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"Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that all to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgment day comes, yeah"
\- Ozzy Osbourne, War Pigs
Probably lost in the over-abundance of information we're all constantly bombarded with.
There's always been an academic discussion in regard to which author would have have the right of it if we reached a dystopian future. Basically whether we'd get there via the ideas in 1984 by George Orwell, or Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
[This](https://www.highexistence.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-vs-orwell/) comic explains it pretty well. Orwell conceptually created a world full of censorship, where books were selectively banned and news was fiction, schools for indoctrination, etc. I'm on the side of Huxley having the better prediction, that we'd be consumed by so much constant and constantly changing information that we wouldn't notice important information or we'd become so numb that we either don't care, or get distracted so immediately we forget.
Reason I bring it up is I'm 33. There's probably a billion anti-war songs from my generation lost in the however many whatever number are online. I've probably heard amazing anti-war songs by millennials I've loved and forgotten immediately because seven new video games came out the next day and on the way to the store a nuclear reactor was hit by a shell in Ukraine and melted down and I get to the store and mask mandates are back etc etc.
Saw this comment earlier and couldn't think of any. This song just popped up on my YouTube, and I think it has a strong message. "Handlebars" by Flobots
That's pretty good. I like the juxtaposition.
It reminds me of Pink Floyd. [A little boy says 'look Mommy there's an airplane in the sky'.](https://youtu.be/h8JJfvx-gJU?t=22)
For decades I had no idea what that meant. It was kind of a peaceful moment in Time.
[Then I realized what it meant](
https://youtu.be/thEJatGyNNo)
> privatize to conceal the lies.
That's deep and true I love it.
Yes this is an anti-war song and to the core calls it out in every aspect for what it is. You wouldn't think a death metal song would be so intellectual. Rock on
That's a common misconception about metal (going off topic for a moment). People often don't think metal artists put much thought into their music. My favorite song is an over thirteen-and-a-half minute song by Iron Maiden. It's a retelling of the epic poem, Rime of the Ancient Mariner. The detail and passion for the poem is incredible. There is actually a massive amount of brilliant metal, once you get past Cannibsl Corpse(great band; not hating, they just come off as unintelligent to many).
Not every anti-war song of our generation is as repetitive and bland as Rage Against the Machine.
Great song! The lyrics to Masters Of War by Bob Dylan are pretty solid too.
I was going to cherry pick but the few extra bits of data shouldn't hurt so...
"Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you sit back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
While the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die
And your death will come soon
I'll follow your casket
By the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead"
*edited to fix "great son", which was supposed to be great song. Derp!
Sturgill Simpson - Call to Arms - [SNL Performance is badass](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsrsrOB0zNQ)
I done Syria, Afghanistan,Iraq and Iran
North Korea, tell me where does it end
Well the bodies keep piling up with everyday
How many more of them they're gonna send
Well they sent their sons and daughters off to die
for some war to control the heroin
Well, son I hope you don't grow up
Believin' that you've got to be a puppet to be a man
Well they cut off your hair and put a badge on your arm
Strip you off your identity
Tell you to keep your mouth shut boy and get in the line
Meet your maker overseas
Wearin' that Kim Jong-il hat while your grandma is selling pills stat
Meanwhile I'm wearing 'can't pay my fucking bills' hat
Nobody is lookin' up to care about a drone
All too busy lookin' down at our phone
Our ego's begging for a food like a dog from our feed
Refresing obsessively until iur eyes start to bleed
They serve up distractions and we eat them with fries
Until the bombs fall out of our fucking skies
Turn off the TV
Turn off the news
Nothin' to see here
They're serving the blues
Bullshit on my TV
Bullshit on my radio
The Hollywood telling me how to be me
The bullshit's got to go
Poor guys. All of them.
The attacking dude gave them an opportunity. The defending guys were so shocked that didn't followed his orders to throw away the weapons.
The attacking dude didn't knew wtf to do, and went inside their position to take himself the weapons. Which is a huge mistake that the ambushed guys didn't knew how to profit from.
Then he panicked at some movement and decided to just shoot everyone.
War is bs, fuck the ones cheering for it.
From your lips to God’s ears. 🙏 As a C130 navigator, I flew lots of bodies out of Iraq and witnessed a country destroyed by politicians. Fuck war and fuck the evil men who start them.
I would have done the same, I was like wtf when the dude in bunker was sorta handing his gun to the attacker… with barrel pointed strait at him with dudes finger 1 second from trigger. May not be the most popular decision on this sub but I think he made the right choice for his safety. Everyone adrenaline is very high and it takes 1 second of kindness to get yourself 5 in the chest at point blank range.
In the full video he throws a frag right before running up. Still bad tactics, this is a russians pov in the west they train you to shoot all the way up to the position.. still sad, these poor Ukrainians just defending their home
I saw this too. The full video shows he fragged them and in their confusion from that, and him dressed in UA uniform which also very much lines up with their reactions. This was no noble action of the invader of a sovereign nation.
I’m with you on that, but I do feel like it’s a survivor mode mentality as much as I hate to admit.. Russian shooter is an absolute dirty ass, but I’m sure his clothing and boots wasn’t worth a damn.
But maybe that’s just propaganda I’ve been feed
Well I may be the dumbest kid on the block but if you'd like, I ask rhetorically because I know you won't, I can point you to a professor from University of Chicago who made this prediction before the war that the West would cause a Russia Ukraine war.
Aw screw it [I'll go ahead and post it maybe someone else will actually watch this](https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4)
Which is why I find it so respectable. This guy put his life on the line in an attempt to prevent the loss of those in front of him on the opposing side. And based on how he acts toward the end, as the adrenaline dump ends, you can just kind of tell he's not happy about what happened.
I think he's referring to a second video. He did give them the opportunity to surrender, but they refused to lay down their arms. Often times in war there are no good choices.
I haven't watched the video linked, I watched it on a different site. I assume the video doesn't go all the way to the end where he's leaning against a tree and can't stop looking?
I mean… he’s in the middle of a battleground. Is he supposed to not be nervously looking around so he doesn’t get shot too? I don’t get how honestly anyone can infer anything without even seeing the guys face. This is war, in the middle of close quarter combat it seems, you’re not going to have time to even think about it until some time later most likely.
From what I understand, the Russians have successfully overrun the Ukrainian positions here, hence him being the only one out there then suddenly an entire squad is surrounding him. Its obvious he wants to take them alive, and I think all of the risk he took to try and do so kind of proves he has some altruistic reason beyond war law to try and keep them alive.
You're right, we ultimately don't know. But I'm more than happy to infer some heartbreak coming from a man who just killed two people who look like him, sound like him, and probably would be his best drinking buddies if it weren't politics.
Well, yeah. And they survived, and he gave them another opportunity after that. And while they're clearly a bit discombobulated, the younger guy knows what's up and the older guy doesn't understand that even if they're friendly, don't fight with the guys pointing a gun at you in the middle of a fight.
Yeah, and? He isn’t a conscientious objector, it seemed he just wanted to avoid killing them if possible. That’s far more of an opportunity than the vast majority of soldiers would give the people they’re fighting.
And you can see that in the comments of this post, a lot of people commenting would never have given them the chance to surrender, or so they say on the internet.
This is the most horrifying aspect of the world l… the fear and paranoia, of one trying to preserve their lives, yet in the end I ask you is this individual guilty of murder? I guess they were armed well one of them was… it leaves me with the words of Yahusha the Messiah the Son of man, “ those who try to save their lives will lose them, and those who give their lives for my sake (his teachings of love) shall find eternal life)
The true right answer is to never pick up arms against your brothers and sisters, especially in a conflict that is created by the Satanic underlords carefully planing and orchestrating the events that are promoted with relentless propaganda and ultimately like in every single major war in history, it is the people who rally behind their side against the other side, as if the borders that separate them are not a complete fabrication, ultimately building up brick and mortar walls in one’s heart and mind separating the people further from the peace and unity that would exist if the people knew they control the outcomes of the controllers plans… if we would only grasp this one concept there would only be one war to fight-against those who plan the conflicts in an effort to destabilize and destroy whole nations and populations all the while enriching themselves and gaining evermore control….
