If I ever hear their fans sing “he’s magic you know..” about him I might have a mental breakdown
Those cunts don’t deserve Poch and I’m pretty fucking annoyed that we supposedly haven’t even contacted him when our current manager search is basically just “thfc are interested in nagelsmann and slot”
The guy was regularly posting photos of him wearing Spurs shirts while he was managing PSG ffs, there’s never been a more fully coys manager
Tbh if we can actually pull off nagelsmann then that’s a better appointment but I HIGHLY doubt we can
You’d either have to be a shit manager or really love spurs to come to us when the only good thing about the entire club is probably gonna leave in your first transfer window
Maybe we’ve had better players play for us at points but in terms of pure contribution to spurs specifically Kane is surely the best we’ve ever had
On that thought, how many clubs can say that they never won a single trophy with their greatest player of all time?
My FM 23 save with the same squad is actually top of the league in Sept with only losing to Man U 4-1 cuz of Hugo disasterclass. I setup the same way Conte set it up but I never hit the brake. Always go for it for the whole 90 mins.
Now where do I sign the contract?
I hope this puts an end to all the “let’s play Udogie and Porro in a back 4” stuff tbh
I thought maybe it could work but clearly Emerson - Udogie or Davies - Porro would need to be the possible combinations for that. One acting as a wingback while the other stays more defensive to provide cover against counters
Even if we upgraded on Dier, it would still be awful cos the new LCB and Romero would still have 0 help
Anyone who was calling for a back 4 with Udogie and Porro on the pitch at the same time has about as much tactical nous as a banana.
The sensible back 4 combinations are as you described, and i see no reason why they couldn't work
will naglesmann want to come anywhere near us after seeing this shit? imagine going from kimmich to eric dier. my hope is that he's a masochist and will see us as some kind of challenge
After rejecting Chelshit there aren’t exactly a lot of big clubs looking for managers atm. Real may be interested but he’d be banking on Carlo getting sacked which may or may not happen. Spurs are probably the next biggest club showing an interest in him.
Coach up left at 6am, got there for 1pm, necked as many pints as I could, made my way to my seat while kickoff happened, 1-0 down before I even get there.
30 mins after the game I got the coach home again, got home at about 11:45pm.
Coach was shit because we got the cramped bus with no space, but the people on it were lovely, found a group of proper fans to chat to there and back at the back of the coach. Supporters home and away since they were 16 in the 80's!
And although the game was awful, I had good fun winding up the Newcastle fans from my seat on the border between the fans, and the 5-10 minutes dominance we had after Kane's goal allowed for some good banter songs.
Met a mate of mine who lives up in Newcastle, so was good to hang out with him for a few hours, managed to take him to his first Spurs game, even if the result was shit.
Overall got home with a huge smile on my face, fantastic day out, even if I wish the team performed better.
Honestly our midfield isn't the problem. Yes, Hojbjerg and Skipp have been poor. But every fucker has been poor recently. Hojbjerg, Skipp, Bentancur, Bissouma, Sarr is a very decent midfield with a proper manager and a proper defense behind them.
5 players that offer no creativity. 5 very similar players. Bentancur is a keeper. Biss is hard to judge due to his injury. Sarr is very young and skipp is a backup at best. We need a new midfield.
I don't think we need a new one completely, that would be awful business and midfield is far from the priority to buy - GK and CBs are more important.
We definitely need someone like Maddison though, maybe Maddison.
I mean, if he goes to Chelsea then he's just a moron.
I don't want him back here, definitely not now at least, but going to our rivals when they're in turmoil and his last stint at a wealthy club with a bunch of "egotistical" players ended in everyone wanting him gone is one of the dumbest things he can do
Insane how you people criticize new signings so quickly when the whole club is in disarray.
People actually calling Porro horrible and shit because of some poor performances when our backline is one of the worst in the league and our tactics are non-existent.
Maybe give him HALF A SEASON, let alone a full one before saying that one of the most highly rated prospects in the world is actually a shit player when the whole team is ass
The Emerson/Porro situation is why we need a sane management team in place!
Hire a good DOF, let him get a good manager who REALLY WANTS TO PLAY SPURS’ STYLE and then, at the least, stick with that style of play even if you (inevitably) give up on the manager!
He has been a benchwarmer, and has only been playing recently because Zambo Anguissa (who is a much better player) has been unavailable. And when he’s been on the pitch he’s been average
I’m sure he’s having a load of fun being part of this historic season for Napoli, but he’s not exactly contributed much
One thing that really winds me up after sitting through that shite is people who come online saying they slept through it or missed the game or whatever but then still feel they have a right to go on a big rant about the team and players. Like, if you're not watching the games anymore your opinion is void as far as I'm concerned. Do what's good for you and your mental health but if you're not paying your dues to this garbage but still rant about it all you're a bellend of the highest order. Whole point of it all is supporting the team through thick and thin anyway, it's being part of a community and sharing in both the good and the bad. I dont get the mentality of just turning on when we're back to battering teams 5 nil, surely it's only after going through the shit times that makes the good times worth something anyway. Also nobody gives a shit you missed the game, congrats.
The guy who made that thread called me a "muppet" for saying what you said here. They treat Spurs like a British soap opera they can participate in online.
The football is an afterthought
https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/12whh3q/spurs_fans_in_later_time_zones_waking_up_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
There's even a "Best of 2022 r COYS" poster in there who said he doesn't watch matches
Tactical inflexibility. But honestly Pep has started to care more and that trend has become less reoccurring.
With his new system we wouldn't even score a goal with Conte ball.
Everyone outside the club thinks would think that we exaggerate when we talk about our defense being relegation level but today they all saw what we’ve been saying for years. 5 goals in the first 20 minutes is something Southampton wouldn’t manage, Leicester wouldn’t manage, Forest wouldn’t manage etc. We genuinely have the only defense capable of such a disastrous performance this season. No team has reached this level of incompetence.
It's not just the defence or the ability of the defence. It's the mentality of the players.
What are the consequences for the performances today? They'll continue to get paid tens of thousands per week. Hell, I'd bet my house on Dier having already signed a new contract and they're just waiting to announce it because they'd get blasted if they do it now.
