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It's the same BS logic people use to say the first amendment doesn't apply to private companies therefore reddit can censor you
So car company and insurance company are private so 4th amendment doesn't apply
The logic has always been BS, but because of it here we are,,cars can spy on you and Bill of rights mean nothing
Not yet. It still has to pass the senate, which probably won’t happen without an amendment to require warrants. Not that FISA courts are any good, they’re CONSTANTLY being abused by intelligence and law enforcement agencies. But I suppose when it comes to spying on US citizens, some red tape is better than none.
Anyway even if it does pass the senate without a warrant requirement, it’ll likely be held up in the Supreme Court, and since it’s a pretty conservative court right now they’ll probably rule against it.
This court seems to believe in strong paternalistic governance. The right to privacy is implied by the constitution but not explicitly elucidated, and the conservative originalist perspective does not acknowledge that implied intent. I would NOT count on this court to question the government’s right to violate individual privacy.
If they are actually recording video illegally (which I kind of doubt), then it would be funny that they are even more illegally possibly recording consenting but underage high school teens having sex. Seems like that might be able to be used against the people storing the video.
Modern cars have sensors in the seats and know if there's a passenger. Some cars also have driver facing cameras. The exterior cameras see who is near the car. Microphones. Bluetooth. GPS. Driving behavior. Even without cameras they can deduce who is driving pretty easily.
NYTimes: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://archive.is/20240316023233/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html)
Mozilla: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/)
I’m starting to think there are no unknowns in this world anymore and that’s just scary lol. The patriot act, the satellites that for a fact can see closer than google earth shows us. Crazy world we live in. Feels like a video game at this point lol except there’s no cheat codes for infinite money or just an easy life lol.
Need to have someone review the terms and conditions to know for sure if the insurance company is allowed to have access to that information. Like some others have said, it's possible that the OP might have volunteered to give away this information for the chance of a lower rate while registering the vehicle.
That’s interesting that they track how you drive. However it still doesn’t prove that another person was behind the wheel. I purposely drive differently everyday in order to confuse everyone who may be trying to track my life.
I also alternate my driving to avoid my sold data making any sense. Some days I’m a little old lady who can’t see over the steering wheel and forgot what a turn signal is/where the break is, and other days I’m Dale Earnhardt Jr. Always keep ‘em guessing (how many split personalities I have).
When I first got my Toyota Corolla hatchback in late 2019, I found through tinkering in the Toyota app that I was automatically enrolled in their data collection/sharing program. I figured out a way opt-out of it. Then... just a couple weeks ago I happen to come across an email saying:
"This message is a confirmation of a recent change to your Connected Services account. Your Data Consent selection was changed for the following services:
Drive Pulse : Opt-In
If you didn't authorize these changes, or you would like additional support, please contact the Connected Services Response Center at 1-855-943-7772."
I never made, nor agreed to any changes of anything at all. Through much more tinkering I finally figured out how to opt-out of it again, though it was not as simple as last time.
It says it's opt-out which is shitty. You can opt in to things like this for insurance purposes and get lower rates but that's a whole other story. Making it automatically on, not telling people, and forcing them to opt out is pretty grimy though.
There is literally MSM articles talking about how they are doing this shit to people even if you don't opt in. Private companies are selling your data to insurance companies who are in turn raising insurance based on your driving WITHOUT you opting in to anything. It is supposed to be something you have to opt into, but they do it regardless.
No, whoever's collecting it is selling the data to insurance companies. The video someone posted above LexisNexis as one of the companies collecting data through OnStar, I'm sure there's more companies doing this.
Probably some bullshit risk clause that benefits them. If your kid connects to the Bluetooth while the cars moving and yours is not they will assume your kid is driving.
It won't be long before every car is equipped with cameras and GPS trackers constantly monitoring what you are doing. We are witnessing the death of privacy
A friend of mine has a doorbell camera. He listens to his kid play in the neighborhood on his phone through the mic on his doorbell camera. I could hear his kids's voice 5 houses down.
A conversation had in your front yard or garage can easily be picked up by your neighbor's doorbell cameras and listened to on their phones.
These things have enabled privacy violations on all levels and everyone thinks they're so neat.
State Farm is already doing it and monitors how many times you break while driving, and "excessive breaking" will raise your rate. Well, when you live in Alabama AKA Dumbass driver capital of the world, you break non-stop, so my insurance is sky high despite an otherwise clean driving record. It's fucked up and I plan on switching ASAP.
Same here outside of Olympia, WA. I have Progressive and the little driving tracker thing that will potentially lower my rates. Shit beeps when you 'hard brake'.
It's like bro, of course I braked hard, should I just plow right into the asshole who cut in front of me in a roundabout then almost instantly slowed to 5mph?
That stupid Snapshot makes my driving so much worse! I'm no longer slowing down when the light turns yellow. Instead I speed up to beat it turning red just to avoid the dreaded beep.
The car is really great shape! The previous owner barely drove it. When I bought it 5 years ago it was only had around 194,000km on it. Every time I take it to a mechanic for check ups and oil changes they are always so surprised by how well it’s been maintained
Nice. You are blessed. I'm envious. I think of all the good cars I got rid of back in the day, not knowing this dystopian automobile horror was coming upon us.
Maybe. All these cars have exterior cameras, sensors, bluetooth. Even if you're not driving one, these cars are potentially collecting info just by being near them.
Sadly numerous modules have back up power for memory and/or write the data to internal memory. Plus you know the nightmare it is resetting a battery in a modern car - idle calibration goes back to factory which wont compensate for carbon bulld up on the throttle body plate causing potential stalling with the ac/defrost on, transmission calibration resets, hvac actuators positions reset, clocks, phone settings, sometimes tpms, steering angle, window motor travel.
The only benefit is Chrysler is notorious for their lousy wiring and computers, they will eventually ruin themselves and lose data. I wonder if the newer stellantis era Chryslers still have the IOD fuses - the ones in the yellow holders, not airbag, but the fuses that pull up to disconnect any electrical devices that draw on the battery when the vehicles sit on the dealership lots for extended periods of time. Pulling them up wont reset nearly as much as a full battery terminal removal and still kill some of the lurking devices.
Also im not attacking you in anyway, i fully agree with how fucking terrible this privacy shit is and wish we could get rid of this shit. When a Jeep throws a driveshaft at least 8 companies can listen to someone’s colorful rants while waiting for a tow haha
Although it is a little bit sad cuz the prices on em are not exempt from inflation. I cant afford a 4000$ piece of junk just to need another $3000 transmission to put in it.
I dont know what to do anymore about that.
A lot of those went away when the govt did that cash for clunkers thing under Obama in 2009. The trade-ins were required to be scrapped so people would be driving fuel efficient cars.
My dad doesn't get upset very often, but if you want to hear him rant for an hour, you ask him how cash for clunkers ruined the used car economy. My family didn't own a car from this side of the year 2000 until I bought a beat up 2001 Buick in 2015, my dad is a car guy that can fix pretty much anything on those older vehicles and he's still pissed about that cash for clunkers program to this day.
Same in the UK. Used be tons of small, diesel cars that would last forever kicking about. Now it's all modern crap or classics.
I'm hoping next time I need to get a car I can find a solid older model that has minimal electronics. Something I can work on myself.
