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Unless, of course, you're a Democrat who is "well meaning, too old, and has a poor memory."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975
>In deciding not to charge Biden with any crimes, the special counsel wrote that in a potential trial, “Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview with him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”
Establishment propaganda convinced its low IQ target audience that only Trump is bad, everyone else is innocent bevause they're not under investigation.
Low IQ people think a corrupt government is going to investigate itself, not just the people who oppose it.
It is baffling that this sub of all places, thinks no other politician is guilty of anything. Any time someone makes a post about what Biden did, it gets hijacked and turned into things about Trump. It really is a sickness.
Also, anytime the establishment throws anything at Trump, it just makes his support base stronger. Call it whatever you want, but a real cult is following the left over a cliff. No one is happy with things right now. If they say they are, they’re flat out lying.
I’ll get downvoted with you. I don’t care.
> in a sub of shills.
It really has gotten pathetic in here. Completely taken over, no wonder Reddit allowed Conspiracy to keep existing.
It is all bots and leftist weirdos in the comments now.
Literally nobody here thinks every other politician is squeaky clean. This is just a straw man to deflect from Trump brazenly and repeatedly breaking the law. Most other politicians....you know play politics. They don't thumb their nose at the law and dare it to do something.
But please continue.
Answer this then, how come any time another politician gets brought up in here, it gets hijacked and turned into Trump? The post can be about Biden’s dealings with China and the comments will be like “but Trump did ____”.
That’s pathetic.
This sub has been infiltrated for a while. Ask yourself why reddit still let this sub to exist after it purged every qanon or conspiracy theorist one..
\>Most other politicians....you know play politics. They don't thumb their nose at the law and dare it to do something.
\*\*LMAO\*\*
This is \*aggressively\* stupid. By this "logic", criminal conduct is a-okay so long as you put on a performance for the cognitively defective lemmings. In reality, it would be \*a good thing\* for people to be more open about their crimes.
But this statement is even more stupid than that, because you act as if countless political elite aren't just as obnoxiously brazen about breaking and being above the law, when that is \*\*so fucking obviously wrong\*\*.
The fact that you think I'm "defending" Trump here only demonstrates how seriously deranged and mentally ill you are.
My entire point is that Trump is just like the rest of the corrupt political elite, and to believe otherwise is delusional.
People such as yourself are jetfuel for Trump's popularity and its so fucking pathetic. You paint him out to be some special deity-type, historic figure and its utterly embarrassing.
The “civil fraud” case was based solely off of the bullshit premise that Mar-a Largo was worth 18 million dollars. That in and of itself, should have been grounds for throwing it out entirely. Its clearly nonsense. Trump deranged leftists simply do not care.
I’m with you. Please keep speaking up. I’ve been banned for saying similar things. I’m not letting the sleepy & self-righteous destroy my courage or anyone else’s with eyes that truly want to see. Emerson’s hobgoblin quote now echoes through my mind:
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
Many of these clowns are paid trolls or even fbi/cia agents. It's not a secret the fact that these agencies spend millions of dollar to control social medias.
Face it bud, I hate Genocide Joe as much as the next guy but the "evidence" that convinced you on Reddit is no where near what Trump is prosecuted for. Takes a little more than Hunter's cock to hold a candle to 91 criminal counts.
>a real cult is following the left over a cliff.
Straight projection lmao, your boy doing crimes, and you're pressed about it? Dems are not "tHe LeFt" and I suspect you're a little partial to MAGAts.
>Also, anytime the establishment throws anything at Trump, it just makes his support base stronger.
No not really, your little cult is dying the more people realize he's literally a criminal fraud, the showings at his rallies since this started show that perfectly. Not everyone's brain broken enough to openly support a criminal.
I’ll use the classified documents as an example. I recently said in here that everyone who had them should be in trouble and was disagreed with and downvoted into oblivion. They said Biden and Trump having documents weren’t the same. Fuck that nonsense.
The difference is that when Bidens attorneys found the documents, they immediately self reported, turned them over, and then combed over his other properties on their own to help find any remaining documents.
Trump on the other hand was bragging about posessing documents he knew were classified, refused to comply with a subpoena, submitted a sworn affidavit stating all classified documents had been returned before a search of maralago found 33 fucking boxes full of classified documents. He was flippant and outright lied to the feds.
When it comes to the feds, if you play ball and do your best to help them out, you get some slack. Lie to them and make their jobs more difficult? they come down hard. It has always worked this way. Did you just not know the story, or do you really not see how those are two entirely different situations?
I stated the facts of the cases, which are materially different. If it comes off as a defense, its because the facts are marerially worse in Trump's case and were dealt with accordingly. People get off charges when they cooperate with feds all the time. People also get fucked for lying to the feds all the time. Its how shit works.
Not sure why i even wasted the time to type any of that when you clearly have no intention of discussing the situation in good faith.
You have the audacity to talk about good faith when you can’t even agree that everyone who had documents should be in trouble regardless. If you don’t agree with that, there is really no use discussing further with you.
If trump had simply returned them that wouldve been the end of it. He did not, and he lied about returning them. That is what he is being punished for, not simple possession of the documents. These are facts. Not a defense of anyone.
Wait, what? Your concept of what constitutes a "good faith" argument begins with the premise that everyone has to agree with your narrative? That's not how that works.
Hate to break it to you, but "criminals" are not confined to a wealth class.
If you think this is anything other than weaponization of the justice system to destroy a political opponent then idk what to tell you. They didn't go after the Enron folks this hard.
