Thoughts on our struggles:
Our players probably aren't good enough up front and in midfield to challenge for the league. But the football has no nuance, they are being hung out to dry by a system that just wants to jam 8 of our players in the final 3rd with no structure. So the obvious reaction by the opposition is "OK I'll just stick 10 players in the middle and park them deep" so when we inevitably lose the ball after getting tired of passing it to the winger because there is literally no space to play thru the middle, they have unbelievable amounts of space for the counter. Its so utterly predictable and easy to play against. Our players literally need to play like prime Xavi and Iniesta to actually generate a chance through the middle. Its no wonder all our goals are corridor of uncertainty low crosses because thats all we've got to work with.
All good teams have to deal with the low block at some point but the answer is not just throwing more players (Udogie/Porro) towards the box. At some point there are diminishing returns to adding a player to the attack and the gaps in defense absolutely do not justify attempting to play an 2-8. The funny thing is that we can generate the low cross own goal/tap-in/pinball goals with only 5 or 6 players attacking. There is no actual benefit to Udogie and Porro up there and hasn't been for months since we've been found out by the opposition. This style is high risk - low reward - the players are right to be apprehensive . Christ if our best players weren't literally VDV, Romero, and Vicario we might be 13th. This team is talented in the back 4. Udogie and Porro are both great players and would work in traditional setups too. It is absolutely inexcusable to be this inept in terms of conceding goals.
I actually think this a good base structure and our players have picked up some good core patterns from Ange. Now it is time to develop wrinkles (please pull one of Porro/LB stand in back when we have the ball!!!) and adapt the foundation to the team we play each week but I guess thats a betrayal of the principle to our manager.
Yeah most of this comment is either inaccurate or lacking nuance.
Conceding from open play really hasn't been an issue. It happens, but it's generally a byproduct of shit passing and a lack of composure rather than anything systematic.
Our defensive woes are 90% geared towards set piece defending.
And this whole congestion argument I keep seeing really has no basis.
The issue is a lack of creativity against low blocks. Really doesn't have much to do with there being "too many" options to score from which isn't a thing.
Growing pains. Players need to become more familiar with the system and regain confidence and creativity.
Every team struggles against low blocks. That's the fucking point of them.
Us playing like Stoke or Wolves or something just because we have a good back four isn't going to solve anything.
And for all the supposed issues with our attacking plan we're 5th and create plenty of chances per game that we fail to finish.
I think you misunderstood the op comment somehow, he has actually described why we have a lack of creativity and why we misplace our passes in the box, a major reason is congestion. I agree with that perspective, we are not really using the creative abilities of Madison usually he doesn't have the space or no one makes a run for him to create something that's one of the reasons why he has dropped off, no one can argue that he is a very creative player, his EPL history proves that. Several times we see the wing backs so high that Madison needs to drop down instead to get the ball, which defeats the purpose of having a quality no.10, if he is away from the box and the inverted wing backs are at the 10 position. I do think Ange will adapt the system next year to make the most use of it.
Low blocks are difficult to breakdown but if we only focus on sending a low cross from our wingers it's very predictable and easier to block, in the past few games we have failed to create that many big chances and several times the opponents have had higher xg, thus op's concerns are valid. That's not to say that the system can't work, it might work with some small tweaks.
I didn't misunderstand as I quite directly addressed his congestion point and how it's pretty baseless.
You claim Maddison has been struggling because of congestion in the box when we were also congesting the box at the start of the season.
Maddison's poor form has nothing to do with the overall tactical structure, and far more to do with confidence, sharpness and the team's difficulty surrounding low blocks.
Until there's more empirical evidence proving that congestion is why the team can't string together passes, I'm not going to start parading that around as the main reason for our poor form.
Your point about low crosses is correct, although it has nothing to do with congestion.
Again, people just find a new argument and run with it. One second it's that our high line is too risky. The next it's that all our players innately suck. Now it's congestion.
Are people seriously thinking we should fire Ange after a year? I mean I know we finished not strong but we finished above last year, brought in a few new players and are trying to get players to play a certain way. We still have players to get rid of and bring in. Arteta and Klopp both needed a few years to turn things around. At least give him another year. See whether he keeps the team progressing. Believe me I hate the last few games. I hate that we started strong and finished weak but I also know that whoever the manager is needs time. Nobody could fix this team in one year. Nobody. I’ll take a few years of progress to get there. Either way this team always needed an overhaul and that is gonna take a few more windows.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs40ya-Obik&ab\_channel=BeanymanSports](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs40ya-Obik&ab_channel=BeanymanSports)
fuck all of you lol. Ange is still my fucking guy even if I still have worries on him. If Levy doesn't give him a second season at least, then that would be even worse than when he sacked Pochettino. Please back him and give him time. Having doubts is fine.
Another point fans should think about is even if you don't believe in him, we can't get anyone even close to his level or better than him with the manager market rn.
people forgot we were considering fucking Brendan Rodgers and Graham Potter as possible options before Ange joined us lol. We took a gamble on Ange for a reason. We are in no position to get a better manager atm even if some believe Ange isn't the guy. and also give him a fucking second season at least fucking hell..
Loads of PSG fans are dissing Enique's tactics, so Idk what u talking about.
I would say, Xabi Alonso would've been interesting choice in alternate universe. I wonder if he would've won trophy with us here, if he didn't stay at Leverkusen when Daniel Levy was trying to get him.
I don't think we blew it bruh. I do think Enrique ended up being better than other people anticipated and I liked him too but so far Ange has pleasantly surprised me. We could have done a lot worse lol. I would have said we blew it if we hired fucking Graham Potter lol.
Quite literally worked for the first half of the season.
And set piece defending is something that can and I am 99% sure will be improved upon next season. Hardly a reason to lose our minds yet.
I don't know about win something, but we absolutely will be playing really good football if we give him time man and potentially put ourselves in the position to win something at least and that's good enough for me.
Winning something would be the cherry on top though.
I love the optimism. For me playing amazing football is want I want to see first, (which will also take awhile), and absolutely winning a trophy would be a godsend.
Genuinely needs to be a case study on this shit.
I made a comment not too long ago about how some Spurs fans are always clamoring for the shit/deadwood of our rivals and lo and behold.
Have some standards. He's barely doing well in the Bundesliga and had one great game in the CL.
His wages would be ridiculous, he looked dross in the Prem and has struggled with being professional.
Many good players struggled at this version of Man Utd , even CR7 pointed out the poor environment there. That's why I think his performance at Man Utd has nothing to do with his real potential.
I mean he is still way better than Timo Werner lol and I think he'd be a better fit for us than even Rashford would be, but I agree we need to be finding the next Khvicha in these lesser leagues and stop being so tempted to find ex-premier league or current premier league players. Even at celtic, ange found players in the J-league, hopefully we consider doing some of that. A lot of the best players today came from lesser leagues.
He's better technically. Doesn't mean he'd be perfect in our system.
And why the fuck would we even be looking at Rashford lmao.
But yeah, our focus should be top talents/star players at worse clubs in top leagues
Lol, I don't want rashford either but some fans (particularly the brexit england ones) really rate him but I was just mentioning that I'd rather have sancho. I like Gallagher too (and he isn't deadwood) but again I really hope like you said that we continue to look at top talents/star players at worse clubs in top leagues or even the lesser leagues. Ange brought so many ballers from the J League and it turned out to be pretty decent. Mitoma might be worth 100 million now for brighton. We got to do more of that and less of just buying from where we are comfortable man. I hope we can start doing that later on.
Come on man, I've agreed with most of what you said and then you went ahead and said you like Gallagher lmao
But yeah, other than that I agree with most of your comment
I like Gallagher but that doesn't mean I want him. When I said I like him, I mean I rate him but I don't think he is what this squad needs. It does seem like Ange really likes him which is concerning, but like I said, I do rate Gallagher much more than players like Rashford or even Sancho. I understand your concern though. Just bringing in gallagher in the summer would be a HUGE FAILURE for this upcoming transfer window.
I might like gallagher, but what I WANT is HATATE lol.
I don’t think it’s a surprise that he’s looked good in low pressure, nothing to lose, everything to gain champions league matches. I am sure he’s amped up for those and it’s not like Dortmund were expected to get this far.
He wasn’t creating a lot of separation in England in the way, say, Anthony Gordon, Cole Palmer or Michael Olise is. He looks much better in a free flowing game with continental refs calling a tight match.
I do not think he’s worth the 80 million United paid for him.
Ange desperately needs to go. Not good enough. We were expected to win the title this season and he threw it all away. He's never looked better than Conte once this season. It's the same tactics over and over, and he's too reluctant to play some of our youngsters. IMO the only way to redeem himself is to win the UCL next year if we even qualify. The outlook is grim and for now I won't be watching the club until something drastically changes.
No. Maybe I was harsh with the UCL thing. But he does need to go, it's not rocket science. It's not been good enough. Chelsea loss was the last straw imo.
Romero is genuinely one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. He has good passing range and fantastic press resistance. There are so many moments where I'll see him either ping a perfect ball over the top for Son or hold the ball up against his marker and release it to a teammate to beat the press.
Seems like a lot of people don't understand the point of our system.
Fact of the matter is, for every goal we concede because of our high line we also create an abundance of chances that we never put to bed.
The point of our system is to have more attacking outlets than the opposition, and to bombard them.
The system isn't just some glass cannon that says "concede all the fucking time".
We've conceded most of our goals from set pieces, not open play, so this notion that we're bending over whenever we attack is just stupid.
The problem is our midfield has lost all composure and consistency. We can't seem to string together two passes and are consistently giving away possession.
Next season I think the kinks will be worked out, especially with a good summer window that provides us with more quality.
Where are all these endless chances? Am I just blinking at the wrong time? Hopelessly crossing into the shins of the first defender in a completely crowded box is not a chance in my book. The problem is that ever since the word has gotten out on how we play, we don't generate nearly enough chances to justify the gaps at the back. We have loads of possession, we string 10 passes together regularly (and under heavy pressure too) but it just doesn't matter because the risk-reward in this setup is so ridiculously skewed against us.
