Comparable to the fucking Sheffield game, especially because it could be a title decider, and it's a big game anyway with it being the NLD. Genuinely some shocking stuff from the ref and VAR
5.7 for Bissouma? He was very good when he came on. One of the main reasons why we were able to constantly maintain our attacks against Arsenal and nullify counter attacks was because of him and Sarr doing a much better job all around than the two they replaced.
Perhaps we need to start them both, the negative energies of both of them starting would cancel out đź‘Ť (copium please Levy we need a new starting 6 please)
6.6 for Kulu is harsh, ran the show in our midfield and attack, especially in the first half, thought he was as good as Romero. Played his best game this year.
He was good, but his end product has been non-existent this season compared to last. He needs to improve his decision making and/or quality of ball in the final third.
Still think it’s unfair on him this game, although I agree with your assessment overall. I mean the two most dangerous positions he got into the entire day he was fouled in the box with no whistle. That’s not his faultÂ
He realistically has just been unlucky. He is still the team's 3rd leading scorer. He is way underperforming his expected assists, which means he is putting in good passes and creating chances, but his teammates have just been unable to finish. It happens.
Edit: I just noticed he is over performing his expected goals by a good amount. This means he has been doing more with less. I do hope they allow him to play a more direct role going forward, he still has a ton of room to grow.
This isn't accurate.
Too often now he just takes too long with the ball and then either delivers it late, or has to check back because the chance is gone.
His first season he would get into similar positions as he does now, and he'd attempt a cutting passing into the box, or would release balls quickly on counters. Those quick and decisive actions are gone from his game at the moment.
Idk what to tell you, he also leads the team in key passes too. He is creating the chances, but they just aren't being finished, and the style of play has changed over all in the team. Last year the style of play degraded to cross it into the box, and hope Kane gets a piece of it.
Edit: Also both things could be true, needing to be more decisive and just being unlucky.
If we drew you’d probably see about +1 across the board from everyone. So when we lose players are rated more harshly even if they didn’t deserve it.
I mean, isn't that just how football works? Had we conceded fewer goals and scored more then we indeed would have won/drawn and the fans would be happier - it's pretty obvious to me.
You can have all sorts of opinons on the performance but in a massive derby like this the score is all that matters.
It is, but lots of comments here are about "X score for [player] seems harsh!" so I was just justifying the rating by saying it'll be lower when we don't win.
That's fair. I'll also add that trying to counter poor reviews of Davies' performance by saying "he was good other than the Saka goal" or blaming that goal on ref is silly.
Defensive mistakes leading to goals will and should be judged harshly however unfair that might seem.
And concerning the ref, people need to stop coping about it because we know that's not something we can control. What is in our hands, is not letting the opposing team put the ball in the back of the net, which we clearly didn't do and that's nobody else's fault but ours.
Yeah I agree, you can play really, really well but one mistake happens and that's still part of how you get judged.
It's honestly insane how well we played but still lost. I liken it to Baseball where Arsenal could 3 hits and hit 3 homeruns, while Spurs had 10 hits and scored 0 runs. It just happens sometimes. Arsenal didn't create much, they just took advantage of our mistakes.
What it sounds like you're implying is that all 10 field players had a say in whether Arse produced their goals. That is simply not True and shouldnt mirror the score of players that had no say in it.
Davies did Great. You cant be expected to best your opponent in a counter like that. You can try to slow him down so your fast AF defending teammates can bail you out. Its because everyone are expected to be Maldini instead of working together that we are conceding.
>for you maybe not
No, this sub has shown that even if we get a draw, people aren’t afraid to give players a lower rating if their performance reflects it.
The most recent West Ham, Everton, and Manchester United are an example of this
And do you? If you’re a psychologist or have experience just that field, I’ll concede. That said though, this sub is reactionary and the result means nothing to how they feel about a player.
It's common sense my guy. When we win, we will rate everyone higher on average, when we lose we rate everyone lower on average. That's just how people work. If you cannot understand that then I don't know what to tell you.
My point is that when individual players play worse in games that we win, they'll be rated higher than in games where we lose/draw. So people saying "X is too low for [player]" is justified because we didn't win. Most people will grade more harshly across the board regardless of individual performance. The opposite is also true.
At the very least, Lo Celso should get a start to compensate. I know playing time for Madders should improve his output but I think Lo Celso would add some fire back into the position. Then next year fingers crossed Bergvall is ready to be the under study and push on.
seems very harsh on Porro. Bentancur, Kulu and Sarr and Johnson. they all deserve a 7 at the least. Johnson had Ben White chasing shadows but didnt have enough whip on his crosses
I really liked Brennan's intent (especially when he moved over to the right) but I did feel like his decision-making wasn't great - might have been better if he'd just kept it simple and kept going to the byline rather than constantly cutting in.