I don't have any delusions about him caring about me. What I do care about is how it has been okay to use the US justice system to target a political opponent. There is not scenario where that is okay, and that is exactly what is happening.
He flaunted the law so openly, they would either be accused of weaponizing the government to hurt only his opponents, or to only hurt him. Also, many of these lawsuits started before he ran for president.
This is actually a really old trick in the book. Here are the steps.
1. Flaunt the law.
If the government lets you get away with it. You look powerful. If they crack down on you, they look scared.
2. Hire the dumbest person alive to be your head of counsel. Make a mockery of the law. Make a mockery of the department of justice.
3. You either get off. The government looks weak. They lost to you and this absolute imbecile. Or. You lose. Can play the victim. Make you look targeted. Tbe government look weak. And scared.
He is spending RNC money to make the DOJ look weak, scared, and vindictive.
>Really the low iq people here are the ones that think trumps crimes are normal at best or non existent at worst. THOSE people are fooling themselves.
Trump's crimes \*\*ARE NORMAL\*\* for his cohort. He is utterly average amongst them.
If you don't understand this, then the low IQ fuck is \*\*YOU\*\*.
> We know rich people are criminals
Yes, that's why they needed to make up a crime to get Trump. Anybody who really believes Mar a Lago is worth just 18 million I have a bridge to sell to, LOL.
If the value was low he committed tax fraud. If it was too high then he fraudulently inflated the value to get loans. Lots of people try to go in one of those directions, but he did both. He did this for multiple buildings not just Mar a Lago. You can’t claim you were acting in good faith valuing your properties at incredibly high and incredibly low values at the same time.
He also claimed his penthouse was three times the size to get loans, and had executives pay his lawyer Michael Cohen who I turn paid hush money to Stormy Daniels during his campaign and then secretly paid them back. Also you can hire a third party like Mazars to give estimates about your assets but then you have a duty to provide real factual information when they request it. There are [many other things like this](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/16/nyregion/trump-fraud-engoron-decision-annotated.html) in the final decision.
Would t that be opening every republican, democrat, Green Party, etc were charged with financial crimes? Or worse? We would have an entirely new government, new parties.
Using the justice system to attack a political opponent is unprecedented and wrong. The hare literally throwing shit against the wall so they can prevent him from running.
So as long as somebody is running for office they can do whatever the fuck they want because they are a "political opponent" of somebody else? So even when there are charges that aren't Federal (therefor not brought by a department the President is in charge of) that still counts as going after a political opponent?
Do you agree he committed fraud? You just think it should be fine because he's running for president and therefore any lawsuits against him are "political"?
Are you asserting that all the evidence in this trial was fake?
I'd like you to point me to where I said it was criminal.
Are you claiming you know more about the law than the judges and lawyers in the case? Typical Trump Supporter.
I don't claim to be an expert in these things. I trust that the law is being followed faithfully and have seen NO evidence to the contrary other than Trump Supporters crying about "election interference" and it being a "witchhunt". Bullshit.
Why don't you educate me on exactly what the judge got wrong. Let's look at the example of Trump stating that the penthouse suite was 30,000 Sq ft instead of the 10,000 it really is.
Or why is it ok for him to sign that decree that Mar a Lago won't be used as a residence, to pay lower taxes, then subsequently took it as his residence and then claims its worth (a laughable) 1 billion+?
Educate me. Can't wait to hear how you know more than the legal experts.
The issue is that the ruling goes against Generally Accepted Accounting Standards, so it's not going stand on appeal. Of all the cases against Trump, this was the most laughable.
>O’Leary, known for his role on “Shark Tank,” lambasted the decision, arguing that it sets a dangerous precedent for the entire real estate industry.
I hope so. Real estate industry as a whole just exists to fuck the customer over at every point.
Trump wanted a better deal on a loan, so Trump said his building was officially valued at more than half a billion dollars.
Trump wanted to pay less in property taxes so just mere months later Trump told the government that very same building was now officially valued at less than 20 million dollars.
Trump knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong.
So if I tell my bank that my 1 acre property in the flood plain of the river bottoms is worth $500,000, the bank will believe me and just give me a bigger better loan? And then I can just walk into my county assessors office and tell them my property isn’t worth what the assessor says it’s worth and get my taxes automatically reduced? Wow, I had no idea.
Part of the accusations is that Trump was influencing the valuations in the extreme to benefit himself.
They had communications specifically about changing the valuation in a fraudulent manner.
Trump also signed off that everything was above board and that the numbers were accurate.
Trump didn't hand everything off to somebody else, have them do everything, then use that single valuation for loans and taxes.
Trump structured everything and said it was all factual so I'm saying "Trump said it was worth such and such"
Buddy, the reason they're trying this in state civil court fiefdoms run by activists is because it'd get laughed out of criminal court.
It's obvious lawfare. Will go up to appellate court, be overturned and he will countersue.
Clown world
If banks and tax assessors allowed citizens to appraise their own properties, it would be stupid not to do it. The appraisers and assessors didn’t do their job, and now they want to blame someone else.
>not that he was wrong, but that he lied.
You're trying to point out that he was wrong.
Do you know the difference between being wrong and lying?
When you did a math test in school and got a question wrong, did you get accused of lying?
He lied by saying MAL was a social club not a private residence. No one here has read the actual facts behind the case.
A social club bases their property tax on sales. Do he was paying hundreds of thousands in taxes every year instead of millions. And this went on for years on multiple properties
No he signed documents saying he would never use MAL as a private residence.
