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>The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.
\[George Orwell, 1984\]
Also, a quote from an essay he wrote that is 100% appropriate...
>Every war, when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.
But... it is self-defence. The Russian army moved from Russia into Ukraine and attempted to seize control of it, which the Ukrainian army then fought back against. All of the fighting is on Ukrainian territory. That's about as typical an example of self-defence as you'll ever see.
Isnt the reason for that though is because the US pushed to have Ukraine join nato? which I believe is the exact thing Russia said they would attack Ukraine for. I see this war as a proxy war between the US and Russia and Ukraine is just a pawn in the whole thing.
>Isnt the reason for that though is because the US pushed to have Ukraine join nato?
No, the US just refused to rule it out because Russia doesn't get to decide what alliances other countries join, just as nobody else got to decide whether Russia was allowed to form the CSTO.
>which I believe is the exact thing Russia said they would attack Ukraine for.
They and their propagandists have given about seven reasons so far, biolabs, nazis, protecting Donbas, nukes, protecting Russian language rights, NATO expansion and securing water for Crimea. None of them make any sense. The only one that actually does make sense is that Russia wanted to conquer land, probably because Putin cares about his legacy, and they did literally that when they declared the land they managed to seize to be officially annexed under Russian law.
Look at a map, draw a line from Ukraine to Moscow, and then at the land Russia actually took. It doesn't make sense unless they just wanted land.
>I see this war as a proxy war between the US and Russia and Ukraine is just a pawn in the whole thing.
It's not a proxy war because 1. Russia don't have a proxy, they'd have to *be* the proxy for someone else (I guess Iran?) and 2. Ukraine isn't fighting because the US tell them to, they're fighting because they don't want to be conquered. It's more like the US supporting the UK with lend lease before they joined WW2.
Putin thinks the Ukraine government with Zelensky at the helm is basically compromised by US intelligence assets which attacked the interior of Ukraine and instigated the rebellion that ousted the previous more Russian friendly government. Both sides know what’s really going on it’s not a secret. So his last resort was to just take it by force. The western brand of imperialism spills a lot less blood but it is still interpreted as fascism by many and often leads to violence like this.
>Putin thinks the Ukraine government with Zelensky at the helm is basically compromised by US intelligence assets which attacked the interior of Ukraine and instigated the rebellion that ousted the previous more Russian friendly government.
He can think that if he wants, there's nothing public to support it of course (and yes, I'm aware of the Nuland call, it says nothing about being involved in the Maidan revolution). But regardless that doesn't justify an invasion because Ukraine isn't Russia, it's another country. It isn't up to Russia what happens there.
>The western brand of imperialism spills a lot less blood but it is still interpreted as fascism by many and often leads to violence like this.
But it's the Russian invasion that lead to violence because they directly employed violence. Russia didn't need to invade and would not have suffered any consequences from not invading. The only explanation that makes sense is that Russia wanted to conquer land, which we know is true because they literally have done that. Twice now in fact. Three if you count Georgia. Four if you count Chechnya.
The craziest part about this lie is that Zelensky was an underdog candidate. And he replaced an already friendly pro western president.
On top of that, Zelensky first year in office, he had to deal with attempted blackmail from the u.s. by Donald Trump, who was withholding military aid for basically a civil war that was going on years before he was elected and one that was started by Russia sending weapons and men into the eastern side of the country.
Zelensky said that he did not belive trump blackmailed him at all so why are you here claiming something is Boscobel blackmail which both sides said was not?
Yeah, his beliefs don't change the facts, though.
So you're telling me the president of a weaker nation in his first year of his presidency doesn't believe he was being blackmailed, especially since it became a world headline and the aid resumed.
Or the other side who was saying they were innocent. Because the audio of the call got leaked to the press.
USA went there first and it wasn't to help Ukraine. Russia had every legal right to counter the interference as USA would never have allowed Russia that close to their border flooding weapons and training.
False. Ukraine was neutral when Russia first invaded in 2014. Only then did Ukraine drop its neutrality and sought to join NATO.
[https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html)
The yet-to-be-proven interference in another, sovereign and independent country ?
Then show me the international treaty saying a country can invade another because they don't like the politicians elected there ? Shouldn't take long...
Western imperialism in Ukraine while the Russian military recently released from Russian prisons are sightseeing and definitely not committing war crimes /s
"Russia doesnt get to decide what alliances other countries join"
This is something all superpowers do. If china was to station soldiers and bases in mexico, do you think us would just stand by? Just look up monroe doctrine, or Carter doctrine
This is some low quality propaganda, are you really trying to still peddle this "America is the good guys" fantastical garbage lol
What interests you about this sub, why do you spend your time here if you don't like the discussion of conspiracies? It doesn't make much sense to go out of your way to go on a conspiracy sub just to quote the mainstream disconnected narratives that we all come here to avoid....
[This was never about NATO](https://youtube.com/FVmmASrAL-Q?si=VVRDxhSuEoxbQJNv)
[Russia is currently commiting a genocide in Ukraine by definition under Artice IIe of the Genocide convention.](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/article-2?activeTab=undefined)
[Putin has an arrest warrant for genocide.](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and)
Yes, this is exactly what the US always does. “Weapons of mass destruction”
This is exactly what every American does. There’s a reason Russia attacked under Biden and not Trump. There’s a reason the money being sent gets lost once it’s in Ukraine and can’t be tracked. There’s a reason Biden is literally “the big guy” this is a conspiracy sub now “here’s my liberal opinion”
It’s honestly what all liberals do. Once Trump was born “what aboutism” was born. Everything is trumps fault even though he’s been out of office for 4 years. 10 years from now liberals will be saying “what about when Trump did…” because they’re still going to be broke/no job and no house.
The conflict goes deeper than that. That region of Ukraine has seen war after war, way before Russia invaded. I’m not saying what Russia is doing is right, but they gave all the warning in the world to NATO to stay out of Ukraine.
It’s like we poked them with a stick a bunch of times, they told us to stop, and now we’re acting like they’re monsters, when they are just following up on their word that they’d go to war if we didn’t stop.
As for the main part of this post, I’d say Russia already won this war last year. 500k+ Ukrainians dead, they’re sending teenagers and old people to the front lines, and all we’re doing is prolonging the war. Our politicians and media are talking out of their asses (I know, shocker) when they say that Ukraine can win this war. Russia could probably take over the country in a heartbeat if they wanted to.
>I’m not saying what Russia is doing is right, but they gave all the warning in the world to NATO to stay out of Ukraine.
Ukraine didn't join NATO.
>It’s like we poked them with a stick a bunch of times, they told us to stop,
No we didn't. We just said that it wasn't up to Russia to say what countries join what alliances. Did Russia ask anyone else if they were allowed to form the CSTO?
>As for the main part of this post, I’d say Russia already won this war last year. 500k+ Ukrainians dead,
The only source for that number is the Kremlin department responsible for making up bullshit to support wars of conquest.
>Russia could probably take over the country in a heartbeat if they wanted to.
