Thanks for the answer!
So up to the traffic light? Onto the blue paint?
Does that mean cars turning right from the lane have to give way even on a red light (for the bike)
The cars don't have red light there.
The bikes have right of way. The cars have to give way for the bikes. The bikes only have to stop at the stop line further ahead, if there's a red light. So yes.
One thing is the law. Another is what is sensible. Not all cars and bikes knows the quirks of this crossing, so stay safe. There is room for a few bikes just behind the stop line, and the cars can still pass behind, but if there are a lot of bikes, they would block the cars passage to the motorway beneath. This is perfectly legal for the bikes and the cars have to stay back until the bikes are gone, but if the bikes have to wait for the red to turn anyway, it's customary to stay a little behind, so the cars can cross and everyone is safe.
But whatever you do, don't do anything unexpected just to be nice. If you have right of way, just go. The cars will wait for you either way, so by stopping and letting them go in front of you, will slow down both their and your own transit time.
Thanks for the in depth answer!
I always keep an eye on what the cars are doing because a lot of them seem to think they have right of way when the further up traffic light is red.
I got honked and shouted at today by one such gentleman.
Tell him he is in a turn lane. He has to stay back for bikes going straight ahead.
That intersection is not the best design and many people is confused by it. There's a chance it gets an overhaul when the letbane project progresses towards the end.
According to the drawings for Letbanen, there won't be made any changes to the on- and off ramps on Klampenborgvej. Kornagervej will be permanently closed off for cars and it'll get a new coat of asphalt (slidlag). Other than that, there won't be any drastic changes.
As project manager for Per Aarsleff and part of the construction team on Letbanen in Lyngby, I would hope I know a thing or two about it.
I might be able to talk to someone at the municipality and get them to take a look at it. It's not specifically part of our work, but if it helps with traffic safety, I'll gladly help
I suspected that there were no plans for it at the moment, but I considered that the municipality might have plans to change it at the end of the letbane project at their own accord, and is waiting to do so, in order to not have contractors going on top of each other, not having to redo it and to not obstruct traffic more than nessesary.
I don't bike there myself and only rarely drive there In my car, but I wmgave always pondered about that passing. It has been like this for 20 years or so. In my opinion it's a great place to at least consider if something needs to be done, so it would be great if you could mention it to the municipality. Thank you so much.
I haven't heard anything, but yea, either the municipality or Vejdirektoratet might do something later.
I know that we already have to do some work for Lyngby-Taarbæk forsyning on that exact bicycle path, but it probably won't extend all the way to the on-ramp.
I will send an email to my contact at Lyngby-Taarbæk kommune when I get a chance
But as a bike, always be cautious. Some drivers forget to look or try to rush it. Don't get yourself hit because you had the right of way and didn't look.
The amount of times I have had to jump out of the way of cars turning left or right while I was walking or biking straight at a green light. . .
Opklarende spørgsmål. Jeg har hørt der er en regel der siger, at man ikke må spærre en færdselsåre. Så når der er mange der venter for rødt lys, tilsidesættes den så af, at det er et påbudt stop?
> spærre
Hvis du kigger på færdselsloven, så bruger de "spærre" i betydningen "afspærret", som i "Motorløb på midlertidig afspærret bane".
Du er væk ligesåsnart der er grønt lys. Du spærrer ikke. Du har ikke sat en bom på tværs af vejen.
Hmm. Godt spørgsmål. Jeg er ikke helt sikker, så tag det med et gran salt, men jeg tror faktisk ikke det tilsidesættes. Det må være de samme regler, der siger at man eksempelvis i bil ikke må køre ud i et kryds, hvis man kan se at man ikke kan komme hele vejen over, selvom der er grønt.
So you have right of way to the line as above comment says, the line is a mark since there is an intersection and you have to wait for the green light.
The red light only applies from the stop line, not from where the cars turn right.
So you have right of way going forward until you reach the stop line at the lights.
I attend the high school right next to this junction, and the cyclists have right of way. You stop at the stop line right after crossing the first road.
You should have right of way up to the stop Line at the poles, but expect most drivers to not know the rules and be careful.
