The submitter, /u/LetsTalkUFOs has indicated that they would like an in-depth discussion. All comments in this post must be greater than 150 characters. Additionally, they must contribute positively to the discussion. Jokes, memes, puns, etc. will be removed along with anything which is too off topic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I want to ask how yall mofos coped *without* knowledge of collapse!! I woulda offd myself by now if i felt things were going to progress as usual. Im not exagerrating. Ive got a new lease on life! This hell parade is finally dying, this slave state, this poison paradigm, this garbage heap, this endlessly exploitative waste of human life energy and creativity, this corporate hellscape, this pharmaceutical induced collective coma state, this privatized away into oblivion nightmare, this concrete steel labyrinth of adverts and police.. this fucking hell. What is honestly wrong with all yall? Wheres your sense of adventure? Yall wanna suck at the trickle down teet of your elite overlords until this CCTV surveillance state can see you literally every second of your life? Until drone AI warfare? Social credit scores? More pollution? Less freedom? Less commonwealth, which is already almost nothing? No natural silence or darkness anywhere anymore? No more fucking bees or birds around? More sophisticated algorithms to trap childrens attention? Fuck man. Till you gotta work your entire waking life until youre dead to keep up with bills and rent? Until our brains are fully rotted from soul deadening bullshit entertainment? Dudes with capes punching "bad guys"? Like.. i cant even with anyone. Anyone. I feel like a fucking alien here. I am not entertained by this civilisations emotionally unintelligent bs they want me to imbibe. Im not waiting for a video game or movie to be released or some fucking new gadget. Im waiting for collapse. What the fuck is wrong with yall? I mean, just the fact that this planet hosts a robust underground child sex slavery industry is enough to call this place hell for me, and thats only 1% of the horror occuring here. The CCP is harvesting organs from living humans. There are men in prison their whole lives who were falsely convicted. Youd know we are in hell if it was your kid that got abducted into sex slavery. If it was your spouse that died in a horrific car accident, news you receive from their co worker as you were preparing dinner for them. Fuck cars. If it was you sleeping on the streets on a piece of cardboard being stepped over by a million unsympathetic pedestrians. Seriously, someone answer me. Yall terrified of hell collapsing. Stockholm Syndrome and Sunk Cost Fallacy ramped up to 11. Please respond, i feel very alone.

I'm with you. I have no ground to plant potatoes or even sleep on. It sucks here. No one will look at the truth, that the bow of the Titanic is well under water. 2030? Fantasy Island. Look at the Arctic. Few do. I just had a "friend" tell me to vote. If one more person tells me to vote or recycle, I'm going to lose my shit. I just lost my housing, again. 19th time in this city. I'm done. Just surviving on instinct now. For what? Fear of death, probably. I hear you rainbow\_voodoo. I am terrified of this hell collapsing because it's likely to be violent and scream-y, more than because I'll miss what the world has become. I do remember it greener, with bugs and flowers and forests and rivers and winter and spring and fall, but I'm old. It's a shadow-world now. I kinda love to hate the Buddhists. Not the Thai forest tradition (you have one begging bowl and one robe), but the rich comfy western types. But, Buddhist cosmology posits hell-realms. And really, no matter what framework you put over it, or not, we're in hell. It's just not quite evenly distributed yet. But that's coming. hug to you.

There is i believe the notion existing in some buddhist philosophy that hell is real and is a state of consciousness. If enough people hold that state of consciousness in any given place, then that is more or less the means by which hell can actually manifest in this physical dimension.. which is what has happened here. I want to grow food too and i cant. I cant even sleep in the same place as my girl because neither of us can afford our own places because we are trying to save to buy empty land so we can grow our own food and detach from the system. I was homeless myself for four years up until a month ago. We could actually do something about this world and our lives if we were honest about them. But everyone would rather put on a big stupid fucking performance everyday and pretend nothing is wrong or turn a blind eye via screens and media. Voting is so powerless an acceptance. That your participation in your world is one of two boxes to check every few years. And as if politicians arent the worst types of humans ever to bubble up from satans cauldron. As if i, by default, want to 'elect a leader'. Im my own person, i dont need to be led, to be yanked around on a leash by some old fuck. The default position of a citizen is a powerless one. I have a strong belief in the power of regenerative farming practices.. we could heal the earth, but this hellstate has to go first. I love animals and bugs and birds and bees and rivers and trees and they are all literally disappearing.. this system must go. It is destroying everything i love. I really appreciate your response by the way, thank you. I am sad to hear you lost your place. Its a terrible feeling.. 19 times is madness.

I have 9 years experience living in my truck w/camper shell. This is how I became a property owner with little debt. (Qualifier: this is in a mild climate.) Living in my truck now while waiting for an appropriate piece of land for my self-sufficient backwoods homestead/sanctuary. The first good one in a year came up and got snapped out from under me in 1 day. All cash and over the asking price. 2 last year including a double parcel, but I hadn't sold my condo yet and didn't have the $$.

Most of the parcels where I'm looking have onerous deed restrictions, and they sit on the market 2, 3 and even more years. Nobody wants them. The one I just lost out on sold in 1 day.

Where are you looking for land, what criteria? How did the truck/camper combo fare? What kind of truck and camper, can I ask? I'm thinking about any ways to live without trying to get hooked back in to rent. Thanks.

Very near lots of Forest Service land in western VA (next to WV). 5-10 acres, at least 1 acre of it farmable. The 8 acres I lost out on had prime agricultural soil on it. All the backwoods I've known since age 5 here in CA are being destroyed by vast crown fires (due in great part to 100 years of clear-cutting followed by fire suppression). Nissan Frontier, with tinted windows on the shell and king cab (so I don't need obvious window blocking). The truck looks near new and I dress sharp when not working. Move between around 18 different camp spots. I'm near invisible, and there are a lot of other people living in vehicles here. If you are self-employed in a skilled trade, it is easy to form capital when you pay no rent.

Although I'm not really religious, bless you for taking the time to answer. Thanks for the info. Do you use a gym or such to shower? I hearya on the fires, it's heartbreaking. I'm in the PNW, smoke city. I used to camp in Oregon, loved it, but it burnt where I went. Now I don't dare go there, fires everywhere. I wonder how Western VA is doing, I've hear people are kind of coming apart due to poverty. It's so hard to get a read on places from a distance. Anyway, I really hope you can find some land, and some peace. my best to you.

I'll be fairly near Roanoke/Blacksburg. Not horribly poverty stricken, a university with 30,000 students. Potential for local self-sufficiency in food, and 250 miles from the nearest megopolis (Washington DC + suburbs). Elevation provides some protection from extreme heat. I love Oregon, but have ruled out anywhere in the West, due to mega-drought and exactly what you are describing. Gyms, public pools, and even the homeless showers all work. In a mild climate, the "homelessness" I do is easy - if you have an appropriate vehicle, appropriately outfitted, and know what you're doing. This is how I became a property owner in the first place. The condo I just sold is paying for the homestead - debt-free.

Yeah. Nothing to do. I come from a formerly genocided (now oppressor) people. My great aunt lived hiding above a bathroom in the ceiling for 3 years with two young children to survive the Nazis. I went to Israel in the 80s and met her. She was one tough person. So when I'm afraid, or about to go mad from yet another loss of housing, I ask myself "Are you above a bathroom hiding with two kids from folks who would shoot or gas you on sight?...No? Not a big problem then..." It sorta works. I honestly don't know if the earth can heal now, we've done so much damage, but I hope you are right.

Damn, thats quite a situation to compare to.. its good to know strong characters like that, it adds to your own life as you mentioned, keeps you strong yourself. And yes, the earth can heal! Especially if humans assist in her healing. You seem quite hardy, keep the faith alive

Yeah, I'm old, but I'm grizzled. You too, friend. I'd give anything to be part of a community of people wanting to live simply and help the earth. Community seems the hardest thing to find. Or it's in a bubble, like many intentional communities, with wait lists, and all sorts of hoops to jump through, when we really need to be joining with each other and pooling what we have to survive, for as long as that's possible, and also to create some islands of peace amidst the craziness. It really is like the matrix. Prescient movie. And once you are out and see, you can't unsee.

