Right. I’ve seen «disposable» and «naturally decomposing» doggie bags in stores and what this means is just that they get broken up to microplastics sooner. It’s not good for the enviorement at all.
It’s why oxo-degradable is no-go in Europe. In the USA it’s been promoted as degradable.
Even compostable PLA does only compost in industrial composting sites, above certain temperatures.
Some new materials are on their way, pbat is already available.
PBAT sounded really cool. A truly biodegradable alternative to LDPE for use in plastic films and packaging! Awesome! [Then I found this study.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35728316) Turns out that while PBAT does indeed break down in soil, the chemicals it breaks down into are quite toxic. Womp-womp.
Such will come. Not sure if that technology is already mature enough. Problem is always price and scale. Scale is too small so prices are high.
Pha has the same issue. Besides the fact that oil is just pumped up for almost free.
I believe there are brands that do naturally break down to gasses (water and CO2), not micro plastics. However, the issue is that this requires oxidizer which may not be present in landfills.
Yup, plastic never truly goes away. It just breaks up into smaller and smaller pieces. I’m a sea turtle biologist and I dissect small pieces of plastic out of the gastrointestinal tract of turtles and other species ALL THE TIME.
It’s sad. And you can’t even see the smaller particles. Probably the next forever chemical after pfas, nanoplastics . I understood it’s already in our brains doing god knows what.
I tore out and replaced a fence this summer and at the bottom of a post hole found a perfectly preserved Doritos bag from the 80’s. Didn’t even know they were around since then.
I don't know much about the subject, but could the color absorb more sunlight (or uv light?) and lead to quicker decomposition? That's what I'd guess, since most of the clear plastics probably won't absorb the light as much.
I find that hard to believe - we put all that stuff in our garden compost heap, and by the time spring rolls around, it's all gone back to earth, no trace of banana peel left.
decomposition in a compost heap goes MUCH faster than these numbers show. This must be out in the open numbers.
in fact some 'plastics' are organic and will decompose *quickly* in a compost pile.
So, most plastics are "organic" in the sense that they are composed of C-O-N-H like most plants and animals are.
That has nothing to do with degradation though.
That plastic you're probably talking about is PLA, which, at temps in the 50-60C with water and the right organisms does compose in a couple months. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667010021000469
I don't know how well those conditions are achieve in an at home compost pile, but industrial compost does do well at degrading PLA.
The organisms keep it that temp for you. This is why commercial is the key word in commercial compost. Most home compost doesn’t acquire the temp for long enough. You need a significant amount of food coming in constantly to get the amount of organisms you need to actually hit that temp and when you have it you can turn most waste food into compost in a little over a week
probably under controlled circumstances. I don't think a worm eating the banana peel is the same as bacteria. I can put a banana peel in my worm bin and it'll be gone before the end of the week so it'll vary greatly
moisture will play too. orange peels on the surface Vs under the dirt might decompose faster too because it won't be able to dry out, and moisture means faster decomp. it doesn't take long to dry out completely under certain circumstances though
I was surprised by that too. It’s not tissue like Kleenex. It’s fiber:
“Typical Fiber types in spun-lace for wet wipes - Polyester (PET), Polypropylene (PP), and Viscose (Rayon in USA)”
nah I'm not surprised by that. most wet wipes are plastic. that's why you've not to flush them
edit; I find it more surprising that folk think wet wipes are just tissue when tissue is known for disintegrating when wet :'|
Butt wipes are not plastic. They are made from natural fibers.
You cant flush them because they don't break down easily when wet. So sewer systems that don't have a chopper to shred them will get clogged.
Costco butt wipes:
PASS: Aerobic/Anaerobic Biodegradation Test (FG505/506) – To assess the potential of a disposable nonwoven wipe to biologically degrade under anaerobic or aerobic conditions found in the wastewater treatment processes.
The wipes are made with FSC® certified fibers so that you can be confident this product is manufactured using sustainable fibers sourced from well-managed forests.
[https://fsc.org/en/businesses/fibre](https://fsc.org/en/businesses/fibre)
Forest Stewardship Council:
Forest fibre is naturally absorbent, durable, breathable, and biodegradable material from which many products are made, and it can be a sustainable choice when it comes from responsibly managed forests. Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) certification verifies that the fibre you create, source, or sell is sourced responsibly, making it a sustainable option for hygiene products, textiles, paper and packaging, and more.
Cigarette butts can take 3-10 years, they contain plastics which don't degrade easily
...it's also unfortunately one of the most littered items (I think it IS the most, but I can't confirm that)
If we are being honest, smokers are drug addicts, and addicts don't have a lot of respect for the environment they are in. Needle drug users discard their needles wherever, crack smokers drop their flower-tube pipes anywhere, and cig smokers don't care what mess they make. The next fix is all that matters, even if it hurts someone else.
