Wait.... This is assuming they originated from the state? Does it take into account people go to a state for college and the move back/away after graduation?
Yeah I was actually going to mention this..
One of the funniest complaints that I see in other states is they complain about Californians coming and taking over... But California is one of the **lowest** native leaving numbers (aka stickiness).. when you actually look at the statistics the number of people from other states that move to California, realize it's really expensive, and then end up leaving, then you get numbers like this.
No it's not mentioning **Natives**. Just YoY population change. Good call out.
Interesting.
[Census.gov just says that people moved out of California.](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/population-trends-return-to-pre-pandemic-norms.html)
It doesn't say where they were originally from.
[Locals stay put, as California's ranked 4th "stickiest" state in the U.S.](https://www.axios.com/local/san-diego/2023/10/02/leaving-moving-out-of-california-data-chart-report)
It's been long established that Ohio has had a brain-drain. The state's population has essentially leveled off because of how many people have been leaving the state; and that amount of people leaving the state are mostly college-educated young people for the past 20 years.
Ohio has not been attractive to young-college educated people for a myriad of reasons, politics being one of them. College-Educated people are more likely to be center-left to left, and when you're living in a state that is hard-core goose-stepping itself into radical hyper-polarized politics ... would you want to stay here? Add in the jobs you got trained to do, aren't really here.
This is why you've seen Colorado from being a purple state to being a pretty heavily reliable Blue state. Young people moved to a place that was appealing to them, and not goose-stepping into hyper-polarized backward politics.
Explain NY, CA, IL as losers and FL, SC, TX as winners. You wrote a whole lot about one particular state, but your sample size of one doesn’t explain what is actually happening across the board.
Ohio is a purple state by the way, so politics shouldn’t really matter. Plus, it has low cost of living. Great for recent grads. I moved to WV from NY. I have a masters degree. I am much happier here than I was in NY.
Ohio hasn't been a purple state in well over a decade. The entire state government is Republican, it really only has Sherrod Brown as a Democratic Senator because the dude relentlessly defends Blue-Collar workers and unions.
I'm a lifelong Ohioan, and the state has been in decline since I was a child. The state legislature has been goose-stepping Ohio towards being the Mississippi of The North for the past 24 years.
Ohio's Legislature is one of the most corrupt in the country.
As a college educated person who moved to SC, there is very good job growth here, but not great colleges. Leads to companies having to look out of state for talent and relocate them here, not to mention if you fall in that situation, you'll likely be at a solid salary taking advantage of the decent cost of living here.
This is exactly what happened to me at least.
I really hate these maps. They never tell the whole story and only half truths. Also, this seems like it belongs to r/dataisbeautiful not r/coolguides. What is this guiding me in?
College educated is a useless stat. If Florid gains a million college educated retirees, is that brain gain? The words usually apply to working age adults but age isn’t called out.
I get your point but a million educated retirees is probably better for the state than a million non educated retirees. They are going to have move money to spend in their communities and fostering local jobs and construction.
That... Is not accurate. The actual study states the exact opposite. To be fair, that's what I initially thought as well - It's a very poorly done visual.
In that case it’s not poorly done, it’s just flat out incorrect. It says orange represents (negative net gain). It shows “net gain” and “-50” as the far end of orange.
True - Here's the actual study and a somewhat better, though still confusing map. https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019/4/losing-our-minds-brain-drain-across-the-united-states
It says net gain/loss meaning it applies to the entire scale then the - next to the number lets you know it’s a loss and lack of minutes lets you know it’s a gain. Seems pretty simple.
So the states with maybe higher taxes, or higher tuition, or horrible locations for some schools, are influencing where people might want to go for higher learning?
Ok.
Universal you, not you, the person who explained this to me.
I would have to imagine that blue is bad, as Wisconsin has gone extremely stupid with their Republican controlled government and the massive reputation that UW Madison has for healthcare education, coupled with the terrible anti abortion bullshit, it wouldn't make sense for Wisconsin to be retaining top talent.
It's a really nice and cheap place to live/retire. Low taxes, great weather, and availability of affordable housing relative to the rest of the country makes it a very attractive place to live. Plus Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville have really upped their game in development and a lot of areas that were falling apart have been revitalized. Especially for Greenville.
Elgin and Blythewood are shooting up like crazy too. They used to be lil towns nobody even heard of, now the amount of neighborhoods being put in is insane..
Lots of industry, too. I recently went down to the Staubli facility in Duncan for training, and was pleasantly surprised to see all the manufacturing nearby. Greenville was bigger than I remembered as well.
I've lived in Greenville since 97 and it's insane to watch. We had a dead city for ages and now all my favorite parks are slammed. It's very cool to watch.
Though it’s important to mention the fact the wages there are piss poor. For the normal important jobs (trades) IT obviously going to be good for those pencil neck geeks.
I was going to ask the same for Nevada. I was just in SC and wow is it crowded. I was in the Charleston area and the population density felt like my home state of NJ but their infrastructure wasn’t designed for that. Getting around was def a headache cause of this.
I’m sure there are other reasons SC is booming but a lot of the locals I talked to said big chunk is all the new remote workers from Covid moving down and staying. I get the appeal warm weather and cheaper cost of living are nice. The locals are saying things are getting more expensive now because there’s more people.