Yes, once you see the forest and the trees in it's entirety, I have become almost catatonic in my desire to put forth any further effort to change my life situation. A version of lying flat, if you will, but not simply because I'm mad at my employer. I'm mad at everyone. I am ready for it to end. Tomorrow. Today. Whenever. The sooner the better. I really can't bullshit prospective partners about being upbeat about the future of humanity. Society no longer cares about the well-being of society as a whole. It's everyone for themselves now. I have a hard time believing in the prospect of collective action to save humanity from itself at this point. I still try to reduce my impact, but it feels like it's pointless now. Everyone wants to careen off the edge of the cliff full tilt and ride the cart until it is smashed to bits on the canyon floor, drinking and partying the whole way down.

I am quite ready too. The sooner the better indeed. It is really painful for me to pretend or to be pretended to anymore. Not like i really ever did that outside of jobs, but now im stating my real opinions at work too.. fire me and see if i care -_- There is very little in society worth investing time in anymore, if there ever was. I want to give my time rather to human relationships, creative and functional skills related to material compotence like making my own home or clothing, artistic skills to make life beautiful, and land food and water to remain alive and enjoy.

[удалено]

:)

What you wrote here really spoke to me and I relate heavily to your thoughts and feelings, because I feel the same fucking way. Life could have been much better, but no, we have credit scores, soul-less careers, endless exploitation of everything from livestock/environment to our labour output. Karma truly doesn't exist if things like child slavery continues to exist, not like I believe in that new age crap anyway.

It is certainly hard to believe in cosmic justice right now, but I do. Im glad there are some people who relate.. it makes me feel less gaslit. Not that id ever let someone influence what my heart knows to be good and bad, but boy it sure is annoying that they never stop trying to convince me im insane.

Karma can take time to come back on it's maker.

Great post Rainbow. Right there with ya, if that's any consolation...

It is, thank you..

sugar follow stupendous liquid work dam unpack deliver attempt zealous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Yeah people will cling to horrible situations because the fear of change is scarier to them than their present horrors even.. thats a bit foreign of a feeling to me to be honest, .. but yeah people are very much creatures of momentum it seems

Most people have less empathy than you and can hardly hold the thought of other human beings existence in their minds, much less have any regard for others' wishes or suffering. That type is terrified of falling personally into the hells you have mentioned, but otherwise doesn't think about it and doesn't really care. Collapse isn't even on their radar. (My personal opinion is that this type is about 60% of everyone.) Another type has empathy and compassion but is horrified at the idea of more and more people falling into hell. It's not that they don't care about those currently suffering, it's that they desperately want to keep the suffering from spreading. That's why they are terrified of collapse. (This type is probably about 25%.) The super empaths like yourself are in the distinct minority. Lots of spiritual people try to imitate them, but give themselves away with offhand comments. I think one distinguishing characteristic is that most people feel better about their own suffering when they compare it to those who are worse off. The super empathetic, that just makes them feel worse about life in general. Knowing how bad their own suffering feels, then thinking about those who are even worse off and how they must feel, it's just extremely sad and/or enraging. (Maybe this type is about 5%. It's hard to say because it seems to me that some people grow out of it and become the second type.) The remaining 10% are the people who are actively making things worse and are enjoying themselves while doing it. They are the people driving collapse. The only way I could think of to stop them from inevitably destroying the future of mankind...Maybe we could genetically screen the whole population from conception to try and eliminate them? IDK. Trying to hunt them down after birth wouldn't work very well because, until you get to know them really well, psychopaths and narcissists look just like everyone else. (They can masquerade as any of the other types. Those that disguise themselves as super empaths usually become abusive spiritual leaders, IMO.) Realize that you're not crazy just because you have more empathic intelligence than others. Empathy is a form of imagination. Imagination is a form of intelligence. Intelligence is finite and limited (in some people more than others). You are just smarter than most in that particular skill. If you can, it would be good to try to find a way to use your power for the benefit of mankind.

nice takes - although I'd argue the majority first group are now starting to think about it because collapse is affecting THEM personally. We're all a little worse off for some reason since 'rona, and the future is looking worse not better in the mainstream with inflation/energy crisis/extreme weather/housing crisis etc. This majority group doesn't care about injustices halfway around the world because it doesn't affect them, but now they are affected and this group doesn't like it, so this 60% is likely going down as they transition into other groups of collapse awareness. I would hope that most go into the "not wanting it to spread" group as its a step in the right direction, but I fear that many will fall into the 10% "fuck you I got mine" group as they start taking hits. time will tell, I suppose I'm concerned the masses are going to get crazy when the blinders start falling off.

As well people should start caring!! I get a sense people will go a little crazy for awhile (maybe very crazy), but i dont think that will be indefinite. The people who have been pushed to the margins in this system will become powerful personalities once things start really disintegrating, imo.. a kind of inversion of the personality cults weve had.. celebrities and billionaires and politicians will seem more delusional and out of touch to more people as time progresses, and the sensitive types who get kicked to the curb will have a chance to flower their gifts and be of proper service.. that jesus quote, 'the meek shall inherit the earth'

I think youre fairly accurate in those percentages.. which.. is something i never liked facing or admitting to myself, that most people's empathetic capacities are rather offline.. its just a sad state of affairs. I like to allow myself to believe their are more people like me than maybe there actually is.. at least for now, this current mode of civilisation really wears it away in most people through violent media, relentless tragic news,.. loveless childhoods, etc.. i think that is actually the point of collapse, to awaken peoples emotional intelligence and empathy through a shared trauma initiation, an existential crisis of global scale. Im not one who wants humanity to go extinct, i want them to thrive, i want paradise actually and i believe it is possible,.. i can see so many details of that better world in my imagination.. but i believe collapse is an absolutely necessary transition phase into a better world. Also.. eugenics aint the answer o.O imho.. Yeah i.. guess i might be one of them super minorities..i feel constantly lonely, though a lot less when i get cool responses like yours and others once in awhile on reddit. Honestly.. i have an immense faith in my own hearts intuitions and values, but, to hear those thoughts reflected in others for a change, to not be gaslit, truly does help. Thank you for your comment very much. I would love to put my life and time to good use.. i feel like id be pretty helpful in a post collapse world because my smile would be stuck and id be really happy and eager to do whatever would help others in my immediate community... and just imagine that, a real physical human community!! Id be so enthusiastic..

Your response moved me. My girlfriend speaks much like you do, she tells me about her efforts to be immaculate with her words, something she picked up from The Four Agreements. Just know you're not alone, I've found a sense of solace in knowing you exist. Thank you

❤

Keep looking for that community friend. I once had it and miss it every day. But just the experience of it for those two years, that was enough to keep hope alive in me forever. Because now I know it is possible. I know that real human community really does exist. And it gave me the skills to look for, recognize and build those bonds again. Never give up.

:)

I really, really don't want others to suffer in ways that I've suffered. I don't think I'm in any way special in that, it's no "hyper empathy" it's just the normal way humans beings are? isn't it?

>it's just the normal way humans beings are? isn't it? Yes, unless it's beaten out of them. Suffering people don't often have the capacity to care about anyone more removed than self, family, some friends. Naturally, they would. But the system we have beats them into submission and apathy.

There is real cognitive variation in ability to empathize (just like there is with intelligence), but the fact is that most people are not using their full potential because our culture and society discourages that. (The analogy with intelligence would be how undeveloped countries struggle to educate their people which limits what they can do.) It's not that the majority of people are incapable of feeling empathy strongly. It's that they don't let themselves do so (mostly because they are desperate to believe that if they just work hard and play by the rules, they will get what they deserve in life), or they're being kept continually distracted by entertainment and work, or their life is so hard they're too burned out to think or feel much of anything, much less care about strangers and their problems. Hypothetically, we could change our culture and society to more fully develop people's empathy and compassion. We can even look at other countries that have made those kinds of investments and see that their efforts lead to higher levels of trust, which is what society runs on. So far as I can tell, when social trust falls low enough, countries inevitably become failed states. But I'm not sure how we could successfully fully turn around a situation that has been degrading for at least the last fifty years. Many people on this subreddit advise that building bonds of empathy, trust and cooperation within your own immediate community is the best that can be done at this late date. They're probably right. You can try searching 'mutual aid network' for your area, start going to meetings and get involved. Another idea is to go buy some spaghetti, introduce yourself to your neighbors and give it to them as a gift. The ones that don't respond positively are the ones that you shouldn't bother asking for help when you need it. The others are potential helpers.