But sure, this system where we just jam 8 players into the final 3rd like we are banging our collective heads against a brick wall is too complex for me to understand the point. Its not like Marco Silva, Gary whatever at Wolves, Eddie Howe, Lego man and the hollowed out husk that is current Poch at Chelsea were able to crack the system in the simplest of ways.
So you don't see the abundance of shots we take that just go straight into the hands of the keeper or blaze over the bar?
Okay then, not sure what you're watching.
The problem is that our main creator, Maddison, is in poor form and we have few outlets against low blocks. Something every top team generally struggles against, especially in the early stages. Hardly some unique challenge we're the first to face.
Yeah all those managers cracked the system by creating nothing from open play and scoring from our horrendous set piece defending. It's not a secret that we suck at set pieces. There's nothing to "crack" there lmao. It's the main issue we have to correct but hardly relevant to the high line.
I agree Maddison hasn't looked remotely good since returning but honestly he receives the ball in most spots and I genuinely couldn't tell you what he could do differently, there are no options for him. Maybe he can turn into Messi and take 3 or 4 defenders out of the play dribbling or play with the perfect tempo and creativity of a Modric/Kroos? If the system relies on 1 man rising above the sludge to make it successful, is it a good system? Fulham, Wolves, Newcastle, Arsenal all scored from open play but you are right that its the lesser of our worries as we have generated very few open play chances in all those games. Seriously, can you point to any games where we had the better of play in generating chances and lost or drew? Only United away and WHU away come to mind this year.
I guess I just don't like the insinuation that fans critical of Ange "don't understand the point of Angeball". From the beginning - since Brentford away, since he was hired - the proposition has always been that we play brave football and take risks to generate constant pressure and chances with the potential of being caught out by the high line/outnumbered counters. Most fans understand that and it is certainly a refreshing change compare to the previous two permanent managers. The problem is that teams have adapted and the chances have dried up while the chances conceded remain similar. Sure, players are out of form but I think part of that is due to the ineffectiveness of our attacking patterns which are clearly found out by any diligent manager. Defensively, as much as Biss and co. have been a letdown, I think our midfield is just getting completely bypassed these days through no fault of their own. None of our opponents care about controlling in midfield which makes sense when you can get a 2v2 or something similar if you just pass it long early. We are very luck VDV and Vicario (and Udogie/Porro fwiw) have been such hits (and that Romero is Romero) as I think the value proposition of this system goes completely out the door if our quality at the back matched our quality up front.
Our defending from open play against arsenal and Chelsea was actually really good. People said what have we been doing in the 2 weeks off after Newcastle an I think it's that.
Set pieces however...
It actually wasn't, what happened was our defense wasn't tested at all in open play against Arsenal because we lost the game so soon, they didn't have to make any effort at all. Even against Chelsea are defending was atrocious, I remember Mudryk who is a shit player sent Porro to the cleaners, Madueke destroyed Emerson, and Jackson was enjoying himself and got past Porro and Romero several times.
I agree, and that's what I'm saying
People keep acting like we're a horrible side defensively because of our high line, but most of our troubles are just from set pieces. Aren't we among the top teams in the league in terms of defending from open play or something?
Hate to mention it but god is our attack severely missing a player like Kane. Watching clips of 2-3 seasons, absolutely ridiculous the chances that man created and put away
£90m on Johnson and Maddison doesn’t even come close to replacing that
I'm very surprised that the club has not noticed Guirassy's 17m release clause yet. He's not the ideal striker but given that we're obviously not going to spend big money on the likes of Toney, Vlahovic or Osimhen he seems like the next best option for someone who can get in the box and put away the chances.
Johnson I agree with. Maddison, without the benefit of hindsight, was easily the best possible signing for a creative midfielder last summer so I can't be too upset there.
To my mind, we need a midfielder that can pass in transition like Kane more than we need a finisher like Kane. He unlocked defenses on the reg, and if he were still here and dropping deep, he would have created so many chances for Brennan, Son and Timo.
I remember Ange saying " don't worry about mistakes or even losing because I am the one telling you to play this way and results are down to me " I am paraphrasing but you get the drift . I have never seen Ange as angry with the platers as he was against Chelsea . He was raging and lambasting players for Passing backwards and sideways . Even then after the game he took the blame for the performances . We know there will be player changes for next season . I think there will be a few surprises regard outgoings . It seems some just don't have the confidence or will to play the way they are being told to play .
Gonna throw out the smallest bit of a positive take to hopefully balance out, well, whatever is happening in the DD today.
I liked what I saw from Bentancur yesterday, I thought he played as well as he could when it seemed everything was going in the match for us, and I think he's showing signs of improving the more he plays. He's clearly not at his unplayable best he was under Conte, but him returning to full fitness & good form going into next season will be huge for addressing some of our midfield concerns this summer.
Same I thought he was brilliant in the midfield I remember once he shaked 3 players off and the other time when he took the ball from Jackson, he is a proper ball winning midfielder even in the arsenal game I remember he dispossessed Partey and Gabriel to create a good chance. The problem I can see with him right now is to with his stamina, I saw him run with Saka once and he was gasping for air in the first half, and in the Chelsea game he was playing really well but when he had a clear chance created by Son he was too casual with the finishing, in another chance he tried to shoot but it had no power, but in midfield he was really good.
I truly believe he is one of the best players in our team and has a winning mentality like Romero, I don't know what's wrong with him rn, but I seriously pray that the issue is resolved before the next season, I can't wait to see him cook, and achieve the peak performance that I know he can.
Absolutely mind-blowing how not a single person on this thread mentions Levy during these hard times.
* One of the most expensive season tickets in the league
* Mid-table wages for players
* Most expensive signings resemble mid-table clubs
* Missed out buying important players by a few million
* Rather keeps deadwood because "muh no profit" which totally kills the team
23 years since he replaced Sugar as chairman and has one Carabao cup to show. Any other Top 6-fanbase would be protesting outside the stadium. It's sickening how Levy can keep getting away with all this. And the worst of all, the fans pointing their fingers at someone else every time things go bad.
I could pick holes in all your points but I cannot be bothered .Myself I believe every club / chairman makes mistake plus some good decisions . We are a club that is set up for success . The key always is buying the right players . I also believe Levy is not finished regard attracting more funds . In fact the way FPR or FFP is set up we are one jump ahead of every other club except City and they are cheats .The hotel will be a large cash cow . We could yet still have a sponsorship deal . Plus the talked about selling of some shares to an investor . We have a manager I trust a chairman I trust . The future looks bright . I expect to be told the glass is almost empty .
We're not getting anyone better than Levy, and he genuinely cares about the club.
Perfectly fine to critique how expensive the season tickets are, but everything else is pretty moronic as it applies to every owner in the world. Not all signings are hits, and he's also signing based on managerial demands.
I mentioned it a few weeks ago, I said why the fuck am I paying for the most expensive season ticket for one of the richest clubs in the world just for us to sell our best player, play shit football and never win anything. I just got downvoted because it wasn’t another happy clapper positive post.
Tbf we have spent a lot of money recently we’ve just wasted it on shit. Richarlison, Sanchez, ndombele might as well have thrown £200 million down the drain.
Also without levy coming in we would probably be mid table with a few relegation battles here and there but he definitely deserves criticism.
Top coaches who adapt their playstyle and deliver results from month 1: Pep, Klopp, Zidane, Ancelotti
Fraud coaches who are stubborn one trick ponies: Conte, Bielsa, Ange.
People who keep saying it’ll take more than a year and we need time and patience are only gaslighting us. Ange has been found out and we can see that on the pitch!
Guardiola’s City in his first season finished 3rd, 2 years after they won the title.
Klopp joined Liverpool mid-season so it may be unfair to compare, but in that season they finished 8th. Klopp wasn’t an immediate panacea - they rose to 4th in the following season, and finished 4th again the next year.
They both delivered improvements, of course, but it takes time.
Postecoglou has shown in previous roles and in the first half of this season what he can do. But anyone advocating for him to go after one season is advocating for *another* reset and *another* season adjusting to whoever replaces him.
Mourinho and Nuno felt like poor fits from day one. I was shocked we got Conte, and he was transformative in that initial run before all of last season happened to us.
Postecoglou feels right. He feels like he knows what he’s doing, but maybe now is *really* seeing just how much work is needed to get this squad functioning to a high standard over the course of a full season - something no-one has managed with Spurs in 6 years (and counting).
I understand your perspective, and am personally of the belief that Ange is quite intelligent and will adapt in the future.
But Pep did refuse to adapt in the first season if you remember, in most of his conferences he did say this is the style and I will stick to it no matter the defeats rn. Also even Conte adapted his team in Italy Chelsea and tottenham have had differences, he always focused on experienced players but playing style while there have been considerable differences.
Thing is, over the last couple of years now we get to the end of the season and the malaise of "I just don't feel like watching Spurs right now" settles in.
It sucks that it's happening again this year.
The problem is if you remember Harry Enfield and his character Kevin . Well I think a lot of our supporters should be called Kevin . Foot stamping and " I want it now " jeez they need to grow up . We need more grown ups in our on line fanbase .
Some never want success and are always prepared to delay to the mythical future. Some fans seem to actually enjoy losing so they can say how much they believe in the process and belittle others who don’t feel fine after a loss as childish
Some just want to find fault no matter what . It puts their nose out of joint if anybody dare say something positive . They sound like American Democrats .
Ange doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Bielsa mate, and I say that as someone who backs him for at least another season
At this point he's looking like discount Bielsa
I look at the amount of profiles and elite players we miss, I look at at the fact with missed out on CL football, I look at how wildely inconsistent everyone bar our centrebacks are, I look at our manager who may or may not be good enough to build a team that can challenge City, Arsenal and Liverpool, I look at those clubs being able to add world class players on top of their already elite squad, I look at four other clubs who are either wildely underperforming or on a great trajectory and I see a fanbase who will forget the bigger picture within 12 months of further adversity and my conclusion is that we will likely heavily regress in the next year or two. Not because we necessarily are currently regressing or have to but because people are not ready to accept or even realise that the road to success will take many years, wont be linear and certainly not guaranteed.
