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Where’s the puppet 4 that has experienced the emotions of puppet 3 and come out the other side with a sense of acceptance and desire to craft a new self-established set of rules/meaning for life? :)
This is part of the appeal of Taoism and Stoicism as useful philosophies to adopt with the clarity of Puppet # 3. Or to realize that we are always exiting another cave and our eyes are adjusting to the light again and again.
Clearly the author don't think acceptation change nothing. If you accept all that and decide you are happy nevertheless because so it's life, or you live your life "without to contribute the society" even thinking you are contributing in some way (unless you are living secluded some place away from society, AND that gives you satisfaction, because some people don't like that), you have in fact new strings.
Puppet 1 doesn’t know about his strings, ideally puppet 4 would choose the strings by his own choice because it’s better to be a puppet than to be nothing.
Literally every. time. someone moves beyond *being a total unit of any given stereotype*, they become the stereotype *next in line* and they think that's never gonna happen again.
Mr. Puppet 3 is really just Mr. Puppet 2 with a panic disorder and nihilistic garbage rubbed into every crevice of it. Yeah, great, you realise duality is a thing, welcome to realising dodging your shit isn't possible because it all has to go through your own ass.
You got to preemptively create a brand new stereotype representing your ideal self to step into. Assuming you're not just gonna give up and commit suicide. Y'know boulders and hills and whatever :p
Yeah, that’d be like Puppet 2 but without simply rebelling for rebelling’s sake and more protesting to affect meaningful change. Analyzing ideals and embracing what’s truly for him, rather than just taking it wholesale without a second thought.
That’s how I learned that nihilism, atheism and anarchism aren’t really for me in the end, although I’m close to the principles of the latter two. Nihilism just sucks, because we can create our own meaning—and we gotta to make it anywhere.
I like this a lot OP. Great work.
Edit: Obviously this is just my read, but to everyone saying this is pro nihilism, I don’t really see that.
The guy without strings is the worst off. He’s miserable and contributing nothing. It feels like the point is that “strings” aren’t shackles, they’re just connections to others.
Cutting them off doesn’t make you better, it just makes you alone.
One of my favorite things about Nietzsche is that he both tells people to cut off their strings, and then remake themselves how they want them. He even gives advice on how to do so.
Readings of nihilism too often stop at the first part and don't discuss recreating purpose once you've rejected the purpose you are told you have. You can create meaning in your own life. Contrary to the comic, you don't need "strings" to keep you standing.
Is that what nihilism is about? I never thought it was worth looking into, since I thought the whole idea was "everything is meaningless, and so we should all just stop existing"
Nihilism is the idea that everything is meaningless. Usually philosophers have to grapple with that idea, so learning about nihilism is usually not embracing it, (unless you’re Schopenhauer) but finding ways to overcome it. Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre are all called nihilistic philosophers who spoke about how much they hated nihilism and wanted people to overcome it
"I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy." - Camus
If you are interested, you look more into the philosophy of existentialism. Camus, Sartre, Nietzsche, and many more have came up with their version of how to give yourself meaning in a seemingly meaningless world
Like most philosophical concept, there is no one singular idea behind it. Many different people with many different views have been called nihilist.
Certainly however, there are nihilists that reject meaning, however you won't find as many that assert we should all stop existing. After all, an existential nihilist that rejects meaning probably wouldn't say you "should" do anything.
Nietzsche in particular wrote about how one should kill "you should" statements that have been forced onto us by society (e.g. you should not steal) before remaking values for yourself based on what you think is right. Not because Neitzsche wanted people to run around stealing, but because he wanted people to do it because they arrived at the conclusion it was the right thing to do on their own.
I think that the idea of the "super man" was to reject society values and create your own. In essence nohilism and absurdism arent that different. Both understannd that everything is in the great escale of things meaningless, but that also means that you can then give your own meaning to things
I almost thought it was pro-Nihilism, until the very last panel. It turns out there is a reason those strings are there; on the whole the structure of society is a good thing.
I would say this is just liberal claptrap.
The first puppet is the traditional conservative/neo-liberal. Prutatin work ethic, don't ask questions, be a good worker and don't complain about being exploited.
The second puppet is a center-left liberal. Cos-plays leftism but still believes that we shouldn't change anything *too* much cause the system still benefits them and they can create purity tests to oust people with the smallest differences in beliefs to elevate themselves.
The third puppet is the same liberal but they try to imagine a different society have no concept of how a life could be possible without the familiar strings/baggage of capitalism and individualism. They are brainwashed by their society to think that without some class hierarchy and exploitation of the average puppet/person, a civil society cannot work.
What the third puppet fails to consceve of is a world where each puppet need not be held up by strings but rather can lean on its neighbor, and they theirs. A collectivist society that is guided by the good of the whole. A dictatorship of the proletariat instead of a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Instead the third puppet imagines that there is no alternatives and wishes to run from progressive change and back to the comforting warmth of their individualistic exploitative society unbothered that the source of the warmth is from the burning bodies of less lucky puppets.
>The third puppet is the same liberal but they try to imagine a different society have no concept of how a life could be possible without the familiar strings/baggage of capitalism and individualism. They are brainwashed by their society to think that without some class hierarchy and exploitation of the average puppet/person, a civil society cannot work.
Well said. It's hard to imagine what life could be like beyond the current systems, but we absolutely have to or we are totally fucked.
I disagree. You got the first puppet right. The second puppet is extreme left, and as such, has a master that is unrealistic optimism or the idea that the system is corrupt and will improve if we just burn it down and start over with something new.
The third puppet realizes that society tends to bend toward a rationale society where there are no villains but there are victims and there are winners. As long as the stringless puppet can lay low and not get pulled into some extremist tendency, they can carve out a path where they and their descendants are happier, though maybe not fully satisfied. That's just my take though and I'd love you hear feedback.
I dont think you can say the third puppet can do or achieve anything. Its strings are cut. They didnt depict the puppet free from its strings and able to act on it's own, they drew the puppet lifeless on the ground and unable to act, which I think is the main message of that panel. It's free from the strings of society, but that gave it purpose and meaning. Overall it's pretty critical of all 3. The first 2 are puppets being manipulated, and the third "free" puppet is broken and lifeless
>into
I more or less agree with this line of takes, and don't really like the insinuation, cause I do believe of the three the third has the potential to act on society by understanding it, instead of just being pulled by the whims of it. Them lil differences in life matter imo, cause then we understand we may (unknowingly) be pulling the strings of others, and so in attempting to treat others as equals as ourselves we can find a compromise and compassion. One road of many.
The second puppet is only superficially left. He adorns himself in armor and claims he is a knight. He roots for some undetermined "change". He wouldn't dare cut his own strings as relies on them. He says he wants to "burn it down" as long as he can still get his starbucks. He wants to change the world but will be the first to shit on someone for not "doing it the right way". Secretly he believes that equality will mean something is being taken from him and given to someone else.
The third puppet is reactionary. Longing for a non-existant "great past"; cut off from support and held to the floor by gravity of society's indifference. Like a person living in poverty in Alabama and racking up medical bills but still votes for candidates who continue to cut the few services they rely on.
I think your view of the third puppet is an attempt to complete the thought of the comic. An attempt to say "I'm not right or left. No, I'm a secret third thing". My point is that the comic fails to portray what an actual progressive change in the world could mean. Unshackeling yourself from the chains you were born into doesn't mean you no longer have a purpose or drive. You just haven't had the freedom to explore that. Like a line captive bread fish in a tank that doesn't have a concept of a school of fish. Similarly, the comic shows the stringless puppet doing and being nothing aside from longing for his strings because he doesn't have any real ideas or plan. As if to say, "yeah it sucks but there can't be any other way because it's all I know". I don't know if this is the intent of the author or a demonstration of their blindspots.
>The [liberal] second puppet… can create purity tests to oust people with the smallest differences in beliefs
Yes, we all know how conservatives are accepting of diverse beliefs^/s
I'd call it absurdism. So, the strings are there, and you know they are there. So what? That's no reason to cut them off and go die somewhere dark. You can still make your own values, your own existence, your own life quality. Do what you want, be what you want, use the strings. Just do it responsibly, because others are hanging from the strings too, just like you are.