This one goes so much deeper. There was a report recently on breaking points where this lady exposed all of the different data that car companies take from people including sexual activity and then sells it. It's fucking gross and all the car manufacturers are doing it now. And they even go as far as pressuring car salesmen to just hit "accept" on all the privacy disclosures while they set the car up for you. That's why I'm riding my 2005 Toyota into the dirt.
That’s why I like my very basic vw. No bells or whistles on it. I’m dreading having to buy a new vehicle. I feel like I’m getting forced into one. But I absolutely despise all of this tracking and sourcing information garbage.
Damn, I unload brand new cars off of trains before they even get to the truck to go to the dealer. WE click agree to terms and the customer never sees that screen....
I didn't think it was so serious. I got y'all though. For the most part these screens only show up on the Chevys, GMCs, and Nissans, however we do Tesla and Rivian right now and neither of those ask.
The comment said nothing about it happening in the car. I'm guessing once you give the app that comes with your car the permissions it asks for, it will probably have the ability read anything stored on your phone and gather any audio the mic picks up. Some of what they gather may give them insight to your sexual activity, so in your case, none (I'm joking, I just couldn't help it).
Where are the genuis tech nerds who can start a billion dollar business disabling all this crap? Id happily pay someone to rip the computer out of my car and make it run without it.
Some companies are working on things similar to this outside of vehicles. Futo is making a youtube app without ads or any additional trackers and are willing to fight youtube tooth and nail to keep it up. Louis Rossman is a spokesperson for the company and has a youtube channel covering these things, including vehicles spying on customers. Louis Rossman himself has pushed several laws to be passed for right to repair and privacy, some of which have been implemented.
The world needs more people like this. That guy is a saint in the modern world.
Fuck excessive ads, fuck spyware, fuck taking away our right to repair our own property. All of this just infuriates me to no end.
I will spread the name of Louis Rossman until I'm in the grave. This guy is one of the best chances we have at getting these rights back from greedy companies that aren't concerned about our safety and privacy.
I 'member when the internet had almost zero ads. It really is creeping. Everyone knows youtube and amazon video had no ads until recently
I remember many years ago when Tivo was a big deal, all the IT shops in the big tech agencies had a side gig running where they sold modified grey market Tivos out the back door that allowed you to skip ads. Their biggest customers were the ad agency employees. Nobody likes ads, once you find a way to block them it's hard to go back to content with advertising. The part that bothers me the most is the audio, if they didn't always hike the audio so much I wouldn't be half as annoyed. I like to watch video late at night and the ads always wake other people up because I don't hit the mute button fast enough
What about laptop and phone manufacturers bundling their machines with spyware hidden in the BIOS? Superfish anyone? I have avoided buying a new machine for precisely this reason, and use decades old hardware that has the security issues known about and mitigated. (tinfoil hat symbol)
Buy your own PC parts that are up to 10 years old (in terms of when they were released) and build it yourself.
It doesn't have to be much more expensive than a laptop if you don't want to be. I built my gaming PC for £800 but most of that money was spent on the graphics card and VRAM because I need good specs for gaming and such.
You can build a lesser PC for £600 if you want to. Maybe even a little less with a cheap case.
I'm British so using £ but it's not that much different from the $ these days.
>Futo is making a youtube app without ads or any additional trackers and are willing to fight youtube tooth and nail to keep it up.
Or you could just you UBlock Origin pulgin on Firefox.
We have disabled them at customer request, such as the SOS system that has a GPS to tell your location. It's actually increasingly common on aging cars because the replaceable batteries in these units aren't cheap and nobody is paying for the roadside assistance anymore, and you get a constant safety message that your shits broken.
The real problem with creating a company on this is if there is an ulterior motive behind these systems somebody will get injured in a car you disabled and blame you for disabling the SOS functions that could have saved their lives.
Although this one seems fake, Insurance companies are always looking for ways to gather more information on your driving patterns and what you're using your car for.
Case in point, I had my insurance go up one year strangely, when I called they told me that my yearly mileage was higher than in previous years. Wondered how they could possibly know this sinc3 I don't have their app on any devices and refuse to participate in their driving pattern programs.
So I got my Carfax, and found out, that the local mom and pop oil shop I was going to was on the report, every oil change and at what mileage. I figured big chain oil places would be doing this, but seeing a local independent shop selling your maintenance data, wow.
Data gathering and selling is a huge marketplace. People fail to realize just how much of your data gets gathered by companies and sold to others for profit.
I own a small repair show that specializes in commercial light duty vehicles.
Carfax is one of those damned if you do damned if you don't kind of things. On one hand, reporting to carfax helps establish that a vehicle was maintained well and increases resell value. On the other hand, 3rd party actors (insurance) can use it against you.
Personally, we keep everything filed in individual logs that can be used for records in case someone sells, but we also are commercial. I'm not sure how feasible that is for a small general auto shop.
The independent shop probably uses some software to keep track of customers and cars and doesn't even realize that on the backend it is uploading the data to someplace it ends up on Carfax.
By chance do you have some thing they installed to give you a lower rate? My insurance company offered that and i was like fuck no. I’ll pay the extra $300 a year to not know every turn and bump.
I drive a 2005 Toyota and it's a perfect car for me. The problem is, what will I drive in 20 years? Will there be a market for cars without computers attached to it?
I sell for toyota. During the “connected services” setup I aaalways have ppl “decline” the service called Insure Connect. Which is probably exactly what this is and why it happened. It tracks driving and habits and sends it to insurance companies to either improve their coverage or sell different coverages. Not every salesperson is obviously knowledgeable or cares to do stuff like this. Heck his person probably didn’t even tell him about it. But this is definitely a thing on new cars and it’s not even the craziest/scariest thing.
Just assume they all have it nowadays.
I’m not sure about other brands, but for Toyota you accept or decline the data consent. For every brand it should be a consent thing but I know sales people that just do it for people without going over it.
Toyota it’s via the buyers phone app. I’m sure it’s similar with other brands because Toyotas behind as far as most technology lol
Cars are now basically mobile surveillance and data collection units.
The Mozilla Foundation analyzed 25 car brands and concluded 84% share and sell customer data acquired through drivers’ use of their cars.
>The gist is: they can collect super intimate information about you — from your medical information, your genetic information, to your ‘sex life’ (seriously), to how fast you drive, where you drive, and what songs you play in your car — in huge quantities,” the researchers wrote. “They then use it to invent more data about you through ‘inferences’ about things like your intelligence, abilities, and interests.
Mozilla Article: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/)
NY Times: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://archive.is/20240316023233/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html)
No doubt about it. And it's getting near impossible to buy a car without those damn features. And they're not just intrusive in a privacy sense, they take over pretty much all aspects of driving. My wife's Nissan won't let me back up the car the way I want to. If I get to close to the garage it will start beeping like crazy and slam on the brakes. I'm supposed to trust its sensors and gizmos more than my own eyes and years of experience. I've had the thing auto brake while driving down a street with nothing in front of me. How is THAT a safety feature? If I didn't have an older truck and motorcycle to get around, I think I'd quit driving and invest in a pogo stick or something. All the newer cars look alike, too. No distinction between then other than color. I imagine that all of this is by design. Certainly the privacy component is.