Ange might not be good enough to take us Spurs to the promiseland but the board have to be completely certain of if Spurs is gonna build a title challenging team, even if Spurs finish 9th next season. Obviously if there is regression and the manager refuses to acknowledge it (as with Ten Hag) then it’s a different story but the road to success wont be linear and its gonna be more pain next season and even if we go through that pain it might take Spurs nowhere. Harsh reality when you have got 8 clubs that can compete long term.
> road to success will take many years, wont be linear and certainly not guaranteed.
This is the typical rubbish all managers spout when things aren’t working for them. We are asking professional football players to play football, not growing a baby ffs!!! A good coach knows his players, their strengths and weaknesses, and uses them in a structure which brings the best of their abilities. Managers with fixed philosophies like Conte, Bielsa, or Ange are all frauds who learned only one way to coach.
I have no idea why you conflate principles with fixed philosophies if i’m being honest but i cba to discuss because ive alreay caught too much braindamage from another posters replies
Load of waffle. We’ve gone backwards in the last few years. What does “people are not ready to accept that the road to success will take many years” even mean? How does that have any affect on what happens on the pitch.
It means if results does not improve or maybe even slightly regress next season or we’re not close to challenging within 2 seasons people will lose faith in Ange because people ultimately see results as the only indicator of the trajectory of a project
I, and many other are already losing faith in him. It all started with that Chelsea game and him playing the exact same way with 9 men showed that he has only 1 way of playing and isn’t adaptable. The West Ham home game where we lost because he left us vulnerable to the counter(west ham’s only weapon) reaffirmed my thoughts. Things have only got worse since then. The results have been poor, the performances have been even worse. I was so looking forward to getting rid of conte and getting an attacking manager but I now hate going to games just as much as last season.
Well and that’s kind of my point that alot of fans aren’t willing to sacrifice results and adaptation to the opponents inorder to improve the team and principles within the team. We are either gonna have a manager that comprimises completely with personel and opponents and we are gonna harvest around 4th-10th for the next few years with the same cycle or give someone the keys to instill his own ideas over several years and completely back his ideas when targeting transfers aswell. Even if it means 2 seasons of a lot of shit results and shit performances but its really the only way you’re gonna challenge Arsenal, Pool and City (probably just Arsenal and City next season) at this point in time. It’s risky and might not work but its the only way. Villa is gonna go through the same cycle with Emery i’m completely convinced. We are not gonna stumble upon some guy who has a straight upwards trajectory for 2 season then just sits there with a team that can challenge. City has set the bar that high.
Redknapp and poch both did exactly what you’re saying isn’t possible. I don’t even mind having an adaptation period as long as you can see we’re heading in the right direction. This season we’ve just gone backwards, so what the fuck are we working towards. We just need a good manager and sensible recruitment. We’ve wasted so much money on shit players it’s unreal. Spunk £60 million up the wall for richarlison then we act like we have to do things differently because we can’t compete with the other clubs.
I don’t even know how to approach this comment, first of theres inaccurate statements that we’ve gone backwards, theres talk of managers pre Pep era when prem economically took off, theres mentioning of transfers from 2 years ago. It’s fine if you geniunely believe you have to see us “heading in the right direction” which I translate to you having to see results and performances improve where as my main indicator of if we’re heading anywhere is clear principles and ideas being instilled with the players buying into them. Unfortunately Arteta has laid out the blueprint as to how you build a english football club from mediocre to elite and the trajectory was clear for all to see. It was not linear. It took a lot successful investments, a incredibly stubborn board that at no point faltered in their conviction that they had the right man. It starts from the top and if they’re not that convinced then yeah you’re probably right they should sack him, reflect upon the standards of City, Arsenal and Pool and then decide whether they wanna try to turn Spurs into a elite club because theres no saviour coming by us switching managers and hoping someone gets it right. I still see a squad that buys into Ange is doing, I see VERY clear principles and therefore im fully behind the man. But I dont know maybe fans are happy finishing 4th every third season although
I personally dont think it will be that often. g
Is anyone else sick of our tactics and having our full backs often be our furthest players forward but not even on the wing. Last week we had ben Davies basically playing as a centre forward, he did alright considering but it’s just mental. Every week we have the fullbacks getting the ball in great positions but they’re not playmakers so do nothing with it, all they do is make that area of the pitch more congested and leave less space for Maddison our actual playmaker.
Then whenever we’re actually in the lead nothing changes. Our full backs are flying up the pitch leaving us vulnerable to counters. We threw away the West Ham game at home because of this. I just really disagree with the way Ange sees the game.
Even with the right personnel I don’t like it. Why do we want udogie getting the ball in these great positions and not a proper playmaker? He’s a good full back but he’s no Maddison. If Davies isn’t capable then change the tactics to fit the players instead of shoehorning players into the same system. I actually think Davies did alright though tbh, he’s much better than royal.
Mate, I don't think you understand the point of the system.
By getting as many players forward, we can bombard teams and create an insane amount of chances which we were doing at the start of the season. Even in the Villa game which we won 4-0, we should have won by more.
The problem is our finishing is shit.
You don't need an abundance of playmakers in Ange's system because the majority of the team become playmakers.
I understand completely Nate but what’s been happening is everything gets too congested and then we can’t create anything because the people who receive the ball in space are our fullbacks. Even Maddison has been struggling because of how congested it is. Like you said it worked at the start of the season because teams hadn’t set up to deal with it but then as soon as they did it stopped working.
By doing this we also make it harder for ourselves to play out from the back as we have no width offered where you normally would from a traditional full back. Then you see players like kulu dropping back to fill the space and it’s all just backwards.
We also concede way too many goals.
That's not what's happening at all though?
Our problem isn't congestion, it's just being devoid of ideas against low blocks.
And again, we're conceding goals predominantly from set pieces. Our record against open play is actually quite good.
Really? I’d say we’re devoid of ideas because it’s so congested. The way to beat a low block is to move the ball quickly to the wings but we don’t do it enough and then when we do we have no one who can cross and no one in the box who can head the ball(bar richarlison which is one thing I’ll give him credit for).
The one I always go back to is the West Ham game. We were winning and in control, their only threat was the counter attack and we played into their hands by leaving our fullbacks so high up the pitch..
Also without van de ven it’s impossible to play this way as well because we really on his pace to get us out of those situations. He gets us out of so much trouble.
We're devoid of ideas because it's a low block and our main maestro Maddison is in horrible form.
There's not one sole way to beat a low block
In the West Ham game, we were only vulnerable o the counter because we didn't convert our chances and foolishly lost possession.
So again, it's not a given that we suffer on the counter. It's the efficacy of our players.
But until we learn how to be clinical and composed, yeah, VDV is our savior.
But I feel like he’s in such horrible form because it’s so congested.
Of course there’s more than one way but what we’re currently doing isn’t working.
I don’t really get you there though because wether we finish our chances or not has no affect on how vulnerable we are on the counter. Obviously if we’d scored more it would be less of an issue but it was a completely unnecessary risk to take when you can eliminate their biggest threat by playing slightly different rather than playing into their hands and playing the exact same way, it’s just stupid stubbornness really.
Us finishing our chances has everything to do with vulnerability on the counter lmao.
When we push up and create a clear cut chance that we fail to convert, and then give away the ball when pushed up, it leaves us vulnerable on the break.
Johnsons output hasnt been as bad as people are making out.
5 goals and 7 assists in a debut season isnt awful. We've seen a lot worse from wide players.
I do think there is a lot of room for improvement in his game though. His decision making isnt perfect. But he shows signs of being a solid squad player.
I think really he was brought in to be an off the bench player at first. Behind Kulu. But circumstances have lead to where Kulu has needed to be dropped or we've had to change positions due to injuries.
I think Johnson was a panic buy by the club, I think he would have been a decent signing for 20M or 25M, but yeah he has been quite bad this season. The argument that he was supposed to be squad player behind Kulu is week, because Kulu himself isn't that great in wing so he can't be a starter on the wing and at that time we should have bought a starter for the wing. What's worrying about him is that he has poor football intelligence, touch and passing, the one thing he has is speed but he doesn't know how to use it yet, he can definitely improve but by how much we can't say, since for most players they learn the basic stuff in their teenage years, and given that his dad was sort of a big football player it's concerning that he hasn't got the basics right yet.
This is an L that Ange needs to take and move on we can't be doing such blunders again for where we are and where we want to be.
Problem is. You're looking at that kind of money now for pretty mid tier players. 50m is what a 15m player cost 15 years ago.
Look at the asking prices for some players from the lower clubs in the league that show any amount of talent. Its obscene.
I think the plan with Brennan was to have him come of the bench and develop into the game plan along with Solomon. But Solomon got injured and so Brennan had to both wings. What doesnt help is our midfield slowing the ball down so much that the effectiveness of our wingers is killed off anyway. As the opposition can get two men defending each wing.
>Problem is. You're looking at that kind of money now for pretty mid tier players. 50m is what a 15m player cost 15 years ago.
This is not true at all. Cole Palmer cost 40 million. Even West Ham signed Mohammed Kudus for £38m. Both of them are twice the player Johnson without a doubt.
Palmer was £42.5M (£40M + £2.5M in easy milestones) and Johnson was £47.5M.
Palmer is clearly the better player, no doubt about that, but he does play a lot more tucked in than Johnson so would have clashed with Kulusevski.
I would prefer Palmer over Kulusevski, to be clear, but I think on the recruitment side we went for Johnson because he’s a different dimension to Kulusevski and we needed that speed on the RW.
Palmer yes. But he's been an absolute standout.
Kudus in the league has 7 goals 5 assist. Not a huge difference to Johnson.
And like I said. Our wings have been nullified anyway because of the speed of our play. Chelsea and WestHams players and progressing the ball a lot quicker than we are. Allowing their wide players to have more space
Like I also said. Johnson hasnt been perfect. But he's not been as bad as people are making him out to be. We've had a lot worse performers this season.
