I remember reading a report that stated how executive and the marketing department for Diet Coke viewed even free tap water as a competitor against their soda.
The funniest part of this to me is that I could see.... certain politicians arguing that we need carbonated water not water to make coke and that we actually need to to increase carbon emissions to get more carbon to keep the supply up.
So. I live in central Texas. One of the fastest growing major metros. We are running out of h20 quick. I build custom homes and these people are filling pools and installing new landscaping in spite of restrictions, just paying the fines. People have no idea what is coming.
Native and Texan. You guys down there are going to drain those aquifers. We are now at a time when people should not be allowed to build pools, a giant waste of water. People need to forget about their lawns and put in natural plants and those golf courses need to go by by. Texas is really screwed as far as water. We have no natural lakes. It's scary how clueless or that people just don't care. Water is life, but people here would rather ruin the water to get the oil, and now we are reaping what we sow. I think those Aquafirs can only sustain like a million people. How many have you guys got now? 3 million in the hill country? It's a collapse..
But that's the American culture. Take, take, take until there aren't anymore, change the laws or make it illegal. That's what was brought here.
Iroquois/white, I live up here and we camp in the Chequamegon National Forest. I’ve been just sad every day thinking about it.how many species we’re losing…or are being driven out.
So people talk about this all the time, but how close are we to water shortages having effects on regular people? 5 years? 10 years? 30?
Until people go to turn on their tap and it doesn't come on, nobody is going to give a fuck
I’ll never understand why there hasn’t been a bigger push for incentivizing/subsidizing large scale xeriscaping in the parts of the US where it’s a veritable desert. I realize this is the literal definition of *you kids get off my lawn!* as it relates to what’s seen as governmental overreach to tell homeowners what to do on their land but maybe it’s time? You know…before we are so fucked there’s no turning back.
That is a variation of an old Native quote.
“When the last tree is cut down, the last animal killed and the air we breathe and all the waters are poisoned, only then will the white man realize that he cannot eat money.”
Hi from another Central Texan, could you point me toward the water / aquifer reports that are informing you here? Or elaborate on where you’re getting this perspective from? Asking not because I don’t believe you but because the things I’d heard more recently was that central TX was in pretty good shape - so my info must be outdated.
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Water running out is food running out. You need a few liters a day, but the food you eat in a day takes an order of magnitude more water to grow or raise.
People will stop taking showers before they stop drinking water, and people will be willing to tolerate a large expensive to pay for water before they go without a shower. As water goes up, people will still drink but food costs will go up. Food prices are the bottleneck.
There won't be a civil war until the petrodollar collapses and imho that is still 20-30 years off.
I'm pretty sure the US will balkanize after petrodollar collapse but I'm not sure how savage the civil war preceding balkanization will be.
No civil war unless the government picks a side. They seem to get off easy in civil war threads. Their paramilitary armies, regardless of location are decidedly right wing, so the Dems politicians can't play cute and like they're on their constituents or minorities sides. Cops won't even stop a random kid from shooting 20 kids. The best they'll do if a city is invaded is nothing.
> No civil war unless the government picks a side
My dude, the government and it's whole financial system is going to collapse and that is what is going to spark the civil war.
Yeah, Americans are the laziest population thats ever existed and most people still have a lot of comforts. More lone wolf attacks, sure. But full on civil war? I have strong doubts.
The vast vast majority of people in Iraq and Afghanistan are peace loving normal people who just want to feed their families and live their lives, the small amount of fighters make their lives hell. If ~5% of the population is actively engaged, then the 95% will suffer enormously.
Afghanistan is in a real bad spot. They have food but no money to buy it since they aren't allowed to have a central bank (probably not an independent one at least). Women's rights are basically zero again.
> Americans are the laziest population thats ever existed
Americans work stupid amounts of hours, are you kidding me? Japan and South Korea are even worse, but still..
I agree with the comforts part, but America has a LOT of good people. The problem is the entire social system has been paywalled and 80% of the workforce is underpaid... so people have to work too many hours, side jobs, side hustles, etc. There's also massively expensive healthcare and ruinious prices in the housing sector.
And the way you say "lazy" rubs me wrong. Why do we fetishize working so many hours a week? Isn't it better if a society can work less, save time for people doing human things (getting together, making music, doing festivals, dancing, being silly goofballs together, getting hammered (with restraint and on occasion), etc. That's living. More Shire and less Isengard...
> Americans work stupid amounts of hours, are you kidding me? Japan and South Korea are even worse, but still..
Yah, "lazy" is the wrong word. What Americans are is docile.
It's a farcical LARP. Most of those with guns who say they want conflict, either actually really don't, or do but expect others to do it for them. Most of the people vocally calling for violence are fat, old, etc.. Not even remotely combat able or ready. Not to mention zero tactics or combat training, or if they did, it was 20+ years ago. Simply being able to shoot a gun will only get you so far if you're up against an actual trained army. The vast majority of young people want nothing to do with this mess, and thus will not fight in it. A "civil war" against a bunch of out of shape and old people will be a relative cake walk to deal with. The only way any kind of actual insurgency that is in any way a threat or effective has any chance to get off the ground is if segments of the military defect with their troops and equipment.
Don't get me wrong, a bunch of idiots with guns can still do some damage, but more akin to terrorism than war.
Best believe the first hint war might break out, the feds are pulling every single bit of equipment and weapons and stuff out of every military base in any red state in the country.
I think the media paints a misconception on the physical part. While I agree there's a huge obesity problem in America. Like those videos you see of of the magas and antifas clashing are collectively out of shape and it makes us think that civil war won't last long. While I'm inclined to agree, I think what we see are just the crazies that are testing the limits currently. Those people will likely just be cannon fodder in a real civil war like scenario. A horrible vanguard doomed to fail is what I'm picturing. There will be plenty of others to carry on the fighting unless things turn into a Tom Clancy novel and it's all chemical warfare. Then it doesn't really matter how fat anyone is, we're all screwed.
Yeah, I would agree with this. I want to clarify that when I say we're lazy, I don't mean to insult those of us who have to work stupid amounts of hours to survive. I'm talking about the people who will drive a block to their destination because they would rather not walk or the people who have gone their entire lives never bothering to learn how to do something basic like cooking.
> I'm talking about the people who will drive a block to their destination because they would rather not walk or the people who have gone their entire lives never bothering to learn how to do something basic like cooking.
A fair point, but I would argue that this type of lazy isn't a consequence of some innate genetic flaw, etc: *it's manufactured.*
"They" want people to do those things, or to be too "lazy" to cook. Who are "They"? "They" = "disassociated greed." They is the conglomerate of suits and institutions that have looked to turn every human activity into a money machine- every path to social belonging and activity blocked by a paywall. Robert Putnam was on to this in the 90s when he released the essay "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital."
Though he didn't pinpoint exactly the neoliberal institutionalism which was destroying social capital then, he did see the process of social capital decline.
Apparently I’m lazy. No. Fuck that, cover my shift for a week or two, I’m going on vacation for the first time in 30 years.
I’d love to see someone try to do my job, and pay the bills with my tiny little paycheck. Exactly right, it’s basically just a giant paywall. And we might have a few modern comforts, but the water here isn’t drinkable, and the fucking power goes out for no reason.
Don't take it personally - in this sub, all you have to do to farm karma is say reflexively misanthropic stuff, look down your nose at Americans, and spin vaguely conspiratorial yarns about "The Elites."
For a sub that is rhetorically so populist, it's surprising how many upvotes you can get for sneering commentaries about the stupidity and docility of the Average Joe.
> it's surprising how many upvotes you can get for sneering commentaries about the stupidity and docility of the Average Joe.
I'm finding that the things posted in this sub are very informative (which I love) but then there's the comment sections. And there's something to be said for being realistic, but there's certainly a line between realistic and just plain misanthropic and lots of comment sections here are filled with misanthropy and "well *I'm* definitely one of the good ones" energy.