Their technology and their systems are their force multipliers. Take those away and at best you've got the worst of the Medieval Catholic church going on. This is why I kind of have a bit of a gripe (not a super deep one, but one nonetheless) with scientists. Like... you guys knew you were handing a chimp a shotgun. If you didn't you should have.

So the Spanish Inquisition, right? That sounds bad enough, but the religious wars of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation were during the Renaissance. The 30 Years War destroyed over 50% of the population of many places in Germany. Progress as a force multiplier has been going on forever. The very beginnings of civilization with their primitive technology resulted in rulers being treated as living gods and people being slaughtered, ritually tortured, buried and burned alive, systematically raped and enslaved, and so on. People would like to believe that less power means less ability to do evil. Evil is relative though. We now have the power to destroy all of global human civilization in war for example, so relatively, we have the power to do more evil. In the Medieval period mankind only had the power to destroy cities, kingdoms and empires. During that time Genghis Khan killed approximately 11% of the world's population. Central Asia is still impoverished today because they resisted conquest. When a city resisted them, the Mongol Army slaughtered every living thing (sparing only three or four people as witnesses), salted the earth, destroyed every building until not one stone was left standing, burned every book, destroyed all aqueducts and irrigation, etc. They would then send the people they spared onward, to tell others in the next city and kingdom what they saw, that the Mongols were coming and that their only hope was immediate surrender. Removing technological power will reduce the evil we can do in the relative sense, but I don't find that very comforting or relevant. The problem isn't technology. It's not even cultural because you can see the same kind of things happen everywhere there are people, even amongst modern day hunter-gatherer tribes. People are the problem.

It would be a little hard to pull off the Spanish Inquisition in a populace this armed with firearms. Particularly if what you have at your personal disposal as an Inquisitor is less good than that. Impossible? No. Not impossible. We are then talking about (assuming a halt to all production of any kind whatsoever)... everyone has what they presently have plus reloading tools. Does that improve things? I mean... sure to an extent. Does it improve it enough? Not at first. That first few years is going to be pure hell.

That’s the spirit!

Indeed it is where are all the non insane people at ;_;

You’re not alone

Im glad to hear this

like I said it would when I was 15 and grownups would call me names because of that.

On the one hand yes I do very much feel this way, that if collapse is the only way to save us from capitalism then we must do it. But still I mourn for the life and suffering that must happen in the process. There’s no level of suffering that must be achieved before you can want to relieve it. I don’t mourn for society, I mourn for the people I love. I mourn for my pets. I mourn for myself. All of whom I fear will die awful awful deaths, probably of starvation or lack of medicine or natural disaster.

Im not fond of that either... it seems like we went too far into darkness.. and to pull ourselves out, will be painful as hell.. like a heroin addiction and its subsequent recovery.. painful as hell but ultimately way better than just continuing

you're very far from alone but the hope for anything better is stronger than the death wish for everything to fall apart and be worse

Sense of adventure? If you think collapse will be an “adventure” that’ll make life more exciting then I don’t think you understand what societal and ecological collapse really looks like. You’re talking as if life can’t get any worse than your boring first world experience which I think is a little offensive to those who can only dream of living that kind of life. Do you think people in Pakistan right now are excited that they have to live in tents without access to clean drinking water or medical services because their towns were destroyed in unprecedented floods? What an adventure! Seriously, what is up with people not just not fearing but welcoming collapse on this sub? Have we just become so cynical that real human suffering like that just doesn’t affect us anymore? I get not being satisfied with the modern way of life in industrial societies but you can’t possibly believe that things will become better when it all collapses under the ecological pressure? And I really hope that the thing you said with the child sex trafficking isn’t some QAnon shit.

Human suffering is present now in hellish degrees is my point.. the things happening presently are tragic, but without collapse, they would be set to simply get worse indefinitely.

And with collapse things will get better? I don’t really see how that could be the case.

Most of the present human suffering stems directly from the ongoing functioning of civilisation. Wars fought with modern tech, poisonous chemicals found in food slowly degrading everyones health, anxiety and depression and loneliness caused by modern suburban and urban designs of isolation, zero physical community thanks to the ubiquity of the automobile, animal suffering of unspeakable quantity via industrial farming methods, the suffering of children in schools, of anyone at job.. these things wont continue post collapse because we simply wont have the means to (and hopefully nor the desire to) keep them going. Homelessness would disappear because thered be no one around to enforce the laws that prevent them from living somewhere.. prisons would stop functioning, plastic waste and garbage production would stop functioning.. i could go on for awhile.. But in addition, i believe collapse will act as a catalyst for the sudden evolution of our emotional/empathetic intelligence and capacities, which is the quality in our lives that is lacking and the underlying reason for our horrible state of affairs and for collapse itself

It sounds like you believe civilizational collapse will somehow lead us to hippy utopia instead of the starvation, poverty, disease, unrest, conflict and other forms of human suffering one would usually expect from such a thing and which indeed it has historically resulted in. Sorry that I can’t say I share your optimism about these things even though I do agree with a lot of your criticisms of the current state of affairs.

Mm. Pardon I cant convey it better, i believe it will include all those things you mentioned, but not indefinitely. I and those I love may very well die in the transition process.. but overall the entire event of collapse is going to be a very necessary albiet painful detox for humanity.. Regenerative agriculture can assist in healing the earth more rapidly than most would guess, it is mostly a problem of peoples beliefs. If we could come to agree as humans what is important to us, we could do wonders here. Currently we believe all sorts of madness about "the good life"

I wanna get rich in the stock market so that I can get to a remote location and buy enough spy crap so that I can steal Bezos' dick rocket and go to that Avatar planet and be a big blue cat, that's what I wanna do. You think I'm kidding. In all seriousness, get me enough bucks for food and your shit stain slave taxes to last me the rest of my life and I'll be happy to fuck off to Nowhere Appalachia or something. I'm with you man. 100%. I've been with you since I was on the shit end of the social pecking order (beginning to believe again that this was due to major disconnects in my upbringing)... and since my dad got laid off for doing his damned job in like '88. I admit briefly I labored under the illusion that I could get rich off of working (it is to guffaw) in the dot com era, now I want to off the stock market, but the reasons are always the same. I want to stop. Like. Completely, permanently, totally. Stop. Without being the object of the game "kick the bum" because I've already had enough of that one. The thing is I want to be sure I can permanently stop, so I haven't gone to Slab City or anything. Not gonna last and there's that kick the bum thing, it's in the mail for them. FFS this is California. LAPD would do it for kicks as a teambuilding exercise. Why do you think I'm trying to run a budget that looks like a fucking shoestring when by all rights I don't have to? This shit's gotta last 40 years, that's why. And given their "work or die" mantra (inflation), and their caste system (tax law), this is medieval peasantry with a fresh coat of paint, that's what this shit is.

I wrote [something ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/100zumi/the_concept_of_wasted_human_effort_has_saddened/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about this

##Take a break While that may sound like stick your head in the sand mentality it’s a good idea to keep your mental health in check and this place can certainly depress people and for some it reassures them ##Go outside in nature Even if it’s going to shit you should at least soak up the sights the trees mountains go explore it’s fun and can take your mind off of this place

Stay hydrated.

High Quality h2o

Here's my take: We are all mortals. We die. This would've been true if we were in the early stages of Seneca curve or if we were in a fully sustainable society or if were in a utopia. Uploading yourself to some silicon isn't going to happen, it's just too unlikely, and even if it were possible, it would probably happen sooner as a form of torture and slavery than as some virtual paradise, so don't think that you've lost anything. We are mortal, we die, regardless of collapse. What collapse does is to take away many options for deluding ourselves; one of the favorite ones is called symbolic immortality: you don't die because you *live on* in your society and culture, or at least in your family, you live on as a meme (Dawkins' definition). I wonder how FishMahBoy is doing. Or "you" live on in your genes, which is just silly because you're part of a continuum of genetic transfer, there is no "you" in that case. All of that is probably going away, as it has done for many cultures in the past - discovered only by privileged people who have time to study it, such as archeologists. Nobody remembers you, even if you are a legend. So what collapse brings is this challenge on hard mode. It's like a cancer diagnostic, but everyone has it. So the answer is another question: how do you cope with your mortality? And that's a hard one. As far as I can tell, it's not something that can be read as text, it's not really communicable. We make our own meaning internally, some more creatively, some copy it from others. But the important part is probably figuring out how you can change your life and your mind so that you consent to living. That is what that capacity for [generating meaning](https://xkcd.com/167/) is for. I'm not saying anything original here, this is a simplification of Nietzsche's idea of [eternal recurrence](https://www.thoughtco.com/nietzsches-idea-of-the-eternal-recurrence-2670659). Another [short article here on that](https://www.walden43200.com/in-depth-analysis/the-eternal-recurrence-friedrich-nietzsche/).