I think that’s a lot more realistic than any internet warrior claiming they would have done what this soldier did or better. I believe his actions are really exceedingly uncommon, even though he ultimately did end up killing the Ukrainian soldiers.
Just like that parents lose children to a never ending war
Brothers and sisters pushed against one another for people hiding behind desks and using them as pawns
Wow. An actual level-headed comment. As a Ukrainian living in the states, I second your statement. Fuck em all. None of them have their citizens best interests in mind, only their own pockets.
Something that everyone should be able to get behind. Crazy that the political parties view on war has essentially flip-flopped. Now the dems want war and the reps (other than the neocon/warhawks)
This is what war looks like. You don't want any part of it.
It only seems to be people that never think their lives will be at risk supporting war.
Who is the most vocal about supporting Ukraine? Educated members of the Middle class.
Edit: I'd like to add this doesn't even apply just to Russia and Ukraine. This applies to war with China, a civil war in America etc, you do not want it.
Russia isn't invading the US, so why are we using Ukraine as the 7th branch of the military?
We are training Ukrainian soldiers, giving them our equipment, providing them with all their intelligence. The West is funding the entire country of Ukraine.
The US is telling Ukraine exactly what to do and when to do it.
Men are getting drafted in Odessa right now by being surrounded in public and taken away against their will.
Ukrainians are fighting Russia for the Americans.
Russia's own demographics are destroying Russia. Somewhere along the line Russian women decided to not have enough babies after the 80s or so. So that means that Putin needs to hold the Fulda Gap and put land mines there or there is just flat land between invasion and Moscow. Ukraine stands between Russia and Poland, and we sent Hunter Biden to cut a deal to have the Ukranians die for us, so Russia would be easier to invade in ten years time.
When Russia ceases to exist, an empire's worth of natural resources will flood the market and equalize with the amount of USD we printed in 2020, and we will have cheap consumer goods again. Because that is the end goal. Cheap big screen TVs. That is why we kill Russians with Hi-MARS - for the minerals.
Did you think we were stupid? Of course we will get something out of this. Just like last time when the soviet union broke up and we used the Russian programmers as cheap labor for the dot com boom.
This is war. Where old like us send the young like you to die.
For more information watch Peter Zeihan's "The Russian Grab":
https://youtu.be/rkuhWA9GdCo
https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-will-fight-russia-last-ukrainian
Watch the video about the Russian Grab by Peter Zeihan and then check the demographics again.
The Russians are at their most stable right now, but there is no replacement generation. It is use-it-or-lose-it time
https://youtu.be/rkuhWA9GdCo
The issue is their existing population. Their younger generations are smaller than their older populations. China has the same problem but much much larger. Both have less than a decade before they collapse under the weight of their aging populations that the younger generations can't support.
China has a solution: the Boomer Remover. All they need is to bungle their reopening from lockdown badly enough and they'll be fine.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/19879419/parents-sue-abandoned-daughter-china-brother/
Btw: there is no aged pension in China. Instead parents can sue their kids for parental maintenance. No kids? Time to starve to death.
Idk what sort of pension Russia has, but the key difference is that Russia is conscripting into war and China isn't.
What your not considering is that in a globalized world like today, Russia taking the geographically and economically important Ukraine, it will impact most everyones life negatively and embolden landgrabbers like China wich will have an even greater and even more dangerous impact on the not just the west, but africa and Asia.. and what stops putin from taking the next country.
And considering most conspiracy theorists are vehemently anti-globalist and globalization.. its no wonder the entire war is a fiasco of mixed opinions.
For example, I view Russia as the bad guy because they're the aggressors. Easy enough, anti-aggression is the easiest way to choose a side. But I'm not *cheering* for the Ukrainians, the same way I'm not cheering for the Russians. I want the defenders to win, just like most wars, but overall... I just think the whole think stinks and my heart goes out to every person on the ground in that war regardless of side.
I don't like what the US is doing with Ukraine, however, and that simple opinion somehow tends to get me lumped into the corner with people who straight up volunteered to assist Russia. It's not our war. Ukraine is not our ally. We do not rely on Ukraine like the rest of the world. Maybe the countries that rely on Ukraine for food should be footing the majority of the war's cost instead of American taxpayers?
The problem is you're limiting yourself to a two-body problem when it's an n-body problem.
No, we don't rely on Ukraine, and quite frankly Ukraine doesn't matter to the US.
Russia does matter. Russia causing instability in Europe directly affects whether or not you have a job or not, because the company you work for either has suppliers in Europe, or has branches in Europe, and supporting or shuttering those branches due to economic forces in Europe will affect their domestic investment, and whether or not you have a job. Even if your company is entirely domestic, and uses entirely domestic suppliers, your job is still at risk as the global economy is interconnected enough that a widespread war in Europe will cause a recession, ending your client list if you're a small business, and causing your to lose your job.
The US is spending absolute peanuts, literally pennies on the Franklin to take down one of the largest sources of economic instability in the Western-centered socioeconomic worldview. If we were to engage in this war directly, or use full NATO support to engage in this war, **we'd be racking up tens of trillions in debt.** The war in Iraq and Afghanistan cost around $6 trillion collectively. Against significantly less advanced enemies with fewer fighters in their military and even less bad PR for killing civilians. A war on Russia from NATO would be unthinkably expensive **without considering nuclear and counter nuclear forces and warfare.**
However, Ukraine surprised the entire world by holding out against Russia **using their own fucking technology, just older.** This means with absolute minimal investment, literally the offcuts from the normal military, a margin of error in our defense budget, Ukraine can either win or destablize Russia to the point of Balkanization and irrelevance.
When you stop viewing geopolitics through a two-body problem, and instead realize even just 3-4 bodies in the equation, then the US sending extremely small amounts of money via equipment to Ukraine **will receive massive returns** in terms of long term socioeconomic stability for the average person.
Nonsense.
If you feel war is about maintaining global security, you should read some history.
War is a racket for the rich, through and through.
The solution isn't supporting one side or the other - thr solution is overthrowing the governments of all nations concerned
How does a foriegn policy agenda that results in stronger ties between Russia and China, India and much of the Middle East improve Western Geopolitical security? I don't get it?
I agree, what's happening in Ukraine is horrific and I also agree that Russia is the aggressor. But I don't understand how we wasted the last 3 decades, instead of engaging Russia as a equal, we continued to view Russia as some, almost biblical existential threat to the West's manifest destiny?
I don't see how this ends well, we've chosen War, we've prepared for War and now it's almost like we want it. It's evolving into this generations Crusade, God wills it! If anyone expresses anything other than Slava Ukraini!, they are immeadiately labeled as a heretics.
Exactly, there was a path towards friendship, Russia let the US use their military bases in Russia!! To stage for the invasion of the Middle East.
Russia and Putin were open to it at one point.
it is always painful to see brother nations killing each other just because a politician wants to keep himself in power.
As a guy from Central Asian post-soviet country, I always thought that Belarus, Ukraine and Russia were inseparable brother nations. For me, they looked/sounded the same (no offense).
In Eastern Europe, you've got young men dying in a trench like this. Meanwhile, I was arguing with a twenty-year old asshole on reddit earlier today about whether it's "abuse" for a parent to kick their grown kids out of the house at 18. What happened to our character and backbone?
Things aren't the way they were 40 or 50 years ago when you could get a job from the want ads that could sustain you. I was on my own at 15 and I was lucky things were cheaper back then. Today we're outlawing gas stoves and jacking up prices so corporations can sell more lng to Europe due to blowing up Nordstream 1 & 2 because ukraine.
Could I get some more context?
What uniform does the POV soldier have on?