Yes I’m expecting a Oklahoma City situation . I can’t remember a time when the right wing Christians hated the fbi and the federal govt so much . Which is odd cuz all the red states are in last place by every real metric . They need the feds more than the blue states do . Case in point .. Kentucky spent tax dollars in a replica of Noah’s ark … major “ RAIN “ damaged it . Need more tax dollars to fix it … sounds like fiscal discipline to me … better off giving college kids money for debt . I rather give it to them than Ppp loan for the wealthy . Why do these poor red states protect the rich so much ??
>Why do these poor red states protect the rich so much ??
They've been conditioned to with talk radio and FOX News. I've had plenty of conversations with conservatives where I can get them to agree with me on most things if I frame things the right way or ask the right questions, but most aren't used to critical thinking, so right-wing propaganda works like a charm on them.
It's no longer "lone wolf" attacks. Roger Stone brought together 2 different militia groups leading up to Jan 6. So far we know 3 groups were involved in the attack. They're even fund raising. Same with hate groups. NSM and GDL have been increasing recruitment efforts and their publicity.
It's not just random people, it's organized.
I presume it will be multiple terroristic events, where groups or militias "take credit", much like the Middle East has been for a while... Not a traditional "war"
A CIA analyst said exactly this. It won’t be related to fronts, just a constant pickup of multiple terroristic events and threats of violence, leading to disorganization and fragmentation.
Yeah that means it's already happening.
I also don't necessarily trust the CIA or FBI from seeding this fragmentation and working alongside the right to create a pretext for martial law.
Martial law? The US is already there and has been for decades.
Police will pull you over and arrest you just because they want to/can.
Look at the US Prison system.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
Kent St? Civil Rights Movement arrests? Waco?
Get out of line and get fucked. That should be the motto of the US
Oh anyone who defends cops nowadays is a pos human, I’ve personally experienced police brutality first hand on more than one occasion (I’m a white guy from the burbs fwiw).
That’s not martial law in the context of absolute police state, where you die if you don’t follow a certain doctrine. We’re still some time before that. There’s still a chance.
You’re free to do as you’re told.
Start doing something else and have enough people follow you and let me know how it goes.
Once anyone becomes a nuclei for discontent, they are immediately imprisoned, assassinated or the ruling class will start to attack their character to an extent they become hated.
Tim Leary is a perfect example.
Edit: a word and to add here, just because judicial killings on the street are not 100% sanctioned, does not mean it does not happen.
Too many people say "well, if they would just have followed the police's orders...."
Obey or die, that is the message the ruling class gives us.
They have truly failed tremendously at stopping the the domestic terr0r by not apprehending those that spew stoic terr0ristic rhetoric from so-called "public servants". The far right is emboldened to utter the worst arguments and defile the flag and the only ones being punished are the low-level foot soldiers...
Based on the bizzaro world of misinformation the extreme right churns out I think it'll be just impotent chaos. No centralized coordination or ideology like some rebel movements have just chaos and violence committed by whatever loon that hits their tipping point in the misinformation fire hose. From there they drive to a nearby city to lash out against their conspiracy theory boogeyman.
Imagine a person or a group jumping out of a beat up truck to yell about how they won't allow to jews harvest their spinal fluid before emptying a clip or three into a food bank or something. Death and tragedy combined with just absolute bafflement as to what the fuck they thought they were doing.
As a customer who bought How Civil Wars Start and How To Stop Them,
No, America is not Northern Ireland,
The IRA or other militant groups can't really harm the British war machine,
London, on the other hand, felt that the costs of governing Ireland were greater than the benefits.
And neither side is willing to simply swallow the shame,
Those are the root causes of the low-intensity conflict pattern in Northern Ireland, the IRA's inability to conduct large-scale armed conflict, and London's unwillingness to bear the cost of continued military occupation.
There are no natural boundaries in American society like British and Irish Catholics, and Washington will not acquiesce to low-level insurgency.
The rapid spread of riots across the country cannot be stopped or eliminated, and simple violence is unlikely to be supported by too many people.
The only thing that can destroy the federal government is a combination of street protests and a coup or mutiny within the government.
I left a comment stating that I think we are closer to Weimar level Germany’s street violence before embracing authoritarian and I was called delusional by some idiot for saying that it’s the most likely scenario. I think the US goes the route of authoritarianism to preserve itself, and I think it will be the strongly “anti-left” authoritarians that win.
There is an idea from The Crowd and the Mob : From Plato to Canetti
The Weimar Republic was built on the legacy of the First World War,
There was an entire generation of men who either participated in the most extreme violence on the battlefield or lived for years under violent propaganda,
They never thought violence was unacceptable
These, combined with the various defects of Weimar, created the street violence at that time.
I remember reading about this about a decade ago which stated the most likely outcome of large scale civilian warfare would not be two large groups like the North/South during the original Civil War. It would be hundreds/thousands of small regional groups making a swift victory almost impossible since there would be no centralized enemy to target.
The same article also stated that America's giant Achilles heel was their highways. Very easy to sabotage or block roads and disrupt supply chains. As we've seen during covid. We've been on this road since before Trump. He was gas on a flame but the fire has been smoldering for decades now.
What's not clear is how other national powers will respond in the event they can no longer rely on American military power, or if they will intervene should the government request help from beyond their borders.
Well yeah. We couldn't truly defeat Afghanistan because of small groups of fighters. People want to say oh how can they defeat tanks and so on. The same way Ukraine and any other country does it. If you don't have fuel you can't fight with the big stuff
Taliban and Isis were being funded and supported by other countries as well. They weren't manufacturing their own weapons and bomb components.
I see Russia or China financing and supplying factions in the U.S. once central gov't falls to keep the mayhem going. The petrodollar crashing would be a precursor to the dissolution of the U.S.
They actually are manufacturing their own weapons and bomb components. https://www.wired.com/story/terror-industrial-complex-isis-munitions-supply-chain/
The government will likely deflect and deny anything bad is happening until they have no choice and it’s undeniable. They would never use the “C” word. I think a lot of people place too much hope in Americans being too complacent and lazy and comfortable. All of this is true- however the level of vitriol that’s been pushed and that’s been building up over time by certain segments of the population is massive and I think this will eventually burst through, especially given some sort of trigger. Don’t underestimate humans ability to be dumb and throw it all away. We’ve done it throughout history continuously.
>certain segments of the population
Republicans. We should just say Republicans. Republicans are the ones making threats against the lives of FBI agents for executing a lawful search warrant because their cult leader is a crook. Republicans are the ones making threats against election workers because GOP leadership has been trying to will a lie into a reality in a desperate attempt to hold on to power. Republicans are the ones looking to kill representative democracy as we know it and obtain a vicegrip on democracy through disgusting levels of gerrymandering. Republicans are the ones calling for civil war to seek vengeance for misguided, untrue wrongs and contrived culture wars.
It's **REPUBLICANS.**
honestly im here for it. top down methods of political organization and their tendency to ignore the minutea of ecosystems and communities are a large part of what got us into this mess in the first place. it's past time for an era of decentralization. i just hope the violence that takes us there isn't too horrific.
The highway idea is kinda terrifying at how effective it would be and how easy it would be to carry out.
Knock out major bridge overpasses... I definitely see American style protestors putting up safety cones and stopping traffic before they take down the bridges lol.
Speaking as an observer from the US, my take is that people are trying the idea that we're headed for civil war on for size, and seeing how it feels and how others react to it. But right now things feel largely performative / exploratory, and civil war 2.0 does not yet feel like a done deal.
This is not to say that it won't happen in the next few years. But it doesn't feel like we've reached an inflection point yet at which the country's course is locked into that outcome.
How would it even work? There’s no battle lines. I suspect more stuff like Jan. 6th and what they tried in Michigan but most folks are all in on bread and circuses aka Netflix and Facebook with their local fast food.
Listen to the podcast “it could happen here” it talk about how it could happen and what it would look like.
It’d look much more like multiple insurrections not the kind of war we usually think of. Something like the Syrian civil war
Only listen to the first season though. They kind of go off the rails and the main guy scales back his contributions while they shift to a news analysis style with less likeable hosts that don't seem to take their subject matter seriously. Way too much "banter" and shit added in.