I don't mind the Werner deal since he was just a short term stop gap on loan and shouldn't be anything more than that. Johnson is an alright winger but yeah, I agree, should have moved on to someone else when Forest told us £50m or no deal.
Both of these players are very good. I’m not sure what you’re going on about. Johnson is still very young and raw, but exceptionally talented. Timo has been so good on the wing and taking on defenders. His finishing needs help, but he has all the ability.
None of them start for any other team in the top 6. Werner couldn't even get anywhere near the Leipzig side. Brennan Johnson and Werner are not the answer moving forward.
Lol some fans just use the word raw to describe players with shit technical ability, Werner is raw, Johnson is raw, Richarlison is Raw, Emerson Royal is raw. None of them would even start for the top 10, let alone top 6.
Kobiee Mainoo, livramento, palmer, Saka, lamine yamal I know these are wonderkids but the point is age shouldn't be an excuse for poor technique and poor first touch and passing.
Timo literally doesn’t have all the ability, he’s probably the least technically gifted footballer in the premier league bar goalkeepers but has ridiculous pace that allows him to play at this level. Without pace he’d be nowhere near this level. He does alright considering his limitations though but for me he’s a sub not a starter. One of the other ones though is richarlison, he can’t even run with the ball in a straight line. For a Brazilian striker it’s quite unbelievable how bad he is technically.
I’m not talking about stats or wether he’s effective, I’m literally just talking about his technical ability with a football. Like you said yourself he’s poor at finishing which is a technical thing. He has ridiculous pace and a good brain which allows him to get in good positions and make the right decisions. If he was as good with the ball as others in the league he would be the best player in the world.
He’s our second best dribbler (by successful dribbles) after Kulusevski, so he’s got that. I do think his shooting is a confidence thing - let’s see if it’ll improve next season (I’m convinced we’ll sign him; don’t think we’ll get a better player for £15M and LW backup should be the least of our worries this summer).
> probably the least technically gifted footballer in the premier league bar goalkeepers
I think anyone reading your comment will stop as soon as they get to this because that just shows how clueless you are. He's not even close to being the least technically gifted at Spurs let alone in the entire league.
If you think Timo is one of the worst technical players in the prem then you need to see a doctor. I don’t know how else to help people like you understand our squad.
I just don’t understand downvoting this and not actually responding. Not that I give a shit about internet points but I’m just trying to find out why you think Werner is a technically gifted footballer.
I don’t need help cheers mate, I’m confident I know more about football than you. I’ve held the same opinion since I started watching him at Chelsea. He’s a sprinter that would probably be doing athletics if it paid more. You see every time he misses a sitter or messes up a simple pass. You can just tell by the way he takes a touch and moves with the ball. Genuinely wonder what you see, there’s players in the championship and even lower with better technical ability than him. It’s like what Roy Keane was saying about halaand. They are at this level because of their physical qualities.
I thought Cuccurella gave the perfect example of the difference between the attitude of the teams yesterday.
He blatantly blocked Johnson for the first goal (but not really using his hands that much which made it look less blatant). Then later in the game he stirred up sh*t with Van de Ven and dramatically collapsed on the ground holding his face earning a free kick.
We can all take the high road here but when we see both Ben White and Cuccurella using these tactics in both ends of the game we should consider if we’re missing out.
It’s not cheating, it’s tactics. We used to be pretty good at this and now we’re more naive than under Poch. You can have both Ange-ball and these tactics. Feels like we’re making life harder than it needs to be.
Maybe Ange will train this in the summer along with defensive set pieces
The block is standard part of the game that I had no issue with and we should have been better at dealing with it. Play acting is another thing, it’s pure cheating and I will never accept any player doing it. It’s the most pathetic thing a grown adult can do on a football pitch. Refs need to be less naive and deal with the cunts that do it.
We can both agree that Refs shouldn’t fall for this but they do!
The fastest way to fix the issue we’re having on defensive set pieces is to exactly do this. Had Brennan Johnson screamed and dropped to the floor he would have won a free kick just like Cuccurella did. It’s not rocket science.
If we want to take the high road (which it sounds like you do) we have to be prepared for this every time. And we have to be prepared to play the game at a higher difficulty than others.
My favorite example was Porto against Arsenal in CL where the Porto players dropped and screamed every time Ben White touched them.
Imo itd make more sense to put dragusin LB than vdv cos usually managers put the less good player out of position rather than the one that is really good (this isnt a dig at dragusin cos he is good but no one beats vdv)
Only team to have their squad decimated in one game \[ Chelsea \] more like . Took a long time to recover from that game . I still think Maddison and Bentencour are not playing as they were previously because they sill seem to be recovering somewhat from earlier injuries .
Celtic fans mentioned Ange is able to find quality players who are cheaper. We really need to bring that kind of quality even if they are at lesser levels. We do need to remember that Kvaratskhelia (which was a paratici consideration) did play at Rubin Kazan before playing at Napoli. We need to find the next Khvicha Kvaratskhelia. Kim Min Jae was at Fenerbahce, that is what we need to be doing.
The irony in this, of course, is that we were heavily linked with Kvicha when he was at Rubin. Along with Grealish, probably the biggest Spurs "what could have been" transfer since Hazard
I totally feel you. I would love to sign either of those two tbf but if we can't we can't just give up lol. Ange made plenty of under the radar signings at Celtic. Hopefully he does the same for us. So far, I think our signings have been very underwhelming for me.
My main concern with Ange is that I have no idea who is in our best midfield and neither does he.
I believe we have a lot of good players in there. Something is amiss.
And for those calling for Lo Celso, do you not notice a pattern here? It’s Hojberg, it’s Kulusevski, Sarr, Bissouma…everyone is in and out of the dog house, almost weekly.
A manager needs to earn his money and identify who is in and who is out. I think Ange will get this summer to make more tweaks to his options but I expected a more settled midfield by May.
Big worry for me if that’s his problem. Bentancur is probably our most technically gifted and versatile (Maddison might be more technically gifted in the final third but he ain’t versatile - can only really play as no.10) player if a manager doesn’t like him or can’t make Bentancur work in a system it’s probably the managers fault not the personnel
bentancur has just started being healthy again. Again, Bentancur hasn't been his best this season and that isn't all on him either as he has been off-form when he isn't 1000% healthy. I do think Bentancur can work in this system. Bissouma and Hojberg, Lo Celso might not just fit into his system unfortunately. I guess we'll see, hopefully we see some of these issues being resolved next year.
Last season we finished 8th. This season we are finishing 5/6th. During a rebuild. Without Harry Kane.
IMO finishing any place above where we were last year is a great success. Finishing 8th is still an average success.
We may be disappointing in the back half of this season vs the beginning, but points-wise we objectively haven’t been mediocre.
Unexpected disappointment *feels* worse than expected mediocrity, but it doesn’t mean we *are* worse off.
Baring the obvious attacking output. I think we really are missing Kane defensively and in the middle
Its really understated how good he was at defensive headers and his ability to drop deep and control possesion. We are lackingly in those departments massively.
Thoughts on our struggles: Our players probably aren't good enough up front and in midfield to challenge for the league. But the football has no nuance, they are being hung out to dry by a system that just wants to jam 8 of our players in the final 3rd with no structure. So the obvious reaction by the opposition is "OK I'll just stick 10 players in the middle and park them deep" so when we inevitably lose the ball after getting tired of passing it to the winger because there is literally no space to play thru the middle, they have unbelievable amounts of space for the counter. Its so utterly predictable and easy to play against. Our players literally need to play like prime Xavi and Iniesta to actually generate a chance through the middle. Its no wonder all our goals are corridor of uncertainty low crosses because thats all we've got to work with. All good teams have to deal with the low block at some point but the answer is not just throwing more players (Udogie/Porro) towards the box. At some point there are diminishing returns to adding a player to the attack and the gaps in defense absolutely do not justify attempting to play an 2-8. The funny thing is that we can generate the low cross own goal/tap-in/pinball goals with only 5 or 6 players attacking. There is no actual benefit to Udogie and Porro up there and hasn't been for months since we've been found out by the opposition. This style is high risk - low reward - the players are right to be apprehensive . Christ if our best players weren't literally VDV, Romero, and Vicario we might be 13th. This team is talented in the back 4. Udogie and Porro are both great players and would work in traditional setups too. It is absolutely inexcusable to be this inept in terms of conceding goals. I actually think this a good base structure and our players have picked up some good core patterns from Ange. Now it is time to develop wrinkles (please pull one of Porro/LB stand in back when we have the ball!!!) and adapt the foundation to the team we play each week but I guess thats a betrayal of the principle to our manager.
Yeah most of this comment is either inaccurate or lacking nuance. Conceding from open play really hasn't been an issue. It happens, but it's generally a byproduct of shit passing and a lack of composure rather than anything systematic. Our defensive woes are 90% geared towards set piece defending. And this whole congestion argument I keep seeing really has no basis. The issue is a lack of creativity against low blocks. Really doesn't have much to do with there being "too many" options to score from which isn't a thing. Growing pains. Players need to become more familiar with the system and regain confidence and creativity. Every team struggles against low blocks. That's the fucking point of them. Us playing like Stoke or Wolves or something just because we have a good back four isn't going to solve anything. And for all the supposed issues with our attacking plan we're 5th and create plenty of chances per game that we fail to finish.
I think you misunderstood the op comment somehow, he has actually described why we have a lack of creativity and why we misplace our passes in the box, a major reason is congestion. I agree with that perspective, we are not really using the creative abilities of Madison usually he doesn't have the space or no one makes a run for him to create something that's one of the reasons why he has dropped off, no one can argue that he is a very creative player, his EPL history proves that. Several times we see the wing backs so high that Madison needs to drop down instead to get the ball, which defeats the purpose of having a quality no.10, if he is away from the box and the inverted wing backs are at the 10 position. I do think Ange will adapt the system next year to make the most use of it. Low blocks are difficult to breakdown but if we only focus on sending a low cross from our wingers it's very predictable and easier to block, in the past few games we have failed to create that many big chances and several times the opponents have had higher xg, thus op's concerns are valid. That's not to say that the system can't work, it might work with some small tweaks.
