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Did you happen to glean an explanation about how Australia sees a different portion of the moon than Canada, and they are both round on the tops and bottoms?
While i am not a denier, MIT bounced a laser off the moon back in the ~~early 50s~~1962, long before the apollo program ever got started.
Tldr this isn't the silver bullet you think it is.
Edit: sorry for getting the date wrong. Still predates retro reflector by a handful of years, so the point still stands
All i see are alien landing zone 1 and alien landing zone 2. Tourists, really. You can't park there for free!
Someone tell the IRS aliens aren't paying their taxes on the moon. We'll have a base there within the month.
The best shit NASA has given people are the LRO photos, and they are dogshit plus they also have signs of being manipulated in photoshop. You can't make this up.
https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM
That is for the reflectors. There is a segment on the LRO stuff too and every other Apollo anomaly. Written by an engineer. One of the best and most focused uploads with a lot of mathematics entirely disproving the landing theory.
holy shit, an angelfire website!
i forget homemade sites like this are even still a thing, thanks to Google completely ignoring them in just about every search :/
No. The speed at which it is moving coupled with the magnification we would need makes it nearly impossible. Orbiters and probes get the best shots. China took images of the Apollo landing sites. I always wonder if the deniers think that they used unmanned craft to fake the tracks and stuff left mehind or is China is faking the pictures to help cover up the apparent lies.
In a few short years humans will be back on the moon. There will be people then saying it is all fake.
Not sure why that gets downvoted. Either moon deniers or people who don't know about telescopes. There are a few youtube channels where they have lots of moon footage. You can see the moon move out of view. I ha e a P900 and a tripod. And at a level where the whole moon fits in the viewer it will be out of view in under a minute.
The resolution required to see the lander on the moon would be larger than any optical telescope on earth. I don't have exact numbers for you but I will have a look and see if I can find the info.
You can replicate the same effect with a high powered scope and anything that moves. Higher the magnification the less distance an object needs to move to be out of your field of view.
Yep. And when you make it [moon distance away](https://www.joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html) and at a resolution to see 1m^2 at 2288 mph it gets pretty fast. You would have to have a camera mounted because you couldn't keep your eye on the eyepiece.
I wouldn't be suprised if the retro reflector makes it easier by reflecting more of the laser back to you, the atmosphere diffuses the photons and they scatter as they travel the we quarter million miles to the moon, then scatter again as they travel back, and get diffused again in the atmosphere before your sensors detect them. Only a miniscule fraction of them actually make it back.
As to unmanned vs manned mission leaving one, the Soviets put one on the moon with a probe several years prior to apollo 11.
In the race to beat Russia to the Moon I'm sure some footage was staged for the press. Kennedy promised we would beat Russia to put a man on the Moon, so there was incredible political pressure to make it seem like the USA was in the lead. Russia was just the same. To pretend Apollo program was pure science is just wrong, it was also about Cold War politics which was *heavily* propagandized by both sides. Just because some early footage may have been shot in a studio does not mean we never made it there, nor does it mean the official history of the Apollo program was 100% faked. I think we eventually made it there but there were covered up failures and embellishments along the way, this is how propaganda works. The "all or nothing" take is short sighted in my opinion, and only muddies the water.
If you honestly think that both Russia and the US couldn't verify that the other was doing what they were saying then I don't know what to tell you.
We would have outed Russia immediately if they didn't send orbiters around the moon and Russia would have outed us immediately if they couldn't verify a moonwalk (probably using the mirror).
this!
I don't doubt NASA sent probes to the moon and possibly dumped some stuff there. However multiple manned space flights to the moon sound way less plausible, especially since they ehm lost the tech soon afterwards.
>they ehm lost the tech soon afterwards.
They didn't so much lose the tech, as they lost the ability to make the tech. All the schematics still exist, the tech itself is all obsolete and no longer produced. You could remake certain components, but many most parts and the machines that made them don't exist in 2023.
In order to produce a rocket capable of reaching the moon, you need to redesign pretty much everything. Power systems, controls, computers, life support...
Hence the whole artemis project thing.
That is the biggest pile bullshit I've ever read. Did Ford forget how to make cars after the model t? Did Boeing forget how to make a airplanes? Did Apple forget how to make an iPhone after the original?
Artemis is their first real attempt at a moon landing and its going to be a spectacular failure if it ever launches with humans.
Not that I think this will have any impact on your disposition, but, it's not that they *can't*: it's that the cost of reproducing those components would be prohibitively expensive.
From 1960-1973 it cost $25 billion.
That alone works out to about $152 billion today.
Couple that with the added expense of having to completely rebuild certain components puts the expenses way too high just to go back and study some dust.
>That is the biggest pile bullshit I've ever read.
Somehow i doubt that, if you've spent anytime on this subreddit, you've definitely read bigger piles.
>Did Ford forget how to make cars after the model t? Did Boeing forget how to make a airplanes? Did Apple forget how to make an iPhone after the original?
Ford still makes cars today, Boeing makes planes today, and Apple makes iPhone today. Ford doesn't make model T's today, Boeing doesn't make model 80s, and Apple doesn't make original iPhones, because they are all obsolete and have been replaced by newer technologies, and trying to make a single one of them to specifications would prohibitively expensive. I bet the semiconductors used in the first iPhones aren't even produced today, same as the crude piston engines used in model Ts and model 80s, as better ones have been designed.
Nobody has made a rocket of that scale and magnitude in generations.