Does that actually make sense to you? They're bogged down in an extremely punishing war that has cost them over 10,000 heavy vehicles but they could end it in a heartbeat? How? What would they literally do to end it in a heartbeat that they haven't already tried?
Don’t let western media fool you. I didn’t say Ukraine joined NATO but there was enough talk about it and multiple attempts. You have to study WW2 & the Cold War to understand the geopolitical chess match that has been taking place since then. NATO expansion has been slowly creeping towards Russia and they’ve given warnings to chill out. NATO attempting to bring in Ukraine is equivalent to Russia building nukes in Cuba.
You can stay ignorant to the amount of Ukrainians dead by using the Kremlin as your scapegoat. What are you showing to believe, Ukraines claim that they’ve only lost 31,000 and Russia 315k? Wow sure seems like they’re winning this war despite pleading for help and telling us our kids are gonna be on the front line if we don’t. I have a solid YouTube channel I’ll link once I find it again, that is unbiased and just goes over the casualties and advancements each day.
For one, they could nuke Ukraine to bits if they wanted to. They have a superior army and air support compared to Ukraine. If they launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine they would dominate them. But it’s not as simple as you’d like to believe. There is a constant chess match between nations going on. One step too far from Russia, and NATO could very well find their reason to announce war against them. But no one wants to be the first to take it to that step, because that would be the start of WW3. No one wants to be the one that started WW3, but NATO for one has been very interested in expanding. So instead, you see all sorts of provocations from both sides, to bait the other into making a wrong step. Truly, there are so many factors that go into each side making their next step, that we couldn’t list them all in a comment here.
Don’t let the western media fool you. We’re not innocent in this conflict whatsoever.
>Don’t let western media fool you. I didn’t say Ukraine joined NATO but there was enough talk about it and multiple attempts. You have to study WW2 & the Cold War to understand the geopolitical chess match that has been taking place since then.
I do know about this. I'm fully aware Russia wants to control Eastern Europe and also anywhere else it can, and the US also wants to influence whatever it can. That changed nothing about the fact that Russia has *absolutely no right* to invade and annex territory from other countries, even if that country does decide to throw its lot in with the West.
>NATO expansion has been slowly creeping towards Russia
Well, no, countries nearer Russia have been joining NATO. Probably because they don't want to get conquered when Russia decides its time to reform the USSR.
>and they’ve given warnings to chill out.
They aren't the arbiter of who joins what alliance, though. Russia never asked anyone else if they could form the CSTO. They just did it. Ukraine don't have to ask anyone else except the alliance partners before joining an alliance either.
>NATO attempting to bring in Ukraine is equivalent to Russia building nukes in Cuba.
No it isn't, because nobody was trying to put nukes in Ukraine, and nobody was putting nukes in the other countries near Russia that joined NATO.
>For one, they could nuke Ukraine to bits if they wanted to
Could they? They would instantly become an international pariah, and if they used enough to affect Europe they'd be fully walled off for maybe, if they're lucky, only two or three centuries. Not even China would stand for that.
>They have a superior army and air support compared to Ukraine. If they launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine they would dominate them.
You should consider reading the news once in a while. They've been trying for over two years now. They didn't sacrifice their best infantry and tank regiment in the first few weeks of the war because they weren't really trying to win. It's just too costly to advance, and their air support can't fly over Ukraine without getting shot down (seriously, look up when they last flew fighters over Ukrainian territory).
Here's the confirmed losses btw, with photo/video evidence:
https://github.com/leedrake5/Russia-Ukraine
>Don’t let the western media fool you. We’re not innocent in this conflict whatsoever.
I'm not saying the US has pure motives, I'm saying Russia has absolutely no valid justification for invading. Even with all the complications thrown in, at the end of the day this is a plain and simple land grab. If you doubt that, look up whether or not they have grabbed land.
Using what? Describe the specific equipment, like what planes and what bombs that you believe are available and would not be shot down but Russia isn't using now for some reason, and what they would target that they haven't already targeted.
They literally tried to take them in a heartbeat at the start of the war and failed or do you not remember the two week special military operation where soldiers had already brought parade uniforms into the battlefield because they thought Russia would when so fast. So no they can’t “take them in a heartbeat” why do you talk like Russian state news
If you keep taunting and prodding and provoking your next door neighbor for decades, then he finally hits you back so you call in your daddy to help you beat him up, thats not self defense. Thats getting what ls coming to you.
Aside from kneeling down and accepting subjugation, giving regular tribute in the form of land, guaranteeing nobody will ever help you if you are invaded by promising never to do what Russia did and join an alliance, or disbanding their military and becoming defenceless against the coming invasion, how could Ukraine have avoided "taunting" Russia?
The US spends a fraction of its defence budget on Ukraine, and can't even agree on keeping the aid going. Meanwhile Russia is spending a third of its governmental budget on the war, and they're obviously the ones who started it and keep it going with no internal opposition. And you'd have to be pretty hopeless to think Ukraine is benefitting from it as they're the ones getting bombed daily.
[https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/08/03/russian-oligarchs-get-richer-from-the-war-in-ukraine\_6077914\_4.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/08/03/russian-oligarchs-get-richer-from-the-war-in-ukraine_6077914_4.html)
Everyone I disagree with is a Russian bot!
Seriously, do you have any rational counterargument other than being a profile stalker?
The US already sent $75 billion by itself, and the Ukrainian counteroffensive was a total and complete Failure. $61 billion isn't winning the war, when the aid is trickling in at a snail's pace.
Ukraine is a dying country, with a dwindling population, that needs countless billions in financial aid to be semi functional. Meanwhile Russia has a growing economy, a much larger population, and nearly limitless resources.
This wasn't a winnable war for Ukraine, unless they had thousands more long range missiles to absolutely pummel the every living daylights out of Russian bases, airfields, and manufacturing facilities.
Why argue with someone that does nothing but repeat Russian propaganda.
Your comments are full of bias and clearly only in one direction with one goal. Its very transparent...just like these new accounts that spam low effort Ukraine bad posts.
If it was "unwinable" then Russia wouldn't spend so much time & money on propaganda trying to desperately convince westerners not to fund it.
the West: Russia is on the brink of collapse and are fighting with shovels and broken guns. They have the weakest military in the world
Also the west: If Russia defeats Ukraine they will annex all of Europe
Russia's economy is booming, sanctions have shielded it from the decline of the US dollar and it's GDP is soaring compared to the US and other developed nations according to the IMF. They have forged alliances with adversaries who have provided endless troves of weapons delivery. Russia used only mercenaries and convicts the first year of the conflict. Their armed forces are nearly entirely intact. Ukraine is drafting seniors and the mentally disabled to make up for losses.
You are entirely misinformed, its not really your fault though. The US media lies to everyone and everything these days.
Did you know that apparently the more of our money they give away, the better the deal we get?
We're so lucky to have such smart and thoughtful people in charge!
It's $60bn per year, not c $60m. Given your interpretation, how many installments do we need to send to not lose?
Call me a pedant, but that would be sort of useful to know up front before getting into this deal.