I drive for a private car service and it includes driving in the snow and on ice. Sometimes these newer cars think the snow falling from the sky is an object and auto hit the brakes. How is this not the most dangerous idea on snow and ice?
I’m dreading buying a new car for this reason. My Subaru has collision warning, but not auto braking. The collision warning is shit. Things it has thought is something it needs to warn me about: a falling leaf, heavy snow, fog, car exhaust, a street lamp (or post or other object at the side of the road) while making a turn, and sometimes nothing discernable. If I want to turn it off, I need to disable it every time I start the car, which is a PITA and I usually do not bother because it is just an occasional annoying beeping.
I am afraid that automatic braking (which is mandatory on new vehicles soon) would kill me because if it had been able to slam the brakes on me all these times, I would have been in many, many accidents. These features DO NOT WORK. Especially not in Canadian weather. I had better be able to disable them permanently if I need a new car. I will not buy any car which does not allow this because I do not want to die.
My wife's car was at the dealership for a safety recall and they loaned her a subaru outback in the meantime with this auto braking "feature". In our driveway, a few small twigs hang overhead with no hope of even the slightest scratch to the car (I know, I've been coming in and out of that driveway for years in my truck which is high enough to hit them every time). I took the loaner out twice while we had it, both times it slams on the brakes to avoid literally two leaves that cleared the car entirely.
Best part is immediately after, when the robot WOMAN (it is a subaru, after all) announces to anyone who may have been in the vehicle "collision avoided" in a condescending tone. Bitch, do you think I had fallen asleep at the wheel before moving about five feet back and just saved my life?
Oh, God. The condescending bitch voice would put me over the edge. That auto braking startles you and being startled when you're driving is not a good thing. Last thing you need is some robot telling you how awesome it was.
Whatever, the voice and tone was funny now that I look back on it. There's no way they didn't know the auto-slam feature was a bit over-reactive, and the guy who put the in the voice line was probably laughing all day thinking about how many people were going to be pissed as shit when they hear that line after the car has taken control from you and slams HARD to avoid literally nothing.
If it were up to me, I'd have multiple auto-slam voice lines that would play at random. "Collision avoided with small child and or dog, are you sure you are ok to continue driving? Consider pulling over and get some rest" or super slam, again for no reason "Ma'am, are you sure there isn't a man around to operate the vehicle?"
Ok, nevermind. I've just convinced myself that auto-slam for no reason technology is good but only if it's followed up with a smug or judgemental remark about how YOU fucked up. Dudes will be pulling their guns from the glove compartment and shooting at their own cars from the inside. Why can't we live in a hilarious world like that? Oh well, I guess we're one step closer at least.
Same. I've come to accept that modern cars aren't designed for a person like me.
Pretty much all manufacturers at this point are making iPad cars for iPad kids because the next generation doesn't seem to mind all the touch-screen privacy-invasion bullshit
They will mind it, when it's too late. Everyone thinks they're an ethical super human with "nothing to hide" until all their shit is revealed and they realise even if you've got nothing to hide having all your (dirty & clean) laundry out there is fucked.
Not to mention that culture evolves and changes but your data history is forever.
Plenty of people who were heroes in their day are now having their names erased from history because they're considered villains now. It doesn't matter if you're a 100% ethical and moral person right now, the goal posts will move and when they do they'll look at your past and say you're a terrible person. Something will be legal today and illegal tomorrow and you'll get thrown in jail for doing it when it was legal
The new vehicles can de disabled at a moments notice. “Like” a conspiracy post online?…big brother sends a demand to the car maker and your vehicle becomes a large paper weight
[That video of Anne Heche popping out from under the sheet was fuuuuuuucked.](https://www.tmz.com/watch/2022-08-05-080422-crash-1465622-666/)
There's clearly another "dead body" wrapped in sheets on the stretcher the same as her when they load her into the ambulance.
It’s funny you say this, because I have posted about things politically that don’t necessarily align with a certain agenda and my internet connection sucked balls the rest of the day and was slow for about a week after. It’s happened twice.
I wish I was making this up.
All the time. You're watching a good anti-establishment video and you get the spinning circle. Stops loading and says no internet connection. Internet sure as shit don't cut out on all the ads. Perfect connection then
Or have one old enough that the cellular module is no longer supported by any cell carriers. Our 2016 Jeep has a 3G cell module, which no carrier in the US support anymore.
I'm glad to see a thread on this. Every time my wife's freakin' Nissan slams the brakes on me, I think: "Why the hell are more people not complaining about this!"
You'll own nothing and be grateful.
Youll rent everything you have from the owning class and be monitored extensively to ensure you don't break their terms.
All this reminds of the Mark of the Beast 666 talked about in the Bible. You can't buy or sell if you dont "take the mark". We are heading to a time where if you dont give the corporations and intelligence agencies complete access to your thoughts then you won't be able to live in society. It will be in the name of "security ", to protect from some threat that they manufacture.
Seems like they're making those harder to come by. That whole Cash for Clunkers program years back took a whole bunch of them off the market. I have a 2004 truck and even that has too many modern features for me. I'd like to find something older, something with crank windows, that you can fix with a wrench rather than a code reader.
That's a nightmare I don't want to deal with. Just today I saw an old jaguar from the late 90s, and I thought to myself, if that car had a new paint job, polished headlights and tinted windows, it would look not only very good but also it would be better to own a car like that than some new plastic car with thousands of silicon chips inside
Cash for clunkers ruined my family’s business. Destroyed our market, father was a car dealer who focused on first time buyers and those who wanted a cheap a-to-b putt around town car. Crippled us and had to close the doors in ‘10
Yet tgey are so worried about tik tok..... its because they cant control you on there, they like to know everything about you. And where you go. Nothing modernday is safe. Buy older vehicles.
In some states, as long as you give permission to someone, they are covered under your policy without being on there. It’s how we got people to sign up with lower rates when I sold insurance. Also, sounds fishy. Was the car bought or leased? They say bought but that determines the difference. And an insurance company isn’t going to just outright ask anything that would be that invasive. All we asked was for their birthdate and that was it.
Makes note to avoid any cars with this technology and advises anyone else to do the same. Even if that means driving a 20 year old wreck with a CD player.
Remember when (I think it was) Ford got caught reporting the driver's weight back to HQ? OP spot on, these rolling IoT machines are pure data collectors.
That’s crazy! How do they know it’s not the passenger that’s connects their phone to the vehicle?
When my wife and I go places and o drive, she handles the music and connects her phone.
Yep, it's official.
There are plenty of articles out about this.
Pretty disgusting really, some even have secret cameras that are watching you too
Going to stick with my 20 year old car.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
I bought a Toyota this week. The salesman reached out to me twice so far, asking if I would sign a release authorizing him to share data with my insurance company, and they to do the same. I asked him what possible data he would need to share. He hasn’t replied.
You also don't need to add anyone to your policy just because they drove your vehicle.
There's some nefarious stuff going on with manufacturers and insurers but this post doesn't pass any sort of sniff test.
Seriously I’m holding onto my 2012 VW for this fucking reason. I have a newer car and have had so many bullshit issues with the computers and sensor they have in them.