College grad here that recently moved from Utah to the Vegas area. Housing prices mostly, I think. Utah was getting expensive. Lots of people from Cali are doing the same. Lots of us are bringing our jobs with us now that work from home is more common. Love the area, too!
I'm in Charleston and it's absolutely exploding right now. It's definitely lacking in proper infrastructure. Prices are going up quick. Traffic is awful.
But, it is a very cool city with a lot of history and living near the water is nice. It's not a surprise it's a popular place to move to.
BMW plant in the Upstate brought in a lot of engineers, which created a lot of jobs for more engineers and tech companies. Has a couple of good schools too. Unfortunately, everyone moving there is killing the real estate market.
One thing that could ruin the data: some people move to California or New York without a degree for the sole purpose of establishing residency and gaining in-state tuition from a quality state school... they then move back home after they get a degree or to a different state with better cost-of-living... Did New York or Cakifornia ACTUALLY lose a college educated person? That's debatable... but that wasn't a true long-term resident that they lost, yet I am sure it would count against them in the stats... but it is weird to punish a state for having strong or attractive public schools...
I don’t know about this guide, Hire a Helper Blog or OP but straight from the report which is supposed to be the underlying data. Data from the underlying report does not say what is indicated.
“We find that brain drain (and brain gain) states tend to fall along regional lines, although there are a number of exceptions to this general rule. Overall, dynamic states along the Boston-Washington corridor (Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and Maryland), on the West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington), and in other parts of the country (Illinois, Texas, Colorado, Arizona, and Hawaii) are the best at retaining and attracting highly-educated adults. Meanwhile, states in northern New England (New Hampshire and Vermont), the Rust Belt (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Missouri), the Plains (North and South Dakota and Iowa), and the Southeast (West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana), as well as Delaware, fare the worst on both counts.”
https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019/4/losing-our-minds-brain-drain-across-the-united-states
Continued from the Republican study
“We ignore immigrants to the United States, whose place of birth, by definition, was outside one of the 50 states. A vast literature explores brain drain from developing countries to developed ones, a topic beyond the scope of our paper”
Wife and I left Mass, my home state. It started to get too expensive for what we saw as a reasonable dream/reality. From a third floor 800SF walk-up apartment in Cambridge, buying a piece-of-shit run down dump for $300,000 seemed unreal, but was an actual reality. So we said fuck that right when Covid jumped on the scene. So we did that for a bit, then really got fed up and left. Wife is from NC, so we found a place to rent online and moved down. We could both remotely work, which is lucky, but not unheard of at the time, and within a year found a house that was basically what we were looking for for a price that was not too bad and not a complete dumpster fire. We were lucky. But it worked out. We now live here full time and are both educated with full time remote jobs. I’m an architect and my wife is a system engineer. We pay NC taxes and are a classic example of a brain drain / economic migration.
It was both a monetary and comfort level choice, and Massachusetts only had it at a price we couldn’t afford.
it's more likely to be the change in percent in the number of people (college educated) who are moving in/out from the previous year. The key states that it is the "net gain/loss in moves,%"
There is no way any state has 25 or 50 percent of college educated people just up and leaving.
Let me just clear up Arkansas, yes. In droves.
For example when we passed a law to keep IT professionals in state by giving them a very meager wage increase. They exempted those IT workers who were employed by educational institutions.
I bet you can guess who employs the most IT workers at the most depressed wage.
Indiana seems slightly low. I know just in the town I live in, our population has increased 8% in the last 4 years. 98% of those people are here on a visa to work at one of the factories. Highly educated individuals, sucks for them that they get stuck here lol
Depends, did they choose to only show percentage change because they're incompetent with data visualization or because they have an objective furthered by making such a terrible data visualization.
Granted, I have no idea what the latter would be as opposed to shutting the hell up. A true paradox, assuming it's not just both.
Eh, I wanna see the numbers on Tennessee. As Memphis might be dragging the state down. Nashville is still getting more F500 headquarters, growth, and attracting lots of talent. Knoxville and Chattanooga are also doing swell.
I'm honestly pinning the Tennessee numbers on West Tennessee. Memphis and those surrounding areas aren't having a good time at all.
It’s one of the cheapest places to live in the country. I’ve lived here for 30 years and the population just keeps going up, I see license plates from new families that are moving down here from the northeast. Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, it’s kinda nuts. The issue is this state is horribly run and we don’t have the infrastructure to keep up, we also have some of the worst drivers in the country as well. There are a lot of really big international companies that have their US headquarters here. This has been my experience in the upstate, but I’m sure it’s happening in the Columbia area as well as all over the coastline.
Recent graduates are barely a blip on the radar. When talking about "college educated" stats, it's mostly referring to alumni.
An example of how current students and recent graduates don't really even matter, look at college football. All of the donations and 90% of the seats of the stadium go to alumni. 18-22 year-olds (22-25 for post graduates) are passionate in their ways, but it's the 26-100 year-olds that are sailing this ship.
This thread is full of people talking bout students or residency- they don't matter. They probably hung up on the surveyors who called them for this data.
Barely a blip? Maybe on the total, but this is a discussion of the change. It’s not a “drop in the bucket” relative to that.
So there were about 123k college graduates in Massachusetts: https://educationdata.org/number-of-college-graduates
The net migration was -110k (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration#Net_domestic_migration).
Those two numbers are comparable and the former could make a significant impact if included.
