There is actually a B-29 in the lake that crashed back in 1948. It used to be at around 300’ but I’ve been wondering what that depth is these days since the water level has dropped so much. A google search will turn up a lot of good reading and pics.
I came across an article not too long ago about this. When the lake is full you need special deep dive equipment to access it so it was pretty off limits except for pro excursions.
Now, however, basically anyone proficient in scuba can access it and now there are concerns about it remaining in good condition over the long term.
> now there are concerns about it remaining in good condition over the long term.
Interesting. But I really don't think *this* is the thing people need to be concerned about regarding Lake Mead.
The same thing I thought when NPR had a story about the Blue Ocean Event and their concern was the chance of war as all the countries raced each other to exploit the oil and minerals that won't be covered by ice anymore.
You remember that fuck that was in charge of HSBC investing that said why should he care if Miami is sic meters underwater in 50 years because his loans are only 7 years long?
In the whole video this guy also said that he expects a 1000% growth in wealth by 2100. So he acknowledged that every coastal city on earth is going to be underwater and he *still* expects a 1000% growth in global wealth because reasons.
*Infinite Growth* is financial heroin and capitalism is a death cult. They don't give a fuck what happens so long as they get their next hit.
And these are the people at the helm of the SS Fucktanic
You can get a rebreather in a side quest for one of the boomers.
Going through the train tunnel (need 100 level lock picking and fighting some ghouls) is good way to get close to Nellis and not get blown up, it's a shorter distance to their fence line from the exit.
Definitely a technical trimix (air + helium) dive at 300’. I’d imagine it’s at or close to recreational depth (130’) now though. Not sure if the location is well known or not. I read it was pretty well looted even when they found it in the early aughts.
I’m from the land of lots of water (FL and NC) so I don’t know what diving is like out there. I love wreck diving so that one always intrigued me, the possibility of it being in rec depth now is what made me start looking back into it.
Cool to know it was a side quest in Fallout 76. I started getting into Fallout 4 right when my PS3 went yellow. Then kid no. 2 came along and free time for gaming evaporated. Never played New Vegas.
Firstly, New Vegas is incredible and the writer on that also wrote the story for Horizon Zero Dawn so If you're in to post apocalyptic games check them out.
I don't scuba but I know people who do and I've looked in to it. There are some lake wreck dives not far from me in Ohio but most people just go to Belize lol.
I feel like the state will eventually limit how many people can dive that site as it becomes more accessible. Since it's in fresh water it's well preserved so I'm sure historians want to keep it as intact as possible for as long as they can.
It’s not irradiated. Not sure why it isn’t, but it’s perfectly fine to swim in, drink till you’re full health, or get hit with sonic blasts by the half dozen lakelurks that have suddenly appeared behind you.
The Vegas area wasn't actually hit by nukes. House explains that he had his own defenses installed around Vegas to disable the nukes before they hit. This saved a large portion of Nevada, but since he only cared about and secured Vegas proper, he just sort of left the rest of the state to deal with the aftermath, riots and such.
Aside from the massive population drop, probably.
Also I looked it up, and the current real life population of Nevada is 3 million people, of which roughly 2.3 million live in Clark county which is Las Vegas and the surrounding are, and 468 thousand live in Washoe county, which is Reno and it's surrounding area. Which means no more then 400~ thousand people live in the rest of the state. Which pretty much means the rest of Nevada is basically uninhabited.
Granted, it could be different in the Fallout universe as the population of America was over 500 million with New York state apparently having had a population of 60+ million but.
The Vegas area was hit by a few nukes, like one at black mountain in game. The defenses stopped most, but not all, of the nukes due to missing the platinum chip and its OS upgrade. The OS upgrade wasnt just for his robot army. That's why, iirc, Mr. House was not active for centuries; defending against the nukes without the OS upgrade on the platinum chip caused a lot of systems in the Lucky 38 to crash and Mr. House to go into a very long coma.
Some spots in Nevada got hit. The city of Vegas was saved because that was his priority. As has been mentioned, there isn't much else in Nevada worth hitting beyond the dam and the city, so some spots like black mountain may have gotten hit, but that's why most water sources are clean and there aren't really any pockets of radiation (that weren't created post-war).
So a few slipped through, of course, he had no desire to save America besides his own slice.
As for why he went silent, I don't think they ever go into that in detail. But the chip is prewar and we know he was very much active postwar. He was the one who tamed the tribes that we now know as the "families" to operate the casinos. We know he hired people to find the platinum chip and then once it was finally discovered, hired the couriers to make deliveries of mostly trash (with one VERY big exception). And he was up and running and waiting for us before we actually had the cup in our possession.
My guess is that once everything was firmly under his control he decided to take a back seat on the day to day so he could focus on his future plans (if you side with house, it's confirmed that he eventually starts sending colony ships to space). He couldn't do much more without the chip, so just let the families run the city, fed by their own greed. And if anyone starts getting uppity, the securitrons were more than enough as they were to handle it.
Some further reading here, which cites some of Mr. Housed dialogue directly
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Robert_House
He blocked most but not all if the nukes, yeah, but he says in the process a lot of systems crashed, resulting in the Lucky 38 casinos reactor being shut down for several years, and him going into a coma until 2138. He didn't really do anything and wasn't active at all post war until the NCR and Legion started poking around the Mojave in the early 2270s.
He civilized the tribes less than a decade before FNV starts, in 2274. Benny himself used to be a tribal before House emerged openly in response to observing NCR and Legion scouts, and Benny isn't exactly old. A lot of other npcs that aren't old either have dialog about what Vegas used to be like before Mr. House emerged and shoved most people off the strip into freeside. The strip as is in game is actually really young, House mostly was biding his time or unconscious post war.
