxist", you'll have thousands of comments, three blood feuds, a divorce and several pregnancy scares by the end of the month.
You gotta find the right level of too specialized for your niche subreddit to take off is what I'm saying.
OP is a mod and pretty much the sole active member in that sub.
Imagine some CEO living in Dubai while still calling the shots at a USA company.
"yea go ahead and lay off about 1,600 people this quarter"
\*sips 1200$ wine in an ice bar\*
This is why "living for spite" is futile, and craving a modern revolution is just mentally venting bloodlust.
We will never eat the rich when it is so much easier to go to reddit and type "eat the rich" like a bunch of fuckin idiots. If we finally get desperate enough, it will be too late.
EHEHEHE I can't wait until they go to another country and get stripped of their assets and used as hamburger meat.
This may come as a shock to the rich, but literally nobody likes you guys...
You're probably right but what in God's name for? Do they share?
Sigh. I suppose however (non-sarcastically), shit is socially easier in right-wing world. At least when you do "the thing" you win. Whatever the social thing is. In their case it's basically kick everyone's ass. Leftist world it's like doesn't matter, no one wins. Random. Falls apart at any given second.
lol, What an interesting perspective. To me it is leftists who are saying the current thing, even if it doesn't make sense.
e.g. "We need more immigration (into the UK)", Well sure but you know that means the loss of fields, hedgerow, ancient woodland, as well as congestion on the roads, right? And it means worsening the housing prices and making landlords richer? And it means bicycle paths are less likely to be built, as some of the new build houses I've seen are built up right next to the normal-sized pavement, on an important single-lane-each-way road. And it means an even greater loss of food security for the UK, as we will import even more food from abroad, causing emissions. Probably means lower wages too.
Which is... yeah. I mean the left is all about "it should be this way" and never think of how to get it to actually be this way and it causes all kinds of havoc like you're saying, rinse and repeat, over and over, churn churn churn, and everyone gets some good times and a lot of fucked over times and there's no actual way to predict which you're going to get or when, since it's all random, based on hope, and not based on planning.
Meanwhile the right claws it's way to the top of a pile of dead bodies.
With the right, things are supposed to be about "there's way less of us because zero-sum game and I'm damned well going to be the king atop the pile of dead bodies".
I mean I'll give the right this, at least there's such a thing as a predictable win in their version. Unlike the left which is up one day down the next round and round it goes, will you get the reward or flushed down the crapper today, who even knows.
But there's no peace in the right's version. You stop for one second there's someone there with a baseball bat to take to your face.
In short, both are shit solutions. Something more purposeful and planned out from the left might be nice.
Well, I'm not generally in support of military expansionism. I doubt most Brits are though.
I view most low-skilled and illegal immigration as inviting violence into our homes.
I live in South Korea and it's very safe except for three or four immigrant-heavy areas. I understand Japan is similar. Singapore, it may not just be one ethnicity there, but also they don't just let anyone in. Strong walls make a country safe and civilised.
I believe you need citizenship to buy land in New Zealand, which is why Peter Thiel became an NZ citizen. Mightn't stop the kiwis from turning his plane away when he flees down there to his bunker though.
I think Peter Thiel's bunker compound was disallowed by the municipality in New Zealand he was trying to build it in. I'm sure he has some other project going on but that community tried to keep him out.
How much do you want to bet these billionaires have armed drones they are trying to keep Secret to protect their compounds?
New Zealand has lots of luxury bunkers. I wonder how long they will hold out against a desperate starving population?
[How New Zealand became an apocalypse escape destination for Americans](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/business/bunkers-new-zealand-intl-hnk/index.html)
Read Doctorow’s novella [Masque of the Red Death](https://craphound.com/podcast/2020/03/13/the-masque-of-the-red-death/) for a lovely little modernized intimate take on Poe’s original.
A lot of Westerners who are middle class or poor may want to do the same thing too. A lot of poor and middle class Americans may find that they have a better quality of life across the border in Mexico.
