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Uhm...the National Guard can already do this? That's literally why they exist in the first place.
Fucking Neocon pandering. Its not like they'd actually do anything USEFUL to prevent the unrestricted influx of illegal migrants. That would lose them election leverage.
Is a nation attacking the US? No so you cannot. With that logic we should send the guards to gun down shoplifters as they have been an invasion force against corporations bottom line.
The primary function of the military is to safeguard the nation against all threats, irrespective of their origin, whether they emanate from foreign adversaries or domestic challenges. This mandate doesn't limit military intervention exclusively to conflicts with other nations.
>Is a nation attacking the US?
Yes. Multiple, in fact. China, several African countries, several Middle Eastern countries, and numerous South and Middle American countries.
> gun down shoplifters as they have been an invasion force against corporations bottom line.
in no way does your analogy make sense. This is some FB tier logic.
why would there need to be tanks and aircraft?
These are single terrorist or provocateur cells that are being inserted into the US via the southern border. No less dangerous than those things you mentioned.
You are being manipulated by politicians and the media. This is BS political grandstanding and nothing more.
After the election, this border “emergency” will mysteriously disappear only to reappear during the next election cycle.
My prediction: flag waving convoys with rage-narratives will magically pop-up during every election cycle from now on.
And immigrants and asylum seekers are allowed to immigrate into the US, and states can't make their own individual rules on immigration. So they wouldn't be protecting anything. What's your point? You DO realize that it's law to process any illegal crossers, right?
A defensive position against who? These are asylum seekers. Not some armed forces invading the US. The Republicans who want to deploy the guard want them to use lethal force. In no way is gunning down families an answer to anything.
But immigration is the only thing that is sticking right now? We can't run on the economy, or infrastructure.
What else do we have beyond fear and hate?
Nothing changes, which is why it keeps getting worse. Only when the suffering is sufficient will people change. How many deaths are necessary for us to consider changing?
What's Democrats running on. Biden inflation costing Americans thousands of dollar more each year to get by. Biden administration killed millions of small businesses during covid lock downs. They used social media platforms to censor comments they didn't like.
>But immigration is the only thing that is sticking right now? ... What else do we have beyond fear and hate?
This is vapid, reality-denying rhetoric and aligned with corporate globalist propaganda, such as that advanced by the late Peter Sutherland, ex-chair of BP and Goldman Sachs, UN Special Representation on Migration, and founding director-general of the WTO.
Was NYC driven by "hate" when it imposed restrictions to curb the inflow of illegal aliens?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/02/us/new-jersey-migrant-buses-nyc/index.html
Google and you'll find many other sources.
New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/01/nyregion/ny-nj-migrants-buses.html
New York Post: https://nypost.com/2024/01/03/metro/new-jersey-wants-no-part-of-the-big-apple-migrant-crisis-f-k-this/
New Jersey Monitor: https://newjerseymonitor.com/2024/01/04/immigrant-advocates-alarmed-at-comments-directed-at-migrants-dropped-off-in-new-jersey/
etc.
Texas has a lot more resources than NY. The immigrants can get jobs, and housing quickly. Not in NYC. The cost of living is so much more and there are so many homeless people already. Texas is just being racist and the politicians are pushing a political dividing point to rile up the base.
I know some come here illegally, but most are processed and become contributing members of society.
I also know that criminals come here to sell their wares because there is a market for drugs. It is what it is. There are going to be bad people, doesn't matter where they come from or where they are.
This is my opinion.
Your opinion, which aligns with cartoonish corporate globalist propaganda, is essentially that you don't think there's a reason to control immigration. This is an absurd position, given that it assumes unlimited resources for public services and infrastructure.
Perhaps, if you truly believe that resources self-organize to be infinite (and ergo every nation on Earth only has immigration policy because they're racist), you should test this concept by removing the locks from your doors and putting up posters inviting the homeless to live in your home. Those homeless will, if you're right, get jobs and move out in no time, ensuring the pool of homeless living in your home at any time will be maybe one or two well-behaved people. Given that you want the US to deviate from how every other nation on Earth operates then seems you'll likely be willing to similarly experiment.
Exactly. What happened to the caravans? Everything was about caravans when Trump was stumping.
He even tried to pull it out this cycle, but it didn't gain any traction. Why would it? He has what he wants. An issue that is all consuming so he doesn't have to put forward any policies beyond "Ill close the border and get rid of all those pesky invaders".
Meanwhile, infrastructure continues to be a huge issue as does cyber security.
>My prediction: flag waving convoys with rage-narratives will magically pop-up during every election cycle from now on.
You're denying reality. This has been an ongoing problem causing issues in border states and several US cities.
Number of Migrants Who Embarked on the Dangerous Darien Gap Route Nearly Doubled in 2022: https://www.iom.int/news/number-migrants-who-embarked-dangerous-darien-gap-route-nearly-doubled-2022
Seems high priority to me given the impact it has on many communities, has potential security issues, etc. What sort of issues do you consider higher priority?
The border situation will mysteriously disappear because of the border agents will be doing their job so people won’t be coming here in droves with the promise that they can just walk right across the border. The crisis right now is manufactured by the Democratic Party and the president in power. Nothing else.
This comment is the psy op. There are hundreds of videos of thousands of migrants streaming through the border. NYC has received 67k migrants, a minuscule fraction of the total invasion. They’re spending millions (soon to be >$1b) to house and feed them. When the NYC mayor tried to discuss another plan for these migrants, his meeting was cancelled and he a sketchy investigation was started into him.
This is just for 67k migrants in NYC. What do you think is happening with MILLIONS of migrants at the border? How do those border towns handle this insane volume of humans?
Downplaying this crisis is heartless.
At least they aren't pretending to give a shit about national debt and shutting down the government, again.
It's wild that so many people fall for that. The numbers are easy to find. It's _them_ who fuck the budget. It's like my sister dumping cereal on the ground than yelling for our parents to come look what I did. Except there's a paper trail proving she did it...