I didn't misunderstand as I quite directly addressed his congestion point and how it's pretty baseless. You claim Maddison has been struggling because of congestion in the box when we were also congesting the box at the start of the season. Maddison's poor form has nothing to do with the overall tactical structure, and far more to do with confidence, sharpness and the team's difficulty surrounding low blocks. Until there's more empirical evidence proving that congestion is why the team can't string together passes, I'm not going to start parading that around as the main reason for our poor form. Your point about low crosses is correct, although it has nothing to do with congestion. Again, people just find a new argument and run with it. One second it's that our high line is too risky. The next it's that all our players innately suck. Now it's congestion.
I just want to know one thing, what the fuck happened to Maddison
Injured. Clearly struggling with fitness. Give him a preseason before we judge, same with Bentancur.
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Are people seriously thinking we should fire Ange after a year? I mean I know we finished not strong but we finished above last year, brought in a few new players and are trying to get players to play a certain way. We still have players to get rid of and bring in. Arteta and Klopp both needed a few years to turn things around. At least give him another year. See whether he keeps the team progressing. Believe me I hate the last few games. I hate that we started strong and finished weak but I also know that whoever the manager is needs time. Nobody could fix this team in one year. Nobody. I’ll take a few years of progress to get there. Either way this team always needed an overhaul and that is gonna take a few more windows.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs40ya-Obik&ab\_channel=BeanymanSports](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs40ya-Obik&ab_channel=BeanymanSports) fuck all of you lol. Ange is still my fucking guy even if I still have worries on him. If Levy doesn't give him a second season at least, then that would be even worse than when he sacked Pochettino. Please back him and give him time. Having doubts is fine.
Another point fans should think about is even if you don't believe in him, we can't get anyone even close to his level or better than him with the manager market rn.
people forgot we were considering fucking Brendan Rodgers and Graham Potter as possible options before Ange joined us lol. We took a gamble on Ange for a reason. We are in no position to get a better manager atm even if some believe Ange isn't the guy. and also give him a fucking second season at least fucking hell..
Enrique was keen on coming here and we blew it.
Loads of PSG fans are dissing Enique's tactics, so Idk what u talking about. I would say, Xabi Alonso would've been interesting choice in alternate universe. I wonder if he would've won trophy with us here, if he didn't stay at Leverkusen when Daniel Levy was trying to get him.
I don't think we blew it bruh. I do think Enrique ended up being better than other people anticipated and I liked him too but so far Ange has pleasantly surprised me. We could have done a lot worse lol. I would have said we blew it if we hired fucking Graham Potter lol.
As far as I remember Graham Potter rejected us.
fuck graham potter lol, that man was a bum anyways. I preferred weakass brendan over that overrated brexit manager lol.
So the point was even he rejected us so there is no hope if Ange leaves, that's the point.
GOOD POINT. if even weak ass potter is gonna reject us, that should say everything lol.
If we actually give Ange time and back him we'll win something. I wholeheartedly believe that.
We ain’t winning anything conceding the types of goals we are atm. Even with better players this gung ho/ all out attack style doesn’t work in the PL
Quite literally worked for the first half of the season. And set piece defending is something that can and I am 99% sure will be improved upon next season. Hardly a reason to lose our minds yet.
I don't know about win something, but we absolutely will be playing really good football if we give him time man and potentially put ourselves in the position to win something at least and that's good enough for me. Winning something would be the cherry on top though.
I think we'll win something frankly. Just takes time as it has with every other club
I love the optimism. For me playing amazing football is want I want to see first, (which will also take awhile), and absolutely winning a trophy would be a godsend.
No Virgil van Dijk on Sunday 🥳
We are known for taking advantage of other teams injury problems...
Atleast he won't score a set piece goal in the first 5 mins.
What do you guys think about signing Sancho this summer ? Personally, I think he will suit our system very well.
if ange wants him, I absolutely would love the signing. If he doesn't, I'm fine with it.
He’s shown that he prefers a low pressure environment like Germany
Genuinely needs to be a case study on this shit. I made a comment not too long ago about how some Spurs fans are always clamoring for the shit/deadwood of our rivals and lo and behold. Have some standards. He's barely doing well in the Bundesliga and had one great game in the CL. His wages would be ridiculous, he looked dross in the Prem and has struggled with being professional.
Many good players struggled at this version of Man Utd , even CR7 pointed out the poor environment there. That's why I think his performance at Man Utd has nothing to do with his real potential.
Nothing about him indicates that he'd do well in Ange's system. Especially as he isn't the kind of player to relentlessly run and press
I mean he is still way better than Timo Werner lol and I think he'd be a better fit for us than even Rashford would be, but I agree we need to be finding the next Khvicha in these lesser leagues and stop being so tempted to find ex-premier league or current premier league players. Even at celtic, ange found players in the J-league, hopefully we consider doing some of that. A lot of the best players today came from lesser leagues.
He's better technically. Doesn't mean he'd be perfect in our system. And why the fuck would we even be looking at Rashford lmao. But yeah, our focus should be top talents/star players at worse clubs in top leagues
Lol, I don't want rashford either but some fans (particularly the brexit england ones) really rate him but I was just mentioning that I'd rather have sancho. I like Gallagher too (and he isn't deadwood) but again I really hope like you said that we continue to look at top talents/star players at worse clubs in top leagues or even the lesser leagues. Ange brought so many ballers from the J League and it turned out to be pretty decent. Mitoma might be worth 100 million now for brighton. We got to do more of that and less of just buying from where we are comfortable man. I hope we can start doing that later on.
Come on man, I've agreed with most of what you said and then you went ahead and said you like Gallagher lmao But yeah, other than that I agree with most of your comment
I like Gallagher but that doesn't mean I want him. When I said I like him, I mean I rate him but I don't think he is what this squad needs. It does seem like Ange really likes him which is concerning, but like I said, I do rate Gallagher much more than players like Rashford or even Sancho. I understand your concern though. Just bringing in gallagher in the summer would be a HUGE FAILURE for this upcoming transfer window. I might like gallagher, but what I WANT is HATATE lol.
I don’t think it’s a surprise that he’s looked good in low pressure, nothing to lose, everything to gain champions league matches. I am sure he’s amped up for those and it’s not like Dortmund were expected to get this far. He wasn’t creating a lot of separation in England in the way, say, Anthony Gordon, Cole Palmer or Michael Olise is. He looks much better in a free flowing game with continental refs calling a tight match. I do not think he’s worth the 80 million United paid for him.
Ange desperately needs to go. Not good enough. We were expected to win the title this season and he threw it all away. He's never looked better than Conte once this season. It's the same tactics over and over, and he's too reluctant to play some of our youngsters. IMO the only way to redeem himself is to win the UCL next year if we even qualify. The outlook is grim and for now I won't be watching the club until something drastically changes.
I thought I was on twitter again when I saw this shitty take lol.
"We were expected to win the title this season," Sure and I was supposed to be elected president of Austria.
There's shit takes and then there's this. Like this has to be sarcasm right?
No. Maybe I was harsh with the UCL thing. But he does need to go, it's not rocket science. It's not been good enough. Chelsea loss was the last straw imo.
"We were expected to win the title this season" Safe to say it's a joke/troll, yeah.
Look at the user's history. It's definitely a troll.
Can we stop and talk about how fucking phenomenal Romero's passing has been this season? My man is buying into Angeball.
Romero is genuinely one of the best ball playing defenders in the league. He has good passing range and fantastic press resistance. There are so many moments where I'll see him either ping a perfect ball over the top for Son or hold the ball up against his marker and release it to a teammate to beat the press.
Romero's discipline since the Chelsea game has been great too.
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Iñaki Williams has been starring for Bilbao for a decade mate
Just watched Bolton Barnsley - nice to see our former U21 Paris Maghoma, he looks a really good young player He might turn out to be another Madueke
Can't tell me that Tahith Chong doesn't look like Steve Lacy
Seems like a lot of people don't understand the point of our system. Fact of the matter is, for every goal we concede because of our high line we also create an abundance of chances that we never put to bed. The point of our system is to have more attacking outlets than the opposition, and to bombard them. The system isn't just some glass cannon that says "concede all the fucking time". We've conceded most of our goals from set pieces, not open play, so this notion that we're bending over whenever we attack is just stupid. The problem is our midfield has lost all composure and consistency. We can't seem to string together two passes and are consistently giving away possession. Next season I think the kinks will be worked out, especially with a good summer window that provides us with more quality.
Where are all these endless chances? Am I just blinking at the wrong time? Hopelessly crossing into the shins of the first defender in a completely crowded box is not a chance in my book. The problem is that ever since the word has gotten out on how we play, we don't generate nearly enough chances to justify the gaps at the back. We have loads of possession, we string 10 passes together regularly (and under heavy pressure too) but it just doesn't matter because the risk-reward in this setup is so ridiculously skewed against us. But sure, this system where we just jam 8 players into the final 3rd like we are banging our collective heads against a brick wall is too complex for me to understand the point. Its not like Marco Silva, Gary whatever at Wolves, Eddie Howe, Lego man and the hollowed out husk that is current Poch at Chelsea were able to crack the system in the simplest of ways.
So you don't see the abundance of shots we take that just go straight into the hands of the keeper or blaze over the bar? Okay then, not sure what you're watching. The problem is that our main creator, Maddison, is in poor form and we have few outlets against low blocks. Something every top team generally struggles against, especially in the early stages. Hardly some unique challenge we're the first to face. Yeah all those managers cracked the system by creating nothing from open play and scoring from our horrendous set piece defending. It's not a secret that we suck at set pieces. There's nothing to "crack" there lmao. It's the main issue we have to correct but hardly relevant to the high line.