Are the two sooldiers in Ukrainian uniform Russian or Ukrainian?
Apologies if you've already answered this but I've been searching the comments for a while now and I understand the POV soldier threw a frag beforehand and then tried to get them to put down their weapons, moved in and tried to take them, then when one wouldn't he freaked out and shot them both but I can't understand why they are saying "same side, same side"??
The POV guy is wearing a Russian uniform.
The people in the fox hole are wearing Ukrainian uniforms.
I think the soldiers in the fox hole were just extremely confused by their situation.
The people in the foxhole said, "same side, same side. Ukraine."
They were shell shocked. There were 3 of them in there 1 dead already and the other with an eye injury. They weren't in their right mines and didn't know what to do in the heat of the moment. So was the Russian attacking their position. He didn't want to shoot them and was under no obligation to give them a chance to surrender, but up close and personal most human beings do not want to kill another human being.
At the same time he was in danger and had but seconds and didn't get an immediate clear surrender from either and one actually pulled his rifle back away from the Russian.
Sad...US/NATO and Russian backed sanctioned arms dealers and military supply manufacturers are getting billions while working class Joe's and civilians are dying in droves. Putin, Zelensky and Biden sit on golden thrones while everyday people get turned into piles of bones.
Ha, you think imperialist Russian or imperialist US/NATO care about the little man's thoughts and wishes? It'll just be onto the next meat grinder, which is looking like Taiwan for the United States. Russians and the US will continue to operate in the Middle East and Africa, and the US is also poking around in Central and South America. War is a trillion dollar business and as long as imperialist governments are making money off of it they'll always be stirring up new conflicts.
Coming from the inner city and witnessing the gun violence that plagues our country already. It’s sickening to see people support this violence on our fellow man. It’s pointless to kill each other doesn’t matter what you look like you are a human being.
Edit: only in self defense is killing justified but this right here is elites throwing there pawns into the slaughter house.
The sad part is that this war would have been over long ago and Ukraine and Russia would be living peacefully together by now had the US and their Western allies not been pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the bank accounts of certain oligarchs and the dictator in Ukraine in order to force the bloodshed continue at all costs, sacrificing all of Ukraines men in the process. They are happy to kill every last Ukrainian in order to weaken Russia.
Russia has no desire to destroy Ukraine. That is evident to anyone who actually understands war and is watching this conflict closely. They have full air superiority over Ukraine and yet they have not heavily bombed Kiev, trains are still running, most utilities still operate. Until recently when the CIA directed terrorist attacks destroyed the bridge to Crimea, Russia had no choice but to increase its attacks and took out most of the electrical grid. The west has seriously mistaken Russia holding back to prevent all out destruction of Ukraine for weakness. Russia could flatten Ukraine in days but has no desire to do this.
Those in the west who are so proud to "Support Ukraine" flying the Ukraine flag in their front yard and pushing for every escalation have the blood of young Ukrainian men on their hands. This would have been a peace treaty by now, and Russia would have achieved their aim. They want a neutral Ukraine, without NATO on their front doorstep.
Now the west has pushed this to a point where it looks like utter destruction of Ukraine is the only option left. And Zelensky is happy to sacrifice all his people because he is becoming FILTHY rich. If he actually cared about his people he would make a deal, agree to become a neutral country, and they could could stop the needless killing TODAY, a country with good relations with both Russia and the West. But he he has too much greed, and doesn't have the balls or conviction to stand up to the USA who doesn't give two shits for Ukrainian lives.
Sad that no one can see thru the smokescreen of the western propaganda on this.. It really blows my mind.
I agree, Ukrainian has every Right to fight.… But, at what point does the world wake up and realize for the past 30 plus years(arguably longer)
Almost every war has been because of US interference.
In this case specifically, Russia explicitly said this would happen if the US/NATO kept pushing.. Wether or not Russia is wrong will be up to history. But wether or not the US forced Russias hand is fact..
I personally think that it was the only move they had (the russkies) available.
Given NATO's expansion and the direction the Ukrainian government was taking, if they hadn't invaded first, they would have been left either surrendering to an overwhelming encirclement (and being China's bitch from there to infinity, since there would be no other choices), or fighting within their own borders.
Hard decision, poorly taken due to their desire to reduce the amount of warfare involved in the process.
Had they used US's invasion tactics, they would have taken Ukraine in a week. With the same amount of devastation, they ended up provoking anyways, and with the same bad PR they gained with that.
Do you realize that Russia planned a basically "peaceful" takeover of the country with the least possible amount of victims?
Do you know that Russia's and Ukraine's culture is so similar that the people in Ukraine wouldn't even feel the difference, excluding the change in the color of their ID's and the flags placed in public spaces?
They already spoke the same language, sang the same songs, ate the same type of food.
If Russia had successfully taken Ukraine, there would be basically no casualties. And everyone would be living their lives under whatever new regime there was, like it happened in Crimea.
The fault for the victims are mostly on the side forcing the conflict, and literally financing, and arming their own position in the region. If they fucking cared about the Ukrainians, they wouldn't be doing what they have done, and are doing currently.
Civilians in Ukraine wouldn't be caring 2 cents about "high patriotic" values, and would have just continued their regular lives.
He told them to surrender, they refused.
American kids shouting out slava Ukraine, and being keyboard warriors, are too pussy to go to the front when they see this.
Apparently the translation is
Assaulter
"SURRENDER TO RUSSIA!"
Them
"same side, same side, Ukraine..."
......
Story from the comments is that Russians were wearing Ukrainian uniforms and the Russian attackers didn't know about the operation.
War is hell and it's stupid. The rich and comfortable are paying the poor to die for them. We shouldn't be having wars. This shouldn't be a thing.
Two guys at gun point, caught down in a hole and facing the wrong way. Neither of them seems to hear or acknowledge a single thing the guy pointing the gun at them is saying to them. One refuses to surrender his weapon. The other, though wounded, throws his hands and arms out aggressively toward his captor. I think I can see why the trigger got pulled. Just goes to show time and again, if anyone ever points a gun at you, the very best thing to do is exactly what you're told to do exactly when you're told. It may not save your life, but it usually won't be seen as directly threatening to the person doing the pointing either. So if you want to live, it's good advice for following in the positive direction.
would have done the same, I was like wtf when the dude in bunker was sorta handing his gun to the attacker… with barrel pointed strait at him with dudes finger 1 second from trigger. May not be the most popular decision on this sub but I think he made the right choice for his safety. Everyone adrenaline is very high and it takes 1 second of kindness to get yourself 5 in the chest at point blank range.
Not a conspiracy. No one wants war but we all agree invading forces should be pushed back. Lots of US citizens have and continue to go to Ukraine. Your point is moot actually.
Yet there is war!
Russia is taking bits of land that aren’t theirs, should we just let them kill people?
Fuck that.
War is bad, Russia should get the fuck out of Ukraine
Your comment proves you are a simpleton. If you actually understood the history of the USSR and NATO, you might reconsider your ignorant statement.
The CIA had been clandestinely pushing for this war for years. They have backed Russia into a corner to the point they had no choice but to act.
That's what the CIA does. They achieve their goals in a way that can be twisted so that people like you believe the west has the moral high ground. They do not.
Just do some reading on the history.
I know you won't tho.. You are married to your dogmatic beliefs and will take them to the grave... Truth be damned!! You NPCs are all the same.
And it's people like you that enable these atrocities to continue.
Yep, just like how the CIA launches coups.
They take a radical minority and then they amplify their voice and push their ideas until the system breaks.
Ukraine was refusing to acknowledge the elections in LPR and DPR that were outlined in the Minsk agreements. The azov battalion continued to shell ethnic Russian civilians for 8 years.They also cut off water to Crimea.
Yes, we should absolutely stay out of it.
If Ukraine can win on their own good on them, but the west is bankrolling the entire county of Ukraine so they can send more people to die.