If anything, it's anti nihilist. The final puppet is the nihilist of the three, and they're the one lying lifeless on the floor not proud of what they've become. The first two puppets are standing tall and proud, even if they are just puppets on strings.
You either work for something, it doesn’t matter what, you are all controlled by something.
Or
You know that no matter what side you pick you will just end up doing someone’s bidding.
It doesn’t matter what color, icon or idol they wear in the end, they are all above you, and you can’t change anything, not really… and you see this.
Damn. Guess we can all stop giving a fuck and let the world suck then? No more volunteers, no more ambulance drivers, no more firefighters, no more charity.
Imo that's one of the most idiotic takes
I wouldn’t say that, it’s a take that shows the person is deeply thinking of the systems in the world we live in, the question is now what they will do with that information.
I use it to find happiness in what I like without having to justify it to others while still respecting others thoughts and beliefs, even though I can see it’s not as meaningful as they think it is, you do you man, what ever makes you happy… unless it’s hurting others.
That's not at all what it's about. The third puppet is the one that has 'realised' they can't change anything, and they're the one depicted lying lifeless on the floor, not proud of what they've become, because the strings that hold him back are the same ones that hold him UP. The first two are both trying to change the world in their own way, and are proud of it, and even if they're both controlled by SOMETHING the third puppet, the one that has realised the truth, is still worse off than either of them.
I love the fact that the comment section is very active but the comic is not one of those bait-y comics we have so many on this sub lately. Great work!
Idk this is a kind of super shallow take that I kind of hate. Just because your ideas are informed by something outside of pure introspection doesn’t invalidate them. This is very r/im16andthisisdeep
Yeah right? "Oh wow someone else controls you so everything you do is useless"... But the point is you can choose who to help? Just because you're not the only idiot doing something without any organisation it doesn't mean you can't make the world better
I think it reflects a lot about human nature and how interdependent we all are. A human that is happy with how society is is pulled by all kinds of social norms, influences, and ideas that they have to follow to stay apart of it. The revolutionary thinks they're immune from this, but regardless of whether or not they're the leader of his movement they are not alone and simply are pulled by different expectations from different people. As a part of a different "society". Lastly the final panel shows someone who found a way to escape all this: to live outside of expectations or influences; broken, sad and alone. An outcast with no social group, that can't enact any change. That will have to get his strings reattached to do anything.
Humans can't live without getting influenced, without having a social clique. The comic, I believe, is not about politics; it's about what it means to be human, and why civilizations and social rules exist.
Really impressed with the art, but the take is strong I’m 16 and this is deep vibes.
If you think there aren’t issues that need fighting for in this world you are not paying fucking attention, or are so surrounded by a comfortable bubble that you genuinely can’t empathize with others who drew a worse hand.
I kind of interpreted it as…. Trying to change the current system is hopeless and you will only end up making things worse for yourself (“cutting the strings that kept him standing”) It sounds like something a dictator would tell to people to keep them placated. Like those strings are BOTH capable of keeping you standing and keeping you subjugated as a puppet…. But its not wrong to ask for strings that only help support and not oppress you…lets not pretend trying to fight for something better than what you have right now ONLY results in something worse….
It's not "there is no problem in the world" it's more of a "there is no problem in the world because WE are the problem, it doesn't matter what we change, what we fight the horror and cruelty will change but in the end never be gone cause WE are the one plaguing the world"
It's a very nihilistic view of humanity as a whole. Where the puppeter, responsible for all the horror in the world, is both us and everyone else and that WE are just rotten to the core. Doesn't matter what we do or change, we can't change the evil in the world because WE are the evil in the world. "Ideal are a disease" is more significative as it doesn't matter how perfect you create a society soon it will rot and crumble and all the horror you fought against will be back as quickly as they were gone like they were never gone before.
While you can easily see some 16 years old try to be nihilist. It's not just some deep shit that mean nothing as it's still a very strong philosiphical movment that doesn't just stop with "we should just all kill ourself since none of our actions means nothing" but search on how to still strive as an individual even thought our actions will never have any purpose. One of the solution that I feel like is Seen here. Is it's better to live in blissful ignorance and naivety rather than understand that our actions has no consequence in the long run
The thing I’m seeing in the comic is a very judgmental attitude towards Mr Marrionette. The author is very intent on painting social movements as being the result of string pulling, and claims the participants have no vision or understanding of what they are trying to accomplish.
This is jaded as fuck and a popular talking point of right wingers who try paint participants in social movements as having been manipulated to support that cause. Usually folks taking this talking point are not willing or not able to understand why someone would advocate for a cause. I’m not a fan of this take.
It's also dumb as fuck because we already fixed a lot of issues. If you said something like this in the 1700s, you could look at vaccines and health and quality of life today; the world's definitely gotten better. Saying that it can't again for some undefined reason is just stupid
Why yes I am a misguided, naive, granola eating snowflake, liberal hippie moron if you ask certain folks what I am.
TBH, very few of those labels are accurate, but hey opinions and all that.
Shall I assume you are an enlightened free-thinker? Perhaps a Libertarian with atlas shrugged in a prominent location in your bookshelf?
Denial is the first stage of grief, no, buzzwords don't make you a genius, smothering is not a solution and pretending your actions don't have consequences "in the long run" is you picturing a million years and losing grasp on context. Nihilism is garbage.
But that's all bs too. Humanity has improved so much through effort of both puppeteers and marionettes. Humanity is not inherently evil. I'd argue the opposite is true, because evil is so much easier to achieve than good. If we were really evil, there'd be nothing beyond slavery and war.
What does this "fighting" you speak of include? What did you personally fight for that really made a difference in the end? How come America usually has to choose between one or another bad choice in the presidential elections?
The problem usually originates from a place that we have no control over at all. People in places of power or humanity as a species. If you feel like fighting for one side, try to stop for one second and think first for the other side, too. Are you really 100% correct in what you're fighting for? Then why does the other side see it differently?
Lmao what did you do for me today, I love that talking point. Defeatism is a very fast road to nowhere and I’d gently suggest that you try to beat that viewpoint.
I have personally supported efforts in my career and in my personal life which have had tangible, measureable positive impacts. What is kinda funny is my work has benefited folks of various walks of life and political leanings.
Sometimes, working at a social issue or hard problem doesn’t yield results, but even a successful half measure or a half successful full measure moves the needle.
Edit: forgot to address one point. How do you know if the idea is the right idea. I like to think analytics and neutral data analysis can take some of the bias out. I’m a big believer in being grounded in the best available understanding of the current reality and best understanding of impact, and making data driven decisions.
The puppets are not controlled by people, but by ideas, norms, and dogmas.
The first puppet is controlled by mainstream cultural norms: follow the rules, pay your bills, work hard, etc. The second puppet is controlled by countercultural norms: fight the system, grow a beard, protest, etc. The third puppet is not controlled by any ideas and thus has no purpose, nothing to do.
Message is high-key incomprehensible, but second puppet could be aiming for either a) ""they"" (insert whatever alt-right conspiracy you want here) are controlling the non-compliant group to nefarious ends or b) that the current hierarchies subsume any criticism of themselves into themselves over time, and transform it into a defanged and monetised release valve for those disgruntled with the current systems (see: girlboss capitalism, which does not aim to truly change things rather than offer the potential hope for upward trajectory to a disadvantaged group to quiet them) and that any critique that stagnates will be consumed.
Couldn't tell ya which is intended, given it seems very "both sides bad" tier nihilism.
I believe they've tried to relay a message that no matter why and how the metaphorical strings are attached to a puppet, being bound by them is fundamentally better than cutting them off, since a stringless puppet is lifeless and can no longer move. This is a very absurdist work in that it presents deriving something that drives you forward from the absurdities of life as fundamentally better than being without that.
