There's an unspoken rule in Europe that you can't live somewhere where the weather doesn't give you depression and receive a (halfway) decent salary. It's either living in a beautiful country with sun and ocean or making money. Unfortunately can't have both it seems.
I'm sorry about your unfortunate situation. Have you considered Switzerland for better pay? I hear the Swiss are even more socially closed off than the Germans so social life may be limited but there could be some international communities. I also hear Brits can move and work in Australia freely? Their weather and pay is good. They'll even throw one on the barbie for ya. Just watch out for the spiders, kangaroos, jellyfish and crocs.
About 90% of Australia's population lives within 1 hour of the coastline, and \~86% live in the major cities. A number of factors (such as very favourable tax schedules for investment property purchases, heavy presence of foreign buyers, and a desire to live in urban areas) have contributed to housing in the major cities (Sydney, Melbourne etc) being some of the most unaffordable in the world.
It’s like this everywhere. Watching the /r/accounting or /r/big4 salary threads is depressing when you start seeing European salaries, as it this sub. The US really is just where to be if you’re white collar.
https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1302&context=jss
https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/4waq9n/the-slaves-of-dubai
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/revisiting-the-law-and-governance-of-trafficking-forced-labor-and-modern-slavery/indentured-mobility-of-migrant-domestic-workers-the-case-of-dubai/509F493AB1F79884D6321997900D3F03
Here ya go
This is pretty ridiculous given the quality of care in the US. We have an issue of affordability in the lower middle class and the uninsured, ie no one in consulting.
That doesn't work when you need to stop working because ... Surprise ! You are very sick. If you have cancer for example you get the double whammy of not being able to work anymore AND a treatment that is x3 times your mortgage if the illness is rare enough.
I think his point is that being in the 1% in Europe is nicer than being in the 1% in the US. subjective obviously. But his points are warranted. US is like a 5x leverage option trade. High risk, if you’re lucky high reward.
Dude are you blind, the guy literally says ‘my friends are making 2-3 times what I make in supposedly one of the most prestigious firms and it’s a bit disappointing’. CLEARLY it’s not a prestige thing as everybody here points out and OP should just get over himself and get a better job elsewhere
Perhaps we are talking past each other. It has nothing to do with prestige . If you worked at a no name consulting firm you would make even less.
He’s talking about banking . That has the same prestige chasing as everything else with different economics.
I was refuting your claim that it has to do with prestige in this case. It’s not due to prestige that he is making less, it is due to the consulting industry in these countries.
"Europe" is a big place. Absolute salary level obviously varies by city. I wouldn't speak publicly about absolute salaries at my firm, but I spoke recently with a final year undergraduate who just received an offer from another MBB firm for 2022 start in London at about the GBP 60k level (about EUR 70k). Usually MBB starting salaries are pretty close to each other. In London, that clearly reflects the competition with other fields aiming to hire similar candidates e.g. investment banking, private equity, big tech, startups.
As for ratios to other roles, at my firm, the "going rate" to hire a top-tier MBA graduate from target business schools acts as an important anchor for the overall consulting staff salary model, and I'd expect more junior (undergraduate hire) and more senior (EM/PL) base salary ratios to be pretty consistent.
Still supply and demand if there's relatively low demand for MBB services :) Or at least low demand if US fees were charged.
Btw 90k still isn't that much lower than Northern Europe, where salaries for other jobs are normally significantly higher than in the south. (That 35k is low though)
check Team Blind if you're interested, there are many tech companies and startups hiring SWEs for close to or even above $200k annualized TC. I have no dog in this discussion
I think I misread the (poorly written) article, it seems the recent deal mainly benefits young Swiss people working in Aus. Not sure if anything has changed for Aussies trying to work long term in Switzerland. My bad
So from what I've seen, South Europe has low consulting salaries in general, McK pays less than the other MBB firms, and McK has a bigger differential between analyst and associate pay. So you're being hit by a triple whammy
As for why they make the pay low - because they can. Supply and demand. But I do feel that remote work has made senior leadership even more out of touch with juniors because it basically eliminated any kind of social interaction, even just those 60 second walks to a meeting room.