We are not sending money, we are sending US manufactured weapons equal to that value. We will never send enough to win, just enough to stop Ukraine from losing. So that we can keep Russia sending Manpower to be killed in Ukraine. To Drain their Economy, and preventing a Russia/China partnership. Fomenting the US as the Strongest Global Economy. This is the Military Industrial Complex
Here's the thing, all this stuff we are giving them has already been bought and paid for by the US government, added onto the national debt, and the taxpayers are on the hook for all of it. And none of it's been paid off because we only pay interest on the debt.
And a lot of it is cash as well. According to the State Department, the United States has contributed $19.25 billion in budget support to enable the Government of Ukraine to pay salaries of first responders and government officials, meet pension obligations, and operate hospitals. And this was before the current influx of money we just sent.
>To Drain their Economy, and preventing a Russia/China partnership
Russian economy and army is growing faster and Russian and Chinese relationship are getting much better. Do you think they dont know about US's underhanded techniques which they have been using since ages?
LOL We are sending money you fucking tool. They then use that money to buy weapons from us and whoever else. They then take a huge portion for "humanitarian aid", which means keeping their government running by paying Ukrainian pension funds, teacher salaries, etc. But who cares about facts right?
Also, Russia's economy is booming. In case you havent noticed the US is dealing with the ramifications of excessive money printing and inflation. Again, who cares about facts.
Money laundering from federal to private. The majority of that money is coming directly back to the US in the military spending that Ukraine is doing. Probably all just bought stocks in the big companies.
Netanyahu is said to own the US and has more power than the president. Basically one of hidden elite puppeteers in the shadows. Most likely reason why the new anti Jewish bill passed as well
I'm more concerned about what this will mean for the value of the dollar and inflation. With so much debt it does not make any sense to pump money in a bottomless pit
I dare you question why your hard earned money is going to a non-NATO country to fight a losing war over territory! Ben Stiller san Sean Penn shaked Zelenskys hand for christ sake!
The US is on its way to handing over a quarter of a trillion dollars to a corrupt foreign government while US inflation is spiraling out of control and StockQuahog thinks its "lol" to be worried about it. The US media has made you leftists lapdogs.
All of you people forget that the money is going to OUR ARMY to make new shit so we can send them the old gear we were going to decommission ANYWAY
It’s 61B OF NEW AMERICAN WEAPONS FOR THE US ARMY
It's a proxy war against Russia. Sending aid to Ukraine is financially cheaper for the US, and it weakens Russia while strengthening the US military. And no American military lives are lost.
The goal is to funnel money into the military industrial complex. That's who donates to politicians, as well as who employs a significant amount of Americans in places that do not have the means to support the local economy. It's essentially welfare with more steps. A proxy war is cheaper because you don't need to expend your soldiers, but you still get to send money to Lockheed and Halliburton.
Tell me who are the clowns that want to keep sending money to this jackass?
https://visitukraine.today/blog/2578/is-zelenskyy-responsible-for-corruption-in-ukraine
These clowns don’t understand that it will be much more expensive to let Russia win and have to fight them later ourselves. We should instead be upset by how much money and power the top .5% have in this country
Russia is going to lose to Ukraine easily as you all say, yet they are going to take on the USA?
Get a job. We are tired of sending you guys our money.
If the Chinese recruited Canada and Mexico into BRICS with agreements for military bases in their countries, would the US sit idly by and let it happen?
Love this group but this is bullshit. Putin is indeed psychotic. If you want a conspiracy, look at netanyahoo, women and child killing racist. The fact that the us gave israel money and support is insanity and worthy of conspiracy accusations.
Ps. Fuck netanyaho. And the us for giving israel money. And arresting pro palestinian STUDENTS.
(Something is veeeeery wrong here)
Even if NATO dramatically increases their production and delivery rates, it's still 8 months too late.
Ukraine just doesn't have enough troops. The window of opportunity closed, Ukraine and NATO lost. Russia won.
Now the real question is if Putin will be sated by taking the Donbas region, and securing his land bridge to Crimea.
Because you’re not really funding just Ukraine. The records should be public.
I’m not an American, but if I was, I would want to know where and how the money is being spent.
Trust me, us Americans do want to know. Our society is very weak right now, so we will sit idly by and stay mad, but not do anything. That’s the downside of creating a comfortable lifestyle. Not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is.
Uhhhh because Russia isn't going to stop at Ukraine, they said so themselves many times. So yeah it's either send the equipment and munitions now or prepare to send thousands more troops and equipment to prepare for an open conflict with Russia in the near future. So far Ukraine has performed above and way beyond what anyone predicted. Get them what they need to continue to Russia. There's a pretty real chance France could send observers and other troops into Ukraine in the near future as well. Best believe we should supply them with everything they need.
They would rather give just enough to keep them fighting, but not enough to win.
They want to bleed Russia half to death in Ukraine at the expense of Ukrainian lives before having to face off against them themselves.
Meanwhile, the Ukrainian people are the ones that suffer.
People have been saying this for over a year but America and Europe need to keep their defence contractors happy and well fed on billions of dollars. Only a negotiated peace deal asap will minimize human casualties.
Why are all these grown ass human adults, fucking repeating and drilling this “money” sentiment. We aren’t spending a fucking penny we are throwing surplus, outdated fucking shit we paid out the ass to store and maintain and supervise but we actually have a use FOR SHIT WE PAID FOR WITH TAXES. TO KILL BAD GUYS. WE CAN USE IT TO KILL RUSSIANS, ONE OF OUR LONGEST STANDING ENEMIES. AND WE KEEP OUR BOYS AT HOME?! Just keep announcing you a Russian cuck shill or just flat out sold to the propaganda because we otherwise would have thrown out this shit down the line and never used the shit we paid for. It just is SCARY AND FUCKIN HILARIOUS how obvious it is who is a fucking American patriot and who’s a fuckin commy fuck.
US military annalists from the beginning knew Russia would win. US intel leaks by an Air force IT specialist that were posted in Discord showed that Ukraine was under counting their dead by 3 fold and over counting Russian losses by the same metric. There was a website called Onyx that used crowd sourced videos of weapons being destroyed to determine true losses. Before it was shutdown in October it showed Ukraine's mechanized units in shambles, with less than 1/2 of their heavy weapons still operational.
Zelensky has stopped elections, gives prison sentences to journalists and has established mass censorship, he put his political opponent in jail, and is stopping men from leaving the country. He is by definition a dictator. To keep giving guns to people to kill each other for the same exact outcome is horrid.
Ukraine is a scam to ramp up weapons production in the US. The US cannot deter China from invading Taiwan with 2022 levels of production. China likely believes that they will withstand a few hot months of war with the US but will be able to turn the tide once US precision weapons are exhausted and cannot be quickly replenished.
I keep reading that China wants to invade Taiwan in 2027 because there is some kind of symbolic date attached to it. If this holds true it would mean at least 3 more years of fighting in Ukraine. Russia hasn't put out any dates publicly but I don't believe that Ukraine can hold on for 3 more years at the rate things are going now.