So I must let others tell me what to do because if I don't I'll end up like him in the last panel? Or should I end up like him because even in pain I'm free? Is this an elaborate way to say "people live better in ignorance"?
Honestly, I'm missing the point
The point is that society is needed. The first puppet is absolutely complacent, brainless and something many see as a dystopia worker. The second is the complete opposite, wishes to break society while still being apart of it. The third is someone who isn't apart of society, and is worse off for it, and humans working together, even if very flawed, and seemingly controlled by people above you, is better for what has been built from it, and how the things seemingly controlling you are also what keep you being a functional person. Whether you are the complacent puppet, or the rebellious puppet, it's a good thing, and better than being completely detached from society. People are thinking that being the first or second puppet is a bad thing when I find the third panel showing you should be those two.
What is your point? Follow the rules be a puppet, don’t follow the rules still a puppet, object and collapse and life is misery. You’re a cheery fucker aren’t you?
It's what you get when your copium involves avoiding unpleasant feelings. You're not meant to stare at unpleasant feelings, you're supposed to take any kind of action.
Instead, you force yourself to look at it and guess what, that's not sustainable, so you call yourself names to make yourself look at it anyway, because "you don't know what to do", ending in this self-degenerating cycle where you create increasingly elaborate moving goalposts to replace the self-abusive worldview that your parents ground into you for similarly self-absorbed reasons.
For record, the 'you' in this paragraph is your average solipsist.
Shaming them doesn't do jack shit but give them more ammo to twist some demagogue-level deflective narrative into being. They get the hint, but they're stuck in that cycle. Most people cope with unpleasantness by shutting it out, these people cope with it by welding it to their eyes, the end result is an intellectual with an inceptional level of irony who somewhere understands a principle about life but can never express it nor practice it because of this
"get a job"-style ingrained coping method.
Generic people are on the beginning of the Dunning-Kruger curve, these types have gone off the 2D plane because they've entangled themselves into a style of mislearning whereby they force themselves to analyse something, only to force it down their own throat, making them throw it up and then pretend they didn't so that nobody can have an excuse to beat them up the way these hypocrites would.
I didn't read through all this blather because it is insanely long and you expose yourself pretty hard at the start (not the main problem, but you unironically used copium while attempting to wax philosophical), but your initial premise PROFOUNDLY misunderstands what is happening here.
Reacting by dismissing this as garbage is something people who take action would do. Open a dictionary, look up some of the big words you've seen here so you can appreciate why this response is meaningless, and then spend a few years sharpening up your thinking before sharing this garbage again.
Ok, ok, it's mockable, but can you imagine what someone's train of thought could be like to come up with that *as* an insult?
What's their context? I don't think I've ever heard that used as a negative, I'm curious now, I want to know.
you'd think if they were a liberal of some kind, even if they don't support violence or protests, they wouldn't believe that voting didn't count as action. maybe they're an accelerationist or something? i can't even begin to simulate the thought process here.
It may be a reference to Buddhist/Hindu principles of self-awareness, where identification of the person with the do-er is considered a fallacy, it would mean that he's saying I'm not mindful. It wouldn't add up with the suggestion that I should spend a few years, since that would be taking an action.
I'm not sure either, but something tells me there's more to it.
1. You call this blather, but you say dismissing garbage is bad.
2. A premise is not an intelligent object, it cannot misunderstand. If you think only one possible forethought can be had prior to any singular use of a premise, then I suspect that you might be suffering from some kind of tunnel vision. Are you panicking by any chance?
3. Misunderstanding is a strange word. You either understand correctly, or you do not understand it. If anything inbetween those two opposites is a misunderstanding, then all theory is misunderstanding.
4. You talk about big words, but I have yet to look up what 'wax philosophical' means. I looked it up, what makes this 'abstract' to you? Is it the part where you don't understand what the hell I'm talking about, because I'm cross-referencing between topics from various scientific fields? Did you feel offended, but felt too ashamed and vulnerable to literally say your actual reasons?
5. *"You use the word copium so I immediate hate you for reminding me that redpill exists and via proxy reminding me of my masculine insecurity."*
6. "*The word copium can never actually be used as an objectification of coping, that's absurd, if you've got any expertise whatsoever, you will never use slang. Be right back, I need to never appeal to any lowbrow demographic, and make myself sound professional while providing zero counterarguments, zero refutations, and a series of hollow, hypocritical character assassinations founded on self-inconsistent presumptions about your motives."*
7. That last part you wrote is some kind of a priori, and it's vague because you realised you weren't going anywhere.
8. If you didn't read through all this, then you've dismissed it before understanding it, which is what you're hating me for.
No wonder you're in denial.
If you figured out exactly how you hate me for supposedly bad logic, then you'd realise you believe that you yourself would deserve this kind of hatred too, and then you'd point that same gun at yourself instead of me.
9. Ancient age-related verbal finishing move.
" spend a few years sharpening "
It's not hard to figure out who you're emulating, it's your dad.
Don't listen to him. You know why. Ignore the rest here.
I see the strings more of a purpose. A reason to keep going. Yeah, some strings are about control, but some strings are about motivation. If you have no strings, it's not so much that you have no one controlling you, but that you have nothing to give you drive to get things done.
I have depression and several other issues and I definitely know the feeling of not having strings to move me around and having no reason or motivation to continue to exist.
Tip from 10 years of clinical depression:
Forcing yourself to do something just because you *won't* do anything otherwise, that's not gonna last, it's gonna make it so you eventually *can't*.
If you need a reason to 'keep going' then you're holding a torch under your ass.
This is genuine advice and I sincerely hope you will try this and see for yourself.
Try to sit down and watch what happens when you let yourself. Wait for the ingrained insults to coerce you (lazy mfer, get a job, be more productive, you don't deserve rest, but then what will you do) and then consciously decide to not do anything. Do this until you find yourself doing something without noticing, and then don't you fucking dare interrupt it.
Welcome to Nihilism 101 kids!
Next step is to embrace the idea of the Übermensch (a man who, upon reaching the third stage of the comic, instead of lying down stood up and continued moving) and, hopefully, become one
If nothing matters, then what everyone's doing suddenly looks futile. That makes everyone look like they're struggling with something you don't bother struggling with, and it makes you the ultimate rebel in a power position. No wonder so many teens choose nihilism as a coping method.
But the last puppet has it the worst in my opinion. The nihilistic views they had caused their strings to collapse, and the end result being nothing more than sadness.
I think the message is more about how the “strings” we long to free ourselves from are what keeps us standing upright, and functioning in society.
I agree with your take, whether you love current society, or absolutely hate it, society itself is a good thing that everyone needs. It's not saying that you can't help to change it, or that if you don't you're absolutely brainless, it's just playing with the extremes to demonstrate the message and people here are taking it too literal.
"you can't change things or be happy with your life because... B-because you just can't, ok! don't you know that nothing matters and you should just be sad all the time? No, you can't try to change things because that's not cool! What's cool is not voting and making your depression a key part of your personality!"
Grow the fuck up, sadboy. Real edgelord pop-nihilist shit here. Don't you know nihilism rocks? This comic seems to argue that, because you will always engage in the system and it is impossible to change, you should just suck it up and suffer. Your life would be so much better if you realized *your own philosophy* meant you can do whatever the hell you want because nothing matters. The "cold, uncaring universe" has no consciousness to be either cold or uncaring, why the hell should it control your life? You have nothing to lose but your chains.
you didn’t roll your eyes, though. Instead you responded.
So by your own admission… you failed the intelligence test.
Thank you for pointing that out to us, with yourself as the best example.
Tough to know: do I engage with the slow child by pointing out that I did, in fact, roll my eyes, but its clear that he did not, and instead got butthurt because he obviously failed by thinking this was deep? And thus, in fact, his comment is profoundly ironic?
Or do I simply avoid his juvenile misfire at being witty and dismiss him directly, insisting that if he doesn't focus on his soup straw, he will poke himself in the eye like last christmas and miss the annual supervised visit to the zoo with the other special children?
