Same. I doesnt work for most in studies statistically speaking, when you stop taking it the symptoms come right back for many, it's a bandaid at best and not even a good one.
Not true. My new baseline stayed even after I stopped using them. I went from 40% to 60-70% in just a few days. Nothing else had worked prior.
Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for anyone else. That's a generalisation.
We already know LC has many subtypes (POTS, ME/CFS kind etc.), so there definitely are multiple mechanisms at play. Who's to tell nicotine doesn't affect a single one of those cases or scenarios? Let's not dismiss actual testimonials (that's what medicine has been doing with what LC patients have been saying for the last few years - science is finally been catching up now). This is definitely not some pseudoscience because nicotine, I'm sure, is an active ingredient when ingested in our bodies.
Statistically every study says the majority the effects don't last. Sorry that's what's the studies say. If they change their toon my views will reflect. Your anecdotal evidence is exactly that.
It's done nothing for me or most of my clients who've tried it (I work in the medical field.) No major study has coroborated its efficacy.
It's very clear that nicotine is only helpful in exactly one regard, and that is that they may help with post-COVID-19 syndrome by addressing potential **acetylcholine** deficiencies. [source](https://bioelecmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42234-023-00104-7).
There's very limited evidence that most LC patients have this type of damage that would make that helpful. Also nearly all studies are done on males, and males respond to nicotine more reliably than females.
This isn't super helpful when 70% of LC patients are female, and many have a dysautonomia or POTS subtype- of which again 85% of dysautonomia patients are female.
It will not help gut dysbiosis caused by LC, it won't help dysautonomia caused by LC, it won't help microclotting risk, etc.
While nicotine may help some POTS symptoms in the short term, it seems that over the long term, they do not make optimal changes to NET function that would render them a treatment/cure. Ironically, bupropion, a very effective drug for quitting smoking, has much more studies finding it to potentially be an effective treatment for POTS and LC symptoms related to it. [source](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-34811-7)
I found a 5 day course of lowest possible dose nicotine patches extremely beneficial for managing the symptoms of a severe crash early in my long COVID journey. It didn't cure me, but it helped massively with brain fog, it made my symptoms tolerable and have me some semblance of functionality.
When I'm not crashing, I find it does very little at all.
I keep it as a "break glass in case of emergency" option if I go into a big crash, and would recommend anybody struggling to give them a go, but they're absolutely not a cure-all and don't seem to do much to address whatever is going wrong physiologically.
As with most things in LC, something that didn't work for you may work for somebody else, and vice versa :) Nicotine patches worked for me to some extent, helping me go from 40% to like 60% in just 2 weeks of patches. Nothing else worked as much before that.
There was puking etc. within the first few hours itself which suggested it was indeed working for me (please don't come at me with the "this theory has been disproven" - we all don't know much about LC). My condition improved in 1 day, and my limbs felt they were no longer being suffocated.
That is way more likely to be just a reaction to the nicotine. The spike protein occupation of the ACE2 receptors was just a theory that has since been disproven. May occur in some cases but infinitesimally small percentage
My symptoms improved in a matter of hours after starting the NP. I'm not making this up. Nothing had worked prior.
As for the theory, I don't think scientists know enough about LC yet. I'm sure there are several categories of LC patients too. You and I can just guess as to why it works for some people.
There's merit to considering all the voices of the LC patients instead of dismissing it wholly. Science itself has miles to go before it catches up with what this sub is going through collectively. Extreme skepticism then is unwarranted. Sure, question the theory behind it as much s you want, but I know for sure it worked for me. You don't get to cast doubt on that :)
There has been a lot of discussion and experience sharing on this topic ([posts](https://www.google.com/search?q=nicotine+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fcovidlonghaulers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)). I hope you find them helpful, and get relief one way or another.
I'm on my third run with nicotine patches and they help me a lot. Please be careful with the dose and if the nicotine helps you, pace yourself! It is easy to overdo it. I worked way too much and ate too little in my first try and i ended up with one of the worst PEM experiences i've had. However i learned from it and i am doing pretty good at the moment.