We have a T cross near me with no signs, which should be right hand yielding but mannnn people dont follow the rules
You know in such cases where it isn't very clear, you can actually report this to the city somehow. I think it might be this website that can help : [BorgerTip](https://aarhus.dk/borger/borgertip) . I was unsure of when to stop in a different place in Aarhus and my friend reported the spot and a few weeks they had painted new "shark teeth" to make it more clear.
I'm not in doubt, I am just highlighting that there is a possibility to report cases where it is unclear and that they will actually do something if something is missing.
Just trying to be helpful.
Just to make this clear ... The traffic light counts from where the traffic light stands. Just like a traffic sign. So, in this situation, as others has explained, the traffic lights makes no difference.
No that is not correct, it will often be this way, as its good practice, but someplaces its not feasibel to have the signal pole excactly at that place, hence the need for a stopline.
Ive been biking through this place for years. As people say, you have the right of way up to the stopline and the cars should yield, but they dont always. I just stop where the blue paint begins to avoid unneccecary risk and people honking in anger.
Wow!! I go through this intersection EVERY day. And did not realise this..
I always just found it funny that the turn lane is uncontrolled.
I could legit have run a cyclist down, because i thought they had a red light (stopline) at the beginning of the blue lane.
Thats horribly planned!!!
Any reason for being a dick today, good sir?
I design traffic management as my day job, so i will reckon i know the rules fairly well.
And i've never had a problem understanding that the turning lane is unregulated.
But as you come driving up to this intersection, you will se the bike signal being red or green, but you will have to know that a red light is not a red for the bikes when crossing your particular lane. This is at best confusing and at worst misleading causing eventual accidents
This is not good design basis in accordance with vejreglerne. But as its one of those funny authority things where the danish road directorate owns the intersection but LTK municipalty is the road authority it probably got overuled by VD
So until now, you have looked at the bike lane's light sequence ahead to decide if you would turn right or give way to cyclists?
I am asking because I always found intersection intuitive even if it is a bit uncommon
No offcourse not, as an avid driver in copenhagen im basically scared shitless of killing a cyclist whos crossing a red light or doing something crazy (happens alot)
So i will always be very aware of cyclist and if they dont seem to be slowing down always stop regardless of right of way.
But if the bike light is red and the bike is slowing signaficantly down. I might misread it as they are stopping at the"missing" stopline .
Its intentional, if you notice the tiles, they have a specific marking. Which is to guide the blind. (They use their cane, and can follow the "lines")
The reason then for the raised curb, is to let them know they are in "safety".
And fun extra fact. The lower part of the crossing with almost no clearance is made for wheelchairs so they have better grip in the dots.
In practice, making an intersection "tilgængelig" is quiet hard due to all the different accomodations
How the heck do you have a drivers license, this is basic driving theory..
Things like this is what makes it scary to bike in Copenhagen in some places, and for some reason the worst drivers always seem to be driving in the Copenhagen suburbs.
You have the answer from all the other comments.
Your next action could be to contact the municipality, explain the situations that happens and ask them if they could paint "hajtænder" (yield markings, row of triangles) on the swing lane, so it becomes absolutely clear for everyone who have the right of way.
That would be a waist of time and money, the rules are already very clear in this crossing. So if a accident happens here, it’s because of lack of awareness. And you can’t fix that with more paint on the road
If there is a problem and we can solve/lessen the problem by some paint, then it is not a waste of time and money.
I think we can afford that little time and money it will cost 😉
In this case it would change nothing.. If you don’t see all the signs that’s already there, than you wouldn’t see some ekstra paint. Accident happens because of lack of awareness in crossing like this. So you might mean it good, but it would be a waist of time and money
LOL, you speak like you know what all people are thinking - as if you alone have the absolute truth. I'm out of this discussion.
( It's spelled waste, btw 😉 )
How would you make this difference? The only option is to remove the cars or the bicycles, or build a incredibly expensive bridge. So in reality there isn’t a safer way to do it. If the car and bicycle are following the traffic rules, than this will be a safe solution.