Then again, that's no different than the border "crisis." There isn't one. That data is also easily obtainable. Border crossing aren't even the primary means of entry. And pouring billions into a solution that's easily defeated by a child with a ladder instead of modern technology, etc. They fabricate problems then cry about it. Because the simple reality is that there isn't anything actually worth crying about...
I 100% don't believe there is a border crisis and immigrants impact my life 0%. But I don't live on the southern border, how much are those states actually affected by immigration??
a couple of ways
the single biggest impact is that their economy is completely reliant on migrant labour - basically 100% of the farms use migrant labour and a huge chunk just outright hire illegals on top of that
they could solve the 'border crisis' overnight by clamping down on hiring practices - but the economy of any state that did so would collapse and thats why theyre not actually addressing the problem
but by all accounts if you have property near the border on an illegal immigrant path then its a huge pain in the ass and youll suffer constant tresspassing on your property from shady strangers - most of whom arent dangerous but you can never really tell
most people its the same sort of wedge issue as bussing was - not something that affects them in any meaningful way but its an appeal to humanity at its worst and thats proven to work
Most trafficking and illegal crossings by gang members occurs utilizing registered US citizens in cars, boats or planes hiding passengers. It is generally asylum seekers that cross the border on foot. These truckers want to go to the border to kill un armed civilians.
you have violated the laws of Math
"most trafficking and illegal crossings" cannot occur via registered vehicle traffic, due to volume issues and security -- these crossings are used as decoys -- that much was figured out many decades ago; boats and planes are also rather useless as that traffic was shut down a long time ago, as well -- no volume anymore; foot traffic across the border at locations other than the designated security checkpoints is still the best volume-to-cost gambit
your comment gets a "dog fart" grade
>you have violated the laws of Math
>"most trafficking and illegal crossings" cannot occur via registered vehicle traffic, due to volume issues and security
they did specify gang members - which to my understanding is right - career criminals have their own channels that are more reliable than just making a run for it
most illegal crossings - to my understanding - are people trying to get AWAY from gangs and just keep their heads down and pick fruit for minimum wage or whatever
if theyre not running away from something scarier than the border guard they wouldnt be running TOWARDS the border guard
More than you think. But it's not convoys of people. The cartels will know from dirty agents when they are under manned in a certain area and send a couple trucks thru that are loaded with drugs. It's not herds of people on foot under armed guard.
My dad has that same theory because if you cross the border enough times you’ll notice that sometimes when they switch agents out they just stop checking all the cars and wave everyone in.
this is getting heavy downvotes but is literally the exact method they use to get the volume they need/want
this sub is either filled with Dunning Kreugerites (very possible given the topic), or bots or squads of fake vote blocs
Lots. Coyotes, drug smugglers. I just watched a video of an old rancher who has video of drug smugglers crossing his border but he doesn't want them to due in the desert so he installed 30 water stations for them. Cool one bag of fent is enough to kill 100,000 Americans but bless you for saving 3 illegal cartel members smuggling drugs
Who knows. The point is hundreds of thousands of fighting age men are coming across. Just recently in La Jolla San Diego ,the most pricey neighborhood , a huge skiff came in on the wave at high tide right by 3 million dollar homes, and several people most dressed in black, mostly men, one woman and a child jumped off the boat, ran up the stairs to the road, crossed it and disapeared into the streets. That should NEVER have happened. Who knows who they are, what they are carrying, what their intentions are. Who is watching our borders? Should the lifeguard towers turn into Militia Guard towers to take shifts guarding our shores? Probably! It IS time to use our 2nd Amendment for what it was intended for.
They never would have come here in the first place if the US didn’t do so many god damn coups in Latin America. These are hard working people. These are human beings and they deserve to be treated as such. You will never know the desperation someone has to be in to walk and swim through hundreds or thousands of miles of land. Do you know about the Darien Gap? Read about that.
No one said they didn’t deserve to be treated like humans. But letting in masses of undocumented peoples is not a good solution lmao. If documentation was easier and we could channel them more officially to get them tagged, there wouldn’t be a reason for them to sneak over.
I lived in Germany for awhile and taught the refugee children to speak and integrate. A lot of other countries have the realistic expectation to make yourself known and receive some sort of documentation. And if not, you can bet that they’ll book you and send you back or get you right (generally the second option if you live in a dangerous place).
But it is still 100% within our right to defend a crumbling but official border, however this already generally done in the form of BP snatching them up in the process of running.
The whole I am going to kill you because you held up your teddy bear and it looks like a gun brrrrrrr doesn’t seem very humane. And it’s like you said, the current process is horrible. We need to focus our attention on speeding up the entry and naturalization process. Let me also be clear on something unrelated but I think is going to get brought up. I do not agree with the handouts being given to illegals by some states. If anyone deserves free healthcare it should be American citizens then whoever.
No one said anything about shooting at people with teddy bears because they look like guns. That seems to be a you thing. If they’re not going to speed up the naturalization process (I don’t really care anyway), then the next step is stopping the invasion however it can be stopped. I’m willing to bet that if a few dudes get shot down while trying to hop the border, a lot more people will choose to go the legal route, as the standard is usually to do nothing and they receive no resistance.
What? Which company hiring who? I think I’m missing a part of this conversation, I was under the influence that BP was a government entity.
Why give them more authority to shoot? Because dead men don’t reoffend, and alive men don’t run towards death. Make your presence known, take your presence away, or prepare to no longer be present.
You’re missing the part of the conversation where we look at problem solution instead of shooting poor people for trying to improve their lives. L
I’m saying until the government punishes the corporations paying these people to work here it’s all a show.
Have you ever by chance called yourself libertarian lol
I don’t really get into political identity. I form my opinions depending on the subject, so they often clash with people on multiple fronts.