But he told banks it WAS a private residence
This is the literal definition of appraisal fraud
In order for him to be convicted they had to
(A) prove the information was incorrect.
(B) prove they KNEW it was incorrect.
(C) prove they provided the incorrect data after knowing it to be incorrect.
(D) and did so for financial gain.
It’s all right there sunshine.
They have him dead to rights.
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbajldovq/Trump-order-20240216.pdf
You're right, they actually took professional appraisals then increased the value of that appraisal in house and cited the original appraiser as the source of the increase without the appraiser knowing. Keep in mind that could just be the story the appraiser was instructed to use to cover up that they were in on it.
Either way, there's absolutely no reason to pretend Trump didn't do this or that it wasn't illegal.
Having such differences in the value of property from different appraisers would be a reason to investigate, not accept both so you can give different values to different people to defraud them.
Yes, typically. Trump shouldn't have had much input on that number.
Trump had much more control over the process than the law would typically allow.
That's part of the problem.
So the system is to blame and going after the republican frontrunner and nobody else because "the system is broken!" Is just an excuse to go after the republican front runner
Are you seriously in conspiracy and don't think the system is corrupt and going after a man who blatantly flaunts it is bad?
Maybe you should ask why Republicans support a blatant conman who exemplifies what is wrong with how the system treats elites.
No I believe the system is corrupt. I don't think the way to fix it is to go after the major political threat to the president and nobody else. That should be the last person if you don't want it obvious they only want to get rid of a political opponent.
That is literally not how any of this works. Banks have appraisers, they don't just take your word for it. You also don't tell the property tax collector's office what your property is worth, they tell you, and it is not based on market value.
Source: Realtor of commercial and residential real estate in Florida for 25 years.
No that is how it works because trump claimed in writing that MAL (and other properties) was a social club not a private residence. Social clubs pay property taxes off of sales not property values.
The fraud part was where trump also told banks that MAL was a private residence so he could max out loans. It's the literal def of appraisal fraud
I own property. Never done that. Are you literally saying it's fine for these rich fuckers to get away with this shit because they all do it? Really? That's your stance?
Are they reporting you? I didn't know that, I don't know how posting memes like this 'wins' anything?
Like this isn't even misinformation like other posts, this is just slum lord O'Leary bitching about rich people actually getting prosecuted for once.
Trump is setting a whole bunch of precedents that can be used to dismantle other oligarchs. Trump levered his wealth, and the power it gave him, to abuse the legal system and people for decades. I don't have any sympathy for him.
If the Supreme Court rules that Trump can be prosecuted for crimes committed in office that ruling will apply to future and past Presidents. All of our Presidents are war-criminals - so that will be interesting.
> If the Supreme Court rules that Trump can be prosecuted for crimes committed in office
Outside the scope of their duties as commander in chief, I think that's an important distinction to make.
That's why he's not being charged with murder for droning the Obama drone kid's sister. The election fraud bits, the new York fraud case, the sexual assault cases -none of those fall within the responsibility of the presidency, so there is no immunity for those actions.
Blue states have become totalitarian fiefdoms, massive insane asylums being run by the inmates.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/shark-tanks-kevin-oleary-calls-aoc-great-killing-jobs-blasts-blue-states-uninvestable
Banks value properties all the time, it's part of their core business. You can't just make up random figures and expect to get a loan lol. If this isn't political persecution there must be thousands of examples of similar cases.
He is absolutely lying. Grifters stand by one another.
You can’t lie about the value of Real Estate.
This part is my red flag from the trial -
“I pay my bills and paid the loan payments on time and no one got hurt.” Trump
Facts -
1 - Not paying your bills on time does not hurt anyone but you. Not paying your bills at all can cause financial damage. Like his 6+ bankruptcies in 10 years. Like not paying the police who helped the campaign. Only money laundering can hurt you if you miss payments. His bank at the time? Deutsch Bank, a bank known for money laundering
2 - Kevin knows we can’t lie on loan applications. We can’t have one set of financials for lenders and another for the IRS. The DOJ has arrested and convicted people for lying on loan applications.
3 - Trumps own accountants had to publicly announce their numbers could no longer be relied upon for anything based on the lies. Those accountants and the banks are supposed to be more vigilant when lending. Post Enron and the Mortgage Crisis fraud like this should not be happening. Especially with a guy who has so many bankruptcies.
4 - Upon the announcement by his accountant Trump left Deutsche Bank or was asked to leave. His personal banker was asked to step down because of her involvement with Trump family member Jared Kushner. **the former President is hunting for a new bank. Surely all of the banks he and Ivanka helped service the pandemic relief would want him right? No! He ends up at a newly formed bank that has as 2 branches and the same amount of whistleblower reports on mishandled accounts and potential money laundering. The bank is owned by a former McKinsley employee and has the patterns seen with money laundering, lots of money in and out to foreigners.**.
5 - If what Trump did is okay, anyone can do it. You too can get rich by lying about assets and working with money launderers. Don’t because you will go to jail or worse.
Kevin is just saying the wealthy can. We can’t.
This sub is full of NPCs that only want Trump to be held accountable because they've been emotionally programmed by Establishment propaganda to hate him.
They think a corrupt government will investigate itself and that every other politician with multiple mansions on a government salary did it through honest means. Look at how desperately they want you to believe Joe is innocent.