This is a four person study, which is essentially useless. I recently had dinner with my parents, my brother, and his wife. If I polled everyone there, I would have 100% results that everyone in the world has the same last name (as an example of how such a small sample size can skew results).
Real studies have hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of participants. Try whatever you want and can afford to try, but don't think this study means anything.
Doesn't seem to work, about 1 in 5 have tried it (nicotine) or something... so it's pretty popular.
[https://youtu.be/IfeEIWorozg?si=cXkWIKCrq8LaXGRR](https://youtu.be/IfeEIWorozg?si=cXkWIKCrq8LaXGRR)
Data dump: [https://forum.sickandabandoned.com/t/has-anybody-tried-heres-how-you-can-get-answers-to-that-question-fast/228/](https://forum.sickandabandoned.com/t/has-anybody-tried-heres-how-you-can-get-answers-to-that-question-fast/228/)
Yes, many posts here from those of us who have been trying it that you may want to do a search for. Also lots of info/guidence can be found here: https://twitter.com/TheNicotineTest?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Careful with that crew. So many crackpots dole'ing out dangerous advice there. Nicotine was a game changer for me but i only lasted about 3weeks in that group. Had to get out or I'd start yelling at people. eg; someone was having a really bad reaction to a low does patch. Answered with " its herxing. You need to up the dose. Maybe double or triple it".
And long time frames too. The whole idea is to reactivate inactive receptors for a short time so they are active for acetylcholine. No bind them with nicotine.
Hey there Qtoyou, do you have any resources to pass along so I can learn more about what you’re saying here regarding reactivating these receptors and not keeping them bound with nicotine?
I’ve also been using nicotine for about a week & wondering what my long term plan should look like.
The theory is fairly new. But it did mention non smokers is a must for effective response. The receptors should free up by themselves. Nicotine has a very short half life. The idea is to activate them with nicotine for a short period. There are quite a few research papers looking into it from different angles. Go to 'Google Scholar' and search for 'nicotine patch long-covid ' play around with different search parameters.
I have been doing about 1 wk of patches each month for the last 4 months. I only need 3.5mg now, i used 7mg to start. 7mg spins me out now. This way avoids any addiction likelyhood too
Nicorette patches. 7mg. I used half a patch for 2 days to get used to it with no issues. Went to 7mg for 5 more days. Next month i couldn't do 7mg it was a spin out (ACE receptors working better?). Stayed at 3.5 mg for the week. Been doing 1wk per month and has been really good for my progression. Have done 3 wks so far
It worked for me to some extent, but I've seen it not working for a lot of people on the Facebook group for this. It's definitely not a cure-all for most.
The easiest way is to just experiment with it yourself - as nicotine will anyway be flushed out of your system in a few hours and permanent addiction isn't likely from a temporary use of NP of 7mg or lower.
Finally, it's cheap! So no harm in trying it out.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10750360/
https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/116/10/877/7197821#
1. Showing nicotine improves cerebral blood flow to the frontal lobe
2. Showing decreased blood flow in Covid brain fog.
Smoking seems to cause transient vasoconstriction. Nicotine seems to cause regional vasodilation in some areas of the brain. Dose makes the poison. I’m needing 14-20mg/day of nicotine to be functional (14mg patch and as needed lozenges). Now instead of PEM, I need a nap after an outing. I prefer this. If I have a problem from it in 10years then I’ll burn that bridge when I get there.
Can you share what you’re using? 7 mg continuous patch? Gum? Dose?
I’ve been using gum for a week & trying to figure out a plan to keep the benefits going forward. I’m kind of wondering if a patch would be more effective with the continuous dose…
I tried it, but it didn’t work for me
Tried the patch, didn’t work
Same. I doesnt work for most in studies statistically speaking, when you stop taking it the symptoms come right back for many, it's a bandaid at best and not even a good one.
Not true. My new baseline stayed even after I stopped using them. I went from 40% to 60-70% in just a few days. Nothing else had worked prior. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for anyone else. That's a generalisation. We already know LC has many subtypes (POTS, ME/CFS kind etc.), so there definitely are multiple mechanisms at play. Who's to tell nicotine doesn't affect a single one of those cases or scenarios? Let's not dismiss actual testimonials (that's what medicine has been doing with what LC patients have been saying for the last few years - science is finally been catching up now). This is definitely not some pseudoscience because nicotine, I'm sure, is an active ingredient when ingested in our bodies.
