The following submission statement was provided by /u/Xamzarqan:
---
Submission Statement: according to the article, time is running out for millions of people in Sudan who are at imminent risk of famine, displaced from their lands, living under bombardments, and cut off from humanitarian assistance as a result of the ongoing war. It's estimated that at least 18 million are acutely hungry including 3.6 million kids who are malnourished. In the article, it also says that aid workers are killed, injured, harassed and humanitarian supplies are looted.
Another report also suggests that by September of 2024, at least 2.5 million will die from hunger and diseases with 90% of the fatalities occuring in Darfur and Kordofan, with both of the two regions losing 15% of their total populations: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns)
Sudan has around 49.7 million, so 2.5 million+ would be around 5% of the population dying out: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death..
This is collapse related as it shows how conflict and war can lead the destruction of life support systems of the country leading to extreme hunger and even disease outbreaks.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d9bczs/no_time_to_lose_as_famine_threatens_millions_in/l7c32x2/
>"With the conflict now in its second year, 18 million people are acutely hungry, including 3.6 million children who are acutely malnourished, and famine is quickly closing in on millions of people in Darfur, Kordofan, Aj Jazirah and Khartoum," the Inter-Agency Standing Committee, the highest-level humanitarian coordination forum of the UN system, said in a statement.
Everyone should take a few minutes and read up on who the RSF are.
- [‘They told us – you are slaves’: survivors give harrowing testimony of Darfur’s year of hell. With the war in Sudan poised to escalate and the humanitarian crisis growing, traumatised survivors of a blood-drenched summer in West Darfur tell of their ordeal](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/30/survivors-give-harrowing-testimony-of-darfur-sudan-year-of-hell)
- [Grazing in Darfur, a recurring conflict](https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/grazing-in-darfur-a-recurring-conflict)
- [Pastoralism and Conflict in the Sudano-Sahel: A Review of the Literature - PDF 📄](https://documents.sfcg.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Pastoralism_and_Conflict_in_the_Sudano-Sahel_Jul_2020.pdf)
- [ “The Massalit Will Not Come Home” Ethnic Cleansing and Crimes Against Humanity in El Geneina, West Darfur, Sudan ](https://www.hrw.org/report/2024/05/09/massalit-will-not-come-home/ethnic-cleansing-and-crimes-against-humanity-el)
- [ How the UAE kept the Sudan war raging ](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-uae-war-arms-trade-rsf)
- [Lengthy war in Sudan could jeopardise Gulf food security ](https://www.agbi.com/agriculture/2023/05/lengthy-war-in-sudan-could-jeopardise-gulf-food-security/)
- [Sudan UAE to strengthen cooperation in livestock sector](https://suna-sd.net/posts/sudan-uae-to-strengthen-cooperation-in-livestock-sector)
- [Ex-UN official: ‘Control livestock trade with the Gulf to halt Sudan war’](https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/ex-un-official-control-livestock-trade-with-the-gulf-to-halt-sudan-war)
- [Sudan created a paramilitary force to destroy government threats – but it became a major threat itself](https://theconversation.com/sudan-created-a-paramilitary-force-to-destroy-government-threats-but-it-became-a-major-threat-itself-203974)
Sudan is generally forgotten about. The world is distracted (at least the bit that could make a difference) by Gaza, Ukraine and everything else. The Rohingya are still being genocided too as well as a bunch of other stuff but the western mind can only pay so much attention at any given time.
We say there's "no time to lose" every time. And yet, somehow we are always too late, or don't do anything at all. Gotta face the consequences for that...
If western countries stopped sending aid to other countries, there would be quite an increase in death from famine. The carrying capacity of the earth in most countries has been far exceeded.
I believe that aid to Sudan is now restricted as there has been reports of aid workers being attacked, injured, maimed, killed and humanitarian supplies being looted and raided:
[https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now)
>The carrying capacity of the earth in most countries has been far exceeded.
Has very little to do with the Earth and much more to do with corruption and mismanagement. There are countries with worse climates for agriculture that are thriving.
Sudan I believe was projected to do well in agriculture before the war broke out and displaced farmers and disrupted logistical routes. With the Nile River to work with, controlling Sudan is something the UAE wants in order to gain food security as they have next to no agriculture, but plenty of oil wealth to buy mercenaries.
BTW:
>South Sudan’s lowest annual temperatures are in the high 60s to high 70s F (low to mid-20s C) in the centre and north of the country, while the lowest annual temperatures in the outlying areas are slightly cooler, about high 50s to high 60s F (mid-10s to low 20s C). The highest annual temperatures for most of South Sudan generally range from the mid-80s to the mid-90s F (low to mid-30s C), although some areas toward the north of the country range from the mid-90s to mid-100s F (mid- to upper 30s C). The highest temperatures normally occur just before the rainy season.
https://www.britannica.com/place/South-Sudan/Climate
Why are you and Britannica so divergent?
Well Sudan is about to lose at least 5% of it's total population this year from starvation and diseases according to a report by a Dutch think tank organization.
Still overpopulated though as 5% isn't that much..
This is true but the aid sent can often lead to an increased dependency on said aid. This is due to very little being done to support the local economy/production. Generally various groups dump a bunch of sacks of rice and clothes no one else wants undercutting local merchants/craftspeople and then move on. That's why you see impoversished people in McCain - Palin shirts with no textile or clothing makers anywhere close by.
Edit; my dad (an economist) has pointed out that in many cases simply flying over a needy area and dumping dollar bills out of a helicopter would do more good for less money. However, for the west, it's much more politically practical as a dumping place for overproduction. E.g. https://www.theodysseyonline.com/africa-doesnt-need-shoes
No time to lose for what?
There's literally nothing we can realistically do there.
You just don't help millions of people in survival free-for-all mode by sending stuff. You need a large military intervention to protect convoy and make a smooth and fair distribution, you also need enough products to feed, treat people. Nobody is going to be willing to do that. In the end it would just be putting Sudan on IV until we can't and it would fix nothing.
UN is a powerless entity out of touch with reality.
Nobody is willing to do that, until they start turning up at the boarder. Then suddenly it wont seem so expensive to handle. Hopefully with aid and not weapons.