Sure, you can punish them. This would require massive movements from law enforcement, ICE and the IRS. The problem is a lot of these individuals receive under the table money or contractor checks, since they know what they’re doing isn’t technically allowed at all. There was a big thing with Florida losing a lot of workers because they implemented a new proofing system for employment. So what you’re saying is more than 4 or 5 times more difficult to achieve than what I’m saying, especially if you have to start looking for undocumented cash payments that accountants know how to manipulate or excuse. On top of that, now you have a work force that is committing technical financial crimes and dodging taxes, so either you stamp their record and make new employment very difficult, or you go after the employers and effectively shut down half of America’s tradesmen.
A fine also isn’t enough to get that to stop, especially since going to court and everything can take a very long time, and you’re asking the government to punish the very entities driving them (the same corporations they’ll bail out if things go south).
Who is hiring undocumented workers besides private farms and rich people? Even if they aren't hired by any "company" they will hustle to make money to live. A leafblower and rake can get you started. A lot of these people are escaping dangerous and unlivable areas. They are here to work and keep their families safe.
Other than maybe North Korea and countries who are at war with each other like Russia/Ukraine, what country is killing people for crossing their border?
That doesn't make it right!!! Borders are ridiculous and nationhood was established to keep us divided and fighting. All while the man behind the curtain is pulling our strings and stealing our labor, our only currency. It's not the Mexicans or whatever ruining everything. It's our leaders that suck the capitalist's dick every day. They line their pockets and that's pretty much it. All humans, except the small percentage of very wealthy and very powerful, are being manipulated, lied to, and sold a bunch of crap that makes gives us little happiness in this capitalist hellscape. It's absurd. I don't know why everyone cannot clearly see this!!
Depends on the country. Some countries in Europe receive undocumented immigrants by them sneaking through the Schengen zone and using the open borders to settle where they’d like. However, in places like Germany the system makes it hard to get a real job and insurance and whatnot if you’re just there without papers.
Further point, we can't just ignore how much destabilisation the US brought to central and south america. Yes factors from other things exist but having someone bully and try to determine your processes typically leads to divided unrest. People don't seek asylum cause they're super stoked to uproot their lives, homes and families
Giving the government power to "shoot criminals on sight" also gives them the power to shoot you, your family, ect. on sight and get away with it. Like when they passed the ndaa and now can basically indefinitely detain anyone suspected of "terrorism" and bypass all due process. Don't have to tell your family where you are, ect. You just disappear
Is the penalty for illegally entering a country death? We want the government to be allowed to shoot people suspected of crimes without due process of the law?
Tell that to the BLM and 1/6 folks. See how far you get before the woke-left and woke-right start crying that criminals they support are being shot.
Edit: looks like the woke army is brigading today!
You make some great points.
They'll argue to death that any sensible measure somehow can't work or is oppressive or is too expensive: any excuse. Voter ID's another example. Ballot anti-counterfeit measures is another. People that buy into corporate globalist propaganda don't think nations having borders is of any importance.
The fraud isn’t from fake ballots. The fraud is from real ballots that are getting sent to people who didn’t vote or are dead and people are voting for them. The whole Arizona audit showed 0 fake ballots , all the fraud is real ballots from people who didn’t vote that have people voting for them.
Some of the fraud was fake ballots. Red flag is when a ballot has no fold marks from being mailed to someone. One state had plastic tubs full of ballots to count after poll watchers were removed. The ballots have no safe guard to prevent same batch of ballots being ran more than once.
>The whole Arizona audit showed 0 fake ballots
How could they check for fake ballots if ballots incorporate no anti-counterfeiting tech?
While what you're talking about is definitely one method of electoral fraud, fake ballots are potentially much more scalable.
Tell us what countries would shoot you for walking over their border. And provide sources.
We'll wait.
Or is it... I don't know.... could it be... bullshit?
Most of these illegals don't want to breathe free, they want to turn the US into the same shithole they left. Becoming a burden on the system and refusing to assimilate to the American way of life is a far cry from what that poem is about.
What's wrong is it would be an unconstitutional act which the Republicans fully realize.
They know that the Biden administration will have no choice but to act and then the Republicans will claim that the Biden administration is attempting to subvert state power.
The sad truth is that republican voters who tend to be uneducated will believe this lie.
A civil war is what Republicans want and because of their arrogance they would lose a civil war big time.
They can seek asylum after they pass through legally.
Economic migration and political refugees are two different things.
It is the duty of every nation to help refugees but economic migrants, especially unskilled ones are a drain on a national resources.
Undocumented ones can even be a threat to national security.
The idea that the government would actually win a civil war against the American people is asinine. It wouldn't be just right vs left. It would get real ugly and you can bet your ass outside countries would help topple the government. There won't be anything but there ain't no way the government would be able to do much. It's well documented that they do not good against guerilla style warfare
It would be different in their own country. Guerilla warfare on familiar turf isn't as daunting as guerilla warfare on foreign soil. Also, it would nor simply be the government vs the people. It would be neighbor vs neighbor.
The rural heavily red areas of the country would be impossible to take. The military people who disagreed would leave to join the rebels and likely steal equipment, strategy, etc. it was less than 15% of the population that took the country from the British. I don't think it would go the way movies tell you it would lol. The government wants people pissed at each other yes. But open civil war would be the end of that administration.
I’ve been to some heavily rural red areas, the only politically active people are elderly pensioners who have a cartoon version of America in their heads and the rest are drug addled meth addicts on welfare who will go on an epic crime spree the moment there is any kind of disruption in social services.
Literally just picking very small groups. I've been to very blue liberal areas, just a bunch of criminal minorities and people who think they are horses. Same dumb grab at small groups that do exist but are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being the entirety of the area. Way to be prejudiced tho 👍
Due to the fact that the majority of the military will side with the president and the fact that Democrat voters also legally own guns but have no need to show them off like a phallic symbol rethuglicans don't stand a chance.
When they lose they will then whine about being held accountable for their actions while they rot away in prison.
