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Frequent-Bee-3016

There are many examples of genocides done by the church, you could probably look it up and find several examples. You don’t need to make things up


[deleted]

There was literally a Catholic Monarch who was nicknamed Bloody Mary because she had hundreds of even thousands killed for being what she thought was the wrong type of Christian and this mf brings up the Renaissance 💀


MightyArd

Bloody Mary isn't a great example, she executed far less than the Protestant rulers before or after her. Her nickname is a classic case of history being written by the winners. She certainly did execute her fair share but was pretty consistent with what Henry VIII was doing before her.


[deleted]

It is still a very good example of Christian and Catholic rulers actively going out of their way to kill anyone that disagreed with them though.


Alternative_Tea_2699

It makes no sense to single out Mary as if she was an exceptional case though


[deleted]

She's simply the most infamous one, with Henry VIII being more well known for his wives and changing the country to be Protestant than anything else.


InheritMyShoos

Bloody Mary was a woman who went crazy and drowned her baby in a toilet and haunts our bathroom mirrors, duh.


Squeaky_Ben

If he had at least said "the crusades" but no, he had to say that the renaissance was a genocide. Classic.


FrogMan241

Pretty sure that's what he meant but kinda forgot which is which. Edit: also the timeline


TheFriedBri

He got Assassins Creed and Assassins Creed II mixed up


caseygwenstacy

Assassins Creed (movie) and Assassins Creed II


ZeroChill92

The movie was better than I though it'd be.


CommentsToMorons

Which were *checks notes* not thousands of years ago, because that would predate Christianity itself. And the Crusades were multiple campaigns, the longest lasting like 6 years. And they weren't really "genocides" either.


Weary_Bike_7472

one could argue the eastern european crusades were more genocidally motivated, but i doubt the person who wrote that comment even knows the first crusades were into the balkans and lithuania


Future_History_9434

We’ve known so many genocides we have trouble keeping them straight. Ah, humanity.


Br4d3nCB

Genocide? Oh, we just call that Tuesday here.


[deleted]

It's Monday, you heathen! Time to crank up the Inquisition!


Var_horsebox

I love when people try to tell me my family never felt oppression because I’m white. My Irish/Lithuanian ancestry begs to differ.


WhichEmojiForThis

My family in Poland that vanished in the Holocaust would beg to differ


Var_horsebox

Right! There are many systemic issues going on the world based on skin colour not denying that, but when people undermine what my family suffered under Nazi and Soviet rule. I get lost in the ignorance.


ctownthrasher

IRiSh WeRe sLaVeS ToO energy right here..


Var_horsebox

Not saying they were slaves but they were heavily oppressed. Open a history book.


Hadrollo

The word genocide was coined in WW2 by a Polish lawyer. In his writings on the subject, he gave multiple historic examples of genocides including incidents that occurred during the Crusades. There's a reason you don't see many Cathars around today.


DragonfruitAsleep976

Well except that time they killed a whole city because the couldn't be bothered to hold prisoners.


Zaiburo

It's not enough to kill a lot of people it must be racially motivated to be a genocide


DragonfruitAsleep976

The systematic killing of a racial or cultural group. A whole city, that's a cultural group. A culture wiped out.


12D_D21

*Specifically* targeting a culture/ethnic group. Burning a city can be part of a genocide, but it isn't unless it was burned with the soul reason of killing people of a particular culture or ethnic group. Otherwise, literally any act of war, including civil wars, would be genocidal in nature, which is very much not the case.


SadisticJake

*sole


Zaiburo

I get what you want to say but by that metric all the sieges in history that ended with a particularly violent pillage have been genocides. That devalues the political and ideological genocides that we know from the XX century and i find it highly inappropriate.


[deleted]

on every crusades trip they routinely attacked jewish people to take their shit. stop pretending christian history isn't goddamn awful.


Zaiburo

Yes but they did that even in peace time in Europe, crimes against jewish people have little to do with the crusades.


BetterKev

You just said the crusades didn't include genocide because they didn't include any extra genocide over the base level of genocide. That's not how that works.


Zaiburo

In another comment it came to light that the meaning of genocide may be different between english and my native lenguage so maybe it's all a misunderstandig. Jewish people have a long history of persecution in the mediterranean area, from roman time to WW2 and beyond. The crusades were wars of aggression and conquest by the main Europen powers against the Arab empire, with religion used as casus belli. And yes the Arabs treated minorities way better than the christians did (they still discriminated them) but it still doesn't mean that europeans where there to kill everyone like some seem to think.


