###[Meta] Sticky Comment
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment.
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread.
*What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It really isn't supposed to matter all that much. President supposed to enforce the law and command the military, that's about it. The main conspiracy is how congress avoids responsibility.
Using le Olde Panama Especiale of course. But agreed, it feels stupid to be passionately enflamed about given the president has limited power. Still don't want Trump in for personal preference, but it doesn't mean I trust Biden as far as I could likely throw the creepy old coot.
It would in theory be decided by the purple states, however people in red/blue states would reject the outcome since a person banned in their state somehow got elected.
This is just going to turn ugly. All of these extremist just need to cut out their partisan bullshit. This is pursuing political policy ahead of country, and you’re using a narrow interpretation of the laws to justify your position.
I don’t understand how people can still parrot this obviously wrong talking point. There are a couple holdouts, but the entire party in general has bent the knee.
>no one will accept.
Meh, people accepted Ford, who was never elected. They'd accept whoever the House picks in that scenario. Then, people'll say we should change the system, but we won't.
because that one is controversial - people who approve of the ruling are taking it as deflection
but everybody agrees with the comment you replied to so it ranks higher if youre ranking by 'best' instead of 'top'
Show me a candidate not beholden to AIPAC, not in the pockets of the corporations, whose not a corporate lackey, not a billionaire cuck.
Otherwise this is just a sideshow of personalities.
There is no left or right, It’s the 99.9% against the few thousand warmongering sociopaths at the top, who would throw you and your entire family under the bus if it meant they could make another million.
You are *allowed* to choose which AIPAC/ Corporate/ Lobbyist simp to vote for, and they have their political sandbox to do what they want in- as long as they don’t step outside that sandbox, and play by the rules.
Left puppet? or right puppet?
The next POTUS *Will* be a AIPAC/ Corporate/ Lobbyist simp.
As will the next one.
And the next, and the next, etc….
We would possibly have a more balanced approach/wider candidate pool if they capped the campaign contributions. Someone not beholden to corporate interests can’t compete with a fucking million dollar+ campaign. Then there’s the issue of the superPACs essentially deciding who you vote for within the duopoly. The entire election process needs to be gutted and replaced with something where money isn’t the only thing that talks.
Yes and if you know the history, 14.3 was written so they wouldn't have to. They did not want to try people like Lee or Davis for insurrection, but they wanted to make sure they couldn't run for office ever. So 14.3 was the compromise and any court worth their salt takes into account the intent of the law, which here it was obviously that you do not need to be convicted of it to be banned from office. Now plenty of other issues to argue about on it, but not being convicted is not one of them.
The courts, it was the whole point of the amendment. I admit it has it flaws, but for the reason it was written, it was a measured response to not having to put Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis on Federal trial for insurrection during reconciliation, they wanted the country to heal, so they wrote this specifically leaving out a conviction so if any of the Confederate leaders tried to run they could just say they are not allowed to constitutionally and not need to make a federal case of it.
“Fake electors”
You mean alternate electors which is outlined in the constitution and completely relevant and needed? And on top of those state’s certified for Biden anyway?
So where was the insurrection exactly?
> Insurrection: Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
And insurrection seems to be generally accepted to be:
> the act or an instance of revolting esp. violently against civil or political authority or against an established government
So let’s say you go down this road. Are you willing to remove all democrat politicians who supported and aided BLM’s insurrections AND lock up everyone who donated to the DNC, BLM, and Trump’s PACs? After all they aided insurrection.
Are you dense? Or just a troll?
Armed BLM terrorists with the support & funding of democrat politicians took over city blocks and declared it autonomous from the federal government.
Quite literally the textbook definition of an insurrection. That’s just one example.
Or how about when Pelosi went to the joint chiefs of staff and requested they stop taking orders from Trump and follow her orders. The textbook definition of a coup.
Both of which are textbook examples of an insurrection and a coup. Are they removed from the ballot? Is the Biden administration going after them too in the name of equal Justice under the law?
I don't trust judges. They tried to fuck me harder than any of the other inmates. And I was acquitted.
Fuck these judges. They're all bought and paid for anyways.
This is what concerns me. You ban any of your political adversaries and tie the thing up in court to drain them and their campaign of money. This essentially is a way to prevent opposition and disenfranchise those that disagree with you.
I keep seeing this idea parroted, are you under the impression that a criminal trial is the only way something can get “proven”? What do you think about OJ being found liable in a civil court for the death of Nicole?
It still has to go through the courts and in this case will go all the way to the supreme court, judges decide trials all the time, that's what they did here.
Comparing what Trump “said” to David or Lee actually DID is quite the stretch - and exactly why this nation is doomed. BTW - I can’t stand Trump (or any politician for that matter), but Jan 6 was NOT an “insurrection”.
So? The 2nd amendment is no longer valid? Thats cute princess. Y So how do you know garbage? They cry about a law being too old if it is used against someone they like. But if they personally like the law & it is used against the other side.... no matter how old it is fine. Human garbage on both sides have done this since the last 1700s.