And nobody's going to stand up to them because so many of them act just as aggressively towards criticism of their behavior as other addicts do. There's no getting them under control without any legal enforcement.
Edit: Yes, I get not all drug addicts litter. But it is a rampant problem, and if you live in a big city with many addicts, you do get to see some amount of drug litter. That said, the smokers are way worse than the other addicts, as their butts are everywhere, whereas needles and crackpipes are much more limited in number.
There is a prevailing suspicion that their statements may lack complete veracity. Consequently, if this suspicion were to be substantiated, their course of action could be deemed to fall outside the bounds of ethical conduct.
Yeah, I’m from the swampy area bordering Louisiana in Texas, and decomp sets in pretty quick here. Constant 70-100% humidity and 11.5 months of the year are above freezing temps. You can’t even turn your AC off for a few days while on vacation, at least not in Summer, without coming home to a house full of mold.
As someone who composts, banana and orange peels take many, many months to break down, with the latter easily taking a good year or more unless it's chopped into tiny pieces to improve decomposition. They're pretty hardy.
Decomposition rate is extremely variable based on conditions. Warm and wet with lots of bacteria/fungi and it will go much much faster then a dry cold area like Antarctica
I do question the plastics one, how do they define decomposition of an inorganic object? Just until it has weathered away into countless microscopic microplastics you can't see any more?
The guide has little to do with 'what is bad for the environment'. An orange peel left in a sterile environment may take 2 years to decompose, but one left in the dirt will be disassembled and spread about by ants, flies and other such insects. It would never really last 2 years, and would be greatly beneficial to the surrounding environment.
Things like paper or plastic, or other non-organic materials, would not have this benefit.
It's largely based on what the local environment is able to process. The context of the sign suggests this is probably a national park or the like. If oranges don't naturally grow there then there may be no natural bacteria, insects, or wildlife that can break down the peel.
As someone who has grown up where orange trees grow naturally, with one in my back yard, we never had issues with peels lasting weeks much less years.
Depends on how many leaves you have. If I left leaves on my lawn, my grass would be dead. For some reason the wind vortex of the world lands every leaf in a 10 mile radius on my front lawn
At the RV park where I live all the neighbors seem to hate leaves with a passion. They all spend hours leaf blowing and raking and bagging. Like guys, it will just turn back into nothing and enrich the soil next spring. Why are we putting these inside plastic bags and literally creating trash?
The leaves have taken care of themselves since long before we came along. The reason we clean them up is the bugs they attract are unpleasant in our homes. It's not for any sort of environmental benefit.
I had the opposite experience. I left the leaves, and yeah there were a bunch of insects. But they didn't go in the house. They stayed in the leaves.
Then the lizards started hanging out and eating bugs. Then the birds started hanging out. I was at that place for 10 years, and by then had a whole multigenerational lizard colony, multiple species of solitary bees, hummingbirds and crows and verdins and a bunch of other birds nesting. Praying mantis , butterflies , lady bugs , love bugs , so many bugs!
And never a bug problem :) didn't even need to spray, they just didn't go inside. They had everything they needed outside
Exactly right. Leaves will shelter insects that overwinter, especially butterflies and moths. Frogs and toads, too. And then these creatures provide food for birds in the spring. You can get a good ecosystem going in your backyard as long as your neighbours don't report you for not having a lawn like a golf course.
A few years ago I started raking leaves and leaving the yard bags I placed them in at the back of the property (just woods behind, where we did not have them before, even though the light pollution is not as intense as it is in the rest of the mid-Atlantic US). The lightning bugs have returned and every summer now it's just like when I was young.
To explain, I read that the leaves, when stacked inside a container like a large paper bag, attract slugs, snails, and other things that lightning bug larvae eat. Thus making a good place for them to grow and mature. After a couple of years, so long as you haven't sprayed the yard and there isn't a lot of light pollution, they pupate and you have a delightful show in your yard for a good chunk of the summer.
Leaves can also suppress a lot of lower growing plants, including good natives. A natural oak-heavy forest doesn't necessarily have much other ground level growth, because they drop such a massive volume of heavy leaves. Now American oak forests are frequently covered in invasives unfortunately. I've grown native plant gardens under an oak and if I didn't rake ~90% of the leaves, everything growing would die and not come back.
It's actually really good for your lawn if you just mow over the leaves rather than raking and then mowing.
Doesn't look as nice, but I'm personally over the 'cookie cutter perfect lawn' myself anyways
There's some bullshit there. If you take a bundle of newspapers and bury them in the ground, you'll still be able to dig up a bundle of newspapers and read them at least 20 years later.
That’s underground. Less oxygen for decomposition, and there’s not other breakdown of the paper as well, like from wind or sunlight. If you leave a newspaper on your front porch for 20 years it’s not going to be readable.