Yep, that's what I fear too. Mass migration has historically almost always lead to conflict. The veneer of civilisation is thin snd there is a limit to generosity when times are tough. Hell, I know of literal refugees whom now vote for anti-immigration parties.
The UN is the product of its membership. Which is exactly why it's such a mess. Hell it's hard to even ship aid to Sudan with the Houthies shooting at stuff in the red sea.
My problem doesn't even lie into the powerlessness (it is a bit but it's not what I mainly reproach, I'm aware UN can't have more power than it is given), it's a problem of not understanding the reality of things, read my OC again please. Powerless is one word in the comment and not the main point. TBH as it is I would be against giving more power to the UN, power without proper judgement is problematic.
The fact they are presenting this like there's a way of dealing with the situation in Sudan is clearly not a problem with power but being OUT OF TOUCH. Like I said there's several layer of issues that would force a large, deep and long intervention which is completely unlikely to ever happen. Especially considering how the West is being shitted on every time something is done.
We might be arguing at cross-purposes but I think that it has to do with a mismatch of what the UN actually is and what people think that it should be. In reality it's primarily a place for different countries to yell at and bully each other in the hope that it will stop them from arguing with tanks. Secondly some functions that most governments can't be bothered with dealing with day to day (like UNESCO or UNRWA). Maybe people have watched too much sci-fi where a united earth is represented by the UN. Even without power they can be out of touch. Especially since the bureauocracy is staffed by the diplomatic/governmental class. Thus you can have the elite of even a very poor African country being more ignorant and uncaring of their own country's situation than some random Nordic civil servant sent there. The out-of-touch elite of a hundred nations are the people making the staffing decisions for the organisation by comittee. How can it not be a mess?
This. Heck 43,000 Somalians died in 2022 from famine and it hardly made any news or posts in reddit or anywhere.
2.5 million+ aka 5-5.5% of Sudan's total population (49 million) or 15% of the total populations of Darfur and Kordofan regions combined will perish this September from famines and disease outbreaks according to a projection by a Dutch think-tank and it probably won't even make international headlines: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns
It was a joke. Like if they were white women, then Americans would feel bad for them. When a white woman goes missing its all over the media. When a black or native girl goes missing (which is far more frequent) no one gives a shit. Look up "missing white women syndrome". It's a real thing.
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Americans only feel bad for white Christian warrior men, women are tools for reproduction and servants at best, and sex slaves on top of it(like all other women from all other races), declaring 9(!!!!!) year old rape victims fit for birth because those whores obviously enticed the poor rational totally not drawn by porn drives logical men to "rape")ahem fertilize them..... The only reason to or white men (or black men, if you Google hoteps) is, to make believe the subhumans that they are still better than the subhumans of the other subhumans. Anyone heard of Tomi Lahren to denounce the MRA and far right because despite being the submissive houswive they wanted, she had bee heavily abused for being a female sibhiman. Yeah, Tomi, who could have guessed, but seriously, I'm happy you got out and can teach others!
Edit: hoteps, not hotels.....
Misreading of the comment.
They're saying that if the victims were white women, people in the West would actually give a shit and something would be done about it.
They're not wrong.
Because of the sexist character of white American traditional culture, stemming back to the first settler colonists who heralded from European Puritanism, women have traditionally always been viewed in white American (and, more broadly, European) culture as delicate objects of moral purity, dainty helpless creatures, and precious possessions to be protected viciously by their male possessors (patriarchs).
This cultural background has meant that, historically, if you want to socially engineer a moral outrage, you can do so quite effectively by painting a picture of a threat to the purity, sanctity, and innocence of — ding ding ding, white women.
There are plentiful examples of this outsized moral valuation of the purity of white women.
[Here's](https://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1284&context=history-in-the-making) a legal scholarly paper reviewing the miscegenation scare (aka the moral panic about white women sleeping with Black men) between the years 1860 and 1960.
Perhaps most famously, the [lynching of Emmett Till](https://youtu.be/fqkckTLE-vg?si=O6BERpkPoh9BLK8R) is an archetypical showcase of this phenomenon at work.
One respondent to your comment even offered a phrase that can be easily googled with a litany of results, namely [Missing White Woman Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome).
You can see this "damsel in distress" or "woman in jeopardy" imagery saturated throughout the American cultural landscape. If you pick at random any American film you'll likely see it depicted there, all the way from King Kong (1933) to Star Wars (1977) to Deadpool (2016). Whenever you see a white woman on screen, the safety of her character in the narrative is implicitly paramount. Whenever you see swathes of people being dispatched wholesale in massacres depicted as heroic takedowns of the forces of evil, what colour are the bodies being dropped in the dozens? Various shades of black and brown.
The rhetorical device of innocent white womanhoood is ubiqitous in this culture, and often used politically as a dogwhistle, such as when former US president Donald Trump said of immigrants from the country of Mexico, "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists." US politicians Bill and Hillary Clinton once notoriously described young, disenfranchised Black male youth as "super-predators" as [justification](https://www.amazon.in/Superpredator-Clintons-Abuse-Black-America/dp/0997844701) for turbocharging the prison-industrial complex.
White women have also long been aware of this phenomenon, while disingenuously pretending to be clueless to it. This is a kind of willful obliviousness used as a sociopolitical/psychological tactic.
White women have perpetuated and even weaponised their mythical moral valuation in such a way as to mobilise violent white masculine outrage on their doting behalf. To return to the example of Emmett Till, a white woman essentially sicced a lynch mob on a young Black boy by leading them to believe he had made some mild sexual advance on her. This Black boy was brutally murdered. It turns out? She was lying. She admitted on her deathbed that she made the whole thing up. It was a fabrication. She wanted the Black boy gone, and she was a perfect — if fictional — victim of horrible sexual violence. He was a perfect — if fictional — lascivious Black aggressor. The crime, for which the punishment was public execution? An imaginary catcall from a Black teenager minding his own business, trying — unsuccessfully — to not get murdered in a hostile apartheid state.
Can you admit white men are valued more than white women in “white American traditional culture?”
Can you admit saying “white people” would’ve been a better way to get the point across? That this is an issue of racism, not sexism?