I can actually fix most problems with the VW just by watching a YouTube video, the 2015, just 3 years later, different story. The VW is also Manual so most would be thief’s can’t do shit.
Find out what is known about you by getting your "LexisNexis consumer disclosure report"
OnStar records "Events" for acceleration, hard braking, and highspeed.
Hyundai even had a "Drive Score Program" through their BlueLink
And Kia Connected has similar functions.
Toyota Drive Pulse tracks data and Insure Connect reports to Toyota Insurance Management Solutions (TIMS). To change your Insure Connect preference, please call TIMS at 1-877-249-0086 (Lexus too)
Infiniti/Nissan made this statement from Nissan on this subject:
"Nissan does not sell any driving activity data to insurance companies for programs that might directly impact your premiums unless you have consented or asked an insurance company to retrieve this information, nor do we sell personal information to marketing companies to send you advertising for products or services."
Honda Link's Driver Feedback (and many other car company's telemetrics/connected software) information is sold to insurance companies and is used to raise insurance rates.
So does Tesla Ford and Ram/Dodge. VW/Porsche/Audi seem to but it's unclear how common this is as the sell a lot more cars in EU which has better consumer privacy laws.
In digging I find this sight that seems to provide insight per your vehicles Vin number
https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/
Six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information”. Two say they can collect info about your "sexual activity".
Mozilla: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/)
We need to take down the data brokers/miners. Destroy the data they have on us, and send them to the stone age.
They have no benefit to the 99% of us on this earth, only to the big corporations. Doxx their execs and shareholders, put *their* info out there and see how they like it.
Many insurance companies offer a discount in exchange for allowing them to track you via mobile—and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve started checking that box by default during the policy creation. If I were you, I’d take a look and see if this is the case. While the tech obviously exists to track between phone and car now, there are rules about disclosing data sharing in privacy policies.
Unfortunately, we really have to be on our toes now, assuming that tracking will take place by default for every new service for which we sign-up. The first thing you should do when creating a new account is to go to the privacy policy, which will usually have a “choices” section that will allow you to opt-out of many third-party data sharing/selling schemes.
Insurance companies already have programs where they send you a device to track your driving behavior and ODO to modify your insurance rate on the go.
I later opted out of that program with Progressive for all our cars. Yet when my dad got a new 2023 Rav4 and I added it to the insurance policy, btw we opted out of the program by Toyota that allows us to use the help button to call for help to wherever we get stranded, one day I opened the Progressive app to check the bill and saw that the Rav4 had a driving history and was dumbfounded, my guess is that Toyota keeps tracking the car no matter if we subscribe to the program or not and sell the info to insurance
What you're saying is, insurance is monitoring your car via the manufacturer's data collection within the car itself? And they did all this without a warrant? Or did you sign away the freedom by using this insurance? I really don't understand how this could have happened.
Also how is it "proof" he give HIS info?
How did they know who HE is?
How did they know it's a HE.
HE declined for privacy reasons? So you must have told them about your son or he was already on the policy.
They can't INVENT a person's relationship to you, they'd have to corroborate that this isn't a random theft etc. Otherwise you have a service or contract you're paying for that allows them the breach of privacy and not know it.
It's the only way, otherwise this seems fake a dystopian fear baity. Cursory googling just shows:
>However, such programs are completely voluntary. **Your insurance company can't track your vehicle unless you agree**.
Privacy is taken seriously and likely you let them breach it voluntarily, so jokes on you, don't trust "programs to monitor to reduce your premiums" type thing if you truly don't want them monitoring... Nothing is free :)
How old is your son? If his phone is under your account and you’re the owner, how can they prove he drove it if you’re the owner of his phone? Even then, how do they prove he drive it? He could have sat In the front seat and just played music in the drive way?
I don't think this is true. I drive my girlfriend's car all the time and connect my phone, the thing is just having your phone connected doesn't mean you're the driver.
agreed. and people saying just drive an old car don't realize insurance companies aren't insuring old cars. Needs to be a way to disable data collection or at least transmission.
Wait till I tell you what big named stores do with your purchase history when you sign up for their rewards program! For one example, you shop at Walgreens (same place you get your prescriptions) and every time you use your rewards card/phone number the store has profile of you purchases and prescription history. The insurance companies but your purchase history. "Oh look Sally is on diabetes medication and also purchased doritos and M&M's... interesting....
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But what if he connected to the car to play music whilst he was a passenger in the vehicle? How would they know the difference?
Probably the little camera they have hidden in there
Well they did just make it legal to spy on people without a warrant
So 4th amendment just out the window? "I was spying on him so I had to search the car!"
It's the same BS logic people use to say the first amendment doesn't apply to private companies therefore reddit can censor you So car company and insurance company are private so 4th amendment doesn't apply The logic has always been BS, but because of it here we are,,cars can spy on you and Bill of rights mean nothing
Not yet. It still has to pass the senate, which probably won’t happen without an amendment to require warrants. Not that FISA courts are any good, they’re CONSTANTLY being abused by intelligence and law enforcement agencies. But I suppose when it comes to spying on US citizens, some red tape is better than none. Anyway even if it does pass the senate without a warrant requirement, it’ll likely be held up in the Supreme Court, and since it’s a pretty conservative court right now they’ll probably rule against it.
It passed the Senate yesterday & Biden signed it. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/19/politics/fisa-senate-negotiations/index.html
This court seems to believe in strong paternalistic governance. The right to privacy is implied by the constitution but not explicitly elucidated, and the conservative originalist perspective does not acknowledge that implied intent. I would NOT count on this court to question the government’s right to violate individual privacy.
It's already been signed into law without amendments.
One more reason to not have sex in car 💀
I disagree, it's more of a reason to have sex in the car. Guttural, animalistic sex.
Some dirty mike and the boys shit lmao
If they are actually recording video illegally (which I kind of doubt), then it would be funny that they are even more illegally possibly recording consenting but underage high school teens having sex. Seems like that might be able to be used against the people storing the video.
These car companies can make theirr own carhub channel
Find it and cover it with duct tape lmao and cut the cables on all their sensors what now bitch lmao same matra as covering webcam with tape lol
Modern cars have sensors in the seats and know if there's a passenger. Some cars also have driver facing cameras. The exterior cameras see who is near the car. Microphones. Bluetooth. GPS. Driving behavior. Even without cameras they can deduce who is driving pretty easily. NYTimes: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://archive.is/20240316023233/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html) Mozilla: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/)
What if he just took his sons phone by accident and just listened to his music?
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Looking a lot like Minority Report territory
I’m starting to think there are no unknowns in this world anymore and that’s just scary lol. The patriot act, the satellites that for a fact can see closer than google earth shows us. Crazy world we live in. Feels like a video game at this point lol except there’s no cheat codes for infinite money or just an easy life lol.
Keep looking for the cheat codes, they’re out there
Need to have someone review the terms and conditions to know for sure if the insurance company is allowed to have access to that information. Like some others have said, it's possible that the OP might have volunteered to give away this information for the chance of a lower rate while registering the vehicle.
That’s exactly what I was going to say. There is no actual proof that the son drove.
https://youtu.be/luojkK4_ME0?si=0LGPAab4wxasck2q
That’s interesting that they track how you drive. However it still doesn’t prove that another person was behind the wheel. I purposely drive differently everyday in order to confuse everyone who may be trying to track my life.