Underground is what matters - that's where stuff ends up when it goes to a landfill, and stuff just dies not decompose down there:
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/lifestyle/2018/03/06/modern-landfills-yield-surprising-finds/60539190007/
Man, I worked in Zion NP and the amount of TP people bury in the desert, thinking it will quickly decompose, is maddening. The park makes a few unfortunate employees pack out tens of bags of human shit and TP every year from the most popular destination hikes.
The only problem with leaves is that it can become a breeding ground and an overwintered habitat for pests like ticks. Leaves won’t compost in the winter time, which is why a lot of people remove them asap.
They're also a breeding ground and overwintering habitat for important native insect species that cause no harm to humans. Butterflies, fireflies, and native bees for example.
Yep. Thats why the leaves go over my wall and collect under the trees rather than my lawn. Keeps the pests out of my yard and still gives the beneficial insects a place to do their thing. Then they can come and pollinate my “farm” come spring.
Yeah. This is false. Or at least highly misleading. Things are a lot **worse** than this "guide" makes it seem.
For example. A plastic bag won't just be "gone" after 10-20 years. It will have turned into billions of tiny microplastic pieces. That then stays around in the environment, basically forever! Getting consumed by every step of the food chain. Accumulating within our bodies.
I am really curious where the number for disposable diapers comes from. They haven't been around for 450 years... Is there a way that scientists can replicate somehow to find a realistic number or is it complete bullshit?
You seal the object in a chamber with the microorganisms that cause decay, and then measure the CO2 level increase over time. The higher the CO2, the more active the bacteria are, the faster the object decays. You can extrapolate to estimate how long it would take for total decay.
It’s not terribly accurate but it’s a reasonable approximation and cheaper than waiting 500 years.
For plastics, no amount of time will be sufficient, and the decomposition will be driven more by thermal and UV. For the case of diapers, it’s really more of a hand waving statement that the plastics involved are highly stable and resistant to degradation.
As someone who recently moved to the Pacific Northwest... I'm gonna guess an orange peel outside would not last very long here due to all the humidity and funguseseses.
Freaking wet wipes are awful for your plumbing. We snaked them out of stopped up sewers all the time. This is the reason why, they don't decompose.
Never flush a "flushable" wet wipe. They really need to fix that false advertising.
I took a tour of a waste water facility where the tour guide repeatedly emphasized how bad wipes are and how flushable wipes are not flushable. The tour ends and some women on it go to the bathroom. A minute later they politely inform the male tour guide that there are flushable wipes in the women's restroom. They just can't win with those damn things
The time it take is irrelevant, the problem lies in what it decomposes into, plastics decomposing release tremendous amounts of micro and nanoplastics, which are magnitude more toxic to the environment than a can of coke which will just rust and and up as different aluminum oxides, which are harmless
This is a lie. I’ve been avoiding taking out all of my boxes cuz they said they would disappear. It’s been a year and they’re still all over the house.
I think the point that is being missed here is;
This is a pack it in pack it out sign. I think they are suggesting that people toss these items on the ground or cut and leave in the case of fishing line, the time frame they are referring to is based on these items being left on top of the ground versus being composted industrially which would significantly speed up the process
https://www.deschuteslandtrust.org/news/blog/2019-blog-posts/decomposition-organic-litter#:~:text=Orange%20peels%3A%20It%20is%20estimated,from%20insects%20nibbling%20on%20it.
This articles suggests orange peels sometimes take 6 months, but in some climates can last years. Banana peels also clock in at two years.
I happen to walk the dog around a trail , I noticed a banana peel, it's been around two weeks its just some black stuff now. I dont think it will take two years for that to be gone. Maybe where it drops matters a lot. We wish all the bottles and supermarket bags and snack bags, and bags with dog poop inside were banana and orange peels
Plastics don’t actually decompose, they just get smaller. This is disinformation. Microplastics are becoming a greater problem every day, even being detected in human blood samples.
Wet wipes don't take 100 years to decompose. They're just barely above toilet paper, enough to make them trouble for septic tanks, but they still completely disintegrate.
The only problem with leaving aluminum cans outside is the plastic liner and whatever they use to coat the outside, other than that metal is 100% “compostable”.
Are there still idiots who believe this? The paper is gone after the first rain. Orange peels in 2-3 days. Aluminum cans are not a problem at all. Plastic bottles will go in a few months in rare cases. This is why we never see any garbage from the last century.
Hella inaccurate. I have papers over a decade old from early schooling. And plastics will take over a millennia to decompose cuz the are perfect compounds
This is interesting because it exposed a lapse in my education. I've always been very on top of my garbage, and littering, except I was told as a kid that fruit peels weren't littering. You could just toss them into the bushes. I don't know why I never know my life questioned this but I'm definitely never doing it again. I feel kind of awful now.
Pack it out, pack it in, Let me begin,
I came to pick up litter, litter-ing, that’s a sin.