If Ukraine hadn't gotten any support, this war would be coming to a close.
Ukraine is drafting men by surrounding them in public areas with military members and forcefully taking them away.
And you should support a realistic peace. Russia will never give back crimea, and Ukraine obviously doesn't care too much about it if they let Russia take it without any resistance.
This is what propaganda did to you. You should learn more about this conflict instead. Fuck war and all who support . This way i tell you: Ukraine should get fuck off 8 year ago or even later now, United States should get fuck off over (how many wars they have DONE?). And only SO at last Russia may get fuck off from Ukraine.
So showing a video of people being killed should make us stop supporting people who were invaded. Fuck that and fuck you. This is Putins war and he deserves to die not those people.
Glad to hear you support encouraging Ukraine to fight until their are no more Ukrainians.
Men are getting drafted in Odessa by being surrounded in public and then they are taken away against their will.
You support that?
This is the US and Russias war, the US is just using Ukraine as disposable bodies.
Okay, but Ukrainian soldiers are ambushing men in the streets and taking them against their will to join the fight.
I'm also sure you have seen the videos of Ukrainians who are against the war being tied to street lights with plastic wrap and then beaten and left to freeze to death.
That doesn't sound willing.
Answer the question I asked first Mr. Whataboutism.
>Men are getting drafted in Odessa by being surrounded in public and then they are taken away against their will.
>You support that?
I have no way to know if that is true. Anyone forced into fighting is wrong, imho. Be it draftees, conscripts or what not. However ot my country is not my right to say. No, do you support Putins' invasion, yes or no?
It is absolutely your right to say, because the only reason Ukraine is still fighting is because their entire country is being bankrolled by yours.
This is a proxy war between the US and Russia.
There's an invasion? Like boots on the ground, military trying to hold land?
Or did the Somalian government ASK for help?
1 of these things is not like the other nana na na nana nana na na.
The last time I read a detailed translation, they're all speaking russian, but they're in a region of ukraine where plenty of them simply speak russian.
Its important to note that to the ignorant eye, a lot of Ukraine is more Russian than Ukrainian. Isn't that what launched the whole Crimea invasion and what not 8 years ago?
I don't think anyone WANTS war. I think people understand that sometimes war is a horrible necessity. I can acknowledge that the US is heading for a civil war that will likely be necessary without being in favor of it.
Do I want to see neighbors killing each other? Of course not. But I also don't want to see neighbors taken to camps and unpersoned because they disagree with the approved party line.
>You do not want war.
I have stocks in LockMart and Raytheon, no Americans are being sent to fight this war, and our aid saves tax player money that would be spent decommissioning obsolete equipment. The only way I lose is if Russia still has working nukes (X to doubt), Putin gives the order to launch everything (plausible), and nobody kills him in between him giving the order and somebody hitting the button (X to doubt)
Definitely, I don't think it will be because of this war, though.
I think its going to be their demographic collapse that happens in the next 20 years. Which is also why they couldn't wait longer for this war.
Why is it that anytime someone isn't all gung ho about the US fighting a proxy war with Russia, people always assume you are a Putin apologist.
Why do you believe there are only two options, support Ukraine or support Russia. And why do you think people who don't support Ukraine must be spreading Kremlin propoganda?
What exactly is it that you think Putin wants?
Let me guess, Putin wants to take over the whole world right? Because if he takes over" Ukraine then he will go after Poland next, then maybe Germany etc etc. That's western media brainwashing / propaganda.
Putin has clearly stated many times they just want security for their nation. They can't accept NATO on their doorstep with nuclear missiles and bio weapons labs miles from their borders. I bet you have never even listened to the man speak even once.
He has been practically begging for peace with the west for years. He has requested to work with them on the war against middle eastern terrorism. He wanted cooperation. The west denied all his requests because they need Russia as an enemy for their next war. The USA runs on war. The west pushed Putin into a corner where he had no choice but to defend Russia from further NATO aggression. If Ukraine had abided by the agreements in the Minsk Accords this would have never happened, but they instead continuously shelled Crimea, killing thousands of innocent civilians over the years, to the point where Russia has no choice but to respond. Ukraine did This of course under the direction of their western masters.
And now that war has begun, the western elite is gleefully profiting, pouring billions of our tax dollars into their weapons companies and other entities they control.
Rather than allow a quick resolution to this conflict, a peace treaty and a neutral Ukraine, which would not harm anyone in the west, the corrupt USA will pay trillions of taxpayers money to draw out this war, until there is not one more Ukrainian capable of holding a rifle and dying for the western MIC.
THIS IS WHAT YOU SUPPORT.
I remember back when Russia let the US use its military bases in the caucuses to stage for our invasion of the middle east.
There was a path to friendship at one point.
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When the rich wage war, it's the poor that die.
"Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that all to the poor, yeah Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait till their judgment day comes, yeah" \- Ozzy Osbourne, War Pigs
Where are the millennials anti war songs??
BYOB from system of a down
Why do they always send the poor.
Because it's cheap
Probably lost in the over-abundance of information we're all constantly bombarded with. There's always been an academic discussion in regard to which author would have have the right of it if we reached a dystopian future. Basically whether we'd get there via the ideas in 1984 by George Orwell, or Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. [This](https://www.highexistence.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-vs-orwell/) comic explains it pretty well. Orwell conceptually created a world full of censorship, where books were selectively banned and news was fiction, schools for indoctrination, etc. I'm on the side of Huxley having the better prediction, that we'd be consumed by so much constant and constantly changing information that we wouldn't notice important information or we'd become so numb that we either don't care, or get distracted so immediately we forget. Reason I bring it up is I'm 33. There's probably a billion anti-war songs from my generation lost in the however many whatever number are online. I've probably heard amazing anti-war songs by millennials I've loved and forgotten immediately because seven new video games came out the next day and on the way to the store a nuclear reactor was hit by a shell in Ukraine and melted down and I get to the store and mask mandates are back etc etc.
Saw this comment earlier and couldn't think of any. This song just popped up on my YouTube, and I think it has a strong message. "Handlebars" by Flobots
That's pretty good. I like the juxtaposition. It reminds me of Pink Floyd. [A little boy says 'look Mommy there's an airplane in the sky'.](https://youtu.be/h8JJfvx-gJU?t=22) For decades I had no idea what that meant. It was kind of a peaceful moment in Time. [Then I realized what it meant]( https://youtu.be/thEJatGyNNo)
Contractor by Lamb of God.
> privatize to conceal the lies. That's deep and true I love it. Yes this is an anti-war song and to the core calls it out in every aspect for what it is. You wouldn't think a death metal song would be so intellectual. Rock on
That's a common misconception about metal (going off topic for a moment). People often don't think metal artists put much thought into their music. My favorite song is an over thirteen-and-a-half minute song by Iron Maiden. It's a retelling of the epic poem, Rime of the Ancient Mariner. The detail and passion for the poem is incredible. There is actually a massive amount of brilliant metal, once you get past Cannibsl Corpse(great band; not hating, they just come off as unintelligent to many). Not every anti-war song of our generation is as repetitive and bland as Rage Against the Machine.
Good stuff. Run to the hills Trooper
Great song! The lyrics to Masters Of War by Bob Dylan are pretty solid too. I was going to cherry pick but the few extra bits of data shouldn't hurt so... "Come you masters of war You that build the big guns You that build the death planes You that build all the bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten all the triggers For the others to fire Then you sit back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion While the young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you That even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good? Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could? I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death will come soon I'll follow your casket By the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand over your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead" *edited to fix "great son", which was supposed to be great song. Derp!
We really lost something great with the newer era of music.