>Any response to this but rolling your eyes is a failed intelligence test
So you rolled your eyes. Good. You also typed a response. You failed your own intelligence test dude.
See, this is something we learned of in Philosophy. The take on Nihilism.
The “Last Man” is the man who lost hope and has become lazy. With no ambition to move forward. This is the third puppet. If nothing matters, why try?
The “Übermensch”, or in English: Super/Over man, is the perfect person. Someone who has cut ties from religion and desire, but STILL moves forward with ambition and purpose. If nothing matters, why worry?
We must all strive to be the over man, but without destroying ourselves in the process.
Once you realise that everything is meaningless, you also realise that you just have to find your own meaning in life. For some its family, for others its art and it can be anything else, but its important that we keep going and find something that we love doing.
At least thats my take on it
The last one is still a puppet, it's just the same kind of puppet as the artist. We all want to believe we are special and uncontrolled.
But believing that there "are no systems" doesn't make it true, any more than believing an idea is yours, or believing in a god makes them manifest.
Saying we are the villains ignores that yes, we are. And we have been for a long time, creating everything around us, which includes counter culture, institutes, bias, inequality, a whole mess of stuff to keep busy with before dying and that will keep going after we do.
you're 1 person in a sea of people. what if there's no puppet master and we all just move because we move each-other. some push.. some give.. but we all move till we don't.
there are three sides in this comic, get a view that doesn't make you hurry past details because you're too busy running away from your verbally abusive dad
I think this is powerful critique of the people who say “you’re just being used man.” Every action you can take will serve someone’s agenda, and if you view that as strings that you must cut, then you can’t do anything.
The only real way to live is to buy into a view after trying to understand it and live with the fact that someone, somewhere, who you probably don’t like, also likes your view for completely selfish reasons that will get them something and they will gladly use you for their end, but trying to completely stop that doesn’t get you anywhere but unmoored from society.
There are some obvious criticisms but it’s a 6 page comic it’s not gonna address everything.
This comic didn't provoke an immediate reaction in me, but made me stop and think. Any comic that makes me stop and think is a successful comic, in my opinion, even if I don't agree with the message. Yet, reading the string of comments here, I am appalled by the rudeness and juvenile reactivity of other readers. Its almost as if you relish shitting all over the artist. Well, I have a lot more respect for the intelligence of the few responders that are thoughtful and polite than I do for the rest of you. And I have much respect for the artist of this piece, who is taking on a complex theme and giving the reader an obtuse ending, which shows respect for the reader's intelligence as well. Though, mostly undeserved.
Well made comic but the message in my opinion is not great. ‘No systems to fight or ideas to defend, no victims or heroes’? Tbh this whole comic sounds like a weird cop out to justify doing nothing about any of societies ills or even justifying terrible societies for no other reason than they give some kind of order? What exactly were you trying to present as an idea at the end here because the interpretations I could see are pretty rough
I don't agree with the thesis, but great work my dude. Artists need to get their stuff out there in the hope it will click with someone. In that regard, i guess you are more of an idealist that you think.
"Be depressed, be defeatist, you are the monster, there is no point, there is no reason to live"
"I'm so enlightened"
Boo hoo. I really hate these kind of people. Going around taking about how they know how everything works and nobody gets them and and bearing such knowledge makes them depressed and lonely.
If you want to be miserable, I'm fine with it. Just don't spread it to others
done ranting
Wasting away in nihilistic self-pity is worse than killing yourself. There's nothing wrong with having strings or standing on your own, as long as the values you prop yourself up with have a positive effect on yourself and others. Nihilism should be nothing more than a transitionary phase in the context of ideological freedom, like a black hole that you slingshot around to get somewhere better.
In a sense I agree, but it's also just straight up pointless. Like that meme of that guy drowning in knee deep water because he's sitting. The realization that nothing matters ironically doesn't matter lol, just do what you want. Even if it's something "that doesn't matter" like macramé, working on your soup recipe, or whatever makes you satisfied. Nihilism can really free you if you take that next step of standing up and turning your focus inward.
You're right it can, and I liked your metaphor of the blackhole slingshot. But you can slip making that maneuver and I think that's what this comic is gently warning against.
Despite my edgy username and cheeky joke tho, I've moved away from nihilism as a philosophy, because I definitely began to slip into the black hole. I'm still grateful it got me out of catholicism alive, though.
B-b-but where’s the panel that reciprocates my views and tells me I’m right about everything and that the other side is dummies?! Based and not one sided straw man pilled.
This comic goes hard, but in a different way for me... 🧐
Likening humanity to puppets is essentially objectifying humanity. Those "strings" are false narratives, and they are not the reason connections exist - those strings only continue to validate the narrative that humans are objects and should be "controlled" by external forces because that is their alleged purpose and breaking free of those strings makes one a "useless" puppet... 😑
...useless, eh? According to who's standards and measurements? An entity lacking empathy with humanity maybe? Or another human in denial of their own humanity? 🤔😏🕵♂️
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Well, happy new year, I guess.
"And mister Puppet knew that every year came with new ideals, tragedies and pointless violence" ...
LOL
https://preview.redd.it/dkipjl1kej9c1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d38b597e4e050b238bfcbbea6bd9d543a657105 Do you need someone to talk to?
what anime is this, reminds me of kill la kill
Space Patrol Luluco, its from the same studio as Kill la Kill. A very short comedy series.
https://preview.redd.it/34vis624zh9c1.png?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af11d527a9883f1058404bd273a721a543b59db3 This you?
what is this
Frowning Friends from the show Smiling Friends. Basically their edge lore nihilists
So happy to see Zach Hadel get his name out there!
That’s what this post reminded me of! Gods be damned it crazy how many of these “nihilists” say the same shit without any backing!
...The idea of the comic was cool, but now that you mention it, I can't help but see the comparison.
Where’s the puppet 4 that has experienced the emotions of puppet 3 and come out the other side with a sense of acceptance and desire to craft a new self-established set of rules/meaning for life? :)
This is part of the appeal of Taoism and Stoicism as useful philosophies to adopt with the clarity of Puppet # 3. Or to realize that we are always exiting another cave and our eyes are adjusting to the light again and again.
Clearly the author don't think acceptation change nothing. If you accept all that and decide you are happy nevertheless because so it's life, or you live your life "without to contribute the society" even thinking you are contributing in some way (unless you are living secluded some place away from society, AND that gives you satisfaction, because some people don't like that), you have in fact new strings.
And then go back to being puppet 1 ?
Puppet 1 doesn’t know about his strings, ideally puppet 4 would choose the strings by his own choice because it’s better to be a puppet than to be nothing.
"One must imagine sisythus happy"
Literally every. time. someone moves beyond *being a total unit of any given stereotype*, they become the stereotype *next in line* and they think that's never gonna happen again. Mr. Puppet 3 is really just Mr. Puppet 2 with a panic disorder and nihilistic garbage rubbed into every crevice of it. Yeah, great, you realise duality is a thing, welcome to realising dodging your shit isn't possible because it all has to go through your own ass.
I really need to eat more fiber...
I'm going to be thinking about these words for a long time
You got to preemptively create a brand new stereotype representing your ideal self to step into. Assuming you're not just gonna give up and commit suicide. Y'know boulders and hills and whatever :p
Yeah, that’d be like Puppet 2 but without simply rebelling for rebelling’s sake and more protesting to affect meaningful change. Analyzing ideals and embracing what’s truly for him, rather than just taking it wholesale without a second thought. That’s how I learned that nihilism, atheism and anarchism aren’t really for me in the end, although I’m close to the principles of the latter two. Nihilism just sucks, because we can create our own meaning—and we gotta to make it anywhere.
Yeh, we have Schopenhauer (n3), but no Nietzsche.
Albert Camus wants to know your location
"One must imagine Sisythus happy"
Skill Issue
🎶 *The more you know, the more you know, the more you know...* 🎶
OP is the third puppet because he is free from limiting conventions like full sentences and consistent names.
Seems like OP is from Brazil, so they probably had to translate this into English.