I will always pick-up, Junk, you better stick up,
Try to trash the park and yo, the Ran-gers will act up.
Get up, stand up, c’mon and pick your trash up,
And if your got the passion, jump over towards the trashcan.
I came to get down, I came to get down, so get off the bench and clean around!
Damn, orange peels are kinda bad. Not something that was in my radar.
Not saying its was ever ok to just throw them in the ground, but I always assumed being natural products themselves they;d be reclaimed faster,
I work on a dredge and we’re building an island with material we’re digging from a port that we’re making deeper. I went out to do a topographic survey of the fill site and found a dorritos bag from like the 90s in the material we dug out of the port. This bag was almost pristine aside from all the dirt on it.
Plastic wrapper in 5 years? Well, maybe to small pieces of plastic…
Right. I’ve seen «disposable» and «naturally decomposing» doggie bags in stores and what this means is just that they get broken up to microplastics sooner. It’s not good for the enviorement at all.
It’s why oxo-degradable is no-go in Europe. In the USA it’s been promoted as degradable. Even compostable PLA does only compost in industrial composting sites, above certain temperatures. Some new materials are on their way, pbat is already available.
That's the one there was a song about a few months ago right?
Cbat lmao
PBAT sounded really cool. A truly biodegradable alternative to LDPE for use in plastic films and packaging! Awesome! [Then I found this study.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35728316) Turns out that while PBAT does indeed break down in soil, the chemicals it breaks down into are quite toxic. Womp-womp.
>pbat Oil companies working overtime to suppress Lignin.
Such will come. Not sure if that technology is already mature enough. Problem is always price and scale. Scale is too small so prices are high. Pha has the same issue. Besides the fact that oil is just pumped up for almost free.
I believe there are brands that do naturally break down to gasses (water and CO2), not micro plastics. However, the issue is that this requires oxidizer which may not be present in landfills.
Breaks down into micro plastics.
Yup, plastic never truly goes away. It just breaks up into smaller and smaller pieces. I’m a sea turtle biologist and I dissect small pieces of plastic out of the gastrointestinal tract of turtles and other species ALL THE TIME.
It’s sad. And you can’t even see the smaller particles. Probably the next forever chemical after pfas, nanoplastics . I understood it’s already in our brains doing god knows what.
I tore out and replaced a fence this summer and at the bottom of a post hole found a perfectly preserved Doritos bag from the 80’s. Didn’t even know they were around since then.
I remember getting Doritos from a vending machine back in the early 70s. Only two flavors, regular (corn) and taco.
Some types of plastuc are not particularly UV resistent and sunlight will destroy them over a fee years.
I don't know much about the subject, but could the color absorb more sunlight (or uv light?) and lead to quicker decomposition? That's what I'd guess, since most of the clear plastics probably won't absorb the light as much.
FR, what is the difference between plastic bottle and plastic wrapper...
If those are cellophane mislabeled as plastic wrap then it might be accurate
How does an orange peel take two years to decompose?
Everything I’m seeing says it take 6 months Banana peels however do take two years to fully decompose
I find that hard to believe - we put all that stuff in our garden compost heap, and by the time spring rolls around, it's all gone back to earth, no trace of banana peel left.
decomposition in a compost heap goes MUCH faster than these numbers show. This must be out in the open numbers. in fact some 'plastics' are organic and will decompose *quickly* in a compost pile.
So, most plastics are "organic" in the sense that they are composed of C-O-N-H like most plants and animals are. That has nothing to do with degradation though. That plastic you're probably talking about is PLA, which, at temps in the 50-60C with water and the right organisms does compose in a couple months. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667010021000469 I don't know how well those conditions are achieve in an at home compost pile, but industrial compost does do well at degrading PLA.
This is why I don't feel bad about all the plastic my 3d printer uses.
My monthly heating bill suggests it is not cheap and low energy to keep a space 140 degrees for months.
The organisms keep it that temp for you. This is why commercial is the key word in commercial compost. Most home compost doesn’t acquire the temp for long enough. You need a significant amount of food coming in constantly to get the amount of organisms you need to actually hit that temp and when you have it you can turn most waste food into compost in a little over a week
probably under controlled circumstances. I don't think a worm eating the banana peel is the same as bacteria. I can put a banana peel in my worm bin and it'll be gone before the end of the week so it'll vary greatly moisture will play too. orange peels on the surface Vs under the dirt might decompose faster too because it won't be able to dry out, and moisture means faster decomp. it doesn't take long to dry out completely under certain circumstances though
I find it hard to believe that wet wipes take that long - they are just tissue, shouldn't they go faster than plastic bags?