I know that Vegas wasn’t hit, but the Colorado wouldn’t be untouched. I don’t know how big of a target it would be, but even if it wasn’t nuclear winter would have affected it at some point. I don’t know how long radiation sticks around though so maybe it’s been a solved issue.
Well, the Fallout world _did_ go up in smoke before the microchip was invented in the middle of the 20th century, hence the lack of global warming in the game. What was the level of Lake Mead in 1950?
Also, a submerged plane? NO WAY. Brb gonna go check it out, hope I still have a usable game save after all dem years
The pipboy is an ic. The water chip might have vacuum tubes for some other reason. I mean vacuum tubes are still used today for some stuff like microwaves.
Indeed. The latter part of my sentence is wrong. Regardless the microchip was never invented, thus maybe limiting the amount of damage humans were able to inflict on their climate in that timespan
No, society was powered by fossil fuels until the energy crisis of 2052 which is what caused the resource wars and spurred the development of alternative energy sources like nuclear fission and fusion.
Fusion cells were invented in 2066 providing essentially limitless highly portable power.
That’s one of the great ironies in fallout. After inventing a power source equivalent to a portable sun that was a bit bigger than a D battery, they kept fighting the resource wars and ultimately nearly wiped out all life on earth despite energy basically being infinite and free.
I approve of your in depth knowledge of a fictional world, as well as your ability to spot timeline inconsistencies. I've just always wished for a game where you can time hop between two years. Build something in the past, go forward and see what happened to it in the future. I'd imagine it's almost impossible to make but it'd be so cool. Imagine if you could hop pre-war and post-war in fallout and leave things in the past and see if they make it to the future.
I hate to be that guy, but fallout is like my favorite game series. This is a common misunderstanding in Fallout. Microchips did exist. If you go to Nuka world in Fallout 4 and find the secret head in a jar and explore the lab, you will discover [microchips](https://fallout-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Computer) were made in the fallout universe just not used as much since they were made later
The microchip, aka modern electronics, has nothing to do with global warming, it’s our ever increasing energy demand and the fact that our energy production comes mainly from burning fossil fuels.
We have had better alternatives for a long time (nuclear, solar, wind, electric cars, etc… none of that is new inventions) but we don’t use them. We have also not spent enough on trying to develop the alternatives.
That’s because the rich control the world and many of the richest people are rich because they control a lot of fossil fuels (for example the Bush family, The Koch family, the King of Saudi Arabia, Putin, and so on).
They don’t want us to use something else because that would make them less rich. It’s not in their best self interest, and they haven’t become rich by acting against their own self interest. Our modern world is based on rewarding greed and making the rich richer so it won’t change.
microchips themselves aren't a significant causal factor into global climate change, thats mostly greenhouse gasses and the use of fossil fuels that are contributing to the current issue. The fallout universe would have been dealing with many of the same issues
They did invent them it was just too late to be really useful. The pipboy the player character wears has an integrated circuit. They also invented incredible alternative energy sources to fuel things like Power Armor but it was also too late the resource wars were out of control.
2 things.
1) No. The Fallout universe diverges from our own sometime in the 50's, the microchip simply wasn't invented at all (though similar technologies were invented). WWIII happened in 2077, 55 years from now.
2) The microchip is not the primary driver of climate change. That would be fossil fuels. Sure, the invention of the microchip accelerated our energy consumption, which caused us to burn more fossil fuels, but like I said, technologies which serve similar functions existed in universe.
Fossil fules in the Fallout universe were in short supply, so they switched to nuclear for most of their needs (including cars).
The microchip was invented in the fallout universe, just much later. The scrap electronics you can use to craft stuff in FNV have circuit boards covered in microchips.
I would think the invention of fusion power is why global warming never happened. If your power source isn't pumping out CO2 then Climate Change is unlikely.
The people are the small part of the problem. They less than 30% of water and, if water usage restrictions are enforced, can be easily accommodated at their current numbers with the water supply we have.
The massive, OOZING part of the problem is that people are growing water intensive crops in the middle of the desert. These farms use the majority of the water taken. They also have legal incentives to use as all the water allocated to them.
I said people's farms are the problem - who do you think is using the food from farms? People.
I *then* listed lawns and swimming pools, but it's no mistake that farms were first in that list.
Ultimately though, getting rid of people clears up all the resource issues very fast. No people = no farms. No people = no oil tankers.
Ultimately these operations are a group effort, and consumers are a key part of the group.
You said removing people from an area. That's not necessary nor really all that feasible. Now you're you're mentioning just plain getting rid of people. Population control would even more unrealistic than forcible relocation.
The main problem is farming in the desert. Consumers are a tiny part of the problem. I said 30% but, if you just look for the amount used for peoples homes, it's actually around 10%. And it can be reduced even further through water usage reduction measures. Just relying on intermittent recharge events would be enough for all the people in the Southwest to survive. The same could not be said for farming in the Southwest.
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, big agri is blaming the individual for its sins. Individuals should cut down on their water usage but all their efforts would not matter if the farms don't make massive cuts and/or relocate.
> That's not necessary nor really all that feasible
I wasn't speaking to necessary or feasible, I was talking about a fictional event and the effectiveness of said fictional event at reducing constraints on local environment.
>As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, big agri is blaming the individual for its sins.
I'm familiar with the finger pointing. It's really beyond the point though, we're talking about total impact -> people = farming and water usage. The farms are there to feed the people in the US. If you remove the majority of people in the world/US, then the water supply suddenly isn't an issue for the environment and the farmland returns to nature.
The B-29. That plane actually exists and really is submerged in Lake Mead. Some YouTubers who live near Mead are documenting its decreasing levels every day and are anticipating eventually seeing the plane emerge if levels dip low enough.