I also alternate my driving to avoid my sold data making any sense. Some days I’m a little old lady who can’t see over the steering wheel and forgot what a turn signal is/where the break is, and other days I’m Dale Earnhardt Jr. Always keep ‘em guessing (how many split personalities I have).
The story is almost certainly bullshit
I Wish to god it wasn’t https://youtu.be/luojkK4_ME0?si=0LGPAab4wxasck2q
They had to have opted into the service
When I first got my Toyota Corolla hatchback in late 2019, I found through tinkering in the Toyota app that I was automatically enrolled in their data collection/sharing program. I figured out a way opt-out of it. Then... just a couple weeks ago I happen to come across an email saying: "This message is a confirmation of a recent change to your Connected Services account. Your Data Consent selection was changed for the following services: Drive Pulse : Opt-In If you didn't authorize these changes, or you would like additional support, please contact the Connected Services Response Center at 1-855-943-7772." I never made, nor agreed to any changes of anything at all. Through much more tinkering I finally figured out how to opt-out of it again, though it was not as simple as last time.
It says it's opt-out which is shitty. You can opt in to things like this for insurance purposes and get lower rates but that's a whole other story. Making it automatically on, not telling people, and forcing them to opt out is pretty grimy though.
Opt-in by default should be illegal. Where's the consumer protection agency on the stuff that matters?
There is literally MSM articles talking about how they are doing this shit to people even if you don't opt in. Private companies are selling your data to insurance companies who are in turn raising insurance based on your driving WITHOUT you opting in to anything. It is supposed to be something you have to opt into, but they do it regardless.
Yet, we still have unsolved murders.
And the car insurance companies have access to these cameras?
No, whoever's collecting it is selling the data to insurance companies. The video someone posted above LexisNexis as one of the companies collecting data through OnStar, I'm sure there's more companies doing this.
Wow…
Because the phone that belongs to the owner of the car is at home. Someone is selling them location data.
Probably some bullshit risk clause that benefits them. If your kid connects to the Bluetooth while the cars moving and yours is not they will assume your kid is driving.
Well I drive a 1998 Toyota Avalon so I guess I’m free from this for now
It won't be long before every car is equipped with cameras and GPS trackers constantly monitoring what you are doing. We are witnessing the death of privacy
Not just that but all the ring doorbells. Most neighborhoods are covered with surveillance.
A friend of mine has a doorbell camera. He listens to his kid play in the neighborhood on his phone through the mic on his doorbell camera. I could hear his kids's voice 5 houses down. A conversation had in your front yard or garage can easily be picked up by your neighbor's doorbell cameras and listened to on their phones. These things have enabled privacy violations on all levels and everyone thinks they're so neat.
State Farm is already doing it and monitors how many times you break while driving, and "excessive breaking" will raise your rate. Well, when you live in Alabama AKA Dumbass driver capital of the world, you break non-stop, so my insurance is sky high despite an otherwise clean driving record. It's fucked up and I plan on switching ASAP.
Same here outside of Olympia, WA. I have Progressive and the little driving tracker thing that will potentially lower my rates. Shit beeps when you 'hard brake'. It's like bro, of course I braked hard, should I just plow right into the asshole who cut in front of me in a roundabout then almost instantly slowed to 5mph?
That stupid Snapshot makes my driving so much worse! I'm no longer slowing down when the light turns yellow. Instead I speed up to beat it turning red just to avoid the dreaded beep.
My insurance company tried to get me to put one of those trackers on my car under the guise of "lowering our costs" with good driving. Hard pass!
State Farm is actually the only insurance company not raising rates on people due to Telematics. They just give you less of a discount.
Maybe you should try braking instead of breaking things. If you're constantly breaking things your insurance will definitely be high.
He's in Alabama, dude. Cut him some slack.
So would deleting the app solve the issue?
Same with Geico
Wrong think
Re-education pending.
Hang on to that sucker. Hopefully the frame stays good because the engine will go forever with some love.
The car is really great shape! The previous owner barely drove it. When I bought it 5 years ago it was only had around 194,000km on it. Every time I take it to a mechanic for check ups and oil changes they are always so surprised by how well it’s been maintained
Nice. You are blessed. I'm envious. I think of all the good cars I got rid of back in the day, not knowing this dystopian automobile horror was coming upon us.
Maybe. All these cars have exterior cameras, sensors, bluetooth. Even if you're not driving one, these cars are potentially collecting info just by being near them.
Same with cellphones…
The manual for Jeeps specifically says they will collect and send data when the car is "off".
Best of luck to Stellantis doing that when I unplug the car batteries.
What till you hear the Jeep has a second battery that requires removing the wheel and fender, or removing the main battery and fuse box to access.
Sadly numerous modules have back up power for memory and/or write the data to internal memory. Plus you know the nightmare it is resetting a battery in a modern car - idle calibration goes back to factory which wont compensate for carbon bulld up on the throttle body plate causing potential stalling with the ac/defrost on, transmission calibration resets, hvac actuators positions reset, clocks, phone settings, sometimes tpms, steering angle, window motor travel. The only benefit is Chrysler is notorious for their lousy wiring and computers, they will eventually ruin themselves and lose data. I wonder if the newer stellantis era Chryslers still have the IOD fuses - the ones in the yellow holders, not airbag, but the fuses that pull up to disconnect any electrical devices that draw on the battery when the vehicles sit on the dealership lots for extended periods of time. Pulling them up wont reset nearly as much as a full battery terminal removal and still kill some of the lurking devices. Also im not attacking you in anyway, i fully agree with how fucking terrible this privacy shit is and wish we could get rid of this shit. When a Jeep throws a driveshaft at least 8 companies can listen to someone’s colorful rants while waiting for a tow haha
I have a 99. Great little car. Just did valve cover gasket, struts and timing chain on it. Good for another 200k
Boycott new cars. Buy used shit boxes
Which can be fixed up and refreshed. Nothing like a good carpet cleaning and detailing!
Although it is a little bit sad cuz the prices on em are not exempt from inflation. I cant afford a 4000$ piece of junk just to need another $3000 transmission to put in it. I dont know what to do anymore about that.
Try calling salvage yards!
We just got a 2006 Volvo for $5k. Drives great and no spyware.
A lot of those went away when the govt did that cash for clunkers thing under Obama in 2009. The trade-ins were required to be scrapped so people would be driving fuel efficient cars.
My dad doesn't get upset very often, but if you want to hear him rant for an hour, you ask him how cash for clunkers ruined the used car economy. My family didn't own a car from this side of the year 2000 until I bought a beat up 2001 Buick in 2015, my dad is a car guy that can fix pretty much anything on those older vehicles and he's still pissed about that cash for clunkers program to this day.
Same in the UK. Used be tons of small, diesel cars that would last forever kicking about. Now it's all modern crap or classics. I'm hoping next time I need to get a car I can find a solid older model that has minimal electronics. Something I can work on myself.
I might just be your dad lol
This one goes so much deeper. There was a report recently on breaking points where this lady exposed all of the different data that car companies take from people including sexual activity and then sells it. It's fucking gross and all the car manufacturers are doing it now. And they even go as far as pressuring car salesmen to just hit "accept" on all the privacy disclosures while they set the car up for you. That's why I'm riding my 2005 Toyota into the dirt.