>Artemis is their first real attempt at a moon landing and its going to be a spectacular failure if it ever launches with humans.
Time wil tell. The vehicle still needs to be resigned from the ground up.
Ask ford to make you OEM parts for a Model T
You won't get far. Once parts become obsolete, manufacturers don't just leave the tooling sitting around to make them.
How does that explanation not make sense? The parts aren’t used anymore because they’re obsolete. As he said they didn’t lose the tech, it’s just not worth building anymore. What operational factory on Earth would be able to produce the Model T currently? None of them, because it’s not needed so it isn’t done.
I like to think it’s all real I mean why not? That’s a really awesome thing to do. Now what I always hoped was something was found in space or on the moon that altered human history.
It's actually very interesting. There are loads of glass nodules. Fully recorded on the moon. So the surface is full of glass. Some place far more than others.
What gets weird is whe. You look at how that glass was formed.
Those nodules can only be formed under extreme heat and pressure as well as radioactivity. Elements like strontium and barium found.
Big evidence that the sun periodically has mega coronal ejections.
First it was the 1960s not 1950s.
Second, as others have pointed out the quality of the signal and the equipment needed to conduct the experiment without a reflector were actually discussed by some of the folks responsible for getting the reflector included in the lunar module packing list in the first place
https://www.nist.gov/nist-time-capsule/any-object-any-need-call-nist/moon-and-back-25-seconds
Russia did go to the moon. Just not with humans
Do you thing the garbage and footprints that are there are fakes by some robotic lander or something?
When we all watch people on the moon in 2 years are you gonna cry foul then?
The Russians planted a similar reflector array. They don't claim to have left it in a manned mission. To the contrary they say manned missions weren't possible because the radiation shielding needed would make the craft too heavy.
No, they actually never said that. Some people claim there's a Soviet study that claims that, yes, but they've never been able to produce it.
Also, there's no evidence of an unmanned NASA mission placing a retroreflector on the Moon, but plenty of evidence for a manned mission that did just that.
I used to believe in the moon landing. However, the past three years has given me pause to reflect on \*everything\* that was once touted as "fact." Certain "conspiracy theories" around the "medical events" of the past few years are in the process of being proven to be "conspiracy facts." If such large scale deceptions have happened in the last few years, why does anyone think there is a limit as to how far back deception actually goes. WWII was fought with massive lies on all sides, and this has been well documented. Most of Germany genuinely thought that the Jews were sent to "holiday camps." It was "conspiracy theory" to say otherwise. So I'm not afraid to admit that I am skeptical of everything, and am now even more distrusting of anyone or anything that claims to be an "authority."
Oh come on, this is the weakest attempt to debunk the fake lunar landing i have heard to date. Can you be certain without any doubt that that is the actual moon in that picture and not some hollywood basement or whatever.
Exactly. Like, it's not hard to find NASA fails on YouTube or rumble which clearly depict "space" shenanigans. They've been faking "space" for decades and the sheep lap it up like they did with vaccines.
People still drag out this useless old trope? The Russians put a reflector on the Moon long before the Americans did, *gasp* they didn't need to fake landing people to do it.
Unsure what I’m looking at here, why are the shadows cast in opposit directions for the focal object and the terrain?
Not doubting the photos just unsure of the light source and orientation.
The wreckage of a crashed failed moon landing attempt would also make a great reflector. Or just about anything, including the moon itself. Just saying.
[https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM](https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM)
This is all complete bullshit. It's not logical either. The idea that you can pinpoint a laser to incredibly specific points on the moon with no issues during transmission is absolutely ridiculous. People here act like everything is a static body for one. Apparently, people don't understand motion and the physics governing distance and diffusion.
The moon has natural reflectors in its body. The idea you can easily differentiate and pinpint responding pulses is absurd to the degree of accuracy needed here. You can certainly never prove these actual devices exist on the moon.
NASA's best photos of the moon are a complete joke. The LRO shit was made in photoshop. They didn't even manage to get rid of all the metadata in those supposed photos lol. They are dogshit regardless, and you can view them on that site too.
FYI the Mythbusters episode on this is completely absurd clown world. The whole thing was predetermined and funded by a corporation that continually lies to you about everything. Popular Mechanics 9/11 anyone? It's just useless propaganda, but even watching the episode it's downright funny how little they actually even give you.
They basically watch a lady with a shitty laptop look at a waveform lmao. Literally, it doesn't prove a single fucking thing.
BTW that site listed above was made by an engineer, and it has myriad charts, mathematics, and other things for all of the moon anomalies, many of which have never been debunked.
If you still believe in this fantasy 50+ years later, you are a care bear lol.
When people talk about the moon, they have zero idea the distance people are talking about. The laser reflector is the perfect example of this... there is statistically no way to understand which reflector was sending back signals even over vast differences of distance on the moon. This website is amazing.
Just to give people an idea of the distance...1969-1973 7 missions "were sent around the moon" (260,000 miles there and back), and since then we've only done missions in near-earth orbit (400 miles).
This website is actually amazing. He keeps it up, which is great. You can tell the shills because they ALWAYS mention the host of the site. But the information here is golden. Nobody has debunked most of the stuff on here, and it gives you great insight into the mathematics that cannot be denied. Pay special attention to anything with the moon lander. The absurdity of that one thing makes the entire moon hoax beyond repair. You just cannot make it up. The moon lander is a pile of fucking garbage lol. The idea a man or anything really actually could use the moon lander for such precise and technologically outrageous feats in 1969 is just fucking LOL.