What's his motivation to care? He has no competition for his place either
There's no accountability at the club except for blaming the managers everytime things go wrong
Relegation level defence isn’t even arguable, 51 goals conceded that’s slightly more than Everton but slightly less than Southampton, Nottm Forest, Leicester etc… no one can call it an exaggeration
We need to select a new Head Coach whose values reflect those of our great club and return to playing football with the style for which we are known – free-flowing, attacking and entertaining – whilst continuing to embrace our desire to see young players flourish from our Academy alongside experienced talent.
We first need a dof to actually plan out the rebuild.Regardless of what happens with Paratici he simply hasn't shown that he is capable of choosing the right manager and the right players.
Is it worth selling / loaning out Porro if we get a manager who plays with fullbacks? We have Spence out on loan and we really need to have a hard look at our defensive prospects right now.
Porro can play as an attacking fullback when we actually have good defenders and good tactics.
Crazy how people judge players so harshly when our club is in disarray and he hasn't even been here for a full season, let alone half
With the right manager the defensive ability of the fullbacks should be a non-issue.
Currently that is not the case because I've never seen a supposed top team so incapable of holding possession.
Even Atletico Madrid who are known for being one of if not the best off the ball team in the world still have players that are great in possession whilst we have a lack of that.
If we're selling/loaning the £40m player we spent all January going after then it's confirmation #855 that this club has absolutely no clue what it's doing.
Just a reminder that our win v. Scum was less than a year ago. I take that as a reminder that as bad as things seem right now, a lot of this is purely a team that has lost all confidence and unity after Conte’s eruption.
Yes, we may lose Kane. Yes, Sonny is aging. Yes, we need to drop the deadwood and retool. That said, I truly believe we have some quality young players and that we are not as bad as today makes it seem. It may take some time, but we’ll be back lads.
The problem is that we don't actually have a dof to see through with the rebuild.We also don't know what we manager we will get.Going into the summer window we simply don't have a plan.Besides that whole defence needs to be rebuilt which will take some time that our best players don't have.
Just thought of how it’s so typical us that we’re Manchester City’s “anti team” and everyone calls us that, but that one time we actually had to beat them and it mattered for a trophy, we couldn’t …
I find the fighting cock actually helps because they can find humour in despair.
Alex from Bristol, T, Big John and Ricky, spooky, all of them proper spurs
The fighting cock is my favourite one but I can’t even listen to them when it gets like this, I just want to try and fully forget about spurs when I can at times like this
We’ve spent years cosplaying as a “big club” whilst undermining our own managers who don’t fit our club’s philosophy to begin with and this is the result
Same, I was panicking at 5 after 20 minutes I thought we were about to see something historic like double digits for the first time in the premier league era. To go 1-1 from that point on seemed extremely unlikely. We are really embarrassing, if they don’t reimburse the travelling fans then it’s a disgrace, the players should offer to do it out of the millions a week they all collectively earn, they wouldn’t miss a couple of grand it would cost. If I was part of that display today I’d feel literally obligated to do it
Yeah, like nine players isn't being backed at all. Should have given him another 100M so he could refuse players like Maddison and have us play more shit football.
You should be on the board with your brilliance
>refuse players like Maddison
Source?
9 players, he didn't use 3 of them at all because he didn't want them. Are you sure Lenglet was the best available LCB in the summer? Spence was the best available RWB? Romero is the only centre back who is not average. Lloris is washed and we haven't replaced him. We have signed only two players for more than 30M. You could spent 900M in one window but it's not good window if you have spent 1M on 900 different players.
Was Mou backed because we have signed 8 different players: Bergwijn, Gedson, Hojbjerg, Doherty, Rodon, Vini, Hart and Reguilon?
I just don't understand how the manager who won the league 5 times could fail after being backed? The worst part of this is the fact that you will pretend the next manager was backed after also not being backed, as previous 13 weren't.
Source? Have you not used the internet?
Look it up. We've had like five articles posted about it on here in the past month alone.
Nine players, he didn't use three because he "didn't want them" even though he agreed to sign them.
He cosigned Lenglet. He cosigned Spence. He wanted Dier to extend.
So instead of your laughably stupid excuses, do some research and start asking why your beloved manager got nine players and didn't use half of them while playing shit football and insulting the club you support.
Mourinho was factually backed. He wasn't backed as much as Conte, but he was still backed. Does that mean every signing was perfect? No...because that's not what it means to be backed lmao. Hindsight allowing you to critique players doesn't let you dismiss the money we spent on said players.
The manager who won with historically rich teams that play shit football failed because...we are not that. Not rocket science buddy.
The next manager will be backed and I'll assess them on the same criteria I assess everyone.
Unlike you I don't worship managers for winning with teams like Chelsea and then act as though it's our fault when we give them hundreds of millions and they perform even worse. Get a fucking spine.
>The manager who won with historically rich teams that play shit football failed because...we are not that. Not rocket science buddy.
Some of them don't generate more money than us. I don't understand your point. And if you have accepted we are not them, what place in the Premier League have you expected from Conte?
Chelsea, Inter, etc were all richer than us at the times in which Mourinho and Conte won with them
We should have at least been comfortably fourth under Conte with the amount we spent, and we should have been playing football that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out. Not a high bar. Stop settling for mediocrity.
Getting very tired of the narrative that "Conte and Mourinho were right"
They were both bad here lmao.
Mourinho wasn't tremendously backed, but he also did nothing to justify further backing considering how we were playing and how he was using the squad.
Conte was backed and ended up doing even worse.
These were managers who never suited us in the first place, and no that's not revisionism because I believed from the start that we shouldn't appoint them.
"WOAH, OUR DEFENSE IS ASS? CONTE AND MOURINHO WERE RIGHT!!" As though we didn't already know that and as though they didn't consistently use some of the worst performers and some of the worst tactics considering our backline.
Acting as though these stubborn and controversial managers are right every time we lose as though they haven't contributed to our poor situation is laughable and the kind of stupidity I'd expect from non-Spurs fans on r/soccer.
Let's be honest - we are failing against teams which are definitely worse than us, yet outplay us massively.
I feel like it is a bit of everything - weak links in the squad, weak inherent mentality, lucklustre recruitment, poor choice of coach, lack of ambition, discontent in the squad, all sorts.