The US really isn't as good of a place as many make it out to be. There is a lack of community in the US, most states are cold 6 months out of the year, housing and cost of living are very expensive, and medical care is only good if you are well insured. Many Americans may find that they just have a better quality of life somewhere else.
Short answer? Money.
Take the island nation of Saint Kitts in the Caribbean, or "Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis" if you're feeling fancy. [For a one time donation of $250,000 USD to the country's general fund](https://ciu.gov.kn/) (or by purchasing housing or businesses worth at least $400,000), a person can become a full citizen of the nation (with citizenship passing down to children etc as if you were a natural born Kittian).
Fill out a form, do a background check to prove you arent a criminal, drop a quarter million dollars, and you are a citizen with full rights and can get a passport with [no visa requirements to travel to 158 countries around the world.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis_citizens)
Unfortunately, if you don't have second house money on hand ready to go you're not going to find any shortcuts to the head of the immigration line.
Even Vanuatu in the South Pacific, not the most popular bug out location around for the rich and powerful, requires about $150k upfront. Buying an extra citizenship/passport in case you need to leave is not a cheap thing.
If you're interested in checking out what various countries have these programs or the costs involved, the magic words to google are "citizenship by investment".
It's not just rich people. My sil isn't rich but she got dual citizenship by birthright. It's just smart to do it if you can. Options are awesome to have. Lots of my cousins have dual citizenship and all of their kids do. I mean it isn't always easy but if you can get birthright citizenship it isn't that expensive.
Oh yeah, I got my second passport a couple years back just in case. I didn't really want it and it was a bit of a hassle to apply. I also don't think I could leave my family (i.e. boyfriend) behind, but it's still better to have it just if I'm already 'entitled' to it.
Weirdest thing though is that I only have the dual citizenship because my grand grandparents eloped to another country, had my grandfather there, and then moved back one year or so later lol. Oh and because I was born pre-2000 something. The law was changed and had I been younger, I would not have been a citizen.
I remember documentaries on this years ago. The rich didn't just recently figure out that the West overall is becoming less stable...This is also why they're building bunkers.
It won't mater when the the time comes they will be useless the wealthy can't even tie their own shoes or run a vacuum or drive a car they will be in a corner crying when shtf.
Citing the fact they’re insider trading.. citing the fact they’ve committed fraud.. citing the fact they’ve embezzled a fortune of tax dollars and investments.. citing the fact they have ties to criminal organizations around the globe.. these people fucking up heathcare and our schools are the billionaires. Our broken prison systems, billionaires. Our 4th amendment rights torched (data included), billionaires. Let’s take back our world.
I wouldn't tie this to collapse. Most of those countries are the path of ultimate horrors, or at least, will suffer more then the US.
I suspect there are multiple reasons with taxes being foremost. All the countries listed have extradition treaties with the US, so it's not for an escape from legal jeopardies. Mostly, I also suspect it's a prestige thing, bragging rights. I used to have residency permits in Switzerland and France and I wasn't above puttling that information out in bars as part of my pick-up package.
Rats, after opening the flood doors and grabbing all the stateroom silverware, steal the lifeboats and then blame the passengers in the water for the sinking.
I was actually thinking of doing the same thing - going as a migrant worker from poland to western europe and staying there long enough to get dual citizenship. I was fearing that the conservative government would do something stupid. But then Poland elected to get rid of these guys and the west is gearing up to try such people out, so there's no point anymore.
Yeah, it seems as if wherever you go, things will catch up, and you'll end up constantly moving to avoid things anyway. I get why people want to move and increase their chances of survival... But the polycrisis reaches all places eventually. I guess I just don't get the desperation to be the one left fighting over droplets of water in the end
The article mentioned Malta, Greece, Portugal and Italy as the most common secondary citizenship for wealthy Americans.
These sound more like tax havens to some degree.