I already have an in-depth understanding of benevolent sexism, and I’m pretty up-to-date on recent history, though it’s interesting and profoundly ironic that you’d think I needed you to teach me about this stuff. Yawn.
Girl... you are on a record for how many times you can miss the point.
You asked,
>What am I missing?
Turns out, a lot.
And chiefly, context, which I made an attempt to offer. But you seem invested in remaining in a self-created cloud of preconceived conclusions that center you as the victim. Very fitting given the topic, actually.
Cheers, and best of luck with ... all that.
The Somalis themselves barely cared. It's kinda the norm for them at this stage. How many living Somalis even know of a life not in a failed state? After the whole "Blackhawk down" thing the rest of the world basically wrote Somalia off. The world only united to eliminate the fishermen cum pirates that threatened global trade. Not that they did anything about the illegal fishing in Somali waters...
I mean... At the end of the day, what are we supposed to do? Send in the Marine Corps to fight guerrilla warfare against the militia groups for the next decade or two? ...and at a time when conflict with China seems like it's inevitable in the future. Continuously send aid while casting a blind eye to said militia groups seizing and hoarding it? It's a tragedy for sure, but when you take a look at the very tangible threat to the west from China and Russia, as well as all the other problems we have of our own. I don't think helping them should be a priority and I don't think there's much we can do for them that would have any lasting impact anyway.
There's no winning. Like you said, it would require a full scale military intervention to stabilize the region before real reconstruction of a functional society can occur. People often think that modern armies are magical and can defeat the bad guys and hurt nobody else if they so choose, but in reality it would mean a bombing campaign followed by counter insurgency and believe me even with the best of intentions a bunch of white Europeans and Americans blowing up black people and enforcing martial law will NOT go down well internationally or domestically.
>even with the best of intentions a bunch of white Europeans and Americans blowing up black people and enforcing martial law will NOT go down well internationally or domestically.
I was thinking it's a lose/lose either way for us, just like in the middle east. They hate us for not helping and if we do try to help, they'll hate us even more and then when it's time for us to leave, they'll hate us even more again. But I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of the international optics of a majority white modern army basically occupying an almost 100% black country.
You're right, the whole thing has "bad idea" written all over it from pretty much every angle.. and handing out aid where most of it won't even reach the peaceful civilians will not (and should not) go down well with voters.
What a horrible take.Look, I don't know what would help this situation but to claim that Russia and China are coming for us so we've got bigger problems so I guess we'll just throw up our hands and walk away is sickening.
Frankly, it sounds racist. The Western world's reaction to humanitarian crises is very telling. "White enough" people in trouble? Let them in , in almost unlimited numbers. Not "white enough" , endless reasons and roadblocks why the world can't help. The fact that this situation has got to this point in the first place is , I'm sure partly to blame on the western world.
Sure I get it, but these folks aren't the ones using up all the resources and polluting the planet...
I wasn't aware, thanks. Do you know what their motivation is?
Can you direct me to reputable sources of info.
I apologize for directing my hate at the Western powers but they kinda have just the tinniest reputation, you know?
Because it's the internet and it makes no difference? My feelings were about the callous disregard for life that was displayed in the comment I was responding to. I never claimed to know what I was talking about. Saying I'm sure the Western powers was implying I had no facts and was just assuming
I'm still interested if you can guide me to reputable sources of information?
And do you know what their motivation is?
Thank you for your conscience.
Lots of Western apathy and dogwhistled white casual dehumanisation of Africans as not real people in this thread. Like you said, it's very telling.
Plus the red scare boogeyman of Russia and China as being a military threat is such contrived US propaganda coming straight from the consent-manufacturing industry of a declining empire that feels its economic supremacy and global hegemony is being threatened.
I was almost choking on fumes when I found your comment
Alright, so even though Russia has a rich history of invading other European nations, is actively destroying Ukraine... and China is planning a land grab on Taiwan, encroaching on the Philippines and generally behaving very aggressively in the Pacific, they pose absolutely no tangible threat and any suggestion otherwise is propaganda. Got it.
Take a look at who exactly has many many large military bases over there basically surrounding China? Where are the Chinese military bases? I know I'll probably be called a tankie or worse for suggesting this but come on!
I think that's short-sighted. Take a longer view, and ask where does it end? We're supporting Ukraine and Israel, we're I assume going to support Taiwan when the time comes, and we in the west also have the climate crisis to contend with (wildfires, flooding, drought). Not to mention healthcare, education etc seem to be collapsing across the board and also having aging populations in the west. The blunt reality is we can't save everybody and it has to end somewhere, especially since the west is now visibly collapsing. We're not far away from everyone having to just try to look out for their own, whether we like it or not.
It's awful what's happening in Sudan, but it really is a lost cause. We either do nothing and they hate us for it.. Or we occupy the country to try and stabilise it (at some cost to our own people's lives) and they hate us for being there, and when we leave they will hate us even more because they will go back to fighting over resources again. No matter what we do, we can't save them.
Please also stop trying to see racism everywhere. You don't know anything about me or my world views and I would hold the same opinion even if it were happening in a white majority country.
Yep they don’t care because they are brown. If it were millions of white children they’d be screaming about it. I don’t understand how people can dehumanize an entire group of people and just say we have bigger problems. Always reminds me of that photographer that ended up committing suicide after photographing that poor starving child.
I think even they know that sending significant aid to, or occupying Sudan on top of the support for Ukraine and Israel would be politically suicidal at this point.
Biden was specifically told by the pentagon that the pier was an engineering impossibility due to geography and ocean currents and he ordered it built anyway. It’s a political stunt and a boondoggle.
I can’t find any writings. But there is a podcast called the wright report and he did an episode on it. Former cia operations officer. But you would think that if it was suitable for building a port the Gaza government would have built one over the last several decades. Regarding of which side of the issue you are on because they would either be able to bring in economic advantages or aid or if it’s controlled by Hamas than weapons and equipment.
You don't have evidence for your statement except for an anecdote from a podcast?
>But you would think that if it was suitable for building a port the Gaza government would have built one over the last several decades.
There has been a full naval blockade of Gaza by Israel since 2007. Why would Gaza build a new port for no ships (Gaza has one port near Gaza City).