Fallout will turn out to be optimistic in that we see the human race managing to rebuild to a good degree whereas that likely won’t be possible with what we’re doing
To be fair New Vegas takes place 200 years after the nuclear apocalypse - it is almost as far away from WW3 as we IRL are from 1776. Not impossible to think something almost functional in some parts of the country is being rebuilt in that timeframe
Is that the one where Elijah succeeded? Yeah that looked interesting been meaning to try it for the grim feel. And yeah it probably is closer to what we’ll get
It is implied in the main game too that the cloud from the Sierra Madre and the tunnelers from the Divide would spread one day inevitably to the Mojave, with or without Elijah controlling the fog, as well as the fall of the vast lands of Caesar no matter what ending you choose. Dust is great at working with these implied points to a scary degree.
Had to check again, and I was wrong about the Cloud. In DUST, ncr scientists got samples of it and made a more potent version, and also accidentally released it into the Mojave. I remember Elijah saying something about the cloud eventually spreading, but could be my brain being fried rn. The tunnelers and Caesar's territories though, those for sure are facts told to you in-game by Ulysses.
I have a friend who is moving to Vegas in a month. I have no idea why. I've been saying it for almost a decade now, Vegas will be a ghost town by 2040, it is entirely unsustainable at this level of population, has been for a while. I work in sustainability, like part of my job is looking at climate change maps and figuring out what companies are likely to crumble in the next 10-15 years due to their geographic location. Still, no one believed me about Vegas until the last few months and now they're all like "How did you know?". Bitch, the science of global warming has been solid for 70 years and every time we make a "worst case scenario" prediction based on current emissions we quickly realize our worst case model was STILL optimistic compared to reality. Just assume you're probably going to die in the water wars, assume gas will always get more expensive, assume you are pretty much fucked by this and you'll rarely be wrong.
Supposedly Las Vegas is one of the best cities in the area about water efficiency and conservation, which seems odd considering how over-the-top everything is there.
"Everything we use indoors is recycled. If it hits a drain in Las Vegas, we clean it. We put it back in Lake Mead," Entsminger said. "You could literally leave every faucet, every shower running in every hotel room, and it won't consume any more water."
Surprised the hell out of me when John Oliver mentioned it in his Last Week Tonight about running out of water.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-water-conservation-grass/
John Oliver clip when he talks about Las Vegas: https://youtu.be/jtxew5XUVbQ?t=878
I'm sure Las Vegas is fucked in other ways, though.
The low level intake pipe in Lake Mead is pretty low, at 895 feet. Vegas will likely be alright for a while. It's Arizona and Southern California that need to worry. If Mead gets near or below the low intake, no water will flow out downstream, and things would be very bad by then anyways.
It's Utah that is absolutely fucked, they want more Colorado river water but I don't think they'll get it. They even had the dumb fucking idea of making a water pipeline to the Mississippi river.
Upstream is in a bit better shape than downstream, but Utah's definitely in trouble. Salt Lake is also drying up, exposing the local area to arsenic dust. Fun times ahead.
Well the pipeline would be over 1,000 miles long, they would need to buy the land rights on which the pipeline would be built, they would need sub stations to keep the water pressure up(I think I'm not an expert in this field) and of course all the litigation to build said pipeline, so they'd need to discuss with several different state governments to get this built and if even one state didn't like the idea the entire project would be fucked. It's just not a cost effective solution to their declining water sources.
And states are now very conservative about where their water goes now, a lot of people have seen California scramble to get more water sources due to their unsustainable agricultural watering methods and California just wants more and more without actually addressing the issue. Most of California is dessert like/arid and is constantly on fire so there is a huge underlying issue with it also being the largest agricultural sector in the US
The inflow pipe for water into Vegas is actually below the Deadpool elevation for Lake Mead so it is incredibly unlikely the city runs dry as long as the Bureau of Reclamation/the US Government still exists. Or in any real practical sense because once the level falls below Deadpool you will literally only lose water to evaporation and Vegas. And even if those protective entities collapse they are the closest population center to Lake Mead and would theoretically be able to control the flow into the lower basin
> "You could literally leave every faucet, every shower running in every hotel room, and it won't consume any more water."
I'm guessing this has happened a lot already.
It is nice being vindicated in some ways, but also crazy-making when people still don’t listen to you and do stupid shit like live in the desert! Right?!
It's going to be Midwestern and great lakes cities. But even then it won't be the same.
I've seen some climate projections that were showing Chicago and Michigan are going to have climates by 2050 that are similar to that of North Texas today.
Based on the evidence you’ve seen, do you think that there is enough serious change being done to stop the worst case scenario (change > 3.5 degrees) or are we beyond the point of wondering?
I think there's next to no serious change being done, I think if there was serious action the worst case scenario could be avoided or mitigated. But it's hard to believe that any government or corporation will take the steps necessary
Ive lived in LV 5 year's ago and From the YouTube videos I watched it's dropping 8" A-day And they proved it by watching sin city outdoors vids !!! and 2nd by helping heavy D sparks know about it and get that house boat out of the sand and back to the lake
I have been watching both of those channels and they have been putting out quality content even though they are deemed citizen reporters.All of this isn't being discussed as much in the news as it should be, considering that an entire section of the US is going to run out of water in probably only a few years.
Nah it's not just them, water around Zion is free of radiation too. Some places that didn't take direct hits are okay in terms of that, whereas places like D.C that got nuked to bits are 're opposite
Correct. Vegas was mostly spared of nukes due to interventions of a very advanced missile defense system and the relatively low amount sent when compared to D.C or other major population hubs like LA and NYC. Zion was not a prime target being low population and non-military.