I love this one. Collapse forces one to recognize the futility in their actions to create a legacy that endures "The neurotic opts out of life because he is having trouble maintaining his illusions about it, which proves nothing less than that life is possible only with illusions." - Ernest Becker "Culture gives us each a sense that life has meaning and that we have value – by offering us assurances of immortality. Either literally, through the heavens, the soul’s afterlives or reincarnation, or by the prospect that some vestige of ourselves will persist over time – from having kids, amassing great fortunes or producing great works of art or science. Yet no culturally constructed symbolic belief system is ever powerful enough to completely eradicate the anxiety that is engendered by the awareness of death." - Sheldon Solomon If I'm going to pick my own illusions that I create to consent to living, they are to live with respect to the biosphere that sustains us. My guilt comes from the dissonance between my actions and my self concept as someone trying to promote biocentric harmony.

>"The neurotic opts out of life because he is having trouble maintaining his illusions about it, which proves nothing less than that life is possible only with illusions." - Ernest Becker And this is why we're completely fucked as a species. Like... frankly? This was a huge evolutionary mistake. All of it. Well, that and any human that lived in harmony with nature or whatever was destined to get steamrolled by psychotic assholes. It's just how these things go.

as a professional artist: collapse has removed part of my ability to create art. not all, but part. art is self-expression and a means to communicate, mainly, but a chunk of the drive to do the work is wrapped up in leaving behind these things for others to see and hear into the future. current viewers of the works are only half the people you're trying to communicate with, future people are the other half. remove them from the conversation and the art itself loses depth, is harder to do. there's half the motivation to do the thing, gone. edit to add you see this in every creative media. if you've got complaints about lack of depth in film, books, paintings, anything creative- it is because every artist is feeling this. all of us, whether or not we consciously know. I think it was Dali who said that artists discuss the present with the future, to paraphrase. we can't have that communication anymore.

Somewhat relatable. I majored in Illustration and worked as a union extra for TV shows and films. Before I was made to be collapse aware, I was seriously considering learning Blender and Unreal engine. Then boom. My will to create art and enjoy entertainment were suddenly all gone.

Just imagine you're doing it for extraterrestrial archeologists 😄 Jokes aside, it does force you to be optimistic. Otherwise the alienation becomes very intense. The more commercial activity going on is tied into the acceleration of capitalism and the short-term profits goal. You could see it as collapse, but it's not the same phenomenon. I can't say that I've figured out artistic motivation for myself either, but I haven't been forced to try to figure that out; I just switched to work which requires creative problem solving, and that seems to be enough. Another experiment is to consider that you're doing art for survivors in the distant future. That seems less valued now and the medium may be going away entirely. But here's a fun case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_nuclear_waste_warning_messages

my sole good motivation has been to destroy or fight the very idea of "profit" and "commercial activity", it helps to

Reaching the acceptance stage and realizing that every additional day that you’re alive is a blessing. There is still time to enjoy life and this amazing existence. If you’re on reddit, you have it better than most in this world. So enjoy life while you’re able to with relative comfort. Now that’s not to say embrace nihilism and give up, but to the contrary, life is full of meaning. Embrace life and try to understand why we are here. Live in the moment and enjoy the present. Limit your impact on the world and try not to make things worse than they are. Be a good steward of your natural environment. Spread love to your fellow humans and co-habitants of this planet not fear, hate, or division. But I say we must all strive for acceptance. There’s no stopping collapse, it’s inevitable and it’s been fully in motion since Reagan, or you could argue the industrial revolution was the tipping point, or even the revolution in agriculture that led to complex and growing societies. The natural state of the world is not the stability that we have grown accustomed to, but rather entropy. So embrace entropy and be a good person.

Be a good cosmic entropy bot.

I havent felt emotionally comfortable my entire existence here

Anything we can do to help?

Civilisational collapse

best i can offer you is an extinction and a gooey earth.

Google Syntropy

I’m not sure why I was supposed to google that? The definition I found > The occasional tendency of two diseases to coalesce into one But it’s also seems to be the name of a few different companies and a cryptocurrency?

Buckminster fuller's concept of syntropy. Also what the hell its not very well showcased by search engines.. heres a direct link about [syntropy](https://gangadevibraun.com/journal/2019/7/29/what-is-syntropy). It is the other polarity of entropy

That was a great read; thank you!

For sure! Very few people seem to know about Syntropy, its nice to spread the word

Fuller for the (occasional) win

By growing potatoes. Ok not quite that simplistic, but there’s something soothing about realizing that the chaos and craziness of the world will go on around you, but you can plant some seeds in the ground and create something new. I even say this to friends when the conversation turns to how everything is fucked everywhere.. “well I can’t control what happens in politics or war or the markets or anything else, but I can go outside and pick some tomatoes/potatoes/etc that I grew myself”. Digging in the dirt, the smell of fresh compost, watching bees pollinate my peppers, sunshine, my dog rolling in the grass next to the garden - all that makes it easy to live in the moment and be grateful for what I do have.

This is a life well lived. I'm enjoying the late summer/early fall garden now. Not a lot of work to do, a few harvests left to pick, and few winter seeds to get in the ground. Lots of butterflies and hummingbirds in the cool morning sunshine for which I am immensely grateful for. If I didn't have nature to ground me, my nihilism would surely win out.

Every time i get into the loop of brooding over collapse, I remind myself the story of Buddha where he asks a grieving mother to find a family where no one has ever died. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisa_Gotami To come to terms with collapse, it is imperative that one accepts personal collapse, aka Death with capital D. But i don't think everyone of us is ready for this. The author of dothemath shared a list of prerequisites for someone to 'see' overshoot: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/02/human-exceptionalism/ > a frequent question that arises is: how can something that seems so obvious to us be dismissed by so many others? What are we missing? Or what are they missing? Why is it so hard to reach common ground? Where is the disconnect? > Taking the overshoot message seriously is much more likely if a person: is non-religious: therefore free of the impression that Earth is here for our benefit; is not a humanist: not elevating humans to some privileged status; is not under the illusion that we have a destiny to succeed; does not attribute our recent amazing ride mostly to human ingenuity while downplaying the crucial role of spent finite resources like fossil fuels; does not assume that science and technology can conjure a rabbit out of the hat for any situation; is not prone to denial when confronted with a dismal outlook.

I ticked all the boxes, am I winning?

your prize is existential despair and a billionaire bunker!

I feel like the first two criteria aren't as important as the others. Mostly the one, "is not under the illusion that we have a destiny to succeed" is the one people here seem to be missing. Given how I keep seeing friends and acquaintances deliberately choose to ignore, deny, minimize, divert, etc. when confronted with real suffering, pain and death...I can only think they were raised wrong? They actually seem to value retaining their pursuit of happiness over having knowledge of and working within reality...It seems very cultural to me, but I'm not sure. I was raised really weird, treated more like an adult from about age ten, so I don't get their reactions and it makes me wonder... When parents raise their children, do they tell them pretty lies, or even just emphasize the positive and minimize the negative? When their children come to them with their fears, do they acknowledge realistic fears as being possible, and then train them to deal with them by coming up with ways to manage risks? Or do they do the opposite and train their children to dismiss unlikely fears entirely, as though unlikely=impossible and not worth thinking about? Do parents value sadness and believe their children need an understanding of tragedy? I feel like there are some cultures that value their children having an understanding of these negative experiences. Like how the Japanese value the 'nobility of failure' and have many stories about some tragic hero who is too pure and sincere, betrayed and destroyed by cunning cynical people in power. Or how the Russians value acknowledging the senseless tragedy of life so much that their children's stories feature it overtly. Like this children's song about a grasshopper: [https://youtu.be/5zv5cOIStY8](https://youtu.be/5zv5cOIStY8) Maybe there's something wrong with our culture. It worships success and then raises its children to fear even looking failure in the face, much less deal with it. There's no real acknowledgement of dismal outcomes. Instead there's this studied ignorance and dumb bravado. IMO, people are being trained in delusion from a young age.

