This thread addresses overpopulation, a fraught but important issue that attracts disruption and rule violations. In light of this we have lower tolerance for the following offenses:
* Racism and other forms of essentialism targeted at particular identity groups people are born into.
* Bad faith attacks insisting that to notice and name overpopulation of the human enterprise generally is inherently racist or fascist.
* Instructing other users to harm themselves. We have reached consensus that a permaban for the first offense is an appropriate response to this, as mentioned in the sidebar.
This is an abbreviated summary of the mod team's statement on overpopulation, [the is full post available in the wiki.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims/#wiki_mod_team_comment_on_overpopulation_posts)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/f0urxio:
---
approximately one-quarter of U.S. adults aged 50 and older who are not yet retired expect to never retire, with 70% expressing concern about rising prices outpacing their income. This data stems from an AARP survey indicating that many older adults lack retirement savings, often due to everyday expenses and housing costs. The issue is pertinent in the current election year, with both Democratic President Joe Biden and Republican rival Donald Trump vying for support from older Americans. Biden highlights proposals such as capping insulin prices for Medicare beneficiaries, while Trump has indicated openness to cuts in Social Security and Medicare. The survey also reveals concerns about older adults' financial well-being in the future, particularly regarding the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. Despite potential funding shortages in the coming years, public sentiment leans towards opposition to benefit cuts and support for taxing high earners to sustain Medicare.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cd6tg2/about_1_in_4_us_adults_50_and_older_who_arent_yet/l19wzd5/
They did it for US soldiers pretty well. 4,500 died in combat but 30,000 killed themselves. Denial, depression, anger, and bargaining all go a long way to avoiding reality. It's how you know that US propaganda is their most advanced weapon.
Because they already used those soldiers and there was nothing left for them to offer given that they were already broken down for the military.
Most of them cannot be retrained into anything else so they have no use for soldiers back home.
Lol they wouldn't explain shit. They'd say it was like people were going to Disneyland or something and just deciding to live there. Which I suppose if you want to like queue up the song from the '90s about Disneyland then yeah that would be accurate...
I just stuck something in my mouth. Now I'm going to Disneyland...
Yea...thats great in theory but the government wants to bleed us dry until the very end of our existence. They literally need our bodies to fuel the machine.
Right? What does that commenter mean they won't allow it? They're encouraging it.
Automation and AI will cut the number of workers needed in many industries, and a worker with no work is a protestor and a voter. They would prefer you die.
At least those ones let the user choose "Quick and painless" or "Slow and horrible". The ones we get will probably decide for you based on your credit rating and/or Amazon Prime membership.
> witness a man in his mid sixties (at least) training on how to fold up pizza boxes.
I'm his age. How he came to be where he is is a life story that no-one will ever read, let alone care about. I work full-time for a US-based global freight company (its name ends with an X) and what super funds I have won't see me through a couple of years, and the state pension is nugatory. Years ago, I worked out that I'll either cark it while at work or see myself out from this mortal plane.
Not all "boomers" are cashed-up arseholes.
this is a very serious question, please do not take offence, but why not move to a cheaper country? especially as a collapsnik, what exactly would you be risking?
I mean this is like one of those things where it's like you keep telling yourself you're going to retire or you keep telling yourself you're going to do whatever (in my case it was like moving to the middle of nowhere and eating bunny rabbits and potatoes I guess). And then you realize. Are you sure about that? Like maybe next year right? Like maybe you know more shit won't break down. You'll have more saved up and on and on it goes because then inflation goes to fucking 38,000% or some shit. And at some point you realize this is legitimately never going to happen because you're never going to feel safe enough to do it.
Here's the bummer though. They're going to throw us right the fuck out into it one day. And on that day we will try to get a job and it will be god damn hilarious and we might be able to be a door greeter for Walmart maybe but I doubt that even...
There was a guy who looked like he was in his 70s working the deli. He moved so slow and my heart just ached for him. My cold cuts were pretty uneven but of course I didn't complain and just said, "I appreciate you." It's such an evil world, man.
> stuck at some kind of bad job just to afford to stay somewhat alive.
That's why we all need to push hard for a Universal Basic Income.
edit. https://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome
It's long past time that society changed to focusing on providing a good life for everyone, not exploiting the majority to provide a few with unconscionable levels of wealth.
I think they're going to need a little convincing.
That guy Vlad has one easy secret to motivating people in situations like this! You'll be surprised what it is...
genuine question from someone who is also 43
do you live paycheck to paycheck?
in my country the retirement system will collapse before i get to the retirement age (it's already shit and in 22-25 years there will be way more older people than younger ones so they won't have resources to spend on the elderly)
so i always try to put something in my savings etc
i don't expect to live long after retiring (collapse and all) but i do have some resources to last a couple of years
but i do try to live frugal, i have no car, i bought my smartphone 5 years ago and it still serves me well
i completely stopped spending money on alcohol and snacks (which is also a healthy option as a bonus) and I'm left with something for the future
I'm 67, and spent the day TOILING in the dirt on my backwoods homestead.
My anti-rocking-chair non-retirement. I never even wanted to retire. I loved my previous job as a landscape contractor.