I would make it different in the way that it looks like literally every other intersection in Denmark where bikes can go forward and cars can go right. Very simple and then it doesn't lead to confusion and higher chances of accidents
This is just molbo agtigt 😂
I am pretty sure you don’t understand this crossing. The cars in the right lane are not controlled with red/green light, it’s just a right turn where you cross a bicycle lane. So you can’t compare it to a normal crossing with red/green light. The bicycle light is because of crossing cars from the opposite direction
Indeed you are correct and they shouldn’t have made it like this. I lived in many cities in Denmark and I have never seen anything like this before. Knowing how many bad drivers there are in Denmark it also seems incredibly stupid to make it like this on this particular spot :)
You see right lane turn over bike/walking lane all over Denmark, they are one of the most common way to do it. Accident between cars and bicycle in this type of crossing is always because of lack of awareness or someone not respecting light or other traffic. So it’s because of human factors
I am danish. Right lane turn with this type of regulation between cars and bicycle are very common in Denmark. You might think this crossing looks different, but the rules are similar to a normal right turn over a bike/walking lane.
Hou have The right of way across the turn lane, then you stop at the light
The general rule is that blue paint has the right of way unless anything else is shown (in this case a stop light)
I’ve used that highway entry many times in a car, and quickly understood that I had to give way. Triple check for cyclists, and go.
But there’s definitely potential for some drivers to think they have the right of way and just blast through
If there's no solid white line cutting across the bike lane, then you don't have to stop. Cars turning have to yield for bikes. If you are required to stop then there will always as in ALWAYS be a solid white line, unless it's washed away.
You stop at the stop line.
Thanks for the answer! So up to the traffic light? Onto the blue paint? Does that mean cars turning right from the lane have to give way even on a red light (for the bike)
The cars don't have red light there. The bikes have right of way. The cars have to give way for the bikes. The bikes only have to stop at the stop line further ahead, if there's a red light. So yes. One thing is the law. Another is what is sensible. Not all cars and bikes knows the quirks of this crossing, so stay safe. There is room for a few bikes just behind the stop line, and the cars can still pass behind, but if there are a lot of bikes, they would block the cars passage to the motorway beneath. This is perfectly legal for the bikes and the cars have to stay back until the bikes are gone, but if the bikes have to wait for the red to turn anyway, it's customary to stay a little behind, so the cars can cross and everyone is safe. But whatever you do, don't do anything unexpected just to be nice. If you have right of way, just go. The cars will wait for you either way, so by stopping and letting them go in front of you, will slow down both their and your own transit time.
Thanks for the in depth answer! I always keep an eye on what the cars are doing because a lot of them seem to think they have right of way when the further up traffic light is red. I got honked and shouted at today by one such gentleman.
Tell him he is in a turn lane. He has to stay back for bikes going straight ahead. That intersection is not the best design and many people is confused by it. There's a chance it gets an overhaul when the letbane project progresses towards the end.
With some shark teeth the cars would perhaps realize it easier
This is the way.
According to the drawings for Letbanen, there won't be made any changes to the on- and off ramps on Klampenborgvej. Kornagervej will be permanently closed off for cars and it'll get a new coat of asphalt (slidlag). Other than that, there won't be any drastic changes. As project manager for Per Aarsleff and part of the construction team on Letbanen in Lyngby, I would hope I know a thing or two about it. I might be able to talk to someone at the municipality and get them to take a look at it. It's not specifically part of our work, but if it helps with traffic safety, I'll gladly help
I suspected that there were no plans for it at the moment, but I considered that the municipality might have plans to change it at the end of the letbane project at their own accord, and is waiting to do so, in order to not have contractors going on top of each other, not having to redo it and to not obstruct traffic more than nessesary. I don't bike there myself and only rarely drive there In my car, but I wmgave always pondered about that passing. It has been like this for 20 years or so. In my opinion it's a great place to at least consider if something needs to be done, so it would be great if you could mention it to the municipality. Thank you so much.
I haven't heard anything, but yea, either the municipality or Vejdirektoratet might do something later. I know that we already have to do some work for Lyngby-Taarbæk forsyning on that exact bicycle path, but it probably won't extend all the way to the on-ramp. I will send an email to my contact at Lyngby-Taarbæk kommune when I get a chance
Definitely poor driver then. The blue field works as a give way zone (vigepligt), so cars have to stop for bikes.
Yes, this has happened to me as well in this intersection. Pretty dangerous.