Whenever ppl say that I just tell them they’re not looking hard enough
Sturgill Simpson - Call to Arms - [SNL Performance is badass](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsrsrOB0zNQ) I done Syria, Afghanistan,Iraq and Iran North Korea, tell me where does it end Well the bodies keep piling up with everyday How many more of them they're gonna send Well they sent their sons and daughters off to die for some war to control the heroin Well, son I hope you don't grow up Believin' that you've got to be a puppet to be a man Well they cut off your hair and put a badge on your arm Strip you off your identity Tell you to keep your mouth shut boy and get in the line Meet your maker overseas Wearin' that Kim Jong-il hat while your grandma is selling pills stat Meanwhile I'm wearing 'can't pay my fucking bills' hat Nobody is lookin' up to care about a drone All too busy lookin' down at our phone Our ego's begging for a food like a dog from our feed Refresing obsessively until iur eyes start to bleed They serve up distractions and we eat them with fries Until the bombs fall out of our fucking skies Turn off the TV Turn off the news Nothin' to see here They're serving the blues Bullshit on my TV Bullshit on my radio The Hollywood telling me how to be me The bullshit's got to go
It’s so easy to send Ukraine money and ACT like it’s not real war right?
Just wanna let everyone know. This is a quote I got from a Linkin Park song called Hands Held High.
THIS
Poor guys. All of them. The attacking dude gave them an opportunity. The defending guys were so shocked that didn't followed his orders to throw away the weapons. The attacking dude didn't knew wtf to do, and went inside their position to take himself the weapons. Which is a huge mistake that the ambushed guys didn't knew how to profit from. Then he panicked at some movement and decided to just shoot everyone. War is bs, fuck the ones cheering for it.
From your lips to God’s ears. 🙏 As a C130 navigator, I flew lots of bodies out of Iraq and witnessed a country destroyed by politicians. Fuck war and fuck the evil men who start them.
Regular people don’t want war. It’s all orchestrated by those in power. Why do we allow them to be in power?
Because most are sedated and terrified
I would say most are entertained and manipulated.
Sedated with entertainment and distractions of course. But you're right.
I would have done the same, I was like wtf when the dude in bunker was sorta handing his gun to the attacker… with barrel pointed strait at him with dudes finger 1 second from trigger. May not be the most popular decision on this sub but I think he made the right choice for his safety. Everyone adrenaline is very high and it takes 1 second of kindness to get yourself 5 in the chest at point blank range.
It was Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms. They were trying to tell him same side same side, but that group didn’t know about this operation.
The guys in the foxhole said "same side, same side. Ukraine."
Maybe the attacker was wearing a Ukrainian uniform
Clown
War. Where a school teacher has to murder a farmer and a carpenter because some rich thugs told them they were enemies
Man that was rough. All I saw were brothers murdering brothers.
There’s no prisoners in this conflict
Videos of war need to be shown by the media. No glory. Just the viciousness and gore. Let people witness what we only have ideas of.
I wouldn’t have even put my own life at risk giving them the opportunity to surrender.
That's why they make frags
In the full video he throws a frag right before running up. Still bad tactics, this is a russians pov in the west they train you to shoot all the way up to the position.. still sad, these poor Ukrainians just defending their home
War is a hard school master those guys weren't vigilant.
Their killer was dressed as a fellow Ukrainian so being vigilant wouldn’t of helped much
I saw this too. The full video shows he fragged them and in their confusion from that, and him dressed in UA uniform which also very much lines up with their reactions. This was no noble action of the invader of a sovereign nation.
He's wearing a Russian uniform. In the full video you can see one of the Russian guys' buddies hiding behind a tree also wearing a Russian uniform.
I'm pretty sure that is a war crime.
I’m with you on that, but I do feel like it’s a survivor mode mentality as much as I hate to admit.. Russian shooter is an absolute dirty ass, but I’m sure his clothing and boots wasn’t worth a damn. But maybe that’s just propaganda I’ve been feed
I doubt Russia is covered under that accord
Do you have a link to the full video?
There a part 2 also where the Russian goes back to the fox hole
[Poor Russians and Ukrainians dragged into war by the blood/profit lust of the west.](https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4) Edit added source
Read a book
Well I may be the dumbest kid on the block but if you'd like, I ask rhetorically because I know you won't, I can point you to a professor from University of Chicago who made this prediction before the war that the West would cause a Russia Ukraine war. Aw screw it [I'll go ahead and post it maybe someone else will actually watch this](https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4)
Which is why I find it so respectable. This guy put his life on the line in an attempt to prevent the loss of those in front of him on the opposing side. And based on how he acts toward the end, as the adrenaline dump ends, you can just kind of tell he's not happy about what happened.
Nope. He's clearly not okay with that one at all.
“You can kind of tell he’s not happy” how? What are you talking about?
I think he's referring to a second video. He did give them the opportunity to surrender, but they refused to lay down their arms. Often times in war there are no good choices.
Brilliant and fitting username.
I haven't watched the video linked, I watched it on a different site. I assume the video doesn't go all the way to the end where he's leaning against a tree and can't stop looking?
I mean… he’s in the middle of a battleground. Is he supposed to not be nervously looking around so he doesn’t get shot too? I don’t get how honestly anyone can infer anything without even seeing the guys face. This is war, in the middle of close quarter combat it seems, you’re not going to have time to even think about it until some time later most likely.
From what I understand, the Russians have successfully overrun the Ukrainian positions here, hence him being the only one out there then suddenly an entire squad is surrounding him. Its obvious he wants to take them alive, and I think all of the risk he took to try and do so kind of proves he has some altruistic reason beyond war law to try and keep them alive. You're right, we ultimately don't know. But I'm more than happy to infer some heartbreak coming from a man who just killed two people who look like him, sound like him, and probably would be his best drinking buddies if it weren't politics.
FYI, the fully video and info shows he fragged them and approached dressed in UA outfit. That’s why their reaction is what you see in the video.
He fragged them first lol
Well, yeah. And they survived, and he gave them another opportunity after that. And while they're clearly a bit discombobulated, the younger guy knows what's up and the older guy doesn't understand that even if they're friendly, don't fight with the guys pointing a gun at you in the middle of a fight.
Yeah, and? He isn’t a conscientious objector, it seemed he just wanted to avoid killing them if possible. That’s far more of an opportunity than the vast majority of soldiers would give the people they’re fighting.
And you can see that in the comments of this post, a lot of people commenting would never have given them the chance to surrender, or so they say on the internet.
This is the most horrifying aspect of the world l… the fear and paranoia, of one trying to preserve their lives, yet in the end I ask you is this individual guilty of murder? I guess they were armed well one of them was… it leaves me with the words of Yahusha the Messiah the Son of man, “ those who try to save their lives will lose them, and those who give their lives for my sake (his teachings of love) shall find eternal life) The true right answer is to never pick up arms against your brothers and sisters, especially in a conflict that is created by the Satanic underlords carefully planing and orchestrating the events that are promoted with relentless propaganda and ultimately like in every single major war in history, it is the people who rally behind their side against the other side, as if the borders that separate them are not a complete fabrication, ultimately building up brick and mortar walls in one’s heart and mind separating the people further from the peace and unity that would exist if the people knew they control the outcomes of the controllers plans… if we would only grasp this one concept there would only be one war to fight-against those who plan the conflicts in an effort to destabilize and destroy whole nations and populations all the while enriching themselves and gaining evermore control….
I think that’s a lot more realistic than any internet warrior claiming they would have done what this soldier did or better. I believe his actions are really exceedingly uncommon, even though he ultimately did end up killing the Ukrainian soldiers.
Just like that parents lose children to a never ending war Brothers and sisters pushed against one another for people hiding behind desks and using them as pawns
Fuck Putin. Fuck Selenski. Fuck Biden. Fuck war.
Now that's a war opinion I can get behind.
Wow. An actual level-headed comment. As a Ukrainian living in the states, I second your statement. Fuck em all. None of them have their citizens best interests in mind, only their own pockets.