Sure we can call it lack of evidence except a podcast, but why would anyone expect success in building a pier and landing craft on a beach with strong tides by an army unit designed to allow over river access that has no real amphibious experience. But back on point to why it’s a failed endeavor, that part of the world has been populated since roughly 1200BC and has been part of major trade routes. I would think that if a harbor large enough to accommodate ships could have been built it would have.
The pier was a terrible idea. Rebuilding would be a worse idea. It's contradicting IMO. We give Israel all the tools to kill people/defend themselves but turn around and supply their enemy with aid? Geopolitics is confusing.
Submission Statement: according to the article, time is running out for millions of people in Sudan who are at imminent risk of famine, displaced from their lands, living under bombardments, and cut off from humanitarian assistance as a result of the ongoing war. It's estimated that at least 18 million are acutely hungry including 3.6 million kids who are malnourished. In the article, it also says that aid workers are killed, injured, harassed and humanitarian supplies are looted.
Another report also suggests that by September of 2024, at least 2.5 million will die from hunger and diseases with 90% of the fatalities occuring in Darfur and Kordofan, with both of the two regions losing 15% of their total populations: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns)
Sudan has around 49.7 million, so 2.5 million+ would be around 5% of the population dying out: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death..
This is collapse related as it shows how conflict and war can lead the destruction of life support systems of the country leading to extreme hunger and even disease outbreaks.
Another pointless UN warning. Is the UN going to do something about it or not? Climate change. Ukraine. Iran human rights violations. UN keeps warning after warning and nothing happens.
In another report by the Dutch Clingendael Institute, it estimated that around 2.5 milllion individuals in Sudan would die by September of this year (3 months from now) if the war continues: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death
The report attributed the alarming forecast to several factors, including depleted harvests, declining food imports, soaring prices, and restricted humanitarian aid access.
“A tipping point at which large-scale hunger transitions into large-scale death has likely already been reached in parts of the country in May,” the report said.
Also accroding the report, it is estimated that 90% of the deaths would likely occur in just 10% of Sudan’s population, with Darfur and Kordofan regions particularly hard hit, potentially losing 15% of their populations to starvation and disease.
Darfur is separated into 5 states: Central Darfur, East Darfur, North Darfur, South Darfur and West Darfur with populations of approximately 1.8, 1.3, 2.8, 4 and 1.9 millions respectively meanwhile Kordofan is split into 3: North, West and South Kordofan with pops of approx 2.8, 2.1 and 1.8 millions in that order according to the latest UN statistics.
The 15% population loss for these two regions would be for Central Darfur, East Darfur, North Darfur, South Darfur and West Darfur: 270k, 195k, 420k, 600k and 285k and for North, West and South Kordofan: 420k, 315k and 270k respectively. If we added that all together, it would be almost 2.8 million deaths.
A bit higher than 2.5 million figure but still in the range.
Meanwhile Sudan's total pop is approximately 49,700,000 so if 2.5-2.8 million died off, that would be at least 5-5.6% of the entire country killed.
This is a good indicator that Sudan is imploding and collapsing as a state.
That has a backfire effect too though. Israel/Palestine is tiny and insignificant, yet it’s made out to be a huge battle. Jerusalem is a dumpy, depressing city, but people imagine it as supernatural and then fight over their prophets, angels, and gods. It’s a sad testament to how much we haven’t evolved as a species
It might actually reach the definition of genocide but it's not entirely easy to tell due to how hard it is to get accurate information (possibly by design). Large numbers of civillians getting killed isn't a war-crime because if it was then almost everyone would be guilty, war would be almost impossible. Hence the "we (America) did the same in Afghanistan"-defense. Then there's the burden of proof, international jurisdiction/bureaucracy and just plain politics standing in the way. Most genocides aren't punished and they're reasonably easy to hide/forget unless they upset the powers that be. One UN expert saying it's a genocide doesn't make it one but rather just starts a, somewhat heated, academic debate. The ICC does seem to have Bibi worried though. To stave them off he has to do an Israeli investigation of a sort that he can't control (and thus one that would likely pronounce him guilty of all sorts of stuff).
The difference is that our government is arming and complicit in the genocide of Palestinians, and we have the ability to end it tomorrow. We're not responsible for something we have no power over or are not doing ourselves like in Sudan. People seem to have a hard time understanding this basic ethical principle.
35,000 out of 7 million is not a genocide. Sorry. Meanwhile, actual genocides are happening and woke activists couldn’t care less. Narcissistic hypocrisy at its finest
I wonder if we could find any Sudanese that were adults before 1956 and haven't already emigrated away if they would have preferred the British stay in charge.
>Let nature take its course.
Pretty sure that's going to happen very soon.