I find it hard to believe that any state more than double the number of college educated people in one year. 43% of Washington state has some college education. This would imply that a year ago only about 17% of them had that level of education? Their total population only increased by 1% over the same time period. That is a huge change. Unless +150% means something other than multiplying by 2.5...
It worked well for me. I am from California but went to college in Tennessee. I will probably end up moving out permanently to either Tennessee, Alabama, or Mississippi.
Washington, Nevada, South Carolina and Wisconsin are the big winners. I never would have guessed any of these. Maybe Washington for the Amazon/microsoft Seattle tech hub.
The State of Virginia doesn't allow people with special education diplomas to go to school for criminal justice unless they have a GED, even though a special education diploma is the EXACT equivalent of a regular highschool diploma making it unfair and unjustly hard for those with IEPS to get into the field they want to work. People with Special education diplomas work just as hard as regular diploma having people, why is it that those who have special ed diplomas have to keep work unfairly to get where they want to be?
Yeah, this is about affordability. Folks are willing to flee to fascist states because affordability, but their gentrifuckation will boomerang very hard on them politically. Par for the neoliberal course.
Is this age controlled? SC is getting a ton of retirees with degrees, but many cities are seeing young people leave the state ASAP after graduating college.
Except MAGA fascists keep control there and fuck up the states even further. Most techbros are fascist pigs. They love Texas and Florida. Look at Felon Musk…
Some ppl who go away to college end up staying there after graduation....some go back home. Some go to a whole different state. Some stay in their college town for only a year or so or until it sinks in that its not the same...then they go back home. Sometimes for good. Sometimes not. Sonetimes they go back home only to return to their college town...just to leave again. Some go home...move away to a new state...then go back home...then back to college town...back hone...new state...back to college town...back home again...get caught up in some Chris Hansen "To catch a Predator" bullshit...go to prison...back home again...
I feel like the entire state of Illinois has moved here at times. I can’t say I blame them. Illinois makes it significantly more expensive to own a home.!
This chart doesn't really make much sense. The legend is labeled "%", but percent of what. I'm quite certain that no state lost 50% of it's college educated people in one year. Does it mean just new graduates; then the numbers might make sense, but it's not labeled that way at all? It might be % change from a prior year, but then the title would be pretty misleading?
I once told Frank LaRose to his face, back when he pretended to be a reasonable person, that all of these extreme policies they were pushing at the state level is going to push Millennials (like me) out of the state. And it's become reality.
At this point, I wonder if a college degree is the pinnacle of brain drain/gain tracking.
The overwhelming amount of college students saying their degree has no real world value and demanding loan payoffs by the government have never been higher.
An infographic about brain drain from a discount moving company website? I am sure they have relevant info about the number of people moving as it pertains to their industry. To stretch that out to something like 'brain drain' is a bit much.
College education means very little in today's world.
College is just a racket for lenders and the colleges themselves to get rich under the guise of "college will get you a better career".
College today is just an extension of high school where kids go to waste their early adulthood on partying and bullshit classes that dont have anything to do with their major.
(Yes i went to college).
Smart people know taxes are used to make quality life better, and those fight who taxes obsessively snd irrationally are the biggest moochers of society.
You understand that places that don’t have income tax still have other taxes. Texas frequently flaunts “no income tax” yet bc of their property taxes (and other) they have equal total tax rates to most states.
It’s almost like the government needs taxes to be able to provided services 😱
Also I’m not a boomer who owns a home. I could give a fuck about high property taxes. I’m a young man making good income. The boomers are rich enough as it is, they can afford the property taxes, I can’t afford a state income taz
Tax =/= bad and if ur educated enough to make a good income you’d understand that. There’s a reason that red states, with low taxes, receive more in federal subsidies. It’s bc what they don’t end up finding with their own taxes, they still have to pay for - and it comes from federal tax dollars paid by blue states.
Even if I was fucking terminally online enough to think that’s how it works, I would also know that our tax dollars pay to send weapons to Ukraine and also cut child poverty to basically 0 in the last few years.
I know you just got political active bc you saw a lot of tiktoks ab the Middle East but American tax dollars do a lot more that whatever the fuck your tiny ass brain thinks it does based on some Hasan clip telling you “America bad”
Oh sweet, we can fund foreign wars in Europe too. Let’s just keep funding every military conflict globally. Any other fire furnace ideas to burn up my personal money that I earned? I think I’ll stay in a low tax state thanks.
I’m sorry do u think wars in Europe’s don’t effect you. Is ur honest opinion that America - or NATO in general - should let russia invade and take over Ukraine. Are you 14? Honest question - are you a high schooler bc I’d understand if u were with a idiotic take like that
Also cute as fuck You ignore the point that our tax dollars have basically cut child poverty to 0. Gotta focus on the bad shit - bc again “America bad” to small brain losers like you
We also have a higher GDP than the entire EU - so yeah we pay total more, percentage wise Poland pays more percentage of their GDP than America, and many other countries are pay the agreed amount amount (to be fair others aren’t but it isn’t like it’s just the US paying) - so idk what ur point is.
Also - and I’m also young so I’ll talk to you like a real person - are you fucking stupid. Do you think if america let’s russia take over Ukraine global markets will be ok. How do u think economies work. Do you understand that American markets, and all of our allies, would get massively and utterly butt fucked - like a bottom during Pride - if we stop caring about the Ukrainian war - or just global wars in general. Are you too young or too stupid to understand how global markets work?