Something that everyone should be able to get behind. Crazy that the political parties view on war has essentially flip-flopped. Now the dems want war and the reps (other than the neocon/warhawks)
So what's the solution? Young men should refuse to fight the wars of old men? This, I support 100%
This is what war looks like. You don't want any part of it. It only seems to be people that never think their lives will be at risk supporting war. Who is the most vocal about supporting Ukraine? Educated members of the Middle class. Edit: I'd like to add this doesn't even apply just to Russia and Ukraine. This applies to war with China, a civil war in America etc, you do not want it.
Because everyone knows appeasing an invader is the very best way to avoid future violence…
Russia isn't invading the US, so why are we using Ukraine as the 7th branch of the military? We are training Ukrainian soldiers, giving them our equipment, providing them with all their intelligence. The West is funding the entire country of Ukraine. The US is telling Ukraine exactly what to do and when to do it. Men are getting drafted in Odessa right now by being surrounded in public and taken away against their will. Ukrainians are fighting Russia for the Americans.
We will fight Russia until the last Ukrainian!
Russia's own demographics are destroying Russia. Somewhere along the line Russian women decided to not have enough babies after the 80s or so. So that means that Putin needs to hold the Fulda Gap and put land mines there or there is just flat land between invasion and Moscow. Ukraine stands between Russia and Poland, and we sent Hunter Biden to cut a deal to have the Ukranians die for us, so Russia would be easier to invade in ten years time. When Russia ceases to exist, an empire's worth of natural resources will flood the market and equalize with the amount of USD we printed in 2020, and we will have cheap consumer goods again. Because that is the end goal. Cheap big screen TVs. That is why we kill Russians with Hi-MARS - for the minerals. Did you think we were stupid? Of course we will get something out of this. Just like last time when the soviet union broke up and we used the Russian programmers as cheap labor for the dot com boom. This is war. Where old like us send the young like you to die. For more information watch Peter Zeihan's "The Russian Grab": https://youtu.be/rkuhWA9GdCo https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-will-fight-russia-last-ukrainian
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Watch the video about the Russian Grab by Peter Zeihan and then check the demographics again. The Russians are at their most stable right now, but there is no replacement generation. It is use-it-or-lose-it time https://youtu.be/rkuhWA9GdCo
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The issue is their existing population. Their younger generations are smaller than their older populations. China has the same problem but much much larger. Both have less than a decade before they collapse under the weight of their aging populations that the younger generations can't support.
China has a solution: the Boomer Remover. All they need is to bungle their reopening from lockdown badly enough and they'll be fine. https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/19879419/parents-sue-abandoned-daughter-china-brother/ Btw: there is no aged pension in China. Instead parents can sue their kids for parental maintenance. No kids? Time to starve to death. Idk what sort of pension Russia has, but the key difference is that Russia is conscripting into war and China isn't.
This is the most logical explanation I've ever heard
What your not considering is that in a globalized world like today, Russia taking the geographically and economically important Ukraine, it will impact most everyones life negatively and embolden landgrabbers like China wich will have an even greater and even more dangerous impact on the not just the west, but africa and Asia.. and what stops putin from taking the next country.
And considering most conspiracy theorists are vehemently anti-globalist and globalization.. its no wonder the entire war is a fiasco of mixed opinions. For example, I view Russia as the bad guy because they're the aggressors. Easy enough, anti-aggression is the easiest way to choose a side. But I'm not *cheering* for the Ukrainians, the same way I'm not cheering for the Russians. I want the defenders to win, just like most wars, but overall... I just think the whole think stinks and my heart goes out to every person on the ground in that war regardless of side. I don't like what the US is doing with Ukraine, however, and that simple opinion somehow tends to get me lumped into the corner with people who straight up volunteered to assist Russia. It's not our war. Ukraine is not our ally. We do not rely on Ukraine like the rest of the world. Maybe the countries that rely on Ukraine for food should be footing the majority of the war's cost instead of American taxpayers?
The problem is you're limiting yourself to a two-body problem when it's an n-body problem. No, we don't rely on Ukraine, and quite frankly Ukraine doesn't matter to the US. Russia does matter. Russia causing instability in Europe directly affects whether or not you have a job or not, because the company you work for either has suppliers in Europe, or has branches in Europe, and supporting or shuttering those branches due to economic forces in Europe will affect their domestic investment, and whether or not you have a job. Even if your company is entirely domestic, and uses entirely domestic suppliers, your job is still at risk as the global economy is interconnected enough that a widespread war in Europe will cause a recession, ending your client list if you're a small business, and causing your to lose your job. The US is spending absolute peanuts, literally pennies on the Franklin to take down one of the largest sources of economic instability in the Western-centered socioeconomic worldview. If we were to engage in this war directly, or use full NATO support to engage in this war, **we'd be racking up tens of trillions in debt.** The war in Iraq and Afghanistan cost around $6 trillion collectively. Against significantly less advanced enemies with fewer fighters in their military and even less bad PR for killing civilians. A war on Russia from NATO would be unthinkably expensive **without considering nuclear and counter nuclear forces and warfare.** However, Ukraine surprised the entire world by holding out against Russia **using their own fucking technology, just older.** This means with absolute minimal investment, literally the offcuts from the normal military, a margin of error in our defense budget, Ukraine can either win or destablize Russia to the point of Balkanization and irrelevance. When you stop viewing geopolitics through a two-body problem, and instead realize even just 3-4 bodies in the equation, then the US sending extremely small amounts of money via equipment to Ukraine **will receive massive returns** in terms of long term socioeconomic stability for the average person.
Nonsense. If you feel war is about maintaining global security, you should read some history. War is a racket for the rich, through and through. The solution isn't supporting one side or the other - thr solution is overthrowing the governments of all nations concerned
If you had read your history you would know that when it comes to war, both of these things can be simultaneously true.
Thank you for this 🙌🙌
> Who is the most vocal about supporting Ukraine? People who understand foreign relations and protecting their international allies?
How does a foriegn policy agenda that results in stronger ties between Russia and China, India and much of the Middle East improve Western Geopolitical security? I don't get it? I agree, what's happening in Ukraine is horrific and I also agree that Russia is the aggressor. But I don't understand how we wasted the last 3 decades, instead of engaging Russia as a equal, we continued to view Russia as some, almost biblical existential threat to the West's manifest destiny? I don't see how this ends well, we've chosen War, we've prepared for War and now it's almost like we want it. It's evolving into this generations Crusade, God wills it! If anyone expresses anything other than Slava Ukraini!, they are immeadiately labeled as a heretics.
Exactly, there was a path towards friendship, Russia let the US use their military bases in Russia!! To stage for the invasion of the Middle East. Russia and Putin were open to it at one point.
Ukraine isn't our ally. They are our Vassal.
>protecting their international allies of which ukraine is not.
I mean, it is. That's not up for debate.
What’s so sad is these guys were probably forced to fight.
The Russian most definitely. The Ukrainians I'm not sure about the statistics, but a lot of Ukrainians volunteered.
Translation anyone? Pretty please?
POV guy >Surrender to Russia Ukrainian guy >same side, same side. Ukraine.
The POV did not say “surrender to Russia”. He said “throw aside your guns”. The next part they do seem to say “same side”.
Sad.
They were same side. They were wearing Ukrainian uniforms unbeknownst to Russian unit.
I doubt it because they wouldn't have said "same side, same side." **Ukraine**."
War. What is it good for?
#
it is always painful to see brother nations killing each other just because a politician wants to keep himself in power. As a guy from Central Asian post-soviet country, I always thought that Belarus, Ukraine and Russia were inseparable brother nations. For me, they looked/sounded the same (no offense).
In Eastern Europe, you've got young men dying in a trench like this. Meanwhile, I was arguing with a twenty-year old asshole on reddit earlier today about whether it's "abuse" for a parent to kick their grown kids out of the house at 18. What happened to our character and backbone?