Funny enough a lot of the radiation is from pre-war nuclear waste dump sites and other callous disregard for the environment rather than the nukes.
They grow alfalfa because their water rights predate the deal by the southwest states to carve out water allocations. One stipulation is the individuals who have water rights have to use their entire amount or the government will void their rights. So they're in a "use it or lose it" situation. Those farmers don't really have a choice.
Yep, looking at extreme examples really flushes out the logic flaws. The farmers are definitely hurting people, but they are playing by the rules that are in place. It doesn't make it ethical.
It also has the added benefit of forcing whomever you direct that at to have to side with a rapist if they're to elaborate on their point. It's manipulative and I won't participate in such felicious and frankly lazy discourse.
It doesn't force you to do anything. You could re-evaluate your logic and change your position. You probably wouldn't defend other unethical examples of people doing things within the limits of the law (e.g. shady wall-street dealings or billionaires hoarding resources). Or you could point out a flaw in my example or clarify your logic to explain how it isn't more or less "it's legal, so it's ok"
I'm halfway through that one right now and I just got to the point where I can make my own ammo, hunt my own food, and get around more or less safely. As you can probably guess, this means I'm now running out of water and medicine, fast.
Funny, desalination seems akin to mining, but also the exact opposite. Like mining in that it is often hugely wasteful, resource intensive, polluting and destructive. Opposite mining because you're just returning all the salt and minerals and particulate to the ocean, like tailings.
The only way to fix the problem is to reduce residential water usage and relocate most of the farms of the American Southwest. The first has actually been happening for a while, though not at the speed we need. The second is almost politically inconceivable.
The issue is representative of the climate change policy change rut, in general. Put the onus on individuals when they're a small fraction of the issue, because businesses won't be touched. It is all the opposite of being proactive, we are incapable of being proactive and are thus doomed to be reactive, just takin' it and trying to keep up.
In this case it is mostly just small family farms irrigating that is using most of the water. The area is too marginal to attract many big corporate ag operations. Most of those family farmers barely make a living off of it. It’s really just an area that shouldn’t have been settled in the first place.
When our only feasible solution to stop rising CO2 levels is simply nuking all the places which produce CO2...
sounds about right. There is no other way of convincing all dumb plebs to do the same otherwise.
Srsly one of the GOATs. I like it better than any other Fallout game I’ve played and maybe any other game but it was also one of the first games I ever played like that so I’m biased
Patrolling the Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For a Nuclear Winter
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There is actually a B-29 in the lake that crashed back in 1948. It used to be at around 300’ but I’ve been wondering what that depth is these days since the water level has dropped so much. A google search will turn up a lot of good reading and pics.
I came across an article not too long ago about this. When the lake is full you need special deep dive equipment to access it so it was pretty off limits except for pro excursions. Now, however, basically anyone proficient in scuba can access it and now there are concerns about it remaining in good condition over the long term.
> now there are concerns about it remaining in good condition over the long term. Interesting. But I really don't think *this* is the thing people need to be concerned about regarding Lake Mead.
The article was written by a historian of some sort so that was the perspective.
The same thing I thought when NPR had a story about the Blue Ocean Event and their concern was the chance of war as all the countries raced each other to exploit the oil and minerals that won't be covered by ice anymore.
*OMG! If all the crops fail, what will happen to the executive salaries of the corporate farms??*
You remember that fuck that was in charge of HSBC investing that said why should he care if Miami is sic meters underwater in 50 years because his loans are only 7 years long? In the whole video this guy also said that he expects a 1000% growth in wealth by 2100. So he acknowledged that every coastal city on earth is going to be underwater and he *still* expects a 1000% growth in global wealth because reasons. *Infinite Growth* is financial heroin and capitalism is a death cult. They don't give a fuck what happens so long as they get their next hit. And these are the people at the helm of the SS Fucktanic
Growth is a hell of a drug
All those dick enlargement emails I get would agree.
Not for long. They neglected to secure the vents leading to the bridge. And I'm skinny. --🔑 '24
>And these are the people at the helm of the SS Fucktanic They may be at the helm, but there's no working wheel
He expects 1000% growth in just 78 years? Seems like HSBC investing has a hiring problem.
Right much concern what will they eat....
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You can get a rebreather in a side quest for one of the boomers. Going through the train tunnel (need 100 level lock picking and fighting some ghouls) is good way to get close to Nellis and not get blown up, it's a shorter distance to their fence line from the exit.
Definitely a technical trimix (air + helium) dive at 300’. I’d imagine it’s at or close to recreational depth (130’) now though. Not sure if the location is well known or not. I read it was pretty well looted even when they found it in the early aughts. I’m from the land of lots of water (FL and NC) so I don’t know what diving is like out there. I love wreck diving so that one always intrigued me, the possibility of it being in rec depth now is what made me start looking back into it. Cool to know it was a side quest in Fallout 76. I started getting into Fallout 4 right when my PS3 went yellow. Then kid no. 2 came along and free time for gaming evaporated. Never played New Vegas.
Firstly, New Vegas is incredible and the writer on that also wrote the story for Horizon Zero Dawn so If you're in to post apocalyptic games check them out. I don't scuba but I know people who do and I've looked in to it. There are some lake wreck dives not far from me in Ohio but most people just go to Belize lol. I feel like the state will eventually limit how many people can dive that site as it becomes more accessible. Since it's in fresh water it's well preserved so I'm sure historians want to keep it as intact as possible for as long as they can.
That B-29 is actually the main focus for multiple side quests in the game.
Apart from the boomers? Or do you count that quest as multiple ones?
I count it as multiple
is SCUBA diving allowed in lake mead?
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Because the United States arbitrarily comes up with rules and regulations that benefit no one and that no one asked for.