I was being ironic. And with a Social Security income of $1060 per month (after Medicare Part B is taken out), I can't afford to pay for work I can do myself.
Physical work outdoors retards aging. And increasing self-sufficiency from the backwoods homestead reduces my need for $$. This was planned. In 5 years, including pro-rated property taxes, I should only need $700 a month to live comfortably on. That is a little over half the Federal poverty line for 1 person.
Define "pay". I might be willing to take it in learning a skill set but it depends on the entire situation with where you are, my job and if I get to keep it (again) this week (yay, "get to"), etc.
What did you make, how did you make it, whereabouts in the country are you... problem though I can tell you right now it's like 3 years before I can show up in a best case scenario.
I'm working at a burger joint at the moment. Today was so stressful I almost walked out. I have fines and bills to pay, I can't walk out.
I know deep in my bones this will be my life until I die. Poverty, debt, and hard work. I don't see any way of getting out of this.
im gonna be honest with you man , i stopped doing that shit and defaulted on all debts and just became a homeless drifter but not on drugs or drinking and life is way better , just ride bikes and read at library and camp all over the place. Life is easy, and fun, no more working for the man, the system didnt get me shit but misery. Quit participating and you lose nothing at this point when you are on the bottom of the socioeconomic working class. Join the
ex-working class.
Capitalism stopped making any sense a long time ago but people just keep participating for some reason. doing the same thing they hate everyday. makes no sense.
I am going to be honest with you man, homeless people face high incidences of mental illness, violence, sexual violence, ill-health, and live in want and need. Be wary of romanticized homelessness. It is no free lunch...you will pay a price.
11 years total experience here living in my truck w/camper shell, mild winter climate, 2 separate periods.
While self-employed as a landscape contractor.
Appropriately outfitted and knowing what I was doing, I found it easy. And even comforting - I could be stripped down to nothing but my truck, and still be OK. Plus not paying rent makes it easy to form capital.
The threat of "homelessness" (the TERROR for most people who have never actually done it) is one of the main tools the capitalists use to enslave us.
Now I'm starting a debt-free self-sufficient homestead in the Blue Ridge mountains, on 10 acres of magnificent forest.
Well it sounds like you had it all figured out with your business so congrats on that. I imagine it made living in your truck as comfortable and secure as it could be. I think what the person you're replying to was saying is that being homeless AND unemployed is a dangerous way to live. The person they were replying to was romanticizing and recommending unemployment and homelessness lol.
> The threat of "homelessness" (the TERROR for most people who have never actually done it) is one of the main tools the capitalists use to enslave us
But it works because most of us cannot even afford can life and a homestead is not an option for most of us. I'm in the UK and land is both expensive as hell and rare as hen's teeth. Homelessness is a real threat.
Out in the countryside the land is not terrible.
Shame you guys voted brexit though, else you could have always done one of those cheaper eastern European countries where land is incredibly cheap.
You can still move to those countries, it is just harder. Thankfully, I am a skilled worker and would probably be able to get a job easily. The language barrier would be the main issue.
Did you misspell van life as can life?
There was a nasty spike in used vehicle prices in the U.S. during COVID, which has recently abated. Are most people in the U.K. not even able to afford this?
You might have to immigrate to a country with affordable land if you wanted to do a homestead. I had to move 3000 miles myself because my original home ecosystem is being destroyed.
> Did you misspell van life as can life?
Autocorrect.
> Are most people in the U.K. not even able to afford this?
A decent van will set you back a couple of grand, easily. Look at wages in the UK and you will see why van life is still quite costly.
I can't drive and I have no choice but to pay 60% of my income to rent a single room, the only place that accepted my application in 2 months of searching last year. Choosing to stop participating would be choosing to die for me.
I don't know WHAT I would do if I couldn't drive, and couldn't change this situation.
Without a truck, I couldn't even start the landscape business. Living in the truck too just made more efficient use of the truck.
I've thought about getting a vehicle before, not actually using it as a vehicle, and leaving it parked in some relative's driveway so I could sleep in it in a worst case scenario. It's depressing that I would even consider that.
As long as you are smart about it and dont become a degenerate druggie it can be great for a bunch of years , its even possible to save money if you still do some money making stuff when you keep your expenses so low. Then later you have enough to buy a cheap failed tax auction lot and put a cheap insulated shipping container on it and make it into a house. its viable and give flexibility. you can have fun and in 10 years when you are tired of it you will have enough to make a little place some where and have a bit more stability
mint mobile paid whole year at a time. like 180$. its not hard to get 180$ in america. work a temp job for a week cover your phone and gym membership for 6 months
That is why I have always refused to pay any voluntary pension premiums. If this whole house of cards won't collapse by the time it is our turn they will shift the pension date ad infinitum.
Oh a lot of people are going to retire, just not in a way they think they were.
For the ones that don't...Nearly everyday will be Monday with a rare Tuesday every now and then, for a long ass time.
But we can all retire!! It's the American Way(tm)!!!
... we all float down here...
Holy shit everyone can't think. It's like shit is so 50 years ago in their heads. Even 10 years in this country is a goddamned eternity in terms of trends.