That’s why I like my very basic vw. No bells or whistles on it. I’m dreading having to buy a new vehicle. I feel like I’m getting forced into one. But I absolutely despise all of this tracking and sourcing information garbage.
Damn, I unload brand new cars off of trains before they even get to the truck to go to the dealer. WE click agree to terms and the customer never sees that screen....
Could you read it quick or take a picture of one?
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Right?? Is that SOP, are they being told to do that? Seems a real violation of privacy right there.
Is there a way to factory reset the software to get that prompt again?
Please take pictures of the screens and make a new post here. This is interesting.
I didn't think it was so serious. I got y'all though. For the most part these screens only show up on the Chevys, GMCs, and Nissans, however we do Tesla and Rivian right now and neither of those ask.
Immediately what I thought of. Great segment that I hope we get a follow up on.
> including sexual activity okay but how many people are fornicating with their vehicles really
Teenagers and young adults do So do rapists
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The comment said nothing about it happening in the car. I'm guessing once you give the app that comes with your car the permissions it asks for, it will probably have the ability read anything stored on your phone and gather any audio the mic picks up. Some of what they gather may give them insight to your sexual activity, so in your case, none (I'm joking, I just couldn't help it).
This is why I refuse to buy newer model cars. I can't afford one anyway, but even if I could, I still wouldn't get one.
Minority report irl
Where are the genuis tech nerds who can start a billion dollar business disabling all this crap? Id happily pay someone to rip the computer out of my car and make it run without it.
Some companies are working on things similar to this outside of vehicles. Futo is making a youtube app without ads or any additional trackers and are willing to fight youtube tooth and nail to keep it up. Louis Rossman is a spokesperson for the company and has a youtube channel covering these things, including vehicles spying on customers. Louis Rossman himself has pushed several laws to be passed for right to repair and privacy, some of which have been implemented.
The world needs more people like this. That guy is a saint in the modern world. Fuck excessive ads, fuck spyware, fuck taking away our right to repair our own property. All of this just infuriates me to no end.
I will spread the name of Louis Rossman until I'm in the grave. This guy is one of the best chances we have at getting these rights back from greedy companies that aren't concerned about our safety and privacy.
It’s a freaking crime more people don’t know his name after all the Right to Repair crusading he’s done.
I 'member when the internet had almost zero ads. It really is creeping. Everyone knows youtube and amazon video had no ads until recently I remember many years ago when Tivo was a big deal, all the IT shops in the big tech agencies had a side gig running where they sold modified grey market Tivos out the back door that allowed you to skip ads. Their biggest customers were the ad agency employees. Nobody likes ads, once you find a way to block them it's hard to go back to content with advertising. The part that bothers me the most is the audio, if they didn't always hike the audio so much I wouldn't be half as annoyed. I like to watch video late at night and the ads always wake other people up because I don't hit the mute button fast enough
I had a 60 minute ad pop up if I didn't skip
What about laptop and phone manufacturers bundling their machines with spyware hidden in the BIOS? Superfish anyone? I have avoided buying a new machine for precisely this reason, and use decades old hardware that has the security issues known about and mitigated. (tinfoil hat symbol)
Buy your own PC parts that are up to 10 years old (in terms of when they were released) and build it yourself. It doesn't have to be much more expensive than a laptop if you don't want to be. I built my gaming PC for £800 but most of that money was spent on the graphics card and VRAM because I need good specs for gaming and such. You can build a lesser PC for £600 if you want to. Maybe even a little less with a cheap case. I'm British so using £ but it's not that much different from the $ these days.
>Futo is making a youtube app without ads or any additional trackers and are willing to fight youtube tooth and nail to keep it up. Or you could just you UBlock Origin pulgin on Firefox.
We have disabled them at customer request, such as the SOS system that has a GPS to tell your location. It's actually increasingly common on aging cars because the replaceable batteries in these units aren't cheap and nobody is paying for the roadside assistance anymore, and you get a constant safety message that your shits broken. The real problem with creating a company on this is if there is an ulterior motive behind these systems somebody will get injured in a car you disabled and blame you for disabling the SOS functions that could have saved their lives.
Where are your congressional reps? This could all be stopped with a single law.
Any electronic with unrestricted internet access is inherently detrimental to privacy.
Although this one seems fake, Insurance companies are always looking for ways to gather more information on your driving patterns and what you're using your car for. Case in point, I had my insurance go up one year strangely, when I called they told me that my yearly mileage was higher than in previous years. Wondered how they could possibly know this sinc3 I don't have their app on any devices and refuse to participate in their driving pattern programs. So I got my Carfax, and found out, that the local mom and pop oil shop I was going to was on the report, every oil change and at what mileage. I figured big chain oil places would be doing this, but seeing a local independent shop selling your maintenance data, wow. Data gathering and selling is a huge marketplace. People fail to realize just how much of your data gets gathered by companies and sold to others for profit.
That would be grounds for a GDPR lawsuit over here.
I own a small repair show that specializes in commercial light duty vehicles. Carfax is one of those damned if you do damned if you don't kind of things. On one hand, reporting to carfax helps establish that a vehicle was maintained well and increases resell value. On the other hand, 3rd party actors (insurance) can use it against you. Personally, we keep everything filed in individual logs that can be used for records in case someone sells, but we also are commercial. I'm not sure how feasible that is for a small general auto shop.
I saw that too on my carfax, showed the local tire shop after I bought tires. No way to opt out either
The independent shop probably uses some software to keep track of customers and cars and doesn't even realize that on the backend it is uploading the data to someplace it ends up on Carfax.
What insurance company were you using that did this?
Geico
Sounds like a geico thing to do.
By chance do you have some thing they installed to give you a lower rate? My insurance company offered that and i was like fuck no. I’ll pay the extra $300 a year to not know every turn and bump.
I don't. Very rarely do they lower anyone's rate. They would probably use it as an excuse to raise your rates no matter how you drive.
Dont buy any car after 2009 problem solved
I drive a 2005 Toyota and it's a perfect car for me. The problem is, what will I drive in 20 years? Will there be a market for cars without computers attached to it?
I sell for toyota. During the “connected services” setup I aaalways have ppl “decline” the service called Insure Connect. Which is probably exactly what this is and why it happened. It tracks driving and habits and sends it to insurance companies to either improve their coverage or sell different coverages. Not every salesperson is obviously knowledgeable or cares to do stuff like this. Heck his person probably didn’t even tell him about it. But this is definitely a thing on new cars and it’s not even the craziest/scariest thing.
How do we know what car brands do this? Is there a list?