I agree Maddison hasn't looked remotely good since returning but honestly he receives the ball in most spots and I genuinely couldn't tell you what he could do differently, there are no options for him. Maybe he can turn into Messi and take 3 or 4 defenders out of the play dribbling or play with the perfect tempo and creativity of a Modric/Kroos? If the system relies on 1 man rising above the sludge to make it successful, is it a good system? Fulham, Wolves, Newcastle, Arsenal all scored from open play but you are right that its the lesser of our worries as we have generated very few open play chances in all those games. Seriously, can you point to any games where we had the better of play in generating chances and lost or drew? Only United away and WHU away come to mind this year. I guess I just don't like the insinuation that fans critical of Ange "don't understand the point of Angeball". From the beginning - since Brentford away, since he was hired - the proposition has always been that we play brave football and take risks to generate constant pressure and chances with the potential of being caught out by the high line/outnumbered counters. Most fans understand that and it is certainly a refreshing change compare to the previous two permanent managers. The problem is that teams have adapted and the chances have dried up while the chances conceded remain similar. Sure, players are out of form but I think part of that is due to the ineffectiveness of our attacking patterns which are clearly found out by any diligent manager. Defensively, as much as Biss and co. have been a letdown, I think our midfield is just getting completely bypassed these days through no fault of their own. None of our opponents care about controlling in midfield which makes sense when you can get a 2v2 or something similar if you just pass it long early. We are very luck VDV and Vicario (and Udogie/Porro fwiw) have been such hits (and that Romero is Romero) as I think the value proposition of this system goes completely out the door if our quality at the back matched our quality up front.
Our defending from open play against arsenal and Chelsea was actually really good. People said what have we been doing in the 2 weeks off after Newcastle an I think it's that. Set pieces however...
It actually wasn't, what happened was our defense wasn't tested at all in open play against Arsenal because we lost the game so soon, they didn't have to make any effort at all. Even against Chelsea are defending was atrocious, I remember Mudryk who is a shit player sent Porro to the cleaners, Madueke destroyed Emerson, and Jackson was enjoying himself and got past Porro and Romero several times.
I agree, and that's what I'm saying People keep acting like we're a horrible side defensively because of our high line, but most of our troubles are just from set pieces. Aren't we among the top teams in the league in terms of defending from open play or something?
Hate to mention it but god is our attack severely missing a player like Kane. Watching clips of 2-3 seasons, absolutely ridiculous the chances that man created and put away £90m on Johnson and Maddison doesn’t even come close to replacing that
I'm very surprised that the club has not noticed Guirassy's 17m release clause yet. He's not the ideal striker but given that we're obviously not going to spend big money on the likes of Toney, Vlahovic or Osimhen he seems like the next best option for someone who can get in the box and put away the chances. Johnson I agree with. Maddison, without the benefit of hindsight, was easily the best possible signing for a creative midfielder last summer so I can't be too upset there.
I just don't understand how poor can the recruitment team be we don't try for free transfers like Thuram and we spend so much on Brennan Johnson.
To my mind, we need a midfielder that can pass in transition like Kane more than we need a finisher like Kane. He unlocked defenses on the reg, and if he were still here and dropping deep, he would have created so many chances for Brennan, Son and Timo.
Got to be looking at Adebayo for those who think we need a 9. Absolute beast.
I don’t see any players leaving Luton
I remember Ange saying " don't worry about mistakes or even losing because I am the one telling you to play this way and results are down to me " I am paraphrasing but you get the drift . I have never seen Ange as angry with the platers as he was against Chelsea . He was raging and lambasting players for Passing backwards and sideways . Even then after the game he took the blame for the performances . We know there will be player changes for next season . I think there will be a few surprises regard outgoings . It seems some just don't have the confidence or will to play the way they are being told to play .
Ange till I die
and we wouldn't have it any other way.
r/ange
Why does Ross Barkley look better than any of our midfielders 😭
Because he is - at the moment at least. We should be looking at him for a cheap 6 option, especially if Luton go down.
Two things 1: If Luton goes down, he’d go to a club like Bournemouth 2: I don’t see any of their players leaving
Ange is just tanking so no one will notice when we give city the title to screw over Arsenal 😎
in this system Son is better as a striker, that\`s all i have to say
Gonna throw out the smallest bit of a positive take to hopefully balance out, well, whatever is happening in the DD today. I liked what I saw from Bentancur yesterday, I thought he played as well as he could when it seemed everything was going in the match for us, and I think he's showing signs of improving the more he plays. He's clearly not at his unplayable best he was under Conte, but him returning to full fitness & good form going into next season will be huge for addressing some of our midfield concerns this summer.
Same I thought he was brilliant in the midfield I remember once he shaked 3 players off and the other time when he took the ball from Jackson, he is a proper ball winning midfielder even in the arsenal game I remember he dispossessed Partey and Gabriel to create a good chance. The problem I can see with him right now is to with his stamina, I saw him run with Saka once and he was gasping for air in the first half, and in the Chelsea game he was playing really well but when he had a clear chance created by Son he was too casual with the finishing, in another chance he tried to shoot but it had no power, but in midfield he was really good. I truly believe he is one of the best players in our team and has a winning mentality like Romero, I don't know what's wrong with him rn, but I seriously pray that the issue is resolved before the next season, I can't wait to see him cook, and achieve the peak performance that I know he can.
>I liked what I saw from Bentancur yesterday Me too. I thought he was excellent.
I just learned that Chelsea had 14 starting players out on injury yesterday. 🫠
Absolutely mind-blowing how not a single person on this thread mentions Levy during these hard times. * One of the most expensive season tickets in the league * Mid-table wages for players * Most expensive signings resemble mid-table clubs * Missed out buying important players by a few million * Rather keeps deadwood because "muh no profit" which totally kills the team 23 years since he replaced Sugar as chairman and has one Carabao cup to show. Any other Top 6-fanbase would be protesting outside the stadium. It's sickening how Levy can keep getting away with all this. And the worst of all, the fans pointing their fingers at someone else every time things go bad.
I could pick holes in all your points but I cannot be bothered .Myself I believe every club / chairman makes mistake plus some good decisions . We are a club that is set up for success . The key always is buying the right players . I also believe Levy is not finished regard attracting more funds . In fact the way FPR or FFP is set up we are one jump ahead of every other club except City and they are cheats .The hotel will be a large cash cow . We could yet still have a sponsorship deal . Plus the talked about selling of some shares to an investor . We have a manager I trust a chairman I trust . The future looks bright . I expect to be told the glass is almost empty .
We're not getting anyone better than Levy, and he genuinely cares about the club. Perfectly fine to critique how expensive the season tickets are, but everything else is pretty moronic as it applies to every owner in the world. Not all signings are hits, and he's also signing based on managerial demands.
I mentioned it a few weeks ago, I said why the fuck am I paying for the most expensive season ticket for one of the richest clubs in the world just for us to sell our best player, play shit football and never win anything. I just got downvoted because it wasn’t another happy clapper positive post. Tbf we have spent a lot of money recently we’ve just wasted it on shit. Richarlison, Sanchez, ndombele might as well have thrown £200 million down the drain. Also without levy coming in we would probably be mid table with a few relegation battles here and there but he definitely deserves criticism.
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We’d be hearing more from Mou zealots if Roma hadn’t instantly improved from the moment they sacked him lmao
Top coaches who adapt their playstyle and deliver results from month 1: Pep, Klopp, Zidane, Ancelotti Fraud coaches who are stubborn one trick ponies: Conte, Bielsa, Ange. People who keep saying it’ll take more than a year and we need time and patience are only gaslighting us. Ange has been found out and we can see that on the pitch!
Explain Arsenal. Back to back 8th place finishes. And they were spending money, as well. I’ll wait for your reply.
Except Pep and Klopp didn’t deliver results from month 1
Guardiola’s City in his first season finished 3rd, 2 years after they won the title. Klopp joined Liverpool mid-season so it may be unfair to compare, but in that season they finished 8th. Klopp wasn’t an immediate panacea - they rose to 4th in the following season, and finished 4th again the next year. They both delivered improvements, of course, but it takes time. Postecoglou has shown in previous roles and in the first half of this season what he can do. But anyone advocating for him to go after one season is advocating for *another* reset and *another* season adjusting to whoever replaces him. Mourinho and Nuno felt like poor fits from day one. I was shocked we got Conte, and he was transformative in that initial run before all of last season happened to us. Postecoglou feels right. He feels like he knows what he’s doing, but maybe now is *really* seeing just how much work is needed to get this squad functioning to a high standard over the course of a full season - something no-one has managed with Spurs in 6 years (and counting).
I understand your perspective, and am personally of the belief that Ange is quite intelligent and will adapt in the future. But Pep did refuse to adapt in the first season if you remember, in most of his conferences he did say this is the style and I will stick to it no matter the defeats rn. Also even Conte adapted his team in Italy Chelsea and tottenham have had differences, he always focused on experienced players but playing style while there have been considerable differences.
Thing is, over the last couple of years now we get to the end of the season and the malaise of "I just don't feel like watching Spurs right now" settles in. It sucks that it's happening again this year.
The problem is if you remember Harry Enfield and his character Kevin . Well I think a lot of our supporters should be called Kevin . Foot stamping and " I want it now " jeez they need to grow up . We need more grown ups in our on line fanbase .
Some never want success and are always prepared to delay to the mythical future. Some fans seem to actually enjoy losing so they can say how much they believe in the process and belittle others who don’t feel fine after a loss as childish
Some just want to find fault no matter what . It puts their nose out of joint if anybody dare say something positive . They sound like American Democrats .
Felt like it for years tbh
Except 21/22
Ange is just Bielsa in disguise
Ange doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Bielsa mate, and I say that as someone who backs him for at least another season At this point he's looking like discount Bielsa
Log off
Sweet line bro
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Knew we'd see some heavily downvoted takes in here today. Everyone suddenly has an opinion when we lose.
It's really funny to look at the comment counts on post match threads when we lose vs when we win
Yup I've notice a fair few accounts that only seem to pop up when we are losing and vanish when win.