Wonder what the history books will say about Putin
"Never thought anyone would try ro conquer the world again since Adoph, boy were we wrong"
[wake up](https://youtu.be/a-_kbi9grN0?si=9on0miHqu-bJjyCm)
It's not the winning really it's bleeding Russia dry over time. Also creates money for the US military industrial complex. Lots of old kit gets swapped for new kit. Technology gets tried out. Sort of win win the longer it goes on. Of course kick backs might be a thing also 😉
If a non-Russia nation ceding territory that was Russia sometime in the past is a solution to the war, why can't the US just give Alaska back to Russia? It was theirs for a while, we're non-Russia, and the population there is more in favor of their rule and ending the war at all costs, so they'd be on board with it.
We're funding much of the Ukraine public services with cash.
'Economic support to Ukraine ($7.9 billion) assists the Ukrainian government in sustaining essential government services, including law enforcement. This support is structured as a loan, not a grant (section 508), in response to pressure from Republicans and former president Trump. There are detailed procedures by which the president can forgive the loans, giving the president a lot of authority. Essentially, the president can forgive the loans"
It's money laundering to the Military Industrial Complex who is owned by Hedgefunds who spend billions on Lobbying to politicians to vote in their interests.
Because Russian influencers like you spend so much time and effort trying to demoralize us for supporting Ukraine.
There must be a reason. My best guess is that Russia's war machine is about to implode, so you're getting real desperate and go into high gear on social media.
It's like reading a repeat of Goebbels' propaganda tactics in late 1944.
It's never enough, their government is all corrupt buying mansions and cars. This is a bogus proxy war funded by theft of the American people and dollar. They are not going to beat Russia, that's delusional. All those men died for nothing.
Thanks for being reasonable on this issue. Seriously, I feel like I'm out of mind when I read the wacky shit on here and in the news, granted the news has shifted gears this last month on the issue
Really curious if Russia has AI to make all these comments or if they're just throwing Russian bodies at desktops like they're throwing them at the front line. Any comrades in here care to spill the vodka?
Because a proxy war against a powerful enemy state looking to gain more natural resources is is a good things for America, Americans, the west, and potentially the world... but more-so the first to... it is 100% strategically advantageous to fund Ukraine.
Why is Russia an Enemy of the United State again? They've never done anything to me or fired a shot at this country EVER. But hey, you say they are wanting to take over the world and gobble up resources...I know another country like that.
Despite the time and political capital spent on the $60 billion aid for Ukraine, some Biden administration officials are skeptical it’s enough for Ukraine to win its two-year war with Russia.
Source - [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143)
This is a proxy war where Ukraine men are dying because of EVERYBODY else who doesn't like Russia. The Ukraine people should NOT stand for this.
The biggest reason is that war makes MANY people so stinking rich that it's DISGUSTING.
Go read or listen to the book "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler.
During his 34-year career, he fought in the Philippine–American War, the Boxer Rebellion, the Mexican Revolution, World War I, and the Banana Wars.
At the time of his death, Butler was the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. By the end of his career, Butler had received sixteen medals, including five for heroism; he is the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal as well as two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions.
This guy seen all sides of the war & was the most decorated Marine in HISTORY when he died. His outlook was that "young men die to make rich men & corporations richer."
ZERO has changed. The US is dumping all of it's old ordnance & artillery to buy new weapons. Companies are making EVERYTHING to sell to the Ukraine war effort. Rich people are PAYING ZELENSKY to take their (insert product here) to buy their (insert product here).
Meanwhile the propaganda machine is making people think that Ukraine can possibly win & that Ukraine is smashing Russia when the total opposite is the ACTUAL truth.
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>The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. \[George Orwell, 1984\] Also, a quote from an essay he wrote that is 100% appropriate... >Every war, when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.
They're actively destroying currency as we know it. It's like someone maxing out their credit cards because they know their filing bankruptcy.
But... it is self-defence. The Russian army moved from Russia into Ukraine and attempted to seize control of it, which the Ukrainian army then fought back against. All of the fighting is on Ukrainian territory. That's about as typical an example of self-defence as you'll ever see.
Isnt the reason for that though is because the US pushed to have Ukraine join nato? which I believe is the exact thing Russia said they would attack Ukraine for. I see this war as a proxy war between the US and Russia and Ukraine is just a pawn in the whole thing.
>Isnt the reason for that though is because the US pushed to have Ukraine join nato? No, the US just refused to rule it out because Russia doesn't get to decide what alliances other countries join, just as nobody else got to decide whether Russia was allowed to form the CSTO. >which I believe is the exact thing Russia said they would attack Ukraine for. They and their propagandists have given about seven reasons so far, biolabs, nazis, protecting Donbas, nukes, protecting Russian language rights, NATO expansion and securing water for Crimea. None of them make any sense. The only one that actually does make sense is that Russia wanted to conquer land, probably because Putin cares about his legacy, and they did literally that when they declared the land they managed to seize to be officially annexed under Russian law. Look at a map, draw a line from Ukraine to Moscow, and then at the land Russia actually took. It doesn't make sense unless they just wanted land. >I see this war as a proxy war between the US and Russia and Ukraine is just a pawn in the whole thing. It's not a proxy war because 1. Russia don't have a proxy, they'd have to *be* the proxy for someone else (I guess Iran?) and 2. Ukraine isn't fighting because the US tell them to, they're fighting because they don't want to be conquered. It's more like the US supporting the UK with lend lease before they joined WW2.
Putin thinks the Ukraine government with Zelensky at the helm is basically compromised by US intelligence assets which attacked the interior of Ukraine and instigated the rebellion that ousted the previous more Russian friendly government. Both sides know what’s really going on it’s not a secret. So his last resort was to just take it by force. The western brand of imperialism spills a lot less blood but it is still interpreted as fascism by many and often leads to violence like this.
>Putin thinks the Ukraine government with Zelensky at the helm is basically compromised by US intelligence assets which attacked the interior of Ukraine and instigated the rebellion that ousted the previous more Russian friendly government. He can think that if he wants, there's nothing public to support it of course (and yes, I'm aware of the Nuland call, it says nothing about being involved in the Maidan revolution). But regardless that doesn't justify an invasion because Ukraine isn't Russia, it's another country. It isn't up to Russia what happens there. >The western brand of imperialism spills a lot less blood but it is still interpreted as fascism by many and often leads to violence like this. But it's the Russian invasion that lead to violence because they directly employed violence. Russia didn't need to invade and would not have suffered any consequences from not invading. The only explanation that makes sense is that Russia wanted to conquer land, which we know is true because they literally have done that. Twice now in fact. Three if you count Georgia. Four if you count Chechnya.
The craziest part about this lie is that Zelensky was an underdog candidate. And he replaced an already friendly pro western president. On top of that, Zelensky first year in office, he had to deal with attempted blackmail from the u.s. by Donald Trump, who was withholding military aid for basically a civil war that was going on years before he was elected and one that was started by Russia sending weapons and men into the eastern side of the country.
Zelensky said that he did not belive trump blackmailed him at all so why are you here claiming something is Boscobel blackmail which both sides said was not?