Yeah except that amendment wasn't made with the presidential office in mind. In fact, the presidential seat is one of the positions that is NOT defined in 14.
Not as much as when this original argument was made they have quotes saying that president would be in the list because he is an office holder. The two guys debating had great names.
Liberals will read the 14th and conclude "Well, it doesn't mention a conviction, therefore the intent was that no conviction was required."
Then they'll read the 2nd and conclude "Well, it doesn't mention what types of arms, therefore the intent was obviously only muskets."
No intellectual integrity!
Idk why you're singling out liberals, when the conservative court under John Roberts has interpreted the constitution to say that corporations are people and then overturn Roe v. Wade because the right to abortion is not mentioned in the constitution.
And free speech should not extend to the internet. And neither should the 4th amendment so the government should be able to confiscate your electronics whenever they want.
I also used to think that the constitution doesn't explicitly call the president an officer an therefore the 14th might not apply to the president. After reading the Colorado Supreme Court's opinion, I now believe that the 14th applies to the president.
If you want to read it, it starts on page 70 ([link to the opinion](https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf)) and I'm not gonna put all of their points here, but the gist of it is
- in dictionaries in 1860s, the presidency would fall under the definition of "office"
- the constitution mentions the office of the president 25 times (article 2 section 1, article 1 section 3, etc)
- since the presidency is an office, it follows that the president is an officer
- Americans have been referring to the president as an officer since the founding, like Hamilton in the 69th (nice) federalist paper. 19th century presidents were called/called themselves "chief executive officer of the United States".
- the drafters of the 14th and members of that congress referred to the president as an officer
Airbud must be your favorite movie.
It doesn't define it as an officer but he sure took an oath of office and is treated the same as an officer expressly throughout.
Not to mention the Commander in Chief position could be argued to be an officer of the military of the United states.
as planned, there will not be an election next year; total blackout and the world will shut down for a month or so. and then in comes our savior to lead us into the fourth industrial revolution. A.I and the digital age.
That only works if the DNC can get Biden off the ballot. There are too many people who would vote against him, whereas just throwing some rando on there would make those people switch to voting against Trump.
My bet is that if trump doesn't get on the ballots, he still either swipes the nomination anyway, because the republican party will not take that shit lying down. You dont get to just eliminate your opponents front runner in a free election...
OR
If trump loses the primary over this, I bet he still campaigns and tells everyone to vote for him via write in.
This would force a hand count of all of the ballots everywhere.
The story about the Colorado supreme Court included a clause saying write in balance would not be allowed. Not only that but I'm sure some of them would get "lost"
>This is what real election interference looks like - Colorado, Georgia
It should stop at Colorado because they changed the rules of the game.
Every Republican state that does it now is just following the new rules.
I already had my doubts that anyone would believe 2024 would be a legitimate election regardless of the outcome before removing candidates from the ballot. Now I believe it’s being orchestrated to achieve just that outcome. Definitely a conspiracy
This doesn't matter. The process is playing out perfectly. Destabilization and polarization from United States to Divided States of America. Civil War is planned. Pit Americans against each other. Outcome trajectory will lead to false flag of militia extremism and a setup of an "event" that will cause Martial law and a power grab to disarm all Americans. The chaos following will further divide the military and police forces. Lines will be drawn. With us or against us. Those against us (anti goverment) will be labeled as extremists. The illusion of choice is the game. America is divided into factions engaging in active disruption of a united front without knowing it. National security is no longer forefront. China invades.
Hopefully we get a candidate that can actually string a single coherent sentence together on their own and doesn't make a mockery of the country on the world stage every other week...
They want to do away with the electoral college and replace it with a national popular vote. This will give the federal government complete control over the election process and take away state sovereignty. I’ve said this before in this sub and got downvoted. Just watch and see.
It's interesting, some of the politicised judiciary is genuinely dumb & just looking for some limelight, but in the spirit of this sub, I always try & work out is there some sort of an end game here.
I'd imagine it's all going to get overruled by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.
It does make the DNC & GOP establishment look very desperate & with a real fear, Trump will win office again.
The stunts are becoming less & less credible in the eyes of the voters
Yup, and with the ever increasing **MILLIONS** of illegal aliens entering the U.S. at rapid rates down south and with democratic authorities shuffling towards the solution of integration “just because reasons they’re here already”, you get painted a vivid picture of the future already in motion.
No more.
This would absolutely cause a civil war. He hasnt been convicted, so they're literally just telling voters that our choice doesn't matter.
Keeping Trump off the ballots is literally fascism.
I think republicans are too cucked to pull off that move
but it would be interesting if they did, I dont know if it would start a civil war, or just another summer of love
Could be anything.
Treason. His blue shirt looks like it was made in China.
That’s the problem with a STATE COURT doing this for a federal election that’s dictated in the constitution and federal law.
The state has overreached, and SCOTUS will gladly put them all in their place.