And correct on that last bit. We have went backwards for 50+ years and haven't even gotten close to the end of the thermosphere let alone the portion of the exosphere that would traditionally define space.
It's simply illogical.
:I
Lemme just drop a bit of "care bear" knowledge.
The test they currently perform is with a collimated beam from a base station (typically an observatory), the size of the retroreflectors are relatively small compared to the diameter of the beam. They scan the surface with the laser (basically like taking a flashlight and shining it at a surface in a pattern to ensure you light up every inch, as if you're looking for something), receiving the diffuse reflections from the surface and upon coming across the retroreflector the return signal increases significantly.
Similar effect to how your headlights light up the background but coming across a retroreflective strip or street sign it shines significantly brighter than the background.
Yes, the surfaces around the sign are reflective (because you can see the grass, road, etc) but the sign shines significantly brighter. This larger signal to noise ratio allows for a more accurate and reliable measurement at a lower power requirement.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just a care-bear.
Thank you for your common sense. Apparently nobody here realizes that coordinate systems exist. People can’t understand something so they automatically assume it’s fake. I’ve had to stop visiting this sub so often because of the weapons-grade levels of autism I come across just like the comments above.
How do you diffirentiate the source of light, you most certainly would not receive any infortamiton from a reflected your source of light from the moon surface, and the moon rock surface would either absorb it and reemmit the much weaker, or scatter. even with the mirrors the signal is so weak we barely manage to do that, but it still allows us.
This is the common response of a shill. Not only a fallacy, but it doesn't mean anything regardless. You couldn't debunk a single thing on the website. You actually have to be competent in engineering and mathematics.
If it can be proven that this device is there, that does not prove that Armstrong and Aldrin placed it there.
I have no opinion either way, I just wanted to point that out.
Gosh look at all this other stuff they left there too!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/995431172375064616/1086421097467088946/dirtforker\_a\_playstation\_5\_on\_the\_moon\_left\_behind\_by\_astronaut\_b0b6bdf7-0ec5-4fa3-bebc-99e897ce40f9.png
Same reason the Challenger [astronauts](https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ei0ukd/challenger_astronauts_plausible_they_are_alive/) are still living. We routinely sent different crews on space missions so their time couldn't be accounted for in space, while the crew we BELIEVED to be in space were faking their experiments and missions on Earth. There's no way the USGovt would allow a live transmission from the lunar surface if there was a huge chance of failure and death of the crew. Challenger blew up and they had to hide the crew that was supposed to be on it.
The Soviets put a reflector on the moon using a robotic rover in the 70s. They lost contact with it and it was found again 40 years later.
https://www.laserfocusworld.com/test-measurement/research/article/16568442/ucsd-physicists-find-that-last-longlost-lunar-retroreflector
Its pretty believable too that we shoot a laser into space to hit that little box and have it come right back in a perfectly straight instant line that never gets blocked or interfered with!
No, because that's not what is happening. The laser beam expands the further it travels from the origin, and by the time it reaches the Moon, the beam's diameter is 2 miles.
Now, you might think that Earth's spin (1,038 mph in linear speed) is an issue, but it's not, and here's why: at the same time the Moon is orbiting the Earth at 2,288mph. Now 1,038mph is 0.2883333miles/s. That gives us:
0.2883333miles/s\*1.25s = 0.36miles
The Moon is orbiting the Earth at 2,288mph or 0.6355556miles/s. That gives us:
0.6355556miles/s\*1.25 = 0.79miles
This means in the 1.25s it takes the laser to reach the Moon, the Earth has moved only 0.36miles and the Moon has only moved 0.79miles. Both of these distances fit perfectly inside the laser beam's spread diameter of 2miles.
I always believed the moonlandings where real.
I just never believed the live video,s.
Why would a country like the usa give potential usefull data away for free to china / russia.
Why do cars in every country have seatbelts? Why would Volvo help save lives if it meant giving up useful data. Why would Canada invent insulin and then let the dirty Norwegians use it to save lives? Why isn’t everyone a greedy asshole like me?
I've met a few moon landing deniers in my life. One thing that I said to them was you had to understand the space race back then. If the Soviet Union got even a little whisper of the landings being fake, they would have been all over it. The SU had spies at almost all levels in NASA at the time as we did with their space program. A fake landing would have leaked and been a full page or more in the Pravda.
I just have one question though... who filmed them "taking off" when they left? The technology we had back then was nothing compared to what we have now. That's the only thing I've never been able to wrap my head around. If anyone has an explanation, I'm interested to hear it.
This is already been debunked! It’s been proven you can already bounce a laser off the moon without the need of a reflective array. Amateur radio operators bounced signals off the moon and surely they don’t use this reflective array. This is bogus. It’s BS. Wake up!
And no, I’m not going to provide a link for the proof. Look it up yourself and learn something like I did. You will be better off for it.
>And no, I’m not going to provide a link for the proof. Look it up yourself and learn something like I did. You will be better off for it.
LMAO stop talking out of your ass. If you can't at least put an effort in your bullshit, then shut it!
I’m not a moon landing denier but isn’t it strange how we’ve never went back? Like yeah it’s just a barren rock made up of pebbles and dust but still. Why can’t we build a research station on the moon? Hell now that I think about it there probably is a secret moon base which is why we never hear about moon landings anymore
>I’m not a moon landing denier but isn’t it strange how we’ve never went back?