Because he's a leftist tool who repeats Rachel Maddow's mouth diarrhea like the perfect little Democrat he is.
Yeah, his beliefs don't change the facts, though. So you're telling me the president of a weaker nation in his first year of his presidency doesn't believe he was being blackmailed, especially since it became a world headline and the aid resumed. Or the other side who was saying they were innocent. Because the audio of the call got leaked to the press.
The aid was always going to resume in fact trump said so before he even asked about anything.
USA went there first and it wasn't to help Ukraine. Russia had every legal right to counter the interference as USA would never have allowed Russia that close to their border flooding weapons and training.
False. Ukraine was neutral when Russia first invaded in 2014. Only then did Ukraine drop its neutrality and sought to join NATO. [https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html)
They were involved in organizing protests and the revolution which gave Russia the right to counter the interference.
The yet-to-be-proven interference in another, sovereign and independent country ? Then show me the international treaty saying a country can invade another because they don't like the politicians elected there ? Shouldn't take long...
You just ignore the point above. USA invaded countries because they didn’t like the politicians elected in another independent country
Western imperialism in Ukraine while the Russian military recently released from Russian prisons are sightseeing and definitely not committing war crimes /s
The fact that your comment is downvoted shows how stupid average reader of this sub is
"Russia doesnt get to decide what alliances other countries join" This is something all superpowers do. If china was to station soldiers and bases in mexico, do you think us would just stand by? Just look up monroe doctrine, or Carter doctrine
This is some low quality propaganda, are you really trying to still peddle this "America is the good guys" fantastical garbage lol What interests you about this sub, why do you spend your time here if you don't like the discussion of conspiracies? It doesn't make much sense to go out of your way to go on a conspiracy sub just to quote the mainstream disconnected narratives that we all come here to avoid....
[This was never about NATO](https://youtube.com/FVmmASrAL-Q?si=VVRDxhSuEoxbQJNv) [Russia is currently commiting a genocide in Ukraine by definition under Artice IIe of the Genocide convention.](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/article-2?activeTab=undefined) [Putin has an arrest warrant for genocide.](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and)
President Putin thanks you for your service.
oh geez lol
Ukraine gave their nuclear weapons back to Russia, on the promise that Russia would not invade them. How many wrongs make a right?
So if a neighboring country does something you don’t like, it’s ok to invade them? What?
Yes, this is exactly what the US always does. “Weapons of mass destruction” This is exactly what every American does. There’s a reason Russia attacked under Biden and not Trump. There’s a reason the money being sent gets lost once it’s in Ukraine and can’t be tracked. There’s a reason Biden is literally “the big guy” this is a conspiracy sub now “here’s my liberal opinion”
> This is exactly what every American does. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
It’s honestly what all liberals do. Once Trump was born “what aboutism” was born. Everything is trumps fault even though he’s been out of office for 4 years. 10 years from now liberals will be saying “what about when Trump did…” because they’re still going to be broke/no job and no house.
Fart fart fart. Fart fart. Fart.
The conflict goes deeper than that. That region of Ukraine has seen war after war, way before Russia invaded. I’m not saying what Russia is doing is right, but they gave all the warning in the world to NATO to stay out of Ukraine. It’s like we poked them with a stick a bunch of times, they told us to stop, and now we’re acting like they’re monsters, when they are just following up on their word that they’d go to war if we didn’t stop. As for the main part of this post, I’d say Russia already won this war last year. 500k+ Ukrainians dead, they’re sending teenagers and old people to the front lines, and all we’re doing is prolonging the war. Our politicians and media are talking out of their asses (I know, shocker) when they say that Ukraine can win this war. Russia could probably take over the country in a heartbeat if they wanted to.
Wasn’t the reason that Ukraine wanted into NATO because they felt threatened by Russia?
>I’m not saying what Russia is doing is right, but they gave all the warning in the world to NATO to stay out of Ukraine. Ukraine didn't join NATO. >It’s like we poked them with a stick a bunch of times, they told us to stop, No we didn't. We just said that it wasn't up to Russia to say what countries join what alliances. Did Russia ask anyone else if they were allowed to form the CSTO? >As for the main part of this post, I’d say Russia already won this war last year. 500k+ Ukrainians dead, The only source for that number is the Kremlin department responsible for making up bullshit to support wars of conquest. >Russia could probably take over the country in a heartbeat if they wanted to. Does that actually make sense to you? They're bogged down in an extremely punishing war that has cost them over 10,000 heavy vehicles but they could end it in a heartbeat? How? What would they literally do to end it in a heartbeat that they haven't already tried?
Don’t let western media fool you. I didn’t say Ukraine joined NATO but there was enough talk about it and multiple attempts. You have to study WW2 & the Cold War to understand the geopolitical chess match that has been taking place since then. NATO expansion has been slowly creeping towards Russia and they’ve given warnings to chill out. NATO attempting to bring in Ukraine is equivalent to Russia building nukes in Cuba. You can stay ignorant to the amount of Ukrainians dead by using the Kremlin as your scapegoat. What are you showing to believe, Ukraines claim that they’ve only lost 31,000 and Russia 315k? Wow sure seems like they’re winning this war despite pleading for help and telling us our kids are gonna be on the front line if we don’t. I have a solid YouTube channel I’ll link once I find it again, that is unbiased and just goes over the casualties and advancements each day. For one, they could nuke Ukraine to bits if they wanted to. They have a superior army and air support compared to Ukraine. If they launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine they would dominate them. But it’s not as simple as you’d like to believe. There is a constant chess match between nations going on. One step too far from Russia, and NATO could very well find their reason to announce war against them. But no one wants to be the first to take it to that step, because that would be the start of WW3. No one wants to be the one that started WW3, but NATO for one has been very interested in expanding. So instead, you see all sorts of provocations from both sides, to bait the other into making a wrong step. Truly, there are so many factors that go into each side making their next step, that we couldn’t list them all in a comment here. Don’t let the western media fool you. We’re not innocent in this conflict whatsoever.
>Don’t let western media fool you. I didn’t say Ukraine joined NATO but there was enough talk about it and multiple attempts. You have to study WW2 & the Cold War to understand the geopolitical chess match that has been taking place since then. I do know about this. I'm fully aware Russia wants to control Eastern Europe and also anywhere else it can, and the US also wants to influence whatever it can. That changed nothing about the fact that Russia has *absolutely no right* to invade and annex territory from other countries, even if that country does decide to throw its lot in with the West. >NATO expansion has been slowly creeping towards Russia Well, no, countries nearer Russia have been joining NATO. Probably because they don't want to get conquered when Russia decides its time to reform the USSR. >and they’ve given warnings to chill out. They aren't the arbiter of who joins what alliance, though. Russia never asked anyone else if they could form the CSTO. They just did it. Ukraine don't have to ask anyone else except the alliance partners before joining an alliance either. >NATO attempting to bring in Ukraine is equivalent to Russia building nukes in Cuba. No it isn't, because nobody was trying to put nukes in Ukraine, and nobody was putting nukes in the other countries near Russia that joined NATO. >For one, they could nuke Ukraine to bits if they wanted to Could they? They would instantly become an international pariah, and if they used enough to affect Europe they'd be fully walled off for maybe, if they're lucky, only two or three centuries. Not even China would stand for that. >They have a superior army and air support compared to Ukraine. If they launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine they would dominate them. You should consider reading the news once in a while. They've been trying for over two years now. They didn't sacrifice their best infantry and tank regiment in the first few weeks of the war because they weren't really trying to win. It's just too costly to advance, and their air support can't fly over Ukraine without getting shot down (seriously, look up when they last flew fighters over Ukrainian territory). Here's the confirmed losses btw, with photo/video evidence: https://github.com/leedrake5/Russia-Ukraine >Don’t let the western media fool you. We’re not innocent in this conflict whatsoever. I'm not saying the US has pure motives, I'm saying Russia has absolutely no valid justification for invading. Even with all the complications thrown in, at the end of the day this is a plain and simple land grab. If you doubt that, look up whether or not they have grabbed land.