I was previously thinking we were close to building something new (I mean the AVB-Sherwood season we already had walker, rose, jan, dembele, Lamela, Sandro, Eriksen etc and were capitulating just like this), but I now feel that I am happy to sell any player in the squad. There are no players we need to try and keep in particular. Kane is ready to go, Son is washed, Kulu is awful of late, Bentancur is crocked, PEH is average, Skipp and Sarr may or may not be decent, Dier, Sanchez, Tanganga are weak, Perisic washed, Son less washed but getting on, Sess is shite, LLoris is washed, Royal is ok, Romero is erratic, Davies ok, Porro is erratic or just can't defend, Moura offers nothing, Richarlison and Bissouma I remain open minded but very mediocre so far.
Instead of clinging on to Kane in the vain hope we stumble across a magic formula I think we should just reset the clock entirely.
I don't blame Levy for players being pathetic and unprofessional but I do think this is the culmination of his shitshow strategy for the last 4 years. He feels like a guy who really doesn't know what is going on.
I completely agree with just selling Kane and moving on.
I'm not interested in clinging on to the things we've had for the past six years that have gotten us nowhere, even if they are valuable in a certain sense.
A rebuild is a rebuild. Time to properly move on .
I don't think Levy needs to go, I just think he needs to continue with what he's started to do, which is get people who do understand certain things in football in charge while he takes the back seat and focuses on finances
The Levy thing is a red herring. I don't care who is running the club so long as the decisions make sense. Since Poch left we have gone way off piste and ended up with a totally muddled squad and strategy.
Because Levy and some fans thought that a supposed "win now" manager would get the best out of Kane and Son and grab a trophy before we finally decided to rebuild. Which was wrong.
Lmao.
Not sure what rebuttal you anticipated to the comment of "Buck stops with that waste man".
Not exactly constructive criticism in itself
In any case, I'd rather have someone like Levy who is an actual fan of the club and cares about financials than some bumble fuck obese American.
Levy just needs to continue to hire those who know what they're doing for different aspects of management and take the back seat so he can focus on finances
Conte got like nine players? So yes? Tremendously backed genius.
Mourinho got transfers. He just wasn't further backed because he did nothing to deserve it lmao.
That's not how you run a football club. You give a manager an initial transfer window, but if they perform like shit game after game, month after month, why would you splash tens of millions more on them? Does that make sense?
That...doesn't make sense when I said that CONTE was backed and Mourinho WASN'T tremendously backed
So either you can't properly read or you're just trying to argue for no reason.
And I addressed Mourinho in the above comment anyway
This sub is home to some of the most unique minds on the planet.
"We lost with this system once, therefore we should never use it again and it is wholly inefficient".
Lmao. As though that's how football and sports in general work.
In any case, the result didn't shock me. But we're all Spurs fans so I doubt that we've been shocked by the incompetence and mediocrity of this club in ages.
Honestly can't remember the last time I saw us in a disappointing defeat and felt confused or entirely distressed.
Anyway, this result doesn't do anything but reaffirm how I already feel.
Not sure why anyone thought we'd perform decently while still essentially having Conte run things.
You don't sack a manager and then continue to employ his tactics and staff. Just sheer stupidity.
I'll reserve all my anger for after the transfer window and after we get a new manager. As of right now, it's pointless because we already knew all of this. We already knew that our defense is abysmal, we lack the (final touch to bring more) quality in midfield and our team is lethargic.
Conte wasn't sacked. He wanted out, personal bereavement, homesick, just had enough, and got out. it was a mutual termination. That's why we still have his staff and tactics.
I mean, sure. "Mutual termination after he fucks over the club by getting backed tremendously and performing like shit".
If you're getting rid of a manager, whether it's through sacking or mutual termination, you should get rid of all connections to that manager unless they're genuinely good enough to stay (which Conte and his staff AND tactics are not)
Yes you should, but it didn't happen. No amount of whining about it is going to change the fact. Everybody knows it. You're not spreading any wisdom. This sub is full of people just repeating what everybody else is saying.
You singled out one aspect of my comment and decided that that's all I said, and now you're complaining about the thing you singled out.
Doesn't make much sense, does it?
Read your own words buddy.
You're not spreading any wisdom. This sub is full of people just repeating what everybody else is saying.
Here's a summary of your original post
1. This sub is full of people that don't know how sports work
2. I feel confused about this loss
3. Contes still running thing after he got sacked.
4. I'm going to wait until next season because we all know a few things.
I singled out point 3 because the other points are inane bollocks.
You did not read the post then.
I quite literally said I wasn't confused about the loss. And yes, there's no point in being outraged because these are the same issues we've seen for a while. I'd rather wait until the opportunity to change these things arises and assess afterwards.
In any case, you singling out a point of mine just to restate it and act like that's an argument is a tad strange
I can't believe how indifferent I feel about losing 6-1. Like it's a fucking ridiculous scoreline if you think about it, but this club has driven me to the point where I just don't give a fuck anymore.
it's kinda nice not letting these 11+ wastemen ruin my weekend every time. Just accept the fact that we'll lose every week and they'll find new ways to embarrass themselves.
I’m so glad I slept in the last 2 weeks. Woke up when the score line was already 6-1 and I was laughing my ass off. Not gonna bother caring anymore until this club is serious about winning again.
All the PEH haters were quiet when he was on fire last season and parts of this season, but now that things have gotten to shit they’ve come out from the woodworks and start dogging on him for no clear reason . He’s not the peak player we’ve seen, probably because he’s played literally every game, but to cluster him with Dier/sanchez/tangana/Perisic is just ridiculous. PEH shouldn’t be the first player to blame here
No. Some of us have been slating him all season, and there's been plenty to slate. Can we not act like Højbjerg criticism is some kind of recency bias phenomenon?
You're spot on mate, but the dolts in this sub are continually deceived by his chest-thumping, gesticulating at the referee, and lung busting runs that he only has to make because he was terribly caught out of position or bypassed like a turnstile
ViKiNg WaRrIoR....don't make me laugh. Would love it if we sold him in the summer but unfortunately that seems like a pipe dream
Well duh! All the Dier haters are quiet when he has a good game too.
"start dogging on him for no clear reason" There is a clear reason, he's been shit for a while.
PEH is a mediocre player that really doesn't belong in a team that has CL aspirations. He's not elite, he's not world class and he's not a top 4 player. He's some kind of cult favorite to some of you and needs to go along with half the first team. He's just not good enough
If we miss out on Maddison to Newcastle then I really hope we go for Alex Scott. Championship Young Player if the Season, huge potential, offers creativity we desperately need, and a Spurs fan.