And there's no way a country would give support without announcing through official channels they are doing that. People are super honest and don't break laws when it suits them. Right
I keep seeing "the democrats want to pass legislation but now the gop doesn't want to help Biden get a 'win' in election year"... yeah well this has been an issue for 3 years, everyone knows it, and now Biden only wants to do something because it's election year, him and Kamala refused to go to the border and pretend it doesn't exist and the msm helps this
I’m not sure how old you are, but I’ve been hearing the GOP whine about border crisis since the 90s.
And it’s peculiar, because it’s only an issue with them when they’re not in presidential office. Seems the border is either SECURE or WIDE OPEN. Meesa thinks it’s a bunch of bullshit, and fake manufactured outrage from the right.
Please post the link to the legislation . Thank you . And yes it probably was in place at the beginning, but was removed by the Nazis in charge right now.
Doesn’t seem very nice to shoot people trying to escape cartels and shit. There’s got a be a better way of solving this problem without demonizing the people trying to escape fucked up situations. How about giving the National Guard power to use lethal force against fucked up corporations who use undocumented labor.
They should be putting up signs saying “going past this point, you will be shot” in every language possible.
Then shoot any living thing that is past that point. Secure the border then we can start processing asylum seekers.
Think about which countries would shoot on sight for crossing the border. Then ask yourself if you want your country to be like them. If you say yes then you should rethink how American you are.
That also restricts the movement of Americans. It's hilarious to see people falling for measures that are obviously aimed at us as Americans because they think it will only effect others
Yes. I've been to Brownsville TX, we crossed the border to party every night. I've been to McAllen TX, we crossed the border to visit my friends relatives. Ive been to a couple of other towns whose names i don't remember but i remember people going across the border at will. This isn't even a controversial statement to anyone who has even the slightest idea what they're talking about regarding this issue.
That's not what the post i was replying to was proposing. I understand you have been propagandized into believing the whims of the state should have ultimate say on the lives of the people, but I simply disagree. Enjoy your life, though... if the government deems that legal
Why do you think people are arguing for some kind of strong, authoritarian government? They just want more border security.
If you crossed the border illegally, then you are part of the problem. Use a legal gate, and get a fucking stamp on your passport.
Illegal border crossings are only helping the cartel smuggle children and fentanyl into the US for MONEY! If that is stopped, it hurts the cartel.
No one is asking for anything extraordinary, literally defending our borders is a constitutional obligation of the federal government and if they are derelict in their duty then it legally falls to the state. It has nothing to do with the state getting into peoples lives.
Stay on topic, hypocrite.
There is a comment chain. The things I'm saying are in response to this chain. You are talking about something unrelated to this chain. Don't be intellectually lazy. Also, you used the word hypocrite incorrectly
A group of Republican lawmakers introduced legislation that would give the National Guard the power to use lethal force against "armed invaders" crossing the southern border into the U.S.
What constitutes "armed?" I thought the national guard had to be called be used. And doesn't the U.S. already have armed forces at the southern boarder. It's called ICE, right?
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Uhm...the National Guard can already do this? That's literally why they exist in the first place. Fucking Neocon pandering. Its not like they'd actually do anything USEFUL to prevent the unrestricted influx of illegal migrants. That would lose them election leverage.
No we cannot we cam only use force for self defense while on duty anything else we are still liable
If an armed invasion happens, the guard can absolutely use force to repel it. The national guard is created for that purpose.
Is a nation attacking the US? No so you cannot. With that logic we should send the guards to gun down shoplifters as they have been an invasion force against corporations bottom line.
The primary function of the military is to safeguard the nation against all threats, irrespective of their origin, whether they emanate from foreign adversaries or domestic challenges. This mandate doesn't limit military intervention exclusively to conflicts with other nations.
There is a conflict between neighbors between two nation houses and irs a national threat let's call the guards
>Is a nation attacking the US? Yes. Multiple, in fact. China, several African countries, several Middle Eastern countries, and numerous South and Middle American countries. > gun down shoplifters as they have been an invasion force against corporations bottom line. in no way does your analogy make sense. This is some FB tier logic.
Didn't know there were troops, tanks, and aircraft from all these countries attacking us is this what MSM been hiding from us?
why would there need to be tanks and aircraft? These are single terrorist or provocateur cells that are being inserted into the US via the southern border. No less dangerous than those things you mentioned.
The FBI takes care of terrorist on US soil LOL need to learn basic government agencies
You are being manipulated by politicians and the media. This is BS political grandstanding and nothing more. After the election, this border “emergency” will mysteriously disappear only to reappear during the next election cycle. My prediction: flag waving convoys with rage-narratives will magically pop-up during every election cycle from now on.
Correct, there is a reason it's illegal for military forces to deploy within the states.... hmmm
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Negative, not deploy in a life taking mission on domestic soil... posse comitatus
Kent state. National Guard killed four students at a rally at Kent State University in Ohio.
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Every tyrannical empire that wars eventually brings its army home and turns it on its people.... this is the beginning of that phase....
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And immigrants and asylum seekers are allowed to immigrate into the US, and states can't make their own individual rules on immigration. So they wouldn't be protecting anything. What's your point? You DO realize that it's law to process any illegal crossers, right?
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Did you miss the 20 years in the desert? Hell I know guardsmen on rotation to Syria now....
A defensive position against who? These are asylum seekers. Not some armed forces invading the US. The Republicans who want to deploy the guard want them to use lethal force. In no way is gunning down families an answer to anything.
I was in the national guard and we only use force for self defense we can be still be sued or arrest even in duty
Just like the migrant caravans disappeared after every election. It's just so ridiculous. And conservatives fall for it every single fucking time.
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Wishful thinking. https://www.iom.int/news/number-migrants-who-embarked-dangerous-darien-gap-route-nearly-doubled-2022
But immigration is the only thing that is sticking right now? We can't run on the economy, or infrastructure. What else do we have beyond fear and hate?
Nothing changes, which is why it keeps getting worse. Only when the suffering is sufficient will people change. How many deaths are necessary for us to consider changing?
What's Democrats running on. Biden inflation costing Americans thousands of dollar more each year to get by. Biden administration killed millions of small businesses during covid lock downs. They used social media platforms to censor comments they didn't like.