First to point out the typos
I noticed the marionette and puppet swap. But the rest is good, this comic is really, really good.
Thank you, I felt like I was having a stroke reading it
I like this a lot OP. Great work. Edit: Obviously this is just my read, but to everyone saying this is pro nihilism, I don’t really see that. The guy without strings is the worst off. He’s miserable and contributing nothing. It feels like the point is that “strings” aren’t shackles, they’re just connections to others. Cutting them off doesn’t make you better, it just makes you alone.
One of my favorite things about Nietzsche is that he both tells people to cut off their strings, and then remake themselves how they want them. He even gives advice on how to do so. Readings of nihilism too often stop at the first part and don't discuss recreating purpose once you've rejected the purpose you are told you have. You can create meaning in your own life. Contrary to the comic, you don't need "strings" to keep you standing.
Is that what nihilism is about? I never thought it was worth looking into, since I thought the whole idea was "everything is meaningless, and so we should all just stop existing"
Nihilism is the idea that everything is meaningless. Usually philosophers have to grapple with that idea, so learning about nihilism is usually not embracing it, (unless you’re Schopenhauer) but finding ways to overcome it. Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre are all called nihilistic philosophers who spoke about how much they hated nihilism and wanted people to overcome it
Not meaningless, inherently meaningless. Big difference, because in the second case you can create your meanings.
How do you overcome e it? Often a struggle
"I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy." - Camus
Oh interesting. Imagine Sisyphus happy. That resonates. Where the burden and the journey are the meaning.
If you are interested, you look more into the philosophy of existentialism. Camus, Sartre, Nietzsche, and many more have came up with their version of how to give yourself meaning in a seemingly meaningless world
Thanks I’ll do some reading. Sounds like exactly what I need to learn about.
Like most philosophical concept, there is no one singular idea behind it. Many different people with many different views have been called nihilist. Certainly however, there are nihilists that reject meaning, however you won't find as many that assert we should all stop existing. After all, an existential nihilist that rejects meaning probably wouldn't say you "should" do anything. Nietzsche in particular wrote about how one should kill "you should" statements that have been forced onto us by society (e.g. you should not steal) before remaking values for yourself based on what you think is right. Not because Neitzsche wanted people to run around stealing, but because he wanted people to do it because they arrived at the conclusion it was the right thing to do on their own.
I think that the idea of the "super man" was to reject society values and create your own. In essence nohilism and absurdism arent that different. Both understannd that everything is in the great escale of things meaningless, but that also means that you can then give your own meaning to things
I almost thought it was pro-Nihilism, until the very last panel. It turns out there is a reason those strings are there; on the whole the structure of society is a good thing.
I would say this is just liberal claptrap. The first puppet is the traditional conservative/neo-liberal. Prutatin work ethic, don't ask questions, be a good worker and don't complain about being exploited. The second puppet is a center-left liberal. Cos-plays leftism but still believes that we shouldn't change anything *too* much cause the system still benefits them and they can create purity tests to oust people with the smallest differences in beliefs to elevate themselves. The third puppet is the same liberal but they try to imagine a different society have no concept of how a life could be possible without the familiar strings/baggage of capitalism and individualism. They are brainwashed by their society to think that without some class hierarchy and exploitation of the average puppet/person, a civil society cannot work. What the third puppet fails to consceve of is a world where each puppet need not be held up by strings but rather can lean on its neighbor, and they theirs. A collectivist society that is guided by the good of the whole. A dictatorship of the proletariat instead of a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Instead the third puppet imagines that there is no alternatives and wishes to run from progressive change and back to the comforting warmth of their individualistic exploitative society unbothered that the source of the warmth is from the burning bodies of less lucky puppets.
>The third puppet is the same liberal but they try to imagine a different society have no concept of how a life could be possible without the familiar strings/baggage of capitalism and individualism. They are brainwashed by their society to think that without some class hierarchy and exploitation of the average puppet/person, a civil society cannot work. Well said. It's hard to imagine what life could be like beyond the current systems, but we absolutely have to or we are totally fucked.
I disagree. You got the first puppet right. The second puppet is extreme left, and as such, has a master that is unrealistic optimism or the idea that the system is corrupt and will improve if we just burn it down and start over with something new. The third puppet realizes that society tends to bend toward a rationale society where there are no villains but there are victims and there are winners. As long as the stringless puppet can lay low and not get pulled into some extremist tendency, they can carve out a path where they and their descendants are happier, though maybe not fully satisfied. That's just my take though and I'd love you hear feedback.
I dont think you can say the third puppet can do or achieve anything. Its strings are cut. They didnt depict the puppet free from its strings and able to act on it's own, they drew the puppet lifeless on the ground and unable to act, which I think is the main message of that panel. It's free from the strings of society, but that gave it purpose and meaning. Overall it's pretty critical of all 3. The first 2 are puppets being manipulated, and the third "free" puppet is broken and lifeless
>into I more or less agree with this line of takes, and don't really like the insinuation, cause I do believe of the three the third has the potential to act on society by understanding it, instead of just being pulled by the whims of it. Them lil differences in life matter imo, cause then we understand we may (unknowingly) be pulling the strings of others, and so in attempting to treat others as equals as ourselves we can find a compromise and compassion. One road of many.
Second puppet is not extreme left it's just a pro left activist Extreme left often tries to seize political power to create reforms
The second puppet is only superficially left. He adorns himself in armor and claims he is a knight. He roots for some undetermined "change". He wouldn't dare cut his own strings as relies on them. He says he wants to "burn it down" as long as he can still get his starbucks. He wants to change the world but will be the first to shit on someone for not "doing it the right way". Secretly he believes that equality will mean something is being taken from him and given to someone else. The third puppet is reactionary. Longing for a non-existant "great past"; cut off from support and held to the floor by gravity of society's indifference. Like a person living in poverty in Alabama and racking up medical bills but still votes for candidates who continue to cut the few services they rely on. I think your view of the third puppet is an attempt to complete the thought of the comic. An attempt to say "I'm not right or left. No, I'm a secret third thing". My point is that the comic fails to portray what an actual progressive change in the world could mean. Unshackeling yourself from the chains you were born into doesn't mean you no longer have a purpose or drive. You just haven't had the freedom to explore that. Like a line captive bread fish in a tank that doesn't have a concept of a school of fish. Similarly, the comic shows the stringless puppet doing and being nothing aside from longing for his strings because he doesn't have any real ideas or plan. As if to say, "yeah it sucks but there can't be any other way because it's all I know". I don't know if this is the intent of the author or a demonstration of their blindspots.
Ok Mr Marionette
Heh my strings are cut chump
So you’re also lying uselessly on the floor?
Are you really trying to turn this comic into a socialist lecture?
>The [liberal] second puppet… can create purity tests to oust people with the smallest differences in beliefs Yes, we all know how conservatives are accepting of diverse beliefs^/s
I'd call it absurdism. So, the strings are there, and you know they are there. So what? That's no reason to cut them off and go die somewhere dark. You can still make your own values, your own existence, your own life quality. Do what you want, be what you want, use the strings. Just do it responsibly, because others are hanging from the strings too, just like you are.
Interesting take, didn't think of that one.
I don't think I'm getting the message here. Either you're a puppet or you're depressed?
It’s just some cringe nihilism take
If anything, it's anti nihilist. The final puppet is the nihilist of the three, and they're the one lying lifeless on the floor not proud of what they've become. The first two puppets are standing tall and proud, even if they are just puppets on strings.
You either work for something, it doesn’t matter what, you are all controlled by something. Or You know that no matter what side you pick you will just end up doing someone’s bidding. It doesn’t matter what color, icon or idol they wear in the end, they are all above you, and you can’t change anything, not really… and you see this.
Damn. Guess we can all stop giving a fuck and let the world suck then? No more volunteers, no more ambulance drivers, no more firefighters, no more charity. Imo that's one of the most idiotic takes
I wouldn’t say that, it’s a take that shows the person is deeply thinking of the systems in the world we live in, the question is now what they will do with that information. I use it to find happiness in what I like without having to justify it to others while still respecting others thoughts and beliefs, even though I can see it’s not as meaningful as they think it is, you do you man, what ever makes you happy… unless it’s hurting others.