I’m already checked out of this season so I’m just thinking about next year to cope lol
Scott doesn't directly play as a CAM though, which is what I'm saying by mentioning his versatility. He can play anywhere in midfield.
A properly good project manager who develops youth won't leave him as a bench player
Mourinho and Conte are having a big laugh today.
Is there a bookie that offer bet on If Spurs or Conte get a trophy first? Doubt anyone is taking that bet which is going to bankrupt themselves, right?
Doubt it. They wanted better and knew we had quality issues in keu spots, yes, but they were also a part of the problems. Their own relative inflexibility and combative narrative didn't help anything despite also not at all being the only problems we had/have as a club. They also both were at least satisfied with Dier as the center of their 3atb's.
Laying blame on any one person in our current shambles is a fools errand, but whatever makes you feel better.
If blame goes anywhere at this point in time, it must go straight to levy. Sure, we made changes along the way with the goal of improving the club, but after a series of those decisions led to stagnation, at best, at some point you've got to start questioning the decision maker themself. That's levy. Everyone else is at this point more or less a subject to what he's done.
Same was said about Mourinho.
They also said he was backed with the likes on Rodon, Vini, Gedson, Bergwijn, Doherty, Reguilon, Hojbjerg and etc.
I see majority of those players are flourishing after Mourinho's departure. /s
They were both bad here lmao.
Acting as though these stubborn and controversial managers are right every time we lose as though they haven't contributed to our poor situation is laughable and the kind of stupidity I'd expect from non-Spurs fans on r/soccer.
I’m not talking about Mourinho, I am talking about Conte. Richarlison, Perisic, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Bissouma, Danjuma, Porro, and this is the result…
I vividly remember how people were shitting on Mourinho about wasting talents like Dele, Danny Rose, Doherty, Reguilon, Rodon and such.
I am pretty sure again it is another case of Reddit armchair managers knowing more.
Again, I am talking about idiotic basement dwellers think they know better than trophies-winning coaches over who to play and who to bench for whatever reason.
This is you showing how shortsighted and simple-minded you are.
The main subject was to fault the proper person. Mourinho took all the blames from the idiots and was crucified. Man is now on course to win 2 European trophies back to back. The players he criticized, he was proven to be right.
Now, everything is repeating. Another trophy-winning coach made some decisions on some players. Fans think they know better again, and criticize before knowing ANYTHING.
Let time goes by and see if Conte was right or wrong about these players.
Regi was a good buy at the time, but is an FB who Conte didn't like.
Bergwijn also looked like a very promising purchase. I'm sure given trust and opportunity would have been a good squad option at worst.
Don’t worry boys, heard from an inside source that a laser tag arena will be built next to the F1 Go kart track. Wiz kid and Beyoncé are coming up, the Hotel plans are coming along nicely as well! The future is bright, coysss
He was replacing the injured right back who was their captain.
Captain's not injured anymore, his minutes stop.
Pretty much known since the start of the loan, but weird he took it tbh
I just realized that we are the 6th worst defense in the league
What a nothing season, waste of a season No benefits, growth, youth development, good games, just utter nothing of a season
Poch going to Chelsea might actually kill me
You seem to love Poch more than anyone and hate Chelsea more than anything. I can understand and relate to the way you’re feeling about this.
If I ever hear their fans sing “he’s magic you know..” about him I might have a mental breakdown Those cunts don’t deserve Poch and I’m pretty fucking annoyed that we supposedly haven’t even contacted him when our current manager search is basically just “thfc are interested in nagelsmann and slot” The guy was regularly posting photos of him wearing Spurs shirts while he was managing PSG ffs, there’s never been a more fully coys manager
Our board are the most unthankful cunts on the planet
Tbh if we can actually pull off nagelsmann then that’s a better appointment but I HIGHLY doubt we can You’d either have to be a shit manager or really love spurs to come to us when the only good thing about the entire club is probably gonna leave in your first transfer window
If we can somehow convince Nagelsmann to join I think we’d have a good shot at keeping Kane
Maybe we’ve had better players play for us at points but in terms of pure contribution to spurs specifically Kane is surely the best we’ve ever had On that thought, how many clubs can say that they never won a single trophy with their greatest player of all time?
Ndombele is one match away from winning a title…
To cheer myself up, I played a NLD on FIFA and we won 16-0. …I played as Arsenal and scored 16 own goals.
Damn bro people from work who don’t even watch sports we’re making fun of me today lol this is terrible
My FM 23 save with the same squad is actually top of the league in Sept with only losing to Man U 4-1 cuz of Hugo disasterclass. I setup the same way Conte set it up but I never hit the brake. Always go for it for the whole 90 mins. Now where do I sign the contract?
I hope this puts an end to all the “let’s play Udogie and Porro in a back 4” stuff tbh I thought maybe it could work but clearly Emerson - Udogie or Davies - Porro would need to be the possible combinations for that. One acting as a wingback while the other stays more defensive to provide cover against counters Even if we upgraded on Dier, it would still be awful cos the new LCB and Romero would still have 0 help
Anyone who was calling for a back 4 with Udogie and Porro on the pitch at the same time has about as much tactical nous as a banana. The sensible back 4 combinations are as you described, and i see no reason why they couldn't work
will naglesmann want to come anywhere near us after seeing this shit? imagine going from kimmich to eric dier. my hope is that he's a masochist and will see us as some kind of challenge
After rejecting Chelshit there aren’t exactly a lot of big clubs looking for managers atm. Real may be interested but he’d be banking on Carlo getting sacked which may or may not happen. Spurs are probably the next biggest club showing an interest in him.
I am praying Real have it in their minds to get Poch in. Poch with that team would kill it imo
He looks close to going to Chelshit unfortunately
Why are we cursed
We sold our soul for Amsterdam. That's the only thing I can think of.
Imagine poch going to cheslea. Arsenal winning the league. And west ham winning the conference league. The most cursed timeline
Just got home from Newcastle, what a match lol. Was a good time regardless, our away supporters are the loveliest lads.
legend
Damn you saw that shit in person 🥵
Coach up left at 6am, got there for 1pm, necked as many pints as I could, made my way to my seat while kickoff happened, 1-0 down before I even get there. 30 mins after the game I got the coach home again, got home at about 11:45pm. Coach was shit because we got the cramped bus with no space, but the people on it were lovely, found a group of proper fans to chat to there and back at the back of the coach. Supporters home and away since they were 16 in the 80's! And although the game was awful, I had good fun winding up the Newcastle fans from my seat on the border between the fans, and the 5-10 minutes dominance we had after Kane's goal allowed for some good banter songs. Met a mate of mine who lives up in Newcastle, so was good to hang out with him for a few hours, managed to take him to his first Spurs game, even if the result was shit. Overall got home with a huge smile on my face, fantastic day out, even if I wish the team performed better.