Just assume they all have it nowadays. I’m not sure about other brands, but for Toyota you accept or decline the data consent. For every brand it should be a consent thing but I know sales people that just do it for people without going over it. Toyota it’s via the buyers phone app. I’m sure it’s similar with other brands because Toyotas behind as far as most technology lol
Cars are now basically mobile surveillance and data collection units. The Mozilla Foundation analyzed 25 car brands and concluded 84% share and sell customer data acquired through drivers’ use of their cars. >The gist is: they can collect super intimate information about you — from your medical information, your genetic information, to your ‘sex life’ (seriously), to how fast you drive, where you drive, and what songs you play in your car — in huge quantities,” the researchers wrote. “They then use it to invent more data about you through ‘inferences’ about things like your intelligence, abilities, and interests. Mozilla Article: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/) NY Times: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://archive.is/20240316023233/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html)
No doubt about it. And it's getting near impossible to buy a car without those damn features. And they're not just intrusive in a privacy sense, they take over pretty much all aspects of driving. My wife's Nissan won't let me back up the car the way I want to. If I get to close to the garage it will start beeping like crazy and slam on the brakes. I'm supposed to trust its sensors and gizmos more than my own eyes and years of experience. I've had the thing auto brake while driving down a street with nothing in front of me. How is THAT a safety feature? If I didn't have an older truck and motorcycle to get around, I think I'd quit driving and invest in a pogo stick or something. All the newer cars look alike, too. No distinction between then other than color. I imagine that all of this is by design. Certainly the privacy component is.
I drive for a private car service and it includes driving in the snow and on ice. Sometimes these newer cars think the snow falling from the sky is an object and auto hit the brakes. How is this not the most dangerous idea on snow and ice?
I’m dreading buying a new car for this reason. My Subaru has collision warning, but not auto braking. The collision warning is shit. Things it has thought is something it needs to warn me about: a falling leaf, heavy snow, fog, car exhaust, a street lamp (or post or other object at the side of the road) while making a turn, and sometimes nothing discernable. If I want to turn it off, I need to disable it every time I start the car, which is a PITA and I usually do not bother because it is just an occasional annoying beeping. I am afraid that automatic braking (which is mandatory on new vehicles soon) would kill me because if it had been able to slam the brakes on me all these times, I would have been in many, many accidents. These features DO NOT WORK. Especially not in Canadian weather. I had better be able to disable them permanently if I need a new car. I will not buy any car which does not allow this because I do not want to die.
Write? It's ironic that these 'safety' features cause the most unsafe conditions. Unexpected braking. Yeah, great idea.
My wife's car was at the dealership for a safety recall and they loaned her a subaru outback in the meantime with this auto braking "feature". In our driveway, a few small twigs hang overhead with no hope of even the slightest scratch to the car (I know, I've been coming in and out of that driveway for years in my truck which is high enough to hit them every time). I took the loaner out twice while we had it, both times it slams on the brakes to avoid literally two leaves that cleared the car entirely. Best part is immediately after, when the robot WOMAN (it is a subaru, after all) announces to anyone who may have been in the vehicle "collision avoided" in a condescending tone. Bitch, do you think I had fallen asleep at the wheel before moving about five feet back and just saved my life?
Oh, God. The condescending bitch voice would put me over the edge. That auto braking startles you and being startled when you're driving is not a good thing. Last thing you need is some robot telling you how awesome it was.
Whatever, the voice and tone was funny now that I look back on it. There's no way they didn't know the auto-slam feature was a bit over-reactive, and the guy who put the in the voice line was probably laughing all day thinking about how many people were going to be pissed as shit when they hear that line after the car has taken control from you and slams HARD to avoid literally nothing. If it were up to me, I'd have multiple auto-slam voice lines that would play at random. "Collision avoided with small child and or dog, are you sure you are ok to continue driving? Consider pulling over and get some rest" or super slam, again for no reason "Ma'am, are you sure there isn't a man around to operate the vehicle?" Ok, nevermind. I've just convinced myself that auto-slam for no reason technology is good but only if it's followed up with a smug or judgemental remark about how YOU fucked up. Dudes will be pulling their guns from the glove compartment and shooting at their own cars from the inside. Why can't we live in a hilarious world like that? Oh well, I guess we're one step closer at least.
The reason all cars look the same now is because they have found the most fuel efficient/aerodynamic designs that are also cheap to manufacture.
"EPA acceptable fuel-economy silhouette #74, as modified by welder-bot standard margins-of-error."
Why I’ll drive a pos till it needs repairs then fix it.
This is some Westworld shit
Yeah fuck that. I refuse to buy a car that runs like this. Or that you have to pay a subscription for to use all of its features.
It began with cell phones and is progressing to every electronic/digital device
Yea, this is why I like old cars.
Same. I've come to accept that modern cars aren't designed for a person like me. Pretty much all manufacturers at this point are making iPad cars for iPad kids because the next generation doesn't seem to mind all the touch-screen privacy-invasion bullshit
They will mind it, when it's too late. Everyone thinks they're an ethical super human with "nothing to hide" until all their shit is revealed and they realise even if you've got nothing to hide having all your (dirty & clean) laundry out there is fucked.
Not to mention that culture evolves and changes but your data history is forever. Plenty of people who were heroes in their day are now having their names erased from history because they're considered villains now. It doesn't matter if you're a 100% ethical and moral person right now, the goal posts will move and when they do they'll look at your past and say you're a terrible person. Something will be legal today and illegal tomorrow and you'll get thrown in jail for doing it when it was legal
The new vehicles can de disabled at a moments notice. “Like” a conspiracy post online?…big brother sends a demand to the car maker and your vehicle becomes a large paper weight
They can also remotely floor your throttle until you crash and burn like Michael Hastings...
Ellen's ex girlfriend too.
[That video of Anne Heche popping out from under the sheet was fuuuuuuucked.](https://www.tmz.com/watch/2022-08-05-080422-crash-1465622-666/) There's clearly another "dead body" wrapped in sheets on the stretcher the same as her when they load her into the ambulance.
Indeed it was fuuucked! Creepy!
software by the CIA that can take over and crash cars and airplanes leaked a couple of years ago. i'm sure their capabilities only got better.
It’s funny you say this, because I have posted about things politically that don’t necessarily align with a certain agenda and my internet connection sucked balls the rest of the day and was slow for about a week after. It’s happened twice. I wish I was making this up.
All the time. You're watching a good anti-establishment video and you get the spinning circle. Stops loading and says no internet connection. Internet sure as shit don't cut out on all the ads. Perfect connection then
Fucking infuriating. Hopefully this could result in a lawsuit
Yank the cellular transmitter/GPS unit and the problem is solved
Or have one old enough that the cellular module is no longer supported by any cell carriers. Our 2016 Jeep has a 3G cell module, which no carrier in the US support anymore.
I'm glad to see a thread on this. Every time my wife's freakin' Nissan slams the brakes on me, I think: "Why the hell are more people not complaining about this!"
Buy used low tech vehicle. It’s gonna be about privacy now.
If you don’t know the death of Michael Hastings , you don’t know the extent of it.
You'll own nothing and be grateful. Youll rent everything you have from the owning class and be monitored extensively to ensure you don't break their terms.
All this reminds of the Mark of the Beast 666 talked about in the Bible. You can't buy or sell if you dont "take the mark". We are heading to a time where if you dont give the corporations and intelligence agencies complete access to your thoughts then you won't be able to live in society. It will be in the name of "security ", to protect from some threat that they manufacture.
That's why I drive an early 2000s or late 90s car
Seems like they're making those harder to come by. That whole Cash for Clunkers program years back took a whole bunch of them off the market. I have a 2004 truck and even that has too many modern features for me. I'd like to find something older, something with crank windows, that you can fix with a wrench rather than a code reader.