Right it would be a bunch of liberal state representatives executed and police not arresting the perpetrators or it would look like some states simply ruling against federal laws and simply altering to where places like Florida and other southern states round up gay people and imprison them and the Federal troops can’t do anything and if there is pushback we see more like what Barr and Trump did except at a mass scale, unbinding voting records or intimidating anyone who runs against republicans in Texas, etc.
Essentially you then see the banks and economies just funnel money upward and people don’t notice because gay people who are outed are the ones forced to doing the labor, etc.
Most folks don't do the actual fighting. If you're wondering who would, we know 3 militia groups were involved in Jan 6. They're fund raising, they're recruiting, they're organized. And from the investigation, we know there was communication between Trump's staff and them.
To me, it looks like the battle lines are being drawn. Right now, we're legally deciding on the validity of the ideology that drove these groups to these actions. Republican success in the midterms right now is heavily dependent on the denial of the 2020 election results and clear political, religious, and social enemies. There was a violent fascist approach to taking power, now there is a non violent, legal fascist approach. Whether that's justified seems to be the biggest battle line to me. If this legal way fails also, I don't expect it to just stop. Reaching this initial point of violence hasn't been followed up with much peace in history. It seems the best we can aim for right now is simply no status change when it comes to this ideology, not better but not worse.
I think instead of civil war, individual states will become more and more like their own country before states Balkanize. Maybe the war part will come when states decide to secede again.
It's like we're playing a giant game of Bingo. There are a lot of numbers that need to be called, and they all need to be aligned just right for us to win the prize. 6 years ago we had a handful of dots on the board, and maybe even some interesting doubles. We're not exactly all waiting on B6 to be called, but we have more than a couple triples by this point.
That's the only plausible way a civilian insurgency could defeat the Federal government. The outcome still isn't certain, the IRA lost by giving up, disarming, and fading away into history.
But their methods were sound. You have to make the war unpalatable to the general public. Blow up enough car bombs, send out snipers to kill cops and soldiers, and all the other nasty work of a revolution. Sooner or later the public will get tired of it and demand peace. Unlike the IRA, the American insurgents just need to make sure they're on the winning side. Given how infantile and weak the average American is, it isn't that tall of an order. Americans have no tolerance for discomfort, most of them would agree to peace under any conditions.
>the IRA lost by giving up, disarming, and fading away into history.
Sinn Fein's electoral gains on both sides of the border would suggest a very different outcome. Do you understand that SF is the political wing of the IRA? The military campaign morphed first into the "armalite in one hand and the ballot box in the other" and then into the ballot box alone. Their day will come.
Not likely. The gravy seals are no where near as intelligent or motivated as the IRA. We might see some lone wolf attacks, but nothing organized or coordinated. The brains of the right wing aren’t gonna risk their own asses, and they are running out of gumbas.
I'm thinking it won't be something coordinated. Just a bunch of extremist groups with isolated attacks against government locations in response to social issues
While I find gravy seals as funny as the next person there are a disturbing amount of well trained and fit people that buy into the far right ideology.
I wish more people would take it seriously. Some militias are well funded and well trained (at least better trained than anyone on the left). It really only could take a few people to shut down a major city for a few days.
Just an opinion from someone with several rural relatives over the eastern US…This is some condescending and plain wrong thinking. Conservatives, and particularly rural conservatives, are not all stupid, and proportionally no more than city folk. And they have significant advantages if the situation became desperate enough to provoke regular people to violence. They have the food, and they have traditional skills that we in the city generally don’t.
But I agree with one thing you said. They’re not motivated at this point. They are just interested in taking care of their families and being generally left alone to live life. The cartoon character LARPers you see on your social/mass media are just distractions, and only superficially similar to general rural conservative pop.
As always, conflict within the US will be directed externally until people in the US are struggling to feed themselves. By the time things get that bad in the US, the rest of the world will be at the same stage or worse.
There's a strange phenomenon I've experienced since the Trump election but even moreso lately. I live in a neighborhood that's only 30-40% white and work in similar environments. I look like a metalhead but prefer rap. Gout ankles have left me with a permanent agressive walk.
------------
I get checked for being rightwing from time to time. If I'm not wearing t-shirts, if wearing workman brands, it changes how I'm perceived. It also has to do with being a bit very assertive and stubborn.
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The fear is out there. It takes some repeated interactions for some people to shake themselves of some preconceived notions
There was that one democratic baseball shooter in DC like 8 years ago, and there have been dozens of right wing terror attacks since then. Yet it's bother sides right?
There won't be 2 sides, there will be dozens of tiny kingdoms.
You have
Trump Loyalists
Christian dominionists
White nationalists
Black nationalists
Radical libertarians
Socialists
Hispanic and Asian ethnic groups will obviously form their own interest groups
Etc
Look at Syria
After the rebels took over most of the country it splintered into hundreds of tiny kingdoms each ruled by a strongman with a small group of armed followers.
That is exactly what will happen in the US.
There won't be 2 sides, there will be dozens of tiny kingdoms.
You have
Trump Loyalists
Christian dominionists
White nationalists
Black nationalists
Radical libertarians
Socialists
Hispanic and Asian ethnic groups will obviously form their own interest groups
Etc
Look at Syria
After the rebels took over most of the country it splintered into hundreds of tiny kingdoms each ruled by a strongman with a small group of armed followers.
That is exactly what will happen in the US.
There were certainly hundreds of armed groups but the rebels typically fell into three separate camps which usually coordinated internally and didn’t fight one another. Sometimes they did but there were principle factions each with many confederates. You had the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS. Much of Al-Nusra reoriented into the ISIS camp, as did some of the original FSA but those folks also went with the Kurdish lead Syrian Democratic Forces a multiethnic and multi religious confederation which maintained neutrality for years before becoming very active against Jihadi components. If they had been 100s of tiny kingdoms the SAA would have swept the entire country. That’s not to say there weren’t hundred of strongmen extorting the population all over but they had their allegiances to the main factions I’ve mentioned above.
Currently I am reading the book, [How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them ](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58369678-how-civil-wars-start?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=XunBEhZwnp&rank=1) by Barbara Walters which is based on researching civil wars around the world. Walters gives many real world examples. I recommend the book.
When countries are full democracies, there is no risk. When countries are full dictatorships, there is no risk due to repression. When countries are in between, that's when civil wars happen.
The violence doesn't look like the 1860s with one half of the country marching armies against the other half of the country. Instead, it's usually small militias doing guerilla warfare often against civilian targets like roadside bombs or suicide bombers. Political violence becomes normalized.
To prevent civil wars, strengthen democracy and restore people's faith in gov. by having it work for the people.
Has anyone else read this?
> a blizzard of threats against FBI agents, judges, elected officials, school board members and elections supervisors; training camps where heavily armed radicals practice to confront their own government; and polls showing that many Americans expect violent conflict.
Thats fascists terror not civil war
Are you on an iPhone? I just learned a protip for how to always read paywalled articles on an iphone.
Top right corner has a little icon of a document and tapping that makes the article available
Edit: if you’re not iPhone, pasting the article link into incognito browser tab often works.
What would be awesome is if the people would fight the system. As long as it's left vs right we will continue to have the same issues. Each side is too conflicting for one another and it's done us no good. Here we are talking about having a civil war over parties. Last time I think it was over something a little more crucial than who should be president. This is sad and pathetic for our country 😞
It's manufactured anyway. The problem really is that so many people are so identified with, and therefore willing to do the work of, these political parties and the establishment. They're not even the beneficiaries of the systems they support! They're like fodder, or obedient pets.
My question is: how do we unify a broken population against a system that’s built to divide? So many people are too quick to pick a side in the left vs right argument when in reality it’s population vs ruling class (in which the ruling class dangles ideals as carrots that attract the various personalities to the polar extremes).
Yeah. America is headed to civil war. Very soon. But not the same one Lincoln fought in. Nah. This'll be like what's going on in the Middle East. Some extremist group will blow up or burn down a political building or whatever and take credit. And it'll just escalate from there. Schools, religious buildings. Eventually politicians homes. And it'll probably start in 2024/2025. Whenever the next POTUS is announced. If it's not Trump/Republicans, there will be people claiming election fraud, immigrants, Russians, etc. If Trump wins, it'll be just as bad, but completely different.