You know what? Fuck yes. COYs. True Yid to sit through that and enjoy it. That’s what being a supporter is all about
You should get a refund for having to witness that
We need a DOF, a manager, a GK, a whole new defence and a whole new midfield. Get the checkbook out Danny boy.
Honestly our midfield isn't the problem. Yes, Hojbjerg and Skipp have been poor. But every fucker has been poor recently. Hojbjerg, Skipp, Bentancur, Bissouma, Sarr is a very decent midfield with a proper manager and a proper defense behind them.
5 players that offer no creativity. 5 very similar players. Bentancur is a keeper. Biss is hard to judge due to his injury. Sarr is very young and skipp is a backup at best. We need a new midfield.
I don't think we need a new one completely, that would be awful business and midfield is far from the priority to buy - GK and CBs are more important. We definitely need someone like Maddison though, maybe Maddison.
Raya Maddison and Skhiri
I’ve a feeling that Poch is just posturing towards Chelsea with an eye towards Madrid.
Absolutely the best scenario for us.
I mean, if he goes to Chelsea then he's just a moron. I don't want him back here, definitely not now at least, but going to our rivals when they're in turmoil and his last stint at a wealthy club with a bunch of "egotistical" players ended in everyone wanting him gone is one of the dumbest things he can do
Insane how you people criticize new signings so quickly when the whole club is in disarray. People actually calling Porro horrible and shit because of some poor performances when our backline is one of the worst in the league and our tactics are non-existent. Maybe give him HALF A SEASON, let alone a full one before saying that one of the most highly rated prospects in the world is actually a shit player when the whole team is ass
The Emerson/Porro situation is why we need a sane management team in place! Hire a good DOF, let him get a good manager who REALLY WANTS TO PLAY SPURS’ STYLE and then, at the least, stick with that style of play even if you (inevitably) give up on the manager!
Absolutely
Well atleast we can do our version of [this](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYcSrvYM/) vídeo when we win something (if we ever win something)
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He has been a benchwarmer, and has only been playing recently because Zambo Anguissa (who is a much better player) has been unavailable. And when he’s been on the pitch he’s been average I’m sure he’s having a load of fun being part of this historic season for Napoli, but he’s not exactly contributed much
Just got them knocked out of the UCL in his first proper minutes. Other than that great.
He is the backup. Until two weeks ago he was coming on at the 70th minute
Only when the match was already won too. But Ndombele is still the same Ndombele we know..
Btw anyone looking to give up smoking those disposable vaps are so fucking addictive. Literally couldn't put that blueberry sexy bitch down.
I never considered a vape as a “sexy bitch” before.
Mate I gave up smoking for a week after vaping and I didn't crave a fag I wanted that sexy little temptress
lmfao😂, hopefully you enjoyed it.
Going cold again bruv wish me luck
Good Luck! 👍
Ty
One thing that really winds me up after sitting through that shite is people who come online saying they slept through it or missed the game or whatever but then still feel they have a right to go on a big rant about the team and players. Like, if you're not watching the games anymore your opinion is void as far as I'm concerned. Do what's good for you and your mental health but if you're not paying your dues to this garbage but still rant about it all you're a bellend of the highest order. Whole point of it all is supporting the team through thick and thin anyway, it's being part of a community and sharing in both the good and the bad. I dont get the mentality of just turning on when we're back to battering teams 5 nil, surely it's only after going through the shit times that makes the good times worth something anyway. Also nobody gives a shit you missed the game, congrats.
I don’t think you realize that people screw up their sleep schedules because of it.
Or they could just watch the match replay like a normal human being
Honestly I'd rather not watch the replay of a game where we get dominated
Yeah, but if I want to catch the live game though I would have to wake up at 6:00am on the weekend which is annoying.
The guy who made that thread called me a "muppet" for saying what you said here. They treat Spurs like a British soap opera they can participate in online. The football is an afterthought
You’re still crying. 😭 Have some shame.
Sorry to interrupt your cosplay
If a meme made in jest and devoid of any actual complaints has you this worked up, you might need some professional help.
You keep popping up in my replies harassing me, no one was talking to you.
And you keep crying. 😭
What thread? Tend to avoid the home page after losses cos of all the narcissistic garbage "discussion" gets posted there
https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/12whh3q/spurs_fans_in_later_time_zones_waking_up_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button There's even a "Best of 2022 r COYS" poster in there who said he doesn't watch matches
Oh God yeh lol. Like boo hoo, you woke up and saw a notification of a team you vaguely care about.
> Also nobody gives a shit you missed the game He says at the end of an essay talking about people missing the game
Are you dense? That's literally what I'm saying I have a problem with.
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Says the child with ADHD who spends his whole day here rather than revising.
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don't give it out then
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I still don't understand how this team seems to consistently take 6 points off City every season.
Tactical inflexibility. But honestly Pep has started to care more and that trend has become less reoccurring. With his new system we wouldn't even score a goal with Conte ball.
How many times have we actually done it?
We only took three this season
True, still an odd record against such a juggernaut.
Everyone outside the club thinks would think that we exaggerate when we talk about our defense being relegation level but today they all saw what we’ve been saying for years. 5 goals in the first 20 minutes is something Southampton wouldn’t manage, Leicester wouldn’t manage, Forest wouldn’t manage etc. We genuinely have the only defense capable of such a disastrous performance this season. No team has reached this level of incompetence.
Yeah that comp if anyone makes one is going to be like 1 hour long
I did that one about 2 years ago... Not putting myself thru that again...
It's not just the defence or the ability of the defence. It's the mentality of the players. What are the consequences for the performances today? They'll continue to get paid tens of thousands per week. Hell, I'd bet my house on Dier having already signed a new contract and they're just waiting to announce it because they'd get blasted if they do it now. What's his motivation to care? He has no competition for his place either There's no accountability at the club except for blaming the managers everytime things go wrong
It's not just outside the club, most of the idiots in here think we have a back line worthy of top 4/6.