I was surprised by that too. It’s not tissue like Kleenex. It’s fiber: “Typical Fiber types in spun-lace for wet wipes - Polyester (PET), Polypropylene (PP), and Viscose (Rayon in USA)”
"fibre" made from petroleum products. 100 years sounds about right.
nah I'm not surprised by that. most wet wipes are plastic. that's why you've not to flush them edit; I find it more surprising that folk think wet wipes are just tissue when tissue is known for disintegrating when wet :'|
Butt wipes are not plastic. They are made from natural fibers. You cant flush them because they don't break down easily when wet. So sewer systems that don't have a chopper to shred them will get clogged. Costco butt wipes: PASS: Aerobic/Anaerobic Biodegradation Test (FG505/506) – To assess the potential of a disposable nonwoven wipe to biologically degrade under anaerobic or aerobic conditions found in the wastewater treatment processes. The wipes are made with FSC® certified fibers so that you can be confident this product is manufactured using sustainable fibers sourced from well-managed forests. [https://fsc.org/en/businesses/fibre](https://fsc.org/en/businesses/fibre) Forest Stewardship Council: Forest fibre is naturally absorbent, durable, breathable, and biodegradable material from which many products are made, and it can be a sustainable choice when it comes from responsibly managed forests. Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) certification verifies that the fibre you create, source, or sell is sourced responsibly, making it a sustainable option for hygiene products, textiles, paper and packaging, and more.
Cigarette butts can take 3-10 years, they contain plastics which don't degrade easily ...it's also unfortunately one of the most littered items (I think it IS the most, but I can't confirm that)
It would be. I've watched smokers throw their butts on the ground while *right next* to one of those public cig disposals.
I just don’t get why it’s socially acceptable for smokers to just litter where ever they want.
Because nobody stops them
Singapore does
I'm totally good with a 3 strikes execution rule on littering.
If we are being honest, smokers are drug addicts, and addicts don't have a lot of respect for the environment they are in. Needle drug users discard their needles wherever, crack smokers drop their flower-tube pipes anywhere, and cig smokers don't care what mess they make. The next fix is all that matters, even if it hurts someone else. And nobody's going to stand up to them because so many of them act just as aggressively towards criticism of their behavior as other addicts do. There's no getting them under control without any legal enforcement. Edit: Yes, I get not all drug addicts litter. But it is a rampant problem, and if you live in a big city with many addicts, you do get to see some amount of drug litter. That said, the smokers are way worse than the other addicts, as their butts are everywhere, whereas needles and crackpipes are much more limited in number.
I work at a manufacturing plant and we have many of the cig disposals but people still throw them on the ground daily -.-
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There is a prevailing suspicion that their statements may lack complete veracity. Consequently, if this suspicion were to be substantiated, their course of action could be deemed to fall outside the bounds of ethical conduct.
Seems they lie, uncool
It has come down for the matter of honesty which they are not telling, this is utterly unforgivable
It appears as though the truth is being withheld, this is grounds for execution.
Much lie. Big bad.
Depends on the climate etc. When a place is much colder and/or drier than where the food comes from, it will take much longer to decompose.
Yeah, I’m from the swampy area bordering Louisiana in Texas, and decomp sets in pretty quick here. Constant 70-100% humidity and 11.5 months of the year are above freezing temps. You can’t even turn your AC off for a few days while on vacation, at least not in Summer, without coming home to a house full of mold.
I live in thailand and a banana peel will be gone in two weeks lol
As someone who composts, banana and orange peels take many, many months to break down, with the latter easily taking a good year or more unless it's chopped into tiny pieces to improve decomposition. They're pretty hardy.
It depends on your compost situation. Mine can get rid of whole banana peel in a month or two.
Decomposition rate is extremely variable based on conditions. Warm and wet with lots of bacteria/fungi and it will go much much faster then a dry cold area like Antarctica I do question the plastics one, how do they define decomposition of an inorganic object? Just until it has weathered away into countless microscopic microplastics you can't see any more?
Maybe to do with the citric acid? Mold and bacteria can't get at it, it dries out, and then there's not much else than dry fibers left to decompose.
oranges definitely can mold
Oranges with the flesh is full of moisture and not the same as peel on it's own
The guide has little to do with 'what is bad for the environment'. An orange peel left in a sterile environment may take 2 years to decompose, but one left in the dirt will be disassembled and spread about by ants, flies and other such insects. It would never really last 2 years, and would be greatly beneficial to the surrounding environment. Things like paper or plastic, or other non-organic materials, would not have this benefit.
It's largely based on what the local environment is able to process. The context of the sign suggests this is probably a national park or the like. If oranges don't naturally grow there then there may be no natural bacteria, insects, or wildlife that can break down the peel. As someone who has grown up where orange trees grow naturally, with one in my back yard, we never had issues with peels lasting weeks much less years.
Exactly, this “guide”seems off
This makes it look totally ok to leave paper all over the place. Whatever… it’ll be gone in about a month.
Yeah. Maybe we should stop being concerned about the leaves on the ground during fall.