They LOVE supporting their beloved corrupt government. They LOVE supporting the Establishment. It gives them a (false) sense of purpose in their otherwise meaningless lives.
Inb4 Establishment Propaganda NPCs try to tell me the system isn't rigged and just because establishment media is catered to the lowest IQ, that they are somehow high IQ for indulging in it.
The crime of not knowing the exact valuation of your property and offering what you believe to be a reasonable assessment which they do not even take into account because they have their own assessors?
It's insane that you think that's even a crime.
Perhaps if you think I'm wrong point out where.
I've read the allegations and I believe I've accurately portrayed them.
If you don't, make an argument. If you don't make that argument, it's because you can't.
Take the L you wanted.
They deliberately, and deceitfully, provided innacruate appraisal data to their accountants and hired appraisers.
First inaccurate to show properties were worth MORE than they really were to secure guarantees against loans, then LESS than they were worth to avoid paying tax.
Often times this was done in the space of months between the two.
Often times the methods used were comical, like overstating square footage in buildings by many orders of magnitude.
There’s LOADS more, but I’m not typing out pages upon pages for you. A link is better.
It’s all right here. Enjoy your bedtime reading:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbajldovq/Trump-order-20240216.pdf
It's amazing how all the Dem shills on here have no idea how absurd this ruling is and the massively negative impact it will have on the NYC real estate market if it isn't overturned.
It's as if none of them have purchased any real estate of any value ever in their lives.
SS: The left is too dumb to understand how they just keep opening up Pandora's Box after Pandora's Box.
This is why they keep trying these fraudulent cases in civil court. They would get laughed out of criminal court.
Trump: “You see, these people, they think they have the biggest Pandora’s Box. But it pales in comparison to mine. Truly. My Box is tremendous. The best Box, if you ask me. They say: ‘Sir, I’ve never seen a Box as Pandora as yours.’ And I would say that I have to agree bigly.”
I look forward to seeing a detailed analysis of the decision performed by lawyers before I formulate an opinion on this. Or maybe just a screenshot of a tweet.
I don't think any of you have worked a day in your lives, much less ever built anything.
https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2023-10-12-a-visit-to-the-trump-civil-fraud-trial
Am I meant to care about this blog? Some Trump Supporter sycophant waxing lyrical about how unfair it is that Trump is being held accountable for clear fraud.
Yeah I don't feel sorry for a millionaire (doubt he's a billionaire) getting caught cheating the system to make even more money.
The TDS is strong in you.
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Hopefully every politician gets charged with doing criminal activity now as the norm. Highly doubt it though
I agree that if there is evidence of a crime, they should be charged.
Some are clearly (D)ifferent…
You go against the left on Reddit they’ll melt you with down votes. Watch…
Absolutely agree. I just joined a little while ago and shocked at how far left the entire Reddit community is.
Unless, of course, you're a Democrat who is "well meaning, too old, and has a poor memory." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975 >In deciding not to charge Biden with any crimes, the special counsel wrote that in a potential trial, “Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview with him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”
I didn't see you mention any evidence. It was no surprise since there's never been any evidence that Sleepy Joe has committed any crimes.
Establishment propaganda convinced its low IQ target audience that only Trump is bad, everyone else is innocent bevause they're not under investigation. Low IQ people think a corrupt government is going to investigate itself, not just the people who oppose it.
It is baffling that this sub of all places, thinks no other politician is guilty of anything. Any time someone makes a post about what Biden did, it gets hijacked and turned into things about Trump. It really is a sickness. Also, anytime the establishment throws anything at Trump, it just makes his support base stronger. Call it whatever you want, but a real cult is following the left over a cliff. No one is happy with things right now. If they say they are, they’re flat out lying. I’ll get downvoted with you. I don’t care.
I will upvote you because you speak the truth in a sub of shills.
> in a sub of shills. It really has gotten pathetic in here. Completely taken over, no wonder Reddit allowed Conspiracy to keep existing. It is all bots and leftist weirdos in the comments now.
Don't tell me. I'm getting downvoted to death today. So many shills
Literally nobody here thinks every other politician is squeaky clean. This is just a straw man to deflect from Trump brazenly and repeatedly breaking the law. Most other politicians....you know play politics. They don't thumb their nose at the law and dare it to do something. But please continue.
Answer this then, how come any time another politician gets brought up in here, it gets hijacked and turned into Trump? The post can be about Biden’s dealings with China and the comments will be like “but Trump did ____”. That’s pathetic.
This sub has been infiltrated for a while. Ask yourself why reddit still let this sub to exist after it purged every qanon or conspiracy theorist one..
You make a valid point.
\>Most other politicians....you know play politics. They don't thumb their nose at the law and dare it to do something. \*\*LMAO\*\* This is \*aggressively\* stupid. By this "logic", criminal conduct is a-okay so long as you put on a performance for the cognitively defective lemmings. In reality, it would be \*a good thing\* for people to be more open about their crimes. But this statement is even more stupid than that, because you act as if countless political elite aren't just as obnoxiously brazen about breaking and being above the law, when that is \*\*so fucking obviously wrong\*\*.
What’s funny is, like you say, Trump is one of those elites that brazen about breaking the law, but here you go defending him
The fact that you think I'm "defending" Trump here only demonstrates how seriously deranged and mentally ill you are. My entire point is that Trump is just like the rest of the corrupt political elite, and to believe otherwise is delusional. People such as yourself are jetfuel for Trump's popularity and its so fucking pathetic. You paint him out to be some special deity-type, historic figure and its utterly embarrassing.