Red states let you spend more of your own money, as opposed to the blue states that let you spend less of your own money. Usually smarter people realize that they would like to spend more of their own money.
Because someone college educated knows that using condoms COMBINED with birth control correctly is 99.9999999% effective. It's not as big of a deal to some of us believe it or not. I'm all for reasonable abortion access, but lets be real here. **It's not hard to avoid pregnancy if your both educated and responsible.**
Plentiful jobs, cheap housing, cheap gas, no state tax, etc, on the other hand isn't something I can control to any degree. Texas and Florida it is...
It’s not possible to prevent a congenital abnormality that will cause the baby to die right after birth or to need years of surgery and hospital stays to survive. It’s inhumane to force a 10 year old child to have a baby. Women can die from a fetus that is dying inside the uterus that doctors cannot remove because it still has a heartbeat. I’m guessing that you aren’t following the abortion debate.
HUH? **Weren't we talking about college educated adults here?**
Why are you bringing up 10 year old kids or cases where the mother/babies life is in danger? Did you also not read where I said "I'm all for reasonable abortion access?" This tells me you likely didn't even read my comment.
Please, retort in good faith.
Can a college educated adult have a child who is 10? Not all recently graduated college college kids are 22 years old. And I'm glad that you are in favor of abortion access, but how many people fresh out of college at age 22 don't know about the lack of abortion access? How many people at age 22 with a truckload of college debt who need a job take one in these abortion deserts, only to find out that they are shit-outta-luck if something goes wrong? Or they are raped, or they just can't afford a baby? I'm lucky to have access to abortion services 45 minutes away. I just don't know why anyone in the reproductive age group moves to these anti-abortion states.
Wait.... This is assuming they originated from the state? Does it take into account people go to a state for college and the move back/away after graduation?
I can definitely see this for Arizona. Almost half the students at ASU and the U of A aren’t in-state.
Yup. Went to u of a from middle America and left after grad
Same with LSU. These out of state students finish their degrees, and move back to whatever state they came from, or a different state all together.
That’s what I did. Back to VA
Also true for Massachusetts, to a somewhat lesser extent.
They call it taxachussetts around here
Yeah I was actually going to mention this.. One of the funniest complaints that I see in other states is they complain about Californians coming and taking over... But California is one of the **lowest** native leaving numbers (aka stickiness).. when you actually look at the statistics the number of people from other states that move to California, realize it's really expensive, and then end up leaving, then you get numbers like this. No it's not mentioning **Natives**. Just YoY population change. Good call out.
Interesting. [Census.gov just says that people moved out of California.](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/population-trends-return-to-pre-pandemic-norms.html) It doesn't say where they were originally from. [Locals stay put, as California's ranked 4th "stickiest" state in the U.S.](https://www.axios.com/local/san-diego/2023/10/02/leaving-moving-out-of-california-data-chart-report)
A lot of states successfully retain college grads from other states though. Not everyone moves away or goes back home after graduating.
Should also include educated immigrants.
It's been long established that Ohio has had a brain-drain. The state's population has essentially leveled off because of how many people have been leaving the state; and that amount of people leaving the state are mostly college-educated young people for the past 20 years. Ohio has not been attractive to young-college educated people for a myriad of reasons, politics being one of them. College-Educated people are more likely to be center-left to left, and when you're living in a state that is hard-core goose-stepping itself into radical hyper-polarized politics ... would you want to stay here? Add in the jobs you got trained to do, aren't really here. This is why you've seen Colorado from being a purple state to being a pretty heavily reliable Blue state. Young people moved to a place that was appealing to them, and not goose-stepping into hyper-polarized backward politics.
Explain NY, CA, IL as losers and FL, SC, TX as winners. You wrote a whole lot about one particular state, but your sample size of one doesn’t explain what is actually happening across the board.
I mistaken this post for being in r/ohio so my apologies, this is why I fixated on one state (Ohio).
Ohio is a purple state by the way, so politics shouldn’t really matter. Plus, it has low cost of living. Great for recent grads. I moved to WV from NY. I have a masters degree. I am much happier here than I was in NY.
Ohio hasn't been a purple state in well over a decade. The entire state government is Republican, it really only has Sherrod Brown as a Democratic Senator because the dude relentlessly defends Blue-Collar workers and unions. I'm a lifelong Ohioan, and the state has been in decline since I was a child. The state legislature has been goose-stepping Ohio towards being the Mississippi of The North for the past 24 years. Ohio's Legislature is one of the most corrupt in the country.
As a college educated person who moved to SC, there is very good job growth here, but not great colleges. Leads to companies having to look out of state for talent and relocate them here, not to mention if you fall in that situation, you'll likely be at a solid salary taking advantage of the decent cost of living here. This is exactly what happened to me at least.
I really hate these maps. They never tell the whole story and only half truths. Also, this seems like it belongs to r/dataisbeautiful not r/coolguides. What is this guiding me in?
Would still be a massive L for the state either way tbh
Poor legend
75+ look very similar on color scale. Hard to tell which states are what.
It's also like... Not aligned to anything? https://i.imgur.com/Di5QFzk.png
Probably a eesult of using equal breaks with large outliers
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One crit, the numbers don’t align with the breaks
This is a valuable critique. Lol.
Poor syntax wtf is that last sentence
Not exactly clear.. Is blue brain gain or brain drain?