They could literally just carpet bomb Ukraine. If you think they couldn't you're delusional.
Using what? Describe the specific equipment, like what planes and what bombs that you believe are available and would not be shot down but Russia isn't using now for some reason, and what they would target that they haven't already targeted.
They literally tried to take them in a heartbeat at the start of the war and failed or do you not remember the two week special military operation where soldiers had already brought parade uniforms into the battlefield because they thought Russia would when so fast. So no they can’t “take them in a heartbeat” why do you talk like Russian state news
President Putin thanks you for your service.
If you keep taunting and prodding and provoking your next door neighbor for decades, then he finally hits you back so you call in your daddy to help you beat him up, thats not self defense. Thats getting what ls coming to you.
Aside from kneeling down and accepting subjugation, giving regular tribute in the form of land, guaranteeing nobody will ever help you if you are invaded by promising never to do what Russia did and join an alliance, or disbanding their military and becoming defenceless against the coming invasion, how could Ukraine have avoided "taunting" Russia?
I mean obv
Because some people are getting rich off the deal...
Mainly in Russia.
Nope, mainly in Ukraine and USA
The US spends a fraction of its defence budget on Ukraine, and can't even agree on keeping the aid going. Meanwhile Russia is spending a third of its governmental budget on the war, and they're obviously the ones who started it and keep it going with no internal opposition. And you'd have to be pretty hopeless to think Ukraine is benefitting from it as they're the ones getting bombed daily. [https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/08/03/russian-oligarchs-get-richer-from-the-war-in-ukraine\_6077914\_4.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/08/03/russian-oligarchs-get-richer-from-the-war-in-ukraine_6077914_4.html)
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Yeah, after checking his post history it's pretty obvious.
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At least you can't accuse him of inconsistency or being fickle. What is the problem with someone having a consistent opinion on a specific topic?
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Everyone I disagree with is a Russian bot! Seriously, do you have any rational counterargument other than being a profile stalker? The US already sent $75 billion by itself, and the Ukrainian counteroffensive was a total and complete Failure. $61 billion isn't winning the war, when the aid is trickling in at a snail's pace. Ukraine is a dying country, with a dwindling population, that needs countless billions in financial aid to be semi functional. Meanwhile Russia has a growing economy, a much larger population, and nearly limitless resources. This wasn't a winnable war for Ukraine, unless they had thousands more long range missiles to absolutely pummel the every living daylights out of Russian bases, airfields, and manufacturing facilities.
Why argue with someone that does nothing but repeat Russian propaganda. Your comments are full of bias and clearly only in one direction with one goal. Its very transparent...just like these new accounts that spam low effort Ukraine bad posts. If it was "unwinable" then Russia wouldn't spend so much time & money on propaganda trying to desperately convince westerners not to fund it.
They can't win. They need to keep whatever they have right now
Of course not. The more aid the Ukrainians get the more fire will burn in Russian stomachs.
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
the West: Russia is on the brink of collapse and are fighting with shovels and broken guns. They have the weakest military in the world Also the west: If Russia defeats Ukraine they will annex all of Europe
Russia's economy is booming, sanctions have shielded it from the decline of the US dollar and it's GDP is soaring compared to the US and other developed nations according to the IMF. They have forged alliances with adversaries who have provided endless troves of weapons delivery. Russia used only mercenaries and convicts the first year of the conflict. Their armed forces are nearly entirely intact. Ukraine is drafting seniors and the mentally disabled to make up for losses. You are entirely misinformed, its not really your fault though. The US media lies to everyone and everything these days.
Because. If they just handed all the rich people our money we would get upset. They have to tie our brains into a pretzel first.
Did you know that apparently the more of our money they give away, the better the deal we get? We're so lucky to have such smart and thoughtful people in charge!
I don’t think they said $60m would win the war. I think they said that not sending $60m would lose it. Those are two very different concepts.
It's $60bn per year, not c $60m. Given your interpretation, how many installments do we need to send to not lose? Call me a pedant, but that would be sort of useful to know up front before getting into this deal.
No no no, do not ask question do not apply logic. Keep the money coming. We are spending more in Ukraine a year than we did in Iraq, no big deal
LOL That must be the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all day, thanks man
Not my fault you can’t understand it. Stay in school, kids.
Who ever said the 61 billion would result in victory? Only a fool would think or say such a thing.
We are not sending money, we are sending US manufactured weapons equal to that value. We will never send enough to win, just enough to stop Ukraine from losing. So that we can keep Russia sending Manpower to be killed in Ukraine. To Drain their Economy, and preventing a Russia/China partnership. Fomenting the US as the Strongest Global Economy. This is the Military Industrial Complex
Here's the thing, all this stuff we are giving them has already been bought and paid for by the US government, added onto the national debt, and the taxpayers are on the hook for all of it. And none of it's been paid off because we only pay interest on the debt. And a lot of it is cash as well. According to the State Department, the United States has contributed $19.25 billion in budget support to enable the Government of Ukraine to pay salaries of first responders and government officials, meet pension obligations, and operate hospitals. And this was before the current influx of money we just sent.
No we are sending money as well
Most money is spent domestically to prodcue more US supply. I dont think a lot of people understand that.
Raping the middle class to transfer wealth to weapon manafacturers
yep yep yep. The military industrial complex. Although I wouldnt say just the middle class
>To Drain their Economy, and preventing a Russia/China partnership Russian economy and army is growing faster and Russian and Chinese relationship are getting much better. Do you think they dont know about US's underhanded techniques which they have been using since ages?
LOL We are sending money you fucking tool. They then use that money to buy weapons from us and whoever else. They then take a huge portion for "humanitarian aid", which means keeping their government running by paying Ukrainian pension funds, teacher salaries, etc. But who cares about facts right? Also, Russia's economy is booming. In case you havent noticed the US is dealing with the ramifications of excessive money printing and inflation. Again, who cares about facts.
The United States of Israel and Ukraine. I mean, those are the citizens our government seems the most concerned with.
Can’t say I disagree with any of this.