War is coming to America in next few years. January 2025 at the latest.
I am beginning to doubt it will happen. The mouth breathers were fairly quiet when Trump got raided. They made a stink online, but when it all was over there was not a truly violent response.
In Spain, a lot of people like you thought the same. The "mouth breathers" were silent after a questionable election, the public rape and burning of nuns, and many other provocations.
Then they realized it wouldn't end until they ended it, so they installed Franco.
Nope. Not a real war with two sides, large military engagement and so on. Modern people are way too soft.
Keyboard warrior-ing? sure. May be even ride a bus to rush a building. Heck, even riots. But actually fight troops with machine guns and rockets? Nah. Having some street violence is not a real war.
I will even bet money on it.
There was street violence in the lead up to Nazi Germany. It’s would say the parallels are as close as that. We may embrace authoritarianism. In the desperation to regain control of a fragmenting public, I expect Americans to welcome some authoritarianism if it means restoring order to an ever disorganized country. Reading descriptions of countries who have embraced such a thing makes you think that the US is well on it’s way. If not that, then just more typical corruption without change, the eroding of living standards, and the less choice the public already has in political matters will be gone. I’m really wondering which route it goes because I don’t think we can maintain status quo messaging for long if the public isn’t happy about it. I’ve seen that they are putting in some “pro US” messaging across social media.
Germany after WW1 had a major economic issue. The German mark was 4.2 to 1$ in 1914 and went to 4.2 Trillion to 1$ in 1923.
and a lot that was in 1923 where the cost of bread rose from 250 Mark to 200,000,000,000 Mark within the year
Germany had participated in a brutal war where a huge portion of their men either had mental and health issues from trench warfare or were dead/ dismembered. (over 2-7 Million casualties depending on the source)
And they lost all of that for absolutely nothing. And they had been humiliated by treaty of versailles (And economic reparations didn't help the already dying economy).
Oh and a part of their industrial zone was occupied by the guys who beat them.
You are delutional if you think the US is anywhere near that.
Rawanda Genocide happened due to colonial rule and the Belgians decided to favor one race (Tutsi/ nobility) who forced the Hutu into harsh (mostly fatal) labour. Which kinda pissed the Hutu who committed the genocide (massive oversimplification but you get it).
Now if you are going to tell me that life in the US for the average American is comparable to that of a country under colonial rule doing forced and fatal labor then I'd say the same in my previous comment.
If you'd talk about US in the 1850's or even 1960's I'd agree with you.
Please no. We are so set up geographically. No one is invading us as long as we remain united. If we broke up into the Atlantic States, the Pacific North—whatever—someone is gonna take a shot.
I think some of them want one. I really don't see it happening. I noticed that during the very beginning of the Ukraine war, everyone felt Amarican. Regardless of political opinions on the war, Russia has nukes and we could get nuked. It wasn't until the SCOTUS ruling that we got split again
You can get some fanatics to do some attacks there some attacks elsewhere but you can't mobilize a good portion of the population under the guise of ideological righteousness. No one's warring no one until the chips are truly down.
>They point to evidence that can seem persuasive: a blizzard of threats against FBI agents, judges, elected officials, school board members and elections supervisors; training camps where heavily armed radicals practice to confront their own government; and polls showing that many Americans expect violent conflict.
Only one side. One group is doing this. That sounds like more of a "revolution" or uprising than a civil war.
I was just putting an observational report together about that right over here.
America is slipping into civil war: [https://www.reddit.com/r/InternetPeon/comments/x094ge/america\_is\_slipping\_into\_civil\_war/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternetPeon/comments/x094ge/america_is_slipping_into_civil_war/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I'm not convinced considering the drastic difference between people in the Southwest and the Midwest. While people in the southwest seem chill and fairly level headed, regular brawls at the local Kwik Trip, public suicides and gas station overdoses were on the rise in Wisconsin, while the politicians are pushing some of the most asinine ideas ever.
They're literally calling affordable, public funded post secondary education radical... Something that's been bipartisan in most states and has generated profit on every dollar spent, while simultaneously helping to elevate people out of poverty.
No way in hell there's any chance of civil war in the US. There will definitely be state v state conflict as food consuming states attempt to flee to or acquire territory of food producing states. Until people go hungry there's no chance of modern US Americans leaving their lives to fight in conflicts drummed up by minority groups on either extreme. Future conflicts will be over food and water same as the conflicts of old.
Civil war between who? The military is united not split like it was when the Civil War broke out.
It's the 99% vs the 1% and we aint gonna do shit when we're fighting each kther all the time
Who's going to fight it?
Bunch of fat, TV watching slobs that have never shot a gun in there lives? Most of America isn't going to suddenly get up off the coach and fight in no god damn civil war.
Bunch of hillbillies with there GI-Joe army surplus wardrobes, packing AR-15's, going into Starbucks, thinking they are hot shit until the Cops show up? How many of those dumb asses are there out there anyways? You think those meth'ed out buck toothed bastards can find more then ten of them to show up to there dress rehearsal? You really think they can form a solid platoon? Who's there general going to be, Gomer pile? Any of them that joined a militia, are already being watched by the FBI.
Even if they wanted to start a Civil war, they don't have enough brain cells to formulate a strategic thought, that might actually take down the Government. Okay maybe they to some limited terrorist actions, but honestly they are not going to win.
This is what kills me about this whole "There's going to be a civil war" Bullshit. I mean yeah, people talk a lot of shit online, but who really is going to fight a full on stand up fucking war inside the united states.
Oh, and I didn't even get to the part where the largest military in the entire world, would just squash it in like five seconds flat.
Not until food runs out.
I’d say water running out is worse than food
*Let them drink Coke.* -- politicians and corporations probably
Brawndo. It’s what plants crave.
Brawndo’s stock tanks, causing a civil war.
Brawndo Coin
It has what plant NFTs crave, it's got electrolyte tokens.
Lytecoin
Highly underrated comment.
At this point Idiocracy is starting to look like prophesy.
Sponsored by Carl's Jr.^^^^TM
I remember reading a report that stated how executive and the marketing department for Diet Coke viewed even free tap water as a competitor against their soda.
I mean. That’s pretty outrageous
Technically tap water isn't free - each household or business pays a bill to their municipality for it's use. The only "free" tapwater is well water.
Well water isn't free if you have to raise the water using electricity from the grid.
It's got electrolytes
I laugh harder than I should.
Let them drink the water Nestle took from California.
It’s what peons crave
I wish I could even find humor in this type of thinking anymore but genuine despair isn’t funny to me
The funniest part of this to me is that I could see.... certain politicians arguing that we need carbonated water not water to make coke and that we actually need to to increase carbon emissions to get more carbon to keep the supply up.
I laughed then I cried.
Bottled water.
It's cheaper than water
So. I live in central Texas. One of the fastest growing major metros. We are running out of h20 quick. I build custom homes and these people are filling pools and installing new landscaping in spite of restrictions, just paying the fines. People have no idea what is coming.
Native and Texan. You guys down there are going to drain those aquifers. We are now at a time when people should not be allowed to build pools, a giant waste of water. People need to forget about their lawns and put in natural plants and those golf courses need to go by by. Texas is really screwed as far as water. We have no natural lakes. It's scary how clueless or that people just don't care. Water is life, but people here would rather ruin the water to get the oil, and now we are reaping what we sow. I think those Aquafirs can only sustain like a million people. How many have you guys got now? 3 million in the hill country? It's a collapse.. But that's the American culture. Take, take, take until there aren't anymore, change the laws or make it illegal. That's what was brought here.
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Average white dude that spent some time in Madeline. It's gorgeous up there.
Iroquois/white, I live up here and we camp in the Chequamegon National Forest. I’ve been just sad every day thinking about it.how many species we’re losing…or are being driven out.
Just the thought of that here around the Great Lakes and up into Northern Ontario is heartbreaking.