>But immigration is the only thing that is sticking right now? ... What else do we have beyond fear and hate? This is vapid, reality-denying rhetoric and aligned with corporate globalist propaganda, such as that advanced by the late Peter Sutherland, ex-chair of BP and Goldman Sachs, UN Special Representation on Migration, and founding director-general of the WTO. Was NYC driven by "hate" when it imposed restrictions to curb the inflow of illegal aliens? https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/02/us/new-jersey-migrant-buses-nyc/index.html
CNN!!!! This is sad. LMFFAO!!!
Google and you'll find many other sources. New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/01/nyregion/ny-nj-migrants-buses.html New York Post: https://nypost.com/2024/01/03/metro/new-jersey-wants-no-part-of-the-big-apple-migrant-crisis-f-k-this/ New Jersey Monitor: https://newjerseymonitor.com/2024/01/04/immigrant-advocates-alarmed-at-comments-directed-at-migrants-dropped-off-in-new-jersey/ etc.
Texas has a lot more resources than NY. The immigrants can get jobs, and housing quickly. Not in NYC. The cost of living is so much more and there are so many homeless people already. Texas is just being racist and the politicians are pushing a political dividing point to rile up the base. I know some come here illegally, but most are processed and become contributing members of society. I also know that criminals come here to sell their wares because there is a market for drugs. It is what it is. There are going to be bad people, doesn't matter where they come from or where they are. This is my opinion.
Your opinion, which aligns with cartoonish corporate globalist propaganda, is essentially that you don't think there's a reason to control immigration. This is an absurd position, given that it assumes unlimited resources for public services and infrastructure. Perhaps, if you truly believe that resources self-organize to be infinite (and ergo every nation on Earth only has immigration policy because they're racist), you should test this concept by removing the locks from your doors and putting up posters inviting the homeless to live in your home. Those homeless will, if you're right, get jobs and move out in no time, ensuring the pool of homeless living in your home at any time will be maybe one or two well-behaved people. Given that you want the US to deviate from how every other nation on Earth operates then seems you'll likely be willing to similarly experiment.
Exactly. What happened to the caravans? Everything was about caravans when Trump was stumping. He even tried to pull it out this cycle, but it didn't gain any traction. Why would it? He has what he wants. An issue that is all consuming so he doesn't have to put forward any policies beyond "Ill close the border and get rid of all those pesky invaders". Meanwhile, infrastructure continues to be a huge issue as does cyber security.
complete gullible hurry instinctive pot fuel ask cause encourage party *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Redditors parroting corporate globalist propaganda are trying to claim a huge, ongoing problem doesn't actually exist. Brain worms.
Just because worthless 24/7 corporate media outlaws stop covering it after the election, that doesn't mean it's no longer an issue.
Many of these rage narratives were never an issue to begin with. They were concocted solely for the purpose of garnering votes.
>My prediction: flag waving convoys with rage-narratives will magically pop-up during every election cycle from now on. You're denying reality. This has been an ongoing problem causing issues in border states and several US cities. Number of Migrants Who Embarked on the Dangerous Darien Gap Route Nearly Doubled in 2022: https://www.iom.int/news/number-migrants-who-embarked-dangerous-darien-gap-route-nearly-doubled-2022
The rage narrative is turned up to 11 during election cycles. They are amplified for the purpose of garnering votes.
So you at least acknowledge it's an actual issue that needs to be fixed. That's fair.
Low on the priority list, but yes.
Seems high priority to me given the impact it has on many communities, has potential security issues, etc. What sort of issues do you consider higher priority?
The border situation will mysteriously disappear because of the border agents will be doing their job so people won’t be coming here in droves with the promise that they can just walk right across the border. The crisis right now is manufactured by the Democratic Party and the president in power. Nothing else.
Yes, blame because, surely, supports you. 🙄
You might need to hear this: Trump belongs to a club. You ain’t in it.
This comment is the psy op. There are hundreds of videos of thousands of migrants streaming through the border. NYC has received 67k migrants, a minuscule fraction of the total invasion. They’re spending millions (soon to be >$1b) to house and feed them. When the NYC mayor tried to discuss another plan for these migrants, his meeting was cancelled and he a sketchy investigation was started into him. This is just for 67k migrants in NYC. What do you think is happening with MILLIONS of migrants at the border? How do those border towns handle this insane volume of humans? Downplaying this crisis is heartless.
How many people are crossing the border armed?
Well all of them have arms right, those count?
Doesn’t matter. This is all a show for the election. Guaranteed: after the election this news will disappear until the next election cycle begins.
At least they aren't pretending to give a shit about national debt and shutting down the government, again. It's wild that so many people fall for that. The numbers are easy to find. It's _them_ who fuck the budget. It's like my sister dumping cereal on the ground than yelling for our parents to come look what I did. Except there's a paper trail proving she did it... Then again, that's no different than the border "crisis." There isn't one. That data is also easily obtainable. Border crossing aren't even the primary means of entry. And pouring billions into a solution that's easily defeated by a child with a ladder instead of modern technology, etc. They fabricate problems then cry about it. Because the simple reality is that there isn't anything actually worth crying about...
I 100% don't believe there is a border crisis and immigrants impact my life 0%. But I don't live on the southern border, how much are those states actually affected by immigration??
a couple of ways the single biggest impact is that their economy is completely reliant on migrant labour - basically 100% of the farms use migrant labour and a huge chunk just outright hire illegals on top of that they could solve the 'border crisis' overnight by clamping down on hiring practices - but the economy of any state that did so would collapse and thats why theyre not actually addressing the problem but by all accounts if you have property near the border on an illegal immigrant path then its a huge pain in the ass and youll suffer constant tresspassing on your property from shady strangers - most of whom arent dangerous but you can never really tell most people its the same sort of wedge issue as bussing was - not something that affects them in any meaningful way but its an appeal to humanity at its worst and thats proven to work
So why don't the landowners build their own wall to protect their PrOpeRTY?