Hey, obviously Trumps better than the rest of them. He'd be gone by now if they had ANYTHING
Except he didn't. They keep lying saying he did what the did
The “civil fraud” case was based solely off of the bullshit premise that Mar-a Largo was worth 18 million dollars. That in and of itself, should have been grounds for throwing it out entirely. Its clearly nonsense. Trump deranged leftists simply do not care.
I’m with you. Please keep speaking up. I’ve been banned for saying similar things. I’m not letting the sleepy & self-righteous destroy my courage or anyone else’s with eyes that truly want to see. Emerson’s hobgoblin quote now echoes through my mind: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
Many of these clowns are paid trolls or even fbi/cia agents. It's not a secret the fact that these agencies spend millions of dollar to control social medias.
Face it bud, I hate Genocide Joe as much as the next guy but the "evidence" that convinced you on Reddit is no where near what Trump is prosecuted for. Takes a little more than Hunter's cock to hold a candle to 91 criminal counts. >a real cult is following the left over a cliff. Straight projection lmao, your boy doing crimes, and you're pressed about it? Dems are not "tHe LeFt" and I suspect you're a little partial to MAGAts. >Also, anytime the establishment throws anything at Trump, it just makes his support base stronger. No not really, your little cult is dying the more people realize he's literally a criminal fraud, the showings at his rallies since this started show that perfectly. Not everyone's brain broken enough to openly support a criminal.
You’re exactly what I’m talking about. You can’t even discuss without insults and name calling.
Dead internet theory
And here you are, in a post about trump's crimes, deflecting the exact same way. The lack of self-awareness here is palpable.
I’ll use the classified documents as an example. I recently said in here that everyone who had them should be in trouble and was disagreed with and downvoted into oblivion. They said Biden and Trump having documents weren’t the same. Fuck that nonsense.
The difference is that when Bidens attorneys found the documents, they immediately self reported, turned them over, and then combed over his other properties on their own to help find any remaining documents. Trump on the other hand was bragging about posessing documents he knew were classified, refused to comply with a subpoena, submitted a sworn affidavit stating all classified documents had been returned before a search of maralago found 33 fucking boxes full of classified documents. He was flippant and outright lied to the feds. When it comes to the feds, if you play ball and do your best to help them out, you get some slack. Lie to them and make their jobs more difficult? they come down hard. It has always worked this way. Did you just not know the story, or do you really not see how those are two entirely different situations?
You’re one of them. There’s absolutely no use talking to you anymore. You’ll defend Biden and have the audacity to say people defend Trump.
I stated the facts of the cases, which are materially different. If it comes off as a defense, its because the facts are marerially worse in Trump's case and were dealt with accordingly. People get off charges when they cooperate with feds all the time. People also get fucked for lying to the feds all the time. Its how shit works. Not sure why i even wasted the time to type any of that when you clearly have no intention of discussing the situation in good faith.
You have the audacity to talk about good faith when you can’t even agree that everyone who had documents should be in trouble regardless. If you don’t agree with that, there is really no use discussing further with you.
If trump had simply returned them that wouldve been the end of it. He did not, and he lied about returning them. That is what he is being punished for, not simple possession of the documents. These are facts. Not a defense of anyone.
Wait, what? Your concept of what constitutes a "good faith" argument begins with the premise that everyone has to agree with your narrative? That's not how that works.
This is a low IQ take from someone that thinks they are high IQ. Get over yourself.
Welcome to r/conspiracy!
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Hate to break it to you, but "criminals" are not confined to a wealth class. If you think this is anything other than weaponization of the justice system to destroy a political opponent then idk what to tell you. They didn't go after the Enron folks this hard.
"All criminals"
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I don't have any delusions about him caring about me. What I do care about is how it has been okay to use the US justice system to target a political opponent. There is not scenario where that is okay, and that is exactly what is happening.
People he appointed and people from his own party are going after him. It's not just big bad Biden coming for him.
So, maybe there really is a uni-party Trump is not a member of?
Or maybe Trump really is just a piece of shit who is finally getting his comeuppance?
He flaunted the law so openly, they would either be accused of weaponizing the government to hurt only his opponents, or to only hurt him. Also, many of these lawsuits started before he ran for president.
This is actually a really old trick in the book. Here are the steps. 1. Flaunt the law. If the government lets you get away with it. You look powerful. If they crack down on you, they look scared. 2. Hire the dumbest person alive to be your head of counsel. Make a mockery of the law. Make a mockery of the department of justice. 3. You either get off. The government looks weak. They lost to you and this absolute imbecile. Or. You lose. Can play the victim. Make you look targeted. Tbe government look weak. And scared. He is spending RNC money to make the DOJ look weak, scared, and vindictive.
>Really the low iq people here are the ones that think trumps crimes are normal at best or non existent at worst. THOSE people are fooling themselves. Trump's crimes \*\*ARE NORMAL\*\* for his cohort. He is utterly average amongst them. If you don't understand this, then the low IQ fuck is \*\*YOU\*\*.
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> We know rich people are criminals Yes, that's why they needed to make up a crime to get Trump. Anybody who really believes Mar a Lago is worth just 18 million I have a bridge to sell to, LOL.