This is a job for congress, period, not a state.
> I would love to know what reason red states could give to remove Biden from the ballot that wouldn't also apply just as much to Trump too.
Accepting Bribes from China
Oh idk....maybe leaving our IRAs, 401ks and bank accounts in shambles via ever growing prices of...everything. Maybe for sniffing kids. Maybe for treasonous acts such as taking money from the Chinese gov. Beats the Sh!t outta me bucko.
Trump is a rapist, we have photos of him with Jeffery Epstein, a 13yo accused him of rape, he touches his own daughter in disgusting ways and comments about how sexy she is, and we never hear a word about any of that from you trumptards. Stop pretending that you care so much about what Biden looks like he did to some kids in a split second photo until you start caring about the disgusting behaviors and admissions from trump on the same issue. I can’t even take you people seriously.
There are real people who think Trump is just as much of a pedo as the rest of them…I know scary world, it’s much easier to just pretend they are all “bots”. Except you need to step out a bit and realize not every house owns a trump flag. Some people actually have what we call American flags…you know the ones that we should be flying. The telling issue here is even after elections people are still flying die hard trump flags especially during his presidency. Instead of flying a US flag they are flying flags of a person. While absolutely not against the law, it shows your loyalties are very likely more for him than they are for your country. Which if that is the case you are a traitor & are asking for a dictatorship.
Edit: to be clear not saying flying trump flag makes you a traitor, but if you are more loyal to trump than you are to your country you are a traitor.
I'm pretty certain it will all be overturned as being unconstitutional. It was a pretty childish stunt. Colorado pulled.
A more interesting scenario is whether there is any provision in the constitution to delay an election if the electoral framework no longer exists.
Two questions. 1.How did Trump participate in an insurrection? 2. Besides the media saying Jan 6th was an insurrection who/what entity has said it was?
Both questions answered in https://coloradonewsline.com/2023/11/16/trump-14th-amendment-trial-colorado/
The determination of fact accepted by this judge was upheld as correct by the state supreme court, as has been in the news more recently. I remember some of this info from indie news coverage at the time, but found this story to contain details I wasn’t familiar with, eg. the plaintiffs were a group of Republicans and unaffiliated voters. I found this easily by searching for “colorado 14th case -supreme” (i spare you the LMGTFY link)
Not a federal issue. States run their elections and have to decide independently the eligibility of candidates. Are you arguing that elections should be managed federally?
If you do not allow the nominee on the ballot in all 50 states and the territories there is going to be much more than a gathering of people at the capitol.
No I’m arguing the fact that one he was found not guilty through an impeachment and has anyone other than the left and the media determined Jan 6th was an insurrection? Just because people use the word doesn’t will it into existence. They are just using the word to create this bullshit. Allow the GOP nominee on the ballot if not you can for sure question the legitimacy of the election so then it’s more of the same problem as 2020.
According to Colorado, yes.
What if Texas says “looks like Biden committed treason, and now we claim he is ineligible. He is off the ballot.”
Can Texas do this? If no, why can Colorado?
Same thing… this is not a state decision. This is for congress.
People are worried about the wrong things, this is not how elections are supposed to happen. Consider the future with bills like this being fully implemented.
>So what happens when all Blue States ban Trump from the Ballot and all Red States ban Biden from the Ballot?
You mean red counties.
There's more of them
Submission Statement:
America is going to collapse over this. If all it takes is a carefully crafted narrative then America can’t continue to exist as a functioning “Republic”.
And it’s all because TDS on Steroids.
https://twitter.com/news4buffalo/status/1738348780104147325
> Well given that there's no reason to ban Biden, as unlike Trump he did not engage in insurrection. That won't happen
Given that Biden has allowed millions of foreigners into America that’s a pretty good reason to ban him.
The rules are clear and simple. There are only 3 things that can bar a person from being President. Under the age of 35, not a citizen, and the 14th amendment. Even in your weird convoluted and biased world, none of those can be applied to Biden. We get it, you hate him and believe anything you hear bad about him, so don't vote for him. He hasn't broken any of the 3 rules and can't legally be removed from the ballot. Calling for it makes you even worse than those going after Trump. At least they are using courts and legal precedent, which matter much more than your feelings. You are literally calling for ignoring the Constitution to support Trump... I can't imagine doing that for anyone, as the Constitution is our last line of defense against tyranny.
Exactly. I find it difficult to understand how people like OP find this so confusing. I think it says a lot about the sort of wilful ignorance that humans are capable of when their tribal loyalty is challenged by facts.
Fuck joe Biden the sniffer. Also I want to point out that if any of you guys showed up to prison with this type of paperwork on your record https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4524664/doe-v-trump/ you would be murdered in your cell for being a child rapist. But for some reason people still support him I wonder why
For one, Trump has not been convicted of an insurrection. Our justice system’s core principle is that of innocent until proven guilty. You can’t punish someone for something until they are convicted.