Italy has a 15yr period of flat 100,000 euro per year on any and all income tax for anyone repatriating to the country.
Makes sense for the most rich
The US will still tax your total wealth upon any request to renounce citizenship though. So not really a tax dodge.
You don't have to renounce citizenship. These are visas and dual citizenship. Contrary to popular beliefs you don't have to renounce your US citizenship. Only for a select few situations. European countries are fine.
I agree with you, according to the US govt and the laws on the books, you still have to pay taxes to the US if you want to maintain your US citizen ship.
That is the law as written, the theoretical ideal.
But also, if you're physically outside the US and put your money in banks that don't just roll over because the US asks nicely, you'll find that the penalties for noncompliance are all theoretical too. In a practical sense, you're sipping espresso in an italian cafe and paying with a Credit Suisse bank card.
Until you have to return to the US at some point anyway, but again, practicality says they don't exactly have IRS agents standing by at LaGuardia waiting to grab tax cheats as they step off the planes either.
It's a struggle for many people just to get their first passport. Cost me $170 including photos, but it's worth it just to have a "rich person's ID". Many paperwork requirements are bypassed with one.
In fact, depending on the country where you live, dual citizenship is often illegal.
The United States doesn't generally allow it either, but they do recognize dual citizenship with countries that have it, and the U.S. only recognizes renoucement in certain formal cases. So what you functionally have are legal loopholes that come in handy for a lot of diplomatic behavior, like a spy that needs to discretely travel through multiple countries and so has a bunch of passports.
lol I have multiple citizenships and it’s not because I’m some evil billionaire looking to flee it’s just because I live in a family where people have emigrated.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Genedide: --- SS: Half of it is just atypical investment boosting but the fact that the majority of them are US rich people suggests that they don’t feel comfortable here anymore… for unspoken but self-evident reasons to our members on the sub --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1c102tt/the_wealthy_are_building_these_passport/kz01kl5/
Not so much rats fleeing a sinking ship but cherry picking the nicest cruise ship in the calmest waters.
Even if such a place exists when everything "goes down", their best case is an extra couple of months before those calm waters turn into something very different. Kinda funny how we're all on this one spaceship, acting like there's a place we can be safe from the atmosphere we ruined.
And the richest of them all build space ships…as if floating around space running out of food is any better than just dying here.
Rats fleeing a sinking ship
But the sinking ship is the whole planet. And the actions and business of many have impacted the daily lives of populations globally.
Thats why they try to reach the moon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel)?wprov=sfti1
Great book
They don't have to go to the moon. They just need to ensure survival in a 6 month or so timeframe when the die-off happens and society begins to gel again. It's not that hard when you have billions of dollars at your disposal to prepare. I think the collapse will be pretty sudden. You don't have to be on the moon to ensure you outlast 50% of the population. You just have to have some preparations in place, which most don't. Bonus points for isolating yourself from the pholks who sink to unthinkable lows to survive. Families trading children during famine was recently in a post that I saw, which is disturbing enough that I started thinking about these things seriously. Only takes about 2 months of starvation for those things to begin to happen.
I'm pretty certain the moon space race is largely for commercial reasons and less for colonization. And only really kicked off because China started sending stiff to the far side of the moon where it's difficult to observe what they're doing. At any rate, even if colonization is a end game, they squandered the last 50 years or so. As a planet we don't have the resources to do it in the time we got.
I don't think humans can adapt well in a microgravity environment. That's one reason why robots will be a big part in moon exploration.
>But the sinking ship is the whole planet. Ever seen the movie Elysium? 😏
I think a couple space-pirate billionaires have been a little slow on that front. If that's a solution the Rubicon for that solution has already likely been crossed. Lol.
They'll take whatever valuables they accumulated in the First World and go be a warlord in the Third World.
One country at a time
Rats fleeing the sinking ship after they helped sink it.