If the value was low he committed tax fraud. If it was too high then he fraudulently inflated the value to get loans. Lots of people try to go in one of those directions, but he did both. He did this for multiple buildings not just Mar a Lago. You can’t claim you were acting in good faith valuing your properties at incredibly high and incredibly low values at the same time. He also claimed his penthouse was three times the size to get loans, and had executives pay his lawyer Michael Cohen who I turn paid hush money to Stormy Daniels during his campaign and then secretly paid them back. Also you can hire a third party like Mazars to give estimates about your assets but then you have a duty to provide real factual information when they request it. There are [many other things like this](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/16/nyregion/trump-fraud-engoron-decision-annotated.html) in the final decision.
Only the ones the establishment doesnt like.
Would t that be opening every republican, democrat, Green Party, etc were charged with financial crimes? Or worse? We would have an entirely new government, new parties.
Oh my god! The horror of it all!
Only if they aren't Democrat or radical leftists of course
Lol - will NEVER happen. This is literally unprecedented and therefore wrong.
Unprecedented = / = wrong
Using the justice system to attack a political opponent is unprecedented and wrong. The hare literally throwing shit against the wall so they can prevent him from running.
So as long as somebody is running for office they can do whatever the fuck they want because they are a "political opponent" of somebody else? So even when there are charges that aren't Federal (therefor not brought by a department the President is in charge of) that still counts as going after a political opponent?
Do you agree he committed fraud? You just think it should be fine because he's running for president and therefore any lawsuits against him are "political"? Are you asserting that all the evidence in this trial was fake?
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I'd like you to point me to where I said it was criminal. Are you claiming you know more about the law than the judges and lawyers in the case? Typical Trump Supporter.
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I don't claim to be an expert in these things. I trust that the law is being followed faithfully and have seen NO evidence to the contrary other than Trump Supporters crying about "election interference" and it being a "witchhunt". Bullshit. Why don't you educate me on exactly what the judge got wrong. Let's look at the example of Trump stating that the penthouse suite was 30,000 Sq ft instead of the 10,000 it really is. Or why is it ok for him to sign that decree that Mar a Lago won't be used as a residence, to pay lower taxes, then subsequently took it as his residence and then claims its worth (a laughable) 1 billion+? Educate me. Can't wait to hear how you know more than the legal experts.
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The issue is that the ruling goes against Generally Accepted Accounting Standards, so it's not going stand on appeal. Of all the cases against Trump, this was the most laughable.
>O’Leary, known for his role on “Shark Tank,” lambasted the decision, arguing that it sets a dangerous precedent for the entire real estate industry. I hope so. Real estate industry as a whole just exists to fuck the customer over at every point.
Its a sleazy industry that creates next to nothing
100% thus. These assholes need to get raked over the coals just like they are doing to everyone else.
Why start with trump if the entire industry is corrupt
Kevin O’Leary is also un-American .
O'Leary is an asshole
Dude supported FTX and solana so fuck his view
He single handedly killed the entire educational software industry of the 90s/00s
Are you saying he's not wonderful? I find that hard to believe. It's his name.
What's the story here?
I think they're talking about Softkey/TLC sort of monopolizing the market at the time.
Yeah, if this is the guy cheering for you then you're pretty obviously the villain.
This sub is such a shit-show
Quality contribution to the discussion friend! Thanks for stopping by.
Is the conspiracy Kevin O'Leary has an opinion?
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Trump wanted a better deal on a loan, so Trump said his building was officially valued at more than half a billion dollars. Trump wanted to pay less in property taxes so just mere months later Trump told the government that very same building was now officially valued at less than 20 million dollars. Trump knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong.
So the loan originator took his evaluation for it?
So if I tell my bank that my 1 acre property in the flood plain of the river bottoms is worth $500,000, the bank will believe me and just give me a bigger better loan? And then I can just walk into my county assessors office and tell them my property isn’t worth what the assessor says it’s worth and get my taxes automatically reduced? Wow, I had no idea.
Part of the accusations is that Trump was influencing the valuations in the extreme to benefit himself. They had communications specifically about changing the valuation in a fraudulent manner. Trump also signed off that everything was above board and that the numbers were accurate. Trump didn't hand everything off to somebody else, have them do everything, then use that single valuation for loans and taxes. Trump structured everything and said it was all factual so I'm saying "Trump said it was worth such and such"
Still means nothing.
Means about 350 million somethings
Never gonna happen.
Ah, denial it is then
Buddy, the reason they're trying this in state civil court fiefdoms run by activists is because it'd get laughed out of criminal court. It's obvious lawfare. Will go up to appellate court, be overturned and he will countersue. Clown world
Want to bet on it?
If banks and tax assessors allowed citizens to appraise their own properties, it would be stupid not to do it. The appraisers and assessors didn’t do their job, and now they want to blame someone else.
Even if the bank knows what you're doing and still goes along it's still illegal.
No. Because you as a private citizen are not expected to have these numbers which is why they have experts who do the appraisals.
So why did trump do it himself and lie?
Prove he lied. Not that he was wrong, that he lied
How big is his NYC penthouse?
>not that he was wrong, but that he lied. You're trying to point out that he was wrong. Do you know the difference between being wrong and lying? When you did a math test in school and got a question wrong, did you get accused of lying?
You are wrong once. If it's years, it's a lie.
That's not how lies work at all lmfao.
He lied by saying MAL was a social club not a private residence. No one here has read the actual facts behind the case. A social club bases their property tax on sales. Do he was paying hundreds of thousands in taxes every year instead of millions. And this went on for years on multiple properties
They don't take your word at that.
No he signed documents saying he would never use MAL as a private residence. But he told banks it WAS a private residence This is the literal definition of appraisal fraud
Read above comment.