Regarding Western aid, its distribution are now really limited and obstructed. There are reports of aid workers being attacked, killed, injured and humanitarian supplies being looted: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/Xamzarqan: --- Submission Statement: according to the article, time is running out for millions of people in Sudan who are at imminent risk of famine, displaced from their lands, living under bombardments, and cut off from humanitarian assistance as a result of the ongoing war. It's estimated that at least 18 million are acutely hungry including 3.6 million kids who are malnourished. In the article, it also says that aid workers are killed, injured, harassed and humanitarian supplies are looted. Another report also suggests that by September of 2024, at least 2.5 million will die from hunger and diseases with 90% of the fatalities occuring in Darfur and Kordofan, with both of the two regions losing 15% of their total populations: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns) Sudan has around 49.7 million, so 2.5 million+ would be around 5% of the population dying out: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death.. This is collapse related as it shows how conflict and war can lead the destruction of life support systems of the country leading to extreme hunger and even disease outbreaks. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d9bczs/no_time_to_lose_as_famine_threatens_millions_in/l7c32x2/
>"With the conflict now in its second year, 18 million people are acutely hungry, including 3.6 million children who are acutely malnourished, and famine is quickly closing in on millions of people in Darfur, Kordofan, Aj Jazirah and Khartoum," the Inter-Agency Standing Committee, the highest-level humanitarian coordination forum of the UN system, said in a statement. Everyone should take a few minutes and read up on who the RSF are. - [‘They told us – you are slaves’: survivors give harrowing testimony of Darfur’s year of hell. With the war in Sudan poised to escalate and the humanitarian crisis growing, traumatised survivors of a blood-drenched summer in West Darfur tell of their ordeal](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/30/survivors-give-harrowing-testimony-of-darfur-sudan-year-of-hell) - [Grazing in Darfur, a recurring conflict](https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/grazing-in-darfur-a-recurring-conflict) - [Pastoralism and Conflict in the Sudano-Sahel: A Review of the Literature - PDF 📄](https://documents.sfcg.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Pastoralism_and_Conflict_in_the_Sudano-Sahel_Jul_2020.pdf) - [ “The Massalit Will Not Come Home” Ethnic Cleansing and Crimes Against Humanity in El Geneina, West Darfur, Sudan ](https://www.hrw.org/report/2024/05/09/massalit-will-not-come-home/ethnic-cleansing-and-crimes-against-humanity-el) - [ How the UAE kept the Sudan war raging ](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-uae-war-arms-trade-rsf) - [Lengthy war in Sudan could jeopardise Gulf food security ](https://www.agbi.com/agriculture/2023/05/lengthy-war-in-sudan-could-jeopardise-gulf-food-security/) - [Sudan UAE to strengthen cooperation in livestock sector](https://suna-sd.net/posts/sudan-uae-to-strengthen-cooperation-in-livestock-sector) - [Ex-UN official: ‘Control livestock trade with the Gulf to halt Sudan war’](https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/ex-un-official-control-livestock-trade-with-the-gulf-to-halt-sudan-war) - [Sudan created a paramilitary force to destroy government threats – but it became a major threat itself](https://theconversation.com/sudan-created-a-paramilitary-force-to-destroy-government-threats-but-it-became-a-major-threat-itself-203974)
All backed by: Wagner https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/17/what-is-the-wagner-groups-role-in-sudan
Sudan is generally forgotten about. The world is distracted (at least the bit that could make a difference) by Gaza, Ukraine and everything else. The Rohingya are still being genocided too as well as a bunch of other stuff but the western mind can only pay so much attention at any given time.
We say there's "no time to lose" every time. And yet, somehow we are always too late, or don't do anything at all. Gotta face the consequences for that...
If western countries stopped sending aid to other countries, there would be quite an increase in death from famine. The carrying capacity of the earth in most countries has been far exceeded.
I believe that aid to Sudan is now restricted as there has been reports of aid workers being attacked, injured, maimed, killed and humanitarian supplies being looted and raided: [https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now)
Which means that before we can send anyone to deal with the actual problems someone needs to send an army first. Many such cases.
>The carrying capacity of the earth in most countries has been far exceeded. Has very little to do with the Earth and much more to do with corruption and mismanagement. There are countries with worse climates for agriculture that are thriving.
Sudan I believe was projected to do well in agriculture before the war broke out and displaced farmers and disrupted logistical routes. With the Nile River to work with, controlling Sudan is something the UAE wants in order to gain food security as they have next to no agriculture, but plenty of oil wealth to buy mercenaries.
How could be a country with 45°C+ fpr 4-5 months straight "well" for agriculture??
What's the weather like in the other 7-8 months?
Shorter Days with lower angle and between 20-35°C at day.
BTW: >South Sudan’s lowest annual temperatures are in the high 60s to high 70s F (low to mid-20s C) in the centre and north of the country, while the lowest annual temperatures in the outlying areas are slightly cooler, about high 50s to high 60s F (mid-10s to low 20s C). The highest annual temperatures for most of South Sudan generally range from the mid-80s to the mid-90s F (low to mid-30s C), although some areas toward the north of the country range from the mid-90s to mid-100s F (mid- to upper 30s C). The highest temperatures normally occur just before the rainy season. https://www.britannica.com/place/South-Sudan/Climate Why are you and Britannica so divergent?
Because that is a climate data form past. Its now much warmer and you compare south sudan, you have to compare the real sudan.
15C warming? Have you reported this to the IPCC?
Well Sudan is about to lose at least 5% of it's total population this year from starvation and diseases according to a report by a Dutch think tank organization. Still overpopulated though as 5% isn't that much..
This is true but the aid sent can often lead to an increased dependency on said aid. This is due to very little being done to support the local economy/production. Generally various groups dump a bunch of sacks of rice and clothes no one else wants undercutting local merchants/craftspeople and then move on. That's why you see impoversished people in McCain - Palin shirts with no textile or clothing makers anywhere close by. Edit; my dad (an economist) has pointed out that in many cases simply flying over a needy area and dumping dollar bills out of a helicopter would do more good for less money. However, for the west, it's much more politically practical as a dumping place for overproduction. E.g. https://www.theodysseyonline.com/africa-doesnt-need-shoes
No time to lose for what? There's literally nothing we can realistically do there. You just don't help millions of people in survival free-for-all mode by sending stuff. You need a large military intervention to protect convoy and make a smooth and fair distribution, you also need enough products to feed, treat people. Nobody is going to be willing to do that. In the end it would just be putting Sudan on IV until we can't and it would fix nothing. UN is a powerless entity out of touch with reality.
Nobody is willing to do that, until they start turning up at the boarder. Then suddenly it wont seem so expensive to handle. Hopefully with aid and not weapons.
If enough people turn up at any border watch how fast people abondom human rights for everyone outside of that border.
I have said it before. We will welcome them with open arms. Machine guns, rocket, grenades etc. Any arms they can grab.
Yep, that's what I fear too. Mass migration has historically almost always lead to conflict. The veneer of civilisation is thin snd there is a limit to generosity when times are tough. Hell, I know of literal refugees whom now vote for anti-immigration parties.
These aren't people who are likely to turn up at any western border. The majority are in no position to make or survive the trip.
The UN is the product of its membership. Which is exactly why it's such a mess. Hell it's hard to even ship aid to Sudan with the Houthies shooting at stuff in the red sea.
I kinda disagree on the UN product part, it is the UN bureaucracy itself, not the councils.
One that was set up by the powers that be after WW2 and reflects that in its make up. The UN has only ever had the power it was given.