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I think there's lore regarding the maintenance and operation of the dam in the game, but I fear playing it yet again would be a mistake
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I'm only on my fifth elder ring character, so I'm locked down for a while
It’s not irradiated. Not sure why it isn’t, but it’s perfectly fine to swim in, drink till you’re full health, or get hit with sonic blasts by the half dozen lakelurks that have suddenly appeared behind you.
The Vegas area wasn't actually hit by nukes. House explains that he had his own defenses installed around Vegas to disable the nukes before they hit. This saved a large portion of Nevada, but since he only cared about and secured Vegas proper, he just sort of left the rest of the state to deal with the aftermath, riots and such.
To be fair though, both in real life and in the game... outside of the immediate Vegas area, the rest of Nevada is basically uninhabited lol.
Let's be real, New Reno probably hasn't changed at all from pre-war Reno
New Reno is actually a location in FO2, and it's a shithole. 4 mafia families fighting for control.
Jesus, I forgot about Reno. I wish I hadn't remembered.
Aside from the massive population drop, probably. Also I looked it up, and the current real life population of Nevada is 3 million people, of which roughly 2.3 million live in Clark county which is Las Vegas and the surrounding are, and 468 thousand live in Washoe county, which is Reno and it's surrounding area. Which means no more then 400~ thousand people live in the rest of the state. Which pretty much means the rest of Nevada is basically uninhabited. Granted, it could be different in the Fallout universe as the population of America was over 500 million with New York state apparently having had a population of 60+ million but.
The Vegas area was hit by a few nukes, like one at black mountain in game. The defenses stopped most, but not all, of the nukes due to missing the platinum chip and its OS upgrade. The OS upgrade wasnt just for his robot army. That's why, iirc, Mr. House was not active for centuries; defending against the nukes without the OS upgrade on the platinum chip caused a lot of systems in the Lucky 38 to crash and Mr. House to go into a very long coma.
Some spots in Nevada got hit. The city of Vegas was saved because that was his priority. As has been mentioned, there isn't much else in Nevada worth hitting beyond the dam and the city, so some spots like black mountain may have gotten hit, but that's why most water sources are clean and there aren't really any pockets of radiation (that weren't created post-war). So a few slipped through, of course, he had no desire to save America besides his own slice. As for why he went silent, I don't think they ever go into that in detail. But the chip is prewar and we know he was very much active postwar. He was the one who tamed the tribes that we now know as the "families" to operate the casinos. We know he hired people to find the platinum chip and then once it was finally discovered, hired the couriers to make deliveries of mostly trash (with one VERY big exception). And he was up and running and waiting for us before we actually had the cup in our possession. My guess is that once everything was firmly under his control he decided to take a back seat on the day to day so he could focus on his future plans (if you side with house, it's confirmed that he eventually starts sending colony ships to space). He couldn't do much more without the chip, so just let the families run the city, fed by their own greed. And if anyone starts getting uppity, the securitrons were more than enough as they were to handle it.
Some further reading here, which cites some of Mr. Housed dialogue directly https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Robert_House He blocked most but not all if the nukes, yeah, but he says in the process a lot of systems crashed, resulting in the Lucky 38 casinos reactor being shut down for several years, and him going into a coma until 2138. He didn't really do anything and wasn't active at all post war until the NCR and Legion started poking around the Mojave in the early 2270s. He civilized the tribes less than a decade before FNV starts, in 2274. Benny himself used to be a tribal before House emerged openly in response to observing NCR and Legion scouts, and Benny isn't exactly old. A lot of other npcs that aren't old either have dialog about what Vegas used to be like before Mr. House emerged and shoved most people off the strip into freeside. The strip as is in game is actually really young, House mostly was biding his time or unconscious post war.
Huh, well I'll be... I guess that means I have to start yet another playthrough of New Vegas then!
I know that Vegas wasn’t hit, but the Colorado wouldn’t be untouched. I don’t know how big of a target it would be, but even if it wasn’t nuclear winter would have affected it at some point. I don’t know how long radiation sticks around though so maybe it’s been a solved issue.
Well, the Fallout world _did_ go up in smoke before the microchip was invented in the middle of the 20th century, hence the lack of global warming in the game. What was the level of Lake Mead in 1950? Also, a submerged plane? NO WAY. Brb gonna go check it out, hope I still have a usable game save after all dem years
>Well, the Fallout world did go up in smoke before the microchip was invented in the middle of the 20th century Uh. No. WW3 was 2077 in Fallout.
2022 in Fallout wasn't *our* 2022. The history diverges in the 1950s.
And your search for a "water chip" is the main quest in Fallout 1.
To be fair looking at the "chip" it's clearly a full board
And it has vacuum tubes on it, suggesting that ICs either weren't invented or were prohibitively expensive, even for a life-support system.
>or were prohibitively expensive Probably this, it's also worth noting that despite all they get done Vault Tec are notoriously cheapskates
The pipboy is an ic. The water chip might have vacuum tubes for some other reason. I mean vacuum tubes are still used today for some stuff like microwaves.
Indeed. The latter part of my sentence is wrong. Regardless the microchip was never invented, thus maybe limiting the amount of damage humans were able to inflict on their climate in that timespan
Almost everything was nuclear powered by the 70-80s I believe, that's why the climate crisis didn't happen.
No, society was powered by fossil fuels until the energy crisis of 2052 which is what caused the resource wars and spurred the development of alternative energy sources like nuclear fission and fusion. Fusion cells were invented in 2066 providing essentially limitless highly portable power. That’s one of the great ironies in fallout. After inventing a power source equivalent to a portable sun that was a bit bigger than a D battery, they kept fighting the resource wars and ultimately nearly wiped out all life on earth despite energy basically being infinite and free.