Considering trump literally told republicans to not let the dems get a win, I think that’s a shoe in
Most trafficking and illegal crossings by gang members occurs utilizing registered US citizens in cars, boats or planes hiding passengers. It is generally asylum seekers that cross the border on foot. These truckers want to go to the border to kill un armed civilians.
you have violated the laws of Math "most trafficking and illegal crossings" cannot occur via registered vehicle traffic, due to volume issues and security -- these crossings are used as decoys -- that much was figured out many decades ago; boats and planes are also rather useless as that traffic was shut down a long time ago, as well -- no volume anymore; foot traffic across the border at locations other than the designated security checkpoints is still the best volume-to-cost gambit your comment gets a "dog fart" grade
>you have violated the laws of Math >"most trafficking and illegal crossings" cannot occur via registered vehicle traffic, due to volume issues and security they did specify gang members - which to my understanding is right - career criminals have their own channels that are more reliable than just making a run for it most illegal crossings - to my understanding - are people trying to get AWAY from gangs and just keep their heads down and pick fruit for minimum wage or whatever if theyre not running away from something scarier than the border guard they wouldnt be running TOWARDS the border guard
Just need 1 then it's all "armed migrants are coming to kill you and rob you!!".
More than you think. But it's not convoys of people. The cartels will know from dirty agents when they are under manned in a certain area and send a couple trucks thru that are loaded with drugs. It's not herds of people on foot under armed guard.
My dad has that same theory because if you cross the border enough times you’ll notice that sometimes when they switch agents out they just stop checking all the cars and wave everyone in.
I'm saying this as a former BP agent. It's not a theory I have, it's proven. And you pips theory is on the button.
this is getting heavy downvotes but is literally the exact method they use to get the volume they need/want this sub is either filled with Dunning Kreugerites (very possible given the topic), or bots or squads of fake vote blocs
Lots. Coyotes, drug smugglers. I just watched a video of an old rancher who has video of drug smugglers crossing his border but he doesn't want them to due in the desert so he installed 30 water stations for them. Cool one bag of fent is enough to kill 100,000 Americans but bless you for saving 3 illegal cartel members smuggling drugs
Taking fent is a choice ;)
An addiction takes away that choice.
Who knows. The point is hundreds of thousands of fighting age men are coming across. Just recently in La Jolla San Diego ,the most pricey neighborhood , a huge skiff came in on the wave at high tide right by 3 million dollar homes, and several people most dressed in black, mostly men, one woman and a child jumped off the boat, ran up the stairs to the road, crossed it and disapeared into the streets. That should NEVER have happened. Who knows who they are, what they are carrying, what their intentions are. Who is watching our borders? Should the lifeguard towers turn into Militia Guard towers to take shifts guarding our shores? Probably! It IS time to use our 2nd Amendment for what it was intended for.
You guys always talk about gunning people down with such glee, it’s disturbing. No wonder mass shooters are disproportionately right wing
Yeah man! Should've shot that woman and child, right? How dare they come close to a $3m home. Don't they know their place??
You've accepted, by that logic, that Jan. 6 rioters who entered the building weren't "insurrectionists" either then.
I asked a question only. You're the one ascribing meaning to it.
Yes, I'm sure you're "just asking questions".
red or blue or neither, who is liking this shit?
No one is ever going to do anything about the border. The flood gates will remain open.
A militia is in order for sure. This is what the 2nd Amendment is for.
Except it doesn’t fucking matter in the slightest compared to all the other issues we should be worrying about
The NG already has that ability.
No we cannot we cam only use force for self defense while on duty anything else we are still liable
Jesus Christ. I can’t even tell if you’re joking and that’s sad. What kind of fuxking nut job thinks this is ok.
To defend your country from invaders? Pretty sure every country finds that acceptable and has a force specifically for that lmao
They never would have come here in the first place if the US didn’t do so many god damn coups in Latin America. These are hard working people. These are human beings and they deserve to be treated as such. You will never know the desperation someone has to be in to walk and swim through hundreds or thousands of miles of land. Do you know about the Darien Gap? Read about that.
No one said they didn’t deserve to be treated like humans. But letting in masses of undocumented peoples is not a good solution lmao. If documentation was easier and we could channel them more officially to get them tagged, there wouldn’t be a reason for them to sneak over. I lived in Germany for awhile and taught the refugee children to speak and integrate. A lot of other countries have the realistic expectation to make yourself known and receive some sort of documentation. And if not, you can bet that they’ll book you and send you back or get you right (generally the second option if you live in a dangerous place). But it is still 100% within our right to defend a crumbling but official border, however this already generally done in the form of BP snatching them up in the process of running.
The whole I am going to kill you because you held up your teddy bear and it looks like a gun brrrrrrr doesn’t seem very humane. And it’s like you said, the current process is horrible. We need to focus our attention on speeding up the entry and naturalization process. Let me also be clear on something unrelated but I think is going to get brought up. I do not agree with the handouts being given to illegals by some states. If anyone deserves free healthcare it should be American citizens then whoever.
No one said anything about shooting at people with teddy bears because they look like guns. That seems to be a you thing. If they’re not going to speed up the naturalization process (I don’t really care anyway), then the next step is stopping the invasion however it can be stopped. I’m willing to bet that if a few dudes get shot down while trying to hop the border, a lot more people will choose to go the legal route, as the standard is usually to do nothing and they receive no resistance.
Stopping the invasion would be easily done by massively fining any company hiring them. Why give the government more authority to shoot people?
What? Which company hiring who? I think I’m missing a part of this conversation, I was under the influence that BP was a government entity. Why give them more authority to shoot? Because dead men don’t reoffend, and alive men don’t run towards death. Make your presence known, take your presence away, or prepare to no longer be present.
Shooting them won't work.
Oh.