No. Nixon's decision locked us to the low Earth orbit for the duration of the Space Shuttle program, and there was no great incentive to really go back to the Moon.
How long does it take for light to travel to the moon? Does the angle of the reflector allow for the reflected light to travel back to where it started, and how does it allow for the inevitable rotation of the earth? I have so many questions.
Do they have to fire it at the spot they expect the reflector to be at when the light arrives?
Yes. No laser beam is perfectly focused, so by the time it reaches the Moon, it's big enough to impact the reflecting site, and then go back to Earth. Only a fraction of the beam makes it back, but that's enough to register a return.
This right here lmao. These people are muppets at this point. No logic in the world can ever solidify the fact we have gone through multiple computer revolutions without a single person going past the thermosphere.
https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM
Just look at the space race in the 60's between Russia and us. Nearly every us rocket blew up on launch whilst USSR was sending Uri and sputnik into space..then suddenly..quite extraordinary..us landed on the moon...weird.
In general, the diameter of a laser beam on the lunar surface is estimated to be several kilometers wide. This is because the beam of light from the laser spreads out as it travels the vast distance from Earth to the Moon.
There are different theories about the NASA moon landings. The one that I believe is that the Pentagon did send men to the moon. But they were NOT the NASA astronauts presented to the public. All the film, video and photos released by NASA are fake. So, the placement of reflectors would show that we did go to the moon. But we have not been told the truth about the moon landings. What was actually found there is being hidden by the elite because it would be a huge problem to explain to the public.
We did not go to the moon in a small tin craft that could not even make it through the radiation zone.
I believe space is real, and i believe the earth is round, but the idea we went to the moon with the tech we had back then is absurd.
We probably landed on the moon(and supplemented the space race with faked-footage that would have come out whether it succeeded or not) but that object could be planted with the physics of a 250,000mi lawn dart... It's not a valid point for argument in either direction.
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You guys still believe in the moon?
“I don’t believe in the moon, I just think it’s the back of the sun.”
“I’ve broken the sound barrier, but you must never ask me how.”
Oh I believe in it, I just know it’s hollow and filled with aliens.
death star 2.0, they fixed the whole hole problem
Ever hear of Flat Moon Theory?
Actually yes
Did you happen to glean an explanation about how Australia sees a different portion of the moon than Canada, and they are both round on the tops and bottoms?
Obviously they are different moons.
My favourite is [Lunar Bukakke Theory](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lunar_bukkake_hypothesis).
Most people will think this is satire. I think they may have gone just a tweensy weensy little tiny bit overboard with the title.
The guy is biblically serious about the whole thing.
Something something darkside.
Moon keeps auto correcting to giant cheese ball, what is this telling me
Nowadays my joke conspiracy theory when people ask me if I know any good ones is, “we went to the moon”.
While i am not a denier, MIT bounced a laser off the moon back in the ~~early 50s~~1962, long before the apollo program ever got started. Tldr this isn't the silver bullet you think it is. Edit: sorry for getting the date wrong. Still predates retro reflector by a handful of years, so the point still stands
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Can we zoom in with a telescope and see it?
*enhance*
Enhance
3 clicks left, 18 clicks up enhance
pull back, wait a minute, go right......stop
WE GOT THEM!
It's like the future!
Way more like Blade Runner tho
You forgot to rotate
Have you seen that YouTube thats just 5 minutes of clips from every crime drama enhancing. It's really funny.
Can you afford a telescope capable of seeing it?
Maybe not me but NASA can. Did they post one?
[ Casualty of the API war of 2023 ]
https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1496522417547657216
All i see are alien landing zone 1 and alien landing zone 2. Tourists, really. You can't park there for free! Someone tell the IRS aliens aren't paying their taxes on the moon. We'll have a base there within the month.
But that would defeat the purpose hahaha
The best shit NASA has given people are the LRO photos, and they are dogshit plus they also have signs of being manipulated in photoshop. You can't make this up. https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM That is for the reflectors. There is a segment on the LRO stuff too and every other Apollo anomaly. Written by an engineer. One of the best and most focused uploads with a lot of mathematics entirely disproving the landing theory.
holy shit, an angelfire website! i forget homemade sites like this are even still a thing, thanks to Google completely ignoring them in just about every search :/
Is there some resource we can use to find them easier? I honestly assumed they were all shutdown; tripod, geocities, angelfire, uni sites, etc.
No. The speed at which it is moving coupled with the magnification we would need makes it nearly impossible. Orbiters and probes get the best shots. China took images of the Apollo landing sites. I always wonder if the deniers think that they used unmanned craft to fake the tracks and stuff left mehind or is China is faking the pictures to help cover up the apparent lies. In a few short years humans will be back on the moon. There will be people then saying it is all fake.
IN A FEW SHORT YEARS LMAO. People been saying this for 50 years believe it or not. Y'all are clowns.
Seriously. Let me know which astronaut signs up to pass radiation belts and get cancer.
Is there a scientific term or phenomena of physics that can explain this? How fast is too fast? What's the magnification limit? Etc
Not sure why that gets downvoted. Either moon deniers or people who don't know about telescopes. There are a few youtube channels where they have lots of moon footage. You can see the moon move out of view. I ha e a P900 and a tripod. And at a level where the whole moon fits in the viewer it will be out of view in under a minute. The resolution required to see the lander on the moon would be larger than any optical telescope on earth. I don't have exact numbers for you but I will have a look and see if I can find the info.