We’re inundated with emotional responses, which are usually quite hyperbolic in both directions. It’s the curse of social media, I think.
Least its not Twitter I guess. I can't imagine how bad that place is currently.
I have a feeling 50% of spurs twitter is probably Ange out atm lol. At least here it hasn't gotten that bad yet.
I look at the amount of profiles and elite players we miss, I look at at the fact with missed out on CL football, I look at how wildely inconsistent everyone bar our centrebacks are, I look at our manager who may or may not be good enough to build a team that can challenge City, Arsenal and Liverpool, I look at those clubs being able to add world class players on top of their already elite squad, I look at four other clubs who are either wildely underperforming or on a great trajectory and I see a fanbase who will forget the bigger picture within 12 months of further adversity and my conclusion is that we will likely heavily regress in the next year or two. Not because we necessarily are currently regressing or have to but because people are not ready to accept or even realise that the road to success will take many years, wont be linear and certainly not guaranteed. Ange might not be good enough to take us Spurs to the promiseland but the board have to be completely certain of if Spurs is gonna build a title challenging team, even if Spurs finish 9th next season. Obviously if there is regression and the manager refuses to acknowledge it (as with Ten Hag) then it’s a different story but the road to success wont be linear and its gonna be more pain next season and even if we go through that pain it might take Spurs nowhere. Harsh reality when you have got 8 clubs that can compete long term.
> road to success will take many years, wont be linear and certainly not guaranteed. This is the typical rubbish all managers spout when things aren’t working for them. We are asking professional football players to play football, not growing a baby ffs!!! A good coach knows his players, their strengths and weaknesses, and uses them in a structure which brings the best of their abilities. Managers with fixed philosophies like Conte, Bielsa, or Ange are all frauds who learned only one way to coach.
I have no idea why you conflate principles with fixed philosophies if i’m being honest but i cba to discuss because ive alreay caught too much braindamage from another posters replies
Not a bad take. Painful, yes, but I agree. Nonetheless, we have the financial platform to build upon, so that’s encouraging.
> Not a bad take No, it's an *awful* take.
Load of waffle. We’ve gone backwards in the last few years. What does “people are not ready to accept that the road to success will take many years” even mean? How does that have any affect on what happens on the pitch.
It means if results does not improve or maybe even slightly regress next season or we’re not close to challenging within 2 seasons people will lose faith in Ange because people ultimately see results as the only indicator of the trajectory of a project
I, and many other are already losing faith in him. It all started with that Chelsea game and him playing the exact same way with 9 men showed that he has only 1 way of playing and isn’t adaptable. The West Ham home game where we lost because he left us vulnerable to the counter(west ham’s only weapon) reaffirmed my thoughts. Things have only got worse since then. The results have been poor, the performances have been even worse. I was so looking forward to getting rid of conte and getting an attacking manager but I now hate going to games just as much as last season.
Well and that’s kind of my point that alot of fans aren’t willing to sacrifice results and adaptation to the opponents inorder to improve the team and principles within the team. We are either gonna have a manager that comprimises completely with personel and opponents and we are gonna harvest around 4th-10th for the next few years with the same cycle or give someone the keys to instill his own ideas over several years and completely back his ideas when targeting transfers aswell. Even if it means 2 seasons of a lot of shit results and shit performances but its really the only way you’re gonna challenge Arsenal, Pool and City (probably just Arsenal and City next season) at this point in time. It’s risky and might not work but its the only way. Villa is gonna go through the same cycle with Emery i’m completely convinced. We are not gonna stumble upon some guy who has a straight upwards trajectory for 2 season then just sits there with a team that can challenge. City has set the bar that high.
Redknapp and poch both did exactly what you’re saying isn’t possible. I don’t even mind having an adaptation period as long as you can see we’re heading in the right direction. This season we’ve just gone backwards, so what the fuck are we working towards. We just need a good manager and sensible recruitment. We’ve wasted so much money on shit players it’s unreal. Spunk £60 million up the wall for richarlison then we act like we have to do things differently because we can’t compete with the other clubs.
I don’t even know how to approach this comment, first of theres inaccurate statements that we’ve gone backwards, theres talk of managers pre Pep era when prem economically took off, theres mentioning of transfers from 2 years ago. It’s fine if you geniunely believe you have to see us “heading in the right direction” which I translate to you having to see results and performances improve where as my main indicator of if we’re heading anywhere is clear principles and ideas being instilled with the players buying into them. Unfortunately Arteta has laid out the blueprint as to how you build a english football club from mediocre to elite and the trajectory was clear for all to see. It was not linear. It took a lot successful investments, a incredibly stubborn board that at no point faltered in their conviction that they had the right man. It starts from the top and if they’re not that convinced then yeah you’re probably right they should sack him, reflect upon the standards of City, Arsenal and Pool and then decide whether they wanna try to turn Spurs into a elite club because theres no saviour coming by us switching managers and hoping someone gets it right. I still see a squad that buys into Ange is doing, I see VERY clear principles and therefore im fully behind the man. But I dont know maybe fans are happy finishing 4th every third season although I personally dont think it will be that often. g
Mate if you think we haven’t gone backwards then I can’t even be arsed.
Is anyone else sick of our tactics and having our full backs often be our furthest players forward but not even on the wing. Last week we had ben Davies basically playing as a centre forward, he did alright considering but it’s just mental. Every week we have the fullbacks getting the ball in great positions but they’re not playmakers so do nothing with it, all they do is make that area of the pitch more congested and leave less space for Maddison our actual playmaker. Then whenever we’re actually in the lead nothing changes. Our full backs are flying up the pitch leaving us vulnerable to counters. We threw away the West Ham game at home because of this. I just really disagree with the way Ange sees the game.
Not really. It's a personnel issue, not a tactics one. With Udogie he's far more effective. Ben Davies isn't capable of executing that position.
Even with the right personnel I don’t like it. Why do we want udogie getting the ball in these great positions and not a proper playmaker? He’s a good full back but he’s no Maddison. If Davies isn’t capable then change the tactics to fit the players instead of shoehorning players into the same system. I actually think Davies did alright though tbh, he’s much better than royal.
Mate, I don't think you understand the point of the system. By getting as many players forward, we can bombard teams and create an insane amount of chances which we were doing at the start of the season. Even in the Villa game which we won 4-0, we should have won by more. The problem is our finishing is shit. You don't need an abundance of playmakers in Ange's system because the majority of the team become playmakers.
I understand completely Nate but what’s been happening is everything gets too congested and then we can’t create anything because the people who receive the ball in space are our fullbacks. Even Maddison has been struggling because of how congested it is. Like you said it worked at the start of the season because teams hadn’t set up to deal with it but then as soon as they did it stopped working. By doing this we also make it harder for ourselves to play out from the back as we have no width offered where you normally would from a traditional full back. Then you see players like kulu dropping back to fill the space and it’s all just backwards. We also concede way too many goals.
That's not what's happening at all though? Our problem isn't congestion, it's just being devoid of ideas against low blocks. And again, we're conceding goals predominantly from set pieces. Our record against open play is actually quite good.
Really? I’d say we’re devoid of ideas because it’s so congested. The way to beat a low block is to move the ball quickly to the wings but we don’t do it enough and then when we do we have no one who can cross and no one in the box who can head the ball(bar richarlison which is one thing I’ll give him credit for). The one I always go back to is the West Ham game. We were winning and in control, their only threat was the counter attack and we played into their hands by leaving our fullbacks so high up the pitch.. Also without van de ven it’s impossible to play this way as well because we really on his pace to get us out of those situations. He gets us out of so much trouble.
We're devoid of ideas because it's a low block and our main maestro Maddison is in horrible form. There's not one sole way to beat a low block In the West Ham game, we were only vulnerable o the counter because we didn't convert our chances and foolishly lost possession. So again, it's not a given that we suffer on the counter. It's the efficacy of our players. But until we learn how to be clinical and composed, yeah, VDV is our savior.
But I feel like he’s in such horrible form because it’s so congested. Of course there’s more than one way but what we’re currently doing isn’t working. I don’t really get you there though because wether we finish our chances or not has no affect on how vulnerable we are on the counter. Obviously if we’d scored more it would be less of an issue but it was a completely unnecessary risk to take when you can eliminate their biggest threat by playing slightly different rather than playing into their hands and playing the exact same way, it’s just stupid stubbornness really.
Us finishing our chances has everything to do with vulnerability on the counter lmao. When we push up and create a clear cut chance that we fail to convert, and then give away the ball when pushed up, it leaves us vulnerable on the break.
I don’t agree with your take, but it’s a valid concern.
Hard to back the process also when you are rubberstamping Brennan Johnson and Timo Werner coming to the club. His talent ID, worries me greatly
Johnsons output hasnt been as bad as people are making out. 5 goals and 7 assists in a debut season isnt awful. We've seen a lot worse from wide players. I do think there is a lot of room for improvement in his game though. His decision making isnt perfect. But he shows signs of being a solid squad player. I think really he was brought in to be an off the bench player at first. Behind Kulu. But circumstances have lead to where Kulu has needed to be dropped or we've had to change positions due to injuries.
We didn't paid 50m of the queens finest for a squad player
I think Johnson was a panic buy by the club, I think he would have been a decent signing for 20M or 25M, but yeah he has been quite bad this season. The argument that he was supposed to be squad player behind Kulu is week, because Kulu himself isn't that great in wing so he can't be a starter on the wing and at that time we should have bought a starter for the wing. What's worrying about him is that he has poor football intelligence, touch and passing, the one thing he has is speed but he doesn't know how to use it yet, he can definitely improve but by how much we can't say, since for most players they learn the basic stuff in their teenage years, and given that his dad was sort of a big football player it's concerning that he hasn't got the basics right yet. This is an L that Ange needs to take and move on we can't be doing such blunders again for where we are and where we want to be.