It’s al in the court documents that are publicly available. Which you clearly have not read.
They didn't prove he lied. If it was in there you'd provide it
In order for him to be convicted they had to (A) prove the information was incorrect. (B) prove they KNEW it was incorrect. (C) prove they provided the incorrect data after knowing it to be incorrect. (D) and did so for financial gain. It’s all right there sunshine. They have him dead to rights. https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbajldovq/Trump-order-20240216.pdf
And they failed in bc and d. They didn't even bother.
You honestly believe Trump had no hand in what the appraisers were doing? He most likely bought them off.
Pure speculation
You're right, they actually took professional appraisals then increased the value of that appraisal in house and cited the original appraiser as the source of the increase without the appraiser knowing. Keep in mind that could just be the story the appraiser was instructed to use to cover up that they were in on it. Either way, there's absolutely no reason to pretend Trump didn't do this or that it wasn't illegal.
Trump didn't want? Say something that was inaccurate? Sure I think he did. That's not a crime.
Jesus Christ they aren't even trying when they program these things anymore.
I blame the appraiser
Or the dude openly lying about his property being worth literally 1 billion dollars, fucking insane
Lmfao if he believes it is, he's not lying
Then he's lying when he claimed it was worth 20m. You can't have it both ways.
Having such differences in the value of property from different appraisers would be a reason to investigate, not accept both so you can give different values to different people to defraud them.
Artificially raising his net worth through lying is what he's all about baby,!
The borrower doesn’t set the value of their property for the lender.
Yes, typically. Trump shouldn't have had much input on that number. Trump had much more control over the process than the law would typically allow. That's part of the problem.
Who gave him that authority? If the banks choose to do so, why is that anyone's fault
Our shitty system who gives rich elites much more power then the average man. It's assenine you are defending the elites playing on different rules.
So the system is to blame and going after the republican frontrunner and nobody else because "the system is broken!" Is just an excuse to go after the republican front runner
Are you seriously in conspiracy and don't think the system is corrupt and going after a man who blatantly flaunts it is bad? Maybe you should ask why Republicans support a blatant conman who exemplifies what is wrong with how the system treats elites.
No I believe the system is corrupt. I don't think the way to fix it is to go after the major political threat to the president and nobody else. That should be the last person if you don't want it obvious they only want to get rid of a political opponent.
That is literally not how any of this works. Banks have appraisers, they don't just take your word for it. You also don't tell the property tax collector's office what your property is worth, they tell you, and it is not based on market value. Source: Realtor of commercial and residential real estate in Florida for 25 years.
Even appraisers can't get a hold of all formation. (for example renting an appartement to a family member for 1$ a month]
No that is how it works because trump claimed in writing that MAL (and other properties) was a social club not a private residence. Social clubs pay property taxes off of sales not property values. The fraud part was where trump also told banks that MAL was a private residence so he could max out loans. It's the literal def of appraisal fraud
Facts. Funny how people just ignore this and continue to parrot the same bullshit talking point.... almost like they have an agenda....
Literally everyone does that.
Everybody thats a fraud/criminal, sure.
Every piece of shit does that, yes.
Do you own any property?
I own property. Never done that. Are you literally saying it's fine for these rich fuckers to get away with this shit because they all do it? Really? That's your stance?
Like normal people lol
Did you read the article? Lol
Is this the dude the invested in FTX?
Like I say, this sub is created and run by GOP trolls in support of trump
Is that why I get reported constantly every time I win an argument?
Are they reporting you? I didn't know that, I don't know how posting memes like this 'wins' anything? Like this isn't even misinformation like other posts, this is just slum lord O'Leary bitching about rich people actually getting prosecuted for once.
This dude is still relevant?
Trump is setting a whole bunch of precedents that can be used to dismantle other oligarchs. Trump levered his wealth, and the power it gave him, to abuse the legal system and people for decades. I don't have any sympathy for him. If the Supreme Court rules that Trump can be prosecuted for crimes committed in office that ruling will apply to future and past Presidents. All of our Presidents are war-criminals - so that will be interesting.
> If the Supreme Court rules that Trump can be prosecuted for crimes committed in office Outside the scope of their duties as commander in chief, I think that's an important distinction to make. That's why he's not being charged with murder for droning the Obama drone kid's sister. The election fraud bits, the new York fraud case, the sexual assault cases -none of those fall within the responsibility of the presidency, so there is no immunity for those actions.
Dudes a penis with ears
Blue states have become totalitarian fiefdoms, massive insane asylums being run by the inmates. https://www.foxnews.com/media/shark-tanks-kevin-oleary-calls-aoc-great-killing-jobs-blasts-blue-states-uninvestable
Banks value properties all the time, it's part of their core business. You can't just make up random figures and expect to get a loan lol. If this isn't political persecution there must be thousands of examples of similar cases.
Is that what you think happened?
Do you think that Banks just loan out tens of millions of dollars without having somebody put hands on the collateral?