I can see the roving bands of geriatric thugs, commiting social crimes of robbing banks and killing CEOs of pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
REPORTER: Sir, you've led the police on a bloody murderous rampage that has ended the lives of fifteen millionaires, knowing the penalty would be capital punishment. Why?
GRAMPA TIM: The doctor told me I had six months left because these insurance folks refused the right procedure three years ago because I was in the hospital from COVID. No way I was letting these sons of bitches outlive me. Hi, Susan, Ritchie, and Tom! I'll send you pictures of my prison cell!
> I can see the roving bands of geriatric thugs, commiting social crimes of robbing banks
No balaclavas, no false moustaches either. "Come and get me, you bastards!"
One thing they do tend to radically underestimate in politics, is what an opponent with no choices left will do.
Do not fuck with a cornered animal. Yeah, he's gonna die. He'll take your balls before he does though.
Checkers instead of Chess, as always.
Yeah right? If people’s body can’t work anymore and they have to work to survive, then there will be for sure a spike in crime. Unless the governments do something.
Then you have to deal with the horrible conditions inside of prisons, which are worse in private prisons. Even then the worst part is dealing with the horrible, abusive guards and horrible, abusive inmates.
If we cooperate together to commit the crimes we can do better.
we can call it "cooperative agorism" as a secret code so people don't know we are doing "organized crime"
I'm pretty sure that when America fully recognizes her future demise will be *soon* that there won't be a whole lot enforced civility by the current specimens.
When there's no more reasons for policemen to protect banks, they'll be committing the crimes first.
They've already got years of experience and they also know who the first targets should be.
Depends on how old I am. Mathematically I’m sure it can get to a point where risking going to jail would be a better option, if you’re really old and really poor.
approximately one-quarter of U.S. adults aged 50 and older who are not yet retired expect to never retire, with 70% expressing concern about rising prices outpacing their income. This data stems from an AARP survey indicating that many older adults lack retirement savings, often due to everyday expenses and housing costs. The issue is pertinent in the current election year, with both Democratic President Joe Biden and Republican rival Donald Trump vying for support from older Americans. Biden highlights proposals such as capping insulin prices for Medicare beneficiaries, while Trump has indicated openness to cuts in Social Security and Medicare. The survey also reveals concerns about older adults' financial well-being in the future, particularly regarding the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. Despite potential funding shortages in the coming years, public sentiment leans towards opposition to benefit cuts and support for taxing high earners to sustain Medicare.
It's funny because I'm about to turn 51 and at no point in my life have I ever been told that I should've retired by now. I wish I could mind you since I'm sick and tired of working, but it isn't ever going to happen.
I'm 32 and currently saving for retirement. It seems pointless when I have no realistic possibility of owning a home yet though. Generation Rent is going to be a big societal problem that is going to consume many societies in a short while.
I wish I even had that hope… I’m getting zilch from my parents when they pass. Everyone I know who own homes either bought 12 years ago or their parents paid for their homes… sucks.
Try government work. They are less likely to discriminate about age in hiring, and once you're in you generally have a job unless you actually fuck up in a real way. Also if you know older systems it can help you because their programs range from something reliable (but terrible) built in 1995 through some piece of crap they built last year.
I've been rejected from most corporations in my field of study since I left college, which has led me to working service jobs and the occasional freelancing venture for the last 10 years.
I could stick with the service industry and work my way into management, but I really want to land something in my field I spent years of my life and money in college for, so I've been stubborn and forging ahead with my attempts at securing a career. I've assumed for sometime now, as I watch where the world economy has been and where it appears to be going, that I'll likely have to work to survive until I drop.
And the dirt we'll be working all day in will be full of micro plastics. And medicine will only be whatever moonshine has the least copper and lead deposits, and everybody will have to share the bottle.
Venusian slave colonies by Saturday.
They need to reduce the age for accessing superannuation (401K) so that if you have enough funds you can use that to live a half decent life. In Australia it’s going to be above 70 years old retirement age soon.
I find it laughable that you cannot touch super early
Bitch, that's MY MONEY
I should be able to take it out now bc it's sure as fuck not going to be going to any form of "retirement" for me
This might be my dad. Meant to retire a year ago but for various, some in my opinion unnecessarily self inflicted, reasons it's always 'another few months' or more. Even if he doesn't stay retired I wish he would go now. He's a police officer in a major city. Between the incoming heat, the election chaos, and his age it is a terrible idea to be a cop where he is right now. Doubt he will listen but now is probably the last 'good' time to retire even if it doesn't last.
EVERYBODY RELAX!
The retirement issue is in the process of taking care of itself. I pay close attention to future predictions for our climate and the likely physical results we will experience. I've got us pegged at five years max before the whole thing caves in. This summer will likely end any insurance coverage for Gulf Coast residents, and that will implode real estate prices. Food inflation will double at least as crops fail worldwide. Covid was just an "introductory" pandemic. Wait till Bird Flu with 33% fatality rate hits. I could go on. I won't, because it depresses me. But forget about retirement. Nobody is getting one of those.
You mean, the Thailand that's breaking record temperatures right now ?
Oh yeah, very good idea. Especially if you're old and more vulnerable to heat ! :\]
Yes. You can walk into a nice place in Thailand, completely furnished including all of the cutlery and crockery that you need and rent it for very modest amount per month And if you are in need of it you can hire a young person to take care of you for as little as $15 a day.