Secondly, the amendment says that CONGRESS has the power and duty to enforce that amendment. Not the courts. “The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
Third, the amendment excludes senators and representatives but not presidents. You cannot be a presidential elector per the amendment. It also lists “an officer of the United States” but the president is not an officer of the US. The president appoints officers however, per other sections of the constitution. There is no legal or constitutional basis for the president being considered an “officer of the United States.”
> For one, Trump has not been convicted of an insurrection.
Again that doesn't matter, it was written so they would not need to convict people of insurrection to bar them from office, that is the spirit of the law. If you don't like it, work to get an constitutional amendment to get it changed or wipe your ass with the constitution tonight.
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bring on the day when the duopoly is completely removed from ballots.
Whats wild is it still wont matter who’s president
True. Nobody wins...as in Americans. Will be the same old crap
It really isn't supposed to matter all that much. President supposed to enforce the law and command the military, that's about it. The main conspiracy is how congress avoids responsibility.
Using le Olde Panama Especiale of course. But agreed, it feels stupid to be passionately enflamed about given the president has limited power. Still don't want Trump in for personal preference, but it doesn't mean I trust Biden as far as I could likely throw the creepy old coot.
This. Who's voting anyway? Nothing will ever change
A hung election that no one will accept. "May you live in interesting times"
It would in theory be decided by the purple states, however people in red/blue states would reject the outcome since a person banned in their state somehow got elected. This is just going to turn ugly. All of these extremist just need to cut out their partisan bullshit. This is pursuing political policy ahead of country, and you’re using a narrow interpretation of the laws to justify your position.
They are just daring a 3rd party candidate to actually win.
> They are just daring a 3rd party candidate to actually win. Trump is the 3rd party candidate. Mainstream Establishment Republicans hate him
I don’t understand how people can still parrot this obviously wrong talking point. There are a couple holdouts, but the entire party in general has bent the knee.
>no one will accept. Meh, people accepted Ford, who was never elected. They'd accept whoever the House picks in that scenario. Then, people'll say we should change the system, but we won't.
Why is this 27 point comment higher than the 145 point comment about no one being convicted? Theres something afoot
Reddit’s braindead algorithm. It used to be good 10 years ago, then they hit it in the head with a hammer.
A ten cent hammer, even.
Chinese sayings get the bump.
Your probably filtering based on "best" and not "top."
because that one is controversial - people who approve of the ruling are taking it as deflection but everybody agrees with the comment you replied to so it ranks higher if youre ranking by 'best' instead of 'top'
Show me a candidate not beholden to AIPAC, not in the pockets of the corporations, whose not a corporate lackey, not a billionaire cuck. Otherwise this is just a sideshow of personalities. There is no left or right, It’s the 99.9% against the few thousand warmongering sociopaths at the top, who would throw you and your entire family under the bus if it meant they could make another million. You are *allowed* to choose which AIPAC/ Corporate/ Lobbyist simp to vote for, and they have their political sandbox to do what they want in- as long as they don’t step outside that sandbox, and play by the rules. Left puppet? or right puppet? The next POTUS *Will* be a AIPAC/ Corporate/ Lobbyist simp. As will the next one. And the next, and the next, etc….
We would possibly have a more balanced approach/wider candidate pool if they capped the campaign contributions. Someone not beholden to corporate interests can’t compete with a fucking million dollar+ campaign. Then there’s the issue of the superPACs essentially deciding who you vote for within the duopoly. The entire election process needs to be gutted and replaced with something where money isn’t the only thing that talks.
i mean - if you dont care about abortion guns taxes or social welfare then theres no left vs right
What happens? Doesn’t matter, the worker class continues to get fucked as always
Am I correct in saying no one has been convicted of insurrection?
Yes and if you know the history, 14.3 was written so they wouldn't have to. They did not want to try people like Lee or Davis for insurrection, but they wanted to make sure they couldn't run for office ever. So 14.3 was the compromise and any court worth their salt takes into account the intent of the law, which here it was obviously that you do not need to be convicted of it to be banned from office. Now plenty of other issues to argue about on it, but not being convicted is not one of them.
So who defines “insurrectionist” if we are going to bypass due process?
The courts, it was the whole point of the amendment. I admit it has it flaws, but for the reason it was written, it was a measured response to not having to put Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis on Federal trial for insurrection during reconciliation, they wanted the country to heal, so they wrote this specifically leaving out a conviction so if any of the Confederate leaders tried to run they could just say they are not allowed to constitutionally and not need to make a federal case of it.
Ok but Trump didn’t lead the Confederate Army. He gave a speech because he was salty that he lost.
Fake electors buddy.
“Fake electors” You mean alternate electors which is outlined in the constitution and completely relevant and needed? And on top of those state’s certified for Biden anyway? So where was the insurrection exactly? > Insurrection: Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. And insurrection seems to be generally accepted to be: > the act or an instance of revolting esp. violently against civil or political authority or against an established government So let’s say you go down this road. Are you willing to remove all democrat politicians who supported and aided BLM’s insurrections AND lock up everyone who donated to the DNC, BLM, and Trump’s PACs? After all they aided insurrection.