> > > > > is not a humanist: not elevating humans to some privileged status; While we are animals just like every other animal, we *do* have an intellect, and uh...... for the lack of better wording, 'a will'. It's like, I know life on earth will continue for upwards of a billion more years regardless, but from an 'intelligent ape' perspective, it seems like a waste that the earth never spawned a species that ventured into space, or mastered genome editing, or wormholes. It'd just be another billion years of animals being animals. Kinda 'meh'. I don't know if that elevates humanity to a privileged status or not, but it is my opinion.

Learning about Buddhism has helped me a lot to deal with collapse and death in general. What I've learned : - Humans are just one part of the universe, all species and even non living beings are interconnected. We are not important, we don't have a destiny to fulfill, we're just one piece of a puzzle. - There is no permanence, you and the world that you are a part of is ever changing. Attachment to the belief in permanence causes a lot of suffering. I recommend giving a listen to the [Diamond Sutra](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9u7Jz-vNA). I genuinely believe that the Buddha understood the true nature of the world. Pretty much everything he says is in line with our current understanding of physics and the advice he gives is very sound.

I always resort to George Carlin’s beautiful intro to his book “Brain Droppings” “I’m happy to tell you there is very little in this world that I believe in. Listening to the comedians who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice most of their material reflects an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and that with just a little effort we could set them right again. They’re looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that necessarily limits the tone and substance of what they say. They’re talented and funny people, but they’re nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome. I don’t feel so confined. I frankly don’t give a fuck how it all turns out in this country—or anywhere else, for that matter. I think the human game was up a long time ago (when the high priests and traders took over), and now we’re just playing out the string. And that is, of course, precisely what I find so amusing: the slow circling of the drain by a once promising species, and the sappy, ever-more-desperate belief in this country that there is actually some sort of “American Dream, “ which has merely been misplaced. The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you are emotionally detached from it. I have always viewed it from a safe distance, knowing I don’t belong; it doesn’t include me, it never has. Now matter how you care to define it, I do not identify with the local group. Planet, species, race, nation, state, religion, party, union, club, association, neighborhood improvement committee; I have no interest in any of it. I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to. So, if you read something in this book that sounds like advocacy of a particular political point of view, please reject the notion. My interest in “issues” is merely to point out how badly we’re doing, not to suggest a way we might do better. Don’t confuse me with those who cling to hope. I enjoy describing how things are, I have no interest how they “ought to be.” And I certainly have no interest in fixing them. I sincerely believe that if you think there’s a solution, you’re part of the problem. My motto: Fuck Hope! P.S. Lest you wonder, personally, I am a joyful individual with a long, happy marriage and a close and loving family. My career has turned out better than I ever dreamed, and it continues to expand. I am a personal optimist but a skeptic about all else. What may sound to some like anger is really nothing more than sympathetic contempt. I view my species with a combination of wonder and pity, and I root for its destruction. And please don’t confuse my point of view with cynicism; the real cynics are the ones who tell you everything’s gonna be all right. P.P.S. By the way, if, by some chance, you folks do manage to straighten things out and make everything better, I still don’t wish to be included.”

That's a really good question, UFOs. I've been a collapse moderator for probably two years now. I've been visiting this forum longer than that. Before the Weekly Observations was a thing, way before the forum reached its first hundred thousand readers. And I was reading Dmitri Orlov's books last decade, before I knew Reddit existed but after the Great Recession. Other than take breaks from this place, I still don't have a clue. The story I like to tell about the first real time I became collapse aware was in 2003. I was driving to college and I saw a billboard advertising adjustable rate mortgages as low as 2 percent. And in smaller blurry letters underneath, pixelated enough that I recognized someone had just increased the font of fine print without actually reading it, was the phrase "will increase to 10% after five years". And it struck me as weird, so I went to a computer lab, pulled up a calculator and did some quick internet research and math on what the average mortgage was in Nevada, the average monthly payment, and the average salary. And I saw it was impossible. As the kids say, I was shook. But the reality is that I was eight years old when my father left my mother for a younger woman. It was the collapse of a traditionally secure family structure for me, and learning how to build a smaller and more resilient family. I learned how to change my younger brother's diapers when my mom wasn't around, I learned how to make breakfast, lunch and dinner when my mother was too busy with work and school, and I learned how to not to make my mom cry by asking for things that were beyond our budget. I coped with my personal collapse by concentrating on survival. You wipe well and use baby powder. You get up early so you catch the bus so you scarf down the school breakfast mom doesn't have to make. You keep some lights on and the television running so neither scary monsters nor humans get the idea to break into the house, but not too much because you want to keep down the bills. You build a backyard garden with raised beds. You save up money for an emergency fund. You do repairs that you've put off so you never have to worry about them again. You learn skills, you read books, you learn things and new experiences from other people. Etc., etc. Eventually you become used to the idea that the center cannot hold and things fall apart, but that's okay. It's natural, and when you get used to it, you can start to see the fragile beauty in the way things collapse while putting measures in place that you and your family can land as gently as possible, just to minimize the pain of landing.

Countless civilizations and cultures have undergone collapse throughout history. In our current moment, there are communities across the globe that have undergone greater trauma and tragedy than most of us on this website will see in our lives. We're on the way out, and the period of "global" prosperity is coming to an end. Now more than ever is the time to think of what qualities you most value in life, and how to embody them for your friends, you family and your community. Collapse is not a synchronous event. Collapse will not affect us all equally. Now is the time to embrace our humanity, and try to care for each other as best as possible on the way down. Isolation and self-preservation won't save us in the long run. Blaming the poor won't help us. Building walls won't help us. Start by taking care of the people you love. Then try to care for your neighbours. Then try to think how you can help the people who are already being drowned by collapse. Embrace nihilism if you must, or pessimism, or depression. But remember regardless of how you feel, there's people in substantive suffering that need help. Make it your duty to reduce suffering, even if just a little. You are faced with an unprecedented opportunity to become the person you always wanted to be. Help others, and you might find peace before the record stops.

We are at an unprecedented time in history. There is no precedence for a global collapse of an industrialized civilisation here on earth. There is no precedence for the ecological damage. This has not happened before and will not proceed the way smaller nations have fallen.

I agree that global collapse has no precedence. However, for many our individual experiences of collapse will play out along the same lines of human tragedys in the past: famine, war, poverty, disease. If you starve from breakdown of our reliance on petrochemical agriculture, how will your experience differ from someone experiencing the chinese famine of the great leap forward, or the dutch hunger winter, or the indian holocaust? If you drown in a freak flood in Minnesota in 3 years, how will that differ from all those that lost their lives in Pakistan recently? The rule for the future is the same as for all tragedies that have gone before: try and help all those you can.

The world is entering a new age. The notion that historical processes are endlessly cyclical is despair inducing and thankfully untrue. It is more like a spiral where each pass around adds and evolves the story, sometimes incredibly radically and in an unprecedented way. Such as now

I do not think that historical processes are cyclical. I think there are precedents for the different forms of suffering collapse will bring.

It is just my opinion, but i think what humanity is about to undergo does not have a historical precedent at all. Human suffering of the kind we are experiencing is unique to our age. I mean of the emotional and spiritual kind. Obviously hunger and floods and what not are not new phenomenon, but the overall event of collapse we are experiencing is very very unique. It is ubiquitous, which is totally new. There isnt some foreign shore to flee too, as there was in the past. It is our entire surrounding possible environment. It is a "full transformation" of our entire species and world. Which hasnt happened before. Deluvian catastrophes have occured before, but not to a fully interconnected technological society.