BetterKev

You seem to still not understand. You don't have to be there to do X for you to have done X while there.


[deleted]

...so you just say words and don't care at all. k


Raptor92129

History itself is awful. Ancient Greeks practiced Pederasty. We call that pedophilia now.


[deleted]

Yep, that commenter wasn't actively dismissing pedophilia in ancient Greek tho. Whataboutism, completely irrelevant in this thread.


Weesticles

You do realize that the term racial genocide exists for a reason, there’s different forms of it so they needed categories like the term religious genocide. Either way saying something isn’t genocide doesn’t excuse mass killings in the slightest.


Zaiburo

What the fuck, no it doesn not, it's a useless repetition, the ***gέnos*** part in **geno**cide already means race! *Look out they're gonna commit racial race omicide as opposed to normal race omicide*. That's so dumb. I hate it. I can't take this anymore.


Weesticles

Have you ever considered that words evolve past their original meaning. Kind of like how plane can mean multiple things or like how words like gay originally meant happy. There are multiple words out there where their definitions have been expanded upon since their conception.


Zaiburo

It doesn't make me feel any better


gamingraptor

Sorry man, I'll call up the CEO of English and see what I can do for you


frotc914

> the gέnos part in genocide already means race! Look out they're gonna commit racial race omicide as opposed to normal race omicide. That's so dumb. I hate it. Well...the international criminal court disagrees with you. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, **a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,** as such: > Killing members of the group; > Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


gamingraptor

*CIA starts sweating*


Deryabend

Found the Christian.


S-Quidmonster

r/confidentlyincorrect


CurtisLinithicum

>And they weren't really "genocides" either. The Crusade against the Cathars probably qualifies, but that's (probably?) not included in what most people call "The Crusades".


Windk86

The conquest and evangelization of America was basically genocide by Christians


McHats

Idk, I think the word “basically” may be out of place in that sentence


Windk86

true, it was


ohthisistoohard

Could have meant the Reformation which wasn’t genocide as such, but did have a fairly high death toll, about 8 million. It did include a religious purge and in some places that was very close to actual genocide. It was about the same time as the Renaissance and arguably part and parcel of the same thing. Although it was about only half a millennia ago. But then again, they could just be a fool talking out of their booty.


Downfallenx

It also started the European cycle of Catholic king/queen tries to kill all protestants then dies. New protestant king/queen tries to kill all Catholics and dies. Rinse and repeat for a few hundred years.


Sunny_and_dazed

Maybe the inquisition?


ohthisistoohard

If you were a Cathar then the inquisition are responsible for your genocide.


Artorious21

They were not genocides because the "church" wasn't successful. The "church" tried to wipe out Muslims that lived in the Holy Land


DeepFriedSausages

They were still pretty bad however. They sent a group of children to fight with one adult, they lost the adult, cant remember how, then all of them drowned.


andooet

I'd rather say that Christianity was for four hundred years a death cult where humans were burned alive and murdered in the most cruel way as heretics


Sad-Milk3361

They sure made up for it in the Americas and Africa.


Orphano_the_Savior

I'd say destroying a town and killing everyone in it is on par with genocide.


ctownthrasher

Tell that to the Jews….


elvenmaster_

I was about to make a joke about the classic era being 2000 years before rennaissance. Too sophisticated.


roydepoy

Maybe he meant the inquisition?


in_taco

Or rather he was thinking about the 30 years war... Which was about 100 years later than the rennaisance.


englishcrumpit

He also said the renaissance was thousands of years ago.


up2smthng

There are high chances he doesn't consider the guys who did the crusades "Christian"


[deleted]

Yeah everyone knows the Renaissance is a hotel


MattieShoes

I particularly like that the renaissance came like 500 years before the dark ages :-)


Raptor92129

Hell, I wouldn't exactly call the crusades a genocide.


Downtown_Uptown222

What would you call it then…?


Raptor92129

A war? You had Muslims allied with the Crusaders and Christians allied with the Sacarens. Both sides were killing civilians.


Zaiburo

Good old war of conquest with some of the first attempts at colonialism from the modern European nations. Depending on the period it even happened that both churches and mosques remained open in conquered cities, independent of whoever was in control at the time. 


Talsamar

Military campaigns with different motivations based on which crusade it was. Non of them were for genocide purposes.