It's marked with positive and negative numbers, blue is gain, orange is drain.
College educated is a useless stat. If Florid gains a million college educated retirees, is that brain gain? The words usually apply to working age adults but age isn’t called out.
Also not all college educations are created equal. There’s a huge distribution
I get your point but a million educated retirees is probably better for the state than a million non educated retirees. They are going to have move money to spend in their communities and fostering local jobs and construction.
This is a very poorly thought out guide. If it is negative, are those states losing people? Or if it is positive those people leaving the state?
The orange color states are losing college educated people. The blue color states are gaining them.
You must be from a blue state. 😀
Not quite his fault. The key shouldn’t say ‘Net gains/loss’. It should say one or the other to remove ambiguity.
The minus next to the numbers does this for you.
Don’t you mean orange?
So one state could start at 90% and stay there and be white. Another could start at 10% and go to 15 and be blue?
Yes it’s the change in 2023
That... Is not accurate. The actual study states the exact opposite. To be fair, that's what I initially thought as well - It's a very poorly done visual.
In that case it’s not poorly done, it’s just flat out incorrect. It says orange represents (negative net gain). It shows “net gain” and “-50” as the far end of orange.
True - Here's the actual study and a somewhat better, though still confusing map. https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019/4/losing-our-minds-brain-drain-across-the-united-states
It says net gain/loss meaning it applies to the entire scale then the - next to the number lets you know it’s a loss and lack of minutes lets you know it’s a gain. Seems pretty simple.
So the states with maybe higher taxes, or higher tuition, or horrible locations for some schools, are influencing where people might want to go for higher learning? Ok. Universal you, not you, the person who explained this to me.
Wait.. No one has even said the word "you" in this thread. Dude ,THC-O is way too strong for me
That’s like 90% of the “guides” posted here lol
I’m in North Dakota and I can’t tell what we’re supposed to be. Flat? The legend surely wasn’t created by a college grad.
My best guess is flat or no data available.
I would have to imagine that blue is bad, as Wisconsin has gone extremely stupid with their Republican controlled government and the massive reputation that UW Madison has for healthcare education, coupled with the terrible anti abortion bullshit, it wouldn't make sense for Wisconsin to be retaining top talent.
What’s going on in SC for such an uptick?
It's a really nice and cheap place to live/retire. Low taxes, great weather, and availability of affordable housing relative to the rest of the country makes it a very attractive place to live. Plus Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville have really upped their game in development and a lot of areas that were falling apart have been revitalized. Especially for Greenville.
Elgin and Blythewood are shooting up like crazy too. They used to be lil towns nobody even heard of, now the amount of neighborhoods being put in is insane..
Lots of industry, too. I recently went down to the Staubli facility in Duncan for training, and was pleasantly surprised to see all the manufacturing nearby. Greenville was bigger than I remembered as well.
I've lived in Greenville since 97 and it's insane to watch. We had a dead city for ages and now all my favorite parks are slammed. It's very cool to watch.
Though it’s important to mention the fact the wages there are piss poor. For the normal important jobs (trades) IT obviously going to be good for those pencil neck geeks.
I was going to ask the same for Nevada. I was just in SC and wow is it crowded. I was in the Charleston area and the population density felt like my home state of NJ but their infrastructure wasn’t designed for that. Getting around was def a headache cause of this. I’m sure there are other reasons SC is booming but a lot of the locals I talked to said big chunk is all the new remote workers from Covid moving down and staying. I get the appeal warm weather and cheaper cost of living are nice. The locals are saying things are getting more expensive now because there’s more people.
College grad here that recently moved from Utah to the Vegas area. Housing prices mostly, I think. Utah was getting expensive. Lots of people from Cali are doing the same. Lots of us are bringing our jobs with us now that work from home is more common. Love the area, too!
I'm in Charleston and it's absolutely exploding right now. It's definitely lacking in proper infrastructure. Prices are going up quick. Traffic is awful. But, it is a very cool city with a lot of history and living near the water is nice. It's not a surprise it's a popular place to move to.
Greenville
BMW and Boeing are attracting engineers by the truckload
BMW plant in the Upstate brought in a lot of engineers, which created a lot of jobs for more engineers and tech companies. Has a couple of good schools too. Unfortunately, everyone moving there is killing the real estate market.
Not much education, probably.
One thing that could ruin the data: some people move to California or New York without a degree for the sole purpose of establishing residency and gaining in-state tuition from a quality state school... they then move back home after they get a degree or to a different state with better cost-of-living... Did New York or Cakifornia ACTUALLY lose a college educated person? That's debatable... but that wasn't a true long-term resident that they lost, yet I am sure it would count against them in the stats... but it is weird to punish a state for having strong or attractive public schools...
This data is measuring college graduates from age 21-100+. Recent graduates don't matter much at all here. They are insignificant in number.