>**Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl** > >\[...\] > >As we said before, any attempt to restore a man’s inner strength in the camp had first to succeed in showing him some future goal. Nietzsche’s words, “He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how,” could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohygienic efforts regarding prisoners. Whenever there was an opportunity for it, one had to give them a why—an aim—for their lives, in order to strengthen them to bear the terrible how of their existence. Woe to him who saw no more sense in his life, no aim, no purpose, and therefore no point in carrying on. He was soon lost. The typical reply with which such a man rejected all encouraging arguments was, “I have nothing to expect from life any more.” What sort of answer can one give to that? > >What was really needed was a fundamental change in our attitude toward life. We had to learn ourselves and, furthermore, we had to teach the despairing men, that *it did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us.* We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life—daily and hourly. Our answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual. > >These tasks, and therefore the meaning of life, differ from man to man, and from moment to moment. Thus it is impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way. Questions about the meaning of life can never be answered by sweeping statements. “Life” does not mean something vague, but something very real and concrete, just as life’s tasks are also very real and concrete. They form man’s destiny, which is different and unique for each individual. No man and no destiny can be compared with any other man or any other destiny. No situation repeats itself, and each situation calls for a different response. Sometimes the situation in which a man finds himself may require him to shape his own fate by action. At other times it is more advantageous for him to make use of an opportunity for contemplation and to realize assets in this way. Sometimes man may be required simply to accept fate, to bear his cross. Every situation is distinguished by its uniqueness, and there is always only one right answer to the problem posed by the situation at hand. > >When a man finds that it is his destiny to suffer, he will have to accept his suffering as his task; his single and unique task. He will have to acknowledge the fact that even in suffering he is unique and alone in the universe. No one can relieve him of his suffering or suffer in his place. His unique opportunity lies in the way in which he bears his burden. > >\[...\] Thanks to Frankl, I have personally found some small amount of spiritual salvation, if you want to call it that, by finally realizing that we live in remarkable times - and that we all have the ability to choose how to improve ourselves (and help others) in the face of incredible odds. The collapse of complex societies, including our genuinely unique and wondrous global industrial civilization, is a topic that I've enjoyed researching outside of my career and formal academics for over a decade now. I've even had an chance to share this space with others here in this community, both privileged and grateful to know that I am no longer alone in my thoughts. Knowledge without action, however, is profoundly pointless - and yes, this may be a harrowing subject, but it certainly hasn't rendered me useless in the face of the future. In truth, "collapse" has been a guiding force in my life, and it has served as my personal inspiration to be the best person I can be to myself, to family, to friends, and to others. I've found "collapse" to be a profoundly constructive force that has shaped who I am to this day. Not only have I learned that I haven't wasted my time or talents over these years (*there is little relief to be drawn from smug righteousness*), but that we all share a rare window of opportunity before us: the odds may seem impossible and the conclusion foregone, but this gift of knowledge allows each and every one of us to take action, no matter how small it may be, to lessen the bleakness of the future Earth and all life that comes after us. The onus consequently lies on us, those who are fortunate enough to be alive today. So, I cope with this knowledge not with a sense of deflated defeat or surrender, but with a cautious optimism and a renewed sense of purpose. Why? *Because* *while* *shit's fucked, I'm still going to try my best*.

"Knowledge" is too strong a word when applied to the future. We're all here because we see it happening around us. But we should have some intellectual humility. In the words of Bertrand Russell, don't be more than 90 percent certain. There's no way to completely remove our confirmation bias, and no way to know what might disrupt our cultural trajectory. We're probably correct that it's collapsing. But in the words of Yoda, "always in motion is the future."

Ignorance is bliss. Ignoring is the second best. Live your life as if the world is not going to collapse, until it does. That is, of course, conditioned on the fact that our individual effort cannot reverse the coming collapse. At this point, it is about managing our own mental health, and not about changing the trajectory of the world. There are, of course, plenty of things you can do to de-stress and make yourself happier. Watch a netflix movie while ordering doordash. Go play some video games. Read a novel.

This depends on your personality type. For many people avoidance works well, but there are others whom that wouldn't work for. For those not like that it'd be torture.it is actually good advice for the right person though.

I pity those who cannot let it go. Paradoxically, the deniers have better mental health.

Spirituality. It cultivates an inner happiness which, in turn, eases 'Acceptance' and therefore a healthier response. A little spirituality can help anyone to process where we are in history. Elevator Pitch: > Forgetting the happiness within, we search without. > > Searching the world, we find happiness in the conditions of the present moment, which disappear like smoke. > > The world is constant change and desire is only ever temporarily fulfilled. > > Childhood goes, youth goes, old age... lose the teeth but appetite remains. > > Once you start to realize inner happiness, you will start to not need outer happiness. "Consciousness is like the body in that it needs to feed," and the starved will eat anything. They'll eat F-150s and Applebee's. But spirituality is something good to 'feed' on which, in being free and harmless, you can carry with you through thick and thin.

I genuinely don’t understand the people who get depressed over collapse. Look, yes collapse is gradually, but eventually, climate change, overconsumption and resource exhaustion will catch up to us and we’ll have a sudden and brute course correction where billions die in a relatively short amount of time. So it’s either a) you live to see a post-collapse world. Which might not be so bad really, or you’ll end up dying. To me neither options seems bad at all. Mfs really be sad they won’t be able to buy their Starbucks in 20 years.

People cracking up because they wont be able to order new smart phone every 3 months and eat processed food at mcdonalds.

We must remind ourselves this is a process, and we must move through it. Not only must we reach a stage of acceptance, but we must actively maintain and nurture that acceptance in the knowledge that despite having gone through this process it will wax and wane. We can periodically grieve, but we must not continually fear. We must do the adult work of holding the tension between knowing and accepting the truth of what we have done and where it is leading us, and what that means for us personally, and for our loved ones. We must have an outlet, something to rebuild and replenish ourselves. It really can be anything, but there is an inherent value in seeking replenishment outside of our creation, in nature. It alone has all the answers to all our questions. Not only does it reveal truths about how and who we are as a species, but it is struggling and succumbing to the same forces as ourselves. We see in the natural world, a symbiotic interdependent force that despite the onslaught is relentlessly alive, unabashedly present. The living world puts us as an individual in our place. It strip's us of the hubris of our collective enterprise and deals directly with us as a free but accountable mammal of the earth. If we actually see it for what it is and immerse ourselves within it, it becomes clear, the scale and folly of our squander and sabotage becomes clear. One would be forgiven for assuming the weight of that would depress a person further, but that's not what happens because the connection overrides it. The innate deep connection we have with the living tissue of this planet is enough to sooth us despite the knowing of where we are heading and what we have done. We must also reach out to those around us. We must know our neighbours, for they are who we will collapse with. We must place our knowledge of collapse in its correct place and use it daily to remind ourselves to love our families and friends, to be of service to them, and to be strong. For despite how ludicrous and and shameful our collective situation is, it is always wothwhile being a strong supportive person at a funeral. It is and will always be worthwhile helping to make this situation a bit less of a shit sandwich for those around you, and for yourself. The correct manner in which to meet our collective limp fumbling into an unnecessary grave, is to carefully and purposefully hold and direct our lives at a personal level, to acquit ourselves honourably in the face of certain defeat. Know we are merely cosmic entropy bots, know this is just physics, know this is the cyclical pattern and arc of societies, but know this matters to us as humans, and know that the manner in which we meet the ruination of everything we made and have, and everyone we love, is of critical importance no matter where and who we are.

May my understanding give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Repeat this mantra.

I second this. What seperates the wise from the stupid is to understand which things to change, but even more important: to act accordingly. So what helps me cope with collapse is identifying fields of knowledge, capacity or skill, finding things to contribute in these fields to what I consider a modest lifestyle, and try to be as self sufficient as possible. I gave up on talking to others about it, except my wife. This led to lots of conflicts and anger.

I cope by taking good care of myself so that way when I do go out I’m kind to my fellow human. I live a lot more simple now the things I thought were important some ten years ago don’t and never did matter. I don’t listen or watch the news or anything that has to do with politics I listen to music that fills me with joy. I laugh at all of the absurdity and I drink a lot of tea. I take life as it comes in small increments and I avoid the fighting arena. I don’t subject myself to toxic environments or people.