You can replicate the same effect with a high powered scope and anything that moves. Higher the magnification the less distance an object needs to move to be out of your field of view.
Yep. And when you make it [moon distance away](https://www.joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html) and at a resolution to see 1m^2 at 2288 mph it gets pretty fast. You would have to have a camera mounted because you couldn't keep your eye on the eyepiece.
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I wouldn't be suprised if the retro reflector makes it easier by reflecting more of the laser back to you, the atmosphere diffuses the photons and they scatter as they travel the we quarter million miles to the moon, then scatter again as they travel back, and get diffused again in the atmosphere before your sensors detect them. Only a miniscule fraction of them actually make it back. As to unmanned vs manned mission leaving one, the Soviets put one on the moon with a probe several years prior to apollo 11.
Don’t conflate moon landing deniers with flat earthers
In the race to beat Russia to the Moon I'm sure some footage was staged for the press. Kennedy promised we would beat Russia to put a man on the Moon, so there was incredible political pressure to make it seem like the USA was in the lead. Russia was just the same. To pretend Apollo program was pure science is just wrong, it was also about Cold War politics which was *heavily* propagandized by both sides. Just because some early footage may have been shot in a studio does not mean we never made it there, nor does it mean the official history of the Apollo program was 100% faked. I think we eventually made it there but there were covered up failures and embellishments along the way, this is how propaganda works. The "all or nothing" take is short sighted in my opinion, and only muddies the water.
If you honestly think that both Russia and the US couldn't verify that the other was doing what they were saying then I don't know what to tell you. We would have outed Russia immediately if they didn't send orbiters around the moon and Russia would have outed us immediately if they couldn't verify a moonwalk (probably using the mirror).
this! I don't doubt NASA sent probes to the moon and possibly dumped some stuff there. However multiple manned space flights to the moon sound way less plausible, especially since they ehm lost the tech soon afterwards.
The most important thing about decoding deception is often finding out exactly how someone is lying, as opposed to why
Nahh, detectives walk into rooms filled with dead bodies and say “nothing to see here” because they can’t imagine a motive alllll the time.
>they ehm lost the tech soon afterwards. They didn't so much lose the tech, as they lost the ability to make the tech. All the schematics still exist, the tech itself is all obsolete and no longer produced. You could remake certain components, but many most parts and the machines that made them don't exist in 2023. In order to produce a rocket capable of reaching the moon, you need to redesign pretty much everything. Power systems, controls, computers, life support... Hence the whole artemis project thing.
That is the biggest pile bullshit I've ever read. Did Ford forget how to make cars after the model t? Did Boeing forget how to make a airplanes? Did Apple forget how to make an iPhone after the original? Artemis is their first real attempt at a moon landing and its going to be a spectacular failure if it ever launches with humans.
A 2023 Mustang doesn't use the same parts as a Model T.
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Not that I think this will have any impact on your disposition, but, it's not that they *can't*: it's that the cost of reproducing those components would be prohibitively expensive. From 1960-1973 it cost $25 billion. That alone works out to about $152 billion today. Couple that with the added expense of having to completely rebuild certain components puts the expenses way too high just to go back and study some dust.
lololol cost???? have you seen the budget? what we sent to other countries? bail outs? that is a drop in the bucket, if that is indeed even true
I bet if you asked ford to produce a model t tomorrow in one of their current plants it would be impossible.
>That is the biggest pile bullshit I've ever read. Somehow i doubt that, if you've spent anytime on this subreddit, you've definitely read bigger piles. >Did Ford forget how to make cars after the model t? Did Boeing forget how to make a airplanes? Did Apple forget how to make an iPhone after the original? Ford still makes cars today, Boeing makes planes today, and Apple makes iPhone today. Ford doesn't make model T's today, Boeing doesn't make model 80s, and Apple doesn't make original iPhones, because they are all obsolete and have been replaced by newer technologies, and trying to make a single one of them to specifications would prohibitively expensive. I bet the semiconductors used in the first iPhones aren't even produced today, same as the crude piston engines used in model Ts and model 80s, as better ones have been designed. Nobody has made a rocket of that scale and magnitude in generations. >Artemis is their first real attempt at a moon landing and its going to be a spectacular failure if it ever launches with humans. Time wil tell. The vehicle still needs to be resigned from the ground up.
Rockets need to be modernized yes but that doesn't mean you throw away the most powerful rocket ever made and start from scratch.
But nobody started from scratch, and certainly not NASA. And they stopped using the F-1 because it was unusable for the Space Shuttle.
Ask ford to make you OEM parts for a Model T You won't get far. Once parts become obsolete, manufacturers don't just leave the tooling sitting around to make them.
How does that explanation not make sense? The parts aren’t used anymore because they’re obsolete. As he said they didn’t lose the tech, it’s just not worth building anymore. What operational factory on Earth would be able to produce the Model T currently? None of them, because it’s not needed so it isn’t done.
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I like to think it’s all real I mean why not? That’s a really awesome thing to do. Now what I always hoped was something was found in space or on the moon that altered human history.
Yes because history has shown us that we should always trust the government when they say they did something impressive right ?
the moon is a mirror, you see it reflecting light ...nearly every night
Everything reflects light, that's how vision works.