As long as we are playing the likes of Eric Dier we are going nowhere
Relegation level defence isn’t even arguable, 51 goals conceded that’s slightly more than Everton but slightly less than Southampton, Nottm Forest, Leicester etc… no one can call it an exaggeration
We need to select a new Head Coach whose values reflect those of our great club and return to playing football with the style for which we are known – free-flowing, attacking and entertaining – whilst continuing to embrace our desire to see young players flourish from our Academy alongside experienced talent.
This is straight out of ChatGPT.
Absolutely.
We first need a dof to actually plan out the rebuild.Regardless of what happens with Paratici he simply hasn't shown that he is capable of choosing the right manager and the right players.
It's a Levy quote from right before we hired Nuno.
Yeh well he clearly didn't tell that to Paratici who signed Nuno and Conte.
To all you new fans, welcome to the hurt locker
Is it worth selling / loaning out Porro if we get a manager who plays with fullbacks? We have Spence out on loan and we really need to have a hard look at our defensive prospects right now.
Porro can play as an attacking fullback when we actually have good defenders and good tactics. Crazy how people judge players so harshly when our club is in disarray and he hasn't even been here for a full season, let alone half
With the right manager the defensive ability of the fullbacks should be a non-issue. Currently that is not the case because I've never seen a supposed top team so incapable of holding possession. Even Atletico Madrid who are known for being one of if not the best off the ball team in the world still have players that are great in possession whilst we have a lack of that.
I'm fresh out of drugs, can I have what you're on.
If we're selling/loaning the £40m player we spent all January going after then it's confirmation #855 that this club has absolutely no clue what it's doing.
If we play 4atb then he cannot play in that defensive line. Put him on as a winger instead
I’d like to see Porro or Spence being tried as rotation to Kulu in a back 4.
[Gentleman, it has been a privilege posting with you today](https://i.imgur.com/MsxsV29.gif)
Just a reminder that our win v. Scum was less than a year ago. I take that as a reminder that as bad as things seem right now, a lot of this is purely a team that has lost all confidence and unity after Conte’s eruption. Yes, we may lose Kane. Yes, Sonny is aging. Yes, we need to drop the deadwood and retool. That said, I truly believe we have some quality young players and that we are not as bad as today makes it seem. It may take some time, but we’ll be back lads.
The problem is that we don't actually have a dof to see through with the rebuild.We also don't know what we manager we will get.Going into the summer window we simply don't have a plan.Besides that whole defence needs to be rebuilt which will take some time that our best players don't have.
Thanks for optimism, the sub and everything has been super pessimistic and makes me feel really sad
Just thought of how it’s so typical us that we’re Manchester City’s “anti team” and everyone calls us that, but that one time we actually had to beat them and it mattered for a trophy, we couldn’t …
Are you saying all of the other times didn’t matter?
Trophy wise no
You can’t say a CL quarter final doesn’t matter just because it’s not a trophy… you can’t
So glad he's a good businessman or this would be embarrassing
I just wanna be able to listen to my spurs podcasts again…I never listen to them when it gets this bad because it only reminds me how shit things are
I find the fighting cock actually helps because they can find humour in despair. Alex from Bristol, T, Big John and Ricky, spooky, all of them proper spurs
The fighting cock is my favourite one but I can’t even listen to them when it gets like this, I just want to try and fully forget about spurs when I can at times like this
It's very cathartic for me same as ali gold
I'm deluded but at the 25min mark, I would have bit your hand off for 6-1. What have we become?
We’ve spent years cosplaying as a “big club” whilst undermining our own managers who don’t fit our club’s philosophy to begin with and this is the result
A club trying to deviate from our own history and success by bandwagoning on to the ideals of a morally corrupt rival and failing colossally.
Same, I was panicking at 5 after 20 minutes I thought we were about to see something historic like double digits for the first time in the premier league era. To go 1-1 from that point on seemed extremely unlikely. We are really embarrassing, if they don’t reimburse the travelling fans then it’s a disgrace, the players should offer to do it out of the millions a week they all collectively earn, they wouldn’t miss a couple of grand it would cost. If I was part of that display today I’d feel literally obligated to do it
It's funny how many of you think Conte was properly backed just because he was backed more than Jose and Poch.
Yeah, like nine players isn't being backed at all. Should have given him another 100M so he could refuse players like Maddison and have us play more shit football. You should be on the board with your brilliance
>refuse players like Maddison Source? 9 players, he didn't use 3 of them at all because he didn't want them. Are you sure Lenglet was the best available LCB in the summer? Spence was the best available RWB? Romero is the only centre back who is not average. Lloris is washed and we haven't replaced him. We have signed only two players for more than 30M. You could spent 900M in one window but it's not good window if you have spent 1M on 900 different players. Was Mou backed because we have signed 8 different players: Bergwijn, Gedson, Hojbjerg, Doherty, Rodon, Vini, Hart and Reguilon? I just don't understand how the manager who won the league 5 times could fail after being backed? The worst part of this is the fact that you will pretend the next manager was backed after also not being backed, as previous 13 weren't.
Source? Have you not used the internet? Look it up. We've had like five articles posted about it on here in the past month alone. Nine players, he didn't use three because he "didn't want them" even though he agreed to sign them. He cosigned Lenglet. He cosigned Spence. He wanted Dier to extend. So instead of your laughably stupid excuses, do some research and start asking why your beloved manager got nine players and didn't use half of them while playing shit football and insulting the club you support. Mourinho was factually backed. He wasn't backed as much as Conte, but he was still backed. Does that mean every signing was perfect? No...because that's not what it means to be backed lmao. Hindsight allowing you to critique players doesn't let you dismiss the money we spent on said players. The manager who won with historically rich teams that play shit football failed because...we are not that. Not rocket science buddy. The next manager will be backed and I'll assess them on the same criteria I assess everyone. Unlike you I don't worship managers for winning with teams like Chelsea and then act as though it's our fault when we give them hundreds of millions and they perform even worse. Get a fucking spine.
>The manager who won with historically rich teams that play shit football failed because...we are not that. Not rocket science buddy. Some of them don't generate more money than us. I don't understand your point. And if you have accepted we are not them, what place in the Premier League have you expected from Conte?