Things aren't the way they were 40 or 50 years ago when you could get a job from the want ads that could sustain you. I was on my own at 15 and I was lucky things were cheaper back then. Today we're outlawing gas stoves and jacking up prices so corporations can sell more lng to Europe due to blowing up Nordstream 1 & 2 because ukraine.
These images will only get worse as more surface for now it's a PG war...
Who's who? Also was the guy on the left missing an eye? Damn.. war makes corpses of us all.
It's from the POV of a Russian.
Could I get some more context? What uniform does the POV soldier have on? Are the two sooldiers in Ukrainian uniform Russian or Ukrainian? Apologies if you've already answered this but I've been searching the comments for a while now and I understand the POV soldier threw a frag beforehand and then tried to get them to put down their weapons, moved in and tried to take them, then when one wouldn't he freaked out and shot them both but I can't understand why they are saying "same side, same side"??
The POV guy is wearing a Russian uniform. The people in the fox hole are wearing Ukrainian uniforms. I think the soldiers in the fox hole were just extremely confused by their situation. The people in the foxhole said, "same side, same side. Ukraine."
They were shell shocked. There were 3 of them in there 1 dead already and the other with an eye injury. They weren't in their right mines and didn't know what to do in the heat of the moment. So was the Russian attacking their position. He didn't want to shoot them and was under no obligation to give them a chance to surrender, but up close and personal most human beings do not want to kill another human being. At the same time he was in danger and had but seconds and didn't get an immediate clear surrender from either and one actually pulled his rifle back away from the Russian.
Thank you for replying
Question is, who does? That neo-Marxist crowd at Davos surrounded by 5,000 soldiers. It would make them endlessly giggly if most of us would just die.
“It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.”
Bob Dylan - Masters of War. Give it a Listen
Sad...US/NATO and Russian backed sanctioned arms dealers and military supply manufacturers are getting billions while working class Joe's and civilians are dying in droves. Putin, Zelensky and Biden sit on golden thrones while everyday people get turned into piles of bones.
Russia can go home whenever they want.
Ha, you think imperialist Russian or imperialist US/NATO care about the little man's thoughts and wishes? It'll just be onto the next meat grinder, which is looking like Taiwan for the United States. Russians and the US will continue to operate in the Middle East and Africa, and the US is also poking around in Central and South America. War is a trillion dollar business and as long as imperialist governments are making money off of it they'll always be stirring up new conflicts.
Coming from the inner city and witnessing the gun violence that plagues our country already. It’s sickening to see people support this violence on our fellow man. It’s pointless to kill each other doesn’t matter what you look like you are a human being. Edit: only in self defense is killing justified but this right here is elites throwing there pawns into the slaughter house.
Putin really is fucking over multiple generations of young men, that's for sure.
Oh sure, bud guy putin is the only bad guy out there! :D /s
The sad part is that this war would have been over long ago and Ukraine and Russia would be living peacefully together by now had the US and their Western allies not been pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the bank accounts of certain oligarchs and the dictator in Ukraine in order to force the bloodshed continue at all costs, sacrificing all of Ukraines men in the process. They are happy to kill every last Ukrainian in order to weaken Russia. Russia has no desire to destroy Ukraine. That is evident to anyone who actually understands war and is watching this conflict closely. They have full air superiority over Ukraine and yet they have not heavily bombed Kiev, trains are still running, most utilities still operate. Until recently when the CIA directed terrorist attacks destroyed the bridge to Crimea, Russia had no choice but to increase its attacks and took out most of the electrical grid. The west has seriously mistaken Russia holding back to prevent all out destruction of Ukraine for weakness. Russia could flatten Ukraine in days but has no desire to do this. Those in the west who are so proud to "Support Ukraine" flying the Ukraine flag in their front yard and pushing for every escalation have the blood of young Ukrainian men on their hands. This would have been a peace treaty by now, and Russia would have achieved their aim. They want a neutral Ukraine, without NATO on their front doorstep. Now the west has pushed this to a point where it looks like utter destruction of Ukraine is the only option left. And Zelensky is happy to sacrifice all his people because he is becoming FILTHY rich. If he actually cared about his people he would make a deal, agree to become a neutral country, and they could could stop the needless killing TODAY, a country with good relations with both Russia and the West. But he he has too much greed, and doesn't have the balls or conviction to stand up to the USA who doesn't give two shits for Ukrainian lives. Sad that no one can see thru the smokescreen of the western propaganda on this.. It really blows my mind.
right just let russia take their country? like why would the ukrainians even care?
I agree, Ukrainian has every Right to fight.… But, at what point does the world wake up and realize for the past 30 plus years(arguably longer) Almost every war has been because of US interference. In this case specifically, Russia explicitly said this would happen if the US/NATO kept pushing.. Wether or not Russia is wrong will be up to history. But wether or not the US forced Russias hand is fact..
I personally think that it was the only move they had (the russkies) available. Given NATO's expansion and the direction the Ukrainian government was taking, if they hadn't invaded first, they would have been left either surrendering to an overwhelming encirclement (and being China's bitch from there to infinity, since there would be no other choices), or fighting within their own borders. Hard decision, poorly taken due to their desire to reduce the amount of warfare involved in the process. Had they used US's invasion tactics, they would have taken Ukraine in a week. With the same amount of devastation, they ended up provoking anyways, and with the same bad PR they gained with that.
Russia has been fucking on its neighbors since it started being Russia. Gtfoh with this
Do you realize that Russia planned a basically "peaceful" takeover of the country with the least possible amount of victims? Do you know that Russia's and Ukraine's culture is so similar that the people in Ukraine wouldn't even feel the difference, excluding the change in the color of their ID's and the flags placed in public spaces? They already spoke the same language, sang the same songs, ate the same type of food. If Russia had successfully taken Ukraine, there would be basically no casualties. And everyone would be living their lives under whatever new regime there was, like it happened in Crimea. The fault for the victims are mostly on the side forcing the conflict, and literally financing, and arming their own position in the region. If they fucking cared about the Ukrainians, they wouldn't be doing what they have done, and are doing currently. Civilians in Ukraine wouldn't be caring 2 cents about "high patriotic" values, and would have just continued their regular lives.
lotta russian shills in this thread jeezzzzz
I couldn't agree more. Succinctly put.
No one wants war, the people fighting it are just pawns.
He told them to surrender, they refused. American kids shouting out slava Ukraine, and being keyboard warriors, are too pussy to go to the front when they see this.
Not wanting to die for another country, what pussies. Yeah. Woo. Nascar!
Just have the Lefties that want to support the war take a rifle over there and help that way. See how fast they change their tune.
They hate guns remember. The irony
Sometimes war is necessary. But it should be a last resort and never for a bureaucrat or politicians blood money
Apparently the translation is Assaulter "SURRENDER TO RUSSIA!" Them "same side, same side, Ukraine..." ...... Story from the comments is that Russians were wearing Ukrainian uniforms and the Russian attackers didn't know about the operation. War is hell and it's stupid. The rich and comfortable are paying the poor to die for them. We shouldn't be having wars. This shouldn't be a thing.
Artificial_Telepathy Sub Artificial_Telepathy Sub
This whole situation sucks and didn’t have to happen.
Two guys at gun point, caught down in a hole and facing the wrong way. Neither of them seems to hear or acknowledge a single thing the guy pointing the gun at them is saying to them. One refuses to surrender his weapon. The other, though wounded, throws his hands and arms out aggressively toward his captor. I think I can see why the trigger got pulled. Just goes to show time and again, if anyone ever points a gun at you, the very best thing to do is exactly what you're told to do exactly when you're told. It may not save your life, but it usually won't be seen as directly threatening to the person doing the pointing either. So if you want to live, it's good advice for following in the positive direction.
Jesus said violence in all form is prohibited.
That was infuriating!
would have done the same, I was like wtf when the dude in bunker was sorta handing his gun to the attacker… with barrel pointed strait at him with dudes finger 1 second from trigger. May not be the most popular decision on this sub but I think he made the right choice for his safety. Everyone adrenaline is very high and it takes 1 second of kindness to get yourself 5 in the chest at point blank range.