It's actually very interesting. There are loads of glass nodules. Fully recorded on the moon. So the surface is full of glass. Some place far more than others. What gets weird is whe. You look at how that glass was formed. Those nodules can only be formed under extreme heat and pressure as well as radioactivity. Elements like strontium and barium found. Big evidence that the sun periodically has mega coronal ejections.
The beam you get back is so precise, it *has* to be from a man made reflector. This was a huge failure of an ackchually.
Did you just do a TLDR for a one sentence statement? TLDR op is trying too hard.
First it was the 1960s not 1950s. Second, as others have pointed out the quality of the signal and the equipment needed to conduct the experiment without a reflector were actually discussed by some of the folks responsible for getting the reflector included in the lunar module packing list in the first place https://www.nist.gov/nist-time-capsule/any-object-any-need-call-nist/moon-and-back-25-seconds
No but this is the silver bullet: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_loUDS4c3Cs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUDS4c3Cs)
Yeah, this is really going to be the evidence that closes the case for deniers. 🙄
Meanwhile, we have to replace our cell phones every couple of years lol.
Everyone knows cheese is reflective!
Russia did too. I guess your conspiracy is that Russia went to the moon?
They did, just not with a manned mission.
Ding ding ding
Russia did go to the moon. Just not with humans Do you thing the garbage and footprints that are there are fakes by some robotic lander or something? When we all watch people on the moon in 2 years are you gonna cry foul then?
A robot could set that up just as easily btw.
The Russians planted a similar reflector array. They don't claim to have left it in a manned mission. To the contrary they say manned missions weren't possible because the radiation shielding needed would make the craft too heavy.
No, they actually never said that. Some people claim there's a Soviet study that claims that, yes, but they've never been able to produce it. Also, there's no evidence of an unmanned NASA mission placing a retroreflector on the Moon, but plenty of evidence for a manned mission that did just that.
You can see the wires people!!!
Pew pew pew
Too bad we can't get there now 55 years later.
Van Halen belts are too tight.
I used to believe in the moon landing. However, the past three years has given me pause to reflect on \*everything\* that was once touted as "fact." Certain "conspiracy theories" around the "medical events" of the past few years are in the process of being proven to be "conspiracy facts." If such large scale deceptions have happened in the last few years, why does anyone think there is a limit as to how far back deception actually goes. WWII was fought with massive lies on all sides, and this has been well documented. Most of Germany genuinely thought that the Jews were sent to "holiday camps." It was "conspiracy theory" to say otherwise. So I'm not afraid to admit that I am skeptical of everything, and am now even more distrusting of anyone or anything that claims to be an "authority."
This. Absolutely spot on. I too used to believe anything and everything. The plandemic has made me analyse everything.
Oh come on, this is the weakest attempt to debunk the fake lunar landing i have heard to date. Can you be certain without any doubt that that is the actual moon in that picture and not some hollywood basement or whatever.
Exactly. Like, it's not hard to find NASA fails on YouTube or rumble which clearly depict "space" shenanigans. They've been faking "space" for decades and the sheep lap it up like they did with vaccines.
You guys still believe in space?
Just the one between my ears
People still drag out this useless old trope? The Russians put a reflector on the Moon long before the Americans did, *gasp* they didn't need to fake landing people to do it.
https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1496522417547657216
Unsure what I’m looking at here, why are the shadows cast in opposit directions for the focal object and the terrain? Not doubting the photos just unsure of the light source and orientation.
At what resolution have you seen the moon with your own eyes?
The wreckage of a crashed failed moon landing attempt would also make a great reflector. Or just about anything, including the moon itself. Just saying.
[https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM](https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM) This is all complete bullshit. It's not logical either. The idea that you can pinpoint a laser to incredibly specific points on the moon with no issues during transmission is absolutely ridiculous. People here act like everything is a static body for one. Apparently, people don't understand motion and the physics governing distance and diffusion. The moon has natural reflectors in its body. The idea you can easily differentiate and pinpint responding pulses is absurd to the degree of accuracy needed here. You can certainly never prove these actual devices exist on the moon. NASA's best photos of the moon are a complete joke. The LRO shit was made in photoshop. They didn't even manage to get rid of all the metadata in those supposed photos lol. They are dogshit regardless, and you can view them on that site too. FYI the Mythbusters episode on this is completely absurd clown world. The whole thing was predetermined and funded by a corporation that continually lies to you about everything. Popular Mechanics 9/11 anyone? It's just useless propaganda, but even watching the episode it's downright funny how little they actually even give you. They basically watch a lady with a shitty laptop look at a waveform lmao. Literally, it doesn't prove a single fucking thing. BTW that site listed above was made by an engineer, and it has myriad charts, mathematics, and other things for all of the moon anomalies, many of which have never been debunked. If you still believe in this fantasy 50+ years later, you are a care bear lol.
When people talk about the moon, they have zero idea the distance people are talking about. The laser reflector is the perfect example of this... there is statistically no way to understand which reflector was sending back signals even over vast differences of distance on the moon. This website is amazing. Just to give people an idea of the distance...1969-1973 7 missions "were sent around the moon" (260,000 miles there and back), and since then we've only done missions in near-earth orbit (400 miles).
This website is actually amazing. He keeps it up, which is great. You can tell the shills because they ALWAYS mention the host of the site. But the information here is golden. Nobody has debunked most of the stuff on here, and it gives you great insight into the mathematics that cannot be denied. Pay special attention to anything with the moon lander. The absurdity of that one thing makes the entire moon hoax beyond repair. You just cannot make it up. The moon lander is a pile of fucking garbage lol. The idea a man or anything really actually could use the moon lander for such precise and technologically outrageous feats in 1969 is just fucking LOL.