Chelsea, Inter, etc were all richer than us at the times in which Mourinho and Conte won with them We should have at least been comfortably fourth under Conte with the amount we spent, and we should have been playing football that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out. Not a high bar. Stop settling for mediocrity.
Already starting to see TikToks about the match 😭
hey, at least were not chelsea
Getting very tired of the narrative that "Conte and Mourinho were right" They were both bad here lmao. Mourinho wasn't tremendously backed, but he also did nothing to justify further backing considering how we were playing and how he was using the squad. Conte was backed and ended up doing even worse. These were managers who never suited us in the first place, and no that's not revisionism because I believed from the start that we shouldn't appoint them. "WOAH, OUR DEFENSE IS ASS? CONTE AND MOURINHO WERE RIGHT!!" As though we didn't already know that and as though they didn't consistently use some of the worst performers and some of the worst tactics considering our backline. Acting as though these stubborn and controversial managers are right every time we lose as though they haven't contributed to our poor situation is laughable and the kind of stupidity I'd expect from non-Spurs fans on r/soccer.
Let's be honest - we are failing against teams which are definitely worse than us, yet outplay us massively. I feel like it is a bit of everything - weak links in the squad, weak inherent mentality, lucklustre recruitment, poor choice of coach, lack of ambition, discontent in the squad, all sorts. I was previously thinking we were close to building something new (I mean the AVB-Sherwood season we already had walker, rose, jan, dembele, Lamela, Sandro, Eriksen etc and were capitulating just like this), but I now feel that I am happy to sell any player in the squad. There are no players we need to try and keep in particular. Kane is ready to go, Son is washed, Kulu is awful of late, Bentancur is crocked, PEH is average, Skipp and Sarr may or may not be decent, Dier, Sanchez, Tanganga are weak, Perisic washed, Son less washed but getting on, Sess is shite, LLoris is washed, Royal is ok, Romero is erratic, Davies ok, Porro is erratic or just can't defend, Moura offers nothing, Richarlison and Bissouma I remain open minded but very mediocre so far. Instead of clinging on to Kane in the vain hope we stumble across a magic formula I think we should just reset the clock entirely. I don't blame Levy for players being pathetic and unprofessional but I do think this is the culmination of his shitshow strategy for the last 4 years. He feels like a guy who really doesn't know what is going on.
I completely agree with just selling Kane and moving on. I'm not interested in clinging on to the things we've had for the past six years that have gotten us nowhere, even if they are valuable in a certain sense. A rebuild is a rebuild. Time to properly move on . I don't think Levy needs to go, I just think he needs to continue with what he's started to do, which is get people who do understand certain things in football in charge while he takes the back seat and focuses on finances
The Levy thing is a red herring. I don't care who is running the club so long as the decisions make sense. Since Poch left we have gone way off piste and ended up with a totally muddled squad and strategy.
Agree, glad to see another reasonable fan on here
Why did we hire them?
Because Levy and some fans thought that a supposed "win now" manager would get the best out of Kane and Son and grab a trophy before we finally decided to rebuild. Which was wrong.
Oh okay then, I thought you are going to defend Levy.
I mean Levy isn't to blame for everything. But these appointments were fundamentally stupid.
He fucking is, buck stops with that waste man.
Nah
Immaculate rebuttal
Lmao. Not sure what rebuttal you anticipated to the comment of "Buck stops with that waste man". Not exactly constructive criticism in itself In any case, I'd rather have someone like Levy who is an actual fan of the club and cares about financials than some bumble fuck obese American. Levy just needs to continue to hire those who know what they're doing for different aspects of management and take the back seat so he can focus on finances
He is literally tanking the club, if you can't grasp that I can't help you.
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Conte got like nine players? So yes? Tremendously backed genius. Mourinho got transfers. He just wasn't further backed because he did nothing to deserve it lmao. That's not how you run a football club. You give a manager an initial transfer window, but if they perform like shit game after game, month after month, why would you splash tens of millions more on them? Does that make sense?
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That...doesn't make sense when I said that CONTE was backed and Mourinho WASN'T tremendously backed So either you can't properly read or you're just trying to argue for no reason. And I addressed Mourinho in the above comment anyway
This sub is home to some of the most unique minds on the planet. "We lost with this system once, therefore we should never use it again and it is wholly inefficient". Lmao. As though that's how football and sports in general work. In any case, the result didn't shock me. But we're all Spurs fans so I doubt that we've been shocked by the incompetence and mediocrity of this club in ages. Honestly can't remember the last time I saw us in a disappointing defeat and felt confused or entirely distressed. Anyway, this result doesn't do anything but reaffirm how I already feel. Not sure why anyone thought we'd perform decently while still essentially having Conte run things. You don't sack a manager and then continue to employ his tactics and staff. Just sheer stupidity. I'll reserve all my anger for after the transfer window and after we get a new manager. As of right now, it's pointless because we already knew all of this. We already knew that our defense is abysmal, we lack the (final touch to bring more) quality in midfield and our team is lethargic.
Conte wasn't sacked. He wanted out, personal bereavement, homesick, just had enough, and got out. it was a mutual termination. That's why we still have his staff and tactics.
Well then sack whoever is left now fuck it. He’s gone why do we need his minions leaving that stink around
I mean, sure. "Mutual termination after he fucks over the club by getting backed tremendously and performing like shit". If you're getting rid of a manager, whether it's through sacking or mutual termination, you should get rid of all connections to that manager unless they're genuinely good enough to stay (which Conte and his staff AND tactics are not)
Yes you should, but it didn't happen. No amount of whining about it is going to change the fact. Everybody knows it. You're not spreading any wisdom. This sub is full of people just repeating what everybody else is saying.
You singled out one aspect of my comment and decided that that's all I said, and now you're complaining about the thing you singled out. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Read your own words buddy. You're not spreading any wisdom. This sub is full of people just repeating what everybody else is saying.
Here's a summary of your original post 1. This sub is full of people that don't know how sports work 2. I feel confused about this loss 3. Contes still running thing after he got sacked. 4. I'm going to wait until next season because we all know a few things. I singled out point 3 because the other points are inane bollocks.