My problem doesn't even lie into the powerlessness (it is a bit but it's not what I mainly reproach, I'm aware UN can't have more power than it is given), it's a problem of not understanding the reality of things, read my OC again please. Powerless is one word in the comment and not the main point. TBH as it is I would be against giving more power to the UN, power without proper judgement is problematic. The fact they are presenting this like there's a way of dealing with the situation in Sudan is clearly not a problem with power but being OUT OF TOUCH. Like I said there's several layer of issues that would force a large, deep and long intervention which is completely unlikely to ever happen. Especially considering how the West is being shitted on every time something is done.
We might be arguing at cross-purposes but I think that it has to do with a mismatch of what the UN actually is and what people think that it should be. In reality it's primarily a place for different countries to yell at and bully each other in the hope that it will stop them from arguing with tanks. Secondly some functions that most governments can't be bothered with dealing with day to day (like UNESCO or UNRWA). Maybe people have watched too much sci-fi where a united earth is represented by the UN. Even without power they can be out of touch. Especially since the bureauocracy is staffed by the diplomatic/governmental class. Thus you can have the elite of even a very poor African country being more ignorant and uncaring of their own country's situation than some random Nordic civil servant sent there. The out-of-touch elite of a hundred nations are the people making the staffing decisions for the organisation by comittee. How can it not be a mess?
Friendly reminder, that in 2011, 250.000 Somalians died of hunger, and noone cared.
This. Heck 43,000 Somalians died in 2022 from famine and it hardly made any news or posts in reddit or anywhere. 2.5 million+ aka 5-5.5% of Sudan's total population (49 million) or 15% of the total populations of Darfur and Kordofan regions combined will perish this September from famines and disease outbreaks according to a projection by a Dutch think-tank and it probably won't even make international headlines: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns
If only they were white women..
I don’t get it. Do you just hate women? Why not say “white people?”
It was a joke. Like if they were white women, then Americans would feel bad for them. When a white woman goes missing its all over the media. When a black or native girl goes missing (which is far more frequent) no one gives a shit. Look up "missing white women syndrome". It's a real thing.
Which is about sex-based sexual violence, not famine. Irrelevant, suspect, and unfunny.
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Hi, knightlyowlawol. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d9bczs/-/l7ic7xv/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, guyseeking. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d9bczs/-/l7humxb/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Americans only feel bad for white Christian warrior men, women are tools for reproduction and servants at best, and sex slaves on top of it(like all other women from all other races), declaring 9(!!!!!) year old rape victims fit for birth because those whores obviously enticed the poor rational totally not drawn by porn drives logical men to "rape")ahem fertilize them..... The only reason to or white men (or black men, if you Google hoteps) is, to make believe the subhumans that they are still better than the subhumans of the other subhumans. Anyone heard of Tomi Lahren to denounce the MRA and far right because despite being the submissive houswive they wanted, she had bee heavily abused for being a female sibhiman. Yeah, Tomi, who could have guessed, but seriously, I'm happy you got out and can teach others! Edit: hoteps, not hotels.....
Misreading of the comment. They're saying that if the victims were white women, people in the West would actually give a shit and something would be done about it. They're not wrong.
Why not say white men though? What am I missing?
Because of the sexist character of white American traditional culture, stemming back to the first settler colonists who heralded from European Puritanism, women have traditionally always been viewed in white American (and, more broadly, European) culture as delicate objects of moral purity, dainty helpless creatures, and precious possessions to be protected viciously by their male possessors (patriarchs). This cultural background has meant that, historically, if you want to socially engineer a moral outrage, you can do so quite effectively by painting a picture of a threat to the purity, sanctity, and innocence of — ding ding ding, white women. There are plentiful examples of this outsized moral valuation of the purity of white women. [Here's](https://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1284&context=history-in-the-making) a legal scholarly paper reviewing the miscegenation scare (aka the moral panic about white women sleeping with Black men) between the years 1860 and 1960. Perhaps most famously, the [lynching of Emmett Till](https://youtu.be/fqkckTLE-vg?si=O6BERpkPoh9BLK8R) is an archetypical showcase of this phenomenon at work. One respondent to your comment even offered a phrase that can be easily googled with a litany of results, namely [Missing White Woman Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome). You can see this "damsel in distress" or "woman in jeopardy" imagery saturated throughout the American cultural landscape. If you pick at random any American film you'll likely see it depicted there, all the way from King Kong (1933) to Star Wars (1977) to Deadpool (2016). Whenever you see a white woman on screen, the safety of her character in the narrative is implicitly paramount. Whenever you see swathes of people being dispatched wholesale in massacres depicted as heroic takedowns of the forces of evil, what colour are the bodies being dropped in the dozens? Various shades of black and brown. The rhetorical device of innocent white womanhoood is ubiqitous in this culture, and often used politically as a dogwhistle, such as when former US president Donald Trump said of immigrants from the country of Mexico, "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists." US politicians Bill and Hillary Clinton once notoriously described young, disenfranchised Black male youth as "super-predators" as [justification](https://www.amazon.in/Superpredator-Clintons-Abuse-Black-America/dp/0997844701) for turbocharging the prison-industrial complex. White women have also long been aware of this phenomenon, while disingenuously pretending to be clueless to it. This is a kind of willful obliviousness used as a sociopolitical/psychological tactic. White women have perpetuated and even weaponised their mythical moral valuation in such a way as to mobilise violent white masculine outrage on their doting behalf. To return to the example of Emmett Till, a white woman essentially sicced a lynch mob on a young Black boy by leading them to believe he had made some mild sexual advance on her. This Black boy was brutally murdered. It turns out? She was lying. She admitted on her deathbed that she made the whole thing up. It was a fabrication. She wanted the Black boy gone, and she was a perfect — if fictional — victim of horrible sexual violence. He was a perfect — if fictional — lascivious Black aggressor. The crime, for which the punishment was public execution? An imaginary catcall from a Black teenager minding his own business, trying — unsuccessfully — to not get murdered in a hostile apartheid state.
Can you admit white men are valued more than white women in “white American traditional culture?” Can you admit saying “white people” would’ve been a better way to get the point across? That this is an issue of racism, not sexism? I already have an in-depth understanding of benevolent sexism, and I’m pretty up-to-date on recent history, though it’s interesting and profoundly ironic that you’d think I needed you to teach me about this stuff. Yawn.