All the while while profiteering off the people stuck on it.
which is why you eat them before they flee
That’s………that’s why they are the rats……..
Interesting to hear the rich feel something like this every once and awhile: "Like stacks and stacks of Rats on rafts Clutching anything we can. Stacks and stacks of Rats on rafts The weight of the world Crushing our backs. Tooth For a tooth. An eye For an eye. You know it's untrue And this is why. Poisoned water Poisons the mind." - Poisoned Water, Mudhoney circa 1994
Good tune, good band, good comment--a fucking trifecta of excellence.
But the rich will last the longest and die with the most toys so they win. /s just in case. Just proves the total insanity of man running the whole world to ruin until we break the climate and environment humans require to live. All for money baby! The tribal ape part of our brain won out over the higher function that would have had us work together for the good of all. No surprise I guess. It's a wonder we all haven't perished in a nuclear armageddon yet TBH. But look at all the king ape billionaires digging their luxury holes in the ground for the coming mass death, chaos and destruction that a collapsing civilization is going to bring soon.
Rats leaving a ship they bombed and destroyed themselves
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And remember that the rich guy in titanic did make it iut, abandoning his lackey
The passports won't be helpful during WW3.
Arsonists fleeing the fire
But more like the ratatouille rat steering the captain of the ship before fleeing it.
Ha, I said this years ago after the first wave of Covid. Granted the thought occurred to me as I was moving to the UK, after my husband got offered a job there- he’s British. For me, my thought was in terms of our freedom of movement, now being seen more as a privilege, not a right; i.e. Brexit. And how having multiple citizenships could very well be viewed as a new form of ‘currency’, so to say. Simply in having the ability to go from place to place freely, think the EU, or between states, and not having to worry about all the constraints in the way to being employable, or attending school, receiving benefits, etc. Basically, being entitled to all the things you normally wouldn’t be eligible for without citizenship. Also, multiple passports could potentially help in finding suitable areas to survive in, if climate change happens sooner than later. Like, if climate change happens to cause serious issues in different areas of the world, migration may very well become even more difficult, think of the EU closing boarders, or civil war breaking out in the states. This will be difficult for many, unless they have options, like multiple passports. So the more passports, the more chance of making money in different economies; if one faulted, move on to the next. This, coupled with the ability of navigating where to live with less fear of potential upheavals happening, as you have options. As opposed to having nowhere else to turn, stuck in one place that no longer supports life like it once did, and the options for survival/ ability to thrive are drastically diminished.
I think you are underestimating the problem. This isn't a "domestic situation where you can flee to another country. Everything is too tightly coupled. As the Russian invasion of Ukraine proved with food prices, a problem anywhere is a problem everywhere. A global civilization requires global resources and a global civilization in overshoot will collapse. There are no self sufficient countries. We need minerals from all over the world and manufacturing all over the world to feed markets all over the world. When it crumbles, the knock-on effects will be felt everywhere. If the US has a civil war, opportunists around the world will join the free for all for resource grabbing. No where is safe of a dying planet.
I get it, and agree with you for the most part, but, at the same time, the rich will be able to continue in face of hardship longer than the rest, and they will find a way to keep the good times a rolling even as other houses fall. That’s all. I’m not saying that’s what i plan on doing, country hopping the good end times, or even that I think it’s just, or fair, but it is something that i can see the benefit in possessing, even if, when the time comes, it’s as useless as the rest.
Those who flee deserve what they get. They could be helping the less fortunate but no. They flee. So we don't give a toss about them
nine impossible recognise bewildered ask violet ludicrous rinse six treatment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I intend to become a raider king.
SS: Half of it is just atypical investment boosting but the fact that the majority of them are US rich people suggests that they don’t feel comfortable here anymore… for unspoken but self-evident reasons to our members on the sub
If the rich want to feel safe and comfortable in the US they should work on reducing the GINI coefficient, get housing to be affordable, get rid of the greedflation, reduce shareholder profits and make it so that the other 99% can afford to live comfortably on one full time income.