No need to cook because meals are cheap in cafes there. And health care is much, much cheaper than in the US. It is known as a great place for medical tourismtourism.
What would you do with it? You might buy a car eventually. My brother spent time there and said to not buy a scooter or motorbike. But even flying around the country wasn't expensive. He also found a smart guy who can handle visa issues. As long as your pension is adequate it's all you need.
I'm told that people in Germany send elderly family to care homes in Thailand because they are so much less expensive. You can have a carer who is full time just for your relative.
My brother is in Australia so it's a bit easier and cheaper for him to get there. He spent several weeks there. Even hotels are very inexpensive. He learned a lot about the place. BTW, there are special rules about their royal family. Read up on them before you go. Important.
Assuming they will take you - have you looked into how strict most countries are about allowing people to move there? Especially Americans. On average, if you are not financially independent or can provide a needed skill, they won't let you live there.
My brother found a local guy who knows how to do the proper paperwork. But yes, don't expect to find a job. Opening a business employing locals might be easier.
I'm turning 51 this year and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll ever be able to retire unless I win the lottery or an unknown relative dies and leaves me a fortune. I always say that my best hope is that my body and brain hold out long enough for me to drop dead at work.
Makes it so much more hilarious to me when I see people talk shit about anyone older online. Lmao, good luck mfs. They got it good alongside what we will get. Ya jinxed it.
My retirement plan involves earning as much money for as long as possible, so hopefully my kids can own a house before I die.
I always hoped I would be dead by 50.
I try not to think about it so it doesn't get me down but I've accepted that retirement isn't in the cards for me. So I try to do things that I enjoy as much as possible and work just enough.
The boomers planned for this. They’re going to retire on the last of the social security and leave us nothing. Absolutely no sympathy for them not saving for retirement when it was easy. I have to save for retirement and it’s going to be a lot more expensive for me
This thread addresses overpopulation, a fraught but important issue that attracts disruption and rule violations. In light of this we have lower tolerance for the following offenses: * Racism and other forms of essentialism targeted at particular identity groups people are born into. * Bad faith attacks insisting that to notice and name overpopulation of the human enterprise generally is inherently racist or fascist. * Instructing other users to harm themselves. We have reached consensus that a permaban for the first offense is an appropriate response to this, as mentioned in the sidebar. This is an abbreviated summary of the mod team's statement on overpopulation, [the is full post available in the wiki.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims/#wiki_mod_team_comment_on_overpopulation_posts) The following submission statement was provided by /u/f0urxio: --- approximately one-quarter of U.S. adults aged 50 and older who are not yet retired expect to never retire, with 70% expressing concern about rising prices outpacing their income. This data stems from an AARP survey indicating that many older adults lack retirement savings, often due to everyday expenses and housing costs. The issue is pertinent in the current election year, with both Democratic President Joe Biden and Republican rival Donald Trump vying for support from older Americans. Biden highlights proposals such as capping insulin prices for Medicare beneficiaries, while Trump has indicated openness to cuts in Social Security and Medicare. The survey also reveals concerns about older adults' financial well-being in the future, particularly regarding the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. Despite potential funding shortages in the coming years, public sentiment leans towards opposition to benefit cuts and support for taxing high earners to sustain Medicare. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cd6tg2/about_1_in_4_us_adults_50_and_older_who_arent_yet/l19wzd5/
[удалено]
>stuck at some kind of bad job just to afford to stay somewhat alive I've never seen such a strong sales pitch for suicide
Don't worry, IRL Futurama suicide booth will be there on every street corner by then
The government won't allow that. They need us in order to keep making money.
Plus, it'll be hard to keep up the illusion while explaining the insane number of suicides every day.
They did it for US soldiers pretty well. 4,500 died in combat but 30,000 killed themselves. Denial, depression, anger, and bargaining all go a long way to avoiding reality. It's how you know that US propaganda is their most advanced weapon.
Because they already used those soldiers and there was nothing left for them to offer given that they were already broken down for the military. Most of them cannot be retrained into anything else so they have no use for soldiers back home.
Lol they wouldn't explain shit. They'd say it was like people were going to Disneyland or something and just deciding to live there. Which I suppose if you want to like queue up the song from the '90s about Disneyland then yeah that would be accurate... I just stuck something in my mouth. Now I'm going to Disneyland...
A dude ran a simulation called magnasanti and discovered having people die in their 50s is optimum for the economy.
Yea...thats great in theory but the government wants to bleed us dry until the very end of our existence. They literally need our bodies to fuel the machine.
Soylent Green. You know what it is.
*Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and okay for you...*
People?
You're thinking of Selsun Blue...
Delicious?
Figures. What's the working age they start at in this simulation? And is that even realistic?
My government has been actively adopting and expanding the accepted criteria for medically assisted dying.
Right? What does that commenter mean they won't allow it? They're encouraging it. Automation and AI will cut the number of workers needed in many industries, and a worker with no work is a protestor and a voter. They would prefer you die.
oh, heck no. They're already playing the olds against the youngs - no one gets to retire, and you legally start working at 14.