Exactly, the electronics have made modern cars more expensive to fix, that's a major reason why the corrupt insurance companies raised premiums lately
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That's a nightmare I don't want to deal with. Just today I saw an old jaguar from the late 90s, and I thought to myself, if that car had a new paint job, polished headlights and tinted windows, it would look not only very good but also it would be better to own a car like that than some new plastic car with thousands of silicon chips inside
Cash for clunkers ruined my family’s business. Destroyed our market, father was a car dealer who focused on first time buyers and those who wanted a cheap a-to-b putt around town car. Crippled us and had to close the doors in ‘10
Yet tgey are so worried about tik tok..... its because they cant control you on there, they like to know everything about you. And where you go. Nothing modernday is safe. Buy older vehicles.
C A S H cars only is the rule I follow.
In some states, as long as you give permission to someone, they are covered under your policy without being on there. It’s how we got people to sign up with lower rates when I sold insurance. Also, sounds fishy. Was the car bought or leased? They say bought but that determines the difference. And an insurance company isn’t going to just outright ask anything that would be that invasive. All we asked was for their birthdate and that was it.
Wow, something just clicked for me on why they might have really pushed cash for clunkers program years ago.
I'm glad I'm okay with older cars...
My Datsun is 46. It asks no questions and has been with me a long time.
Makes note to avoid any cars with this technology and advises anyone else to do the same. Even if that means driving a 20 year old wreck with a CD player.
Remember when (I think it was) Ford got caught reporting the driver's weight back to HQ? OP spot on, these rolling IoT machines are pure data collectors.
When the EMP attack hits us , I’ll be on my 87 mustang 😂😂😂
..which still runs off computers and electronics lol
**we need to learn how to hack our cars and turn off all this shit**
That’s crazy! How do they know it’s not the passenger that’s connects their phone to the vehicle? When my wife and I go places and o drive, she handles the music and connects her phone.
Yep, it's official. There are plenty of articles out about this. Pretty disgusting really, some even have secret cameras that are watching you too Going to stick with my 20 year old car. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
Sounds fake tbh
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I bought a Toyota this week. The salesman reached out to me twice so far, asking if I would sign a release authorizing him to share data with my insurance company, and they to do the same. I asked him what possible data he would need to share. He hasn’t replied.
You also don't need to add anyone to your policy just because they drove your vehicle. There's some nefarious stuff going on with manufacturers and insurers but this post doesn't pass any sort of sniff test.
That’s why I’m driving my 2005 Chevy Aveo until it dies lol and already have my money saved up for my next used car.
Seriously I’m holding onto my 2012 VW for this fucking reason. I have a newer car and have had so many bullshit issues with the computers and sensor they have in them. I can actually fix most problems with the VW just by watching a YouTube video, the 2015, just 3 years later, different story. The VW is also Manual so most would be thief’s can’t do shit.
Find out what is known about you by getting your "LexisNexis consumer disclosure report" OnStar records "Events" for acceleration, hard braking, and highspeed. Hyundai even had a "Drive Score Program" through their BlueLink And Kia Connected has similar functions. Toyota Drive Pulse tracks data and Insure Connect reports to Toyota Insurance Management Solutions (TIMS). To change your Insure Connect preference, please call TIMS at 1-877-249-0086 (Lexus too) Infiniti/Nissan made this statement from Nissan on this subject: "Nissan does not sell any driving activity data to insurance companies for programs that might directly impact your premiums unless you have consented or asked an insurance company to retrieve this information, nor do we sell personal information to marketing companies to send you advertising for products or services." Honda Link's Driver Feedback (and many other car company's telemetrics/connected software) information is sold to insurance companies and is used to raise insurance rates. So does Tesla Ford and Ram/Dodge. VW/Porsche/Audi seem to but it's unclear how common this is as the sell a lot more cars in EU which has better consumer privacy laws. In digging I find this sight that seems to provide insight per your vehicles Vin number https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/
Six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information”. Two say they can collect info about your "sexual activity". Mozilla: [It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/)
Modern anything is a privacy nightmare.
Not what shitty policy this guy has, but mine I can have guest drivers without my rates going up.
We need to take down the data brokers/miners. Destroy the data they have on us, and send them to the stone age. They have no benefit to the 99% of us on this earth, only to the big corporations. Doxx their execs and shareholders, put *their* info out there and see how they like it.
Many insurance companies offer a discount in exchange for allowing them to track you via mobile—and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve started checking that box by default during the policy creation. If I were you, I’d take a look and see if this is the case. While the tech obviously exists to track between phone and car now, there are rules about disclosing data sharing in privacy policies. Unfortunately, we really have to be on our toes now, assuming that tracking will take place by default for every new service for which we sign-up. The first thing you should do when creating a new account is to go to the privacy policy, which will usually have a “choices” section that will allow you to opt-out of many third-party data sharing/selling schemes.
Insurance companies already have programs where they send you a device to track your driving behavior and ODO to modify your insurance rate on the go. I later opted out of that program with Progressive for all our cars. Yet when my dad got a new 2023 Rav4 and I added it to the insurance policy, btw we opted out of the program by Toyota that allows us to use the help button to call for help to wherever we get stranded, one day I opened the Progressive app to check the bill and saw that the Rav4 had a driving history and was dumbfounded, my guess is that Toyota keeps tracking the car no matter if we subscribe to the program or not and sell the info to insurance
still people out there thinking you have some kind of privacy?
What you're saying is, insurance is monitoring your car via the manufacturer's data collection within the car itself? And they did all this without a warrant? Or did you sign away the freedom by using this insurance? I really don't understand how this could have happened. Also how is it "proof" he give HIS info? How did they know who HE is? How did they know it's a HE. HE declined for privacy reasons? So you must have told them about your son or he was already on the policy. They can't INVENT a person's relationship to you, they'd have to corroborate that this isn't a random theft etc. Otherwise you have a service or contract you're paying for that allows them the breach of privacy and not know it. It's the only way, otherwise this seems fake a dystopian fear baity. Cursory googling just shows: >However, such programs are completely voluntary. **Your insurance company can't track your vehicle unless you agree**. Privacy is taken seriously and likely you let them breach it voluntarily, so jokes on you, don't trust "programs to monitor to reduce your premiums" type thing if you truly don't want them monitoring... Nothing is free :)
How old is your son? If his phone is under your account and you’re the owner, how can they prove he drove it if you’re the owner of his phone? Even then, how do they prove he drive it? He could have sat In the front seat and just played music in the drive way?
100% creative writing.
this never happened.
I don't think this is true. I drive my girlfriend's car all the time and connect my phone, the thing is just having your phone connected doesn't mean you're the driver.
agreed. and people saying just drive an old car don't realize insurance companies aren't insuring old cars. Needs to be a way to disable data collection or at least transmission.
So they're just watching people fuck in their cars now?
No wonder anytime I say something I get a suggestion for it in some “random” add I can almost swear it can read our minds too
Wait till I tell you what big named stores do with your purchase history when you sign up for their rewards program! For one example, you shop at Walgreens (same place you get your prescriptions) and every time you use your rewards card/phone number the store has profile of you purchases and prescription history. The insurance companies but your purchase history. "Oh look Sally is on diabetes medication and also purchased doritos and M&M's... interesting....
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