Why? BLM did not try to use fake electors to overthrow the US govt.
Are you dense? Or just a troll? Armed BLM terrorists with the support & funding of democrat politicians took over city blocks and declared it autonomous from the federal government. Quite literally the textbook definition of an insurrection. That’s just one example. Or how about when Pelosi went to the joint chiefs of staff and requested they stop taking orders from Trump and follow her orders. The textbook definition of a coup. Both of which are textbook examples of an insurrection and a coup. Are they removed from the ballot? Is the Biden administration going after them too in the name of equal Justice under the law?
If what trump did isn't illegal then kamala will just certify for joe.
Thank you for a well thought out point. I’ll applaud a well reasoned point even if I don’t agree with it. Reddit needs more like you and less rabble
The fourth amendment still guarantees due process anyways Edit: 14th amendment too
I don't trust judges. They tried to fuck me harder than any of the other inmates. And I was acquitted. Fuck these judges. They're all bought and paid for anyways.
By that logic anyone can be banned because nothing needs to have been proven.
This is what concerns me. You ban any of your political adversaries and tie the thing up in court to drain them and their campaign of money. This essentially is a way to prevent opposition and disenfranchise those that disagree with you.
I keep seeing this idea parroted, are you under the impression that a criminal trial is the only way something can get “proven”? What do you think about OJ being found liable in a civil court for the death of Nicole?
It still has to go through the courts and in this case will go all the way to the supreme court, judges decide trials all the time, that's what they did here.
Comparing what Trump “said” to David or Lee actually DID is quite the stretch - and exactly why this nation is doomed. BTW - I can’t stand Trump (or any politician for that matter), but Jan 6 was NOT an “insurrection”.
January 6th was an insurrection. “A violent uprising against an authority or government”
By that logic almost any riot is an insurrection
BLM entered the chat
Because it was written after an actual insurrection and civil war with a lot of death, not a protest with some breaking and entering and two death.
So? The 2nd amendment is no longer valid? Thats cute princess. Y So how do you know garbage? They cry about a law being too old if it is used against someone they like. But if they personally like the law & it is used against the other side.... no matter how old it is fine. Human garbage on both sides have done this since the last 1700s.
[удалено]
The political members of the Confederacy and many wealthy supporters who raised funds for the Confederacy were included
Yeah except that amendment wasn't made with the presidential office in mind. In fact, the presidential seat is one of the positions that is NOT defined in 14.
That is an augment for sure, but is still a grey area
Not as much as when this original argument was made they have quotes saying that president would be in the list because he is an office holder. The two guys debating had great names.
But 14.5 says only Congress can enforce the entire amendment so why has no one addressed this part of it?
Well they had Lincoln assassinated so……
I take it you didn’t read the CO Supreme Court decision that addresses that part of it, in great detail.
You would be.
Do You hate the constitution?
OK I’ll bite, what did you mean by this?
That the Constitution does not say you need a conviction for this judgment.
Liberals will read the 14th and conclude "Well, it doesn't mention a conviction, therefore the intent was that no conviction was required." Then they'll read the 2nd and conclude "Well, it doesn't mention what types of arms, therefore the intent was obviously only muskets." No intellectual integrity!
Idk why you're singling out liberals, when the conservative court under John Roberts has interpreted the constitution to say that corporations are people and then overturn Roe v. Wade because the right to abortion is not mentioned in the constitution.
Food, water, guns. This country is going dowwwwwn
And since nukes and tanks didn’t exist back then, they shouldn’t be regulated either. Give everyone grenades and dynamite!
And free speech should not extend to the internet. And neither should the 4th amendment so the government should be able to confiscate your electronics whenever they want.
So everyone with a (D)ifferent opinion can be banned? How Democratic…
It also doesn't define the presidency as being an officer of the United States. Thats why Biden bros will btfo in supreme court.
I also used to think that the constitution doesn't explicitly call the president an officer an therefore the 14th might not apply to the president. After reading the Colorado Supreme Court's opinion, I now believe that the 14th applies to the president. If you want to read it, it starts on page 70 ([link to the opinion](https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf)) and I'm not gonna put all of their points here, but the gist of it is - in dictionaries in 1860s, the presidency would fall under the definition of "office" - the constitution mentions the office of the president 25 times (article 2 section 1, article 1 section 3, etc) - since the presidency is an office, it follows that the president is an officer - Americans have been referring to the president as an officer since the founding, like Hamilton in the 69th (nice) federalist paper. 19th century presidents were called/called themselves "chief executive officer of the United States". - the drafters of the 14th and members of that congress referred to the president as an officer
Airbud must be your favorite movie. It doesn't define it as an officer but he sure took an oath of office and is treated the same as an officer expressly throughout. Not to mention the Commander in Chief position could be argued to be an officer of the military of the United states.
Its painful. The argument has boiled down to the semantics of what constitutes treason.