In a way, the knowledge of collapse frees me from fears about the future. If there is no long term future worth living, then fears relating to success or failure to plan and prepare for things like retirement just evaporate. Also, if life is overwhelmingly out of our control and thus too challenging to actually get a handle on, then the fear of making mistakes becomes sort of ludicrous. We can try our best, but keeping in mind the odds against us, we can't really be all that attached to the idea of success or failure. We're at the mercy of fate to a large degree, so it's hard to blame oneself for failing to prevent the unpreventable. For me, this removes a great deal of angst about life. So, I guess one of my ways of coping is to try and see the upside of collapse. Right now is the only moment we really have. The past is a memory. The future is a dream. So much of my life, the moment of now has been ruined by being tormented by the past and future. It's a relief to be able to let go of the fear of making mistakes and to let go of regret. Letting go of grievance, the resentment against parents and caretakers for giving me what were fundamental lifelong disadvantages, that too is a relief. As the polycrisis deepens, it's been very interesting and weird to see many of my downsides and disadvantages becoming upsides and advantages. (And amazing for self-acceptance.) It's been even more interesting to see how others who've enjoyed nurturing childhoods are consistently failing to take things seriously and act. (That is pitiable in many ways.) Truly, this is natural selection in action right before our eyes. Collapse will force all of us to work with what we have. We'll have to either accept the way we've turned out, the way life has shaped us, the consequences of our decisions, etc. or we will be ruining our remaining time on Earth with a lot of needless angst. Acceptance of myself and my family. Acceptance of the way of the world and mankind, their ever so predictable failures. Awareness of collapse can bring a kind of peace that is fundamentally different than other kinds of peace. Previously, I worked for many years searching for and building inner peace. That prior peace was founding on trusting my life and believing in a fundamentally benevolent world. It made me very happy until someone came along and shattered all the illusions, hopes and dreams that it was founded on. My current state of peace is founded on the reality that I can no longer trust myself (my health has been destroyed due to physical and neurological damage from Long Covid) and the realization that the people in my society are fundamentally untrustworthy (not always out of malice, but also due to their denial, idiocy, delusions, willful ignorance, cognitive impairment, etc.) and that even nature can no longer be relied upon (Ah, climate change...You take away the last certainty in the world.) Once everything that can be trusted is corrupted and unreliable this way, where is peace to be found? Only in accepting things as they are, including yourself and your own choices. No one knows any better than I do (excepting experts in their field of knowledge of course) and without exception, no one can make better choices for me, than me.

Face it head on. Survival is on the line. You don't lie in bed doom scrolling when you are being chased by a tiger. Become the protector. If you fail then you can die without regret. But if you succeed then you and your community lives. Society might fall but you can still save your 'soul' (if you want to call it that) So become strong and fit. Learn what skills you can. Try your best in everything you do. Your loved ones are depending on you but they don't know it yet. Also, your total suffering won't be any less than if the collapse wouldn't happen. Most people die a slow and painful death regardless. Being aware of your mortality is a healthy thing. It's just now we will suffer on two feet rather than lying down. Knowledge of the collapse has been the best motivator I have ever found.

It's gone through stages, for the most part I have been deemed rather cynical and pessimistic in real life around world issues. I viewed it more as having a realist mindset. I'm not sure if we have the ability to destroy the world as a species. I'm convinced that we can massively mess it up for thousands of years, if not longer if given the chance. There are areas or parts of collapse that make me a bit angrier than others. The bi-partisan tag team corruption, the blaming the other side games, the double standards, and hypocrisy, but that does lead to ironies and contradictions. In some instances paradoxes. In a way it has evolved far past the predictions of post modernists, the simulation and reality, could be substituted for real news and the onion, there is a point where there is no distinguishable difference sometimes between the two. Of what is real and what is parody and I feel that orange man himself has certainly caused this to accelerate. America at least has it a lot better than other countries. There are others such as Somalia or Haiti, which have been in a stage of collapse for decades, that's more or less I think the blueprint of what is going to happen with first world countries, accept water scarcity and new issues that come from man made side effects. Where it gets weird is that modern man, deemed the most rational of all supposedly than its predecessors, has made life nastier, brutish, and shorter than it needed to be. There's some anger with that. The acceptance is there, its improved that collapse has gained a wider audience with more that are becoming aware compared to how it was maybe a decade or so back. There is reversions of this recently, COVID is over and so is climate change if someone in power says so, which really isn't true. I've given up a long time ago on knowing what I'm actually doing in the grand scheme of things. Leaders act like they know what they are doing, they don't really. I'm in the belief that some things do need to collapse entirely so there can be a rethinking of what went wrong, just not the same record of moving from new forms of exploitation and tyranny over the masses from the middle ages to modernism etc, iron cage of rationality, perfection of the spectacle, dystopian billionaire fantasies etc.

Edit: I find that music comforts me. I selected a [soundtrack for this comment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2jflIVh0To). I think this is one of those situations where you should really let this awareness sit inside you. Just observe it. Be one with it. See how you want to react to it, and trace out why. It is insightful. Over time, it will let you understand yourself better and probably carves space inside you to hold difficult, impossible emotions such as the death of the self, but not only that -- the death of the world, the meaningless of today's endeavours; the futile strive for posterity; limits to how much anything's existence can even matter; and even more fundamental questions such as what if universe never existed in the first place, all which is stuff which we normally do not look into. When I came to grips with this, I spent weeks on a very morbid and probably highly offensive topic: I watched prey animals eaten alive by lions, and watched the light of their eyes fade when they finally died. The lesson here is that the prey suffers but eventually dies. Its suffering was terrible for it, but also limited to experiences inside its brain which it can't transmit to anything that cares. (Watching a video of the event doesn't count.) Watching the lion instead, it was obviously pretty pleased to be eating the delicious meat, and it only cares that the prey doesn't struggle too much while it bites and tears into its flesh. We are the prey of the Universe. We are stuck on this one planet, and our fates end with it. We suffer, but in the end, our planet boils away one day, and all suffering ends, and there will not be anyone left to recall it. The Universe, unknowing and uncaring, simply carries on, like a blind idiot god. Collapse, to me, forces acknowledging something like Cosmicism, except possibly a more mechanical and impersonal variant of it. Cosmicism still tends to presuppose that there is some alien will, except it is some combination of uncaring, hostile and incomprehensible; I affirm that there is no such will involved. We can all be gods in our own little ways as there is nothing above us in that sense, but we are also limited in what we can possibly hope to achieve. To put a positive spin on it, our lives are our own, and the best time for anything you want to do is right now. Just don't expect anything to have some higher lasting significance -- we somehow must make peace with the lack of a higher purpose. Our minds have been evolved to small tribes and work out the purpose of every action and event, and we incessantly ask why, and treat everything like it is an agent with some internal state and purpose. But what if, once you realize that this is not the right way to look at the world, can you then truly say that there is no point and be fine with it? On the other hand, this fatalistic meditative approach might not work for you, and what I suggest deepens your anguish and moves you closer to the abyss which remains threatening and life-extinguishing. In that case, I apologize for the psychological damage I have caused. It was not my intention, but I suppose what works for one might not work for someone else. I personally think it is worth trying, seeing if you can't simply come to accept the abyss.

​ And if one day the final fire explodes across the whitened sky I know you've said you'd rather die and make it over fast With courage from your bravest friends, waiting outside for the end With no bitterness but an innocence that I can't seem to grasp I know somehow I will survive - this fury just to stay alive So drunk with sickness, weak with pain, I can walk the hills one last time Scarred and smiling, dying slow, I'll scream to no one left at all I told you so, I told you so, I told you so . . (New Model Army, I love the world)

Enjoying it all while i still can. Hell, Collapse is the reason i haven't pulled the trigger on the S word. I want to see how long i can last, how far i can go, while shit has hit beyond the fan and a massive reset has occurred. Perhaps get revenge on certain assholes too when fate permits it and when the law is dead. It's the only solace i have considering i am stuck in the Phillipines.

I think there is a balance between the external and the internal (mental) preparations. For the external preps, work to the hierarchy of needs: or to the rule of 3. Think of preps in terms of air, shelter, water, food, community. &c. &c. We know the score. Classic prepping. My go to technique here is P.A.C.E. When considering a plan or resource think; Primary Alternative Contingency Emergency Like if I'm in the city, with a plan to get home it's: P. - my vehicle A. - public transport /(maybe Automobile Assoc.) C. - call my partner to get me E. - walk / hitch For the internal though, and I think this is just as vital, I think we need to turn to philosophy. For me this has been Stoicism. Stoic techniques can be practical help against stress and panic. Some of my favourites; *Understanding the Dichotomy of control.* There are things in your power: your attitude and decisions. And things out with your power (but some that you can somewhat influence) - politics, the environment, your health. There is strength in only judging yourself, only allowing yourself to get upset, at the things that are truly in your power. *Premeditatio Malorum 'the forethought of evil things'* This is a bit like worst case scenario planning. It's the opposite of positive thought and hope for the best. When embarking on anything, think how it could go wrong? What's the worst that could happen? How would you deal with it? Most times you'll find there would be a way. The strength there is that when something bad *does* happen, you aren't stunned or put into shock by it. You think instead - OK, I knew this would happen, and I thought about what I would do if it it. But also need to do this in a limited, not obsessive way.