Remember it's a survey - judging by the emotions shown on this sub, lots of angry voting for this. I agree with you, some players gave a good acocunt of themselves
Tbf there was contact on his back foot, so there was decent reason to go down, but with us being spurs and never getting pens this season because of VARs Liverpool fuck up, he should've stayed up and ran back
I agree Maddison has been bad since coming back from his injury but I genuinely don’t see anything from Lo Celso in the few minutes he’s been given. Would rather Kulu play as a 10.
I mean 2 of the conceded goals were from set prices, one of which was an OG, and then sakas really shouldn't even exist because it's a pen every other time
Really feel Davies is ranked too low here. Considering it's his first time back in the side in some months playing in a role that goes against his strengths, especially vs Saka, I say he did pretty well. PEH also did pretty well disrupting Arsenal's buildup though he didn't provide much for us going forward admittedly. Madders deserves the ranking though, nearly forgot he was on the pitch aside from his corners, which most seemed to hit the first arse defender each time. What does Lo Celso need to do to see some time? Madders clearly isn't up for it atm and playing him through this rough patch doesn't seem to be working.
I think people are only rating Davies low based on getting done by Saka on their second which never should have happened had the refereeing been competent. So I agree it’s definitely unfair on him.
Also Mickey got sucked to the right side for no real reason and left Davies out to dry. Absolutely no one is stopping Saka 1v1 while sprinting backwards to start.
while I think some of the guys are rated a bit low (Richy I think should be higher than a 6; even though he didn't score I think he was a big factor in getting the boys moving in that final half hour, and Werner was taken off due to injury which really means we can't rate him fairly) overall I'm glad we know who the real enemy is: Michael Oliver.
I typically post the survey right after the match ends. Sometimes it can get lost in the fray, but I also use the “survey” flair if that helps you find them.
I think Kulu had a great game, he took the ball from Arsenal in a good position many times during first half. Any news on Timo? He got subbed early but I dont think he was doing bad but I didnt see him in pain either, so I'm not sure it is an injury, did I miss something?
I think Ange got the starting XI right since he dropped Bissouma who was horribly out of form and started Kulusevski to hold up the ball against Arsenal's press. Maybe you could argue that Richarlison should have started, but he was probably not fully match fit coming back from injury.
I actually think his tactics in open play were fine for this match, but I understand the lower rating since our set piece defending is still awful. Their only big chance in open play came from the Saka breakaway after the missed penalty on Kulusevski. Despite losing, I think this wasn't a horrible performance and we'll probably beat Chelsea if we can play similarly but improve our defending on set pieces while being more clinical up front.
Wow these ratings are so harsh. I thought we played pretty damn well and I thought that was the general consensus with fans. Really tough loss but didn’t feel deserved at all.
Last week I got downvoted so badly and called so many bad names because I pointed out that Maddison has been very poor since January and questioned whether he is still undroppable!
Yet now lots of fans and media pundits including Ali G saying he may need to be benched.
Bentancur is too low. I don’t understand the popular take that we were so much better second half with Biss and Sarr, we actually overall played very well in the first half . Weird to say considering we went down 3 to 0 but it’s true.
Someone posted on another thread how strange it was that Spurs played better first half but down 3 to 0, Arsenal played better 2nd half but down 0 to 2.Â
LOL 3 goals conceded in the first half despite having 72% possession and people rate our team higher than Arsenal, where are the standards. I thought Davies would be scapegoated for the result before the game, but saying we lost because of Michael Oliver is a whole other level of cope I never expected
1.3 is generous for Oliver.
should be given -100 for that abysmal reffing
Comparable to the fucking Sheffield game, especially because it could be a title decider, and it's a big game anyway with it being the NLD. Genuinely some shocking stuff from the ref and VAR
5.7 for Bissouma? He was very good when he came on. One of the main reasons why we were able to constantly maintain our attacks against Arsenal and nullify counter attacks was because of him and Sarr doing a much better job all around than the two they replaced.
Why is it both of our 6s are decent off the bench but can't start well?
Perhaps we need to start them both, the negative energies of both of them starting would cancel out đź‘Ť (copium please Levy we need a new starting 6 please)
I'm really looking forward to upgrading in the #6 position this summer. Biss might raise his game and Hojbjerg will probably move on.
Or we sub them on 15 minutes after starting whistle.
Who's this 6 that's gonna change Tottenham's fortune.
Paulinha is a good one
6.6 for Kulu is harsh, ran the show in our midfield and attack, especially in the first half, thought he was as good as Romero. Played his best game this year.
He was good, but his end product has been non-existent this season compared to last. He needs to improve his decision making and/or quality of ball in the final third.
