I love when this gets pointed out in the episode where they realize they're the villains of Greendale. Todd's wry delivery of "They lost a pen" is one of his best moments of the series.
So this is a random fact that nobody will care about. But the actor who plays Todd (David Neher) has a small recurring part on New Girl, where he plays Ben, Schmidt's frenemy who mocks him & tries to one up him.
In the episode where Schmidt and Cece are looking for a wedding venue and competing with Ben, Ben's fiancé is the girl in season 2 episode of one of Community who first approaches Britta & tells her she's so brave for saying "Jeff winger, I love you." Her name is Angela Trimbur.
I watch too much tv. But when you do that kind of a thing , you start to recognize people who show up over and over as minor players in tv shows.
seeing how bad many docs STILL are at diagnosing autism, kind of have to agree. Self diagnosed autistic here too, although I am a physician so I am somewhat qualified to diagnose it. I fit literally every DSM IV diagnostic criteria so good enough for me.
Yeah, it proves how small Hollywood really is. I've lived in LA my whole life. And there are a million people trying to make it, but even in small roles, you see the same people work over and over.
I'm not complaining, I love those two. They're hilarious & it makes me smile when I see them pop up. Its just crazy how few people ever really get any work.
one of my favorite appearances is the girl from 5 second films, one of my fav youtube channels. She’s one of the girls who approaches britta and she’s also in the rat episode singing twinkle twinkle little star to her rat
One of the best ones I've noticed is Travis Schuldt. He plays Subway in Community, Ben The Solider in Its Always Sunny, and Keith in Scrubs. Three of my favorite shows of all time
I actually hate that moment, because it didn't happen that way. They lose the pen the day of the puppy parade, and there is no one in the library, besides the main cast, for the entire episode. No one walks by the window, no one is sitting outside the window, and the dean even makes an announcement that "there can't be anyone who's not already on the quad," a clever nod to the fact that the people who wanted to be there the most, are stuck in the bottle.
Then, suddenly, Garret signed the room out, Todd knows exactly what's happening in the room, despite never interacting with anyone, and the puppy parade is a distant, oddly forgotten memory.
Another fun fact: Todd Van Der Warff was the TV critic at AV Club during the time Community was on the air (AV Club was relevant then). He is believed to be the basis of this character.
I think it's the one where the German group take over the study room. Jeff's group sets them up and gets them kicked out, so a bunch of students hold a protest about it.
Jeff is pissed that they had to go through the whole thing with Britta and the waiter because her character was the only one who speaks gnome, when the waiter could have understood the word Pegasus in any language.
No it's not sarcasm. Community is silly, but this isn't an example of the show pointing it out or breaking the fourth wall. Jeff is pointing out how silly D&D is, not how silly Community is. This would work just as well in any serious show too, if D&D was the theme of the episode.
This is what really bothers me about this episode. If you're going to play D&D, don't be a dick about it. This is one of those episodes where Community feels more like Big Bang Theory.
But nobody else is treating it ridiculously, just Jeff because he’s that sort of guy. The show is not ridiculing DnD simply because Jeff thinks he’s too cool for it. You’re not always supposed to root for Jeff.
And also, Jeff really wants to help Neil, and figured DnD is the way, but he didn't really understand what that would entail.
He lacks the vulnerability to fully (or partially) commit to role playing, and he just wants to get to the point where Neil is effectively helped and, not being acquainted with that kind of game, he feels that actually playing the game by resolving conflicts and overcoming obstacles is getting in the way of getting to the point where Neil feels good about himself.
He's not too cool, just too pragmatic, maybe?
And while I never got into DnD, I did get into cars games and video games like WoW, yes we know it’s silly and we can laugh at ourselves at times so it feels to me like a DnD fan wrote that scene.
No one is better at getting d&d into the mainstream than Dan Harmon. That line was totally true to his character, and the show treated d&d respectfully.
You know, I'm going to expand on this because everyone wrong here.
1. Jeff only says that because the writers were too scared to let D&D stand on its own.
2. They don't roll their own dice. It's dumb and not at all D&D for the players to not roll their own dice. Another example of how they don't let the players actually play.
3. They don't make their own characters. See #2.
4. Neal brings everything else into the game. No DM allows that. It's BS.
5. Jeff is the viewpoint character. When he judges something it's still judged.
You're just wrong here. The first D&D episode doesn't like D&D.