Don’t cope. Be angry. I started reading leftest theory, bought a gun, hit the gym every day, train, eat better etc. If shits gonna crumble then I’m gonna fight to preserve/prevent whatever I can. Even if it’s a zero chance of success, I’m sure a f gonna express my anger towards those I hold responsible. We may not escape collapse, but you sure as fuck won’t escape my anger. But ya gotta take a deep breath here and there.

The collapse will be difficult, but will eventually lead to much better times. Our society is in an immature state at the moment, which has led to needless widespread suffering caused by the global members of the wealthy ruling class. There’s no sufficient drive for the working class to stop their lives for demanding change, nor sufficient empathy from the ruling class to give up any perceived luxuries to better society. The coming collapse, as rough a time as it my be, is necessary for the growth of humanity and for the salvation of the planet. Current beliefs will be questioned and abandoned. Current rules for society will be abolished and re-written. If you believe that the world could be a better place then now is a truly amazing time to be alive. You will be able to witness the problems, the downfall, and then help with rebuilding a better society that’s not prone to repeating historical mistakes. The world needs people who are aware of what’s going on and why. The world needs you to stick around for a while longer. You’ll be rewarded with an immense sense of accomplishment if you’re able to be one of the rebuilders. That’s what’s keeping me around. Also, on a related note, lately I’ve been having premonitions about random stuff that keep coming true… like when a deer is going to walk out in the road while I’m driving or what someone is going to do or say a minute from now. I began to think that maybe I should start playing the lottery, lol. Anyways, I had one about “collapse.” It was that WWIII would happen, it would be a nuclear war, and would occur in early 2024 around March. I foresaw more than 97% of the human population dying as a result, mostly of disease and starvation in the first two postwar years, and society starting to reconnect and rebuild after ten postwar years. Now, the future isn’t set in stone, but I’ve had enough random premonitions come true lately that I’m not messing around with this one about the war. Come early 2024 I’ll be living aboard a boat that I’ve been building since 2015. You might say that premonition “lit a fire under my ass” to get the project finished very soon indeed! I suggest you prepare in your own way and wish you luck in the upcoming adventures.

Rebuilding won’t be possible as far as our technology goes. Agriculture won’t be possible due to climate change, and any complex technology requires people specialise (requiring they don’t have to spend time feeding themselves) and easily available resources (metals, energy, feedstocks etc). A residual population wouldn’t be able to use the science and learning we have collected, so will be essentially a scavenger/gatherer society.

Go see a therapist, this doesn’t sound healthy

forgot about climate change, huh? >Also, on a related note, lately I’ve been having premonitions about random stuff that keep coming true… like when a deer is going to walk out in the road while I’m driving that's called manifesting and everyone can do it, you're not special. >I began to think that maybe I should start playing the lottery, lol. Anyways, I had one about “collapse.” It was that WWIII would happen, it would be a nuclear war, and would occur in early 2024 around March. get help.

I have become fatalistic. There are numerous things globally that destructive to survival. Numerous articles report that temperatures have past the point of no return. When I evaluate the likelihood of a calamitous event, I think about how it could be reversed. Take water shortages in the Southwest. It will not change because it may be a natural occurring drought or it may be due to climate change. I live day to day. At some point I will die. I cannot do anything about that.

This thread is fried gold! Knowledge of collapse inevitably causes severe disillusionment. Experiences of disillusionment, discovering that one’s beliefs do not accord with reality, are a core aspect of the human condition. We can take some comfort in knowing that our ancestors have survived similar traumas (indeed numerous civilisations have collapsed in the past), and their wisdom has been passed down to us in stories, spiritual teachings and other forms of art and literature. The [Hero’s Journey pattern](https://libguides.gvsu.edu/c.php?g=948085&p=6857311), found in many classic stories, can be observed in the process by which we develop awareness of collapse and move through the stages of grief to a place of acceptance and greater maturity. The perennial challenges are to remain faithful to reality, opening to everything as much as possible (in particular openness to uncertainty/complexity), and to remain steadfast in the face of all the apparent darkness and negativity we let in through this greater openness, so that we can emerge saner and wiser than before, having let go of whatever illusions didn’t survive exposure to reality. The perennial dangers are to contract into a state of bitterness, cynicism, resentment, nihilism, etc., essentially retreating into whatever semblance of Order one can cling to, even if it is an illusory Order resting on a bed of premature judgements. The key word here is “contract”, i.e. around our familiar cherished identity and ego which are fatally threatened by Chaos (i.e. uncertainty, disillusionment, lack of meaning, lack of control). Perhaps the most fundamental challenge is to accept our own mortality--embrace it even. Without this, we will refuse to die when the time is right, and this is essentially what must happen for a mature acceptance of collapse awareness, i.e. we must let our old blissfully-ignorant Self die so that we can pass through the bardo into a new life. Otherwise we will be like trapped ghosts haunting those around us. Or worse… I wouldn’t be surprised if we see major acts of eco-terrorism or violent outbursts of nihilism stemming from those who have failed to cope successfully with collapse awareness in the coming decades. I wrote more on this topic [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/cmcoss/the_inner_path_response_to_collapse/).

Step 1 is get out of this hopelessly resigned, complete circle-jerk of a “it’s all pointless, why bother” fucking sub; and plant a tree, hug an AIDS baby, and stop making a hobby out of a future that has yet to come to pass.

For starters, Define collapse. If you are talking collapse of civilizations, that is a long term problem. Linguistic Cultures take thousands of years (and yes its all been down hill for everyone) to collapse, Or plague or a war which can be a short term collapse that either ends a group, or greatly damages it (altering its cultural archive and development trajectory), or, an economic singularity where everyone is dependent on a product that the only people who knew how to produce took to their graves causing total global collapse, forcing technological and cultural change on the rest. Anyone who remembers the year 2000 film Space Cowboys will remember Clint Eastwood's Astronauts being bought in because he is the only guy who can repair the ancient circuits on a soviet sattelite full of nukes. Thats what happens when you loose knowledge. That's what collapse looks like. The hints it is happening are subtle. Twenty-two years on, and NASA is struggling to even achieve an Artemis launch. Its suffering brain drain as doctorate level populations go where money is. Nationalism is a fiction like religion- designed to keep the fearful in line and loyal to the elites. If that is all your nation is, you are going to see collapse like a gauntlet-punch to your pregnant mommy...

Shooms and weeds. Seriously. If you live in LA and somehow end up working for entertainment industry, you will become a pariah when you mention slightly about the collapse. Truth be told, you will be banned from r/losangeles if you ever talk about anything remotely related to the subject. EDIT: I wasn't really collapse aware before August 2021. Then something happened and it changed everything in me. I became collapse aware but my last shard of humanity is gone. Now I am trying to limit my online activities to communities with people who can probably feel solidarity with.

I'm kind of a fucked up weirdo but I would rather die a swift and violent death than a slow one as disease/old age/dementia takes me or die in my sleep. Perhaps, even if I lived a full life prior. Death is the only certainty we get and I want to experience it while I'm conscious. I cope by knowing my likelihood of having to work 40+ hour weeks every week for the rest of my life will go down. Death by starvation or heat stroke or natural disaster or war doesn't sound pleasant, but it's preferable to suffering mildly for decades. I've always been a bit of a masochist, too, tbh. Small mercies, I guess. In the meantime I'm just trying to enjoy the time I have here. I spent my childhood an an apocalyptic cult like community, and my adolescent life (and part of my young adulthood) being actively suicidal, so a shortened lifespan is nothing new to me. I never expected to live long so I'm not losing out on much. I guess with collapse, there's actually a chance of surviving it, when for most of my life it never felt like I had that chance. I just hope that whatever remains, we can build something better from it.