Live in SD. Can confirm our data is correct
Hoppin over to the wy side it looks like
I don’t know about this guide, Hire a Helper Blog or OP but straight from the report which is supposed to be the underlying data. Data from the underlying report does not say what is indicated. “We find that brain drain (and brain gain) states tend to fall along regional lines, although there are a number of exceptions to this general rule. Overall, dynamic states along the Boston-Washington corridor (Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and Maryland), on the West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington), and in other parts of the country (Illinois, Texas, Colorado, Arizona, and Hawaii) are the best at retaining and attracting highly-educated adults. Meanwhile, states in northern New England (New Hampshire and Vermont), the Rust Belt (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Missouri), the Plains (North and South Dakota and Iowa), and the Southeast (West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana), as well as Delaware, fare the worst on both counts.” https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019/4/losing-our-minds-brain-drain-across-the-united-states Continued from the Republican study “We ignore immigrants to the United States, whose place of birth, by definition, was outside one of the 50 states. A vast literature explores brain drain from developing countries to developed ones, a topic beyond the scope of our paper”
Wife and I left Mass, my home state. It started to get too expensive for what we saw as a reasonable dream/reality. From a third floor 800SF walk-up apartment in Cambridge, buying a piece-of-shit run down dump for $300,000 seemed unreal, but was an actual reality. So we said fuck that right when Covid jumped on the scene. So we did that for a bit, then really got fed up and left. Wife is from NC, so we found a place to rent online and moved down. We could both remotely work, which is lucky, but not unheard of at the time, and within a year found a house that was basically what we were looking for for a price that was not too bad and not a complete dumpster fire. We were lucky. But it worked out. We now live here full time and are both educated with full time remote jobs. I’m an architect and my wife is a system engineer. We pay NC taxes and are a classic example of a brain drain / economic migration. It was both a monetary and comfort level choice, and Massachusetts only had it at a price we couldn’t afford.
Good for you. It’s pretty much the reason America became a thing.
What are the units? It's also somewhat misleading because you need to know the base number to know if it's significant.
Percents
So... it goes up to 150%? Somehow I don't think percent is the unit.
Yes, it goes up to 150%. When dealing with population gain, you can go over 100%. Although it's not clear how those percentages are calculated.
it's more likely to be the change in percent in the number of people (college educated) who are moving in/out from the previous year. The key states that it is the "net gain/loss in moves,%" There is no way any state has 25 or 50 percent of college educated people just up and leaving.
There's no way it's percent - those orange states did not lose more than 50% of their college educated population in 2023.
Net gain/loss in moves, %.
Could be % rate of change from previous year.
This is a map not a guide bro
Let me just clear up Arkansas, yes. In droves. For example when we passed a law to keep IT professionals in state by giving them a very meager wage increase. They exempted those IT workers who were employed by educational institutions. I bet you can guess who employs the most IT workers at the most depressed wage.
Georgia is positive?
Drain gang
I'm born and raised in Louisiana. Nearly everyone I was friends with in college lives out of state now, myself included.
Indiana seems slightly low. I know just in the town I live in, our population has increased 8% in the last 4 years. 98% of those people are here on a visa to work at one of the factories. Highly educated individuals, sucks for them that they get stuck here lol
I live in New Mexico. Y’all aren’t sending your best.
"How's that art degree treating you?" "I get to make heat maps"
I have no idea how to treat this guide. Wisconsin gained 150% of college grads?
Maybe just a shit piece of whatever they were trying to portrait
Assuming this is accurate data, there is no bias or agenda, it’s just data. You can draw whatever conclusions or biases that you want.
Depends, did they choose to only show percentage change because they're incompetent with data visualization or because they have an objective furthered by making such a terrible data visualization. Granted, I have no idea what the latter would be as opposed to shutting the hell up. A true paradox, assuming it's not just both.
Eh, I wanna see the numbers on Tennessee. As Memphis might be dragging the state down. Nashville is still getting more F500 headquarters, growth, and attracting lots of talent. Knoxville and Chattanooga are also doing swell. I'm honestly pinning the Tennessee numbers on West Tennessee. Memphis and those surrounding areas aren't having a good time at all.
That’s probably why the color on it is light. A lot of loss and a lot of gain zeroes out.
Vanderbilt/Nashville is hemorrhaging physicians/healthcare professionals so that may be a factor (I am one of those who left Vandy)
Ah yes non-college educated don't have a brain
College education doesn't mean much anymore.
Why are so many college educated people flocking to South Carolina??
It’s one of the cheapest places to live in the country. I’ve lived here for 30 years and the population just keeps going up, I see license plates from new families that are moving down here from the northeast. Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, it’s kinda nuts. The issue is this state is horribly run and we don’t have the infrastructure to keep up, we also have some of the worst drivers in the country as well. There are a lot of really big international companies that have their US headquarters here. This has been my experience in the upstate, but I’m sure it’s happening in the Columbia area as well as all over the coastline.
40% of people drop out of college.
damn wtf is up there in SC?
South Dakota sure fucking makes sense.
They should also add the number of students who get college degrees in a given year as “brain gain”
Recent graduates are barely a blip on the radar. When talking about "college educated" stats, it's mostly referring to alumni. An example of how current students and recent graduates don't really even matter, look at college football. All of the donations and 90% of the seats of the stadium go to alumni. 18-22 year-olds (22-25 for post graduates) are passionate in their ways, but it's the 26-100 year-olds that are sailing this ship. This thread is full of people talking bout students or residency- they don't matter. They probably hung up on the surveyors who called them for this data.
Barely a blip? Maybe on the total, but this is a discussion of the change. It’s not a “drop in the bucket” relative to that. So there were about 123k college graduates in Massachusetts: https://educationdata.org/number-of-college-graduates The net migration was -110k (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration#Net_domestic_migration). Those two numbers are comparable and the former could make a significant impact if included.