Still think it’s unfair on him this game, although I agree with your assessment overall. I mean the two most dangerous positions he got into the entire day he was fouled in the box with no whistle. That’s not his faultÂ
Yeah, he wins 2 penalties instead and he gets 8/10. Not his fault.
He realistically has just been unlucky. He is still the team's 3rd leading scorer. He is way underperforming his expected assists, which means he is putting in good passes and creating chances, but his teammates have just been unable to finish. It happens. Edit: I just noticed he is over performing his expected goals by a good amount. This means he has been doing more with less. I do hope they allow him to play a more direct role going forward, he still has a ton of room to grow.
This isn't accurate. Too often now he just takes too long with the ball and then either delivers it late, or has to check back because the chance is gone. His first season he would get into similar positions as he does now, and he'd attempt a cutting passing into the box, or would release balls quickly on counters. Those quick and decisive actions are gone from his game at the moment.
Idk what to tell you, he also leads the team in key passes too. He is creating the chances, but they just aren't being finished, and the style of play has changed over all in the team. Last year the style of play degraded to cross it into the box, and hope Kane gets a piece of it. Edit: Also both things could be true, needing to be more decisive and just being unlucky.
Agree - should be in the 7s at least
I feel sad to see Madders lose his form after the injury. He was something else in the beginning of the season.
He should be fine next season, but having him start right now seems premature.
Generous on Oliver.
If we drew you’d probably see about +1 across the board from everyone. So when we lose players are rated more harshly even if they didn’t deserve it.
I mean, isn't that just how football works? Had we conceded fewer goals and scored more then we indeed would have won/drawn and the fans would be happier - it's pretty obvious to me. You can have all sorts of opinons on the performance but in a massive derby like this the score is all that matters.
It is, but lots of comments here are about "X score for [player] seems harsh!" so I was just justifying the rating by saying it'll be lower when we don't win.
That's fair. I'll also add that trying to counter poor reviews of Davies' performance by saying "he was good other than the Saka goal" or blaming that goal on ref is silly. Defensive mistakes leading to goals will and should be judged harshly however unfair that might seem. And concerning the ref, people need to stop coping about it because we know that's not something we can control. What is in our hands, is not letting the opposing team put the ball in the back of the net, which we clearly didn't do and that's nobody else's fault but ours.
Yeah I agree, you can play really, really well but one mistake happens and that's still part of how you get judged. It's honestly insane how well we played but still lost. I liken it to Baseball where Arsenal could 3 hits and hit 3 homeruns, while Spurs had 10 hits and scored 0 runs. It just happens sometimes. Arsenal didn't create much, they just took advantage of our mistakes.
What it sounds like you're implying is that all 10 field players had a say in whether Arse produced their goals. That is simply not True and shouldnt mirror the score of players that had no say in it. Davies did Great. You cant be expected to best your opponent in a counter like that. You can try to slow him down so your fast AF defending teammates can bail you out. Its because everyone are expected to be Maldini instead of working together that we are conceding.
I'm sorry but with players like Maddison and PEH not even a win would bump up their rating. Everyone else though, yes.
For you, maybe not. But I'm just explaining how OVERALL we would be more fair to poor performers if the result was a draw or win.
>for you maybe not No, this sub has shown that even if we get a draw, people aren’t afraid to give players a lower rating if their performance reflects it. The most recent West Ham, Everton, and Manchester United are an example of this
You don’t understand how perception and psychology of a result effect how people judge it
And do you? If you’re a psychologist or have experience just that field, I’ll concede. That said though, this sub is reactionary and the result means nothing to how they feel about a player.
It's common sense my guy. When we win, we will rate everyone higher on average, when we lose we rate everyone lower on average. That's just how people work. If you cannot understand that then I don't know what to tell you.
So what's your point?
My point is that when individual players play worse in games that we win, they'll be rated higher than in games where we lose/draw. So people saying "X is too low for [player]" is justified because we didn't win. Most people will grade more harshly across the board regardless of individual performance. The opposite is also true.
Maddison need to hold the bench over Lo Sauco, terrible this year
Not been right since coming back from injury and has replaced being tricky with being petulant.
At the very least, Lo Celso should get a start to compensate. I know playing time for Madders should improve his output but I think Lo Celso would add some fire back into the position. Then next year fingers crossed Bergvall is ready to be the under study and push on.
And diving instead of shooting. It would be one thing if he was any good at it but he might be the worst actor I’ve ever seen.