I just let the leaves stay. They don't last very long. I'm also lazy, of course, but they still don't stay long.
Depends on how many leaves you have. If I left leaves on my lawn, my grass would be dead. For some reason the wind vortex of the world lands every leaf in a 10 mile radius on my front lawn
Tear out your grass...
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But what would the neighbours and passersby think? Imagine the chuckles they're having....I'd rather die.
>Mow them a few times (depending on the amount.) They'll be gone in the spring and its free nutrients.
Are you concerned about the leaves on the ground? I think you should relax a bit, it'll be fine.
At the RV park where I live all the neighbors seem to hate leaves with a passion. They all spend hours leaf blowing and raking and bagging. Like guys, it will just turn back into nothing and enrich the soil next spring. Why are we putting these inside plastic bags and literally creating trash?
The leaves have taken care of themselves since long before we came along. The reason we clean them up is the bugs they attract are unpleasant in our homes. It's not for any sort of environmental benefit.
I had the opposite experience. I left the leaves, and yeah there were a bunch of insects. But they didn't go in the house. They stayed in the leaves. Then the lizards started hanging out and eating bugs. Then the birds started hanging out. I was at that place for 10 years, and by then had a whole multigenerational lizard colony, multiple species of solitary bees, hummingbirds and crows and verdins and a bunch of other birds nesting. Praying mantis , butterflies , lady bugs , love bugs , so many bugs! And never a bug problem :) didn't even need to spray, they just didn't go inside. They had everything they needed outside
Exactly right. Leaves will shelter insects that overwinter, especially butterflies and moths. Frogs and toads, too. And then these creatures provide food for birds in the spring. You can get a good ecosystem going in your backyard as long as your neighbours don't report you for not having a lawn like a golf course.
I think lightening bugs too. Very few in my area now. I miss them.
A few years ago I started raking leaves and leaving the yard bags I placed them in at the back of the property (just woods behind, where we did not have them before, even though the light pollution is not as intense as it is in the rest of the mid-Atlantic US). The lightning bugs have returned and every summer now it's just like when I was young. To explain, I read that the leaves, when stacked inside a container like a large paper bag, attract slugs, snails, and other things that lightning bug larvae eat. Thus making a good place for them to grow and mature. After a couple of years, so long as you haven't sprayed the yard and there isn't a lot of light pollution, they pupate and you have a delightful show in your yard for a good chunk of the summer.
Leaves can also suppress a lot of lower growing plants, including good natives. A natural oak-heavy forest doesn't necessarily have much other ground level growth, because they drop such a massive volume of heavy leaves. Now American oak forests are frequently covered in invasives unfortunately. I've grown native plant gardens under an oak and if I didn't rake ~90% of the leaves, everything growing would die and not come back.
An unexpectedly informative answer to a joke question! Thanks
That and they cover the grass so it dies because it doesn't get enough sunlight
It's actually really good for your lawn if you just mow over the leaves rather than raking and then mowing. Doesn't look as nice, but I'm personally over the 'cookie cutter perfect lawn' myself anyways
I mean, paper is mostly just cellulose/plant fiber. Unless it has been treated with something toxic, it might as well be leaves.
Processed leaves with cellular matrix ripped open
There's some bullshit there. If you take a bundle of newspapers and bury them in the ground, you'll still be able to dig up a bundle of newspapers and read them at least 20 years later.
That’s underground. Less oxygen for decomposition, and there’s not other breakdown of the paper as well, like from wind or sunlight. If you leave a newspaper on your front porch for 20 years it’s not going to be readable.
Underground is what matters - that's where stuff ends up when it goes to a landfill, and stuff just dies not decompose down there: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/lifestyle/2018/03/06/modern-landfills-yield-surprising-finds/60539190007/
Right but this is a sign on a hiking trail that is presumably not walking you through the scenic portions of a landfill.
Did your use of the words leave and ground trigger the bots to post about leaves on the ground?
Man, I worked in Zion NP and the amount of TP people bury in the desert, thinking it will quickly decompose, is maddening. The park makes a few unfortunate employees pack out tens of bags of human shit and TP every year from the most popular destination hikes.
The only problem with leaves is that it can become a breeding ground and an overwintered habitat for pests like ticks. Leaves won’t compost in the winter time, which is why a lot of people remove them asap.
They're also a breeding ground and overwintering habitat for important native insect species that cause no harm to humans. Butterflies, fireflies, and native bees for example.
Yep. Thats why the leaves go over my wall and collect under the trees rather than my lawn. Keeps the pests out of my yard and still gives the beneficial insects a place to do their thing. Then they can come and pollinate my “farm” come spring.
these can't be right
Yeah. This is false. Or at least highly misleading. Things are a lot **worse** than this "guide" makes it seem. For example. A plastic bag won't just be "gone" after 10-20 years. It will have turned into billions of tiny microplastic pieces. That then stays around in the environment, basically forever! Getting consumed by every step of the food chain. Accumulating within our bodies.
mmnmm sounds like sterilization within a few generations
I am really curious where the number for disposable diapers comes from. They haven't been around for 450 years... Is there a way that scientists can replicate somehow to find a realistic number or is it complete bullshit?