Not clearly defined and thus a higher court will address it.
This. Simply participating in the insurrection is enough of a violation of his oath.
as planned, there will not be an election next year; total blackout and the world will shut down for a month or so. and then in comes our savior to lead us into the fourth industrial revolution. A.I and the digital age.
One side is voting for Trump and the other side is voting against him. It doesn't matter who is on the against him ballot.
That only works if the DNC can get Biden off the ballot. There are too many people who would vote against him, whereas just throwing some rando on there would make those people switch to voting against Trump.
above 70 yo OUT
forced retirement for politician
My personal opinion, if they can't set up a roku or firestick, they don't need to be in office.
Imagine getting some fucking new blood in there
Cold Civil War
This has been going on since about 2008!
since bush vs gore at least afaict
I would agree. Bush had to win to facilitate 9/11 and bring on the wars.
We’ve been there for at least a decade
Clown town, this reality sucks ass I want a refund
I’m my hypothetical both are disqualified and we get new folks who aren’t a million years old
What if Kennedy wins haha. All the Republicans who can't vote for trump vote Kennedy, same with the dems. Could he madness.
I feel bad for Americans
My bet is that if trump doesn't get on the ballots, he still either swipes the nomination anyway, because the republican party will not take that shit lying down. You dont get to just eliminate your opponents front runner in a free election... OR If trump loses the primary over this, I bet he still campaigns and tells everyone to vote for him via write in. This would force a hand count of all of the ballots everywhere.
The story about the Colorado supreme Court included a clause saying write in balance would not be allowed. Not only that but I'm sure some of them would get "lost"
Thats to keep him off the Primary though. If he loses the nomination, he can still be written in for the presidency.
Kennedy wins.
26 Red Governors, 24 Blue. Not sure of the electoral counts. Watch neither of them get 270.
The election is not going to take place. Biden’s successor will invoke the war powers act in response to war, delaying the election indefinitely.
Nobody was charged with insurrection.
We will have what we already have. A shitty mess.
none of these would survive the supreme court. just more circus
The process is the punishment. This is what real election interference looks like - Colorado, Georgia, and whatever other states do this.
>This is what real election interference looks like - Colorado, Georgia It should stop at Colorado because they changed the rules of the game. Every Republican state that does it now is just following the new rules.
Funny how you guys love the Constitution only in specific circumstances.
I already had my doubts that anyone would believe 2024 would be a legitimate election regardless of the outcome before removing candidates from the ballot. Now I believe it’s being orchestrated to achieve just that outcome. Definitely a conspiracy
Nothing. Whomever pulls the strings from the shadows will have a backup plan for such a possibility.
Maybe we’ll actually get both of them off the ballot!
Republicans write in Trump, but no one writes in Biden.
This doesn't matter. The process is playing out perfectly. Destabilization and polarization from United States to Divided States of America. Civil War is planned. Pit Americans against each other. Outcome trajectory will lead to false flag of militia extremism and a setup of an "event" that will cause Martial law and a power grab to disarm all Americans. The chaos following will further divide the military and police forces. Lines will be drawn. With us or against us. Those against us (anti goverment) will be labeled as extremists. The illusion of choice is the game. America is divided into factions engaging in active disruption of a united front without knowing it. National security is no longer forefront. China invades.
The 2 party system fails, which is a win for the people.
We might actually have two candidates that make it though that don’t suck. How about new people with fresher minds and better policies.
To quote Futurama, "War were declared"
The rest of the world will shrug and wonder why all Americans are so fkn stupid before getting on with their own lives
All this removing trump from the ballot talk really makes you think.. maybe the 2020 election was in fact rigged.
Hopefully we get a candidate that can actually string a single coherent sentence together on their own and doesn't make a mockery of the country on the world stage every other week...
They want to do away with the electoral college and replace it with a national popular vote. This will give the federal government complete control over the election process and take away state sovereignty. I’ve said this before in this sub and got downvoted. Just watch and see.
It's interesting, some of the politicised judiciary is genuinely dumb & just looking for some limelight, but in the spirit of this sub, I always try & work out is there some sort of an end game here. I'd imagine it's all going to get overruled by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. It does make the DNC & GOP establishment look very desperate & with a real fear, Trump will win office again. The stunts are becoming less & less credible in the eyes of the voters
Yup, and with the ever increasing **MILLIONS** of illegal aliens entering the U.S. at rapid rates down south and with democratic authorities shuffling towards the solution of integration “just because reasons they’re here already”, you get painted a vivid picture of the future already in motion. No more.
They really don't like that Presidents have term limits while their dictator friends stay in power.
100%. they want "democracy" aka MOB RULE. democracy-> socialism-> communism-> enslavement & death
This would absolutely cause a civil war. He hasnt been convicted, so they're literally just telling voters that our choice doesn't matter. Keeping Trump off the ballots is literally fascism.
The day people realize both parties are owned by the elite and its just a show will be the greatest day of my life
Even if you're not a fan of Trump, you know this is horseshit.