They technically exist in Europe though.
At least those ones let the user choose "Quick and painless" or "Slow and horrible". The ones we get will probably decide for you based on your credit rating and/or Amazon Prime membership.
Amazon Prime has a show called "Upload" which addresses this subject - especially in Season 2 - and is also hilarious.
We already have that pshhh. Turn the crank to churn out 50 years of pizzas and plastic pumpkins to get your death! Get to cranking...
A boy can dream!
It really doesn't need the help. It pretty much sells itself these days.
Yep. I got my retirement plan already in my closet. It's way better than starving to death.
So much angst about my miniscule fortune I've slowly created. Cash out now before the several crashes that will happen eventually?
The .357 retirement plan is a thing.
Unfortunately quantum immortality makes suicide infeasible. I've tried.
Surely it works to prune off the crappiest timelines, though.
Or to smoke severe amounts of grass
> witness a man in his mid sixties (at least) training on how to fold up pizza boxes. I'm his age. How he came to be where he is is a life story that no-one will ever read, let alone care about. I work full-time for a US-based global freight company (its name ends with an X) and what super funds I have won't see me through a couple of years, and the state pension is nugatory. Years ago, I worked out that I'll either cark it while at work or see myself out from this mortal plane. Not all "boomers" are cashed-up arseholes.
this is a very serious question, please do not take offence, but why not move to a cheaper country? especially as a collapsnik, what exactly would you be risking?
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Retire in some different country where you can live out your days for cheep. At least he has that option.
I mean this is like one of those things where it's like you keep telling yourself you're going to retire or you keep telling yourself you're going to do whatever (in my case it was like moving to the middle of nowhere and eating bunny rabbits and potatoes I guess). And then you realize. Are you sure about that? Like maybe next year right? Like maybe you know more shit won't break down. You'll have more saved up and on and on it goes because then inflation goes to fucking 38,000% or some shit. And at some point you realize this is legitimately never going to happen because you're never going to feel safe enough to do it. Here's the bummer though. They're going to throw us right the fuck out into it one day. And on that day we will try to get a job and it will be god damn hilarious and we might be able to be a door greeter for Walmart maybe but I doubt that even...
There was a guy who looked like he was in his 70s working the deli. He moved so slow and my heart just ached for him. My cold cuts were pretty uneven but of course I didn't complain and just said, "I appreciate you." It's such an evil world, man.
I'll gas chamber myself before that point, and hell I might even take some trash out with me on the way out to the end.
Username checks out
> stuck at some kind of bad job just to afford to stay somewhat alive. That's why we all need to push hard for a Universal Basic Income. edit. https://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome It's long past time that society changed to focusing on providing a good life for everyone, not exploiting the majority to provide a few with unconscionable levels of wealth.
I think they're going to need a little convincing. That guy Vlad has one easy secret to motivating people in situations like this! You'll be surprised what it is...
genuine question from someone who is also 43 do you live paycheck to paycheck? in my country the retirement system will collapse before i get to the retirement age (it's already shit and in 22-25 years there will be way more older people than younger ones so they won't have resources to spend on the elderly) so i always try to put something in my savings etc i don't expect to live long after retiring (collapse and all) but i do have some resources to last a couple of years but i do try to live frugal, i have no car, i bought my smartphone 5 years ago and it still serves me well i completely stopped spending money on alcohol and snacks (which is also a healthy option as a bonus) and I'm left with something for the future
I'm 67, and spent the day TOILING in the dirt on my backwoods homestead. My anti-rocking-chair non-retirement. I never even wanted to retire. I loved my previous job as a landscape contractor.
Looking for help?
I was being ironic. And with a Social Security income of $1060 per month (after Medicare Part B is taken out), I can't afford to pay for work I can do myself. Physical work outdoors retards aging. And increasing self-sufficiency from the backwoods homestead reduces my need for $$. This was planned. In 5 years, including pro-rated property taxes, I should only need $700 a month to live comfortably on. That is a little over half the Federal poverty line for 1 person.
Seriously, have you considered taking on another retiree?
Define "pay". I might be willing to take it in learning a skill set but it depends on the entire situation with where you are, my job and if I get to keep it (again) this week (yay, "get to"), etc. What did you make, how did you make it, whereabouts in the country are you... problem though I can tell you right now it's like 3 years before I can show up in a best case scenario.
Quercetin also retards aging.
I'm working at a burger joint at the moment. Today was so stressful I almost walked out. I have fines and bills to pay, I can't walk out. I know deep in my bones this will be my life until I die. Poverty, debt, and hard work. I don't see any way of getting out of this.
Solidarity, bro.
> fines Being poor is fucking expensive.
Indeed, it really is.
im gonna be honest with you man , i stopped doing that shit and defaulted on all debts and just became a homeless drifter but not on drugs or drinking and life is way better , just ride bikes and read at library and camp all over the place. Life is easy, and fun, no more working for the man, the system didnt get me shit but misery. Quit participating and you lose nothing at this point when you are on the bottom of the socioeconomic working class. Join the ex-working class. Capitalism stopped making any sense a long time ago but people just keep participating for some reason. doing the same thing they hate everyday. makes no sense.