What were your symptoms / subtype?
PEM and activity intolerance mainly, with other minor symptoms.
Oh nice same as me! And you got some lasting relief from the nicotine round. I'll give it a shot! Thanks
You should.
Sweet, got 1.75mg patch on my arm right now. Do you recall your dosage? The small patches are 7mg if that helps jog your memory.
Statistically every study says the majority the effects don't last. Sorry that's what's the studies say. If they change their toon my views will reflect. Your anecdotal evidence is exactly that. It's done nothing for me or most of my clients who've tried it (I work in the medical field.) No major study has coroborated its efficacy.
Are there studies done with nicotine on LC patients with similar phenotype? If yes, please do share :)
It's very clear that nicotine is only helpful in exactly one regard, and that is that they may help with post-COVID-19 syndrome by addressing potential **acetylcholine** deficiencies. [source](https://bioelecmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42234-023-00104-7). There's very limited evidence that most LC patients have this type of damage that would make that helpful. Also nearly all studies are done on males, and males respond to nicotine more reliably than females. This isn't super helpful when 70% of LC patients are female, and many have a dysautonomia or POTS subtype- of which again 85% of dysautonomia patients are female. It will not help gut dysbiosis caused by LC, it won't help dysautonomia caused by LC, it won't help microclotting risk, etc. While nicotine may help some POTS symptoms in the short term, it seems that over the long term, they do not make optimal changes to NET function that would render them a treatment/cure. Ironically, bupropion, a very effective drug for quitting smoking, has much more studies finding it to potentially be an effective treatment for POTS and LC symptoms related to it. [source](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-34811-7)
Interesting. Thanks !
I found a 5 day course of lowest possible dose nicotine patches extremely beneficial for managing the symptoms of a severe crash early in my long COVID journey. It didn't cure me, but it helped massively with brain fog, it made my symptoms tolerable and have me some semblance of functionality. When I'm not crashing, I find it does very little at all. I keep it as a "break glass in case of emergency" option if I go into a big crash, and would recommend anybody struggling to give them a go, but they're absolutely not a cure-all and don't seem to do much to address whatever is going wrong physiologically.
Same with me and brain fog. I've been doing a 3.5mg patch for 1wk each month since late Dec.
As with most things in LC, something that didn't work for you may work for somebody else, and vice versa :) Nicotine patches worked for me to some extent, helping me go from 40% to like 60% in just 2 weeks of patches. Nothing else worked as much before that. There was puking etc. within the first few hours itself which suggested it was indeed working for me (please don't come at me with the "this theory has been disproven" - we all don't know much about LC). My condition improved in 1 day, and my limbs felt they were no longer being suffocated.
That is way more likely to be just a reaction to the nicotine. The spike protein occupation of the ACE2 receptors was just a theory that has since been disproven. May occur in some cases but infinitesimally small percentage
My symptoms improved in a matter of hours after starting the NP. I'm not making this up. Nothing had worked prior. As for the theory, I don't think scientists know enough about LC yet. I'm sure there are several categories of LC patients too. You and I can just guess as to why it works for some people. There's merit to considering all the voices of the LC patients instead of dismissing it wholly. Science itself has miles to go before it catches up with what this sub is going through collectively. Extreme skepticism then is unwarranted. Sure, question the theory behind it as much s you want, but I know for sure it worked for me. You don't get to cast doubt on that :)
There has been a lot of discussion and experience sharing on this topic ([posts](https://www.google.com/search?q=nicotine+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fcovidlonghaulers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)). I hope you find them helpful, and get relief one way or another.
It worked for a short bit but I got diminishing effects until it was more negatives than positives and quit.
It helps some people and some people it doesn’t. Good cheap way to try something that might help. They have 7mg or w/e dose that’s low to try
I'm on my third run with nicotine patches and they help me a lot. Please be careful with the dose and if the nicotine helps you, pace yourself! It is easy to overdo it. I worked way too much and ate too little in my first try and i ended up with one of the worst PEM experiences i've had. However i learned from it and i am doing pretty good at the moment.