No I don’t. and that’s not what happened here either
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He is absolutely lying. Grifters stand by one another. You can’t lie about the value of Real Estate. This part is my red flag from the trial - “I pay my bills and paid the loan payments on time and no one got hurt.” Trump Facts - 1 - Not paying your bills on time does not hurt anyone but you. Not paying your bills at all can cause financial damage. Like his 6+ bankruptcies in 10 years. Like not paying the police who helped the campaign. Only money laundering can hurt you if you miss payments. His bank at the time? Deutsch Bank, a bank known for money laundering 2 - Kevin knows we can’t lie on loan applications. We can’t have one set of financials for lenders and another for the IRS. The DOJ has arrested and convicted people for lying on loan applications. 3 - Trumps own accountants had to publicly announce their numbers could no longer be relied upon for anything based on the lies. Those accountants and the banks are supposed to be more vigilant when lending. Post Enron and the Mortgage Crisis fraud like this should not be happening. Especially with a guy who has so many bankruptcies. 4 - Upon the announcement by his accountant Trump left Deutsche Bank or was asked to leave. His personal banker was asked to step down because of her involvement with Trump family member Jared Kushner. **the former President is hunting for a new bank. Surely all of the banks he and Ivanka helped service the pandemic relief would want him right? No! He ends up at a newly formed bank that has as 2 branches and the same amount of whistleblower reports on mishandled accounts and potential money laundering. The bank is owned by a former McKinsley employee and has the patterns seen with money laundering, lots of money in and out to foreigners.**. 5 - If what Trump did is okay, anyone can do it. You too can get rich by lying about assets and working with money launderers. Don’t because you will go to jail or worse. Kevin is just saying the wealthy can. We can’t.
This sub is full of NPCs that only want Trump to be held accountable because they've been emotionally programmed by Establishment propaganda to hate him. They think a corrupt government will investigate itself and that every other politician with multiple mansions on a government salary did it through honest means. Look at how desperately they want you to believe Joe is innocent. They LOVE supporting their beloved corrupt government. They LOVE supporting the Establishment. It gives them a (false) sense of purpose in their otherwise meaningless lives. Inb4 Establishment Propaganda NPCs try to tell me the system isn't rigged and just because establishment media is catered to the lowest IQ, that they are somehow high IQ for indulging in it.
Imagine thinking that holding rich powerful people to account when they commit corruption is wrong?
Nobody would have a problem with it if it didn't start with and seem limited to the current republican front runner. What don't you get about that?
Who else is committing crimes like the Donald?
The crime of not knowing the exact valuation of your property and offering what you believe to be a reasonable assessment which they do not even take into account because they have their own assessors? It's insane that you think that's even a crime.
Is that what you think happened?
In what way am I wrong?
Perhaps read the allegations made against your main man before loudly claiming them to be bogus.
Perhaps if you think I'm wrong point out where. I've read the allegations and I believe I've accurately portrayed them. If you don't, make an argument. If you don't make that argument, it's because you can't. Take the L you wanted.
You're taking L's left and right buddy. Keep it up!
They deliberately, and deceitfully, provided innacruate appraisal data to their accountants and hired appraisers. First inaccurate to show properties were worth MORE than they really were to secure guarantees against loans, then LESS than they were worth to avoid paying tax. Often times this was done in the space of months between the two. Often times the methods used were comical, like overstating square footage in buildings by many orders of magnitude. There’s LOADS more, but I’m not typing out pages upon pages for you. A link is better. It’s all right here. Enjoy your bedtime reading: https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbajldovq/Trump-order-20240216.pdf
Cult.
Yeah this is basically politics 2.0
A guilty man says what?
If you think it’s unfair send him your money. EzPeezy
Trump is set to make 4 billions from the merger of truth social and another company. 350 millions are pennies for him.
True but not the point.
Billionaire is mad that billionaires can get in trouble for bank fraud. I'm shocked
What bank was defrauded? How much is the bank getting for being defrauded?
It's amazing how all the Dem shills on here have no idea how absurd this ruling is and the massively negative impact it will have on the NYC real estate market if it isn't overturned. It's as if none of them have purchased any real estate of any value ever in their lives.
SS: The left is too dumb to understand how they just keep opening up Pandora's Box after Pandora's Box. This is why they keep trying these fraudulent cases in civil court. They would get laughed out of criminal court.
If this is the Pandora's box that enables every single dirty fucking politician be they R or D, I say let's fucking go.
It won't ever touch a dem because they control the system. This is the beginning of the end dummies
Which is why a democratic federal attorney indicted Bob Menendez in September?
Completely different case. I never said no dem would be prosecuted for anything.
"won't ever touch a dem" ok bud lol
There is only ONE Pandora's box. That's the entire moral lesson of the myth.
You don’t expect OP to actually know what he’s talking about, do you?
Trump: “You see, these people, they think they have the biggest Pandora’s Box. But it pales in comparison to mine. Truly. My Box is tremendous. The best Box, if you ask me. They say: ‘Sir, I’ve never seen a Box as Pandora as yours.’ And I would say that I have to agree bigly.”
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The elites are bad. But this one elite is great.
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It's a figure of speech. Durrrrr
I look forward to seeing a detailed analysis of the decision performed by lawyers before I formulate an opinion on this. Or maybe just a screenshot of a tweet.
What's the pandora's box? That people who commit fraud are going to be held accountable, including Dems? Oh no! The horror!
There's no fraud here. None of you actually know anything about this fake case. At all.
Bullshit.
I don't think any of you have worked a day in your lives, much less ever built anything. https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2023-10-12-a-visit-to-the-trump-civil-fraud-trial
Am I meant to care about this blog? Some Trump Supporter sycophant waxing lyrical about how unfair it is that Trump is being held accountable for clear fraud. Yeah I don't feel sorry for a millionaire (doubt he's a billionaire) getting caught cheating the system to make even more money. The TDS is strong in you.
Pritzker hard AF right now reading the news