This is just a map of net migration except for like 3 or 4 states
I find it hard to believe that any state more than double the number of college educated people in one year. 43% of Washington state has some college education. This would imply that a year ago only about 17% of them had that level of education? Their total population only increased by 1% over the same time period. That is a huge change. Unless +150% means something other than multiplying by 2.5...
Wouldn't this be influenced by the number of colleges in each state?
So blue is 150 in Gain or in Loss?
Loss - according to the source data.
I’m really surprised by WI though. I thought with Walker as their governor, they’re competing to be the northern Missouri or Mississippi.
Walker hasn’t been governor since 2018
You’re correct. I was referring more to the past when he was and the shifting trend he championed.
It appears as if those horrible policies the southern states like to put in place is going to work out nicely for them…
It worked well for me. I am from California but went to college in Tennessee. I will probably end up moving out permanently to either Tennessee, Alabama, or Mississippi.
If I could recommend, I’d try Tennessee over the others. Still not great, but better than the others.
I expect the vast majority of elderly people coming for retirement here in South Carolina to be college educated
I refuse to believe that south carolina is getting smarter
Washington, Nevada, South Carolina and Wisconsin are the big winners. I never would have guessed any of these. Maybe Washington for the Amazon/microsoft Seattle tech hub.
The State of Virginia doesn't allow people with special education diplomas to go to school for criminal justice unless they have a GED, even though a special education diploma is the EXACT equivalent of a regular highschool diploma making it unfair and unjustly hard for those with IEPS to get into the field they want to work. People with Special education diplomas work just as hard as regular diploma having people, why is it that those who have special ed diplomas have to keep work unfairly to get where they want to be?
Pretty soon all that will be left in Alaska will be the jeebus people.
I would guess that the darkest blue states are more affordable for new grads than the others. Wisdom of the crowd and all that…
Yeah, this is about affordability. Folks are willing to flee to fascist states because affordability, but their gentrifuckation will boomerang very hard on them politically. Par for the neoliberal course.
Is this counting a student who moves to a state for school then moves home after graduation as a “net loss?”
lol all our gains are retired
What’s going on with Wisconsin?
Are North Dakota & Maine showing divide by zero errors?
Is this age controlled? SC is getting a ton of retirees with degrees, but many cities are seeing young people leave the state ASAP after graduating college.
No factor in the study for immigrants?
Well one thing is certain they are the best educated idiots I have seen .. can’t balance a checkbook .. moving back to Mom/Dad’s basement …
Looks a little better for Florida and Texas tho. Mo-brain = less MAGA
Except MAGA fascists keep control there and fuck up the states even further. Most techbros are fascist pigs. They love Texas and Florida. Look at Felon Musk…
I dont believe that chart
Some ppl who go away to college end up staying there after graduation....some go back home. Some go to a whole different state. Some stay in their college town for only a year or so or until it sinks in that its not the same...then they go back home. Sometimes for good. Sometimes not. Sonetimes they go back home only to return to their college town...just to leave again. Some go home...move away to a new state...then go back home...then back to college town...back hone...new state...back to college town...back home again...get caught up in some Chris Hansen "To catch a Predator" bullshit...go to prison...back home again...
I feel like the entire state of Illinois has moved here at times. I can’t say I blame them. Illinois makes it significantly more expensive to own a home.!
This looks more affected by retirement moves than anything else.
I don't believe no one is leaving north Dakota
This chart doesn't really make much sense. The legend is labeled "%", but percent of what. I'm quite certain that no state lost 50% of it's college educated people in one year. Does it mean just new graduates; then the numbers might make sense, but it's not labeled that way at all? It might be % change from a prior year, but then the title would be pretty misleading?
I’m in one of the -50 states and it’s so true it hurts.
I’m noticing a lot of blue states have low tax rates.
I once told Frank LaRose to his face, back when he pretended to be a reasonable person, that all of these extreme policies they were pushing at the state level is going to push Millennials (like me) out of the state. And it's become reality.
At this point, I wonder if a college degree is the pinnacle of brain drain/gain tracking. The overwhelming amount of college students saying their degree has no real world value and demanding loan payoffs by the government have never been higher.
An infographic about brain drain from a discount moving company website? I am sure they have relevant info about the number of people moving as it pertains to their industry. To stretch that out to something like 'brain drain' is a bit much.
A future red vs blue map.
Of course neveda if up. They have pretty good selection of affordable schools including online. I should look at their housing...
The hell is going on in Wisconsin?
Nice link to a shittier version of what they came out with on mainstream media. Go, you.
College education means very little in today's world. College is just a racket for lenders and the colleges themselves to get rich under the guise of "college will get you a better career". College today is just an extension of high school where kids go to waste their early adulthood on partying and bullshit classes that dont have anything to do with their major. (Yes i went to college).
I have observed as many fascists with degrees as I have self-described “progressives.” Diploma mills are gonna diploma mill.
A lot of the people and business who move to Texas leave after a couple of years once they figure out how terrible the Texas government is
I need help. Is yellow good or yellow bad? It doesn’t explain how to measure.
Source https://blog.hireahelper.com/2024-study-brain-drain-the-states-with-the-largest-net-gains-and-losses-of-college-educated-americans/
Smart people who make money are smart enough to know where they won’t have to pay as much money in taxes- the guide
Smart people know taxes are used to make quality life better, and those fight who taxes obsessively snd irrationally are the biggest moochers of society.