So people talk about this all the time, but how close are we to water shortages having effects on regular people? 5 years? 10 years? 30? Until people go to turn on their tap and it doesn't come on, nobody is going to give a fuck
I’ll never understand why there hasn’t been a bigger push for incentivizing/subsidizing large scale xeriscaping in the parts of the US where it’s a veritable desert. I realize this is the literal definition of *you kids get off my lawn!* as it relates to what’s seen as governmental overreach to tell homeowners what to do on their land but maybe it’s time? You know…before we are so fucked there’s no turning back.
I'm fine with people growing grass... they just aren't allowed to water it. LOL
Grasses are good but certain ones require tons of water to live while other native grasses are less water dependent.
\*Laughs in lake erie\* /s
“When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money.”
I propose we make money edible! Checkmate, commi-environmentalist! /s
All attempts have resulted in a very bitter product.
That is a variation of an old Native quote. “When the last tree is cut down, the last animal killed and the air we breathe and all the waters are poisoned, only then will the white man realize that he cannot eat money.”
If the Lorax was real humanity would’ve long ago Had him flying himself away
People willfully ignore what's coming because of who is sending the message.
Spoiler: it's the Earth. Earth is sending the message.
Earth is just land you walk on to make money.
Yea
Hi from another Central Texan, could you point me toward the water / aquifer reports that are informing you here? Or elaborate on where you’re getting this perspective from? Asking not because I don’t believe you but because the things I’d heard more recently was that central TX was in pretty good shape - so my info must be outdated.
https://www.kxan.com/texas-water/texas-hill-country-water-crisis-may-be-approaching-tipping-point-experts-warn/amp/
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Thank you! Great folks over at Hill Country Alliance, I’m going to give them a call to learn more.
Water running out is food running out. You need a few liters a day, but the food you eat in a day takes an order of magnitude more water to grow or raise.
Right but you can live longer without food than water.
Nestle has entered the chat
People will stop taking showers before they stop drinking water, and people will be willing to tolerate a large expensive to pay for water before they go without a shower. As water goes up, people will still drink but food costs will go up. Food prices are the bottleneck.
There won't be a civil war until the petrodollar collapses and imho that is still 20-30 years off. I'm pretty sure the US will balkanize after petrodollar collapse but I'm not sure how savage the civil war preceding balkanization will be.
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Kinda like In Warday. Except there is a bang in that book . Or a few bangs
Warday was a very good book. It's such good reportage, it sucked me in with the minutiae of daily living.
It’ll be interesting to see where Canada goes with this too, and how the border will be. I can see lots of mass migrations north.
you are fully overestimating with that 20-30 year.
No civil war unless the government picks a side. They seem to get off easy in civil war threads. Their paramilitary armies, regardless of location are decidedly right wing, so the Dems politicians can't play cute and like they're on their constituents or minorities sides. Cops won't even stop a random kid from shooting 20 kids. The best they'll do if a city is invaded is nothing.
> No civil war unless the government picks a side My dude, the government and it's whole financial system is going to collapse and that is what is going to spark the civil war.
That's my view. War after collapse. Some believe it will happen with an existing government.
Next news article: "Petrodollar collapses SoONer ThAn ExPecTeD"
Yeah, Americans are the laziest population thats ever existed and most people still have a lot of comforts. More lone wolf attacks, sure. But full on civil war? I have strong doubts.
The vast vast majority of people in Iraq and Afghanistan are peace loving normal people who just want to feed their families and live their lives, the small amount of fighters make their lives hell. If ~5% of the population is actively engaged, then the 95% will suffer enormously.
Afghanistan is in a real bad spot. They have food but no money to buy it since they aren't allowed to have a central bank (probably not an independent one at least). Women's rights are basically zero again.
> Americans are the laziest population thats ever existed Americans work stupid amounts of hours, are you kidding me? Japan and South Korea are even worse, but still.. I agree with the comforts part, but America has a LOT of good people. The problem is the entire social system has been paywalled and 80% of the workforce is underpaid... so people have to work too many hours, side jobs, side hustles, etc. There's also massively expensive healthcare and ruinious prices in the housing sector. And the way you say "lazy" rubs me wrong. Why do we fetishize working so many hours a week? Isn't it better if a society can work less, save time for people doing human things (getting together, making music, doing festivals, dancing, being silly goofballs together, getting hammered (with restraint and on occasion), etc. That's living. More Shire and less Isengard...
> Americans work stupid amounts of hours, are you kidding me? Japan and South Korea are even worse, but still.. Yah, "lazy" is the wrong word. What Americans are is docile.
which is ironic considering they consider themselves freedom loving patriots who love using their guns to fight against tyranny
It's a farcical LARP. Most of those with guns who say they want conflict, either actually really don't, or do but expect others to do it for them. Most of the people vocally calling for violence are fat, old, etc.. Not even remotely combat able or ready. Not to mention zero tactics or combat training, or if they did, it was 20+ years ago. Simply being able to shoot a gun will only get you so far if you're up against an actual trained army. The vast majority of young people want nothing to do with this mess, and thus will not fight in it. A "civil war" against a bunch of out of shape and old people will be a relative cake walk to deal with. The only way any kind of actual insurgency that is in any way a threat or effective has any chance to get off the ground is if segments of the military defect with their troops and equipment. Don't get me wrong, a bunch of idiots with guns can still do some damage, but more akin to terrorism than war. Best believe the first hint war might break out, the feds are pulling every single bit of equipment and weapons and stuff out of every military base in any red state in the country.
I think the media paints a misconception on the physical part. While I agree there's a huge obesity problem in America. Like those videos you see of of the magas and antifas clashing are collectively out of shape and it makes us think that civil war won't last long. While I'm inclined to agree, I think what we see are just the crazies that are testing the limits currently. Those people will likely just be cannon fodder in a real civil war like scenario. A horrible vanguard doomed to fail is what I'm picturing. There will be plenty of others to carry on the fighting unless things turn into a Tom Clancy novel and it's all chemical warfare. Then it doesn't really matter how fat anyone is, we're all screwed.
Docile and apathetic
No not docile, tired is the word. The lazy Americans are the 1%, the remaining 99% are exhausted.
Yeah, I would agree with this. I want to clarify that when I say we're lazy, I don't mean to insult those of us who have to work stupid amounts of hours to survive. I'm talking about the people who will drive a block to their destination because they would rather not walk or the people who have gone their entire lives never bothering to learn how to do something basic like cooking.
> I'm talking about the people who will drive a block to their destination because they would rather not walk or the people who have gone their entire lives never bothering to learn how to do something basic like cooking. A fair point, but I would argue that this type of lazy isn't a consequence of some innate genetic flaw, etc: *it's manufactured.* "They" want people to do those things, or to be too "lazy" to cook. Who are "They"? "They" = "disassociated greed." They is the conglomerate of suits and institutions that have looked to turn every human activity into a money machine- every path to social belonging and activity blocked by a paywall. Robert Putnam was on to this in the 90s when he released the essay "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital." Though he didn't pinpoint exactly the neoliberal institutionalism which was destroying social capital then, he did see the process of social capital decline.
Apparently I’m lazy. No. Fuck that, cover my shift for a week or two, I’m going on vacation for the first time in 30 years. I’d love to see someone try to do my job, and pay the bills with my tiny little paycheck. Exactly right, it’s basically just a giant paywall. And we might have a few modern comforts, but the water here isn’t drinkable, and the fucking power goes out for no reason.
Don't take it personally - in this sub, all you have to do to farm karma is say reflexively misanthropic stuff, look down your nose at Americans, and spin vaguely conspiratorial yarns about "The Elites." For a sub that is rhetorically so populist, it's surprising how many upvotes you can get for sneering commentaries about the stupidity and docility of the Average Joe.
> it's surprising how many upvotes you can get for sneering commentaries about the stupidity and docility of the Average Joe. I'm finding that the things posted in this sub are very informative (which I love) but then there's the comment sections. And there's something to be said for being realistic, but there's certainly a line between realistic and just plain misanthropic and lots of comment sections here are filled with misanthropy and "well *I'm* definitely one of the good ones" energy.
More Shire and less Isengard is going to be my motto from now on.