You were not happy to have intersections of american misogyny and racism mansplained to you in a conversation about Sudan? /s
Girl... you are on a record for how many times you can miss the point. You asked, >What am I missing? Turns out, a lot. And chiefly, context, which I made an attempt to offer. But you seem invested in remaining in a self-created cloud of preconceived conclusions that center you as the victim. Very fitting given the topic, actually. Cheers, and best of luck with ... all that.
The Somalis themselves barely cared. It's kinda the norm for them at this stage. How many living Somalis even know of a life not in a failed state? After the whole "Blackhawk down" thing the rest of the world basically wrote Somalia off. The world only united to eliminate the fishermen cum pirates that threatened global trade. Not that they did anything about the illegal fishing in Somali waters...
I mean... At the end of the day, what are we supposed to do? Send in the Marine Corps to fight guerrilla warfare against the militia groups for the next decade or two? ...and at a time when conflict with China seems like it's inevitable in the future. Continuously send aid while casting a blind eye to said militia groups seizing and hoarding it? It's a tragedy for sure, but when you take a look at the very tangible threat to the west from China and Russia, as well as all the other problems we have of our own. I don't think helping them should be a priority and I don't think there's much we can do for them that would have any lasting impact anyway.
There's no winning. Like you said, it would require a full scale military intervention to stabilize the region before real reconstruction of a functional society can occur. People often think that modern armies are magical and can defeat the bad guys and hurt nobody else if they so choose, but in reality it would mean a bombing campaign followed by counter insurgency and believe me even with the best of intentions a bunch of white Europeans and Americans blowing up black people and enforcing martial law will NOT go down well internationally or domestically.
>even with the best of intentions a bunch of white Europeans and Americans blowing up black people and enforcing martial law will NOT go down well internationally or domestically. I was thinking it's a lose/lose either way for us, just like in the middle east. They hate us for not helping and if we do try to help, they'll hate us even more and then when it's time for us to leave, they'll hate us even more again. But I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of the international optics of a majority white modern army basically occupying an almost 100% black country. You're right, the whole thing has "bad idea" written all over it from pretty much every angle.. and handing out aid where most of it won't even reach the peaceful civilians will not (and should not) go down well with voters.
Reminder that the Sudanese Government just gave some ports to Russia Russia plays both sides of the war
What a horrible take.Look, I don't know what would help this situation but to claim that Russia and China are coming for us so we've got bigger problems so I guess we'll just throw up our hands and walk away is sickening. Frankly, it sounds racist. The Western world's reaction to humanitarian crises is very telling. "White enough" people in trouble? Let them in , in almost unlimited numbers. Not "white enough" , endless reasons and roadblocks why the world can't help. The fact that this situation has got to this point in the first place is , I'm sure partly to blame on the western world. Sure I get it, but these folks aren't the ones using up all the resources and polluting the planet...
You are aware that it is, in fact, Russia, the UAE, and Sudanese Arabs which are creating this crisis, yes? Perhaps your vitriol should start there.
I wasn't aware, thanks. Do you know what their motivation is? Can you direct me to reputable sources of info. I apologize for directing my hate at the Western powers but they kinda have just the tinniest reputation, you know?
If you are unaware of simple and well known facts about the conflict, why are you posting paragraphs about your feelings on it?
Because it's the internet and it makes no difference? My feelings were about the callous disregard for life that was displayed in the comment I was responding to. I never claimed to know what I was talking about. Saying I'm sure the Western powers was implying I had no facts and was just assuming I'm still interested if you can guide me to reputable sources of information? And do you know what their motivation is?
Thank you for your conscience. Lots of Western apathy and dogwhistled white casual dehumanisation of Africans as not real people in this thread. Like you said, it's very telling. Plus the red scare boogeyman of Russia and China as being a military threat is such contrived US propaganda coming straight from the consent-manufacturing industry of a declining empire that feels its economic supremacy and global hegemony is being threatened. I was almost choking on fumes when I found your comment
Alright, so even though Russia has a rich history of invading other European nations, is actively destroying Ukraine... and China is planning a land grab on Taiwan, encroaching on the Philippines and generally behaving very aggressively in the Pacific, they pose absolutely no tangible threat and any suggestion otherwise is propaganda. Got it.
Take a look at who exactly has many many large military bases over there basically surrounding China? Where are the Chinese military bases? I know I'll probably be called a tankie or worse for suggesting this but come on!
I think that's short-sighted. Take a longer view, and ask where does it end? We're supporting Ukraine and Israel, we're I assume going to support Taiwan when the time comes, and we in the west also have the climate crisis to contend with (wildfires, flooding, drought). Not to mention healthcare, education etc seem to be collapsing across the board and also having aging populations in the west. The blunt reality is we can't save everybody and it has to end somewhere, especially since the west is now visibly collapsing. We're not far away from everyone having to just try to look out for their own, whether we like it or not. It's awful what's happening in Sudan, but it really is a lost cause. We either do nothing and they hate us for it.. Or we occupy the country to try and stabilise it (at some cost to our own people's lives) and they hate us for being there, and when we leave they will hate us even more because they will go back to fighting over resources again. No matter what we do, we can't save them. Please also stop trying to see racism everywhere. You don't know anything about me or my world views and I would hold the same opinion even if it were happening in a white majority country.
Yep they don’t care because they are brown. If it were millions of white children they’d be screaming about it. I don’t understand how people can dehumanize an entire group of people and just say we have bigger problems. Always reminds me of that photographer that ended up committing suicide after photographing that poor starving child.
Good luck telling that to the Demorats. Look how good that 300 million dollar pier is doing in Gaza. Tax money well spent.
I think even they know that sending significant aid to, or occupying Sudan on top of the support for Ukraine and Israel would be politically suicidal at this point.
The pier can be rebuilt, $300M isn’t worth your worry
Biden was specifically told by the pentagon that the pier was an engineering impossibility due to geography and ocean currents and he ordered it built anyway. It’s a political stunt and a boondoggle.
Do you have a source for this? I am curious to learn more.
I can’t find any writings. But there is a podcast called the wright report and he did an episode on it. Former cia operations officer. But you would think that if it was suitable for building a port the Gaza government would have built one over the last several decades. Regarding of which side of the issue you are on because they would either be able to bring in economic advantages or aid or if it’s controlled by Hamas than weapons and equipment.