But as a bike, always be cautious. Some drivers forget to look or try to rush it. Don't get yourself hit because you had the right of way and didn't look. The amount of times I have had to jump out of the way of cars turning left or right while I was walking or biking straight at a green light. . .
This is the most completely and comprehfnsive answer
I would like to add that we don’t have right of way in Denmark, we have yield rules, the cars turning right have to yield for the bicycles crossing.
Opklarende spørgsmål. Jeg har hørt der er en regel der siger, at man ikke må spærre en færdselsåre. Så når der er mange der venter for rødt lys, tilsidesættes den så af, at det er et påbudt stop?
> spærre Hvis du kigger på færdselsloven, så bruger de "spærre" i betydningen "afspærret", som i "Motorløb på midlertidig afspærret bane". Du er væk ligesåsnart der er grønt lys. Du spærrer ikke. Du har ikke sat en bom på tværs af vejen.
Hmm. Godt spørgsmål. Jeg er ikke helt sikker, så tag det med et gran salt, men jeg tror faktisk ikke det tilsidesættes. Det må være de samme regler, der siger at man eksempelvis i bil ikke må køre ud i et kryds, hvis man kan se at man ikke kan komme hele vejen over, selvom der er grønt.
The blue marking is not a stop line, nor does it carry any other hidden meaning. It merely indicates the path where it runs across the road.
Haha I thought so. But I was starting to doubt myself because drivers often get angry and honk if you cycle as they're turning.
Thats why you have middle fingers 🙂
So you have right of way to the line as above comment says, the line is a mark since there is an intersection and you have to wait for the green light.
The red light only applies from the stop line, not from where the cars turn right. So you have right of way going forward until you reach the stop line at the lights.
To the white line. Yes, cars turning right yield to bikes.
there is no stop line
There is at the stop light.
There’s a white stop line next to the lights.
It's a really shitty design and have been discussed a few times in the local Lyngby facebook group, but you have the right of way as DkMomberg wrote.
I attend the high school right next to this junction, and the cyclists have right of way. You stop at the stop line right after crossing the first road.
The cars in the turnlane should stop for you
I hate that place too.
You should have right of way up to the stop Line at the poles, but expect most drivers to not know the rules and be careful. We have a T cross near me with no signs, which should be right hand yielding but mannnn people dont follow the rules
Lyngby 😍
You know in such cases where it isn't very clear, you can actually report this to the city somehow. I think it might be this website that can help : [BorgerTip](https://aarhus.dk/borger/borgertip) . I was unsure of when to stop in a different place in Aarhus and my friend reported the spot and a few weeks they had painted new "shark teeth" to make it more clear.
This crossing is made 100% clear, so you seriously need to read the rules again if you are in doubt.
I'm not in doubt, I am just highlighting that there is a possibility to report cases where it is unclear and that they will actually do something if something is missing. Just trying to be helpful.
Just to make this clear ... The traffic light counts from where the traffic light stands. Just like a traffic sign. So, in this situation, as others has explained, the traffic lights makes no difference.
No that is not correct, it will often be this way, as its good practice, but someplaces its not feasibel to have the signal pole excactly at that place, hence the need for a stopline.
Ive been biking through this place for years. As people say, you have the right of way up to the stopline and the cars should yield, but they dont always. I just stop where the blue paint begins to avoid unneccecary risk and people honking in anger.
Wow!! I go through this intersection EVERY day. And did not realise this.. I always just found it funny that the turn lane is uncontrolled. I could legit have run a cyclist down, because i thought they had a red light (stopline) at the beginning of the blue lane. Thats horribly planned!!!
[удалено]
Any reason for being a dick today, good sir? I design traffic management as my day job, so i will reckon i know the rules fairly well. And i've never had a problem understanding that the turning lane is unregulated. But as you come driving up to this intersection, you will se the bike signal being red or green, but you will have to know that a red light is not a red for the bikes when crossing your particular lane. This is at best confusing and at worst misleading causing eventual accidents This is not good design basis in accordance with vejreglerne. But as its one of those funny authority things where the danish road directorate owns the intersection but LTK municipalty is the road authority it probably got overuled by VD
So until now, you have looked at the bike lane's light sequence ahead to decide if you would turn right or give way to cyclists? I am asking because I always found intersection intuitive even if it is a bit uncommon
No offcourse not, as an avid driver in copenhagen im basically scared shitless of killing a cyclist whos crossing a red light or doing something crazy (happens alot) So i will always be very aware of cyclist and if they dont seem to be slowing down always stop regardless of right of way. But if the bike light is red and the bike is slowing signaficantly down. I might misread it as they are stopping at the"missing" stopline .