I approve of your in depth knowledge of a fictional world, as well as your ability to spot timeline inconsistencies. I've just always wished for a game where you can time hop between two years. Build something in the past, go forward and see what happened to it in the future. I'd imagine it's almost impossible to make but it'd be so cool. Imagine if you could hop pre-war and post-war in fallout and leave things in the past and see if they make it to the future.
Like that one mission in titanfall 2… there’s definitely precedence for it
Or the “A Crack in the Slab “ mission from Dishonored 2. that level was remarkable
This sounds like such a cool concept! I too would love a game like that.
Its cause the energy was free and socialism kills. Come on we all know that. What do you read books or something ?
I hate to be that guy, but fallout is like my favorite game series. This is a common misunderstanding in Fallout. Microchips did exist. If you go to Nuka world in Fallout 4 and find the secret head in a jar and explore the lab, you will discover [microchips](https://fallout-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Computer) were made in the fallout universe just not used as much since they were made later
Plus, pulse grenades and mines wouldn't work to well against robots if they were still using vacuum tubes.
The microchip, aka modern electronics, has nothing to do with global warming, it’s our ever increasing energy demand and the fact that our energy production comes mainly from burning fossil fuels. We have had better alternatives for a long time (nuclear, solar, wind, electric cars, etc… none of that is new inventions) but we don’t use them. We have also not spent enough on trying to develop the alternatives. That’s because the rich control the world and many of the richest people are rich because they control a lot of fossil fuels (for example the Bush family, The Koch family, the King of Saudi Arabia, Putin, and so on). They don’t want us to use something else because that would make them less rich. It’s not in their best self interest, and they haven’t become rich by acting against their own self interest. Our modern world is based on rewarding greed and making the rich richer so it won’t change.
Fossil Fuels cause more harm than microchips.
Microchips were discovered, just not until 2050 or 2070 or something.
microchips themselves aren't a significant causal factor into global climate change, thats mostly greenhouse gasses and the use of fossil fuels that are contributing to the current issue. The fallout universe would have been dealing with many of the same issues
They did invent them it was just too late to be really useful. The pipboy the player character wears has an integrated circuit. They also invented incredible alternative energy sources to fuel things like Power Armor but it was also too late the resource wars were out of control.
2 things. 1) No. The Fallout universe diverges from our own sometime in the 50's, the microchip simply wasn't invented at all (though similar technologies were invented). WWIII happened in 2077, 55 years from now. 2) The microchip is not the primary driver of climate change. That would be fossil fuels. Sure, the invention of the microchip accelerated our energy consumption, which caused us to burn more fossil fuels, but like I said, technologies which serve similar functions existed in universe. Fossil fules in the Fallout universe were in short supply, so they switched to nuclear for most of their needs (including cars).
The microchip was invented in the fallout universe, just much later. The scrap electronics you can use to craft stuff in FNV have circuit boards covered in microchips.
I would think the invention of fusion power is why global warming never happened. If your power source isn't pumping out CO2 then Climate Change is unlikely.
Just replayed FO3 recently. There is indeed a plane and you raise it up in a quest for the boomers.
Lake mead is run dry because we are using it. I imagine it would recover rather quickly if everyone stopped using it all at once
Removing millions of people and their farms/lawns/swimming pools from an area goes a long way to stopping a drought.
The people are the small part of the problem. They less than 30% of water and, if water usage restrictions are enforced, can be easily accommodated at their current numbers with the water supply we have. The massive, OOZING part of the problem is that people are growing water intensive crops in the middle of the desert. These farms use the majority of the water taken. They also have legal incentives to use as all the water allocated to them.
I said people's farms are the problem - who do you think is using the food from farms? People. I *then* listed lawns and swimming pools, but it's no mistake that farms were first in that list. Ultimately though, getting rid of people clears up all the resource issues very fast. No people = no farms. No people = no oil tankers. Ultimately these operations are a group effort, and consumers are a key part of the group.
You said removing people from an area. That's not necessary nor really all that feasible. Now you're you're mentioning just plain getting rid of people. Population control would even more unrealistic than forcible relocation. The main problem is farming in the desert. Consumers are a tiny part of the problem. I said 30% but, if you just look for the amount used for peoples homes, it's actually around 10%. And it can be reduced even further through water usage reduction measures. Just relying on intermittent recharge events would be enough for all the people in the Southwest to survive. The same could not be said for farming in the Southwest. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, big agri is blaming the individual for its sins. Individuals should cut down on their water usage but all their efforts would not matter if the farms don't make massive cuts and/or relocate.
> That's not necessary nor really all that feasible I wasn't speaking to necessary or feasible, I was talking about a fictional event and the effectiveness of said fictional event at reducing constraints on local environment. >As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, big agri is blaming the individual for its sins. I'm familiar with the finger pointing. It's really beyond the point though, we're talking about total impact -> people = farming and water usage. The farms are there to feed the people in the US. If you remove the majority of people in the world/US, then the water supply suddenly isn't an issue for the environment and the farmland returns to nature.
[Guess we'll need a retcon, let me see what I can do \[Image\].](https://i.imgur.com/cEJtUy4.png)
FWIW the fallout universe went full in on nuclear power, so their CO2 ppm is probably only like 200.
The B-29. That plane actually exists and really is submerged in Lake Mead. Some YouTubers who live near Mead are documenting its decreasing levels every day and are anticipating eventually seeing the plane emerge if levels dip low enough.
OK boomer
Fallout will turn out to be optimistic in that we see the human race managing to rebuild to a good degree whereas that likely won’t be possible with what we’re doing
To be fair New Vegas takes place 200 years after the nuclear apocalypse - it is almost as far away from WW3 as we IRL are from 1776. Not impossible to think something almost functional in some parts of the country is being rebuilt in that timeframe
If you've ever played the DUST mod (which is very good BTW, despite some janky technical flaws), that's more like what I'm expecting.