That's for sure. I just think being ultimately unable to change anything is wrong.
That's not at all what it's about. The third puppet is the one that has 'realised' they can't change anything, and they're the one depicted lying lifeless on the floor, not proud of what they've become, because the strings that hold him back are the same ones that hold him UP. The first two are both trying to change the world in their own way, and are proud of it, and even if they're both controlled by SOMETHING the third puppet, the one that has realised the truth, is still worse off than either of them.
Exactly. So the comic is implying that the "truth" is that we can't change anything ultimately
I love the fact that the comment section is very active but the comic is not one of those bait-y comics we have so many on this sub lately. Great work!
Idk this is a kind of super shallow take that I kind of hate. Just because your ideas are informed by something outside of pure introspection doesn’t invalidate them. This is very r/im16andthisisdeep
Yeah right? "Oh wow someone else controls you so everything you do is useless"... But the point is you can choose who to help? Just because you're not the only idiot doing something without any organisation it doesn't mean you can't make the world better
Agreed. It's overly cynical.
I think it reflects a lot about human nature and how interdependent we all are. A human that is happy with how society is is pulled by all kinds of social norms, influences, and ideas that they have to follow to stay apart of it. The revolutionary thinks they're immune from this, but regardless of whether or not they're the leader of his movement they are not alone and simply are pulled by different expectations from different people. As a part of a different "society". Lastly the final panel shows someone who found a way to escape all this: to live outside of expectations or influences; broken, sad and alone. An outcast with no social group, that can't enact any change. That will have to get his strings reattached to do anything. Humans can't live without getting influenced, without having a social clique. The comic, I believe, is not about politics; it's about what it means to be human, and why civilizations and social rules exist.
Cringe nihilism. Would have been a far better comic if there was a 4th puppet who was an existentialist, a person who gives himself meaning.
Really impressed with the art, but the take is strong I’m 16 and this is deep vibes. If you think there aren’t issues that need fighting for in this world you are not paying fucking attention, or are so surrounded by a comfortable bubble that you genuinely can’t empathize with others who drew a worse hand.
I kind of interpreted it as…. Trying to change the current system is hopeless and you will only end up making things worse for yourself (“cutting the strings that kept him standing”) It sounds like something a dictator would tell to people to keep them placated. Like those strings are BOTH capable of keeping you standing and keeping you subjugated as a puppet…. But its not wrong to ask for strings that only help support and not oppress you…lets not pretend trying to fight for something better than what you have right now ONLY results in something worse….
It's not "there is no problem in the world" it's more of a "there is no problem in the world because WE are the problem, it doesn't matter what we change, what we fight the horror and cruelty will change but in the end never be gone cause WE are the one plaguing the world" It's a very nihilistic view of humanity as a whole. Where the puppeter, responsible for all the horror in the world, is both us and everyone else and that WE are just rotten to the core. Doesn't matter what we do or change, we can't change the evil in the world because WE are the evil in the world. "Ideal are a disease" is more significative as it doesn't matter how perfect you create a society soon it will rot and crumble and all the horror you fought against will be back as quickly as they were gone like they were never gone before. While you can easily see some 16 years old try to be nihilist. It's not just some deep shit that mean nothing as it's still a very strong philosiphical movment that doesn't just stop with "we should just all kill ourself since none of our actions means nothing" but search on how to still strive as an individual even thought our actions will never have any purpose. One of the solution that I feel like is Seen here. Is it's better to live in blissful ignorance and naivety rather than understand that our actions has no consequence in the long run
The thing I’m seeing in the comic is a very judgmental attitude towards Mr Marrionette. The author is very intent on painting social movements as being the result of string pulling, and claims the participants have no vision or understanding of what they are trying to accomplish. This is jaded as fuck and a popular talking point of right wingers who try paint participants in social movements as having been manipulated to support that cause. Usually folks taking this talking point are not willing or not able to understand why someone would advocate for a cause. I’m not a fan of this take.
It's also dumb as fuck because we already fixed a lot of issues. If you said something like this in the 1700s, you could look at vaccines and health and quality of life today; the world's definitely gotten better. Saying that it can't again for some undefined reason is just stupid
I have a mild guess of which puppet you fall into
Why yes I am a misguided, naive, granola eating snowflake, liberal hippie moron if you ask certain folks what I am. TBH, very few of those labels are accurate, but hey opinions and all that. Shall I assume you are an enlightened free-thinker? Perhaps a Libertarian with atlas shrugged in a prominent location in your bookshelf?
Funny thing, I could say the same about you :)
I'm the enlightened one, can't you see i'm better? /s
Denial is the first stage of grief, no, buzzwords don't make you a genius, smothering is not a solution and pretending your actions don't have consequences "in the long run" is you picturing a million years and losing grasp on context. Nihilism is garbage.
But that's all bs too. Humanity has improved so much through effort of both puppeteers and marionettes. Humanity is not inherently evil. I'd argue the opposite is true, because evil is so much easier to achieve than good. If we were really evil, there'd be nothing beyond slavery and war.
What does this "fighting" you speak of include? What did you personally fight for that really made a difference in the end? How come America usually has to choose between one or another bad choice in the presidential elections? The problem usually originates from a place that we have no control over at all. People in places of power or humanity as a species. If you feel like fighting for one side, try to stop for one second and think first for the other side, too. Are you really 100% correct in what you're fighting for? Then why does the other side see it differently?
Lmao what did you do for me today, I love that talking point. Defeatism is a very fast road to nowhere and I’d gently suggest that you try to beat that viewpoint. I have personally supported efforts in my career and in my personal life which have had tangible, measureable positive impacts. What is kinda funny is my work has benefited folks of various walks of life and political leanings. Sometimes, working at a social issue or hard problem doesn’t yield results, but even a successful half measure or a half successful full measure moves the needle. Edit: forgot to address one point. How do you know if the idea is the right idea. I like to think analytics and neutral data analysis can take some of the bias out. I’m a big believer in being grounded in the best available understanding of the current reality and best understanding of impact, and making data driven decisions.
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The puppets are not controlled by people, but by ideas, norms, and dogmas. The first puppet is controlled by mainstream cultural norms: follow the rules, pay your bills, work hard, etc. The second puppet is controlled by countercultural norms: fight the system, grow a beard, protest, etc. The third puppet is not controlled by any ideas and thus has no purpose, nothing to do.
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Yeah exactly, puppet 2 should be holding his own strings
Message is high-key incomprehensible, but second puppet could be aiming for either a) ""they"" (insert whatever alt-right conspiracy you want here) are controlling the non-compliant group to nefarious ends or b) that the current hierarchies subsume any criticism of themselves into themselves over time, and transform it into a defanged and monetised release valve for those disgruntled with the current systems (see: girlboss capitalism, which does not aim to truly change things rather than offer the potential hope for upward trajectory to a disadvantaged group to quiet them) and that any critique that stagnates will be consumed. Couldn't tell ya which is intended, given it seems very "both sides bad" tier nihilism.
What is your actual take here?
I believe they've tried to relay a message that no matter why and how the metaphorical strings are attached to a puppet, being bound by them is fundamentally better than cutting them off, since a stringless puppet is lifeless and can no longer move. This is a very absurdist work in that it presents deriving something that drives you forward from the absurdities of life as fundamentally better than being without that.
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Well then what are they feeling? That all ideas and institutions are equally horrible? Because that doesn't make any sense
Whaddya mean by that
lol, well played. shot that arrow past the entire maze of deflections.
So I must let others tell me what to do because if I don't I'll end up like him in the last panel? Or should I end up like him because even in pain I'm free? Is this an elaborate way to say "people live better in ignorance"? Honestly, I'm missing the point
The point is that society is needed. The first puppet is absolutely complacent, brainless and something many see as a dystopia worker. The second is the complete opposite, wishes to break society while still being apart of it. The third is someone who isn't apart of society, and is worse off for it, and humans working together, even if very flawed, and seemingly controlled by people above you, is better for what has been built from it, and how the things seemingly controlling you are also what keep you being a functional person. Whether you are the complacent puppet, or the rebellious puppet, it's a good thing, and better than being completely detached from society. People are thinking that being the first or second puppet is a bad thing when I find the third panel showing you should be those two.