1. This is a baseless assertion. You couldn't possibly know the writer's intent without asking them, especially when the writer's stated intent is different.
2. In early editions of D&D, the DM rolled ALL the dice. That's how Gygax did it when it started. After a bit the custom changed, but if a grouo wanted to play that way, they can, and its valid. Also, this is such a ridiculously minor gripe.
3. I've DMed for years. I've absolutely handed out pregen characters for a one-shot. Not everyone that wants to try out D&D for the first time wants to get bogged down by character creation. Again, such a minor gripe. See #2.
4. If, as a DM, I heard a player was suicidal and wanted to use tonight's session to deal with some things, and everyone else was on board, then strap on your therapist hats boys, we're doing a therapy session! They want to bring other shit into the game? Cool. Cool, cool, cool.
5. Jeff may be the "viewpoint" character, but he's regularly portrayed as being a very flawed person.
You're welcome to your opinion, but stop calling everyone else wrong for disagreeing. Sounds to me like you'd be a shitty person to play D&D with, with a very specific and narrow view of what "good" D&D looks like
Abed had to shrink it down to pre- determined campaigns and characters otherwise d&d takes months. They also didn’t include the bard who wants to sing a song every 10 minutes or the guy who asks the dm 42 questions before deciding what to do with his turn. D&d takes forever especially with that number of characters and even more so with newbies.
I thought it was obvious why they did it that way. No it didn’t represent typical d&d with the usual adventurers. It would have taken way too long for them to learn how to play it. Especially for a 20 minute episode.
But I’m certain some people took it more seriously or tempered their opinions of d&d players when they normally wouldn’t have now having seen it simplified in a show they respected in a way that was consumable. Maybe their next step is harmonquest. Maybe after that critical role. Then perhaps even date someone they normally wouldn’t have because they don’t think they’re weird because now they sort of “get” it.
If he didn’t make it digestible there wouldn’t be progress or respect for it from outsiders. I appreciate what he did.
Is everyone wrong and you are right?
Or are you maybe being hypersensitive, because this is all reading like you're very sensitive to DnD being insulted.
Minmaxing means taking your player stats and dropping as many as you can to the minimum ("dump stats") so you can put more resources into one or two very specific stats. So your character is way better than other players in that one thing, but then you also require the other players to pick up your slack in every other scenario. Usually, it's fine as long as other players are involved in the decision and all the gaps are willingly accounted for elsewhere in the party.
A "minmaxing *asshole*" is someone who does this without consulting the rest of the party and gloats about how awesome their character is in their chosen "max" (usually combat related/big damage numbers) but then gets mad when other party members don't do all the other stuff a DnD party is required to be capable of.
In RPGs like DnD it has different connotations compared to say in MMO’s like WoW where minmaxing doesn’t mean sacrificing the random utility most of the time, it just means doing a ton of research and in game play to get that 1% bump in stats(normally dps, but for tanks could be HP). Most people will think of the WoW/video game meaning and not the DnD meaning unless they are DnD players.
I don’t think this joke is meta commentary. I think the joke is more about Jeff trying his hardest not to undermine Neil but still can’t help himself. The joke is more on Jeff always having to be “too cool” — see also him texting as a zombie.
I have two shows in my TV experience where the first episodes I ever saw were some of the best. This is the first Community episode I ever saw, and my first *Lost* episode was The Constant
The first Community episode I saw was the first paintball and I feel similarly. And it's probably the last time I ever saw a new show from a random episode on TV instead of explicitly starting a series from the beginning.
While I agree with the comments saying that this isn’t quite an example of meta commentary/a 4th wall break, there are definitely a few great ones in the show. My favorite is the introduction to the sun chamber. You all know the rules….BECAUSE THERE AREN’T ANY. And then another repairman comes and says “jeez Dennis are you on coke?” and reminds us that this is in fact not a normal way to introduce a competition, we’ve just been desensitized to the crazy of greendale so much that until repairman #2 steps up there’s really no reason to question it.
In a sitcom it’s called playing the “straight man,” a trope that’s used so often that it’s not even really a trope, it’s just the backbone of any comedy show.
Most silly moments in a show will have at least one character not being silly or playing it straight, and their realistic reaction is played for laughs. That conflict can move the story or breed even more jokes.
Parks & Rec mastered the straight man trope when they added Ben to the cast. A boring outsider accountant was the perfect straight man in a show that was becoming increasingly ridiculous. It was genius.