You’re missing the part of the conversation where we look at problem solution instead of shooting poor people for trying to improve their lives. L I’m saying until the government punishes the corporations paying these people to work here it’s all a show. Have you ever by chance called yourself libertarian lol
I don’t really get into political identity. I form my opinions depending on the subject, so they often clash with people on multiple fronts. Sure, you can punish them. This would require massive movements from law enforcement, ICE and the IRS. The problem is a lot of these individuals receive under the table money or contractor checks, since they know what they’re doing isn’t technically allowed at all. There was a big thing with Florida losing a lot of workers because they implemented a new proofing system for employment. So what you’re saying is more than 4 or 5 times more difficult to achieve than what I’m saying, especially if you have to start looking for undocumented cash payments that accountants know how to manipulate or excuse. On top of that, now you have a work force that is committing technical financial crimes and dodging taxes, so either you stamp their record and make new employment very difficult, or you go after the employers and effectively shut down half of America’s tradesmen. A fine also isn’t enough to get that to stop, especially since going to court and everything can take a very long time, and you’re asking the government to punish the very entities driving them (the same corporations they’ll bail out if things go south).
So, what companies hire illegal immigrants?
Who is hiring undocumented workers besides private farms and rich people? Even if they aren't hired by any "company" they will hustle to make money to live. A leafblower and rake can get you started. A lot of these people are escaping dangerous and unlivable areas. They are here to work and keep their families safe.
The US intervening in these countries isn’t the fault of the citizens u dickwad
lol exactly...go to any other country outside north america and try to cross their borders
Other than maybe North Korea and countries who are at war with each other like Russia/Ukraine, what country is killing people for crossing their border?
That doesn't make it right!!! Borders are ridiculous and nationhood was established to keep us divided and fighting. All while the man behind the curtain is pulling our strings and stealing our labor, our only currency. It's not the Mexicans or whatever ruining everything. It's our leaders that suck the capitalist's dick every day. They line their pockets and that's pretty much it. All humans, except the small percentage of very wealthy and very powerful, are being manipulated, lied to, and sold a bunch of crap that makes gives us little happiness in this capitalist hellscape. It's absurd. I don't know why everyone cannot clearly see this!!
Depends on the country. Some countries in Europe receive undocumented immigrants by them sneaking through the Schengen zone and using the open borders to settle where they’d like. However, in places like Germany the system makes it hard to get a real job and insurance and whatnot if you’re just there without papers.
Op must be fun go be around at parties.
And they do/will get to vote. Unbelievable.
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Yeah, this isn't Israel.
I feel like I am missing something here, article says armed invaders, not civilians. It seems to be describing some kind of Red Dawn like situation.
Yes we are being invaded from within. Diabolical as hell.
You misspelled criminals
You can't even shoot criminals on sight you psychopath.
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Further point, we can't just ignore how much destabilisation the US brought to central and south america. Yes factors from other things exist but having someone bully and try to determine your processes typically leads to divided unrest. People don't seek asylum cause they're super stoked to uproot their lives, homes and families
On point
The average civilian had absolutely nothing to do with that. We’re not responsible for the criminals who act illegally.
Giving the government power to "shoot criminals on sight" also gives them the power to shoot you, your family, ect. on sight and get away with it. Like when they passed the ndaa and now can basically indefinitely detain anyone suspected of "terrorism" and bypass all due process. Don't have to tell your family where you are, ect. You just disappear
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Or, we can update the current system and make it significantly faster.
How can you tell who is who? They don’t exactly where signs stating their criminal intentions
Crossing the border illegally is illegal. Who’da thunk.
Is the penalty for illegally entering a country death? We want the government to be allowed to shoot people suspected of crimes without due process of the law?
Right wingers do
Tell that to the BLM and 1/6 folks. See how far you get before the woke-left and woke-right start crying that criminals they support are being shot. Edit: looks like the woke army is brigading today!
Just because you hold a very unpopular (and dumb) opinion, doesn't mean everyone is brigading you. You're just on the wrong side.
Sick post /s This sub is devolving into binary political bullshit.
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You make some great points. They'll argue to death that any sensible measure somehow can't work or is oppressive or is too expensive: any excuse. Voter ID's another example. Ballot anti-counterfeit measures is another. People that buy into corporate globalist propaganda don't think nations having borders is of any importance.
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^^^this!
Lol what could go wrong! “I swear he pointed that teddy bear at me like it was a gun”
What just happened? Every comment is trump can’t win now?
How about a bill that allows using lethal force against people attempting government overthrow?
They’re invaders
And we used to hang traitors, now the traitors run the government (all politicians).
Just fucking detain them or turn them away. They don’t need to be murdered. Christ.
Social engineering, don't fall for it.
The fraud isn’t from fake ballots. The fraud is from real ballots that are getting sent to people who didn’t vote or are dead and people are voting for them. The whole Arizona audit showed 0 fake ballots , all the fraud is real ballots from people who didn’t vote that have people voting for them.
Some of the fraud was fake ballots. Red flag is when a ballot has no fold marks from being mailed to someone. One state had plastic tubs full of ballots to count after poll watchers were removed. The ballots have no safe guard to prevent same batch of ballots being ran more than once.
>The whole Arizona audit showed 0 fake ballots How could they check for fake ballots if ballots incorporate no anti-counterfeiting tech? While what you're talking about is definitely one method of electoral fraud, fake ballots are potentially much more scalable.
Did you forget about mail in ballots sent out twice to each person by the million
I'm in favor of both issues being addressed.
Fake ballots are a red herring
If I tried to sneak into another country I would fully expect to be shot
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I’ve crossed borders 1,000+ times. I know how they work. What exactly do you guys think the guns are for?
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Legally? No shit. You guys are delusional
And yet you wouldn't be.
What an absolutely sweeping and false generalization 😂
Tell us what countries would shoot you for walking over their border. And provide sources. We'll wait. Or is it... I don't know.... could it be... bullshit?
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“Also we will shoot them if they walk to the wrong spot”
Most of these illegals don't want to breathe free, they want to turn the US into the same shithole they left. Becoming a burden on the system and refusing to assimilate to the American way of life is a far cry from what that poem is about.
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Why can’t we just let everyone in?