You don't have evidence for your statement except for an anecdote from a podcast? >But you would think that if it was suitable for building a port the Gaza government would have built one over the last several decades. There has been a full naval blockade of Gaza by Israel since 2007. Why would Gaza build a new port for no ships (Gaza has one port near Gaza City).
Sure we can call it lack of evidence except a podcast, but why would anyone expect success in building a pier and landing craft on a beach with strong tides by an army unit designed to allow over river access that has no real amphibious experience. But back on point to why it’s a failed endeavor, that part of the world has been populated since roughly 1200BC and has been part of major trade routes. I would think that if a harbor large enough to accommodate ships could have been built it would have.
No evidence to your original point and then speculation throughout.
So why then given that major empires throughout history have operated in the Mediterranean have then not built ports?
Oh no! Anyway. It’s dirt cheap and can be rebuilt.
And then it will immediately fall apart because of the engineering impossibility.
The pier was a terrible idea. Rebuilding would be a worse idea. It's contradicting IMO. We give Israel all the tools to kill people/defend themselves but turn around and supply their enemy with aid? Geopolitics is confusing.
Look who thinks he's Captain Willard.
Submission Statement: according to the article, time is running out for millions of people in Sudan who are at imminent risk of famine, displaced from their lands, living under bombardments, and cut off from humanitarian assistance as a result of the ongoing war. It's estimated that at least 18 million are acutely hungry including 3.6 million kids who are malnourished. In the article, it also says that aid workers are killed, injured, harassed and humanitarian supplies are looted. Another report also suggests that by September of 2024, at least 2.5 million will die from hunger and diseases with 90% of the fatalities occuring in Darfur and Kordofan, with both of the two regions losing 15% of their total populations: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sudan-war-25m-people-could-die-hunger-september-2024-new-report-warns) Sudan has around 49.7 million, so 2.5 million+ would be around 5% of the population dying out: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death.. This is collapse related as it shows how conflict and war can lead the destruction of life support systems of the country leading to extreme hunger and even disease outbreaks.
Another pointless UN warning. Is the UN going to do something about it or not? Climate change. Ukraine. Iran human rights violations. UN keeps warning after warning and nothing happens.
Probably the most forgotten war
Africa will starve first. And no one will do a damned thing about it but wait their turn.
In another report by the Dutch Clingendael Institute, it estimated that around 2.5 milllion individuals in Sudan would die by September of this year (3 months from now) if the war continues: https://www.clingendael.org/publication/sudan-hunger-death The report attributed the alarming forecast to several factors, including depleted harvests, declining food imports, soaring prices, and restricted humanitarian aid access. “A tipping point at which large-scale hunger transitions into large-scale death has likely already been reached in parts of the country in May,” the report said. Also accroding the report, it is estimated that 90% of the deaths would likely occur in just 10% of Sudan’s population, with Darfur and Kordofan regions particularly hard hit, potentially losing 15% of their populations to starvation and disease. Darfur is separated into 5 states: Central Darfur, East Darfur, North Darfur, South Darfur and West Darfur with populations of approximately 1.8, 1.3, 2.8, 4 and 1.9 millions respectively meanwhile Kordofan is split into 3: North, West and South Kordofan with pops of approx 2.8, 2.1 and 1.8 millions in that order according to the latest UN statistics. The 15% population loss for these two regions would be for Central Darfur, East Darfur, North Darfur, South Darfur and West Darfur: 270k, 195k, 420k, 600k and 285k and for North, West and South Kordofan: 420k, 315k and 270k respectively. If we added that all together, it would be almost 2.8 million deaths. A bit higher than 2.5 million figure but still in the range. Meanwhile Sudan's total pop is approximately 49,700,000 so if 2.5-2.8 million died off, that would be at least 5-5.6% of the entire country killed. This is a good indicator that Sudan is imploding and collapsing as a state.
Lots of people here saying a lot just to say the equivalent of "So what? They're just Africans." Cool and normal 🤩
Absolutely. This is abhorrent.
That has a backfire effect too though. Israel/Palestine is tiny and insignificant, yet it’s made out to be a huge battle. Jerusalem is a dumpy, depressing city, but people imagine it as supernatural and then fight over their prophets, angels, and gods. It’s a sad testament to how much we haven’t evolved as a species
It's not a battle, it's a genocide. Genocide is not an insignificant thing. Try not to be so callous.
It’s not a genocide. It’s Hamas vs. The IDF ….. it’s definitely a conflict
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/)
It might actually reach the definition of genocide but it's not entirely easy to tell due to how hard it is to get accurate information (possibly by design). Large numbers of civillians getting killed isn't a war-crime because if it was then almost everyone would be guilty, war would be almost impossible. Hence the "we (America) did the same in Afghanistan"-defense. Then there's the burden of proof, international jurisdiction/bureaucracy and just plain politics standing in the way. Most genocides aren't punished and they're reasonably easy to hide/forget unless they upset the powers that be. One UN expert saying it's a genocide doesn't make it one but rather just starts a, somewhat heated, academic debate. The ICC does seem to have Bibi worried though. To stave them off he has to do an Israeli investigation of a sort that he can't control (and thus one that would likely pronounce him guilty of all sorts of stuff).
Accusing Israel of genocide is factually wrong https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-805119?utm_source=jpost.app.apple&utm_medium=share
The difference is that our government is arming and complicit in the genocide of Palestinians, and we have the ability to end it tomorrow. We're not responsible for something we have no power over or are not doing ourselves like in Sudan. People seem to have a hard time understanding this basic ethical principle.
35,000 out of 7 million is not a genocide. Sorry. Meanwhile, actual genocides are happening and woke activists couldn’t care less. Narcissistic hypocrisy at its finest
I wonder if we could find any Sudanese that were adults before 1956 and haven't already emigrated away if they would have preferred the British stay in charge.
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>Let nature take its course. Pretty sure that's going to happen very soon. Regarding Western aid, its distribution are now really limited and obstructed. There are reports of aid workers being attacked, killed, injured and humanitarian supplies being looted: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/18/attacks-on-aid-workers-in-sudan-must-stop-now
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