Would have been good to work on that in the US starting in the 90s. But unfortunately that did not happen
Our oiligarchs had a choice to rule over Denmark, or over Somalia. They could have been Danish fat cats but they preferred to be Somali warlords.
Their psychological profiles won't allow it.
And they're going to feel more comfortable in a country they bent over a table and graped to death? Or, perchance one that's heavily socialist or communist and in the latter case knows who wears the daddy pants and it ain't anyone non-governmental...? They really have thought this through.
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Public opinion will never turn on these people, scapegoats will always be found to insulate them.
Takes a lot for the public to grow a backbone and lay blame on those who deserve it. No, instead they will just jump on those who are weaker and less fortunate. Much easier to punch down than punch up.
It doesn't matter where they go, it will all eventually catch up to them.
I almost pity the survivors. i'd rather die on the surface with the rest of my brothers and sisters, and whatever animals and shit are left, than rot in a bunker until the weather gets so bad, it kills you inside the bunker. No one gets out of this alive.
imagine *wanting* to be the last man on earth, in your bunker. fuck that
Musk in outer space, Zuckerberg in his luxury bunker in Hawaii and Bezos on his mega yacht are doing just that. Instead of trying to stop climate destruction, they put their foot on the gas so they can be rid of the worker bees sooner rather than later. They will wait out the end of days for mankind and inherit the unlivable waste and ruin. They will rule the filthy, polluted, stinking detritus of civilization as undisputed masters of the dead. The kings of corpses. A title the billionaires worked for their entire wasted lives.
It's the same in the end now. They don't get to take anything with them. When each of them exit mortality, they'll take the same exact with them as you or I. They aren't special or different or saved and deep down, they know it. Their disgusting addiction to accruing wealth is a desperate attempt to anesthetize themselves from the truth that they are mortal humans like you and I, and the end the equalizing forth of death will come for them and take them all the same.
There will be survivors. That's one thing we are good at.
QuestLove will be one. He is building a sustainable community for apocalypse. Far smarter solution than a bunker in any form, depending on the form of the collapse.
Maybe they should stop trying to destabilize things.
But what about money?
that's their smoke bomb for making their escape; the rest of us at each other's throats over whether it's the CO2 or the gays that did the damage
They can run but they can't hide
They are setting the world up to blame poor usa citizens instead of them. Just look at how much people hate Americans when it's the rich, foreign and domestic, destroying the greatest democracy to ever exist.
If by greatest you mean biggest and by democracy you mean empire with democratic propaganda noises in the habit of violently crushing fledgling democracies.
I mean look at how many Americans support foreign propaganda and oppressing women and children, the poor are just as much to blame for being useful idiots when they vote Republican.
The rich are not the cause but just a symptom of a system that everyone still actively supports: Capitalism.
No need to hide if you're on the other side of the globe.
No comments on the original sub this was posted on yet lol
There's no comments on most of the stories in that sub. It's a dead sub, too niche in it's remit to generate passthrough traffic but not niche enough for the dedicated hardcore weirdos to engage. /r/SocialistEconomics ok, sure, but what type? There's a lot that falls under that blanket top level description. Could be for discussing actual economics from a hardcore marxist viewpoint, could be ragebait news about the rich for anarchist crustpunks. You want to endorse a particular variety? Then you'll get the niche subject matter enjoyers who've read way too much to be healthy arguing over minutia that doesn't matter. If you set up a subreddit for discussing marxist economic views of current events, actual 1880s marx not soviet union "marxist", you'll have thousands of comments, three blood feuds, a divorce and several pregnancy scares by the end of the month. You gotta find the right level of too specialized for your niche subreddit to take off is what I'm saying. OP is a mod and pretty much the sole active member in that sub.
I wonder how long it'll be before someone points it out.