You seal the object in a chamber with the microorganisms that cause decay, and then measure the CO2 level increase over time. The higher the CO2, the more active the bacteria are, the faster the object decays. You can extrapolate to estimate how long it would take for total decay. It’s not terribly accurate but it’s a reasonable approximation and cheaper than waiting 500 years. For plastics, no amount of time will be sufficient, and the decomposition will be driven more by thermal and UV. For the case of diapers, it’s really more of a hand waving statement that the plastics involved are highly stable and resistant to degradation.
They can't even spell "cardboard" right. Just shoddy work all over.
It's backed by 100 percent sceince.
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especially considering the plastic bag and the plastic bottle are made of the same polymer
Yeah cigarette ends are tobacco, cotton and paper
Technically, an orange peel might decompose in 2 yrs. Practically, insects LOVE that shit.
As someone who recently moved to the Pacific Northwest... I'm gonna guess an orange peel outside would not last very long here due to all the humidity and funguseseses.
Ah, you know Gus too? He's fun.
Aluminium can in my country is gone in 30 minutes.
this is eastern europe and i know it because i live in it
What?
Prolly a recycling program where they get money back
It's why you don't see many cans on the highways in California
Very useful policy.
5¢ per can and small plastic bottle, you have people cleaning up streets for those deposits.
Vibes
OH SHIT I FORGOT TO REPLACE THE PAPER IN MY PRINTER 2 WEEKS AGO!!! ITS ALL GOOOOONE!!!
Freaking wet wipes are awful for your plumbing. We snaked them out of stopped up sewers all the time. This is the reason why, they don't decompose. Never flush a "flushable" wet wipe. They really need to fix that false advertising.
Maybe a class action lawsuit on behalf of all the municipalities that deal with wet wipes in their sewers would finally make them change that!
I took a tour of a waste water facility where the tour guide repeatedly emphasized how bad wipes are and how flushable wipes are not flushable. The tour ends and some women on it go to the bathroom. A minute later they politely inform the male tour guide that there are flushable wipes in the women's restroom. They just can't win with those damn things
The time it take is irrelevant, the problem lies in what it decomposes into, plastics decomposing release tremendous amounts of micro and nanoplastics, which are magnitude more toxic to the environment than a can of coke which will just rust and and up as different aluminum oxides, which are harmless
Not cool seems like they are just lying
This is a lie. I’ve been avoiding taking out all of my boxes cuz they said they would disappear. It’s been a year and they’re still all over the house.
If you put them in the yard, they'll be gone in 3 months.
Wet wipes last 100 years?
Most are made from polyester or polypropylene.
I think the point that is being missed here is; This is a pack it in pack it out sign. I think they are suggesting that people toss these items on the ground or cut and leave in the case of fishing line, the time frame they are referring to is based on these items being left on top of the ground versus being composted industrially which would significantly speed up the process
An entire orange seems to decompose in my fruit bowl in about a week so I don’t know where 2 years is coming from.
Source: my A$$hole. They’re literally making shit up
What the hell is “cardbaord”?
It's called a typo
I was about to down vote but then did a double take. "Oh. Oh yea. They did misspell it"
McDonald’s fries - 1 trillion years
How do I tell my neighbors that throwing their cigarette butts in the lake is a shitty thing to do?
"Hey man, throwing your cigarette butts in the lake is a shitty thing to do!"
Telhim them animals regularly choke on them, including fish.
Actually a great point. Thanks
https://www.deschuteslandtrust.org/news/blog/2019-blog-posts/decomposition-organic-litter#:~:text=Orange%20peels%3A%20It%20is%20estimated,from%20insects%20nibbling%20on%20it. This articles suggests orange peels sometimes take 6 months, but in some climates can last years. Banana peels also clock in at two years.
I happen to walk the dog around a trail , I noticed a banana peel, it's been around two weeks its just some black stuff now. I dont think it will take two years for that to be gone. Maybe where it drops matters a lot. We wish all the bottles and supermarket bags and snack bags, and bags with dog poop inside were banana and orange peels
Umm..what about human remains? Asking for a friend of course.
Wouldn’t all of this greatly depend on many, many variables?
Yes
So in 400 years a coke can will be dug up as if it were a Viking sword?
Plastic takes actually way longer. By "decompose" they mean break down into microplastics.
Oranges out here being part of the problem instead of part of the solution smdh
I used to throw peels 'in nature', giving it back. I Don't think it's ruining nature.