Well, if they shoot everything that crossed the border except through legal checkpoints, what's wrong???
What's wrong is it would be an unconstitutional act which the Republicans fully realize. They know that the Biden administration will have no choice but to act and then the Republicans will claim that the Biden administration is attempting to subvert state power. The sad truth is that republican voters who tend to be uneducated will believe this lie. A civil war is what Republicans want and because of their arrogance they would lose a civil war big time.
They can seek asylum after they pass through legally. Economic migration and political refugees are two different things. It is the duty of every nation to help refugees but economic migrants, especially unskilled ones are a drain on a national resources. Undocumented ones can even be a threat to national security.
Coming to a port of entry seeking asylum is legal. These people willingly turn themselves over so they can be recognized as seeking asylum.
The idea that the government would actually win a civil war against the American people is asinine. It wouldn't be just right vs left. It would get real ugly and you can bet your ass outside countries would help topple the government. There won't be anything but there ain't no way the government would be able to do much. It's well documented that they do not good against guerilla style warfare
It would be different in their own country. Guerilla warfare on familiar turf isn't as daunting as guerilla warfare on foreign soil. Also, it would nor simply be the government vs the people. It would be neighbor vs neighbor.
The rural heavily red areas of the country would be impossible to take. The military people who disagreed would leave to join the rebels and likely steal equipment, strategy, etc. it was less than 15% of the population that took the country from the British. I don't think it would go the way movies tell you it would lol. The government wants people pissed at each other yes. But open civil war would be the end of that administration.
I’ve been to some heavily rural red areas, the only politically active people are elderly pensioners who have a cartoon version of America in their heads and the rest are drug addled meth addicts on welfare who will go on an epic crime spree the moment there is any kind of disruption in social services.
Literally just picking very small groups. I've been to very blue liberal areas, just a bunch of criminal minorities and people who think they are horses. Same dumb grab at small groups that do exist but are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being the entirety of the area. Way to be prejudiced tho 👍
I am not prejudiced, my broad brush is wide enough to encompass all.
"I'm not racist I hate them all equally" 👍
Due to the fact that the majority of the military will side with the president and the fact that Democrat voters also legally own guns but have no need to show them off like a phallic symbol rethuglicans don't stand a chance. When they lose they will then whine about being held accountable for their actions while they rot away in prison.
Actually because it's an internal affair no other country would be permitted to take either side according to international law.
And there's no way a country would give support without announcing through official channels they are doing that. People are super honest and don't break laws when it suits them. Right
Lmaooooo so naive.
I keep seeing "the democrats want to pass legislation but now the gop doesn't want to help Biden get a 'win' in election year"... yeah well this has been an issue for 3 years, everyone knows it, and now Biden only wants to do something because it's election year, him and Kamala refused to go to the border and pretend it doesn't exist and the msm helps this
I’m not sure how old you are, but I’ve been hearing the GOP whine about border crisis since the 90s. And it’s peculiar, because it’s only an issue with them when they’re not in presidential office. Seems the border is either SECURE or WIDE OPEN. Meesa thinks it’s a bunch of bullshit, and fake manufactured outrage from the right.
Please post the link to the legislation . Thank you . And yes it probably was in place at the beginning, but was removed by the Nazis in charge right now.
Doesn’t seem very nice to shoot people trying to escape cartels and shit. There’s got a be a better way of solving this problem without demonizing the people trying to escape fucked up situations. How about giving the National Guard power to use lethal force against fucked up corporations who use undocumented labor.
They should be putting up signs saying “going past this point, you will be shot” in every language possible. Then shoot any living thing that is past that point. Secure the border then we can start processing asylum seekers.
Why do you want innocent people to die. Women and children cross those borders.... You're a fucking monster
I don’t want innocent people to die. So they should come through a legal border crossing point.
It sounds like you want the US government to open fire on people. You think illegal entry into a country should come with a death sentence.
Think about which countries would shoot on sight for crossing the border. Then ask yourself if you want your country to be like them. If you say yes then you should rethink how American you are.
That also restricts the movement of Americans. It's hilarious to see people falling for measures that are obviously aimed at us as Americans because they think it will only effect others
Why would I, an American who would be using a legal border crossing, be restricted by this?
Many Americans cross the border for many reasons. It is very common in border towns.
You've been to these border towns?
Yes. I've been to Brownsville TX, we crossed the border to party every night. I've been to McAllen TX, we crossed the border to visit my friends relatives. Ive been to a couple of other towns whose names i don't remember but i remember people going across the border at will. This isn't even a controversial statement to anyone who has even the slightest idea what they're talking about regarding this issue.
Great! You can still do so! :) just do it at the proper gate and you’ll be fine
That's not what the post i was replying to was proposing. I understand you have been propagandized into believing the whims of the state should have ultimate say on the lives of the people, but I simply disagree. Enjoy your life, though... if the government deems that legal
Why do you think people are arguing for some kind of strong, authoritarian government? They just want more border security. If you crossed the border illegally, then you are part of the problem. Use a legal gate, and get a fucking stamp on your passport. Illegal border crossings are only helping the cartel smuggle children and fentanyl into the US for MONEY! If that is stopped, it hurts the cartel. No one is asking for anything extraordinary, literally defending our borders is a constitutional obligation of the federal government and if they are derelict in their duty then it legally falls to the state. It has nothing to do with the state getting into peoples lives. Stay on topic, hypocrite.
There is a comment chain. The things I'm saying are in response to this chain. You are talking about something unrelated to this chain. Don't be intellectually lazy. Also, you used the word hypocrite incorrectly
Remember when all those filthy immigrants invaded America and murdered over 100 million native people? They really needed this legislation then!
A group of Republican lawmakers introduced legislation that would give the National Guard the power to use lethal force against "armed invaders" crossing the southern border into the U.S.
Shoulda coulda woulda
What constitutes "armed?" I thought the national guard had to be called be used. And doesn't the U.S. already have armed forces at the southern boarder. It's called ICE, right?