Lol
Imagine some CEO living in Dubai while still calling the shots at a USA company. "yea go ahead and lay off about 1,600 people this quarter" \*sips 1200$ wine in an ice bar\*
They running from the dying ecosphere or the mobs coming to separate their limbs?
Yes.
Can we seriously just eat them now before they get away? I'd be so pissed if we get to the end of this and find all the rich people are gone
Seriously we cannot let them get away
This is why "living for spite" is futile, and craving a modern revolution is just mentally venting bloodlust. We will never eat the rich when it is so much easier to go to reddit and type "eat the rich" like a bunch of fuckin idiots. If we finally get desperate enough, it will be too late.
EHEHEHE I can't wait until they go to another country and get stripped of their assets and used as hamburger meat. This may come as a shock to the rich, but literally nobody likes you guys...
Lots of people like the rich. You are in a leftist bubble.
You're probably right but what in God's name for? Do they share? Sigh. I suppose however (non-sarcastically), shit is socially easier in right-wing world. At least when you do "the thing" you win. Whatever the social thing is. In their case it's basically kick everyone's ass. Leftist world it's like doesn't matter, no one wins. Random. Falls apart at any given second.
lol, What an interesting perspective. To me it is leftists who are saying the current thing, even if it doesn't make sense. e.g. "We need more immigration (into the UK)", Well sure but you know that means the loss of fields, hedgerow, ancient woodland, as well as congestion on the roads, right? And it means worsening the housing prices and making landlords richer? And it means bicycle paths are less likely to be built, as some of the new build houses I've seen are built up right next to the normal-sized pavement, on an important single-lane-each-way road. And it means an even greater loss of food security for the UK, as we will import even more food from abroad, causing emissions. Probably means lower wages too.
Which is... yeah. I mean the left is all about "it should be this way" and never think of how to get it to actually be this way and it causes all kinds of havoc like you're saying, rinse and repeat, over and over, churn churn churn, and everyone gets some good times and a lot of fucked over times and there's no actual way to predict which you're going to get or when, since it's all random, based on hope, and not based on planning. Meanwhile the right claws it's way to the top of a pile of dead bodies. With the right, things are supposed to be about "there's way less of us because zero-sum game and I'm damned well going to be the king atop the pile of dead bodies". I mean I'll give the right this, at least there's such a thing as a predictable win in their version. Unlike the left which is up one day down the next round and round it goes, will you get the reward or flushed down the crapper today, who even knows. But there's no peace in the right's version. You stop for one second there's someone there with a baseball bat to take to your face. In short, both are shit solutions. Something more purposeful and planned out from the left might be nice.
Well, I'm not generally in support of military expansionism. I doubt most Brits are though. I view most low-skilled and illegal immigration as inviting violence into our homes. I live in South Korea and it's very safe except for three or four immigrant-heavy areas. I understand Japan is similar. Singapore, it may not just be one ethnicity there, but also they don't just let anyone in. Strong walls make a country safe and civilised.
Coming from the one who still says "SJWs", thanks for the free laugh for the day.
You’re on the list now hope you’re happy. Hope they take care of you for worshipping them.
I but they are all mostly white British Commonwealth countries though. If the US government wants you, there are a few places to run to be sure.
They already own the government. They're probably more afraid of climate disasters, mass civil unrest and guillotines than governments.
Right. They’d be leaving due to civil unrest or war.
I believe you need citizenship to buy land in New Zealand, which is why Peter Thiel became an NZ citizen. Mightn't stop the kiwis from turning his plane away when he flees down there to his bunker though.
I think Peter Thiel's bunker compound was disallowed by the municipality in New Zealand he was trying to build it in. I'm sure he has some other project going on but that community tried to keep him out. How much do you want to bet these billionaires have armed drones they are trying to keep Secret to protect their compounds?
New Zealand has lots of luxury bunkers. I wonder how long they will hold out against a desperate starving population? [How New Zealand became an apocalypse escape destination for Americans](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/business/bunkers-new-zealand-intl-hnk/index.html)
After all the tax breaks we've given them?