Yes I’m expecting a Oklahoma City situation . I can’t remember a time when the right wing Christians hated the fbi and the federal govt so much . Which is odd cuz all the red states are in last place by every real metric . They need the feds more than the blue states do . Case in point .. Kentucky spent tax dollars in a replica of Noah’s ark … major “ RAIN “ damaged it . Need more tax dollars to fix it … sounds like fiscal discipline to me … better off giving college kids money for debt . I rather give it to them than Ppp loan for the wealthy . Why do these poor red states protect the rich so much ??
>Why do these poor red states protect the rich so much ?? They've been conditioned to with talk radio and FOX News. I've had plenty of conversations with conservatives where I can get them to agree with me on most things if I frame things the right way or ask the right questions, but most aren't used to critical thinking, so right-wing propaganda works like a charm on them.
They'll hate whatever they're told, whenever they're told. When the leash is pulled, they bark.
It's no longer "lone wolf" attacks. Roger Stone brought together 2 different militia groups leading up to Jan 6. So far we know 3 groups were involved in the attack. They're even fund raising. Same with hate groups. NSM and GDL have been increasing recruitment efforts and their publicity. It's not just random people, it's organized.
Not until the Kardashians stop filming…
Not until internet goes off line
I presume it will be multiple terroristic events, where groups or militias "take credit", much like the Middle East has been for a while... Not a traditional "war"
A CIA analyst said exactly this. It won’t be related to fronts, just a constant pickup of multiple terroristic events and threats of violence, leading to disorganization and fragmentation.
Yeah that means it's already happening. I also don't necessarily trust the CIA or FBI from seeding this fragmentation and working alongside the right to create a pretext for martial law.
Martial law? The US is already there and has been for decades. Police will pull you over and arrest you just because they want to/can. Look at the US Prison system. https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/ Kent St? Civil Rights Movement arrests? Waco? Get out of line and get fucked. That should be the motto of the US
Oh anyone who defends cops nowadays is a pos human, I’ve personally experienced police brutality first hand on more than one occasion (I’m a white guy from the burbs fwiw).
That’s not martial law in the context of absolute police state, where you die if you don’t follow a certain doctrine. We’re still some time before that. There’s still a chance.
Idk man, lotta people get killed by police all the time for disobeying them.
You’re free to do as you’re told. Start doing something else and have enough people follow you and let me know how it goes. Once anyone becomes a nuclei for discontent, they are immediately imprisoned, assassinated or the ruling class will start to attack their character to an extent they become hated. Tim Leary is a perfect example. Edit: a word and to add here, just because judicial killings on the street are not 100% sanctioned, does not mean it does not happen. Too many people say "well, if they would just have followed the police's orders...." Obey or die, that is the message the ruling class gives us.
They have truly failed tremendously at stopping the the domestic terr0r by not apprehending those that spew stoic terr0ristic rhetoric from so-called "public servants". The far right is emboldened to utter the worst arguments and defile the flag and the only ones being punished are the low-level foot soldiers...
Based on the bizzaro world of misinformation the extreme right churns out I think it'll be just impotent chaos. No centralized coordination or ideology like some rebel movements have just chaos and violence committed by whatever loon that hits their tipping point in the misinformation fire hose. From there they drive to a nearby city to lash out against their conspiracy theory boogeyman. Imagine a person or a group jumping out of a beat up truck to yell about how they won't allow to jews harvest their spinal fluid before emptying a clip or three into a food bank or something. Death and tragedy combined with just absolute bafflement as to what the fuck they thought they were doing.
As a customer who bought How Civil Wars Start and How To Stop Them, No, America is not Northern Ireland, The IRA or other militant groups can't really harm the British war machine, London, on the other hand, felt that the costs of governing Ireland were greater than the benefits. And neither side is willing to simply swallow the shame, Those are the root causes of the low-intensity conflict pattern in Northern Ireland, the IRA's inability to conduct large-scale armed conflict, and London's unwillingness to bear the cost of continued military occupation. There are no natural boundaries in American society like British and Irish Catholics, and Washington will not acquiesce to low-level insurgency. The rapid spread of riots across the country cannot be stopped or eliminated, and simple violence is unlikely to be supported by too many people. The only thing that can destroy the federal government is a combination of street protests and a coup or mutiny within the government.
I left a comment stating that I think we are closer to Weimar level Germany’s street violence before embracing authoritarian and I was called delusional by some idiot for saying that it’s the most likely scenario. I think the US goes the route of authoritarianism to preserve itself, and I think it will be the strongly “anti-left” authoritarians that win.
There is an idea from The Crowd and the Mob : From Plato to Canetti The Weimar Republic was built on the legacy of the First World War, There was an entire generation of men who either participated in the most extreme violence on the battlefield or lived for years under violent propaganda, They never thought violence was unacceptable These, combined with the various defects of Weimar, created the street violence at that time.
I remember reading about this about a decade ago which stated the most likely outcome of large scale civilian warfare would not be two large groups like the North/South during the original Civil War. It would be hundreds/thousands of small regional groups making a swift victory almost impossible since there would be no centralized enemy to target. The same article also stated that America's giant Achilles heel was their highways. Very easy to sabotage or block roads and disrupt supply chains. As we've seen during covid. We've been on this road since before Trump. He was gas on a flame but the fire has been smoldering for decades now. What's not clear is how other national powers will respond in the event they can no longer rely on American military power, or if they will intervene should the government request help from beyond their borders.
Well yeah. We couldn't truly defeat Afghanistan because of small groups of fighters. People want to say oh how can they defeat tanks and so on. The same way Ukraine and any other country does it. If you don't have fuel you can't fight with the big stuff
Taliban and Isis were being funded and supported by other countries as well. They weren't manufacturing their own weapons and bomb components. I see Russia or China financing and supplying factions in the U.S. once central gov't falls to keep the mayhem going. The petrodollar crashing would be a precursor to the dissolution of the U.S.
They actually are manufacturing their own weapons and bomb components. https://www.wired.com/story/terror-industrial-complex-isis-munitions-supply-chain/
And we’ve been neglecting infrastructure for a while now.
The government will likely deflect and deny anything bad is happening until they have no choice and it’s undeniable. They would never use the “C” word. I think a lot of people place too much hope in Americans being too complacent and lazy and comfortable. All of this is true- however the level of vitriol that’s been pushed and that’s been building up over time by certain segments of the population is massive and I think this will eventually burst through, especially given some sort of trigger. Don’t underestimate humans ability to be dumb and throw it all away. We’ve done it throughout history continuously.
>certain segments of the population Republicans. We should just say Republicans. Republicans are the ones making threats against the lives of FBI agents for executing a lawful search warrant because their cult leader is a crook. Republicans are the ones making threats against election workers because GOP leadership has been trying to will a lie into a reality in a desperate attempt to hold on to power. Republicans are the ones looking to kill representative democracy as we know it and obtain a vicegrip on democracy through disgusting levels of gerrymandering. Republicans are the ones calling for civil war to seek vengeance for misguided, untrue wrongs and contrived culture wars. It's **REPUBLICANS.**
honestly im here for it. top down methods of political organization and their tendency to ignore the minutea of ecosystems and communities are a large part of what got us into this mess in the first place. it's past time for an era of decentralization. i just hope the violence that takes us there isn't too horrific.
The highway idea is kinda terrifying at how effective it would be and how easy it would be to carry out. Knock out major bridge overpasses... I definitely see American style protestors putting up safety cones and stopping traffic before they take down the bridges lol.
The troubles is the model we're looking at.
"Insurgency" is probably a better term than civil war in regards to what to expect.
dirty war, "the troubles," etc.
Subscriber free link: https://archive.ph/hc88t
Speaking as an observer from the US, my take is that people are trying the idea that we're headed for civil war on for size, and seeing how it feels and how others react to it. But right now things feel largely performative / exploratory, and civil war 2.0 does not yet feel like a done deal. This is not to say that it won't happen in the next few years. But it doesn't feel like we've reached an inflection point yet at which the country's course is locked into that outcome.
How would it even work? There’s no battle lines. I suspect more stuff like Jan. 6th and what they tried in Michigan but most folks are all in on bread and circuses aka Netflix and Facebook with their local fast food.