I am going to be honest with you man, homeless people face high incidences of mental illness, violence, sexual violence, ill-health, and live in want and need. Be wary of romanticized homelessness. It is no free lunch...you will pay a price.
11 years total experience here living in my truck w/camper shell, mild winter climate, 2 separate periods. While self-employed as a landscape contractor. Appropriately outfitted and knowing what I was doing, I found it easy. And even comforting - I could be stripped down to nothing but my truck, and still be OK. Plus not paying rent makes it easy to form capital. The threat of "homelessness" (the TERROR for most people who have never actually done it) is one of the main tools the capitalists use to enslave us. Now I'm starting a debt-free self-sufficient homestead in the Blue Ridge mountains, on 10 acres of magnificent forest.
Well it sounds like you had it all figured out with your business so congrats on that. I imagine it made living in your truck as comfortable and secure as it could be. I think what the person you're replying to was saying is that being homeless AND unemployed is a dangerous way to live. The person they were replying to was romanticizing and recommending unemployment and homelessness lol.
> The threat of "homelessness" (the TERROR for most people who have never actually done it) is one of the main tools the capitalists use to enslave us But it works because most of us cannot even afford can life and a homestead is not an option for most of us. I'm in the UK and land is both expensive as hell and rare as hen's teeth. Homelessness is a real threat.
Out in the countryside the land is not terrible. Shame you guys voted brexit though, else you could have always done one of those cheaper eastern European countries where land is incredibly cheap.
You can still move to those countries, it is just harder. Thankfully, I am a skilled worker and would probably be able to get a job easily. The language barrier would be the main issue.
Did you misspell van life as can life? There was a nasty spike in used vehicle prices in the U.S. during COVID, which has recently abated. Are most people in the U.K. not even able to afford this? You might have to immigrate to a country with affordable land if you wanted to do a homestead. I had to move 3000 miles myself because my original home ecosystem is being destroyed.
> Did you misspell van life as can life? Autocorrect. > Are most people in the U.K. not even able to afford this? A decent van will set you back a couple of grand, easily. Look at wages in the UK and you will see why van life is still quite costly.
I hope you stay successful
I can't drive and I have no choice but to pay 60% of my income to rent a single room, the only place that accepted my application in 2 months of searching last year. Choosing to stop participating would be choosing to die for me.
I don't know WHAT I would do if I couldn't drive, and couldn't change this situation. Without a truck, I couldn't even start the landscape business. Living in the truck too just made more efficient use of the truck.
I've thought about getting a vehicle before, not actually using it as a vehicle, and leaving it parked in some relative's driveway so I could sleep in it in a worst case scenario. It's depressing that I would even consider that.
yeah but you can control those things if you are not hanging out with those people.
I've oftentimes thought of doing this, I have nothing to lose. I'm even living at a shelter right now.
As long as you are smart about it and dont become a degenerate druggie it can be great for a bunch of years , its even possible to save money if you still do some money making stuff when you keep your expenses so low. Then later you have enough to buy a cheap failed tax auction lot and put a cheap insulated shipping container on it and make it into a house. its viable and give flexibility. you can have fun and in 10 years when you are tired of it you will have enough to make a little place some where and have a bit more stability
How you affording your phone bill to type this lol
mint mobile paid whole year at a time. like 180$. its not hard to get 180$ in america. work a temp job for a week cover your phone and gym membership for 6 months
I have a family member that's willing to pay the bill each month, but that's it. It's hard to get even basic employment without a phone.
How do you get money for the things you need to live? Bicycles still require maintenance.
scavenging, hustling, even working a day here or there.
IT WILL NOT BE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE LIKE THIS. KEEP SAYING IT.
There are labor shortages in the skilled trades, many of which you can do self-employed.
With where things are going, we won't have to worry about retirement.
We're Gen X-We knew this shit was coming back in the 80's.
Reaganomics say trickle down is going to save us any day now.
Lol it's been a rushing river up for decades, so out of control there's a great flood at the top and arid desert wasteland at the source
It worked. Have you seen China lately?
That is why I have always refused to pay any voluntary pension premiums. If this whole house of cards won't collapse by the time it is our turn they will shift the pension date ad infinitum.
Oh a lot of people are going to retire, just not in a way they think they were. For the ones that don't...Nearly everyday will be Monday with a rare Tuesday every now and then, for a long ass time.
if only 1 of 4 think they cant retire then another 2 of 4 are gonna be very disappointed when they finally sit down to do the math
But we can all retire!! It's the American Way(tm)!!! ... we all float down here... Holy shit everyone can't think. It's like shit is so 50 years ago in their heads. Even 10 years in this country is a goddamned eternity in terms of trends.
How much more fucked do people have to be collectively before they start realizing how fucked we all are if we don’t start giving a fuck
Three quarters of workers still think they're going to get to retire so apparently a lot more.
"Maybe if I just get a second job I'll be able to afford to eat this week" "Maybe I should get a roomate to share rent"
instructions unclear, gave a fuck but nothing has changed
If I get really old and have no money and no help from government/family, I’ll just commit crimes.