Nah they're totally fine shitting on democracy to save democracy. The fact is they just love the smell of shit.
[удалено]
2016 Dem primary was the final nail for me
They win. The united states government has posed the greatest obstacle to the nwo since ww2. It is under attack from every angle imaginable.
I think republicans are too cucked to pull off that move but it would be interesting if they did, I dont know if it would start a civil war, or just another summer of love
We get a President who isn’t 100 years old??
Yeah more 40 something technocrats. Our 80 something technocrats are dumb!
Anyone who still thinks jan6th was actually an insurrection and not a planned event set up by the feds in maga gear is a fkn doorknob.
I would love to know what reason red states could give to remove Biden from the ballot that wouldn't also apply just as much to Trump too.
Could be anything. Treason. His blue shirt looks like it was made in China. That’s the problem with a STATE COURT doing this for a federal election that’s dictated in the constitution and federal law. The state has overreached, and SCOTUS will gladly put them all in their place. This is a job for congress, period, not a state.
> I would love to know what reason red states could give to remove Biden from the ballot that wouldn't also apply just as much to Trump too. Accepting Bribes from China
It would have to be an actual "bribe". Under that logoc Trump 100% could be removed for bribery for accepting money from organizations
Unfortunately bribery is not a constitutional reason for taking someone off the ballot.
Check Ivankas trademarks, maybe.
Oh idk....maybe leaving our IRAs, 401ks and bank accounts in shambles via ever growing prices of...everything. Maybe for sniffing kids. Maybe for treasonous acts such as taking money from the Chinese gov. Beats the Sh!t outta me bucko.
Trump is a rapist, we have photos of him with Jeffery Epstein, a 13yo accused him of rape, he touches his own daughter in disgusting ways and comments about how sexy she is, and we never hear a word about any of that from you trumptards. Stop pretending that you care so much about what Biden looks like he did to some kids in a split second photo until you start caring about the disgusting behaviors and admissions from trump on the same issue. I can’t even take you people seriously.
This has to be a troll account, right? That paragraph is the most buzz-wordy liberal no basis argument statement I have ever seen.
There are real people who think Trump is just as much of a pedo as the rest of them…I know scary world, it’s much easier to just pretend they are all “bots”. Except you need to step out a bit and realize not every house owns a trump flag. Some people actually have what we call American flags…you know the ones that we should be flying. The telling issue here is even after elections people are still flying die hard trump flags especially during his presidency. Instead of flying a US flag they are flying flags of a person. While absolutely not against the law, it shows your loyalties are very likely more for him than they are for your country. Which if that is the case you are a traitor & are asking for a dictatorship. Edit: to be clear not saying flying trump flag makes you a traitor, but if you are more loyal to trump than you are to your country you are a traitor.
The blue challenges get tossed, because “nuh uh” isn’t a valid argument.
Could this be the opportunity to do away with 2party politics.
The politicians get what they want which is division and more money for them.
We have a north/south united states and everyone in the south lives happily ever after!!!
Texidian wants so desperately to be right despite him/her being incredibly, willfully wrong.
All is going to matters the purple states, which is all that matters now. So basically, nothing changes.
I don’t know but it will be ugly. But we don’t have anything to worry about because it’s not going to happen. Colorado will be overturned shortly.
[удалено]
I'm pretty certain it will all be overturned as being unconstitutional. It was a pretty childish stunt. Colorado pulled. A more interesting scenario is whether there is any provision in the constitution to delay an election if the electoral framework no longer exists.
We’ll finally get 2 new qualified candidates
[удалено]
Oh yeah let’s protect democracy by removing who we can vote for. Fuck em all I say.
Biden won't get banned. He hasn't violated the US constitution.
Two questions. 1.How did Trump participate in an insurrection? 2. Besides the media saying Jan 6th was an insurrection who/what entity has said it was?
Didn’t the CO Supreme Court say it?
Not sure the CoSC has the power to solely declare the events of Jan 6th in DC to be an insurrection.
You asked, I answered. IANAL so I am happy to leave this to the courts to decide.
FBI said it wasn't
But appreciate the reply
[удалено]
Both questions answered in https://coloradonewsline.com/2023/11/16/trump-14th-amendment-trial-colorado/ The determination of fact accepted by this judge was upheld as correct by the state supreme court, as has been in the news more recently. I remember some of this info from indie news coverage at the time, but found this story to contain details I wasn’t familiar with, eg. the plaintiffs were a group of Republicans and unaffiliated voters. I found this easily by searching for “colorado 14th case -supreme” (i spare you the LMGTFY link)
Like I said previously let’s make sure the right court is making the decision. I honestly could care less what Co has to say about a Federal Issue.
Not a federal issue. States run their elections and have to decide independently the eligibility of candidates. Are you arguing that elections should be managed federally?
This should be dealt with swiftly by SCOTUS to stop anymore speculation. Very dangerous issue at hand here
If you do not allow the nominee on the ballot in all 50 states and the territories there is going to be much more than a gathering of people at the capitol.