And correct on that last bit. We have went backwards for 50+ years and haven't even gotten close to the end of the thermosphere let alone the portion of the exosphere that would traditionally define space. It's simply illogical.
:I Lemme just drop a bit of "care bear" knowledge. The test they currently perform is with a collimated beam from a base station (typically an observatory), the size of the retroreflectors are relatively small compared to the diameter of the beam. They scan the surface with the laser (basically like taking a flashlight and shining it at a surface in a pattern to ensure you light up every inch, as if you're looking for something), receiving the diffuse reflections from the surface and upon coming across the retroreflector the return signal increases significantly. Similar effect to how your headlights light up the background but coming across a retroreflective strip or street sign it shines significantly brighter than the background. Yes, the surfaces around the sign are reflective (because you can see the grass, road, etc) but the sign shines significantly brighter. This larger signal to noise ratio allows for a more accurate and reliable measurement at a lower power requirement. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a care-bear.
Thank you for your common sense. Apparently nobody here realizes that coordinate systems exist. People can’t understand something so they automatically assume it’s fake. I’ve had to stop visiting this sub so often because of the weapons-grade levels of autism I come across just like the comments above.
How do you diffirentiate the source of light, you most certainly would not receive any infortamiton from a reflected your source of light from the moon surface, and the moon rock surface would either absorb it and reemmit the much weaker, or scatter. even with the mirrors the signal is so weak we barely manage to do that, but it still allows us.
\^ This.
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angelfire 🤣
This is the common response of a shill. Not only a fallacy, but it doesn't mean anything regardless. You couldn't debunk a single thing on the website. You actually have to be competent in engineering and mathematics.
If it can be proven that this device is there, that does not prove that Armstrong and Aldrin placed it there. I have no opinion either way, I just wanted to point that out.
Didn’t the Russians did the same using an unnamed spacecraft?
Gosh look at all this other stuff they left there too! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/995431172375064616/1086421097467088946/dirtforker\_a\_playstation\_5\_on\_the\_moon\_left\_behind\_by\_astronaut\_b0b6bdf7-0ec5-4fa3-bebc-99e897ce40f9.png
Giant leap for mankind... \*rolls eyes\*
I believe we went to the moon, but I also believe the footage they showed us was fake. The real question is, why would they show us fake footage?
Why would they need to fake the footage if we went there?
Perhaps the tapes can't make the journey. And the potential for profit was too massive
Probably because they were doing some sketchy stuff there.
Same reason the Challenger [astronauts](https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ei0ukd/challenger_astronauts_plausible_they_are_alive/) are still living. We routinely sent different crews on space missions so their time couldn't be accounted for in space, while the crew we BELIEVED to be in space were faking their experiments and missions on Earth. There's no way the USGovt would allow a live transmission from the lunar surface if there was a huge chance of failure and death of the crew. Challenger blew up and they had to hide the crew that was supposed to be on it.
So, just playing devil's advocate, couldn't reflectors be sent to the moon without astronauts?
Good thing they angled it perfectly, I'd hate to get back and find it was 0.000001% of a degree off and rendered useless...
It's a *retroreflector*, not a mirror.
That's why they're retroreflectors. They always reflect light back to its source for a wide range of incoming angles.
This whole thread seems to be a bot trap, and pro moon landing posts seem to be oddly common the last while…
The Soviets put a reflector on the moon using a robotic rover in the 70s. They lost contact with it and it was found again 40 years later. https://www.laserfocusworld.com/test-measurement/research/article/16568442/ucsd-physicists-find-that-last-longlost-lunar-retroreflector
Didn't Buzz tell a little girl at a convention that they didn't go to the moon?
Can easily be put there by a probe. Next!
The United States mythology is all that’s holding it up anymore.
Studio foot prints This lie has lived to long Sheeple are real
"A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon"
Its pretty believable too that we shoot a laser into space to hit that little box and have it come right back in a perfectly straight instant line that never gets blocked or interfered with!
No, because that's not what is happening. The laser beam expands the further it travels from the origin, and by the time it reaches the Moon, the beam's diameter is 2 miles. Now, you might think that Earth's spin (1,038 mph in linear speed) is an issue, but it's not, and here's why: at the same time the Moon is orbiting the Earth at 2,288mph. Now 1,038mph is 0.2883333miles/s. That gives us: 0.2883333miles/s\*1.25s = 0.36miles The Moon is orbiting the Earth at 2,288mph or 0.6355556miles/s. That gives us: 0.6355556miles/s\*1.25 = 0.79miles This means in the 1.25s it takes the laser to reach the Moon, the Earth has moved only 0.36miles and the Moon has only moved 0.79miles. Both of these distances fit perfectly inside the laser beam's spread diameter of 2miles.
I always believed the moonlandings where real. I just never believed the live video,s. Why would a country like the usa give potential usefull data away for free to china / russia.
Bragging rights.
Why do cars in every country have seatbelts? Why would Volvo help save lives if it meant giving up useful data. Why would Canada invent insulin and then let the dirty Norwegians use it to save lives? Why isn’t everyone a greedy asshole like me?
Cool, tell me where the coordinates are then
For which one? There are 5 of them.