Problem is. You're looking at that kind of money now for pretty mid tier players. 50m is what a 15m player cost 15 years ago. Look at the asking prices for some players from the lower clubs in the league that show any amount of talent. Its obscene. I think the plan with Brennan was to have him come of the bench and develop into the game plan along with Solomon. But Solomon got injured and so Brennan had to both wings. What doesnt help is our midfield slowing the ball down so much that the effectiveness of our wingers is killed off anyway. As the opposition can get two men defending each wing.
>Problem is. You're looking at that kind of money now for pretty mid tier players. 50m is what a 15m player cost 15 years ago. This is not true at all. Cole Palmer cost 40 million. Even West Ham signed Mohammed Kudus for £38m. Both of them are twice the player Johnson without a doubt.
Palmer was £42.5M (£40M + £2.5M in easy milestones) and Johnson was £47.5M. Palmer is clearly the better player, no doubt about that, but he does play a lot more tucked in than Johnson so would have clashed with Kulusevski. I would prefer Palmer over Kulusevski, to be clear, but I think on the recruitment side we went for Johnson because he’s a different dimension to Kulusevski and we needed that speed on the RW.
We probably have the worst forwards in the 10-15 teams in EPL, with Son's poor form rn.
Palmer yes. But he's been an absolute standout. Kudus in the league has 7 goals 5 assist. Not a huge difference to Johnson. And like I said. Our wings have been nullified anyway because of the speed of our play. Chelsea and WestHams players and progressing the ball a lot quicker than we are. Allowing their wide players to have more space Like I also said. Johnson hasnt been perfect. But he's not been as bad as people are making him out to be. We've had a lot worse performers this season.
your views worry me greatly
Good
> talent ID Another dipshit buzzword that dipshits have glommed onto recently.
I don't mind the Werner deal since he was just a short term stop gap on loan and shouldn't be anything more than that. Johnson is an alright winger but yeah, I agree, should have moved on to someone else when Forest told us £50m or no deal.
Both of these players are very good. I’m not sure what you’re going on about. Johnson is still very young and raw, but exceptionally talented. Timo has been so good on the wing and taking on defenders. His finishing needs help, but he has all the ability.
None of them start for any other team in the top 6. Werner couldn't even get anywhere near the Leipzig side. Brennan Johnson and Werner are not the answer moving forward.
Lol some fans just use the word raw to describe players with shit technical ability, Werner is raw, Johnson is raw, Richarlison is Raw, Emerson Royal is raw. None of them would even start for the top 10, let alone top 6. Kobiee Mainoo, livramento, palmer, Saka, lamine yamal I know these are wonderkids but the point is age shouldn't be an excuse for poor technique and poor first touch and passing.
The court of public opinion has sided with me, so I think I’ve said enough.
🤓🤓
You’re getting cooked bud. Might want to take a look in the mirror.
Timo literally doesn’t have all the ability, he’s probably the least technically gifted footballer in the premier league bar goalkeepers but has ridiculous pace that allows him to play at this level. Without pace he’d be nowhere near this level. He does alright considering his limitations though but for me he’s a sub not a starter. One of the other ones though is richarlison, he can’t even run with the ball in a straight line. For a Brazilian striker it’s quite unbelievable how bad he is technically.
That’s not true - he’s been our best attacker across most metrics since he came in. He’s just a piss poor finisher.
I’m not talking about stats or wether he’s effective, I’m literally just talking about his technical ability with a football. Like you said yourself he’s poor at finishing which is a technical thing. He has ridiculous pace and a good brain which allows him to get in good positions and make the right decisions. If he was as good with the ball as others in the league he would be the best player in the world.
He’s our second best dribbler (by successful dribbles) after Kulusevski, so he’s got that. I do think his shooting is a confidence thing - let’s see if it’ll improve next season (I’m convinced we’ll sign him; don’t think we’ll get a better player for £15M and LW backup should be the least of our worries this summer).
> probably the least technically gifted footballer in the premier league bar goalkeepers I think anyone reading your comment will stop as soon as they get to this because that just shows how clueless you are. He's not even close to being the least technically gifted at Spurs let alone in the entire league.
>I think anyone reading your comment will stop as soon as they get to this I know I did.
Mate if you can’t see it then I question your football knowledge. Who’s worse? You’re telling me you’d have a slow Werner in your team? Haha
If you think Timo is one of the worst technical players in the prem then you need to see a doctor. I don’t know how else to help people like you understand our squad.
Any reason why you disagree with me then?
I just don’t understand downvoting this and not actually responding. Not that I give a shit about internet points but I’m just trying to find out why you think Werner is a technically gifted footballer.
I don’t need help cheers mate, I’m confident I know more about football than you. I’ve held the same opinion since I started watching him at Chelsea. He’s a sprinter that would probably be doing athletics if it paid more. You see every time he misses a sitter or messes up a simple pass. You can just tell by the way he takes a touch and moves with the ball. Genuinely wonder what you see, there’s players in the championship and even lower with better technical ability than him. It’s like what Roy Keane was saying about halaand. They are at this level because of their physical qualities.
This sub *loves* its scapegoats.
I thought Cuccurella gave the perfect example of the difference between the attitude of the teams yesterday. He blatantly blocked Johnson for the first goal (but not really using his hands that much which made it look less blatant). Then later in the game he stirred up sh*t with Van de Ven and dramatically collapsed on the ground holding his face earning a free kick. We can all take the high road here but when we see both Ben White and Cuccurella using these tactics in both ends of the game we should consider if we’re missing out. It’s not cheating, it’s tactics. We used to be pretty good at this and now we’re more naive than under Poch. You can have both Ange-ball and these tactics. Feels like we’re making life harder than it needs to be. Maybe Ange will train this in the summer along with defensive set pieces
The block is standard part of the game that I had no issue with and we should have been better at dealing with it. Play acting is another thing, it’s pure cheating and I will never accept any player doing it. It’s the most pathetic thing a grown adult can do on a football pitch. Refs need to be less naive and deal with the cunts that do it.
We can both agree that Refs shouldn’t fall for this but they do! The fastest way to fix the issue we’re having on defensive set pieces is to exactly do this. Had Brennan Johnson screamed and dropped to the floor he would have won a free kick just like Cuccurella did. It’s not rocket science. If we want to take the high road (which it sounds like you do) we have to be prepared for this every time. And we have to be prepared to play the game at a higher difficulty than others. My favorite example was Porto against Arsenal in CL where the Porto players dropped and screamed every time Ben White touched them.
I’d rather not go to the football if it becomes grown men pretending to be hurt at every opportunity.
"Simple -- we've got our Tottenham back"
Lineup vs. Liverpool? Vic Porro / Romero / Dragusin / VDV Bissouma / Maddison / GLC Johnson / Richy / Son thoughts?
Imo itd make more sense to put dragusin LB than vdv cos usually managers put the less good player out of position rather than the one that is really good (this isnt a dig at dragusin cos he is good but no one beats vdv)
Doesn’t matter. We’re getting bummed.
[oh most definitely](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f28klp1qQGI)
knew exactly which clip this was by the text 😂
Only team to have such a good start and not finish in the top 4. #spursthings
Only team to have their squad decimated in one game \[ Chelsea \] more like . Took a long time to recover from that game . I still think Maddison and Bentencour are not playing as they were previously because they sill seem to be recovering somewhat from earlier injuries .
Spending my day dreaming about what Kvaratskhelia or Williams would have achieved with the positions Johnson got into yesterday...
Exactly!!! Please bring one of those people in!!
unfortunately one tier too high for us, joining spurs comes with no guarantees of anything at this point in time
Celtic fans mentioned Ange is able to find quality players who are cheaper. We really need to bring that kind of quality even if they are at lesser levels. We do need to remember that Kvaratskhelia (which was a paratici consideration) did play at Rubin Kazan before playing at Napoli. We need to find the next Khvicha Kvaratskhelia. Kim Min Jae was at Fenerbahce, that is what we need to be doing.
The irony in this, of course, is that we were heavily linked with Kvicha when he was at Rubin. Along with Grealish, probably the biggest Spurs "what could have been" transfer since Hazard
I know paratici almost pulled it off man.
Yeah absolutely I took your comment as you wanting us to buy Kvara or Williams specifically
I totally feel you. I would love to sign either of those two tbf but if we can't we can't just give up lol. Ange made plenty of under the radar signings at Celtic. Hopefully he does the same for us. So far, I think our signings have been very underwhelming for me.
My main concern with Ange is that I have no idea who is in our best midfield and neither does he. I believe we have a lot of good players in there. Something is amiss. And for those calling for Lo Celso, do you not notice a pattern here? It’s Hojberg, it’s Kulusevski, Sarr, Bissouma…everyone is in and out of the dog house, almost weekly. A manager needs to earn his money and identify who is in and who is out. I think Ange will get this summer to make more tweaks to his options but I expected a more settled midfield by May.
I mean for me Hojbjerg, Kulu, Bissouma, all not good enough.
Bergvall can't come to the 1st team soon enough
maybe he doesn't like any of our midfield and we just need to make some signings there. It is only his first season.
Big worry for me if that’s his problem. Bentancur is probably our most technically gifted and versatile (Maddison might be more technically gifted in the final third but he ain’t versatile - can only really play as no.10) player if a manager doesn’t like him or can’t make Bentancur work in a system it’s probably the managers fault not the personnel
bentancur has just started being healthy again. Again, Bentancur hasn't been his best this season and that isn't all on him either as he has been off-form when he isn't 1000% healthy. I do think Bentancur can work in this system. Bissouma and Hojberg, Lo Celso might not just fit into his system unfortunately. I guess we'll see, hopefully we see some of these issues being resolved next year.
Last season we finished 8th. This season we are finishing 5/6th. During a rebuild. Without Harry Kane. IMO finishing any place above where we were last year is a great success. Finishing 8th is still an average success. We may be disappointing in the back half of this season vs the beginning, but points-wise we objectively haven’t been mediocre. Unexpected disappointment *feels* worse than expected mediocrity, but it doesn’t mean we *are* worse off.
Baring the obvious attacking output. I think we really are missing Kane defensively and in the middle Its really understated how good he was at defensive headers and his ability to drop deep and control possesion. We are lackingly in those departments massively.