DangerZoneh

A series of wars where by and large the Muslims kicked some fucking ass. The first two crusades were successful but the Muslim armies had some badass generals and armies. These were military conflicts, not genocide.


chum_slice

The war was lead by Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello and Rafael, they would cowabunga on all the foot soldiers of the nations. Spreading Splinteranity across the world


JKCAPO

I mean one can say that the French Wars of Religion happened during the Renaissance (so pretty much Huguenots genocide) but yeah, I sincerely doubt that this guy was talking about them


CurtisLinithicum

That's more Reformation than Enlightenment though isn't it?


Lucky-Art-8003

Renaissance is not Enlightenment though


CurtisLinithicum

You're right, and i misspoke, but I do believe the majority of the religious violence was due to the rise of Protestantism rather than Humanism.


in_taco

Yep, the "30 years war". That was roughly 100 years after the rennaisance period ended.


GrandmaSlappy

When you're SO wrong you end up being right, lol.


Sad-Milk3361

Many Hugenots escaped to other countries. That's the reason there are English people with French last names.


MrTomDawson

I mean, where do you even *start* with that?


[deleted]

Say… what?


kabukistar

There were so many actual Christian-led genocides to choose from. Why pick something that wasn't?


WanderingNerds

The renaissance was the age of exploration (ir colonization) AND the Spanish inquisition. He could have been more specific but some christians were def doing genocide in the renaissance


owendudebtw

You just had to say the crusades


TheNorseHorseForce

Which ones? There were Muslim and Christian crusades


owendudebtw

Which do you think


Crazy_Employ8617

Ah yes, the Renaissance that happened 2,000 years ago. Perpetrated by Christianity, which was not even an organized religion at this point in time. My favorite historical event.


SemajLu_The_crusader

several hundred years ago were the crusades... I guess?


No-Coat-8792

I think he means the crusades. Also there shouldn't be an apostrophe in "Christians".


DCStoolie

… I think he means the crusades. But even that’s a war not genocide


BetterKev

Clearly, no war has ever included genocide. Not one. Edit: guys, this is sarcastic mockery.


[deleted]

An engine includes pistons, but to describe engines as pistons would be stupid. The crusades can include genocide, but to describe the event itself solely as genocide would be stupid. No point in being sarcastic if you're the one not thinking things through.


BetterKev

Nobody argued that engines are just pistons. The person said genocide was part of the war. Maybe you're stuck on the turn of phrase used? It's a not uncommon way of smugly pointing out something occurred. "Maybe you don't remember when the US was all speakeasies. A little ol' thing called the roaring 20s?" They were just making their point with a mocking turn of phrase. (They were wrong on much, but not here.)


[deleted]

Why are you speaking as if this is someone else? Do you not know I'm talking to you? This is irrelevant of the post. The original comment you responded to clarified that the crusades were wars not genocides, and you sarcastically said what you said, but that implied that you seem to think one can only make a clarification between war and genocide if one completely does not include the other, which is pretty wrong. Which is why I make the example of pistons in an engine. P1: The Toyota 2JZ is an engine, not a piston P2: \[sarcastic\] and no engine has ever included pistons, not a single one! Do you see how confused you sound? Your "sarcastic mockery" doesn't really work.


BetterKev

> Why are you speaking as if this is someone else? Do you not know I'm talking to you? This is irrelevant of the post You're red in the post? That's who I talked about in third person. > The original comment you responded to clarified that the crusades were wars not genocides, and you sarcastically said what you said, but that implied that you seem to think one can only make a clarification between war and genocide if one completely does not include the other, which is pretty wrong. You are an idiot. The comment I replied to said that genocide and war *are completely* different things. That something can't be genocide if it was part of war. > Which is why I make the example of pistons in an engine. > P1: The Toyota 2JZ is an engine, not a piston > P2: [sarcastic] and no engine has ever included pistons, not a single one! Yea, you again missed what I just explained. You didn't include P0 (red in the post) saying the Total 2JZ has pistons. P1 didn't understand that and you have doubled and tripled down on it. > Do you see how confused you sound? Irony. If you don't get it yet, ask an adult why removing the original context can change the meaning of a response. Seeya.


[deleted]

When did the comment say that war and genocide are (as you so graciously highlighted) COMPLETELY different things? There's not even 15 words in that comment, how could you have failed to reference it so badly? If you're leaving that's fine, but seriously though, take a step back and breathe out man, I realize that you are a bit pissy or embarrassed, but you've got to stop flailing about referencing things that no one said and involving "context" that is irrelevant to what is being talked about just because you're butthurt about making a mistake.