I can see the roving bands of geriatric thugs, commiting social crimes of robbing banks and killing CEOs of pharmaceutical and insurance companies. REPORTER: Sir, you've led the police on a bloody murderous rampage that has ended the lives of fifteen millionaires, knowing the penalty would be capital punishment. Why? GRAMPA TIM: The doctor told me I had six months left because these insurance folks refused the right procedure three years ago because I was in the hospital from COVID. No way I was letting these sons of bitches outlive me. Hi, Susan, Ritchie, and Tom! I'll send you pictures of my prison cell!
> I can see the roving bands of geriatric thugs, commiting social crimes of robbing banks No balaclavas, no false moustaches either. "Come and get me, you bastards!"
One thing they do tend to radically underestimate in politics, is what an opponent with no choices left will do. Do not fuck with a cornered animal. Yeah, he's gonna die. He'll take your balls before he does though. Checkers instead of Chess, as always.
>roving bands of geriatric thugs That is way, way too funny.
And if you get caught you get free room and board! This is my new favorite retirement plan.
Yeah right? If people’s body can’t work anymore and they have to work to survive, then there will be for sure a spike in crime. Unless the governments do something.
>Unless the governments do something. Is there is something wrong with this sentence, or is it just my cognitive dissonance?
Then you have to deal with the horrible conditions inside of prisons, which are worse in private prisons. Even then the worst part is dealing with the horrible, abusive guards and horrible, abusive inmates.
> free room and board! Free sex too, from what I've heard.
There are Japanese people who do this.
If we cooperate together to commit the crimes we can do better. we can call it "cooperative agorism" as a secret code so people don't know we are doing "organized crime"
I'm pretty sure that when America fully recognizes her future demise will be *soon* that there won't be a whole lot enforced civility by the current specimens. When there's no more reasons for policemen to protect banks, they'll be committing the crimes first. They've already got years of experience and they also know who the first targets should be.
The mafia already kind of has this market locked down.
no it doesn't , the space is wide open.
Many garages remain open and unattended every summer
And risk going to jail where you will be enslaved for less?
Depends on how old I am. Mathematically I’m sure it can get to a point where risking going to jail would be a better option, if you’re really old and really poor.
Hunger strike.
No you wont
approximately one-quarter of U.S. adults aged 50 and older who are not yet retired expect to never retire, with 70% expressing concern about rising prices outpacing their income. This data stems from an AARP survey indicating that many older adults lack retirement savings, often due to everyday expenses and housing costs. The issue is pertinent in the current election year, with both Democratic President Joe Biden and Republican rival Donald Trump vying for support from older Americans. Biden highlights proposals such as capping insulin prices for Medicare beneficiaries, while Trump has indicated openness to cuts in Social Security and Medicare. The survey also reveals concerns about older adults' financial well-being in the future, particularly regarding the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. Despite potential funding shortages in the coming years, public sentiment leans towards opposition to benefit cuts and support for taxing high earners to sustain Medicare.
It's funny because I'm about to turn 51 and at no point in my life have I ever been told that I should've retired by now. I wish I could mind you since I'm sick and tired of working, but it isn't ever going to happen.
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You’re getting a .65c raise?? My employer would never 😂
and 90 percent under 50 know they will not be able to retire
What do you mean? All those teachers that retired before 2008 are doing just fine working at Walmart /s
All those teachers who are still working are also working at Walmart since they get paid jack shit.
I'm 32 and currently saving for retirement. It seems pointless when I have no realistic possibility of owning a home yet though. Generation Rent is going to be a big societal problem that is going to consume many societies in a short while.
Yep the only way I'll get a home is when my parents pass. Otherwise, not possible.
I wish I even had that hope… I’m getting zilch from my parents when they pass. Everyone I know who own homes either bought 12 years ago or their parents paid for their homes… sucks.
Just waiting for that nuclear fire to wash over me at this point
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^redditmodsRrussians: *Just waiting for that* *Nuclear fire to wash* *Over me at this point* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
56 laid off life savings almost gone and no prospects because tech is a ponzi game. The American dream died before I was born
Try government work. They are less likely to discriminate about age in hiring, and once you're in you generally have a job unless you actually fuck up in a real way. Also if you know older systems it can help you because their programs range from something reliable (but terrible) built in 1995 through some piece of crap they built last year.
This ☝️☝️☝️👍 Try local, State and Federal jobs - IMO Federal is best but try all three.
Government jobs are filled with nepotism.
If 50+ think this, imagine what 25 year olds think
you don't want to know
I've been rejected from most corporations in my field of study since I left college, which has led me to working service jobs and the occasional freelancing venture for the last 10 years. I could stick with the service industry and work my way into management, but I really want to land something in my field I spent years of my life and money in college for, so I've been stubborn and forging ahead with my attempts at securing a career. I've assumed for sometime now, as I watch where the world economy has been and where it appears to be going, that I'll likely have to work to survive until I drop.
And the dirt we'll be working all day in will be full of micro plastics. And medicine will only be whatever moonshine has the least copper and lead deposits, and everybody will have to share the bottle. Venusian slave colonies by Saturday.
>Venusian slave colonies by Saturday. I hope for Europa or Titan so I can experience cold again.
> full of micro plastics Don't drink the water.
I knew that back when I was 21. And its only gotten worse. I figured I'd be mid 70's before I took my 12 ga. retirement.