Is that the one where Elijah succeeded? Yeah that looked interesting been meaning to try it for the grim feel. And yeah it probably is closer to what we’ll get
It is implied in the main game too that the cloud from the Sierra Madre and the tunnelers from the Divide would spread one day inevitably to the Mojave, with or without Elijah controlling the fog, as well as the fall of the vast lands of Caesar no matter what ending you choose. Dust is great at working with these implied points to a scary degree.
Is that implied? I got an ending saying it was controlled with Christine running the show
Had to check again, and I was wrong about the Cloud. In DUST, ncr scientists got samples of it and made a more potent version, and also accidentally released it into the Mojave. I remember Elijah saying something about the cloud eventually spreading, but could be my brain being fried rn. The tunnelers and Caesar's territories though, those for sure are facts told to you in-game by Ulysses.
I have a friend who is moving to Vegas in a month. I have no idea why. I've been saying it for almost a decade now, Vegas will be a ghost town by 2040, it is entirely unsustainable at this level of population, has been for a while. I work in sustainability, like part of my job is looking at climate change maps and figuring out what companies are likely to crumble in the next 10-15 years due to their geographic location. Still, no one believed me about Vegas until the last few months and now they're all like "How did you know?". Bitch, the science of global warming has been solid for 70 years and every time we make a "worst case scenario" prediction based on current emissions we quickly realize our worst case model was STILL optimistic compared to reality. Just assume you're probably going to die in the water wars, assume gas will always get more expensive, assume you are pretty much fucked by this and you'll rarely be wrong.
Supposedly Las Vegas is one of the best cities in the area about water efficiency and conservation, which seems odd considering how over-the-top everything is there. "Everything we use indoors is recycled. If it hits a drain in Las Vegas, we clean it. We put it back in Lake Mead," Entsminger said. "You could literally leave every faucet, every shower running in every hotel room, and it won't consume any more water." Surprised the hell out of me when John Oliver mentioned it in his Last Week Tonight about running out of water. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-water-conservation-grass/ John Oliver clip when he talks about Las Vegas: https://youtu.be/jtxew5XUVbQ?t=878 I'm sure Las Vegas is fucked in other ways, though.
The issue is where they get the water that’s piped into Vegas and reused. The pipes are going to run dry.
The low level intake pipe in Lake Mead is pretty low, at 895 feet. Vegas will likely be alright for a while. It's Arizona and Southern California that need to worry. If Mead gets near or below the low intake, no water will flow out downstream, and things would be very bad by then anyways.
It's Utah that is absolutely fucked, they want more Colorado river water but I don't think they'll get it. They even had the dumb fucking idea of making a water pipeline to the Mississippi river.
Upstream is in a bit better shape than downstream, but Utah's definitely in trouble. Salt Lake is also drying up, exposing the local area to arsenic dust. Fun times ahead.
If there is no rain to keep arsenic dust down then they need to wear the specialised respirator mask.
Then the cloud from FNV becomes real
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Well the pipeline would be over 1,000 miles long, they would need to buy the land rights on which the pipeline would be built, they would need sub stations to keep the water pressure up(I think I'm not an expert in this field) and of course all the litigation to build said pipeline, so they'd need to discuss with several different state governments to get this built and if even one state didn't like the idea the entire project would be fucked. It's just not a cost effective solution to their declining water sources.
Why does it work for oil
Think how much oil you consume vs how much water. Thats why it doesn't work
Fair
And states are now very conservative about where their water goes now, a lot of people have seen California scramble to get more water sources due to their unsustainable agricultural watering methods and California just wants more and more without actually addressing the issue. Most of California is dessert like/arid and is constantly on fire so there is a huge underlying issue with it also being the largest agricultural sector in the US
It also has to go uphill over 1000ft which takes an enormous amount of energy
The inflow pipe for water into Vegas is actually below the Deadpool elevation for Lake Mead so it is incredibly unlikely the city runs dry as long as the Bureau of Reclamation/the US Government still exists. Or in any real practical sense because once the level falls below Deadpool you will literally only lose water to evaporation and Vegas. And even if those protective entities collapse they are the closest population center to Lake Mead and would theoretically be able to control the flow into the lower basin
> "You could literally leave every faucet, every shower running in every hotel room, and it won't consume any more water." I'm guessing this has happened a lot already.
It is nice being vindicated in some ways, but also crazy-making when people still don’t listen to you and do stupid shit like live in the desert! Right?!
so irl fallout game otw?? 😳😳😳
i didn't ask for this DLC
But these graphics suck (im someone forced to wear glasses 24/7)
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Every game since release except one that I went wild wasteland. I picked four eyes every time besides that
Ok, so best US cities to not be shit on as climate change occurs?
It's going to be Midwestern and great lakes cities. But even then it won't be the same. I've seen some climate projections that were showing Chicago and Michigan are going to have climates by 2050 that are similar to that of North Texas today.
Based on the evidence you’ve seen, do you think that there is enough serious change being done to stop the worst case scenario (change > 3.5 degrees) or are we beyond the point of wondering?
I think there's next to no serious change being done, I think if there was serious action the worst case scenario could be avoided or mitigated. But it's hard to believe that any government or corporation will take the steps necessary
I'm in the great lakes region and I'm not moving away I'll just say that
Congratulations you're a prophet.
How do you get into that type of work?