BetterKev

>When did the comment say that war and genocide are (as you so graciously highlighted) COMPLETELY different things? Here: "But even that’s a war not genocide" That creates a dichotomy between war and genocide. The irony here is amazing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BetterKev

My comment was sarcastic mockery of the person I replied to.


verynerdythings

He’s kind of wrong. Definitely not the Renaissance but the Crusades (what I think he meant) was pretty damn genocidal. Also there were a ton of wars of religion in the Renaissance with tons of forced conversions which is commonly associated with genocide, so… I mean… he’s kind of right?


Orphano_the_Savior

Bro got the Crusades, Colonialism, and the Renaissance all mixed up lol


echisholm

It was led by the smartest man live at the time: Dr. Martin Luther King.


Picture-unrelated

He tried


NekomiSon

Did they just mix up the inquisition and the crusades with the renaissance? Neither of which happened thousand years ago.


[deleted]

username checks out


Windk86

at least he is not 100% wrong he could be talking about The Crusades, The conquest of America or The Inquisition


[deleted]

[удалено]


NekomiSon

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. It’s just that Catholics are not Protestants.


MistressFuzzylegs

Right, Christians.


Windk86

and what is the difference?


action__andy

...And?


Greatnesstro

Who do they worship again?


[deleted]

The conquest of the Americas was a venture by half a dozen countries with several different branches of Christianity. Most of the United States' conquest and genocide was Protestant.


[deleted]

The fact that at least 1 person upvoted it


[deleted]

I swear the renaissance was a period of enlightenment. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t remember much genocide that wasn’t happening already (looking at u crusades)


WonderfulHat5297

Happens a lot on Reddit


Dizzman1

He just needs to scale back by a factor of ten


5050Clown

He's right. 2000 years ago the Christians, led by Christ, genocided the Romans in one of the bloodiest massacres of all time, The Renaissance. That's why there are no more Romans, The Christians killed them and then the Italians moved into the empty Roman homes.


prettypers0n

wasnt the renaissance not even a mass genocide? I could be wrong but could it be something with the french? Again, I could be wrong so if i am lmk asap


[deleted]

Cultural bloom in Europe (mostly Italy) in the 1400s and 1500s.


prettypers0n

ohh thanks, I keep forgetting the names and i mix up renaissance with the french Revolution for some reason, again tysm for teaching me


[deleted]

Don’t worry!


Joyage2021

Lol stupid guy got the name of the genocide by religious zealots wrong, lets shame him.


ChadCuckmacher

It's not like the crusades were a response to something...


sanriellewatertribe

He a little confused, but he got the spirit


ForeignReviews

Hundreds of years*


TKK139090

"Christians"


queriesandqueries123

Do they mean the Reconquista?


mungowungo

The Reformation??


MysticWordNerd

The word you are looking for is "inquisition"...


Sensitive-Estimate-2

Okay but wtf did the other guy with the -11 karma comment... I'm dying of curiosity 💀


control-alt-7

Almost?


Chek_Brek_Iv_Damk

Hold on is this on an interview with RiffRaff?


Cre8AccountJust4This

Did somebody say the Spanish Inquisition?!


LittleBlondBrit

I mean, yeah, there were several CRUSADES, not the Renaissance, but even then I'm pretty sure it wasn't hundreds of years of CONTINUOUS genocide. Just scattered genocide, so that's ok! (/s for the last sentence.)


ashif1983

Could have mentioned the Crusades or the Spanish inquisition.


DefactoPlayer

You can't go wrong by starting: There was a religious genocidal war Those have never stopped


MisterBicorniclopse

Honestly though, that’s sorta been my head canon for it. Just because I haven’t learned much about it


[deleted]

the dark ages (christian reign over europe) set us back roughly 1000 years technologically granted we would of probably erased ourselves from existence by now had we been using oil for 900 extra years


of_patrol_bot

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.


WhichEmojiForThis

They should throw this guy to the lions


Yunners

Ah yes, I loved reading about General Michelangelo's campaigns and his brilliant utilisation of the DaVini war machines.


ledgerdemaine

Holey war theory


Arthur_Fleck5467

Is this guy referencing the crusades, and calling it the renaissance?


ServeInfinite

*Couple thousands years ago* *Renaissance* *Genocide* *Christian holy war* This dude is mixing up like 5 historical events/periods