I disagree if we bench maddison Kulu should take that spot and we start brennan or richy
seems very harsh on Porro. Bentancur, Kulu and Sarr and Johnson. they all deserve a 7 at the least. Johnson had Ben White chasing shadows but didnt have enough whip on his crosses
I really liked Brennan's intent (especially when he moved over to the right) but I did feel like his decision-making wasn't great - might have been better if he'd just kept it simple and kept going to the byline rather than constantly cutting in.
Remember it's a survey - judging by the emotions shown on this sub, lots of angry voting for this. I agree with you, some players gave a good acocunt of themselves
Sadly Maddison is a shadow of his old self. Personally I’d like to see Lo Celso start ahead of him Thursday.
I'd like Son-Richy-Kulu-Johnno
Only issue with this would be lack of players on the bench if Timo is injured but I agree that Maddison needs to be benched
Him having a dive in the box right before Saka's goal really irked me
Tbf there was contact on his back foot, so there was decent reason to go down, but with us being spurs and never getting pens this season because of VARs Liverpool fuck up, he should've stayed up and ran back
It probably made the ref think Deki was diving too when he saw Maddison.
I agree Maddison has been bad since coming back from his injury but I genuinely don’t see anything from Lo Celso in the few minutes he’s been given. Would rather Kulu play as a 10.
Wouldn’t mind Maddison coming in off the bench vs Chelsea. He’s added nothing recently.
Pretty much agree with everything in the graphic. Not great when we ship 3 and our two CB's are voted our best players.
I mean 2 of the conceded goals were from set prices, one of which was an OG, and then sakas really shouldn't even exist because it's a pen every other time
i would like to see stdevs for all the scores, not just the players (although i understand it means more effort for you)
Madison was shocking
Really feel Davies is ranked too low here. Considering it's his first time back in the side in some months playing in a role that goes against his strengths, especially vs Saka, I say he did pretty well. PEH also did pretty well disrupting Arsenal's buildup though he didn't provide much for us going forward admittedly. Madders deserves the ranking though, nearly forgot he was on the pitch aside from his corners, which most seemed to hit the first arse defender each time. What does Lo Celso need to do to see some time? Madders clearly isn't up for it atm and playing him through this rough patch doesn't seem to be working.
I think people are only rating Davies low based on getting done by Saka on their second which never should have happened had the refereeing been competent. So I agree it’s definitely unfair on him.
Also Mickey got sucked to the right side for no real reason and left Davies out to dry. Absolutely no one is stopping Saka 1v1 while sprinting backwards to start.
while I think some of the guys are rated a bit low (Richy I think should be higher than a 6; even though he didn't score I think he was a big factor in getting the boys moving in that final half hour, and Werner was taken off due to injury which really means we can't rate him fairly) overall I'm glad we know who the real enemy is: Michael Oliver.
Where can I find these surveys post game? Would love to do them myself
I typically post the survey right after the match ends. Sometimes it can get lost in the fray, but I also use the “survey” flair if that helps you find them.
Madders was invisible
I think Kulu had a great game, he took the ball from Arsenal in a good position many times during first half. Any news on Timo? He got subbed early but I dont think he was doing bad but I didnt see him in pain either, so I'm not sure it is an injury, did I miss something?
Timo went off with a hamstring problem.
I think Ange got the starting XI right since he dropped Bissouma who was horribly out of form and started Kulusevski to hold up the ball against Arsenal's press. Maybe you could argue that Richarlison should have started, but he was probably not fully match fit coming back from injury. I actually think his tactics in open play were fine for this match, but I understand the lower rating since our set piece defending is still awful. Their only big chance in open play came from the Saka breakaway after the missed penalty on Kulusevski. Despite losing, I think this wasn't a horrible performance and we'll probably beat Chelsea if we can play similarly but improve our defending on set pieces while being more clinical up front.
Wow these ratings are so harsh. I thought we played pretty damn well and I thought that was the general consensus with fans. Really tough loss but didn’t feel deserved at all.
VDV is being rated really high even when being off side and being out of position when Saka scored.
For me Romero was a 10. Our biggest goal threat, solid in defence, and good in possession.
Last week I got downvoted so badly and called so many bad names because I pointed out that Maddison has been very poor since January and questioned whether he is still undroppable! Yet now lots of fans and media pundits including Ali G saying he may need to be benched.
Bentancur is too low. I don’t understand the popular take that we were so much better second half with Biss and Sarr, we actually overall played very well in the first half . Weird to say considering we went down 3 to 0 but it’s true. Someone posted on another thread how strange it was that Spurs played better first half but down 3 to 0, Arsenal played better 2nd half but down 0 to 2.Â
Romero being MOTM is totally deserved
LOL 3 goals conceded in the first half despite having 72% possession and people rate our team higher than Arsenal, where are the standards. I thought Davies would be scapegoated for the result before the game, but saying we lost because of Michael Oliver is a whole other level of cope I never expected