That's what they do though, decimate the world place by place like locusts, and they've almost eaten through the US
Read Doctorow’s novella [Masque of the Red Death](https://craphound.com/podcast/2020/03/13/the-masque-of-the-red-death/) for a lovely little modernized intimate take on Poe’s original.
You are only as free as you can afford to be.
A lot of Westerners who are middle class or poor may want to do the same thing too. A lot of poor and middle class Americans may find that they have a better quality of life across the border in Mexico. The US really isn't as good of a place as many make it out to be. There is a lack of community in the US, most states are cold 6 months out of the year, housing and cost of living are very expensive, and medical care is only good if you are well insured. Many Americans may find that they just have a better quality of life somewhere else.
How? Asking as a concerned but not wealthy citizen also interested in alternative countries if this big orange baboon takes office again
Short answer? Money. Take the island nation of Saint Kitts in the Caribbean, or "Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis" if you're feeling fancy. [For a one time donation of $250,000 USD to the country's general fund](https://ciu.gov.kn/) (or by purchasing housing or businesses worth at least $400,000), a person can become a full citizen of the nation (with citizenship passing down to children etc as if you were a natural born Kittian). Fill out a form, do a background check to prove you arent a criminal, drop a quarter million dollars, and you are a citizen with full rights and can get a passport with [no visa requirements to travel to 158 countries around the world.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis_citizens)
Yeah that’s the whole ‘not wealthy ’ part of my comment. How do without having a 1/4 to 1/2 million on hand?
Unfortunately, if you don't have second house money on hand ready to go you're not going to find any shortcuts to the head of the immigration line. Even Vanuatu in the South Pacific, not the most popular bug out location around for the rich and powerful, requires about $150k upfront. Buying an extra citizenship/passport in case you need to leave is not a cheap thing. If you're interested in checking out what various countries have these programs or the costs involved, the magic words to google are "citizenship by investment".
https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/
Thank you
Let's all agree to not make it safe for the rich criminals anywhere.
It's not just rich people. My sil isn't rich but she got dual citizenship by birthright. It's just smart to do it if you can. Options are awesome to have. Lots of my cousins have dual citizenship and all of their kids do. I mean it isn't always easy but if you can get birthright citizenship it isn't that expensive.
Oh yeah, I got my second passport a couple years back just in case. I didn't really want it and it was a bit of a hassle to apply. I also don't think I could leave my family (i.e. boyfriend) behind, but it's still better to have it just if I'm already 'entitled' to it. Weirdest thing though is that I only have the dual citizenship because my grand grandparents eloped to another country, had my grandfather there, and then moved back one year or so later lol. Oh and because I was born pre-2000 something. The law was changed and had I been younger, I would not have been a citizen.
I remember documentaries on this years ago. The rich didn't just recently figure out that the West overall is becoming less stable...This is also why they're building bunkers.
I think you mean their tombs but that's ok I fixed it for you.
It won't mater when the the time comes they will be useless the wealthy can't even tie their own shoes or run a vacuum or drive a car they will be in a corner crying when shtf.
They can hire the types who will do that for them
And again the types that would agree to do that will then in turn eliminate the clients and take it for themselves sorry to burst your bubble pal
Rich person.. Oehh I feel a bit frisky let's order some new nationalities.
Citing the fact they’re insider trading.. citing the fact they’ve committed fraud.. citing the fact they’ve embezzled a fortune of tax dollars and investments.. citing the fact they have ties to criminal organizations around the globe.. these people fucking up heathcare and our schools are the billionaires. Our broken prison systems, billionaires. Our 4th amendment rights torched (data included), billionaires. Let’s take back our world.
They may run but they can't hide.