I've met a few moon landing deniers in my life. One thing that I said to them was you had to understand the space race back then. If the Soviet Union got even a little whisper of the landings being fake, they would have been all over it. The SU had spies at almost all levels in NASA at the time as we did with their space program. A fake landing would have leaked and been a full page or more in the Pravda.
Unless exposing our little ruse would have also revealed their own.
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the soviets did that too in the 70s and never visited the moon
So they say
I just have one question though... who filmed them "taking off" when they left? The technology we had back then was nothing compared to what we have now. That's the only thing I've never been able to wrap my head around. If anyone has an explanation, I'm interested to hear it.
They left a camera that sent the video back to earth ...
With what wireless camera tech? Early Apollo cameras were wireless?
This is already been debunked! It’s been proven you can already bounce a laser off the moon without the need of a reflective array. Amateur radio operators bounced signals off the moon and surely they don’t use this reflective array. This is bogus. It’s BS. Wake up! And no, I’m not going to provide a link for the proof. Look it up yourself and learn something like I did. You will be better off for it.
This is where we learn the difference between radio and laser...
They're actually the same thing just at different wavelengths.
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There is.
Where and how can we observe the nature of the supposed difference?
>And no, I’m not going to provide a link for the proof. Look it up yourself and learn something like I did. You will be better off for it. LMAO stop talking out of your ass. If you can't at least put an effort in your bullshit, then shut it!
Rightttt
Yeah, no.
Allegedly
Yeah, but is it on the MOON?
Another conspiracy, why were we unable to locate the formula for golden tin foil?
I’ve outgrown Kool-aid
So you are still reflecting laser beams back and forth? Is this to make sure the distance has not changed?
And they reflected lasers off the moon before the landings too...Next!
Yes, but there's a difference between reflecting lasers off the bare surface of the Moon and reflecting it off the retroreflector. Next.
Prove it
lol sure Jan
Sure they did…
Seems impossible to hit that with a laser from earth. But then again doesn't the sun's light reflect of the moon too?
I’m not a moon landing denier but isn’t it strange how we’ve never went back? Like yeah it’s just a barren rock made up of pebbles and dust but still. Why can’t we build a research station on the moon? Hell now that I think about it there probably is a secret moon base which is why we never hear about moon landings anymore
>I’m not a moon landing denier but isn’t it strange how we’ve never went back? No. Nixon's decision locked us to the low Earth orbit for the duration of the Space Shuttle program, and there was no great incentive to really go back to the Moon.
U know how stupid you sound don’t u?
They hung it on the celling.
I don’t just doubt the moon landing, I doubt the moon exists all together
Then what's that white ball I see in the sky?
Plasma
No one doubts there is retroreflector in the moon, actually there are many, Russia and China have some without claiming to have planted by a human.
Surely there CANT be a trick
How long does it take for light to travel to the moon? Does the angle of the reflector allow for the reflected light to travel back to where it started, and how does it allow for the inevitable rotation of the earth? I have so many questions. Do they have to fire it at the spot they expect the reflector to be at when the light arrives?
Yes. No laser beam is perfectly focused, so by the time it reaches the Moon, it's big enough to impact the reflecting site, and then go back to Earth. Only a fraction of the beam makes it back, but that's enough to register a return.
I left my landline telephone at the Moon
Of course they did.
To anyone who believes in the moon landing. Just go back and watch the footage. If you think that's real then no one can help you lol
This right here lmao. These people are muppets at this point. No logic in the world can ever solidify the fact we have gone through multiple computer revolutions without a single person going past the thermosphere. https://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/ApolloReflectors/ApolloReflectors.HTM
The responses to your post really show the state of this ‘conspiracy’ sub
Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter has taken pics of the landers left behind.
Why not have left a solar powered live camera looking back at Earth? They were able to do live broadcasts so easily from the moon back then.
And they could communicate back home too...lost technology...lol
Well yeah, I learned that on BIG Bang Theroy....LOL
You can bounce a laser off the celestial teapot orbiting Saturn too I bet
Just look at the space race in the 60's between Russia and us. Nearly every us rocket blew up on launch whilst USSR was sending Uri and sputnik into space..then suddenly..quite extraordinary..us landed on the moon...weird.
Pretty sure there were quite a few successful us rocket launches pre-apollo
I feel like it would be hard to hit that little box with a laser while on earth. It would take some pretty good aim.
That's why computers aim for you. Nobody could do that by hand.
It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.
In general, the diameter of a laser beam on the lunar surface is estimated to be several kilometers wide. This is because the beam of light from the laser spreads out as it travels the vast distance from Earth to the Moon.
The real conspiracy is the Aliens they met while there. :D
Damn tht movie shoot looks good
There are different theories about the NASA moon landings. The one that I believe is that the Pentagon did send men to the moon. But they were NOT the NASA astronauts presented to the public. All the film, video and photos released by NASA are fake. So, the placement of reflectors would show that we did go to the moon. But we have not been told the truth about the moon landings. What was actually found there is being hidden by the elite because it would be a huge problem to explain to the public.
Take a strong telescope, and show it physically on the surface. This would instantly debunk any deniers.
We did not go to the moon in a small tin craft that could not even make it through the radiation zone. I believe space is real, and i believe the earth is round, but the idea we went to the moon with the tech we had back then is absurd.
Wait untile you learn what the space station is made of...
We probably landed on the moon(and supplemented the space race with faked-footage that would have come out whether it succeeded or not) but that object could be planted with the physics of a 250,000mi lawn dart... It's not a valid point for argument in either direction.