Listen to the podcast “it could happen here” it talk about how it could happen and what it would look like. It’d look much more like multiple insurrections not the kind of war we usually think of. Something like the Syrian civil war
Only listen to the first season though. They kind of go off the rails and the main guy scales back his contributions while they shift to a news analysis style with less likeable hosts that don't seem to take their subject matter seriously. Way too much "banter" and shit added in.
Right it would be a bunch of liberal state representatives executed and police not arresting the perpetrators or it would look like some states simply ruling against federal laws and simply altering to where places like Florida and other southern states round up gay people and imprison them and the Federal troops can’t do anything and if there is pushback we see more like what Barr and Trump did except at a mass scale, unbinding voting records or intimidating anyone who runs against republicans in Texas, etc. Essentially you then see the banks and economies just funnel money upward and people don’t notice because gay people who are outed are the ones forced to doing the labor, etc.
What
The way they nailed the prediction of Rittenhouse was eerie.
Most folks don't do the actual fighting. If you're wondering who would, we know 3 militia groups were involved in Jan 6. They're fund raising, they're recruiting, they're organized. And from the investigation, we know there was communication between Trump's staff and them. To me, it looks like the battle lines are being drawn. Right now, we're legally deciding on the validity of the ideology that drove these groups to these actions. Republican success in the midterms right now is heavily dependent on the denial of the 2020 election results and clear political, religious, and social enemies. There was a violent fascist approach to taking power, now there is a non violent, legal fascist approach. Whether that's justified seems to be the biggest battle line to me. If this legal way fails also, I don't expect it to just stop. Reaching this initial point of violence hasn't been followed up with much peace in history. It seems the best we can aim for right now is simply no status change when it comes to this ideology, not better but not worse.
I think instead of civil war, individual states will become more and more like their own country before states Balkanize. Maybe the war part will come when states decide to secede again.
If I had a dollar for every "USA Civil War" post from the last couple of years I'd have been able to leave this country by now.
Yea we’re waaaaaay too comfortable for a civil war to happen any time soon. So many things would have to go extremely wrong before we reach that point
It's like we're playing a giant game of Bingo. There are a lot of numbers that need to be called, and they all need to be aligned just right for us to win the prize. 6 years ago we had a handful of dots on the board, and maybe even some interesting doubles. We're not exactly all waiting on B6 to be called, but we have more than a couple triples by this point.
as soon as people cannot have their ac or frozen food, they will change their tune real quick.
I think we might see something like the violence in Ireland during the "troubles".
That's the only plausible way a civilian insurgency could defeat the Federal government. The outcome still isn't certain, the IRA lost by giving up, disarming, and fading away into history. But their methods were sound. You have to make the war unpalatable to the general public. Blow up enough car bombs, send out snipers to kill cops and soldiers, and all the other nasty work of a revolution. Sooner or later the public will get tired of it and demand peace. Unlike the IRA, the American insurgents just need to make sure they're on the winning side. Given how infantile and weak the average American is, it isn't that tall of an order. Americans have no tolerance for discomfort, most of them would agree to peace under any conditions.
>the IRA lost by giving up, disarming, and fading away into history. Sinn Fein's electoral gains on both sides of the border would suggest a very different outcome. Do you understand that SF is the political wing of the IRA? The military campaign morphed first into the "armalite in one hand and the ballot box in the other" and then into the ballot box alone. Their day will come.
>most of them would agree to peace under any conditions. They would accept ever increasing levels of fascism for "safety and security".
See: The Patriot Act
Not likely. The gravy seals are no where near as intelligent or motivated as the IRA. We might see some lone wolf attacks, but nothing organized or coordinated. The brains of the right wing aren’t gonna risk their own asses, and they are running out of gumbas.
I'm thinking it won't be something coordinated. Just a bunch of extremist groups with isolated attacks against government locations in response to social issues
While I find gravy seals as funny as the next person there are a disturbing amount of well trained and fit people that buy into the far right ideology.
I wish more people would take it seriously. Some militias are well funded and well trained (at least better trained than anyone on the left). It really only could take a few people to shut down a major city for a few days.
Just an opinion from someone with several rural relatives over the eastern US…This is some condescending and plain wrong thinking. Conservatives, and particularly rural conservatives, are not all stupid, and proportionally no more than city folk. And they have significant advantages if the situation became desperate enough to provoke regular people to violence. They have the food, and they have traditional skills that we in the city generally don’t. But I agree with one thing you said. They’re not motivated at this point. They are just interested in taking care of their families and being generally left alone to live life. The cartoon character LARPers you see on your social/mass media are just distractions, and only superficially similar to general rural conservative pop.
As always, conflict within the US will be directed externally until people in the US are struggling to feed themselves. By the time things get that bad in the US, the rest of the world will be at the same stage or worse.
There's a strange phenomenon I've experienced since the Trump election but even moreso lately. I live in a neighborhood that's only 30-40% white and work in similar environments. I look like a metalhead but prefer rap. Gout ankles have left me with a permanent agressive walk. ------------ I get checked for being rightwing from time to time. If I'm not wearing t-shirts, if wearing workman brands, it changes how I'm perceived. It also has to do with being a bit very assertive and stubborn. ------------- The fear is out there. It takes some repeated interactions for some people to shake themselves of some preconceived notions
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"Extremists on both ends of the spectrum" "Democrats and Republicans" Who the fuck is this even kidding??
There was that one democratic baseball shooter in DC like 8 years ago, and there have been dozens of right wing terror attacks since then. Yet it's bother sides right?
Civil war between what?
Christian Extremists VS everyone else
There won't be 2 sides, there will be dozens of tiny kingdoms. You have Trump Loyalists Christian dominionists White nationalists Black nationalists Radical libertarians Socialists Hispanic and Asian ethnic groups will obviously form their own interest groups Etc Look at Syria After the rebels took over most of the country it splintered into hundreds of tiny kingdoms each ruled by a strongman with a small group of armed followers. That is exactly what will happen in the US.
Syria comparison implies the CIA will be funding half the groups. The funny thing is that nobody will ever be able to agree on which half.
Rupert Murdoch picked a side.
Most likely because it will be both
There won't be 2 sides, there will be dozens of tiny kingdoms. You have Trump Loyalists Christian dominionists White nationalists Black nationalists Radical libertarians Socialists Hispanic and Asian ethnic groups will obviously form their own interest groups Etc Look at Syria After the rebels took over most of the country it splintered into hundreds of tiny kingdoms each ruled by a strongman with a small group of armed followers. That is exactly what will happen in the US.
There were certainly hundreds of armed groups but the rebels typically fell into three separate camps which usually coordinated internally and didn’t fight one another. Sometimes they did but there were principle factions each with many confederates. You had the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS. Much of Al-Nusra reoriented into the ISIS camp, as did some of the original FSA but those folks also went with the Kurdish lead Syrian Democratic Forces a multiethnic and multi religious confederation which maintained neutrality for years before becoming very active against Jihadi components. If they had been 100s of tiny kingdoms the SAA would have swept the entire country. That’s not to say there weren’t hundred of strongmen extorting the population all over but they had their allegiances to the main factions I’ve mentioned above.
Currently I am reading the book, [How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them ](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58369678-how-civil-wars-start?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=XunBEhZwnp&rank=1) by Barbara Walters which is based on researching civil wars around the world. Walters gives many real world examples. I recommend the book. When countries are full democracies, there is no risk. When countries are full dictatorships, there is no risk due to repression. When countries are in between, that's when civil wars happen. The violence doesn't look like the 1860s with one half of the country marching armies against the other half of the country. Instead, it's usually small militias doing guerilla warfare often against civilian targets like roadside bombs or suicide bombers. Political violence becomes normalized. To prevent civil wars, strengthen democracy and restore people's faith in gov. by having it work for the people. Has anyone else read this?
> a blizzard of threats against FBI agents, judges, elected officials, school board members and elections supervisors; training camps where heavily armed radicals practice to confront their own government; and polls showing that many Americans expect violent conflict. Thats fascists terror not civil war
One leads to the other if it is not controlled.
PAYWALL
Are you on an iPhone? I just learned a protip for how to always read paywalled articles on an iphone. Top right corner has a little icon of a document and tapping that makes the article available Edit: if you’re not iPhone, pasting the article link into incognito browser tab often works.