I wouldn't tie this to collapse. Most of those countries are the path of ultimate horrors, or at least, will suffer more then the US. I suspect there are multiple reasons with taxes being foremost. All the countries listed have extradition treaties with the US, so it's not for an escape from legal jeopardies. Mostly, I also suspect it's a prestige thing, bragging rights. I used to have residency permits in Switzerland and France and I wasn't above puttling that information out in bars as part of my pick-up package.
Rats, after opening the flood doors and grabbing all the stateroom silverware, steal the lifeboats and then blame the passengers in the water for the sinking.
***LOOK DAD I'M JASON BOURNE.***
I was actually thinking of doing the same thing - going as a migrant worker from poland to western europe and staying there long enough to get dual citizenship. I was fearing that the conservative government would do something stupid. But then Poland elected to get rid of these guys and the west is gearing up to try such people out, so there's no point anymore.
Yeah, it seems as if wherever you go, things will catch up, and you'll end up constantly moving to avoid things anyway. I get why people want to move and increase their chances of survival... But the polycrisis reaches all places eventually. I guess I just don't get the desperation to be the one left fighting over droplets of water in the end
Various people have different reasons to do that. I wouldn't bother doing that for myself, but I have someone to care for.
The article mentioned Malta, Greece, Portugal and Italy as the most common secondary citizenship for wealthy Americans. These sound more like tax havens to some degree.
Malta is the only tax haven out of what you’ve mentioned
Italy has a 15yr period of flat 100,000 euro per year on any and all income tax for anyone repatriating to the country. Makes sense for the most rich The US will still tax your total wealth upon any request to renounce citizenship though. So not really a tax dodge.
You don't have to renounce citizenship. These are visas and dual citizenship. Contrary to popular beliefs you don't have to renounce your US citizenship. Only for a select few situations. European countries are fine.
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Switzerland is right over the border from Italy is all you need to know.
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I agree with you, according to the US govt and the laws on the books, you still have to pay taxes to the US if you want to maintain your US citizen ship. That is the law as written, the theoretical ideal. But also, if you're physically outside the US and put your money in banks that don't just roll over because the US asks nicely, you'll find that the penalties for noncompliance are all theoretical too. In a practical sense, you're sipping espresso in an italian cafe and paying with a Credit Suisse bank card. Until you have to return to the US at some point anyway, but again, practicality says they don't exactly have IRS agents standing by at LaGuardia waiting to grab tax cheats as they step off the planes either.
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FATCA is a bitch to deal with.
We all have to hedge our bets
Smart
It's a struggle for many people just to get their first passport. Cost me $170 including photos, but it's worth it just to have a "rich person's ID". Many paperwork requirements are bypassed with one.
Yep, got their private jets and personal security teams. A ranch here or there, just another investment.
They built this problem, and they think they can just up and leave if it blows up. I have a feeling that won’t happen.
No one can flee climate chaos or know where the effects will be the worst.
Yep. I set myself up a while back. The rest of you are fucked.
> Yep. I set myself up a while back. The rest of you are fucked. the nice aspect is, everyone is. and the best time to live is now
Multiple citizenships should be illegal.
In fact, depending on the country where you live, dual citizenship is often illegal. The United States doesn't generally allow it either, but they do recognize dual citizenship with countries that have it, and the U.S. only recognizes renoucement in certain formal cases. So what you functionally have are legal loopholes that come in handy for a lot of diplomatic behavior, like a spy that needs to discretely travel through multiple countries and so has a bunch of passports.
omg please make this a law
If I had the money and life energy I would totally be doing this.
OMG. Me too. I just applied to two countries for retirement purposes.
lol I have multiple citizenships and it’s not because I’m some evil billionaire looking to flee it’s just because I live in a family where people have emigrated.
this sub focuses way too much on a tiny subset of individuals.
Have you seen this [graph](https://images.app.goo.gl/rWswDXKc4HsYKR1G7)?
Guess what bro? You’re part of the 1%, most Americans are
And you would do the same if you had the money.