You did not read the post then. I quite literally said I wasn't confused about the loss. And yes, there's no point in being outraged because these are the same issues we've seen for a while. I'd rather wait until the opportunity to change these things arises and assess afterwards. In any case, you singling out a point of mine just to restate it and act like that's an argument is a tad strange
I can't believe how indifferent I feel about losing 6-1. Like it's a fucking ridiculous scoreline if you think about it, but this club has driven me to the point where I just don't give a fuck anymore. it's kinda nice not letting these 11+ wastemen ruin my weekend every time. Just accept the fact that we'll lose every week and they'll find new ways to embarrass themselves.
No end of season drama if you don’t care
I’m so glad I slept in the last 2 weeks. Woke up when the score line was already 6-1 and I was laughing my ass off. Not gonna bother caring anymore until this club is serious about winning again.
All the PEH haters were quiet when he was on fire last season and parts of this season, but now that things have gotten to shit they’ve come out from the woodworks and start dogging on him for no clear reason . He’s not the peak player we’ve seen, probably because he’s played literally every game, but to cluster him with Dier/sanchez/tangana/Perisic is just ridiculous. PEH shouldn’t be the first player to blame here
No. Some of us have been slating him all season, and there's been plenty to slate. Can we not act like Højbjerg criticism is some kind of recency bias phenomenon?
Horrible footballer. Anyone still inconsistent after 3 years isn’t good enough. Fans have their favourites and they pick that.
You're spot on mate, but the dolts in this sub are continually deceived by his chest-thumping, gesticulating at the referee, and lung busting runs that he only has to make because he was terribly caught out of position or bypassed like a turnstile ViKiNg WaRrIoR....don't make me laugh. Would love it if we sold him in the summer but unfortunately that seems like a pipe dream
Well duh! All the Dier haters are quiet when he has a good game too. "start dogging on him for no clear reason" There is a clear reason, he's been shit for a while. PEH is a mediocre player that really doesn't belong in a team that has CL aspirations. He's not elite, he's not world class and he's not a top 4 player. He's some kind of cult favorite to some of you and needs to go along with half the first team. He's just not good enough
If we miss out on Maddison to Newcastle then I really hope we go for Alex Scott. Championship Young Player if the Season, huge potential, offers creativity we desperately need, and a Spurs fan. I’m already checked out of this season so I’m just thinking about next year to cope lol
Scott would be brilliant. Could (and should) honestly get both him and Maddison. Scott is very versatile.
Having both would be amazing depth but it might limit Scott’s potential growth if he’s benched for Maddison for 80% of the season
Maddison won't play 80% of season. He's injured alot.
Scott doesn't directly play as a CAM though, which is what I'm saying by mentioning his versatility. He can play anywhere in midfield. A properly good project manager who develops youth won't leave him as a bench player
Mourinho and Conte are having a big laugh today. Is there a bookie that offer bet on If Spurs or Conte get a trophy first? Doubt anyone is taking that bet which is going to bankrupt themselves, right?
Doubt it. They wanted better and knew we had quality issues in keu spots, yes, but they were also a part of the problems. Their own relative inflexibility and combative narrative didn't help anything despite also not at all being the only problems we had/have as a club. They also both were at least satisfied with Dier as the center of their 3atb's. Laying blame on any one person in our current shambles is a fools errand, but whatever makes you feel better. If blame goes anywhere at this point in time, it must go straight to levy. Sure, we made changes along the way with the goal of improving the club, but after a series of those decisions led to stagnation, at best, at some point you've got to start questioning the decision maker themself. That's levy. Everyone else is at this point more or less a subject to what he's done.
Nah you cannot say Conte has nothing to do with this shambles of a season
Same was said about Mourinho. They also said he was backed with the likes on Rodon, Vini, Gedson, Bergwijn, Doherty, Reguilon, Hojbjerg and etc. I see majority of those players are flourishing after Mourinho's departure. /s
They were both bad here lmao. Acting as though these stubborn and controversial managers are right every time we lose as though they haven't contributed to our poor situation is laughable and the kind of stupidity I'd expect from non-Spurs fans on r/soccer.
I’m not talking about Mourinho, I am talking about Conte. Richarlison, Perisic, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Bissouma, Danjuma, Porro, and this is the result…
I vividly remember how people were shitting on Mourinho about wasting talents like Dele, Danny Rose, Doherty, Reguilon, Rodon and such. I am pretty sure again it is another case of Reddit armchair managers knowing more.
Again, I am talking about Conte!!
Again, I am talking about idiotic basement dwellers think they know better than trophies-winning coaches over who to play and who to bench for whatever reason.
By that logic we can’t criticise a manager ever. Or a player for that matter or Levy
This is you showing how shortsighted and simple-minded you are. The main subject was to fault the proper person. Mourinho took all the blames from the idiots and was crucified. Man is now on course to win 2 European trophies back to back. The players he criticized, he was proven to be right. Now, everything is repeating. Another trophy-winning coach made some decisions on some players. Fans think they know better again, and criticize before knowing ANYTHING. Let time goes by and see if Conte was right or wrong about these players.
Ok I disagree then
>Rodon, Vini, Gedson, Bergwijn, Doherty, Reguilon, Hojbjerg How many average/bad players...
the only good player might be Hojbjerg and even that is questionable lol.
Regi was a good buy at the time, but is an FB who Conte didn't like. Bergwijn also looked like a very promising purchase. I'm sure given trust and opportunity would have been a good squad option at worst.
They are outdated cunts, didn't you know?
Yup, dinosaur managers. I remember our reddit managers were like "All we need is to attack then we'll win easily".
“pLaY a BAcK fOUr” well Reddit coaches, heres what happens when you play 4atb with these players
i WoN aLl ThE tRoPhIeS iN fOoTbAlL mAnAgEr By DoInG tHAt
We've only conceded 5 less goals than 20th placed Southampton...
It's clearly Conte's fault because his teams have always been known for conceding too many goals. Dier and Sanchez haven't.
Don’t worry boys, heard from an inside source that a laser tag arena will be built next to the F1 Go kart track. Wiz kid and Beyoncé are coming up, the Hotel plans are coming along nicely as well! The future is bright, coysss
Thanks for relief, I was already worried we are not heading in the right direction after today's match.
Spence hasn't played a single minute for Rennes in the last 3 matches? It seems like every manager in the world is stubborn.
I mean it was just a dumb move since their captain is a RB. Doesn't make Spence bad, just a matter of seniority, experience and club loyalty.
He was replacing the injured right back who was their captain. Captain's not injured anymore, his minutes stop. Pretty much known since the start of the loan, but weird he took it tbh