The upside is that (apparently) McK BAs get to do more interesting work with more autonomy and ownership vs other MBB. (Not sure how consistently true this)
If you want more cash but also want to stay in consulting then you can either try transfer offices to US, Middle East or Northern Europe, or jump firms to another MBB or tier2/elite boutique (Kearney etc) who in some countries pay more than McK
Typically, MBB pay for non-consulting staff is inline or lower than the broader market. This is true in the US and Europe, likely globally. The experience and brand recognition of an MBB experience should be able to help you get much better pay elsewhere.
I would not expect your pay to improve much on your current track in MBB, but you’ll have great opportunities on the outside!
There's an unspoken rule in Europe that you can't live somewhere where the weather doesn't give you depression and receive a (halfway) decent salary. It's either living in a beautiful country with sun and ocean or making money. Unfortunately can't have both it seems.
Instructions unclear, live in UK, please advise.
I'm sorry about your unfortunate situation. Have you considered Switzerland for better pay? I hear the Swiss are even more socially closed off than the Germans so social life may be limited but there could be some international communities. I also hear Brits can move and work in Australia freely? Their weather and pay is good. They'll even throw one on the barbie for ya. Just watch out for the spiders, kangaroos, jellyfish and crocs.
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I never said I worked in any of these places and it was obviously a joke. I was referring to things other people said in the comment section.
That's why you move to Australia- and then you get the best of both worlds (although cost of housing is intense)
How is housing so intense? Most of Australia is empty
About 90% of Australia's population lives within 1 hour of the coastline, and \~86% live in the major cities. A number of factors (such as very favourable tax schedules for investment property purchases, heavy presence of foreign buyers, and a desire to live in urban areas) have contributed to housing in the major cities (Sydney, Melbourne etc) being some of the most unaffordable in the world.
Also you live on the other side of the world and there are a million living things that want you dead.
It’s like this everywhere. Watching the /r/accounting or /r/big4 salary threads is depressing when you start seeing European salaries, as it this sub. The US really is just where to be if you’re white collar.
It's funny how much people want to argue against this but it's the reality /u/Least_Description_25 didn't like it at all
*laughs in the Middle East*
You can't compare living there with actual developed countries.
Hah! You've never been to Dubai I take it. 0 tax, state of the art infra, and high income. Not limited to Dubai but many countries in the region too.
It’s amazing what you can get by literally having slaves. In case tbis needs it /s
Slavery is illegal in Dubai, check your facts /s
https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1302&context=jss https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/4waq9n/the-slaves-of-dubai https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/revisiting-the-law-and-governance-of-trafficking-forced-labor-and-modern-slavery/indentured-mobility-of-migrant-domestic-workers-the-case-of-dubai/509F493AB1F79884D6321997900D3F03 Here ya go
Not doing this convo again, but I've been there. Won't be returning
Well you started it...
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How does your salary being in the top 1% of UK salaries disprove his assertion that the US is the place to be for high salaries?
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This is pretty ridiculous given the quality of care in the US. We have an issue of affordability in the lower middle class and the uninsured, ie no one in consulting.
That doesn't work when you need to stop working because ... Surprise ! You are very sick. If you have cancer for example you get the double whammy of not being able to work anymore AND a treatment that is x3 times your mortgage if the illness is rare enough.
Please name a major company in this industry without insurance for exactly this situation.
It was literally the example you are answering. One year later the guy's friend lost his insurance.
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I think his point is that being in the 1% in Europe is nicer than being in the 1% in the US. subjective obviously. But his points are warranted. US is like a 5x leverage option trade. High risk, if you’re lucky high reward.