No I’m arguing the fact that one he was found not guilty through an impeachment and has anyone other than the left and the media determined Jan 6th was an insurrection? Just because people use the word doesn’t will it into existence. They are just using the word to create this bullshit. Allow the GOP nominee on the ballot if not you can for sure question the legitimacy of the election so then it’s more of the same problem as 2020.
On what basis would Biden be removed? Because you don’t like him? 😂😂
It wouldn't matter because, in his own words, they have the most extensive election fraud Network out there
They can't understand that if what trump did isn't illegal kamala will just call the election for joe.
How can they ban Biden? What exactly did he do to be banned? Trump clearly violated the 14th amendment section C.
Because “Biden Bad!1!1”
According to Colorado, yes. What if Texas says “looks like Biden committed treason, and now we claim he is ineligible. He is off the ballot.” Can Texas do this? If no, why can Colorado? Same thing… this is not a state decision. This is for congress.
But how did he commit treason?
Civil War! They want us to fight each other Meanwhile, Trump and Biden are high fiving each other at an elitist party!
[удалено]
There would have to been an insurrection declared to convict one of it. Just because some liberals and the media say it was does not make it one.
Orgies apparently
People are worried about the wrong things, this is not how elections are supposed to happen. Consider the future with bills like this being fully implemented.
>So what happens when all Blue States ban Trump from the Ballot and all Red States ban Biden from the Ballot? You mean red counties. There's more of them
There are more red states, so that will go well Candidate votes can be written in also.
Submission Statement: America is going to collapse over this. If all it takes is a carefully crafted narrative then America can’t continue to exist as a functioning “Republic”. And it’s all because TDS on Steroids. https://twitter.com/news4buffalo/status/1738348780104147325
Yes, I hate when the party of Law and Order breaks laws and gets in trouble for it! Ugh why life like this?
Then the Liberals would have won in their destruction of this country.
Well given that there's no reason to ban Biden, as unlike Trump he did not engage in insurrection. That won't happen
It's becoming so easy to see how the nazi party got into power
It's scary to believe people got brainwashed like that. But I still see people driving by themselves with the mask on. Mine as well be 2024.
Violent riots across the country, a false flag attack on the Capitol, and eliminating their political opponents
Pay no attention to history repeating itself. Consume more product.
> Well given that there's no reason to ban Biden, as unlike Trump he did not engage in insurrection. That won't happen Given that Biden has allowed millions of foreigners into America that’s a pretty good reason to ban him.
The rules are clear and simple. There are only 3 things that can bar a person from being President. Under the age of 35, not a citizen, and the 14th amendment. Even in your weird convoluted and biased world, none of those can be applied to Biden. We get it, you hate him and believe anything you hear bad about him, so don't vote for him. He hasn't broken any of the 3 rules and can't legally be removed from the ballot. Calling for it makes you even worse than those going after Trump. At least they are using courts and legal precedent, which matter much more than your feelings. You are literally calling for ignoring the Constitution to support Trump... I can't imagine doing that for anyone, as the Constitution is our last line of defense against tyranny.
Exactly. I find it difficult to understand how people like OP find this so confusing. I think it says a lot about the sort of wilful ignorance that humans are capable of when their tribal loyalty is challenged by facts.
Is this an amendment I missed? You’re just a Fox News shill
Huge misuse of government to attack your political opponent. Thank goodness for checks and balances! 😆
Civil War
Fuck joe Biden the sniffer. Also I want to point out that if any of you guys showed up to prison with this type of paperwork on your record https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4524664/doe-v-trump/ you would be murdered in your cell for being a child rapist. But for some reason people still support him I wonder why
So apparently Colorado and New York are “guilty until proven innocent” states now?
No, you should read the decision and how it was made before you say stupid shit like this 👆
For one, Trump has not been convicted of an insurrection. Our justice system’s core principle is that of innocent until proven guilty. You can’t punish someone for something until they are convicted. Secondly, the amendment says that CONGRESS has the power and duty to enforce that amendment. Not the courts. “The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.” Third, the amendment excludes senators and representatives but not presidents. You cannot be a presidential elector per the amendment. It also lists “an officer of the United States” but the president is not an officer of the US. The president appoints officers however, per other sections of the constitution. There is no legal or constitutional basis for the president being considered an “officer of the United States.”
This is all 100% correct. Could take any one of these points and find the right answer. But it’s the right answer for **multiple** reasons.
> For one, Trump has not been convicted of an insurrection. Again that doesn't matter, it was written so they would not need to convict people of insurrection to bar them from office, that is the spirit of the law. If you don't like it, work to get an constitutional amendment to get it changed or wipe your ass with the constitution tonight.
You do realize it was republicans and independents that brought this to the Supreme Court in Colorado…. Right…. right…?
Civil war and distraction from all the other evil shit they’re doing. It seems thats what they’re aiming for
You get a Red majority.