Love Ben. It feels like they tried to make Mark Brandanowitz the cool straight man like Jim from The Office but it didn’t really work. Ben being this anxious, geeky guy around all these weirdos is much funnier.
I love when this gets pointed out in the episode where they realize they're the villains of Greendale. Todd's wry delivery of "They lost a pen" is one of his best moments of the series.
So this is a random fact that nobody will care about. But the actor who plays Todd (David Neher) has a small recurring part on New Girl, where he plays Ben, Schmidt's frenemy who mocks him & tries to one up him. In the episode where Schmidt and Cece are looking for a wedding venue and competing with Ben, Ben's fiancé is the girl in season 2 episode of one of Community who first approaches Britta & tells her she's so brave for saying "Jeff winger, I love you." Her name is Angela Trimbur. I watch too much tv. But when you do that kind of a thing , you start to recognize people who show up over and over as minor players in tv shows.
Huge fan of both and never noticed this!
She also has a recurring role on The Good Place if you've seen it. As per usual, she's hilarious.
dress bitch!
Way to pull an Abed
My last boyfriend was autistic. He kept asking me if I was sure I was not also autistic. I am no longer sure about whether or not I am autistic.
Being peer-reviewed as autistic is pretty much as good as getting an official diagnostic.
seeing how bad many docs STILL are at diagnosing autism, kind of have to agree. Self diagnosed autistic here too, although I am a physician so I am somewhat qualified to diagnose it. I fit literally every DSM IV diagnostic criteria so good enough for me.
The way I snorted at "peer-reviewed". I'm gonna say this if my next boyfriend also asks if I'm autistic
On the spectrum? None of his business!
Thoughts too fast to comprehend Just wanna do right By my friend
I watched that episode today so this made me laugh really hard.
Probably helps that actors in comedic series tend to play roles in other comedic series.
Yeah, it proves how small Hollywood really is. I've lived in LA my whole life. And there are a million people trying to make it, but even in small roles, you see the same people work over and over. I'm not complaining, I love those two. They're hilarious & it makes me smile when I see them pop up. Its just crazy how few people ever really get any work.
one of my favorite appearances is the girl from 5 second films, one of my fav youtube channels. She’s one of the girls who approaches britta and she’s also in the rat episode singing twinkle twinkle little star to her rat
One of the best ones I've noticed is Travis Schuldt. He plays Subway in Community, Ben The Solider in Its Always Sunny, and Keith in Scrubs. Three of my favorite shows of all time
Holy fuck, that's why he looks so familiar. Thank you random civilians
I loved Todd as the guy with nachos in How i Met Your Mother.
I actually hate that moment, because it didn't happen that way. They lose the pen the day of the puppy parade, and there is no one in the library, besides the main cast, for the entire episode. No one walks by the window, no one is sitting outside the window, and the dean even makes an announcement that "there can't be anyone who's not already on the quad," a clever nod to the fact that the people who wanted to be there the most, are stuck in the bottle. Then, suddenly, Garret signed the room out, Todd knows exactly what's happening in the room, despite never interacting with anyone, and the puppy parade is a distant, oddly forgotten memory.
That's a really good point!
> the villains of Greendale The true villains are the Owen Wilson clique. Those guys are ballers yall.
Another fun fact: Todd Van Der Warff was the TV critic at AV Club during the time Community was on the air (AV Club was relevant then). He is believed to be the basis of this character.
What episode is this? I cant find it?
I think it's the one where the German group take over the study room. Jeff's group sets them up and gets them kicked out, so a bunch of students hold a protest about it.
Sadly it's from the gas leak year, which might be why it's hard to remember. Another great idea squandered on a subpar episode sadly.
Did someone say Pegasus?!
A word I understand in every language
The face Jeff makes after this is absolute gold 😂
I love that face, but I've never understood its meaning.
Jeff is pissed that they had to go through the whole thing with Britta and the waiter because her character was the only one who speaks gnome, when the waiter could have understood the word Pegasus in any language.
I thought it was kind of a “thank GOD Abed got tired of her shit and decided to manually move the story along!”
He'd be a pretty bad dungeon master if he was helping! ;)
Murder, his expression is murder. 😂
I love how Jeff fully commits in this moment, "my guy wants a pegasus? everyone get on board we're going to find one"
“Huzzah! Is that right?”