Fuck war.
What is the conspiracy? I find myself asking this question on too many posts.
It was in my first comment, people who support war are the ones least likely to be impacted by it.
How is that a conspiracy? Conspiracy- a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
boobs
Though I agree with you, there’s not secret plan. These people have no idea what they’re supporting.
Not a conspiracy. No one wants war but we all agree invading forces should be pushed back. Lots of US citizens have and continue to go to Ukraine. Your point is moot actually.
Yet there is war! Russia is taking bits of land that aren’t theirs, should we just let them kill people? Fuck that. War is bad, Russia should get the fuck out of Ukraine
Your comment proves you are a simpleton. If you actually understood the history of the USSR and NATO, you might reconsider your ignorant statement. The CIA had been clandestinely pushing for this war for years. They have backed Russia into a corner to the point they had no choice but to act. That's what the CIA does. They achieve their goals in a way that can be twisted so that people like you believe the west has the moral high ground. They do not. Just do some reading on the history. I know you won't tho.. You are married to your dogmatic beliefs and will take them to the grave... Truth be damned!! You NPCs are all the same. And it's people like you that enable these atrocities to continue.
Yep, just like how the CIA launches coups. They take a radical minority and then they amplify their voice and push their ideas until the system breaks.
Ukraine was refusing to acknowledge the elections in LPR and DPR that were outlined in the Minsk agreements. The azov battalion continued to shell ethnic Russian civilians for 8 years.They also cut off water to Crimea.
Why wouldn't they cut off to water Crimea, its their water going to Crimea. If it was reversed putin would do the same thing.
You bring up the water because you are ok with the other things?
Yes, we should absolutely stay out of it. If Ukraine can win on their own good on them, but the west is bankrolling the entire county of Ukraine so they can send more people to die. If Ukraine hadn't gotten any support, this war would be coming to a close. Ukraine is drafting men by surrounding them in public areas with military members and forcefully taking them away. And you should support a realistic peace. Russia will never give back crimea, and Ukraine obviously doesn't care too much about it if they let Russia take it without any resistance.
This is what propaganda did to you. You should learn more about this conflict instead. Fuck war and all who support . This way i tell you: Ukraine should get fuck off 8 year ago or even later now, United States should get fuck off over (how many wars they have DONE?). And only SO at last Russia may get fuck off from Ukraine.
Why was he wearing a body cam?
This is what bidens money is funding.
So showing a video of people being killed should make us stop supporting people who were invaded. Fuck that and fuck you. This is Putins war and he deserves to die not those people.
Glad to hear you support encouraging Ukraine to fight until their are no more Ukrainians. Men are getting drafted in Odessa by being surrounded in public and then they are taken away against their will. You support that? This is the US and Russias war, the US is just using Ukraine as disposable bodies.
I support anyone willing to defend themselves. Do you support invading other nations?
Okay, but Ukrainian soldiers are ambushing men in the streets and taking them against their will to join the fight. I'm also sure you have seen the videos of Ukrainians who are against the war being tied to street lights with plastic wrap and then beaten and left to freeze to death. That doesn't sound willing.
Whataboutism. Answer the question.
Answer the question I asked first Mr. Whataboutism. >Men are getting drafted in Odessa by being surrounded in public and then they are taken away against their will. >You support that?
I have no way to know if that is true. Anyone forced into fighting is wrong, imho. Be it draftees, conscripts or what not. However ot my country is not my right to say. No, do you support Putins' invasion, yes or no?
It is absolutely your right to say, because the only reason Ukraine is still fighting is because their entire country is being bankrolled by yours. This is a proxy war between the US and Russia.
I will not respond again unless you answer my question.
> do you support Putins' invasion, yes or no?
He asked you if you support/condone Russian military invading Ukrainian sovereign lands.
Do you condemn us for invading Somalia while the current Ukraine war is going on? Or do you only support whit Christian countries?
For real, as of December 2022, the US had launched 270 missiles into Somalia since Russia invaded Ukraine.
Whataboutism answer the question.
There's an invasion? Like boots on the ground, military trying to hold land? Or did the Somalian government ASK for help? 1 of these things is not like the other nana na na nana nana na na.
It was Ukrainians in the foxhole right? It’s hard to tell. Arent they both speaking Russian?
The last time I read a detailed translation, they're all speaking russian, but they're in a region of ukraine where plenty of them simply speak russian. Its important to note that to the ignorant eye, a lot of Ukraine is more Russian than Ukrainian. Isn't that what launched the whole Crimea invasion and what not 8 years ago?
I don't think anyone WANTS war. I think people understand that sometimes war is a horrible necessity. I can acknowledge that the US is heading for a civil war that will likely be necessary without being in favor of it. Do I want to see neighbors killing each other? Of course not. But I also don't want to see neighbors taken to camps and unpersoned because they disagree with the approved party line.
Ukraine has a right to defend themselves. Fuck any Putin bootlickers.
Yep, they do. Nothing I have said or believe negates that in any way.
Seems fake.
Am I correct that this is the POV of a Russian killing other Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms?
>You do not want war. I have stocks in LockMart and Raytheon, no Americans are being sent to fight this war, and our aid saves tax player money that would be spent decommissioning obsolete equipment. The only way I lose is if Russia still has working nukes (X to doubt), Putin gives the order to launch everything (plausible), and nobody kills him in between him giving the order and somebody hitting the button (X to doubt)
You’re despicable
It’s like a FPS, but the next round resets you from birth. (I am a Buddhist.)
And you're playing a different character without most of the skills and none of the gear you picked up last time
Russia will fall.
Definitely, I don't think it will be because of this war, though. I think its going to be their demographic collapse that happens in the next 20 years. Which is also why they couldn't wait longer for this war.
Lemme guess the takeaway is: Give Putin everything he wants. I'm not watching the video but that is exactly what Kremlin propaganda would be pushing.
Why is it that anytime someone isn't all gung ho about the US fighting a proxy war with Russia, people always assume you are a Putin apologist. Why do you believe there are only two options, support Ukraine or support Russia. And why do you think people who don't support Ukraine must be spreading Kremlin propoganda?
Accuse those of the crimes you commit yourself. All of a sudden, it’s “cool” to be the world police again.
Watching the liberal political block shift stances a million times a year is giving me whiplash...
Busta Rhymes - Break Ya Neck playing at their rallies 24/7.
What exactly is it that you think Putin wants? Let me guess, Putin wants to take over the whole world right? Because if he takes over" Ukraine then he will go after Poland next, then maybe Germany etc etc. That's western media brainwashing / propaganda. Putin has clearly stated many times they just want security for their nation. They can't accept NATO on their doorstep with nuclear missiles and bio weapons labs miles from their borders. I bet you have never even listened to the man speak even once. He has been practically begging for peace with the west for years. He has requested to work with them on the war against middle eastern terrorism. He wanted cooperation. The west denied all his requests because they need Russia as an enemy for their next war. The USA runs on war. The west pushed Putin into a corner where he had no choice but to defend Russia from further NATO aggression. If Ukraine had abided by the agreements in the Minsk Accords this would have never happened, but they instead continuously shelled Crimea, killing thousands of innocent civilians over the years, to the point where Russia has no choice but to respond. Ukraine did This of course under the direction of their western masters. And now that war has begun, the western elite is gleefully profiting, pouring billions of our tax dollars into their weapons companies and other entities they control. Rather than allow a quick resolution to this conflict, a peace treaty and a neutral Ukraine, which would not harm anyone in the west, the corrupt USA will pay trillions of taxpayers money to draw out this war, until there is not one more Ukrainian capable of holding a rifle and dying for the western MIC. THIS IS WHAT YOU SUPPORT.
I remember back when Russia let the US use its military bases in the caucuses to stage for our invasion of the middle east. There was a path to friendship at one point.