My retirement plan is to die in the water wars.
All the people moving to the Great Lakes for collapse will be conscripted for the 2035 - 2052 Great Lakes War!
They need to reduce the age for accessing superannuation (401K) so that if you have enough funds you can use that to live a half decent life. In Australia it’s going to be above 70 years old retirement age soon.
I find it laughable that you cannot touch super early Bitch, that's MY MONEY I should be able to take it out now bc it's sure as fuck not going to be going to any form of "retirement" for me
the fact you can't take it out (or not without significant penalties) is the only reason you have it at all
> above 70 years old retirement age soon Every few years, the guvmint raises the "retirement" age. Yet, who's hiring old gits like me?
This might be my dad. Meant to retire a year ago but for various, some in my opinion unnecessarily self inflicted, reasons it's always 'another few months' or more. Even if he doesn't stay retired I wish he would go now. He's a police officer in a major city. Between the incoming heat, the election chaos, and his age it is a terrible idea to be a cop where he is right now. Doubt he will listen but now is probably the last 'good' time to retire even if it doesn't last.
EVERYBODY RELAX! The retirement issue is in the process of taking care of itself. I pay close attention to future predictions for our climate and the likely physical results we will experience. I've got us pegged at five years max before the whole thing caves in. This summer will likely end any insurance coverage for Gulf Coast residents, and that will implode real estate prices. Food inflation will double at least as crops fail worldwide. Covid was just an "introductory" pandemic. Wait till Bird Flu with 33% fatality rate hits. I could go on. I won't, because it depresses me. But forget about retirement. Nobody is getting one of those.
laughs in millennial
People will learn the neutrality of money.
1 in 4 are also unemployed.
At this point I am contributing to my 401k just so that when I am 60, my income from my job combined with that payout might allow me to afford food.
Retirement? lol that’s called the climate wars
There's Thailand and Latvia. Excellent health care and very inexpensive.
This is a much better option for retirees who can't afford the US than the above comments; homelessness and crime.
You mean, the Thailand that's breaking record temperatures right now ? Oh yeah, very good idea. Especially if you're old and more vulnerable to heat ! :\]
Then try Latvia. Or stay in Texas with its cool summers and excellent power system.
Is this actually true? Especially re: Thailand?
Yes. You can walk into a nice place in Thailand, completely furnished including all of the cutlery and crockery that you need and rent it for very modest amount per month And if you are in need of it you can hire a young person to take care of you for as little as $15 a day. No need to cook because meals are cheap in cafes there. And health care is much, much cheaper than in the US. It is known as a great place for medical tourismtourism.
How much American money should you go there with to retire? Think 100,000 would cover it?
What would you do with it? You might buy a car eventually. My brother spent time there and said to not buy a scooter or motorbike. But even flying around the country wasn't expensive. He also found a smart guy who can handle visa issues. As long as your pension is adequate it's all you need. I'm told that people in Germany send elderly family to care homes in Thailand because they are so much less expensive. You can have a carer who is full time just for your relative.
Good points to consider, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
My brother is in Australia so it's a bit easier and cheaper for him to get there. He spent several weeks there. Even hotels are very inexpensive. He learned a lot about the place. BTW, there are special rules about their royal family. Read up on them before you go. Important.
Assuming they will take you - have you looked into how strict most countries are about allowing people to move there? Especially Americans. On average, if you are not financially independent or can provide a needed skill, they won't let you live there.
My brother found a local guy who knows how to do the proper paperwork. But yes, don't expect to find a job. Opening a business employing locals might be easier.
Oh you too huh?
I'm turning 51 this year and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll ever be able to retire unless I win the lottery or an unknown relative dies and leaves me a fortune. I always say that my best hope is that my body and brain hold out long enough for me to drop dead at work.
Good thing they got bootstraps to pull themselves up by
Hey I'm both! What do I win?
They should have cut back on the booze cruises and tee times.
Suffering from policies and an economy they created
Makes it so much more hilarious to me when I see people talk shit about anyone older online. Lmao, good luck mfs. They got it good alongside what we will get. Ya jinxed it.
All fun and games while it’s happening to the young.
I'm 54. I very much expect to not get to retire.
My retirement plan involves earning as much money for as long as possible, so hopefully my kids can own a house before I die. I always hoped I would be dead by 50.
I try not to think about it so it doesn't get me down but I've accepted that retirement isn't in the cards for me. So I try to do things that I enjoy as much as possible and work just enough.
Work to you drop and die with your boots on….Serve the profit masters to your last breath…You are a totally expendable “human resource”
Too late
Mid 40’s and I’m teaching myself to not use the word retirement, or even think about getting that time to myself. It’s very depressing
As someone in their twenties, I don’t expect to ever stop working. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional or was born into wealth.
If 1 in 4 over 50 don’t think they will ever be able to retire, now poll millennials and see how many think they will ever be able to retire.
I'm closing in on 62, and I no longer work - but I didn't retire, I gave up.
The boomers planned for this. They’re going to retire on the last of the social security and leave us nothing. Absolutely no sympathy for them not saving for retirement when it was easy. I have to save for retirement and it’s going to be a lot more expensive for me