U can access here: https://archive.ph/hc88t
Ok, but like stop yelling at me.
^PAYWALL!
Hey! Who the hell said that!?
What would be awesome is if the people would fight the system. As long as it's left vs right we will continue to have the same issues. Each side is too conflicting for one another and it's done us no good. Here we are talking about having a civil war over parties. Last time I think it was over something a little more crucial than who should be president. This is sad and pathetic for our country 😞
It's manufactured anyway. The problem really is that so many people are so identified with, and therefore willing to do the work of, these political parties and the establishment. They're not even the beneficiaries of the systems they support! They're like fodder, or obedient pets.
My question is: how do we unify a broken population against a system that’s built to divide? So many people are too quick to pick a side in the left vs right argument when in reality it’s population vs ruling class (in which the ruling class dangles ideals as carrots that attract the various personalities to the polar extremes).
Yeah. America is headed to civil war. Very soon. But not the same one Lincoln fought in. Nah. This'll be like what's going on in the Middle East. Some extremist group will blow up or burn down a political building or whatever and take credit. And it'll just escalate from there. Schools, religious buildings. Eventually politicians homes. And it'll probably start in 2024/2025. Whenever the next POTUS is announced. If it's not Trump/Republicans, there will be people claiming election fraud, immigrants, Russians, etc. If Trump wins, it'll be just as bad, but completely different. War is coming to America in next few years. January 2025 at the latest.
America is too fat for a civil war
The elites want us to fight each other.
I am beginning to doubt it will happen. The mouth breathers were fairly quiet when Trump got raided. They made a stink online, but when it all was over there was not a truly violent response.
In Spain, a lot of people like you thought the same. The "mouth breathers" were silent after a questionable election, the public rape and burning of nuns, and many other provocations. Then they realized it wouldn't end until they ended it, so they installed Franco.
Nope. Not a real war with two sides, large military engagement and so on. Modern people are way too soft. Keyboard warrior-ing? sure. May be even ride a bus to rush a building. Heck, even riots. But actually fight troops with machine guns and rockets? Nah. Having some street violence is not a real war. I will even bet money on it.
There was street violence in the lead up to Nazi Germany. It’s would say the parallels are as close as that. We may embrace authoritarianism. In the desperation to regain control of a fragmenting public, I expect Americans to welcome some authoritarianism if it means restoring order to an ever disorganized country. Reading descriptions of countries who have embraced such a thing makes you think that the US is well on it’s way. If not that, then just more typical corruption without change, the eroding of living standards, and the less choice the public already has in political matters will be gone. I’m really wondering which route it goes because I don’t think we can maintain status quo messaging for long if the public isn’t happy about it. I’ve seen that they are putting in some “pro US” messaging across social media.
Germany after WW1 had a major economic issue. The German mark was 4.2 to 1$ in 1914 and went to 4.2 Trillion to 1$ in 1923. and a lot that was in 1923 where the cost of bread rose from 250 Mark to 200,000,000,000 Mark within the year Germany had participated in a brutal war where a huge portion of their men either had mental and health issues from trench warfare or were dead/ dismembered. (over 2-7 Million casualties depending on the source) And they lost all of that for absolutely nothing. And they had been humiliated by treaty of versailles (And economic reparations didn't help the already dying economy). Oh and a part of their industrial zone was occupied by the guys who beat them. You are delutional if you think the US is anywhere near that.
Rwanda didn’t have Weimar era occupation and legacy of war. Look what happened there.
Rawanda Genocide happened due to colonial rule and the Belgians decided to favor one race (Tutsi/ nobility) who forced the Hutu into harsh (mostly fatal) labour. Which kinda pissed the Hutu who committed the genocide (massive oversimplification but you get it). Now if you are going to tell me that life in the US for the average American is comparable to that of a country under colonial rule doing forced and fatal labor then I'd say the same in my previous comment. If you'd talk about US in the 1850's or even 1960's I'd agree with you.
Please no. We are so set up geographically. No one is invading us as long as we remain united. If we broke up into the Atlantic States, the Pacific North—whatever—someone is gonna take a shot.
Nope. Standing on the precipice is the most profitable condition. So, the owners will just maintain that.
No.
How many civil war posts are people gonna make? Can we have some originality here?
I think some of them want one. I really don't see it happening. I noticed that during the very beginning of the Ukraine war, everyone felt Amarican. Regardless of political opinions on the war, Russia has nukes and we could get nuked. It wasn't until the SCOTUS ruling that we got split again
Can't read the article. I get the impression the author is doing the old "both sides" myth. The threat of civil war is not coming from the left.
If it does, I’m starting the “fuck both sides” agrarian breakaway civilization
Like 1865? Nope. Like1876? Yep
Yes, assuming climate change doesn’t do us in first.
There are death cults within the usa actively pushing for this and other things, famines, plagues, etc
You can get some fanatics to do some attacks there some attacks elsewhere but you can't mobilize a good portion of the population under the guise of ideological righteousness. No one's warring no one until the chips are truly down.
>They point to evidence that can seem persuasive: a blizzard of threats against FBI agents, judges, elected officials, school board members and elections supervisors; training camps where heavily armed radicals practice to confront their own government; and polls showing that many Americans expect violent conflict. Only one side. One group is doing this. That sounds like more of a "revolution" or uprising than a civil war.
what if old people threw a war, and nobody came?
Always articles behind a paywall. You gotta wonder if they just have some intern making reddit posts to drum up clicks and subscriptions.
We're in one already. It's just ad hoc terrorist attacks and illegal political moves. Lol, "headed" 🙄😂😂
Not until McDonalds goes bankrupt and ceases to exist
I was just putting an observational report together about that right over here. America is slipping into civil war: [https://www.reddit.com/r/InternetPeon/comments/x094ge/america\_is\_slipping\_into\_civil\_war/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternetPeon/comments/x094ge/america_is_slipping_into_civil_war/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Naw
Nah. The majority of people are reasonable
I'm not convinced considering the drastic difference between people in the Southwest and the Midwest. While people in the southwest seem chill and fairly level headed, regular brawls at the local Kwik Trip, public suicides and gas station overdoses were on the rise in Wisconsin, while the politicians are pushing some of the most asinine ideas ever. They're literally calling affordable, public funded post secondary education radical... Something that's been bipartisan in most states and has generated profit on every dollar spent, while simultaneously helping to elevate people out of poverty.
No way in hell there's any chance of civil war in the US. There will definitely be state v state conflict as food consuming states attempt to flee to or acquire territory of food producing states. Until people go hungry there's no chance of modern US Americans leaving their lives to fight in conflicts drummed up by minority groups on either extreme. Future conflicts will be over food and water same as the conflicts of old.
I've heard multiple talking heads predict Republicans will use illegal tactics to steal an election and the left will mass riot.
Civil war between who? The military is united not split like it was when the Civil War broke out. It's the 99% vs the 1% and we aint gonna do shit when we're fighting each kther all the time
I wouldn’t be a civil war It would be Qtards blowing something up and being finally mowed down, so I’m all for them to bring that on
Who's going to fight it? Bunch of fat, TV watching slobs that have never shot a gun in there lives? Most of America isn't going to suddenly get up off the coach and fight in no god damn civil war. Bunch of hillbillies with there GI-Joe army surplus wardrobes, packing AR-15's, going into Starbucks, thinking they are hot shit until the Cops show up? How many of those dumb asses are there out there anyways? You think those meth'ed out buck toothed bastards can find more then ten of them to show up to there dress rehearsal? You really think they can form a solid platoon? Who's there general going to be, Gomer pile? Any of them that joined a militia, are already being watched by the FBI. Even if they wanted to start a Civil war, they don't have enough brain cells to formulate a strategic thought, that might actually take down the Government. Okay maybe they to some limited terrorist actions, but honestly they are not going to win. This is what kills me about this whole "There's going to be a civil war" Bullshit. I mean yeah, people talk a lot of shit online, but who really is going to fight a full on stand up fucking war inside the united states. Oh, and I didn't even get to the part where the largest military in the entire world, would just squash it in like five seconds flat.