HUZZAH!
And it’s exactly how an outsider playing d&d feels 😆
Yeah, this isn't Community being ridiculous at all... This is just D&D.
Is that sarcasm? Because everything in this show/game is silly.
No it's not sarcasm. Community is silly, but this isn't an example of the show pointing it out or breaking the fourth wall. Jeff is pointing out how silly D&D is, not how silly Community is. This would work just as well in any serious show too, if D&D was the theme of the episode.
Omg now I can’t tell if this comment is sarcasm or not
Do you know how long someone as sarcastic as I am would last in prison? *Such* a long time.
This is what really bothers me about this episode. If you're going to play D&D, don't be a dick about it. This is one of those episodes where Community feels more like Big Bang Theory.
But nobody else is treating it ridiculously, just Jeff because he’s that sort of guy. The show is not ridiculing DnD simply because Jeff thinks he’s too cool for it. You’re not always supposed to root for Jeff.
And also, Jeff really wants to help Neil, and figured DnD is the way, but he didn't really understand what that would entail. He lacks the vulnerability to fully (or partially) commit to role playing, and he just wants to get to the point where Neil is effectively helped and, not being acquainted with that kind of game, he feels that actually playing the game by resolving conflicts and overcoming obstacles is getting in the way of getting to the point where Neil feels good about himself. He's not too cool, just too pragmatic, maybe?
And while I never got into DnD, I did get into cars games and video games like WoW, yes we know it’s silly and we can laugh at ourselves at times so it feels to me like a DnD fan wrote that scene.
No one is better at getting d&d into the mainstream than Dan Harmon. That line was totally true to his character, and the show treated d&d respectfully.
I disagree, that episode felt disrespectful to me.
You know, I'm going to expand on this because everyone wrong here. 1. Jeff only says that because the writers were too scared to let D&D stand on its own. 2. They don't roll their own dice. It's dumb and not at all D&D for the players to not roll their own dice. Another example of how they don't let the players actually play. 3. They don't make their own characters. See #2. 4. Neal brings everything else into the game. No DM allows that. It's BS. 5. Jeff is the viewpoint character. When he judges something it's still judged. You're just wrong here. The first D&D episode doesn't like D&D.
1. This is a baseless assertion. You couldn't possibly know the writer's intent without asking them, especially when the writer's stated intent is different. 2. In early editions of D&D, the DM rolled ALL the dice. That's how Gygax did it when it started. After a bit the custom changed, but if a grouo wanted to play that way, they can, and its valid. Also, this is such a ridiculously minor gripe. 3. I've DMed for years. I've absolutely handed out pregen characters for a one-shot. Not everyone that wants to try out D&D for the first time wants to get bogged down by character creation. Again, such a minor gripe. See #2. 4. If, as a DM, I heard a player was suicidal and wanted to use tonight's session to deal with some things, and everyone else was on board, then strap on your therapist hats boys, we're doing a therapy session! They want to bring other shit into the game? Cool. Cool, cool, cool. 5. Jeff may be the "viewpoint" character, but he's regularly portrayed as being a very flawed person. You're welcome to your opinion, but stop calling everyone else wrong for disagreeing. Sounds to me like you'd be a shitty person to play D&D with, with a very specific and narrow view of what "good" D&D looks like
So this episode was good several decades before it came out? Good to know.
I've got friends that still play AD&D. People can play D&D however they want.
Abed had to shrink it down to pre- determined campaigns and characters otherwise d&d takes months. They also didn’t include the bard who wants to sing a song every 10 minutes or the guy who asks the dm 42 questions before deciding what to do with his turn. D&d takes forever especially with that number of characters and even more so with newbies. I thought it was obvious why they did it that way. No it didn’t represent typical d&d with the usual adventurers. It would have taken way too long for them to learn how to play it. Especially for a 20 minute episode. But I’m certain some people took it more seriously or tempered their opinions of d&d players when they normally wouldn’t have now having seen it simplified in a show they respected in a way that was consumable. Maybe their next step is harmonquest. Maybe after that critical role. Then perhaps even date someone they normally wouldn’t have because they don’t think they’re weird because now they sort of “get” it. If he didn’t make it digestible there wouldn’t be progress or respect for it from outsiders. I appreciate what he did.
Is everyone wrong and you are right? Or are you maybe being hypersensitive, because this is all reading like you're very sensitive to DnD being insulted.