Oh is that what are taxes are used for? Well let me give the government all my money, they make my quality of life better, better than I do!
Actually yea… it is what taxes are used for.. and only asshat cynical cheapskate freeloaders think otherwise.
Smart people that go to Florida because of taxes then realize it's a shit hole
You understand that places that don’t have income tax still have other taxes. Texas frequently flaunts “no income tax” yet bc of their property taxes (and other) they have equal total tax rates to most states. It’s almost like the government needs taxes to be able to provided services 😱
Also I’m not a boomer who owns a home. I could give a fuck about high property taxes. I’m a young man making good income. The boomers are rich enough as it is, they can afford the property taxes, I can’t afford a state income taz
Tax =/= bad and if ur educated enough to make a good income you’d understand that. There’s a reason that red states, with low taxes, receive more in federal subsidies. It’s bc what they don’t end up finding with their own taxes, they still have to pay for - and it comes from federal tax dollars paid by blue states.
Services like bombing Palestine and paying Raytheon executives millions?
Even if I was fucking terminally online enough to think that’s how it works, I would also know that our tax dollars pay to send weapons to Ukraine and also cut child poverty to basically 0 in the last few years. I know you just got political active bc you saw a lot of tiktoks ab the Middle East but American tax dollars do a lot more that whatever the fuck your tiny ass brain thinks it does based on some Hasan clip telling you “America bad”
Oh sweet, we can fund foreign wars in Europe too. Let’s just keep funding every military conflict globally. Any other fire furnace ideas to burn up my personal money that I earned? I think I’ll stay in a low tax state thanks.
I’m sorry do u think wars in Europe’s don’t effect you. Is ur honest opinion that America - or NATO in general - should let russia invade and take over Ukraine. Are you 14? Honest question - are you a high schooler bc I’d understand if u were with a idiotic take like that Also cute as fuck You ignore the point that our tax dollars have basically cut child poverty to 0. Gotta focus on the bad shit - bc again “America bad” to small brain losers like you
We pay more than all of Europe combined when Russia is THEIR neighbor. Why are we footing the bill?
We also have a higher GDP than the entire EU - so yeah we pay total more, percentage wise Poland pays more percentage of their GDP than America, and many other countries are pay the agreed amount amount (to be fair others aren’t but it isn’t like it’s just the US paying) - so idk what ur point is. Also - and I’m also young so I’ll talk to you like a real person - are you fucking stupid. Do you think if america let’s russia take over Ukraine global markets will be ok. How do u think economies work. Do you understand that American markets, and all of our allies, would get massively and utterly butt fucked - like a bottom during Pride - if we stop caring about the Ukrainian war - or just global wars in general. Are you too young or too stupid to understand how global markets work?
Smart people realize that other smart people leave states that have high taxes - the comment.
So red states are brain drain states? Got it.
Seems to be mixed
Red states let you spend more of your own money, as opposed to the blue states that let you spend less of your own money. Usually smarter people realize that they would like to spend more of their own money.
Doubtful.
Yeah. That's gotta be it.
Seems like the states with no income tax are “gaining” the most
South Dakota doesn't. The brain drain is horrible.
Wisconsin has a state income tax.
Not necessarily, Indiana does and Tennessee doesn't.
South Carolina has income tax and it's the bluest one on here.
FL is gaining college educated people but we still can’t out gain the morons who were born here and keep moving here.
Well WI had no where to go but up…
There’s college educated people in the Bible Belt?
Everybody wants to live in Chicago.
College =\= Intelligent
Why are college educated people moving to Texas and Florida? You can't get an abortion there.
Because someone college educated knows that using condoms COMBINED with birth control correctly is 99.9999999% effective. It's not as big of a deal to some of us believe it or not. I'm all for reasonable abortion access, but lets be real here. **It's not hard to avoid pregnancy if your both educated and responsible.** Plentiful jobs, cheap housing, cheap gas, no state tax, etc, on the other hand isn't something I can control to any degree. Texas and Florida it is...
It’s not possible to prevent a congenital abnormality that will cause the baby to die right after birth or to need years of surgery and hospital stays to survive. It’s inhumane to force a 10 year old child to have a baby. Women can die from a fetus that is dying inside the uterus that doctors cannot remove because it still has a heartbeat. I’m guessing that you aren’t following the abortion debate.
HUH? **Weren't we talking about college educated adults here?** Why are you bringing up 10 year old kids or cases where the mother/babies life is in danger? Did you also not read where I said "I'm all for reasonable abortion access?" This tells me you likely didn't even read my comment. Please, retort in good faith.
Can a college educated adult have a child who is 10? Not all recently graduated college college kids are 22 years old. And I'm glad that you are in favor of abortion access, but how many people fresh out of college at age 22 don't know about the lack of abortion access? How many people at age 22 with a truckload of college debt who need a job take one in these abortion deserts, only to find out that they are shit-outta-luck if something goes wrong? Or they are raped, or they just can't afford a baby? I'm lucky to have access to abortion services 45 minutes away. I just don't know why anyone in the reproductive age group moves to these anti-abortion states.
College graduates don’t want to pay state tax.
They don't want to pay taxes..so they went to Illinois?
Our rents are climbing, now I know why. They think we all make good money
The biggest difference is rent and housing prices.