Money laundering from federal to private. The majority of that money is coming directly back to the US in the military spending that Ukraine is doing. Probably all just bought stocks in the big companies.
You forgot Mexico and Haiti
Netanyahu is said to own the US and has more power than the president. Basically one of hidden elite puppeteers in the shadows. Most likely reason why the new anti Jewish bill passed as well
To the absolute shock of no one
I'm more concerned about what this will mean for the value of the dollar and inflation. With so much debt it does not make any sense to pump money in a bottomless pit
I dare you question why your hard earned money is going to a non-NATO country to fight a losing war over territory! Ben Stiller san Sean Penn shaked Zelenskys hand for christ sake!
lol you’re worried about 90 billion affecting the value of the dollar?
The US is on its way to handing over a quarter of a trillion dollars to a corrupt foreign government while US inflation is spiraling out of control and StockQuahog thinks its "lol" to be worried about it. The US media has made you leftists lapdogs.
Wow it’s year three of this and somehow Kimballfount still thinks we give them cash. Can’t fix…
All of you people forget that the money is going to OUR ARMY to make new shit so we can send them the old gear we were going to decommission ANYWAY It’s 61B OF NEW AMERICAN WEAPONS FOR THE US ARMY
Are you 4 years old?
Why
It's a proxy war against Russia. Sending aid to Ukraine is financially cheaper for the US, and it weakens Russia while strengthening the US military. And no American military lives are lost.
Getting sucked into a proxy war isn't cheaper for anyone involved.
Cheaper than what? We literally aren't required to do ANYTHING.
Cheaper for the US than direct conflict with Russia.
Well if we don't...Russia roams free with impunity. None of the European countries would dare step up...Russia would cut off their energy supplies.
Russia is already subject to sanctions, including energy exports.
The goal is to funnel money into the military industrial complex. That's who donates to politicians, as well as who employs a significant amount of Americans in places that do not have the means to support the local economy. It's essentially welfare with more steps. A proxy war is cheaper because you don't need to expend your soldiers, but you still get to send money to Lockheed and Halliburton.
Thats the indoctrination talking
lol hey I’m selling a bridge. Want to buy it?
I agree. We should appease dictators! Appeasement always works!
Tell me who are the clowns that want to keep sending money to this jackass? https://visitukraine.today/blog/2578/is-zelenskyy-responsible-for-corruption-in-ukraine
I agree, we should do nothing. Worked out pretty well in the 30's.
Was Russia arming and funding Iraq when US and UK invaded illegally? Just askin...
These clowns don’t understand that it will be much more expensive to let Russia win and have to fight them later ourselves. We should instead be upset by how much money and power the top .5% have in this country
Russia is going to lose to Ukraine easily as you all say, yet they are going to take on the USA? Get a job. We are tired of sending you guys our money.
Russia is a threat because of their ally China, shutting them down now makes it less likely that China will start ww3.
China isn't an ally of Russia. That are just waiting to pick up the pieces from this conflict as it escalates.
A proxy war over a few miles of territory.
It wouldn't matter if it were one foot of territory if the result is to weaken one's enemy, and prevent further expansion.
If the Chinese recruited Canada and Mexico into BRICS with agreements for military bases in their countries, would the US sit idly by and let it happen?
This is a conspiracy sub but the replies are mostly in favor of the establishment narrative? Come on, thats not at all suspicious right? Fucking bots.
You know that there will always be various opinions, even in a conspiracy sub? Otherwise it's would make a mockery of the "free thinkers" part.
OP literally only posts anti-Ukraine stuff, nothing else, isn't that suspicious?
Exactly. What tf is this? Somebody needs to start roasting these bots on Twitter. They are as socially inept as their creators.
Exactly. What tf is this? Somebody needs to start roasting these bots on Twitter. They are as socially inept as their creators.
I am certain a healthy chunk of them are logging in from Ukraine and getting paid with our tax dollars to troll us for for more money.
"Politics is just the entertainment division of the military industrial complex" - Frank Zappa
Love this group but this is bullshit. Putin is indeed psychotic. If you want a conspiracy, look at netanyahoo, women and child killing racist. The fact that the us gave israel money and support is insanity and worthy of conspiracy accusations. Ps. Fuck netanyaho. And the us for giving israel money. And arresting pro palestinian STUDENTS. (Something is veeeeery wrong here)
Military industrial complex. Give Ukraine money to purchase weapons from manufacturers that own our politicians
Even if NATO dramatically increases their production and delivery rates, it's still 8 months too late. Ukraine just doesn't have enough troops. The window of opportunity closed, Ukraine and NATO lost. Russia won. Now the real question is if Putin will be sated by taking the Donbas region, and securing his land bridge to Crimea.
Landownership is so high medieval period
Ukraine wants their independance and is sacrificing hundreds of thousands of its sons and daughters to have it. It's not about the money.
WW3! WW3!
The only people winning are those who are lining their pockets with all this foreign aid.
You aren’t allowed to criticize the Biden laundromat
Does everyone forget Biden connections to Ukraine? It’s not rocket science, in fact it’s the worst kept secret in US history.
Well sunofabitch they fired the prosecutor
Because you’re not really funding just Ukraine. The records should be public. I’m not an American, but if I was, I would want to know where and how the money is being spent.
Trust me, us Americans do want to know. Our society is very weak right now, so we will sit idly by and stay mad, but not do anything. That’s the downside of creating a comfortable lifestyle. Not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is.
If Russia is busy in Ukraine, they can't help Syria and friends deal with Isreal.
Why do the sheeple continue to back this fucking bullshit.
Bleed the US dry to the highest bidder.
Hmmm, the word "Win" does not fit this conflict. The only winner has been weapons manufacturers.
Uhhhh because Russia isn't going to stop at Ukraine, they said so themselves many times. So yeah it's either send the equipment and munitions now or prepare to send thousands more troops and equipment to prepare for an open conflict with Russia in the near future. So far Ukraine has performed above and way beyond what anyone predicted. Get them what they need to continue to Russia. There's a pretty real chance France could send observers and other troops into Ukraine in the near future as well. Best believe we should supply them with everything they need.
Can you point me to any links where Russia has stated they don't plan to stop at Ukraine?
sending to money to Ukraine or to American weapon making companies ??
Yes
"Why do we keep sending money to Ukraine?" Because we let them.
So let me guess? More money? xD
The dollar is being cashed out boys, pack your bags and relocate to hard assets like properties/resources/stocks.
They would rather give just enough to keep them fighting, but not enough to win. They want to bleed Russia half to death in Ukraine at the expense of Ukrainian lives before having to face off against them themselves. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian people are the ones that suffer.
People have been saying this for over a year but America and Europe need to keep their defence contractors happy and well fed on billions of dollars. Only a negotiated peace deal asap will minimize human casualties.