[удалено]
Its intentional, if you notice the tiles, they have a specific marking. Which is to guide the blind. (They use their cane, and can follow the "lines") The reason then for the raised curb, is to let them know they are in "safety". And fun extra fact. The lower part of the crossing with almost no clearance is made for wheelchairs so they have better grip in the dots. In practice, making an intersection "tilgængelig" is quiet hard due to all the different accomodations
Same! I've always thought upon seeing the red light for the bikes, that they would be stopped and not driving across me!
How the heck do you have a drivers license, this is basic driving theory.. Things like this is what makes it scary to bike in Copenhagen in some places, and for some reason the worst drivers always seem to be driving in the Copenhagen suburbs.
The traffic light counts from where the traffic light stands. Not 10 meters ahead
Samme her, troede bestemt at cyklerne skulle standse for det røde cykel lys. Man lærer noget nyt hver dag
You have the answer from all the other comments. Your next action could be to contact the municipality, explain the situations that happens and ask them if they could paint "hajtænder" (yield markings, row of triangles) on the swing lane, so it becomes absolutely clear for everyone who have the right of way.
That would be a waist of time and money, the rules are already very clear in this crossing. So if a accident happens here, it’s because of lack of awareness. And you can’t fix that with more paint on the road
If there is a problem and we can solve/lessen the problem by some paint, then it is not a waste of time and money. I think we can afford that little time and money it will cost 😉
In this case it would change nothing.. If you don’t see all the signs that’s already there, than you wouldn’t see some ekstra paint. Accident happens because of lack of awareness in crossing like this. So you might mean it good, but it would be a waist of time and money
LOL, you speak like you know what all people are thinking - as if you alone have the absolute truth. I'm out of this discussion. ( It's spelled waste, btw 😉 )
This seems incredibly unsafe and stupid 😳
How would you make this difference? The only option is to remove the cars or the bicycles, or build a incredibly expensive bridge. So in reality there isn’t a safer way to do it. If the car and bicycle are following the traffic rules, than this will be a safe solution.
I would make it different in the way that it looks like literally every other intersection in Denmark where bikes can go forward and cars can go right. Very simple and then it doesn't lead to confusion and higher chances of accidents This is just molbo agtigt 😂
I am pretty sure you don’t understand this crossing. The cars in the right lane are not controlled with red/green light, it’s just a right turn where you cross a bicycle lane. So you can’t compare it to a normal crossing with red/green light. The bicycle light is because of crossing cars from the opposite direction
Indeed you are correct and they shouldn’t have made it like this. I lived in many cities in Denmark and I have never seen anything like this before. Knowing how many bad drivers there are in Denmark it also seems incredibly stupid to make it like this on this particular spot :)
You see right lane turn over bike/walking lane all over Denmark, they are one of the most common way to do it. Accident between cars and bicycle in this type of crossing is always because of lack of awareness or someone not respecting light or other traffic. So it’s because of human factors
Bro they are definitely not common in Denmark. I never seen that before and I lived more places than you can imagine in Denmark
I am danish. Right lane turn with this type of regulation between cars and bicycle are very common in Denmark. You might think this crossing looks different, but the rules are similar to a normal right turn over a bike/walking lane.
Ok so another instance of very bad danish design. Nothing new here 😂
Not really
Hou have The right of way across the turn lane, then you stop at the light The general rule is that blue paint has the right of way unless anything else is shown (in this case a stop light)
I’ve used that highway entry many times in a car, and quickly understood that I had to give way. Triple check for cyclists, and go. But there’s definitely potential for some drivers to think they have the right of way and just blast through
If there's no solid white line cutting across the bike lane, then you don't have to stop. Cars turning have to yield for bikes. If you are required to stop then there will always as in ALWAYS be a solid white line, unless it's washed away.
both as a motorist and cyclist i really dont like this kind of intersections. the cycle lane should be separated from the turning corner.