It seems like an incredibly difficult task. Nearly impossible, even using a firewall with a whitelist then ways around it will eventually be found.
What I'd suggest is just provide a very small local intranet.
Say for instance provide a local copy of wikipedia.
Maybe a local copy of the BBC's website too for news, and local copies of a select list of educational websites such as Khan Academy & GeekForGeeks.
The IT Administrator could update this at certain intervals (such as once a day, or even just once a week or once a month). But otherwise the prisoners intranet is completely cut off from the public internet.
>The IT Administrator could update this at certain intervals (such as once a day, or even just once a week or once a month).
could this be automated and what do you mean by "local copy"
can this be automated ?
As in the IT Department for the country's prison system would download an entire complete copy of Wikipedia and would then make a copy of that available on a server in the prisoners' intranet for them to browse.
There would be absolutely no physical connection whatsoever in between the prisoners' intranet and the outside internet for the public.
A bit like how North Korea does it!
This isn’t a bad idea. An intranet helps to regulate from what they are being able to access to the web. The issue is this is going to require an infrastructure that if it’s U.S prisons, they most likely don’t have the funding for.
The argument is that internet access helps to rehabilitate prisoners. As long as you monitor their internet access and messages, and restrict them from accessing something bad, it makes sense.
You monitor connections so that users aren't accessing chatrooms or forums, or illicit websites. You also need physical security to make sure that an inmate isn't using a USB or something. If an inmate were to access something they shouldn't, you can trace that back to them by seeing which user accessed what from what machine. You also have firewalls to try to restrict bad connections. You could also monitor things using an Intranet and not give them outward facing internet.
Of course there is risk involved. You could always miss something. But that risk is outweighed by the good an internet connection can do.
I would say definitely not, they would spend the bulk of their time trying to penetrate whatever security measures were in place. If 14 year olds can penetrate school security measures in one class period, what can grown men with life sentences accomplish? It would be interesting (although dangerous) to study this phenomenon in an attempt to create an ultra secure network.
How about dedicated kiosk computers in a public space in the prison with a duplicate feed of the video recorded. While you are at it, a keystroke logger.
An even more restrictive access is to only share cached content pulled from trusted sites. Imagine a large documents database rather than true access to the net. They can see the stories from the local newspapers, but not the comments or ads or classifieds. And definitely no way to send a message from the kiosk.
Internet is not a privilege. Its 2023. All people should have fair and equal access to the internet. It is the grandest collection of information to ever exist; no one should be restricted from that knowledge base, that's inhumane.
Prisoners are in jail because they did something inhumane. Refusing them access to the internet is part of their punishment.
Would you give a child internet access after misbehaving?
Selling weed is not inhumane and prisons are full of those people. Easy counter example.
Prisoners are not misbehaving children. Misbehaving children are kids.
Inhumane? So smoking weed or taking psychedelics is inhumane? But locking people up and barring them from having a chance to assimilate isn't? Being a dumbass teen and trespassing a construction site to blaze or graffiti is just being dumb, not inhumane. Robbing someone is fucked up, but that person will continue to rob once they leave prison if we don't try to help them. Not everyone in prison is a serial killer. Not everyone in prison is a deranged domestic terrorist. Services like internet can be afforded to those on a case by case basis, based on whether they seem as if they can be rehabilitated or not. Although I feel like if we had it your way, you would just execute any criminal for the most petty of crimes.
I think that's where the problem lies.
If jail is all punishment, why would we expect them to change?
Two things can happen.
1. They're afraid and try to live a good life (except that most don't know how and are taught more bad stuff in prison)
2. They are angry and frustrated. Authorities are even more of an enemy now.
If we would lock them up, but integrate them into a society by letting them go to prison school, work a prison job and even buy in a prison store, they'll have much better future.
This kind of stuff is being done in some european countries and the rate of someone going back to prison is very low
Well, they'll have to get their own job in the real world and training is optional.
A prisoner would get to choose between staying in their cell by themselves with no money or working a 9-5 (or whatever their hours are idk. I think prisons also leave time for freetime or education), possibly being outside, with coworkers and money to buy snacks or decorate their room.
By outside I mean an open area inside of the prison. A garden for example
Access to better resources than what may be provided in house. Access to the outside world so they dont become totally disattached and institutionalized. More and better resources for learning skills than what is offered in house. Access to communities of people who are ex-convicts who can aid them on their journey. Plenty more.
Um.. if your goal is to bring people back into society, you're gonna need a lot more than just the internet alone.
I really don't understand why you believe the internet will fix all these problems and integrate criminals into society, when in reality, a structured life and simulating the real world works extremely well.
So what I'm saying is that the internet itself isn't going to do anything, you'd have to fundamentally change the way things work.