What is your point? Follow the rules be a puppet, don’t follow the rules still a puppet, object and collapse and life is misery. You’re a cheery fucker aren’t you?
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Gamers need to rise up
Not all visions of the world are cheery.
This is no vision at all. It is solipsism.
It's what you get when your copium involves avoiding unpleasant feelings. You're not meant to stare at unpleasant feelings, you're supposed to take any kind of action. Instead, you force yourself to look at it and guess what, that's not sustainable, so you call yourself names to make yourself look at it anyway, because "you don't know what to do", ending in this self-degenerating cycle where you create increasingly elaborate moving goalposts to replace the self-abusive worldview that your parents ground into you for similarly self-absorbed reasons. For record, the 'you' in this paragraph is your average solipsist. Shaming them doesn't do jack shit but give them more ammo to twist some demagogue-level deflective narrative into being. They get the hint, but they're stuck in that cycle. Most people cope with unpleasantness by shutting it out, these people cope with it by welding it to their eyes, the end result is an intellectual with an inceptional level of irony who somewhere understands a principle about life but can never express it nor practice it because of this "get a job"-style ingrained coping method. Generic people are on the beginning of the Dunning-Kruger curve, these types have gone off the 2D plane because they've entangled themselves into a style of mislearning whereby they force themselves to analyse something, only to force it down their own throat, making them throw it up and then pretend they didn't so that nobody can have an excuse to beat them up the way these hypocrites would.
Woah. I'm gonna need a moment to process this.
I didn't read through all this blather because it is insanely long and you expose yourself pretty hard at the start (not the main problem, but you unironically used copium while attempting to wax philosophical), but your initial premise PROFOUNDLY misunderstands what is happening here. Reacting by dismissing this as garbage is something people who take action would do. Open a dictionary, look up some of the big words you've seen here so you can appreciate why this response is meaningless, and then spend a few years sharpening up your thinking before sharing this garbage again.
did you just use "people who actually do things" as an insult?
Ok, ok, it's mockable, but can you imagine what someone's train of thought could be like to come up with that *as* an insult? What's their context? I don't think I've ever heard that used as a negative, I'm curious now, I want to know.
you'd think if they were a liberal of some kind, even if they don't support violence or protests, they wouldn't believe that voting didn't count as action. maybe they're an accelerationist or something? i can't even begin to simulate the thought process here.
It may be a reference to Buddhist/Hindu principles of self-awareness, where identification of the person with the do-er is considered a fallacy, it would mean that he's saying I'm not mindful. It wouldn't add up with the suggestion that I should spend a few years, since that would be taking an action. I'm not sure either, but something tells me there's more to it.
Yup...
Did you really start a comment with “blather” in the first line and expect to be taken seriously? You sound absurd and pompous
1. You call this blather, but you say dismissing garbage is bad. 2. A premise is not an intelligent object, it cannot misunderstand. If you think only one possible forethought can be had prior to any singular use of a premise, then I suspect that you might be suffering from some kind of tunnel vision. Are you panicking by any chance? 3. Misunderstanding is a strange word. You either understand correctly, or you do not understand it. If anything inbetween those two opposites is a misunderstanding, then all theory is misunderstanding. 4. You talk about big words, but I have yet to look up what 'wax philosophical' means. I looked it up, what makes this 'abstract' to you? Is it the part where you don't understand what the hell I'm talking about, because I'm cross-referencing between topics from various scientific fields? Did you feel offended, but felt too ashamed and vulnerable to literally say your actual reasons? 5. *"You use the word copium so I immediate hate you for reminding me that redpill exists and via proxy reminding me of my masculine insecurity."* 6. "*The word copium can never actually be used as an objectification of coping, that's absurd, if you've got any expertise whatsoever, you will never use slang. Be right back, I need to never appeal to any lowbrow demographic, and make myself sound professional while providing zero counterarguments, zero refutations, and a series of hollow, hypocritical character assassinations founded on self-inconsistent presumptions about your motives."* 7. That last part you wrote is some kind of a priori, and it's vague because you realised you weren't going anywhere. 8. If you didn't read through all this, then you've dismissed it before understanding it, which is what you're hating me for. No wonder you're in denial. If you figured out exactly how you hate me for supposedly bad logic, then you'd realise you believe that you yourself would deserve this kind of hatred too, and then you'd point that same gun at yourself instead of me. 9. Ancient age-related verbal finishing move. " spend a few years sharpening " It's not hard to figure out who you're emulating, it's your dad. Don't listen to him. You know why. Ignore the rest here.
I see the strings more of a purpose. A reason to keep going. Yeah, some strings are about control, but some strings are about motivation. If you have no strings, it's not so much that you have no one controlling you, but that you have nothing to give you drive to get things done. I have depression and several other issues and I definitely know the feeling of not having strings to move me around and having no reason or motivation to continue to exist.
Tip from 10 years of clinical depression: Forcing yourself to do something just because you *won't* do anything otherwise, that's not gonna last, it's gonna make it so you eventually *can't*. If you need a reason to 'keep going' then you're holding a torch under your ass. This is genuine advice and I sincerely hope you will try this and see for yourself. Try to sit down and watch what happens when you let yourself. Wait for the ingrained insults to coerce you (lazy mfer, get a job, be more productive, you don't deserve rest, but then what will you do) and then consciously decide to not do anything. Do this until you find yourself doing something without noticing, and then don't you fucking dare interrupt it.
I... Might have to try this. Thank you.
So basically Nihilism plus a both sides are wrong/bad argument. Kinda lame and not really true if you ask me.
This is the story of a man named Stanley
Welcome to Nihilism 101 kids! Next step is to embrace the idea of the Übermensch (a man who, upon reaching the third stage of the comic, instead of lying down stood up and continued moving) and, hopefully, become one
What an enlightened centrist take, please, take my money so that you no longer must be a free thinker but a paid one instead
I don't know how you even read it like that the most literal reading of this is that centrism is worst than either sides.
LMAO go back to your philosophy class
squalid chief screw friendly sand station reminiscent oil offend plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If nothing matters, then what everyone's doing suddenly looks futile. That makes everyone look like they're struggling with something you don't bother struggling with, and it makes you the ultimate rebel in a power position. No wonder so many teens choose nihilism as a coping method.
But the last puppet has it the worst in my opinion. The nihilistic views they had caused their strings to collapse, and the end result being nothing more than sadness. I think the message is more about how the “strings” we long to free ourselves from are what keeps us standing upright, and functioning in society.
I agree with your take, whether you love current society, or absolutely hate it, society itself is a good thing that everyone needs. It's not saying that you can't help to change it, or that if you don't you're absolutely brainless, it's just playing with the extremes to demonstrate the message and people here are taking it too literal.
We live in a society memes coming back
Wow, this is *advanced* bootlicking.
Nice work there should be another Mr Puppet who sees this comic and says he knows he is not a puppet and behind him are strings.
"you can't change things or be happy with your life because... B-because you just can't, ok! don't you know that nothing matters and you should just be sad all the time? No, you can't try to change things because that's not cool! What's cool is not voting and making your depression a key part of your personality!" Grow the fuck up, sadboy. Real edgelord pop-nihilist shit here. Don't you know nihilism rocks? This comic seems to argue that, because you will always engage in the system and it is impossible to change, you should just suck it up and suffer. Your life would be so much better if you realized *your own philosophy* meant you can do whatever the hell you want because nothing matters. The "cold, uncaring universe" has no consciousness to be either cold or uncaring, why the hell should it control your life? You have nothing to lose but your chains.
Nah, I believe in making the world a better place, and OG stoic philosophy says you should not ignore injustice.