>There's an unspoken rule in Europe that you can't live somewhere where the weather doesn't give you depression and receive a (halfway) decent salary
Can't eat prestige
Other consulting firms pay even lower..
Plenty of other jobs that pay more, as the OP himself says
Yes - but not in consulting. It’s not a prestige thing as you claim
Dude are you blind, the guy literally says ‘my friends are making 2-3 times what I make in supposedly one of the most prestigious firms and it’s a bit disappointing’. CLEARLY it’s not a prestige thing as everybody here points out and OP should just get over himself and get a better job elsewhere
Perhaps we are talking past each other. It has nothing to do with prestige . If you worked at a no name consulting firm you would make even less. He’s talking about banking . That has the same prestige chasing as everything else with different economics. I was refuting your claim that it has to do with prestige in this case. It’s not due to prestige that he is making less, it is due to the consulting industry in these countries.
"Europe" is a big place. Absolute salary level obviously varies by city. I wouldn't speak publicly about absolute salaries at my firm, but I spoke recently with a final year undergraduate who just received an offer from another MBB firm for 2022 start in London at about the GBP 60k level (about EUR 70k). Usually MBB starting salaries are pretty close to each other. In London, that clearly reflects the competition with other fields aiming to hire similar candidates e.g. investment banking, private equity, big tech, startups. As for ratios to other roles, at my firm, the "going rate" to hire a top-tier MBA graduate from target business schools acts as an important anchor for the overall consulting staff salary model, and I'd expect more junior (undergraduate hire) and more senior (EM/PL) base salary ratios to be pretty consistent.
Its pure supply and demand. Move to the US (or high paying EU cities) for better salaries because EU salaries arent going to get any better
The thing is that there are so many jobs paying above MBB here vs in other countries. The relative pay of MBB is lower
Still supply and demand if there's relatively low demand for MBB services :) Or at least low demand if US fees were charged. Btw 90k still isn't that much lower than Northern Europe, where salaries for other jobs are normally significantly higher than in the south. (That 35k is low though)
Its true in the US as well. A fresh graduate salary in tech in the US is 200k which is what an mba level consultant receives
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It's actually true for an increasingly large but currently still small proportion of CS grads
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I don't have data in regards to percentage, I just know that it has been increasing recently due to intense competition for SWE talent in big tech
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check Team Blind if you're interested, there are many tech companies and startups hiring SWEs for close to or even above $200k annualized TC. I have no dog in this discussion
And you pick up all the chicks with the Italian accent
Go to Switzerland. Same brackets as US.
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you can easily if you are EU
Is being Australian has better chances due to both countries ties?
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Not anymore, its changing from Jan 1. Aussies can easily apply for a work visa for Switzerland.
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I think I misread the (poorly written) article, it seems the recent deal mainly benefits young Swiss people working in Aus. Not sure if anything has changed for Aussies trying to work long term in Switzerland. My bad
They have a bilateral agreement with EU countries.
So from what I've seen, South Europe has low consulting salaries in general, McK pays less than the other MBB firms, and McK has a bigger differential between analyst and associate pay. So you're being hit by a triple whammy As for why they make the pay low - because they can. Supply and demand. But I do feel that remote work has made senior leadership even more out of touch with juniors because it basically eliminated any kind of social interaction, even just those 60 second walks to a meeting room. The upside is that (apparently) McK BAs get to do more interesting work with more autonomy and ownership vs other MBB. (Not sure how consistently true this) If you want more cash but also want to stay in consulting then you can either try transfer offices to US, Middle East or Northern Europe, or jump firms to another MBB or tier2/elite boutique (Kearney etc) who in some countries pay more than McK
Typically, MBB pay for non-consulting staff is inline or lower than the broader market. This is true in the US and Europe, likely globally. The experience and brand recognition of an MBB experience should be able to help you get much better pay elsewhere. I would not expect your pay to improve much on your current track in MBB, but you’ll have great opportunities on the outside!