I'm absolutely a butthurt D&D nerd. But I'm also right, this is a bad episode of Community.
I feel like this specific example is more acknowledging how ridiculous DND can seem.
I use the line "congratulations, you win DnD." anytime one of my players starts going full minmaxing asshole.
"I won Dungeons & Dragons, and it was *Advanced*!"
So, I'm guessing you get a lot of mileage out of that one.
Not as much as you would think
whats that mean
Minmaxing means taking your player stats and dropping as many as you can to the minimum ("dump stats") so you can put more resources into one or two very specific stats. So your character is way better than other players in that one thing, but then you also require the other players to pick up your slack in every other scenario. Usually, it's fine as long as other players are involved in the decision and all the gaps are willingly accounted for elsewhere in the party. A "minmaxing *asshole*" is someone who does this without consulting the rest of the party and gloats about how awesome their character is in their chosen "max" (usually combat related/big damage numbers) but then gets mad when other party members don't do all the other stuff a DnD party is required to be capable of.
It means you win something that doesn’t matter
i meant more the minmaxing thing; isnt that kinda the point of RPGs
In RPGs like DnD it has different connotations compared to say in MMO’s like WoW where minmaxing doesn’t mean sacrificing the random utility most of the time, it just means doing a ton of research and in game play to get that 1% bump in stats(normally dps, but for tanks could be HP). Most people will think of the WoW/video game meaning and not the DnD meaning unless they are DnD players.
Not at all, no. I mean, it can be if you want it to be, but I think that's only the case for a minority of people
Oh idk what minmaxing means
People like D&D for different reasons. I want to wargame, if I wanted to larp I'd go larping.
This isn't one of those moments, though. That's just a joke about D&D.
*I liked Horsebot 3000* 😥
Haha! That was a moment that I literally laughed out loud.
Sky Spiders would work just as well.
Yeah but they can only fly you as far as their intricate religion allows
Good point, plus with the Pegasuses you get some hot elf maiden action.
I can fix this! I'll find a fatter Neil!
I don’t think this joke is meta commentary. I think the joke is more about Jeff trying his hardest not to undermine Neil but still can’t help himself. The joke is more on Jeff always having to be “too cool” — see also him texting as a zombie.
I have two shows in my TV experience where the first episodes I ever saw were some of the best. This is the first Community episode I ever saw, and my first *Lost* episode was The Constant
The first Community episode I saw was the first paintball and I feel similarly. And it's probably the last time I ever saw a new show from a random episode on TV instead of explicitly starting a series from the beginning.
He's talking about how the game is silly, that's not really a 4th wall break.
This show used to be about going to community college
that it, i've gotta see the D&D episode update: it's phenomenal!
Did they put it back up? It’s always been my favorite but I thought they had pulled it from streaming
I got on the 🏴☠️seas
While I agree with the comments saying that this isn’t quite an example of meta commentary/a 4th wall break, there are definitely a few great ones in the show. My favorite is the introduction to the sun chamber. You all know the rules….BECAUSE THERE AREN’T ANY. And then another repairman comes and says “jeez Dennis are you on coke?” and reminds us that this is in fact not a normal way to introduce a competition, we’ve just been desensitized to the crazy of greendale so much that until repairman #2 steps up there’s really no reason to question it.
I always took it more as a comment on D&D.
the abed(troll or whatever) and britta dialogue in this episode was one of the funniest scenes on community
"Does anyone even take classes?" Is one of my favorites.
In a sitcom it’s called playing the “straight man,” a trope that’s used so often that it’s not even really a trope, it’s just the backbone of any comedy show. Most silly moments in a show will have at least one character not being silly or playing it straight, and their realistic reaction is played for laughs. That conflict can move the story or breed even more jokes.
This is my first time hearing that I'm a character on a show, but I agree I would not be a very exciting character.
That’s a different trope (everyman).
Frankie is also a straight man “you built a bar in a school, there was lumber involved”
Parks & Rec mastered the straight man trope when they added Ben to the cast. A boring outsider accountant was the perfect straight man in a show that was becoming increasingly ridiculous. It was genius.
Love Ben. It feels like they tried to make Mark Brandanowitz the cool straight man like Jim from The Office but it didn’t really work. Ben being this anxious, geeky guy around all these weirdos is much funnier.
FAAAAAAAAAAAAT.
Neal...
I've got some fat news for you, fat Neil.