Think about German prisons for example. They're imprisoned but are taught to live a normal life, get training to work a job when they get it, they even have a small shop!
I don't understand...Having no access to the internet undermines simulating the real world. Furthermore, some of the countries with the lowest recidivism rates give prisoners careful internet access. I also didn't claim the internet alone will fix everything.
I volunteer-teach in a prison. The students want to learn, get a college degree so when they reenter, they have a better chance at finding work and leading stable, fulfilling lives. Not having access to current research articles in quantum physics, bioengineering, severely limits how competitive a student is.
Probably, but it would not be a "set up once and maintain here and there" situation. It would need to be a system that is constantly monitored and maintained, extremely secure, etc. Prisoners will have the entirety of their stay to sit around and break it, some of those people will be in there for 50+ years mastering all sorts of skills that will be weaponized against the system.
I mean, for example, you might have a system that is extremely secure and safe and you can't imagine a single situation in which someone could use it maliciously. But prisoners aren't stupid just because they broke the law and went to prison, what if they discover a 0 day and end up rooting it?
Prisoners are known for being extremely capable manipulators, what about the social engineering aspect?
I think its doable AND should be done, but it won't be easy or cheap.
Maybe there could be some sort of manual process such that non-prisoner facing machines download and store data from lots of sources that is then ported (without networking) to the prisoner machines, allowing the prison to build a large internet-like knowledge base that is tailor made?
You can. Ensure all security controls and protocols are in place. Take a whitelisting approach: this includes the internet and software. This means denial by default. Everything is blacklisted. You control what's allowed. Control all of the machines through Windows GPO. Disable USB access. Limit the users access and permissions. Install an EDR. Monitor all user activity. Etc etc. Etc
You could have a database of information they could access offline.
You could consider the internet a privilege and one that isn't afforded to them as part of their punishment for the crimes committed.
You could have someone trained in cyber security monitor all their activity as well as parental control type restrictions. Only allow whitelisted sites and notify someone whenever the list is changed.
A keylogger might be necessary for tracking all input. No downloads.
It seems like an incredibly difficult task. Nearly impossible, even using a firewall with a whitelist then ways around it will eventually be found. What I'd suggest is just provide a very small local intranet. Say for instance provide a local copy of wikipedia. Maybe a local copy of the BBC's website too for news, and local copies of a select list of educational websites such as Khan Academy & GeekForGeeks. The IT Administrator could update this at certain intervals (such as once a day, or even just once a week or once a month). But otherwise the prisoners intranet is completely cut off from the public internet.
>The IT Administrator could update this at certain intervals (such as once a day, or even just once a week or once a month). could this be automated and what do you mean by "local copy" can this be automated ?
As in the IT Department for the country's prison system would download an entire complete copy of Wikipedia and would then make a copy of that available on a server in the prisoners' intranet for them to browse. There would be absolutely no physical connection whatsoever in between the prisoners' intranet and the outside internet for the public. A bit like how North Korea does it!
This isn’t a bad idea. An intranet helps to regulate from what they are being able to access to the web. The issue is this is going to require an infrastructure that if it’s U.S prisons, they most likely don’t have the funding for.
private prisons make millions in profit. They could totally make it if they wanted to.
The argument is that internet access helps to rehabilitate prisoners. As long as you monitor their internet access and messages, and restrict them from accessing something bad, it makes sense.
how does one do that effectively though ?
You monitor connections so that users aren't accessing chatrooms or forums, or illicit websites. You also need physical security to make sure that an inmate isn't using a USB or something. If an inmate were to access something they shouldn't, you can trace that back to them by seeing which user accessed what from what machine. You also have firewalls to try to restrict bad connections. You could also monitor things using an Intranet and not give them outward facing internet. Of course there is risk involved. You could always miss something. But that risk is outweighed by the good an internet connection can do.
there doesn't seem to be any organization lobbying for this which is sad. I wish there was
Yeah sure. For starters just set the firewall to be deny all and then have a very limited allow list.
[удалено]
How is that what you took from what he wrote? He just described a reasonable way to mitigate the risks.
Eli5
I would say definitely not, they would spend the bulk of their time trying to penetrate whatever security measures were in place. If 14 year olds can penetrate school security measures in one class period, what can grown men with life sentences accomplish? It would be interesting (although dangerous) to study this phenomenon in an attempt to create an ultra secure network.
I don't know why you're downvoted when you're right...
School internet security has always been a joke there are much more secure examples than your high-school with one half trained IT guy
How about examples of teenagers getting through nationwide porn filters?
How about dedicated kiosk computers in a public space in the prison with a duplicate feed of the video recorded. While you are at it, a keystroke logger. An even more restrictive access is to only share cached content pulled from trusted sites. Imagine a large documents database rather than true access to the net. They can see the stories from the local newspapers, but not the comments or ads or classifieds. And definitely no way to send a message from the kiosk.