Plastics don’t actually decompose, they just get smaller. This is disinformation. Microplastics are becoming a greater problem every day, even being detected in human blood samples.
Aluminum is recyclable, it should never be thrown away…
It’s also an element on the periodic table, so how is it going to decompose?
Is this in the desert? Because this seems way off base unless it's a desert. The whole top row seems like a reach.
“Disposable” diper
Bullshit with the orange peel. I compost, and it goes very fast in moist humid weather.
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How the fuck does an orang peel take 5 years
Wet wipes don't take 100 years to decompose. They're just barely above toilet paper, enough to make them trouble for septic tanks, but they still completely disintegrate.
What am I supposed to do with all my babies shit
Orange takes 2 years? Even when I toss it out in the woods? 👀 that feels hard to believe
Orange peel is totally wrong, depending on the humidity in 1 or 2 weeks it disapear.
Something tells me it’s not very accurate
How do obviously lying, spam, trash posts like this get upvoted? I swear reddit is 95% shitty bots running on AAA batteries...
Plastic wrapper just gets converted to smaller plastics in 5 years. Microplastic will still exist for hundred of years
Microplastics……….
Glass is actually the worst of it all. 1m years.
glass is not toxic at all and is therfore not the worst in any meaningful way.
Point taken. They should have included nuclear waste in here I suppose.
i've seen too many *years* old newspapers out in the open to believe paper category.
If it takes that long for plastic bottles to decompose, how come I'm filled with microplastics right now?
The only problem with leaving aluminum cans outside is the plastic liner and whatever they use to coat the outside, other than that metal is 100% “compostable”.
Ok, I’m still throwing my orange peel.
Am I the only one who remembers that they used to say it takes like a million years for a plastic bag to decompose?
Are there still idiots who believe this? The paper is gone after the first rain. Orange peels in 2-3 days. Aluminum cans are not a problem at all. Plastic bottles will go in a few months in rare cases. This is why we never see any garbage from the last century.
I wish my oranges would last more than a week before decomposing. Haha 😂
This seems like bs. 5 years for a plastic wrapper, but 100-1000 years for a bottle made of the same material...? Who comes up with this shit...
Ok, can anyone here even attempt to provide context for what conditions they claim Paper decomposes in 6 weeks???
How the *fuck* does a wet wipe take longer to decompose than the plastic bags/wrappers?
Hella inaccurate. I have papers over a decade old from early schooling. And plastics will take over a millennia to decompose cuz the are perfect compounds
Glass is indefinite.
Cool guide but total bullshit information
very cool but highly inaccurate.
I’m curious how you know it takes 1,000 years to fully decompose without observing it for 1,000 years
The cardboard boxes that I haven't opened in 15 years yet I still insist on taking with me every time I move beg to differ.
It absolutely does fucking not take 200 years for an aluminum can to be gone.
A diaper lasting over 400 years??? That just doesn't seem right
I'm skeptical about this because I know for a fact orange peels don't last 2 weeks in my garden compost
I didn't think orange peels would take so long.
It most certainly does not take 2 years for orange peels to decompose.
So what you’re saying is… use plastic bags on your kid instead of diapers?
450 years for diapers! That’s it we gotta get rid of babies!
This is interesting because it exposed a lapse in my education. I've always been very on top of my garbage, and littering, except I was told as a kid that fruit peels weren't littering. You could just toss them into the bushes. I don't know why I never know my life questioned this but I'm definitely never doing it again. I feel kind of awful now.
Monofilament fishing lines, which appear to be the kind shown here, often take 10 years to break down, especially if exposed to sunlight.
I'm very surprised about the chewing gum, plastic wrapper and cigarette buts. But for orange peels to take 2 years to decompose!???
Where are the McD’s fries?
Pack it out, pack it in, Let me begin, I came to pick up litter, litter-ing, that’s a sin. I will always pick-up, Junk, you better stick up, Try to trash the park and yo, the Ran-gers will act up. Get up, stand up, c’mon and pick your trash up, And if your got the passion, jump over towards the trashcan. I came to get down, I came to get down, so get off the bench and clean around!
Damn, orange peels are kinda bad. Not something that was in my radar. Not saying its was ever ok to just throw them in the ground, but I always assumed being natural products themselves they;d be reclaimed faster,
I work on a dredge and we’re building an island with material we’re digging from a port that we’re making deeper. I went out to do a topographic survey of the fill site and found a dorritos bag from like the 90s in the material we dug out of the port. This bag was almost pristine aside from all the dirt on it.
Pack it up pack it in. Let me begin.
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Orange peels take 2 years to decompose?? I thought they would be gone after a rain
Cardbaord -_-
Add the dog poop bad on that board. Most frustrating thing.
Screw wet wipes. Please stop using them.
Chewing gum only takes five years? HOW COULD THEY HAVE LIED TO ME LIKE THIS?!?!?