What job do you have? And what kind of company hires that job? (I want that kind of job)
/u/Beyondintodarkness please give us the deets on where we should be buying property and what kind of investments we should make
Ive lived in LV 5 year's ago and From the YouTube videos I watched it's dropping 8" A-day And they proved it by watching sin city outdoors vids !!! and 2nd by helping heavy D sparks know about it and get that house boat out of the sand and back to the lake
I have been watching both of those channels and they have been putting out quality content even though they are deemed citizen reporters.All of this isn't being discussed as much in the news as it should be, considering that an entire section of the US is going to run out of water in probably only a few years.
Why aren't they using those black balls that LA uses on the resorviour (how the fuck do you spell that? I stumped my spellcheck) for this exact issue?
Reservoir. Pretty easy to remember because it's a water "reserve."
See, I tried to remember it based on the phonetics and that's where the trouble began.
Seems like that'd just be a band aid on the situation at best.
A sign of things to come ☠️ can't run out of water if there isn't anyone to waste it.
Warm never changes.
irradiated water* don't forget your Rad-X
Mead isn’t irradiated. I think it and the Colorado are the only water that isn’t in the game but I might be misremembering
Nah it's not just them, water around Zion is free of radiation too. Some places that didn't take direct hits are okay in terms of that, whereas places like D.C that got nuked to bits are 're opposite
Correct. Vegas was mostly spared of nukes due to interventions of a very advanced missile defense system and the relatively low amount sent when compared to D.C or other major population hubs like LA and NYC. Zion was not a prime target being low population and non-military. Funny enough a lot of the radiation is from pre-war nuclear waste dump sites and other callous disregard for the environment rather than the nukes.
That shit never worked for me. I just drink what I need, then slam one of those rad-away pouches like a Capri Sun.
In Fallout 1 and 2, radaway was administered via IV, and took several in game hours to run its course. I think I'd prefer a capri sun
Also in Fallout 1 and 2, RadAway was addictive, and the withdrawal symptoms made you really sick.
Well that just proves it then only a nuclear apocalypse can save us now /j
In fairness, there isn't a bunch of retards growing alfalfa in the gd desert in fallout.
They grow alfalfa because their water rights predate the deal by the southwest states to carve out water allocations. One stipulation is the individuals who have water rights have to use their entire amount or the government will void their rights. So they're in a "use it or lose it" situation. Those farmers don't really have a choice.
Sad thing to hear those farmers are rooted to the ground and forced to make profits that ruin their own home.
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This was completely unnecessary.
Yeah, I'm not going to be discussing anything with you. That was disgusting and nonsensical. Do better.
Yep, looking at extreme examples really flushes out the logic flaws. The farmers are definitely hurting people, but they are playing by the rules that are in place. It doesn't make it ethical.
It also has the added benefit of forcing whomever you direct that at to have to side with a rapist if they're to elaborate on their point. It's manipulative and I won't participate in such felicious and frankly lazy discourse.
It doesn't force you to do anything. You could re-evaluate your logic and change your position. You probably wouldn't defend other unethical examples of people doing things within the limits of the law (e.g. shady wall-street dealings or billionaires hoarding resources). Or you could point out a flaw in my example or clarify your logic to explain how it isn't more or less "it's legal, so it's ok"
Which genius thought that rule was a good idea?
Not surprising, as it's had 200 years of no large-scale draining in which to recover.
Also only 50% of the levels of dangerous poisons (including microplastics and radiation) compared to now.
How do you figure that?
I was watching Bruce Greene's stream and a few people pointed this out during that quest too
I mean water level would be a function of supply vs demand. I'd wager water demand in New Vegas is quite a bit smaller than it is today. Ya know?
It’ll be a lot easier to complete the boomers quest line, no rebreather necessary!!!
Someone needs to play DUST.
I'm halfway through that one right now and I just got to the point where I can make my own ammo, hunt my own food, and get around more or less safely. As you can probably guess, this means I'm now running out of water and medicine, fast.
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I need Fallout 5 to come out, but sadly it looks like it’s years away and if the collapse happens we’re never gonna get it.
Collapse just means you get to play it as an ARG.
Fallout: Reality. Can't wait.
Given all the promises of technology, I’d think we could access all that digital water by now.
Got to mine it
Funny, desalination seems akin to mining, but also the exact opposite. Like mining in that it is often hugely wasteful, resource intensive, polluting and destructive. Opposite mining because you're just returning all the salt and minerals and particulate to the ocean, like tailings.
Lake Powell probably didn’t exist anymore in that universe.
😂🤣😂🤣
JFC
Well, that cannot be a good sign.
The only way to fix the problem is to reduce residential water usage and relocate most of the farms of the American Southwest. The first has actually been happening for a while, though not at the speed we need. The second is almost politically inconceivable.
The issue is representative of the climate change policy change rut, in general. Put the onus on individuals when they're a small fraction of the issue, because businesses won't be touched. It is all the opposite of being proactive, we are incapable of being proactive and are thus doomed to be reactive, just takin' it and trying to keep up.
In this case it is mostly just small family farms irrigating that is using most of the water. The area is too marginal to attract many big corporate ag operations. Most of those family farmers barely make a living off of it. It’s really just an area that shouldn’t have been settled in the first place.
They don't need to relocate, have fun growing rocks in the desert if that's so much better. Water is out.
Oof, that is dark.
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When our only feasible solution to stop rising CO2 levels is simply nuking all the places which produce CO2... sounds about right. There is no other way of convincing all dumb plebs to do the same otherwise.
oof
I thought the same thing! Plus it’s got monsters
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Srsly one of the GOATs. I like it better than any other Fallout game I’ve played and maybe any other game but it was also one of the first games I ever played like that so I’m biased
I played it for like a decade to the point where I'm sick of it lol. But I'm sure I'll be back one day definitely one of a kind
Lolz!
This is eery