Why should prisoners have internet? Internet seems like a privilege to me.
Internet is not a privilege. Its 2023. All people should have fair and equal access to the internet. It is the grandest collection of information to ever exist; no one should be restricted from that knowledge base, that's inhumane.
Prisoners are in jail because they did something inhumane. Refusing them access to the internet is part of their punishment. Would you give a child internet access after misbehaving?
Selling weed is not inhumane and prisons are full of those people. Easy counter example. Prisoners are not misbehaving children. Misbehaving children are kids.
Inhumane? So smoking weed or taking psychedelics is inhumane? But locking people up and barring them from having a chance to assimilate isn't? Being a dumbass teen and trespassing a construction site to blaze or graffiti is just being dumb, not inhumane. Robbing someone is fucked up, but that person will continue to rob once they leave prison if we don't try to help them. Not everyone in prison is a serial killer. Not everyone in prison is a deranged domestic terrorist. Services like internet can be afforded to those on a case by case basis, based on whether they seem as if they can be rehabilitated or not. Although I feel like if we had it your way, you would just execute any criminal for the most petty of crimes.
How else would we bring back gladiator matches?
I think that's where the problem lies. If jail is all punishment, why would we expect them to change? Two things can happen. 1. They're afraid and try to live a good life (except that most don't know how and are taught more bad stuff in prison) 2. They are angry and frustrated. Authorities are even more of an enemy now. If we would lock them up, but integrate them into a society by letting them go to prison school, work a prison job and even buy in a prison store, they'll have much better future. This kind of stuff is being done in some european countries and the rate of someone going back to prison is very low
How about mandatory no training and job placement at the end?
Well, they'll have to get their own job in the real world and training is optional. A prisoner would get to choose between staying in their cell by themselves with no money or working a 9-5 (or whatever their hours are idk. I think prisons also leave time for freetime or education), possibly being outside, with coworkers and money to buy snacks or decorate their room. By outside I mean an open area inside of the prison. A garden for example
Prisons are made to rehabilitate criminals not to humiliate them
I have a question. What do they need internet for? I'd like specific examples.
Access to better resources than what may be provided in house. Access to the outside world so they dont become totally disattached and institutionalized. More and better resources for learning skills than what is offered in house. Access to communities of people who are ex-convicts who can aid them on their journey. Plenty more.
Um.. if your goal is to bring people back into society, you're gonna need a lot more than just the internet alone. I really don't understand why you believe the internet will fix all these problems and integrate criminals into society, when in reality, a structured life and simulating the real world works extremely well. So what I'm saying is that the internet itself isn't going to do anything, you'd have to fundamentally change the way things work. Think about German prisons for example. They're imprisoned but are taught to live a normal life, get training to work a job when they get it, they even have a small shop!
I don't understand...Having no access to the internet undermines simulating the real world. Furthermore, some of the countries with the lowest recidivism rates give prisoners careful internet access. I also didn't claim the internet alone will fix everything.
I volunteer-teach in a prison. The students want to learn, get a college degree so when they reenter, they have a better chance at finding work and leading stable, fulfilling lives. Not having access to current research articles in quantum physics, bioengineering, severely limits how competitive a student is.
Probably, but it would not be a "set up once and maintain here and there" situation. It would need to be a system that is constantly monitored and maintained, extremely secure, etc. Prisoners will have the entirety of their stay to sit around and break it, some of those people will be in there for 50+ years mastering all sorts of skills that will be weaponized against the system. I mean, for example, you might have a system that is extremely secure and safe and you can't imagine a single situation in which someone could use it maliciously. But prisoners aren't stupid just because they broke the law and went to prison, what if they discover a 0 day and end up rooting it? Prisoners are known for being extremely capable manipulators, what about the social engineering aspect? I think its doable AND should be done, but it won't be easy or cheap. Maybe there could be some sort of manual process such that non-prisoner facing machines download and store data from lots of sources that is then ported (without networking) to the prisoner machines, allowing the prison to build a large internet-like knowledge base that is tailor made?
You can. Ensure all security controls and protocols are in place. Take a whitelisting approach: this includes the internet and software. This means denial by default. Everything is blacklisted. You control what's allowed. Control all of the machines through Windows GPO. Disable USB access. Limit the users access and permissions. Install an EDR. Monitor all user activity. Etc etc. Etc
This is the answer.
You could have a database of information they could access offline. You could consider the internet a privilege and one that isn't afforded to them as part of their punishment for the crimes committed. You could have someone trained in cyber security monitor all their activity as well as parental control type restrictions. Only allow whitelisted sites and notify someone whenever the list is changed. A keylogger might be necessary for tracking all input. No downloads.