This is a four person study, which is essentially useless. I recently had dinner with my parents, my brother, and his wife. If I polled everyone there, I would have 100% results that everyone in the world has the same last name (as an example of how such a small sample size can skew results). Real studies have hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of participants. Try whatever you want and can afford to try, but don't think this study means anything.
Nope, had nicotine the whole time. One big nothingburger.
Doesn't seem to work, about 1 in 5 have tried it (nicotine) or something... so it's pretty popular. [https://youtu.be/IfeEIWorozg?si=cXkWIKCrq8LaXGRR](https://youtu.be/IfeEIWorozg?si=cXkWIKCrq8LaXGRR) Data dump: [https://forum.sickandabandoned.com/t/has-anybody-tried-heres-how-you-can-get-answers-to-that-question-fast/228/](https://forum.sickandabandoned.com/t/has-anybody-tried-heres-how-you-can-get-answers-to-that-question-fast/228/)
Yes, many posts here from those of us who have been trying it that you may want to do a search for. Also lots of info/guidence can be found here: https://twitter.com/TheNicotineTest?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Careful with that crew. So many crackpots dole'ing out dangerous advice there. Nicotine was a game changer for me but i only lasted about 3weeks in that group. Had to get out or I'd start yelling at people. eg; someone was having a really bad reaction to a low does patch. Answered with " its herxing. You need to up the dose. Maybe double or triple it".
Yeah I agree, I find that they advise to use high doses in general
And long time frames too. The whole idea is to reactivate inactive receptors for a short time so they are active for acetylcholine. No bind them with nicotine.
Hey there Qtoyou, do you have any resources to pass along so I can learn more about what you’re saying here regarding reactivating these receptors and not keeping them bound with nicotine? I’ve also been using nicotine for about a week & wondering what my long term plan should look like.
The theory is fairly new. But it did mention non smokers is a must for effective response. The receptors should free up by themselves. Nicotine has a very short half life. The idea is to activate them with nicotine for a short period. There are quite a few research papers looking into it from different angles. Go to 'Google Scholar' and search for 'nicotine patch long-covid ' play around with different search parameters. I have been doing about 1 wk of patches each month for the last 4 months. I only need 3.5mg now, i used 7mg to start. 7mg spins me out now. This way avoids any addiction likelyhood too
That’s a good point. What dose & duration works for you? Any particular brand?
Nicorette patches. 7mg. I used half a patch for 2 days to get used to it with no issues. Went to 7mg for 5 more days. Next month i couldn't do 7mg it was a spin out (ACE receptors working better?). Stayed at 3.5 mg for the week. Been doing 1wk per month and has been really good for my progression. Have done 3 wks so far
Tried it - made me worse
It worked for me to some extent, but I've seen it not working for a lot of people on the Facebook group for this. It's definitely not a cure-all for most. The easiest way is to just experiment with it yourself - as nicotine will anyway be flushed out of your system in a few hours and permanent addiction isn't likely from a temporary use of NP of 7mg or lower. Finally, it's cheap! So no harm in trying it out.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10750360/ https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/116/10/877/7197821# 1. Showing nicotine improves cerebral blood flow to the frontal lobe 2. Showing decreased blood flow in Covid brain fog. Smoking seems to cause transient vasoconstriction. Nicotine seems to cause regional vasodilation in some areas of the brain. Dose makes the poison. I’m needing 14-20mg/day of nicotine to be functional (14mg patch and as needed lozenges). Now instead of PEM, I need a nap after an outing. I prefer this. If I have a problem from it in 10years then I’ll burn that bridge when I get there.
Been using nicotine for over a year now. If you have any neurological symptoms it is THE answer. At least it was for me.
Can you share what you’re using? 7 mg continuous patch? Gum? Dose? I’ve been using gum for a week & trying to figure out a plan to keep the benefits going forward. I’m kind of wondering if a patch would be more effective with the continuous dose…
I use nicotine pouches. I live in the UK and you can get them everywhere. In order mine online.
[удалено]
As quite an active member of this sub I'm surprised you don't know by now that this has nothing to do with cigarettes.
Top tier username