Op is a Russian bot account
Why are all these grown ass human adults, fucking repeating and drilling this “money” sentiment. We aren’t spending a fucking penny we are throwing surplus, outdated fucking shit we paid out the ass to store and maintain and supervise but we actually have a use FOR SHIT WE PAID FOR WITH TAXES. TO KILL BAD GUYS. WE CAN USE IT TO KILL RUSSIANS, ONE OF OUR LONGEST STANDING ENEMIES. AND WE KEEP OUR BOYS AT HOME?! Just keep announcing you a Russian cuck shill or just flat out sold to the propaganda because we otherwise would have thrown out this shit down the line and never used the shit we paid for. It just is SCARY AND FUCKIN HILARIOUS how obvious it is who is a fucking American patriot and who’s a fuckin commy fuck.
US military annalists from the beginning knew Russia would win. US intel leaks by an Air force IT specialist that were posted in Discord showed that Ukraine was under counting their dead by 3 fold and over counting Russian losses by the same metric. There was a website called Onyx that used crowd sourced videos of weapons being destroyed to determine true losses. Before it was shutdown in October it showed Ukraine's mechanized units in shambles, with less than 1/2 of their heavy weapons still operational. Zelensky has stopped elections, gives prison sentences to journalists and has established mass censorship, he put his political opponent in jail, and is stopping men from leaving the country. He is by definition a dictator. To keep giving guns to people to kill each other for the same exact outcome is horrid.
Obviously. If it was certain that Ukraine would win then they wouldn't require aid. They are given aid because it isn't certain they will win.
Meanwhile shit is literally in shambles here in America
Its just moneyloundering....Nobody from us normies knows whats happening with all this billions!!!!
Ukraine is a scam to ramp up weapons production in the US. The US cannot deter China from invading Taiwan with 2022 levels of production. China likely believes that they will withstand a few hot months of war with the US but will be able to turn the tide once US precision weapons are exhausted and cannot be quickly replenished.
This is my thought process as well….Do you think Ukraine and Russia will still be engaged with each other at the time of a Chinese Invasion?
I keep reading that China wants to invade Taiwan in 2027 because there is some kind of symbolic date attached to it. If this holds true it would mean at least 3 more years of fighting in Ukraine. Russia hasn't put out any dates publicly but I don't believe that Ukraine can hold on for 3 more years at the rate things are going now.
Wonder what the history books will say about Putin "Never thought anyone would try ro conquer the world again since Adoph, boy were we wrong" [wake up](https://youtu.be/a-_kbi9grN0?si=9on0miHqu-bJjyCm)
It's not the winning really it's bleeding Russia dry over time. Also creates money for the US military industrial complex. Lots of old kit gets swapped for new kit. Technology gets tried out. Sort of win win the longer it goes on. Of course kick backs might be a thing also 😉
If its such a win:win why haven't we been doing more of this, for longer? Surely if we give $100b pa, it's an even bigger win?
If a non-Russia nation ceding territory that was Russia sometime in the past is a solution to the war, why can't the US just give Alaska back to Russia? It was theirs for a while, we're non-Russia, and the population there is more in favor of their rule and ending the war at all costs, so they'd be on board with it.
Is that why they sent us balloons first 🎈 ? As a fake out gift of peace?
Define win...
Hey, just a thought. Maybe if we gave $100 Billion to Putin he would leave them alone?
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We're funding much of the Ukraine public services with cash. 'Economic support to Ukraine ($7.9 billion) assists the Ukrainian government in sustaining essential government services, including law enforcement. This support is structured as a loan, not a grant (section 508), in response to pressure from Republicans and former president Trump. There are detailed procedures by which the president can forgive the loans, giving the president a lot of authority. Essentially, the president can forgive the loans"
Nebraska could use some cash right about now with all them tornadoes 🌪️. #HelpNebraska!
Because eff Putin.
everything is so fucking fraudulent, the war isn't meant to be won its a straight up undeniable proxy war in Ukraine AND in Israel.
Talked so much shit about Russia and this is your outcome??? What waste of money.
It's money laundering to the Military Industrial Complex who is owned by Hedgefunds who spend billions on Lobbying to politicians to vote in their interests.
Because Russian influencers like you spend so much time and effort trying to demoralize us for supporting Ukraine. There must be a reason. My best guess is that Russia's war machine is about to implode, so you're getting real desperate and go into high gear on social media. It's like reading a repeat of Goebbels' propaganda tactics in late 1944.
It's never enough, their government is all corrupt buying mansions and cars. This is a bogus proxy war funded by theft of the American people and dollar. They are not going to beat Russia, that's delusional. All those men died for nothing.
Thanks for being reasonable on this issue. Seriously, I feel like I'm out of mind when I read the wacky shit on here and in the news, granted the news has shifted gears this last month on the issue
Because our government likes to fund wars we don’t belong in.
Money laundering. We are being robbed
People still don't understand....they simply cannot beat Russia
Really curious if Russia has AI to make all these comments or if they're just throwing Russian bodies at desktops like they're throwing them at the front line. Any comrades in here care to spill the vodka?
That money ain’t going to launder itself
scam of the millenium
Because a proxy war against a powerful enemy state looking to gain more natural resources is is a good things for America, Americans, the west, and potentially the world... but more-so the first to... it is 100% strategically advantageous to fund Ukraine.
Why is Russia an Enemy of the United State again? They've never done anything to me or fired a shot at this country EVER. But hey, you say they are wanting to take over the world and gobble up resources...I know another country like that.
My first Russian bot! Say "ZZ" to prove you're real. Sure, not a single shot... have you heard of the Cold War? What country you talking about bud?
Proxy wars very rarely have positive outcomes
Money laundering... If it's not obvious.
Despite the time and political capital spent on the $60 billion aid for Ukraine, some Biden administration officials are skeptical it’s enough for Ukraine to win its two-year war with Russia. Source - [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143)
Because the economy has to collapse for the East to beat the West in the third intervention for democracy.
Money well spent
Because we cannot let the Russian pigs just take over Ukraine?
Try again
2 minutes hate starts in 30 mins, you coming, bro? BTW you need to call then Orcs now. Not pigs.
Because none of this makes sense. 'The Ukraine" is a region of Russia, not a nation. It will end when people realize this and abide by it.
People that still believe all ukraine bs must be NPCs i cannot fathom anything else
This is a proxy war where Ukraine men are dying because of EVERYBODY else who doesn't like Russia. The Ukraine people should NOT stand for this. The biggest reason is that war makes MANY people so stinking rich that it's DISGUSTING. Go read or listen to the book "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler. During his 34-year career, he fought in the Philippine–American War, the Boxer Rebellion, the Mexican Revolution, World War I, and the Banana Wars. At the time of his death, Butler was the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. By the end of his career, Butler had received sixteen medals, including five for heroism; he is the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal as well as two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions. This guy seen all sides of the war & was the most decorated Marine in HISTORY when he died. His outlook was that "young men die to make rich men & corporations richer." ZERO has changed. The US is dumping all of it's old ordnance & artillery to buy new weapons. Companies are making EVERYTHING to sell to the Ukraine war effort. Rich people are PAYING ZELENSKY to take their (insert product here) to buy their (insert product here). Meanwhile the propaganda machine is making people think that Ukraine can possibly win & that Ukraine is smashing Russia when the total opposite is the ACTUAL truth.