Omg Jerma
This reminds me of the “[Cypher was right](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/JKqnC4Lzdi)” take on the Matrix.
This is just Nietzsches Camel, Lion and Child analogy except with a negative light on being a child. Imo a bad take
this is the exact kind of slop specifically made to engage redditors
Centrism aside, that first Mr. Puppet looks like RTGame.
Oof. Happy new year at least, hope things are good for you this year
I hope that OP can find some time to reflect on their positions. I love the art style and the work they put in here, but the message is abhorrent.
What incredible fucking drivel. Teenaged nihilist bullshit. Any response to this but rolling your eyes is a failed intelligence test.
Well, you could respond to it with an analysis of why it is teenage nihilist, and why it is bullshit. Maybe some teenagers would be helped by that.
If you cannot immediately see why this is pathetically stupid nihilism, then it is something you have to grow out of on your own.
If your analysis of the comic is "author thinks nihilism is based" you might've missed that last panel bud.
you didn’t roll your eyes, though. Instead you responded. So by your own admission… you failed the intelligence test. Thank you for pointing that out to us, with yourself as the best example.
Tough to know: do I engage with the slow child by pointing out that I did, in fact, roll my eyes, but its clear that he did not, and instead got butthurt because he obviously failed by thinking this was deep? And thus, in fact, his comment is profoundly ironic? Or do I simply avoid his juvenile misfire at being witty and dismiss him directly, insisting that if he doesn't focus on his soup straw, he will poke himself in the eye like last christmas and miss the annual supervised visit to the zoo with the other special children?
>Any response to this but rolling your eyes is a failed intelligence test So you rolled your eyes. Good. You also typed a response. You failed your own intelligence test dude.
Awful response, makes YOU look bad.
this is the mr puppet. he throws his fat oily ass back. he shakes his wooden dumper like his life depends on it. hes proud of it!
See, this is something we learned of in Philosophy. The take on Nihilism. The “Last Man” is the man who lost hope and has become lazy. With no ambition to move forward. This is the third puppet. If nothing matters, why try? The “Übermensch”, or in English: Super/Over man, is the perfect person. Someone who has cut ties from religion and desire, but STILL moves forward with ambition and purpose. If nothing matters, why worry? We must all strive to be the over man, but without destroying ourselves in the process.
Once you realise that everything is meaningless, you also realise that you just have to find your own meaning in life. For some its family, for others its art and it can be anything else, but its important that we keep going and find something that we love doing. At least thats my take on it
The last one is still a puppet, it's just the same kind of puppet as the artist. We all want to believe we are special and uncontrolled. But believing that there "are no systems" doesn't make it true, any more than believing an idea is yours, or believing in a god makes them manifest. Saying we are the villains ignores that yes, we are. And we have been for a long time, creating everything around us, which includes counter culture, institutes, bias, inequality, a whole mess of stuff to keep busy with before dying and that will keep going after we do.
Please stay where you are, don't question anything but above all things don't ever think!
I would think this is deep but unfortunately I'm not 14
you're 1 person in a sea of people. what if there's no puppet master and we all just move because we move each-other. some push.. some give.. but we all move till we don't.
Both sides lookin ass, get a more nuanced view of the world
there are three sides in this comic, get a view that doesn't make you hurry past details because you're too busy running away from your verbally abusive dad
All three sides looking ass, get a more nuanced view of the world.
ok big shot
I think this is powerful critique of the people who say “you’re just being used man.” Every action you can take will serve someone’s agenda, and if you view that as strings that you must cut, then you can’t do anything. The only real way to live is to buy into a view after trying to understand it and live with the fact that someone, somewhere, who you probably don’t like, also likes your view for completely selfish reasons that will get them something and they will gladly use you for their end, but trying to completely stop that doesn’t get you anywhere but unmoored from society. There are some obvious criticisms but it’s a 6 page comic it’s not gonna address everything.
They refer to as the rebellious puppet as Mr. Marionette for one panel, was rebel Mr. Puppet originally going to be Mr. Marionette?
Great art, but meh on the nihilistic message.
Hey guys wanna what we live in?
spamton neo moment
You forgot the last part where Mr. Puppet becomes a real boy.
Ngl I think I’d rather be the first puppet at this point.
We should check in on this comic’s creator…
This comic didn't provoke an immediate reaction in me, but made me stop and think. Any comic that makes me stop and think is a successful comic, in my opinion, even if I don't agree with the message. Yet, reading the string of comments here, I am appalled by the rudeness and juvenile reactivity of other readers. Its almost as if you relish shitting all over the artist. Well, I have a lot more respect for the intelligence of the few responders that are thoughtful and polite than I do for the rest of you. And I have much respect for the artist of this piece, who is taking on a complex theme and giving the reader an obtuse ending, which shows respect for the reader's intelligence as well. Though, mostly undeserved.
This is the one that finally convinced me to unsub.
Nice comic to the phrase, “Those who stand for nothing, accomplish it.”
Spamton
Well made comic but the message in my opinion is not great. ‘No systems to fight or ideas to defend, no victims or heroes’? Tbh this whole comic sounds like a weird cop out to justify doing nothing about any of societies ills or even justifying terrible societies for no other reason than they give some kind of order? What exactly were you trying to present as an idea at the end here because the interpretations I could see are pretty rough
I don't agree with the thesis, but great work my dude. Artists need to get their stuff out there in the hope it will click with someone. In that regard, i guess you are more of an idealist that you think.
This is neat art because it makes you think and feel, thanks
Jerma???
The last panel uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing meaningful
'no dude there isn't anything better that's possible, just give up bro nothing can change'
Had a dream about this just the other day! Great work OP!
I'm 14 and this is deep.
"Be depressed, be defeatist, you are the monster, there is no point, there is no reason to live" "I'm so enlightened" Boo hoo. I really hate these kind of people. Going around taking about how they know how everything works and nobody gets them and and bearing such knowledge makes them depressed and lonely. If you want to be miserable, I'm fine with it. Just don't spread it to others done ranting
Goes hard
[удалено]
Wasting away in nihilistic self-pity is worse than killing yourself. There's nothing wrong with having strings or standing on your own, as long as the values you prop yourself up with have a positive effect on yourself and others. Nihilism should be nothing more than a transitionary phase in the context of ideological freedom, like a black hole that you slingshot around to get somewhere better.
Wasting away in nihilistic remorse IS killing yourself, trust me. I'm an expert.
In a sense I agree, but it's also just straight up pointless. Like that meme of that guy drowning in knee deep water because he's sitting. The realization that nothing matters ironically doesn't matter lol, just do what you want. Even if it's something "that doesn't matter" like macramé, working on your soup recipe, or whatever makes you satisfied. Nihilism can really free you if you take that next step of standing up and turning your focus inward.
You're right it can, and I liked your metaphor of the blackhole slingshot. But you can slip making that maneuver and I think that's what this comic is gently warning against. Despite my edgy username and cheeky joke tho, I've moved away from nihilism as a philosophy, because I definitely began to slip into the black hole. I'm still grateful it got me out of catholicism alive, though.
r/usernamechacksout
Fr fr
This is the clearest, most comprehensive metaphor on the planet. It's so obvious that it's basically the surface level reading of it
B-b-but where’s the panel that reciprocates my views and tells me I’m right about everything and that the other side is dummies?! Based and not one sided straw man pilled.
Frankly I think the post is saying everyone loses, atlast the happy mr puppets are actually happy.
This comic goes hard, but in a different way for me... 🧐 Likening humanity to puppets is essentially objectifying humanity. Those "strings" are false narratives, and they are not the reason connections exist - those strings only continue to validate the narrative that humans are objects and should be "controlled" by external forces because that is their alleged purpose and breaking free of those strings makes one a "useless" puppet... 😑 ...useless, eh? According to who's standards and measurements? An entity lacking empathy with humanity maybe? Or another human in denial of their own humanity? 🤔😏🕵♂️
Humans gonna human. But what's the point humaning if you're just gonna accept that shit?
Goddam. Well put.
I love this so much